Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Seagoon on July 22, 2007, 11:34:37 PM
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Today was definitely not the easiest Lord's Day I've had.
Saturday was busy but gratifying, we'd been planning a Rummage sale for several weeks to raise money for our building fund (we've run out of space in our current location) and with God's blessings and the hard work of many of our members, the sale raised $1100 for the fund. I'd planned to take the rest of the day off, but just as the sale was ending, I received a call that a battered woman was asking to see a Pastor, and spent the rest of the day helping her. Still not a bad day at all.
The Lord's Day was a different kettle of fish entirely. During our morning service at about 11:45 the church and my car were burglarized. Specifically, a man pretending to be interested in worshipping at the church came into the church office and took the zippered bag containing the deposit from last week and all the money that was made during the Rummage Sale we had the day before (about $1100 in cash), then he went out to the parking lot and broke the window to my truck and stole my wife's handbag, and then attempted unsuccessfully to break the window to the another family's mini-van which set off their alarm and alerted us to what was going on. He then took off pursued by our landlord who saw him attempt to break the second window, and being a good old boy grabbed his gun and jumped in his pick-up to pursue him. Our local police force however, responded to his 911 call by asking him who he was, why he was calling, why he was chasing someone, etc. and made no attempt to match him up with a cruiser. Eventually since the bad guy was doing more than 80mph he gave up. The license plate turned out to be a fake so the guy got away scot-free.
(http://www.providencepca.com/photos/brokenwindow.jpg)
Our Session and Deacons met this evening to review options for increasing security at the church and this is what we have decided:
1) We will be installing an additional security camera to cover the front office area and possibly the parking lot of the church.
2) Every Sunday, one of the men will be assigned to the cry room. Whenever the door chime sounds he will go and greet any latecomers and if they are not regular church attenders, he will ensure that they either go into the worship service or leave. In between that time he will keep an eye on the monitor for the security camera.
3) From now on all deposits will be made on the same day they are received. We will have to pay an additional charge for this service, but it is worth it not to have any money on the premises.
If you have any security suggestions from your own experience, we would be grateful to hear them.
I will be going to see the Fayetteville police tomorrow to share with them some of our concerns regarding their response. Apart from not helping with the chase, after our own 911 call, they took 30 minutes to arrive on scene. The officer who responded never got out of his patrol car, even though the parking lot was clearly full of concerned church-goers. Even after we reported that $1100 dollars was stolen from the building, he never attempted to enter the premises and other than taking down a report no police work was done. This is despite the fact that there were two witnesses, we had a description of the man and the car, and he must have left prints on two vehicles and the church door and office. We could have done everything that was done via a phone report. I'm not sure if this is SOP but it's lousy community relations work.
In any event we are praying for the individual who robbed us, both that he would be apprehended that he might not continue doing this, and that he would be converted so that he would be both forgiven and never desire this again. Also, several of our families have husbands who have been deployed for many months and a couple of the wives were shaken by the event.
I won't lie and say this isn't a disappointment, and an expensive inconvenience, but I can honestly say we are at peace about it, and grateful to God for many things, not the least of which is that ours was the only car that was burglarized (if any car had to be, that is honestly what we would have asked for), and that no one was injured. Our only real worry at this point is the identity theft issue as my wife's ID and checks were stolen.
Ultimately all that was lost is a little of the dust of the world, which will ultimately do the person who took it far more harm than good. This evening I went to visit a retired Air Force Officers wife who is dying in the hospital and it further helped to put things in eternal perspective, although my heart breaks at how much suffering she is going through and how hard it is to see a husband watching his wife in so much pain, there is an end coming soon to that, and then she will be in that place of which it is written: "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
To tell the truth, I can't wait for that myself.
Ok, Seagoon's tough day ramble over....
- SEAGOON
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Wow tuff day!
Good luck with everything. Must be a reason the Lord doesnt want you to build whatever it is you were planning quite yet. His will.
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Sounds like an eventful day Seagoon. Hate to hear about the losses and the break-ins. I don't have much to give you in the way of advice, it seems you are proceeding in the right direction, but I do wish you to know I am praying for you and your congregation.
Mark
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Sorry to hear about that Seagoon. Sounds like typical rural law enforcement. They write tickets and search cars for dope. Other than that they are'nt much good. One thing struck me odd, if your bank charges you to make deposits, you need to switch banks.
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Thanks for the condolences guys.
