Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Phil on July 24, 2007, 10:50:13 PM
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Been playing the game for approx 1 year.
Never at one time ever seen numbers in that arena ... Why ?
Would love to be in there fighting real situations.
What I mean is when I'm up in a Spit, I would expect to fight a German plane....(Europeen theatre)
If I go up in a Corsair F4U, I would confront a Jap plane....(Pacific Theatre)
I find it not so interesting when I'm up in a P51 and minutes later I'm enaged with another P51....
Why is that arena never occupied ?
Does it take one individual to recruit players in other arenas and initiate a battle scenario in the A.V.A ?
Any input anyone ?
Phil
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i would be there ASAP if there was enough people..this game is filled will people who hate realism and rather fight p51d's to p51'ds
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i would be there ASAP if there was enough people
It's amazing how many people say this. It's said time and time again.
Yet, if those people Went in, there Would be enough people.
Hmmm..go figure :)
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There aren't enough LA'7s, Niki's, and spixteens. The scores don't count towards the MA. You might have to fight 1v1 due to the lower numbers. There isn't any reason to milkrun, and the Maps are different.
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Darn score board ...
Darn BORING milk runs....
Darn CHEAP victories when an adversary is shot down because beiing outnumbered 10 to 1....
I will admit that I am not playing much in LATE arenas for the above reasons.
I've been playing mostly in EARLY and MID war.
Yes I agree, I fly and come back "cold" guns sometimes BUT when I scrap, I get a good fight WIN or LOSE.
Then I try the late arenas. Wow ! I get 5 kills and more ! Many of them are cheap no sweat kills ! Why ? Poor guy was outnumbered ! The poor guy was a NEW player because he wanted to jump in an arena where there is 300 players !
I believe if you really want to learn to dogfight, challenge one plane ! Then go ahead jump in when there is 2 and then 3 adversaries... You will often find this in Early and Mid....
Groups / Squads are split up everywhere because of scores and ranks.
Everyone needs to do their "milkrun" because they want to LOWER their scores... Unfortunately there's a cost !
TEAMPLAY tends to detoriate !
Saying this with respect.
Everyone is free to do what they wish for their $$.00
Just my opinion !
Salute
Phil
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The AvA used to have it's own crowd of regulars, and if you didn't mind the small pond/ big fish attitude of some of that group, you could really have some fun. The Karelia setup, imo, was a great deal of fun, as well as being an absolutely gorgeous map.
However, nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd, and as ROC hinted, someone has to get that first crowd established. It remains empty simply because no one wants to log in first and wait. I'm as guilty of that as anyone, so I'm not criticizing or anything, just saying.
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In my opinion I like AvA alot, the fights are better there and it takes more finesse and skill rather than uber rides. If you want to learn ACM and not just take an LA7 and ho everything this arena is the place to learn.
:aok
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Originally posted by DaddyAck
In my opinion I like AvA alot, the fights are better there and it takes more finesse and skill rather than uber rides. If you want to learn ACM and not just take an LA7 and ho everything this arena is the place to learn.
:aok
Agreed. I think the biggest problem is the guys that like this setup are often those with the least amount of time to play. Its a catch 22, I'd be there if the numbers were there, but I don't have time to wait around for numbers to build.
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We've tried to get numbers in there to generate the crowd, but it quickly degrades into an MA style HO fest.
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Yeah, I hate when it degenerates like that. :mad:
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What would be fun if it ever could be arranged was if one big squad "challenged" or invited another big squad to meet in AvA for some fun and they could both bring as many walk-ons from outside the squad as they could find.
Set a time and date and then take it from there. When people then log on and see alot of others in the AvA they may also pop in and the ball is rolling. Im sure there are enough large squads that would be interested in having some fun in AvA. After an hour or so they could switch sides and start over.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
What would be fun if it ever could be arranged was if one big squad "challenged" or invited another big squad to meet in AvA for some fun and they could both bring as many walk-ons from outside the squad as they could find.
Set a time and date and then take it from there. When people then log on and see alot of others in the AvA they may also pop in and the ball is rolling. Im sure there are enough large squads that would be interested in having some fun in AvA. After an hour or so they could switch sides and start over.
I agree...talk to Rattfink because this is something that we(the VF-31) enjoy. I can't fly FSO, but would love to battle in an historic(kinda) situation. I'm sure something could get worked out. It would be fun.
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if there are four players in the AvA and two of them aren't axer and dextur you will have some good fights most of the time, unless you are a novice. if it's axer and dextur on they will be playing for score or never leave the ack and that gets old. if you run across players such as constel, 1duke1, maha, avaro, platano, truekill, N7, Tbarone, slash27 or oldman you are in for a fight. if the squads are playing you will not land kills unless you run.
the maps in the AvA are a nice change from the MAs.
what I like about it is if I hear an allied engine I know I need to manuever now so it adds an additional element to the SA equation while at the same time reducing pile-it workload. your hearing is an important sense in the AvA and you have much better immersion in the game.
I like not fighting a spit in a pony and such I like allied vs axis, even with four players on.
the thing is if you go in there and it's basically a 2v2 and you aren't good you will scamper to the safety of the MA because chances are extremely good you will have your head handed to you with very little effort on the part of the handee.
The AvA, where the elite meet, dextur and axer not withstanding.
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I pop in there now & again I have found what few are there are not the same cut as the main arena's almost no 200 bs except for good kill when you shoot some one down :huh no ho's:huh . Also those few who are in there almost fly no other arena's. So when your tail is handed to you by some one you have never heard of don't be surprised. Because they will do it to you time time again. Big thumbs up for the arena :aok Would be nice to see more people in there only if they can behave like those for the most part I have come across.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
What would be fun if it ever could be arranged was if one big squad "challenged" or invited another big squad to meet in AvA for some fun and they could both bring as many walk-ons from outside the squad as they could find.
We have had a few squadrons do this over the past few months, generally with great success. Why not see what you can organize?
- oldman
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Theres a bunch of reasons. Heres some I can think of.
People get stuck on one plane as a primary and never want to use anything else.
People find it harder when matched against people in same era plane types.
Generally empty so they head to the MA
There isnt a big audience for those who crave attention.
Unlike the MA there are fewer who care to listen to the crap on 200 so they are usually pounced on early to nip it in the bud.
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I would be there a lot more often if there was anyone to fight.
The best plan would probably be set a day of the week as AvA day as mentioned above.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
We have had a few squadrons do this over the past few months, generally with great success. Why not see what you can organize?
- oldman
Ill throw the bone to my CO and see if he is interested.
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
I would be there a lot more often if there was anyone to fight.
The best plan would probably be set a day of the week as AvA day as mentioned above.
Tuesday/Thursday nights (Eastern time) seem to be good ones to try.
Nilsen, how about getting a bunch of your (European?) squadmates in there some night, I guess I could gather some of us Finns to play with/against your squad? We already have good experiences in having had some missions with Biggles in there.. :)
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Not many in the RAF squad are euros, but sure.. ill check and see who is interested :)
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Nilsen, your mailbox is full.
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Should be empty now stampf
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It would be interesting to get a few larger squads to spend an evening in the AvA! As someone mentioned above.
I bet I could rally some numbers. hmmmmm interesting.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Should be empty now stampf
Odd...still getting "user mailbox full" message (?)
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Originally posted by GooseAW
It would be interesting to get a few larger squads to spend an evening in the AvA! As someone mentioned above.
I bet I could rally some numbers. hmmmmm interesting.
Like Panzzer said, tues and thurs nights have been the traditional nights for AvA action. But if you guys make it sunday afternoons more power to you. Just pick a day and enjoy.
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Originally posted by Stampf
Odd...still getting "user mailbox full" message (?)