RPM, The extra charge is to make deposits on Sundays via their drop. Our treasurer had established a normal account where you make your deposits during bank hours.
- SEAGOON
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That's pretty unusual. We make deposits 7 days a week with no extra charges. Most banks will provide you a locking drop bag to put in the night deposit. You keep the only keys and open it for them on your next visit.
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Hello again RPM,
The treasurer informed me it would cost more to change the account to one with a night drop and to tell the truth, I didn't question that. I've just checked the RBCCentura website however and it does indeed say that if we get the Business 150 account it includes "Disposable night drop service". I'll talk to him about it tomorrow - thanks for the heads-up.
Well off to bed.
- SEAGOON
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I'll be praying for you Seagoon.
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is your lot gated? sounds like it's not. It would be unwelcoming to have to do that but we have done so at several churches here that have gone through frighteningly similar occurances. the thing is that a semi decent access control system will set you back $15k or so for a typical installation.
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That is a terrible loss, and I shall pray for you and the congregation, and the robber. The saddest part is that events like this are far more common now than 50 years past. In the general area around here, we've had a couple of churches burnt down. As for the "work" of the police force, you need to complain to the DA about that. That should be a crime in itself. You should also vote for a better sheriff, if he lets his troopers do that. As for in the short term, next time the cops don't do the work, do it yourself. Collecting fingerprints is fairly easy, simply get some dust, such as ashes or finely crushed charcoal, and sprinkle it on the prints, or in the general area. Blow that off, and what's left should be on the fingerprint. Simply put some scotch tape over that, put the tape on a piece of clean paper, and you have a preserved fingerprint. Also flour works well, just be sure to put the tape on a dark paper.
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Sorry to hear that SG, hopefully things will come right in the end.
Wurzel
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Sorry to hear this Seagoon. Maybe its a good thing that the guy never did catch the burglar, because in the end that day could have had an even worse outcome. After all it was just money and property that was lost, and not a life. The former can be replaced by abit of work, but the latter can not.
Even if im no fan of religion or churches, i think its really sad that a church would need any security at all. It should be able to stay open and unlocked all day and night without this kind of crap.
Hope he is found and thrown in jail.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Sorry to hear this Seagoon. Maybe its a good thing that the guy never did catch the burglar, because in the end that day could have had an even worse outcome. After all it was just money and property that was lost, and not a life. The former can be replaced by abit of work, but the latter can not.
Amen to that.
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It may have ended badly for the robber, as the guy chasing him had a gun. Still don't see why he didn't just shoot out the tire on the robber's vehicle.... but, what happened, happened. No use crying over spilt milk. Let's hope it all straightens itself out in the long run.
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He's probably going to get zapped :D
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> Seagoon
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
The money taken will somehow be made up, and used for the right purpose. Good people have a way of making that happen.
It's great to be security concious, but not paranoid...the next raggedy, disheveled, individual to walk in just might be an angel....who knows.
Just a prediction.
My prayers are with you.
68ROX
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Seagoon,
where can I send the check? Is the address on the WWW a good one to use, and to who so I make it out to and whos attn do I send it?
I can't send much but I will try and help.
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Hello All,
Just wanted to stop by quickly to say thanks again for the kind words. The Air Force officer's wife I mentioned, Marge Legg, died last night at 3:00 AM so I will be going over to the Legg's in a little while. I'm also going to be talking to the local newspaper - hopefully if someone knows someone who suddenly had a lot of money on Sunday afternoon they might be willing to turn him in if they know its a church - generally people are appalled by the idea that someone would rob a church and steal the Pastor's wife's purse to boot. I'll also post a link to the sermon that morning when I have it, along with the time where you can hear the window being hit and the alarm going off (after which every soldier in the place stood up and piled into the parking lot - I think I mention that on the tape as well).
The congregation has a great attitude about it though, for instance the Rummage sale itself was thought up and run by an SF medic's wife despite the fact that her husband is deployed to Afghanistan, she is pregnant, and she has a special needs child. After all her hard work (as well as that of everyone else who volunteered) all the money was stolen probably to pay for drugs and yet she mentioned that she was grateful we'd had time to fellowship, to get to know people in the community, and to share the light of the gospel. As I said to my wife last year, "these people deserve a better Pastor than me."
Anyway, I covet prayer more than anything else, but our contact info is:
Providence PCA Church
2801 Ramsey St.
Fayetteville, NC 28301
(910) 630-1215
- SEAGOON
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I sent the story to Fox News, the Raleigh News & Observer, and the Charlotte Observer...