Ive had this problem before. Ive gone all the way back to the beginning and deleted everything in it but still people get that message. I cant go back any further.
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Clear your "Sent" as well. Dunno why, but Ive had a full Sent box and 3 Inbox messages, got the Full Box message.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Ill throw the bone to my CO and see if he is interested.
Ditto
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Originally posted by ROC
Clear your "Sent" as well. Dunno why, but Ive had a full Sent box and 3 Inbox messages, got the Full Box message.
rgr, ty
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Guys !
Thanks for the responce ~!~~
Please send me an e-mail and I will have a few pilots.
A day or two in advance should be good enough notice !!!
PM me please !
Tks
Phil
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Ive posted the idea in our squad forum to see if there is any interest. Holiday times here (for me anyways) so to get anything setup would not be an option for a couple of weeks or so.
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Alot of great sticks in the AvA. Some of the best air to air to be found. Haven't been there in almost two years now. Began AcesHigh, found myself in the Training Arena and was lucky enough to meet a gentlemen with the call sign of S2F (Sugar). He set me up in VF15 Satan's Playmates, and I was on my way! Great guys,...Alpha81, Brentlo, Brenjen, Indiana, Zoo, Stitch and Gooch, Griz and his dad Viper,...and many more. Learned alot quick...but...there I was flying my 190 in a US fighter group.
Couple months later, branched out with the only other LW enthusiast in VF15, formed a Squad and hit the skies...almost.
Of course we were drawn to the AvA. That was what we were all about. So in we jumped! Oh boy...not good. Here we were, a gaggle of noob, vultchin, hoing, ganging dweebs...LMAO...and just to make it perfect, we named our squad I/JG54...out of total ignorance of the existing unit! What could have been worse. My gawd we were Storch's worst nightmare and he sure did let us have it.
So...a couple years later, alot of lessons learned, and good experiences grown from...Why an empty AvA?
A couple of thoughts: Someone noted that when the arena fills up, the game play degrades to MA style play. I am sure it does. That is only natural and a forgone conclusion. The secret is to make that Not such a bad thing. Yes, Stress things like Good Fights, Allowing the enemy to up, etc..etc..All the good things in there now, but also...welcome some bombers or something, move away from the elitist 1 v 1 attitude. People go DA for that. I'm certainly not advocating Base capture, map resets, or any of that stuff, just maybe some OBJECTIVES, would open up the game play a bit. I wouldn't mind shooting down Lancs over the channel once in awhile.
Things like that might help. No need to flame me, just opinions.
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stampf you are not a nightmare, you're not in my thoughts at all. perhaps your style of gameplay has changed but I kind of doubt it. what bothers me and probably most folks in the AvA were the four of you getting in line abrest to HO, vutching and hiding in the ack. other than that you are ok I guess.
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i came up with the idea with a few 71st squadies before and i think they got a few in..... the problem for me is when its prime, i can never be on due to time difference and GF ack
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Yup, so either weekends or a euro AvA and a US AvA "meet" may be easyer on all.
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HMMMM, have to admit haven't thought about that arena in months. But now that I've seen this post, it does sound interesting for some things. Flew in there some and had great fun with some really good people.
If anyone comes up with an idea for something, let me know. If something can be coordinated, I probably could get our squad to come on in for some excitement. Hard part is, once the numbers start to show, then you will have quite a few walkins. That would be fine, but wouldn't want it to turn into an MA style thing.
With a few squads, it would definitely be more fun doing squads vs squads war game type stuff than the open MA stuff. I have heard from some other squads interested in possible dueling scenerio, this imho would be more interesting.
Contact AKDogg or myself throught our web sight, either email directly or through our forums arena.
http://www.arabian-knights.org
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I miss Filths old Buff runs, other than that its just a pointless, ack hugging furball whenever I check it.
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My problem is similar to the rest of you. I'd love to do some AvA action... but my playing time is very limited and if no one is there, I can't really jsutify sitting in there waiting on others to show up.
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Holy Lazerus! Thread almost a month old. :noid
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AvA had good numbers last night ! :D
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I would also like to see more people in the Axis vs Alies. It would be cool but every time I log on there are only 2 or 3 people in it if that, and I ain't going to jump in and spend the next three hours hopin someone else will follow suit. It would be a lot more realistic, then maybe we could have a little weather factor and some real clouds.
As for points not counting toward the MA, why would anyone really care that much, it's a frigging game, you don't gain anything in real life off your AH score unless this is your one and only chance for recognition, and if it is quickly unplug your computer and get a life.
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Nothing will hone your dogfighting skills like the AvA. But you have to get used to losing alot. When I encounter a superior stick in the AvA my goal is not to win the dogfight but to stay alive the longest i can. eventually you live longer and longer then start winning a few. Its been the best training Ive ever had. Also, one benefits from flying the same plane over and over against the same adversary over and over. Really gives you a chance to learn the strengths and weaknesses of a couple of types.
The AvA is underrated by far. I intend to spend more time there once september rolls around.
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When I started flying in AH, I was excited about the AvA arena. Sounded like a great time, no HO's or vulching and less bs on 200. But, sadly a lot of the time I have been in there it seems like you don't even need a map. It turns into a fight between 2 fields. Don't fly with a wingman or you will get accused of gangbangin. Also, ask permission to get into a fight before you engage. Then you go cold merge and get HO'd by someone. The idea is great and maybe some of the regulars respect the good fight but other times it seems like you end up listening to lectures about when you can and cannot engage, or getting chewed out because you have a wingman. It could be a great arena. Seems to me that a lot of the regulars don't want new players. I have seen some people in there often that appear to enjoy deriding the new faces.
I'll keep popping in. I guess it depends on who is there. I have flow a lot of nights in the early or mid war and there was less HO's then I have run into in the AvA.
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Originally posted by 1cajun
When I started flying in AH, I was excited about the AvA arena. Sounded like a great time, no HO's or vulching and less bs on 200. But, sadly a lot of the time I have been in there it seems like you don't even need a map. It turns into a fight between 2 fields. Don't fly with a wingman or you will get accused of gangbangin. Also, ask permission to get into a fight before you engage. Then you go cold merge and get HO'd by someone. The idea is great and maybe some of the regulars respect the good fight but other times it seems like you end up listening to lectures about when you can and cannot engage, or getting chewed out because you have a wingman. It could be a great arena. Seems to me that a lot of the regulars don't want new players. I have seen some people in there often that appear to enjoy deriding the new faces.
I'll keep popping in. I guess it depends on who is there. I have flow a lot of nights in the early or mid war and there was less HO's then I have run into in the AvA.
What good is an arena if it is no different than the other arenas? There are several MAs to choose from. Why have an AvA if it is not going to be a litle different?
I ve seen way too many excuses for acting like a dweeb. Wingman tacktics, flying the right way, helping, bla bla bla. Do it if that is what you want. But please don't get offended when someone tells you that that is what you are doing.
And BTW, why do cherry pickers, vulchers, etc get offended when they are called that? Its their $15 and they use it the way they want. They will tell you that and at the same time get offended when you tell them they are doing that :rofl
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Originally posted by 1cajun
When I started flying in AH, I was excited about the AvA arena. Sounded like a great time, no HO's or vulching and less bs on 200. But, sadly a lot of the time I have been in there it seems like you don't even need a map. It turns into a fight between 2 fields. Don't fly with a wingman or you will get accused of gangbangin. Also, ask permission to get into a fight before you engage. Then you go cold merge and get HO'd by someone. The idea is great and maybe some of the regulars respect the good fight but other times it seems like you end up listening to lectures about when you can and cannot engage, or getting chewed out because you have a wingman. It could be a great arena. Seems to me that a lot of the regulars don't want new players. I have seen some people in there often that appear to enjoy deriding the new faces.