Let us know if you get called by them.
68ROX
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Sad to hear about your Sunday. I've recently had property stolen from my truck and a couple windows in my wife’s minivan shot out. I was surprised at the emotions I felt for what I know is just worldly material possessions that don't mean much in the long run. It's hard to not feel hatred for the thief and to realize that what they really need are our prayers and pity because they are hurting themselves much more than they are hurting us. I'm sure much of your congregation will be struggling with this for some time.
I do hope you will keep an eye on your new "guard" at the door. It would be a shame for someone who is searching for something greater than themselves to be intimidated at the door and turn away. Even if nothing is said, human intuition can pick up on hostile suspicion.
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I've often wondered about pressing conspiracy charges in situations like this. The police refused to respond to the situation, therefor are conspiring to steal that money. It might not be successful, but the police department might consider changing how it does its business when 2-5 officers are being held on conspiracy charges.
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Sorry to hear about it, Seagoon, that's a pretty dang crummy thing to do. Best of luck finding resolution to this.
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Sucks man. We had a rash of break-ins at the Church back in '05, but the perps were making a habit of it, (not just the Church I attend, but others in the area) to the point that even the police were able to discern a pattern. Once they were caught, it was over and done. But we were hit more than once. I want to say there were three separate incidents.
-Sik
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Bummer Seagoon. Maybe something good will come from it.
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Sorry to hear, Andy. Having been burglarized 3 times :rolleyes:, I know the feeling. Your extra security sounds good. The local police department has the same operating procedure. All 3 times they didn't do a thing but file a "report" and giving us a case number, after which we would hear nothing else. Around here you have to call the county police to get a timely response.
Best of luck to the future.
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Hi Guys,
Just a quick follow-up, I'll have something more this evening. The local paper ran a story on the events which was surprisingly accurate (the Observer has a reputation for "fact gaps"): http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=268111
We did not get contacted by any other media, although local newsradio also picked up the story and we've gotten a few sympathy calls.
- SEAGOON
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Seagoon maybe with some media exposure the police will get pressured to investigate crimes like this.
It isn't just in Fayetteville that police act like this though. One of my wifes uncles stopped at a lumber yard on the way home from work a number of years ago. He was inside less than 10 minutes, when he came out, the back of his truck had been broken into and $4000 worth of tools were gone.
The policeman that came out told him that there was nothing that could be done because the crime happened on private property. (This one just boggles my mind, by this reasoning the vast majority of crimes can't be prosecuted/investigated because they happen on private property) The officer wouldn't even file a report on it, my wifes uncle had to go to the police station the next day to file a report just so he could collect the insurance on the tools.
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Hi All,
Unless we actually hear something about the thief himself (there is an outside possibility we might be able to get video of him as he tried to use my wife’s credit cards at a gas station and convenience store) this will be my last update on this.
Some good has already come from the local media exposure, in that the Sheriff’s office heard about it and contacted the City PD about a case with a similar M.O. they had. I’ve also had some calls from other churches offering advice about security and have gotten to meet some other pastors in town, the congregation has also been strengthened by the experience, and it has done a lot to teach some lessons about man’s depravity and the value and permanence of money. Also as one person pointed out, its good we learned we need greater security via the loss of money rather than a child.
I did talk to the community relations officer at the Fayetteville PD and he has indicated that the responding officer is receiving counseling on how to interact with crime victims, including rule #1 – get out of your car and rule #2 – act like you care and will do something about it.
Speaking of robbing the church, as I was writing this we had a guy do a walk-up asking for “money to catch a bus to visit a sick relative” – this is canned scam scenario #4 from the grifter’s manual of methods to extract money from churches. Unfortunately, the church office admin. heard his story and gave him some of his own money before I could stop him (and he doesn't have money to burn). After the guy walked out using suitably cliched Christian expressions, I said to the admin “Go watch to see if he goes to the bus stop” (it's at the end of our property) sure enough he came back in with a glum expression. “Ok, well I guess I won’t be doing that again…”
I think I'm going to be glad when this week is done...
BTW - the audio of the sermon I was preaching at the time including the car alarm and my dumb comments when most of the guys were getting up to go check out what was going on (the guys in the back heard the glass being hit) is available here:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sermonid=72507112311
or here for the direct link to just the audio:
http://media02.sa-media.com/sermons017/72507112311.mp3
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I thought when people got too far way, that was what the trigger was for?