I'll keep popping in. I guess it depends on who is there. I have flow a lot of nights in the early or mid war and there was less HO's then I have run into in the AvA.
1Cajun,
I think the type of flying you're looking for can best be found in Special Events. Go here (http://ahevents.org) Friday Squad Ops, Scenarios, and Snap Shots, are outstanding. Give them a try. If it's a squad based event, try getting your squad involved. If you're not iin a squad give us in 880 NAS a shout, our website link is in my sig block.:aok
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Just to bandwagon onto what 1Cajun said:
I sort of like flying in AvA, but I find myself avoiding it mostly now. I had alot of great fights in there. I like the AvA because I enjoy the planeset restrictions, and I like using it as a way to fly planes I will likely never fly in the MA arenas (like a zero for example).
But I find myself avoiding it mostly or the things that 1Cajun brings up. Not the HO's so much- I always assume I'm gonna get HO'd on a merge and avoid it. But rather, the engagement restrictions. The last time I flew in there, there were 8 or so folks on, maybe 10, and the fight was really moving back and forth. So, inevitably, you'd end up with several fights that degenerated into a 1v4 or 4v1, and then when the shot down guys re-upped the folks that originally had the advantage would get shot down one by one until they were the ones outnumbered. This more or less kept happening.
Or, as folks streamed into the fight, you'd have two guys going one v one on the deck in between the two fields. The guy losing would ask for help, a friendly would dive in, and then the guy who had the advantage would complain about getting ganged or ruining their 1v1, etc.
Ultimately, I found myself more worried about engagement ettiquette than actually just flying and fighting. There's always plenty of whining on 200 in the MA, but I was surprised at how much whining there was on 200 in AvA.
Like Dedalos said, there are plenty of arenas where one can fly with really no restrictions on how you play except those you impose upon yourself. While I enjoy the idea of AvA, I find the artificial parameters we impose in the name of fairness makes the whole experience less enjoyable.
This is really a 180 from how I felt a few months ago. I feel like AvA is really fun up to about 6 people (based on my limited experience). At 6, it's easy to keep tabs on each other and keep the fights balanced. Once you get above that, it seems like the stringing out of folks from the fights leads to numbers imbalances, and then it just becomes harder for me to figure out what everyone's going to think is 'fair' than just get into the furball and start shooting folks down.
Anyway, that's just my two cents. Having said all that, though, I'll still keep popping into AvA sometimes. There's so much I like about AvA over the MA, like the cool terrains, the clouds, the short radar ranges and vis ranges, etc. I really wish the AvA was the MA, and the LW MA was the arena that was always empty.
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^^^^^Well said.
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Well put Toonces. You hit the nail on the head when you said that you end up spending more time worrying about the etiquette then combat tactics. I finally find a fight and wonder if I can engage or should I circle and watch?
Oh, and Dedalos, I have not once been called a vulcher, gangbanger or HO monkey. Not the way I fly, no matter what arena I am in.
Thanks Shifty, I fly with the 475th and enjoy the squad based events. I like the strategy, planning and tactical aspect of it.
I rarely get HO'd because I too avoid putting myself in that position. Usually if someone gets HO'd, he could have avoided it.
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I am CO of a decent size historic squad that came here from Warbirds about a year ago. We've been flying together since 97. Cajun is a squaddie of mine.
We fly in as many historic events as we can, snapshots, scrambles, and are very active in FSO. In other words, prime AvA candidates.
When we got here we were thrilled with the concept of the AvA. Went in there on a evening when there was a JG there and had some great battles, P38s vs 190s. Exchanged salutes & kudos on the boards the next day.
But a few more visits with other members of the arena populace present had different results which resulted in us pretty much withdrawing from AvA activity. A constant barrage of the usual 'cherry picker/vulture etc' made it unpleasant enough that being the new kids on the block, we left and pretty much didnt return.
Mind you, we were online 'vets', having flown together for years and used to this sort of thing - but being brand new to the AH community and not sure of the 'ettiquette' of this arena, we left. Imagine how any new player would react.
As stated here above, the AvA is different, and should be. Thats what makes it a great arena. But I feel ( based only on personal experience ) that any problem with attendance may not lie in any problem with the arena itself, its the attitude prevalent with some.
I find it to be very much a contradiction.
You have historic planesets, reflecting a particular period in time & a particular theatre.
Setting is a appropriate historic terrain.
Arena settings provide a more realistic atmosphere.
But the expectation is that engagements are to be treated more like duels than fights.
Shouldnt the idea behind a more 'historic' arena be to instill the urge to fly in a more historic style?
I challenge those reading this to site me a historic, documented WW2 combat incident where a pilot saw a friendly engaged in a 1 v 1 and didnt engage to help, but instead held off to see who won the 1v1 battle first!
"Blue 1 to Blue 2 - Bill, there's a Wildcat down there with a Zeke all over him!"
"Hold on Johnny, lets see if the Zeke gets him, then you go in...if he gets you then Im next"
Any pilot of any nationality who was engaged in a 1 v1 and suddenly saw 4 more enemy appear would attempt to bug out if at all possible. I dont recall Saburo Sakai fighting the squad of Hellcats he ran into one at a time. He was historically 'gangbanged'.
If you fly in a 'historic' arena and suddenly see yourself outnumbered, then fly in a historic fashion and turn tail and run! Dont anchor in a fight and expect others to spectate, and whine that you were 'gangbanged'. Part of flying in a realistic manner is caring about your & your friends virtual life, and knowing ( to quote the Kenny Rogers song ) 'when to hold em, and when to fold em'.
Part of the reason for those more difficult settings is to challenge your SA and make more decisions other than 'fly/kill/die/repeat'. Sometimes you mix it up and get a adrenaline rush just from landing safely. The fact that AvA is not tied up in AH scoring also is to instill a flying style outside the MA 'points at all costs' style.
I have a historic based squad, we fly the squad aircraft together whenever possible in a given setting, and try to fly truly as a group. This means wingpairs & mutual support. Not holding each others coats as someone goes 1 v1 or 2v2.
This mock kung fu movie, kick bellybutton one at a time idea of 'fairness' has somehow
evolved into a rules of engagement for many in the AvA.
My 2 cents.
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Originally posted by toonces3
Ultimately, I found myself more worried about engagement ettiquette than actually just flying and fighting. There's always plenty of whining on 200 in the MA, but I was surprised at how much whining there was on 200 in AvA.
It is really not that complicated. Dont HO at the merge and don't cherry pick. No one is stoping anyone from doing that if they enjoy it so mach and they need to do it in that arena for some reason. However, you may want to tune off 200 if you cherry pick and you dont like being called a cherry picker.
Most of the whines in there are from the people that did HO at the merge, or did ruin a good fight, or did bla bla bla. For some reason they dont like being called what they are :confused:
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I remember that that fight sav and it was a great one, you guys fly very well together. JG54 has pretty much vacated that arena because when we fly as a squad we get nothing but guff and then when I respond as I am known to and do so very well they cry foul.
my last foray into the arena generated two solid days of whines from staff members which I basically allowed to go unanswered. on the second day when I did respond one member went into a full blown teary eyed pity party.
the AvA is no place for a squad that plays well together.
it didn't used to be that way though.
however it is still the best place to find people who want to fight
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Well, I guess my point is that I'm trying to find that distinction between 'cherry picking' and grabbing alt and then diving in on a bandit from an engagement advantage.
I don't really have too many problems with folks complaining about me on 200, I'm not so good that I'm stealing everyone's kills and I usually end up the loser on any HO's.
But, the whole 'ruined someone's fight' part is what really bugs me. If there's 3 of us on, two of whom are down on the deck going in circles, it's easy enough to sit up high and watch the fight and, maybe, even ask if the guy down there needs some help.
It's another, though, when there's 6 or 8 guys on, and the area of engagement is moving around back and forth. You know what I'm talking about.
What you're describing, in my opinion, is what Salvan said; the AvA is like a private dueling arena more than a scenario-based/ planeset-based arena. In my opinion, the AvA should probably be 'just like the MA' but with historical planesets and settings. HO, vulch, whatever. I mean, if you just tell everyone to do whatever they want, then you can fly your style and not someone else's. I don't see much point in HO'ing someone when theres 4 of you in the arena. I mean, if you're not there to have a dogfight, then what's the point. Your score doesn't mean anything in AvA.
But, if we just accept that HO's are gonna happen and don't grief about it, then at least we can get over the HO vs. front quarter blurry distinction.
At any rate, I'm the new guy and haven't been around for years like some of the AvA regulars. I suppose after some time, I may get tired of the chaos of the MA and want something 'more', and maybe the AvA is the place. But I'm not there yet, and right now the AvA seems like the DA than an MA.
There's plusses and minuses to flying in the AvA. I pop in when I'm in the mood for that type of flight. But the original poster asked why the AvA is empty, and I'm someone that gave the AvA a pretty good try for a while and finally decided that the MA is more appropriate for me much of the time.
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Originally posted by storch
the AvA is no place for a squad that plays well together.
it didn't used to be that way though.
You mean like the good old days where 10 of you waited on one side waiting for a single con to come up and vulch them? Cut the BS storchypooh. If you dont like being called a cherrypickingvulchgangackhugg ing squad then dont do it. I have to say the JG54 that did not vacate the AvA does not do any of that. That was the good old days you miss :rofl
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I remember one night I climbed to 8k and someone asks on 200, "Who's the zero up on the stratosphere?"
I answered him, "I'm at 8k"
and he said something like, "That's way too high" and some other sarcastic stuff. This was someone who's name you'd recognize.
No big deal, but again, it's all part of that let's merge on the deck and have a 1v1 fight attitude. If all I want to do is duel on the deck, I have an arena other than the AvA to do that in as well.
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I present exhibit A above me in the deadlot post
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Originally posted by toonces3
I remember one night I climbed to 8k and someone asks on 200, "Who's the zero up on the stratosphere?"
I answered him, "I'm at 8k"
and he said something like, "That's way too high" and some other sarcastic stuff. This was someone who's name you'd recognize.
Toons, he was trying to help. No point in being at an alt that you wont find anyone or be to high to see the guys below. I'm sure the asumption was that you were looking for a fight.
Also, sometimes people try to be funny. No reason to get offended because he called it the stratosphere. You mean 200 in the MA is better?
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Originally posted by 475FG Savlan
Shouldnt the idea behind a more 'historic' arena be to instill the urge to fly in a more historic style?
A good question, probably at the heart, not only of AvA, but of AH2. Some view it as a simulation of WWII combat, while others view it as a sport. In AvA, where the numbers, even in the old Combat Theater days, were always a small fraction of the MAs, the differences between the two attitudes are just more vivid. In the MA, if you and three friendlies get bounced by 12 enemies, you might enjoy the fight a bit before you go down. In AvA, when you, alone, get bounced by three guys, the fight is quick, fatal and generally not a lot of fun (except for those rare talents like Eagler, Dedalos, Maha and a few others). Was it historical? Of course. Would you like to roll over and do it again? Probably not. But since the numbers are low to begin with, it's not like you can move to another corner of the map where the sides are more even. So, over time, people who fly regularly in the arena naturally enough try to even things out so that the combats are enjoyable from both sides.
Storch's point that the AvA is a poor place for squads to utilize squad tactics is only a part of the story. If there are reasonable numbers on the other side, squad tactics work fine. We've seen this over the past six months as squad leaders have arranged to fight other squads at a particular time. But a squad that dominates the arena with its numbers isn't much fun to fight against, nor do I imagine that its members feel hugely challenged by the opposition they encounter. The solution is to split the squad until other show up, then rejoin (there is no delay on changing sides in AvA).
I imagine that the most historic place to fly in AH2 is in the scenarios and other special events. For those day-to-day times in between, AvA is the closest you're going to get. No one can stop you from using historical tactics, but you really shouldn't be surprised that people will complain when they're being treated in a way that's basically unfair. Works in war, which isn't supposed to be fun, but it doesn't work well in a game, which is.
- oldman
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Originally posted by storch
my last foray into the arena generated two solid days of whines from staff members which I basically allowed to go unanswered. on the second day when I did respond one member went into a full blown teary eyed pity party.
Was that the day you ran from anything that resembled a heads up fight and then challenged me to a fight at the "dojo"?
Storch Kwan-do. Bow to your sensei!!!!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=K-XgpZbtSQA
At first I was a little taken back that I was about to be involved in a physical altercation and prepared to defend myself. Then I remembered you were just some fat guy sitting at a computer running your mouth over the internet.
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I love Historical settings...
Along tiem ago we had soem sort of russian setting..we had these column shaped clouds that went from about 5-7k to the deck..Great to fight around and in...
The last tiem i flew ..It sucked....
It was a pacfic setting........I was on the Japs side...
Flying a Zero..and some weenies in P-38s were scred as hell to fight ..wehn they did ..i broke them in half..so after that they woudl make one pass and run liek girls fro 10+ miles..thee was only 2 of them around...
It sucked flying a slow plane with UN- AGressive Allied pilots....
Thsi was due to 1) crappy pilots
2) Low numbers..no targtes = Boring
Thats why I am usually in a Typhoon in the MA..most weenies I can catch and they cant run away...half a squeeze on the trigger..next target please..
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I'm glad I replied to a thread that had moved to the third page. The topic of the thread was why are the numbers so low??? It is fairly obvious that the answer to that question is one that does not interest the regulars in AvA.
In Warbirds, some of the best fights I had and the funnest nights were in the WWII arena. More than a few of you know, but the WWII arena there is set up like AvA with historical planesets and so forth. It too turned into an empty arena for many of the same reasons.
One regular squad would climb up to 30k and cruise the whole map dropping their bombs. Another would fly in squad strength NOE to grab bases and bail.
AvA has the potential to become one of the most enjoyable arenas in the game. Please, read a little history on combat tactics, take some responsibility for your own SA and fly a smart fight. A lot of the regulars are great 1 v 1 pilots, I have been shot down by them. But, if a wing pair comes in or a squad shows up they lose their advantage, are no longer kings of the sandbox and the negative comments on 200 start.
I engaged in a 3 v 2 fight one night, myself making it 3 v 3. I got one, lost the other two guys on my side and somehow dispatched the last two. All of a sudden the comments started flying. Not one, nice fight . Nope. It was all, "That wasn't your fight, why did you jump in?"
Maybe the regulars should pick a quadrant in the NW corner and have their own private dueling arena and everyone else can treat it as a no fly zone then some of us who would really enjoy some historical action can get involved.
Bottom line is the numbers are low because the regulars like it that way.
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Originally posted by 1cajun
Maybe the regulars should pick a quadrant in the NW corner and have their own private dueling arena and everyone else can treat it as a no fly zone then some of us who would really enjoy some historical action can get involved.
Bottom line is the numbers are low because the regulars like it that way.
Maybe some of us focus too much on the 1 vs 1, true. But that is not the only reason reason the numbers are low by any means. The major reason is you can fly what you want when you want in the MAs.
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Originally posted by 1cajun
Bottom line is the numbers are low because the regulars like it that way.
Strong words from someone who hasn't shown his face in the arena at all this tour and for only 37 minutes last tour.
I don't think you know / care who the "regulars" really are. You simply have an axe to grind because someone acted poorly toward you, so you paint all who go there with a single broad brush.
Not sure why people who don't frequent the AvA seem to feel the need to denigrate it. If it isn't for you, fine, don't go there. But quit slandering it.
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Agreed. My comments are not made as personal attacks and I hope nobody has taken offense in any way. I am just an old guy who loves the historical aspect of the game and would like to see the arena become all that it could be.
I don't like the MA a lot of times. Especially when you find a good fight or a nice base defense or grab going on and get in some good fights only to have an La7 come screaming through picking at the fringes.
all :aok
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there you have one of the snivelling AvA commandos now. it's amazing that guy is on the staff.
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Unbelievable. :rolleyes:
I don't think I could have been any clearer in my above posts that
1. I like the arena.
2. The idea and set up is great and
3. I am not denegrating all of the regulars or attacking anyone.
I have no axe to grind with the arena or anyone in it. Not once have I acted disrespectful towards anyone when I was there and never have I put anything in the buffer except great fight.
The question was, "Why is the AvA always empty?" The answer to this can only be arrived at by careful examination and open discussion. Again, I would like to see this arena grow and become what it was meant to be. An arena with historical planesets that would provide for better gameplay for those who don't like the 50 v 50 matchups with uber rides.
If you have taken my comments personally or feel that I am talking about everyone in the arena or am just here to trash it then I apologize. That was not my intention.
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Originally posted by storch
there you have one of the snivelling AvA commandos now. it's amazing that guy is on the staff.
Dojo!!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pntB_Ct-sbA
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The ideal method for turning the AvA into a 24/7 historical matchup arena is for several squads to decide to become AvA regulars and go take over the place.
Basically, you need to run the "Rules of Engagement" crowd out of the place.
If there is a regular presence of historically minded squads flying and stealing all the toys then the duelists will leave and an historical setting can be implemented.
And here is a little Glossary............
Cherry Picker ----- US Navy calls this Loose Deuce
Alt Monkey------- I'm smart enough to climb higher than you
Vulcher-------------I'm too stupid to takeoff from a rear base
Fair Fight----------Oxymoron. If it is fair it aint a fight, its a dance.
And no, I dont fly in the AvA. Its too full of whiners when I go in there with my 7 wingmen and commit cherry picking, alt monkeying, vultching and unfair fighting.
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Originally posted by Gumbeau
The ideal method for turning the AvA into a 24/7 historical matchup arena is for several squads to decide to become AvA regulars and go take over the place.
Basically, you need to run the "Rules of Engagement" crowd out of the place.
Dude, you bring the people, we'll worry about whether we stay. You and your seven bodyguards are welcome any time.
- oldman
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people say they don't want to waste HOURS waiting on someone else to show up............
I will and do go into the AvsA and can not remember sitting / waiting past 7 or 8 minutes full with out 2 or 3 people popping in and seeing what is going on, then vala the fights startup.....
and this is at any time of the day......
there have been 5 good size squads I can think of in the CT/AvsA, and 2 of them started with JG..........1 started with VF
and someone posted somewhere about tripping over one's on ego regarding certian players/squads in the AvsA........
everything in life really is "what you make it" nothing more........
try to have an optimistic approach and relax and have fun.........
~S~
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
there have been 5 good size squads I can think of in the CT/AvsA, and 2 of them started with JG..........1 started with VF
~S~
2 started with VF:D
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Greetings,
AvA should post the unofficial, unwritten rules in the arena's MOTD so ppl know what to expect - rather than just getting into yelling at them.
For, example I dove in to help a countrymate to be told in no uncertain terms that I was 'picking' and unwelcome. Okay, fine. Climbed out, watched him die, landed and logged.
Later a squaddie asked me to got to the AvA. I did. Lifted a 110 and headed his way. Then I got a message that 5k was the 'ceiling' in AvA. Lovely, I pick the only BnZ plane in the mix and I am not supposed to BnZ, that would have been nice to know. I could have lifted an Echo....
I would like to visit a time period focused arena, but I don't understand why 'duelests' occupy that arena. If the pilots there want to duel, and it is their 15 dollars, why abuse those who are interested in the arena instead of moving on to the Dueling arena?
It will be a long time till I venture into the AvA arena again - cause I don't want or need to put up with the verbal crap.
Now, we may all return to our hand wringing on why the AvA is not used and no one plays there.
Regards,
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I think we're getting to the heart of the matter here.
The reason 'I' don't go to AvA as much as I'd like has to do with the artificial rules of engagement, even though at first I thought this was a good idea.
Other reasons are a lack of players, or the inability to fly the MA plane of choice, or varients of the 'dueling' attitude argument.
There's a segment of folks, like me I think, that like the idea of the AvA but with the ability to fight like in the MA, ie. flying in a group, attacking from an advantage, and forcing the enemy to fight your fight.
There's another group, in my opinion, that maybe sees the AvA as a sanctuary from the MA attitude. I can say that in every case I've been in the AvA the calibre of player has been way, way higher than the typical MA. I can get a 2+ K/D ratio in AvA, but struggle for something like 0.3 in the AvA. You need to bring your 'a' game in there for sure.
I think Oldman has a really valid point that gets lost in the noise, and it's in a gray area that only a fairly experienced player will appreciate. I like to win and get kills as much as the next guy. But, on the same note, if you're dominating the other team to the extent that they don't want to play, then you're ruining your own fun. If a group decides to vulch a field, on the one hand that should force the other team to move back a base- that 'should' be the point in the MA. On the other hand, if there's 10 folks on and 8 are killing 2, why in the world would the 2 stay?
We've all seen this. In the 348th FG, there have been quite a few times when we all logged in on different sides to even up the numbers. In fact, one of the most memorable nights was when I went several turns with a 109 in a F6F, only to find out after I threw a that I was fighting my squad mate Trotter, who is a far better stick than me. Or hunting MWL down in his 110. We don't feel any need to stick to squad/country lines when the AvA is unpopulated.
But then there was another night when a few were on, and the whining about picking and ganging was just out of hand.
I've heard at least one regular lament why we'd want the AvA to be like the MA. I can understand that. You play this game enough, I can imagine getting to the point where you just want to find a good fight without having to look over your shoulder the whole time. That fight TC posted could never happen in the MA, and I'm sure it was a treat to fly.
I don't know what the solution is, or if there is a solution. Again, all the gripes in the MA are solved in the AvA; you have large maps, generally good fights, equal uber-rides, etc... Why folks don't flock there confuses me. If you could get 100 guys in there a night, I probably wouldn't fly in any other arena.
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The reason folks don't go there is pretty simple.
The people who have gained control over the AvA want a very specific set of behaviors that doesn't appeal to very many people.
Anyone who behaves outside the set is encouraged to stay away.
I've always had the attitude that if I die flying online it is because I made a mistake.
The AvA 'grognards' have the attitude that death is caused by deviations from the rules of 'fair play'
I've seen this mindset before. The guys that want to duel but never want to face someone in the same aircraft type. What other reason can they have for so many 'rules' and NOT be in the Dueling Arena?
The supposed rules are all cover for various deficiencies.
Cherry Picking....... Like I said before the US Navy calls this Loose Deuce tactics. One guy makes the bandit predictable and his wingman comes unseen and kills him. I fly Loose Deuce all the time. It is extremely effective against bandits with poor SA. AvA outlaws poor SA by calling it 'Cherry Picking'.
No Head Ons.......It takes two to head on. If one guy is trying to avoid the HO it aint no HO no MO. I welcome guys trying to HO. It tells me immediately they have limited understanding of ACM. I know how to avoid and turn it to my advantage. In the AvA, they make rules agin it because they don't know how to defeat it.
Alt Monkey.......... Air Combat is a 3 dimensional world. It is difficult for many to effectively operate in all three dimensions. By creating a rule to limit altitude the third dimension is taken away, especially for later in the war. The fights all degenerate into low altitude circle jerks, easy on the SA and favoring the point and shoot style of flying.
Gang Bangin........ There is a reason they are called Air Forces. They are not an army of one. If you insist on flying on the deck and getting anchored you are going to see the rest of the home team show up to wipe the floor with you. You should have made a plan to escape other than yelling "Thats not fair". Savlan's example of a Martial Arts movie is great. You aren't Jet Li surrounded by 30 guys with swords who wait patiently so you can finish them off one by one. You get surrounded by 30 guys with swords, you are sushi.
When I came to AH I was hoping the AvA would a place where you could find historical flying, a place to re-create some of the classics from history. Instead I found a Dueling Arena with lots of rules and very little that encouraged teamwork or realistic tactics or flying styles.
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Originally posted by 1cajun
Especially when you find a good fight or a nice base defense or grab going on and get in some good fights only to have an La7 come screaming through picking at the fringes.
Well... I mean... You might not be in an La7 in AvA... But...
Isn't that pretty much the "historical tactics" you wanted?
Or, did you mean to say you only like being the attacker in such situations?
:huh
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I'm not an AvA regular, so take this for what it's worth, but...
Call me an elitist if you will, I prefer to know that when I log into the AvA, I'm going to have some good scraps with other like-minded souls who also appreciate a good scrap, and the worst gang-banging I'm going to have is, say, 2 *MAYBE* 3 to 1. I like knowing that, chances are, I'm going to run into a sporting group of fellows.
Bring in an influx of players from the MA, and I fear that's just not going to be the situation any more. You'll have gangbangers, HOnRuners, cherry pickers, and vulchers galore. When I want to deal with (or partake in - I'm no angel) that, I can go to the MA, thanks.
So really, I'm not so keen on advertising the place. If 10 people can still be found in there every now and then, that's perfectly fine.
- And just for the record - My first time in the AvA ever, I immediately HO'd someone, got called on it, said, "You stuck your face in my face," and pretty much got chased out of the arena.
One of the best things that ever happened to me :aok
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Originally posted by MWL
It will be a long time till I venture into the AvA arena again - cause I don't want or need to put up with the verbal crap.
And before anyone says it, detuning 200 is not the answer.
I NEVER fly with 200 on, especially in an arena like the AvA.
Unlike those who base their knowledge of history from 'Black Sheep Squadron' episodes, I know that combatants didnt goad each other over comms like Harachi & Boyington ..."come on up to play, BOY-EENG-TUN'...'not today, riceball!' ...so I detune it.
I will use the .s command, however. Kinda like a wagging of the wings or a salute a la Robert Johnson & Egon Mayer.
But alas, detuning 200 alone dosn't work, because the folks private message you repeatedly to berate you.
As for the comments made by Oldman, points made are quite valid, and well taken. Any true squad worth its mettle upon seeing a great #'s imbalance should/would probably move to an other arena, or split the squad, as seal clubbing is no fun.
However, its all in your perception...I have sent a wingpair in on two bandits, while the rest of the squad stayed high. Said bandits see nothing but P38s in every view during their fight, and hence claim 'gangbang' - even though they were engaged evenly the whole time.
FWIW.
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Originally posted by 1cajun
Please, read a little history on combat tactics, take some responsibility for your own SA and fly a smart fight. A lot of the regulars are great 1 v 1 pilots, I have been shot down by them. But, if a wing pair comes in or a squad shows up they lose their advantage, are no longer kings of the sandbox and the negative comments on 200 start.
Lets put it this way. It is not a history leson. It is a game. As oldman said, it is supposed to be fun and somewhat fair. War is non of the above. I love it when a wing pair shows up. Thats perfectly fine because when they do, I know why they are there. That is actually fun. When the second guy shows up in the midle of a fight is different. It is not SA, it is not history, team work, or what ever lame excuse you want to use. It is just lame. Don't forget, this is a place with 6 guys in it most of the time. In your opinion puting 5 vs 1 would be historic and therefore fun? Or maybe my SA is off?
Next time you pick off someone with your histiryc wingman tactiks and you see somethign on 200, before you reply with your lame excuses think. Think and then type:
200: Thank you! Thank you for not being a lamer like me
Because if that guy wanted to fly like you, you would have ended up with all 6 guys on the same country flying the historyc way. After all, not every flight in WWII ended with a fight, so mayby flying around for an hour with no red guys will be fun for you. I think Ill try it too. Ill set up a recon mission for Saturday. We will fly at 30K taking pics and return to base after an hour :noid
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Just remember the basic attitude of the average AH player.
"When four of us jump you, we're practicing historical paired wingman tactics. When four of you jump me, you're a bunch of gangbanging SOBs."
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Originally posted by Nilsen
What would be fun if it ever could be arranged was if one big squad "challenged" or invited another big squad to meet in AvA for some fun and they could both bring as many walk-ons from outside the squad as they could find.
Set a time and date and then take it from there. When people then log on and see alot of others in the AvA they may also pop in and the ball is rolling. Im sure there are enough large squads that would be interested in having some fun in AvA. After an hour or so they could switch sides and start over.
Nilsen youve struck gold :D
We could have squads signing up and commited, thier CO choosing a permanent plane which they could learn to fly long term, dogging other squads in a classic historical scenario.
:aok
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Originally posted by Gumbeau
The reason folks don't go there is pretty simple.
The people who have gained control over the AvA want a very specific set of behaviors that doesn't appeal to very many people.
Anyone who behaves outside the set is encouraged to stay away.
Who are these "people"? I have read numerous generalizations stating where "they" and "them" are ruining the arena without much information to back it up.
I've always had the attitude that if I die flying online it is because I made a mistake.
The AvA 'grognards' have the attitude that death is caused by deviations from the rules of 'fair play'
Why do people keep bringing up "rules"? Can someone please point out where anyone has been ejected for breaking these so called "rules"? There is some unwritten ettiquete that people are requested to follow when in the arena, and has been there since I started flying this game over 6 years ago. But if you blatantly disregard that ettiquette, you are going to get called out for it. Again, it's your choice as to how you act in the arena.
I've seen this mindset before. The guys that want to duel but never want to face someone in the same aircraft type. What other reason can they have for so many 'rules' and NOT be in the Dueling Arena?
The supposed rules are all cover for various deficiencies.
And I've seen this mindset before also, someone who has no idea what they are talking about. Again, there are no rules. I would bet you that 99.9% of the time, you ask any of the regulars if they want to DA, they will say yes. But be warned, you might be biting off more than you can chew.
Cherry Picking....... Like I said before the US Navy calls this Loose Deuce tactics. One guy makes the bandit predictable and his wingman comes unseen and kills him. I fly Loose Deuce all the time. It is extremely effective against bandits with poor SA. AvA outlaws poor SA by calling it 'Cherry Picking'.
No, cherry picking is definitely NOT Loose deuce tactics. The loose deuce formation is used when in a 2v1 situation where the lead is engaged with the bandit, and wing flies a loose formation slightly above and behind, off the left or right wing, depending on which way the fight is turning. In this position, wing can ensure his lead's six is clear by watching for additional bandits, and is close enough to takeover the engagement in case lead has to pull-off. What you describe is just plain'ol cherry picking that takes no skill or effort whatsoever.
No Head Ons.......It takes two to head on. If one guy is trying to avoid the HO it aint no HO no MO. I welcome guys trying to HO. It tells me immediately they have limited understanding of ACM. I know how to avoid and turn it to my advantage. In the AvA, they make rules agin it because they don't know how to defeat it.
Again there are no rules against HOing. HOing is a topic that is probably just as old as any topic concerning sheep in the online-airsim world, and every opinion is different. So I will just point out that again, if you HO, expect to be called out for it.
Alt Monkey.......... Air Combat is a 3 dimensional world. It is difficult for many to effectively operate in all three dimensions. By creating a rule to limit altitude the third dimension is taken away, especially for later in the war. The fights all degenerate into low altitude circle jerks, easy on the SA and favoring the point and shoot style of flying.
This statement makes me believe that you have never been involved in a good 1v1, 2v1, or furball down on the deck. Again, no rules. But why would you want to tool around at 8-10k, when the rest of the arena is 3-4k below you? Now that being said, there have been nights when fights have been in the 10-15k alt range, usually depends on the setup. Again, again....fly way up there looking for the easy pick, and expect to get called out. [\B]
Gang Bangin........ There is a reason they are called Air Forces. They are not an army of one. If you insist on flying on the deck and getting anchored you are going to see the rest of the home team show up to wipe the floor with you. You should have made a plan to escape other than yelling "Thats not fair". Savlan's example of a Martial Arts movie is great. You aren't Jet Li surrounded by 30 guys with swords who wait patiently so you can finish them off one by one. You get surrounded by 30 guys with swords, you are sushi.
Happens at any altitude. The question I would ask, is why would 3-4 or more people want to chase one?? I think where you will hear the most gnashing of teeth on this is when a 1v1,2v1 turns into a 4-6v1...that is a gang-bang, and is a true example of folks with little skill or ACM ability.
When I came to AH I was hoping the AvA would a place where you could find historical flying, a place to re-create some of the classics from history. Instead I found a Dueling Arena with lots of rules and very little that encouraged teamwork or realistic tactics or flying styles.
What is your ingame handle? I don't remember seeing you in there. When did you start flying in the arena? Are you one of those who spend 15-20 minutes in the arena for the first time, don't like it, and then come here to the BB and jump on the bandwagon of the other 15-20 minuters who say they don't like it because it's everyone else's fault???
This arena is what you make it. There is no "they" or "them" controling the arena to make your life miserable, or make you fly a certain way. If you do certain things, most likely you will be called out for it. At that point, you can do what you want, its a game and its your money. If the commentary gets derogatory, or out of line, and a staffer is not on, then film/screenshot it and send it to one of us, or HTC.
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:rofl These post are killing me. Thank you guys. Really :rofl
What rules are you people talking about? The only rule is that if you go in there HOing and picking expect to be called a HOer and a picker :rofl If that keeps you away from there, oh well, I sad now :rofl
Do you also leave the MA when you are called that there? :rofl
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How exactly would you define the word RULES??
If someone behaves in a fashion that irritates/annoys others, or otherwise goes against the 'norms' of a controlled setting and gets 'called out' for it ( and according to posts here, should expect to be called out for such behavior ) then isnt that breaking some 'rule', written, imaginary or otherwise?
If there is no rules, then why should anyone 'expect' to be called out on anything? Are there rules or not? If not, then everyone should just STFU and fly.
IF its ettiquite you are enforcing...when exactly did the arena become manned by a flight of Amy Vanderbilts?
Rules, ettiquite, you are just playing semantics.
Fact of the matter is just like Baskin Robbins ice cream, HTC provides many flavors of air combat. Not everyone likes the same flavors.
Now we can tell each other how good our favorite flavors taste, and invite each other to try some or our ice cream....and have a ice cream party. The more the merrier. Or, you can be a brat and when someone goes in to take a taste of your flavor, ya smush the cone in the new kids face.
Just dont be surprised when no one comes to your next party. :)
It amazes me that people pay to play in a MMOG - a massively multiplayer online game - and are unhappy to have to deal with multiple players! Sounds like they prefer small, controlled envorinments - like those provided by a box sim, or a private server game- not a subscription based server hosted PUBLIC game.
But some have elected themselves virtual 'Vipers', enforcing the Top Gun RoE - 'this is the hard deck, this is the alt, climb no higher, dont enter fights without reservations.....and while they may not be abusive and warrant ratting out to HTC with screenshots and email, just like a little gnat in your face they become annoying enough that you just leave.
If you go back and read some posts here, there are AvA regulars that openly prefer the small attendance - in fact someone said they are happy with 10 players - sounds almost like a H2H room to me.
Judging from the tone of such posts, it seems we have answered the question that this thread originally posed - Why is AvA always empty? - Because the regulars perfer it that way, and do what they can to make it less than hospitable to newcomers, or anyone who doesnt play by the rules..er.....follow the etiquitte of the arena.
Now, on what side of the dish does the salad fork go again?
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Originally posted by 475FG Savlan
If there is no rules, then why should anyone 'expect' to be called out on anything? Are there rules or not? If not, then everyone should just STFU and fly.
Because if you cherry pick, you are a cherry picker. Why get upset if called that? :rofl Just say, yes I am, STFU and fly :D
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Why get upset if you are called a cherry picker?
Well, then..why does someone get upset if you are cherry picked?? And then take the time to type it over & over? Waaa waaa waaa?
Just say to yourself...I must be a cherry!
Just STFU and fly:)
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Originally posted by 475FG Savlan
Why get upset if you are called a cherry picker?
Well, then..why does someone get upset if you are cherry picked?? And then take the time to type it over & over? Waaa waaa waaa?
Just say to yourself...I must be a cherry!
Just STFU and fly:)
It only takes a second to type it and you did interupt a good fight, most likely. I, personally play the game on line for the fights. So, your lameness does effect me. Me calling you what you are on 200 does not stop you from doing what you want. See? You can stop me from having fun, I can't do anything to you. You choose to cherry pick or vulch online instead of doing it off line. Why? The only reason I can think of is that you like being called what you are on 200 and I provide that service to you free of charge. Yeah yeah I know, no reason to say thank you. Any time bud :aok
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Originally posted by Gumbeau, toonces3, 1cajun, 475FG Savlan
Waaaa, AvA sucks because Vets fairplay is unfair
Gazillion complaints from gazillion guys about MA. Unfair game play, lack of etiquete, ganging, cherry picking, HOs, etc.
They want something different, better. They find their way into AvA. Then they whine how it sucks because it is NOT like MA.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Gazillion complaints from gazillion guys about MA. Unfair game play, lack of etiquete, ganging, cherry picking, HOs, etc.
They want something different, better. They find their way into AvA. Then they whine how it sucks because it is NOT like MA.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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1Duke1,
Before trying to explain what tactics are you should read a little. Shaw's book would be a good start.
Loose Deuce - is the "tag team" style of fighting, where one fighter is "in" on the bogie. His job is to maneuver for a shot, and failing this, to bleed the enemy's energy or force him into a disadvantageous position. He then calls, "Out" and disengages, hopefully up, to conserver energy for the next pass, if needed. The other pilot, formerly the "out" or "perch" pilot can then dive in and engage the bogie while the other pilot climbs to regain energy, regain SA and perform the duties of the perch. The idea is usually for only one plane to be committed at one time; the other, on the perch, is there to ensure the SA for the entire pair and to watch the 6 of the "in" pilot, who can concentrate his full attention on shooting the bogie.The planes continue alternating positions until the bogie is killed or the overall tactical situation changes. At that point, it usually becomes necessary for the pair to either escape or get away from the action to regain their SA...and then onto the next victim.
What you described is a welded wing. It is very interesting if you follow the course this post has taken. You have a virtual verbal dogfight here.
On the one side you have people who understand combat tactics, historical planesets and also see the AvA as an arena that could become a great place and be much different than the MA.
Then there are others who have soon reverted to accusations, taunts and determining that the other side is lame. Much the same as what happens regularly on CH 200.
If the numbers are usually 4 or 6 then I suggest you take advantage of the 8 person arena. You can become King of the Sandbox and nobody will bother you. The problem is that you would like to take advantage of historical planesets and bigger maps so that you can have close 1v1 or 2v2 matchups. I'll have to check, did the makers of the AvA arena disable bombers and base captures? No, I think they had more in mind for the arena than for it to become a personal dueling arena.
The attitudes of a few and their propensity for verbal assault on CH 200 have kept the arena numbers low. 1v1 or 2v2 and they are great pilots. Bring in a 3rd and they have to become aware of their own SA and they run into trouble and revert to the verbal attack when the iron attack fails.
You fly around and look for a bandit to engage. You see one and you have the advantageous position. Some see this and immediately think, "Let me pull into him hard and force the HO merge. Then I can extend away and improve my position." It's another safety blanket. They should change the code in the game and have a giant white flag pop out of the plane when you are in trouble. If you are in a 1v1 and lose the advantage, say someone shoots off your flaps or oils your engine, do you break off and let him rtb? Why finish him? What's the fun of that?
No, this thread has brought up a lot of good discussion and ideas and sadly it has encouraged a few to treat is as CH200 because they have no desire to see the arena grow beyond their own personal dueling arena.
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cajun the fact that he's whiney tard aside 1Duke1 flew F14s for living. I would dare say he could give us all a tutorial on team flying.
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Yeah 1Duke1, you newbie... Why don't you read a little!? :furious :rofl
1cajun,
I think what you're implying by "loose duce" is:
Vudak goes and engages enemy 1 v 1, turns, burns, E-Fights, whatever, bleeds his E out.
Enemy might be able to beat Vudak, but has no defense against someone else.
1Cajun comes screaming in to the "rescue," blasting poor defenseless enemy (let's just call him "Wounded Mouse") out of the skies.
Well that sounds like a blast :rolleyes: ... For anyone in the situation :rolleyes:
You call people out, saying "1v1 or 2v2 they're great pilots, but bring in a 3rd..."
Well, I'll tell ya what... 1 v 3 where all are pressing the attack, you'll find these guys are great sticks too. It's when it's 1 v 2 knife fighting and the 3rd hero sulks in the background, waiting for the 1's E to be bled and then comes screaming back at 300mph vs the 1's 110, and cherry picks him, that's when these sticks don't seem so "great," and quite frankly, neither would Lev.
That has nothing to do with some lack of SA. That has everything to do with "nothing I can do about it except run." Maybe you'd prefer that's what the 1 did though, right? Just break away and run a few sectors like in the MA? That is, after all, a pretty historical tactic?
Again, sounds like a BLAST :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by 1cajun
1Duke1,
Before trying to explain what tactics are you should read a little. Shaw's book would be a good start.
Cajun you stepped in it there bud. Duke has been a real fighter pilot, not just playing one on the intardnet. :lol
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Originally posted by 1cajun
Lots of words (must be a big big whine)
Most of AvA regulars fly in MA as well. Their skill, SA included is probably above average. Throwing some books here or belittle their knowledge is therefore silly.
They wanna have fair fights when numbers are low because it makes more sense.
When more than dozen players are online (especially on squad nights), they usually have team fights and many vs one fights are acceptable as long as it doesn't become too excessive. They do care about "balanced" game play.
Contrary to MA, when you get called on 200 in AvA, more often than not, you deserve it.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Gazillion complaints from gazillion guys about MA. Unfair game play, lack of etiquete, ganging, cherry picking, HOs, etc.
They want something different, better. They find their way into AvA. Then they whine how it sucks because it is NOT like MA.
Maybe it seems like that. My opinion of gameplay is evolving, I haven't played long enough to have firm opinions of how this game should be played yet.
All whining aside, I can say that I've never been made to feel unwelcome in AvA, and as I mentioned before, the calibre of play is very high there. Additionally, the smaller numbers and 200 chatter can be used to learn alot about ACM, sort of a mini-training arena.
Maybe I'll try spending some more time in there. I do hate getting shot down so much though.
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My apologies to 1Duke1. I thank you for your service
. I did my own 22 years on active duty.
I have just ripped pages 214-215 out of Shaw's book. He must have been foolish.
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I ll say it again. 4 MAs already. Why do you need another one? The stuff you read in a book - even though valid and usefull in a real war - you are using then as just another lame excuse.
Why do you need to practice those in the AvA? Simple answer. Low numbers means it is safer for you to practice that there. Your SA is not good nuff to play like that in the MA so you want to take advantage of the low numbers to keep safe
Why dont you look at it this way. 4 MAs to do everything you want. When you want a somewhat fair fight then you go to the AvA. Otherwise, what is the point of having it? Rename it MA rainbow or something and get it over with.
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Duke's status as a former F14 jock notwithstanding there seems to be some confusion.
There is Loose Deuce Formation which Duke accurately describes (it is the formation associated with welded wing doctrine) and then there is Loose Deuce Tactical Doctrine.
For comparison, lets talk about the three primary tactical doctrines for wing pairs.
Welded Wing
Double Attack
Loose Deuce
Welded Wing is the tactical doctrine in which the wingman protects his element (section in the navy) lead while the lead does the attacking. The wing man dos this by flying in a cone centered on the lead six o'clock. Welded Wing has the advantage of being relatively easy. It is the primary tactical doctrine for inexperienced wingmen or in situations where massed firepower is more important than flexibility (An example would be bomber attack)
Double Attack is a much more flexible doctrine. It is similar to tag team wrestling in that both pilots alternate roles as engaged and free fighter in a rapid switching designed to quickly deteriorate an opponents energy state. It requires more teamwork and communication but is extremely effective against hard turning bandits. In Double Attack the engaged fighter is the shooter.
Loose Deuce Doctrine is the most difficult to fly efficiently and requires a wing pair that know each other well. In Loose Deuce the engaged fighter usually is not the shooter. His primary focus is to keep the bandit busy while the free fighter maneuvers for (ideally) a belly side guns pass. In the classic Loose Deuce engagement described by Shaw pre merge the Loose Deuce pair float into a bracket forcing the bandit to choose one side of the bracket. The friendly chosen by the bandit will pass close abeam the bandit as close to head on as possible. This forces the bandit into a turn away from the other friendly, who is now the engaged fighter because he has rear quarter position on the bandit due to his lead turn on the bandit. The other friendly is now the free fighter and will initiate a nose high pull to position above the fight.
The bandit has two choices. React to the free fighter and go nose high. This would give the engage fighter an easy shot. Most likely the bandit will react to the rear quarter threat. The engaged fighter will now put just enough pressure on the bandit to keep him predictable. Lag pursuit is the most effective method for doing so. As the bandit continues his turn most of his attention will be on the rear quarter threat. About 3/4 through the turn the free fighter should be established in his diving attack from high belly side, setting up a kill shot.
This is the classic 2 v 1 loose deuce engagement starting with a co-alt merge. Loose Deuce Doctrine is very simple. The engaged fighter pressures the enemy enough to keep him predictable but not enough to get him into hard defensive maneuvers. This predictability enables the free fighter to quickly maneuver for 'easy' kill.
Maybe I am mistaken and the US NAVY doesn't use this tactical doctrine. In that case I would like to take full credit for it because it works really great and I must be a genius for figuring it out.
Lets name it the Gumbeau Gambit. Anyway, 'cherry picking' is probably the most effective offensive doctrine for a wing pair to employ. The beauty of it is you can employ it any time a bandit is predictable and distracted, even if it isn't your wingman distracting him.
As for the rest of the post..........
The definition of a HEAD ON is a situation in which BOTH aircraft have a guns solution. Therefore, both parties are equally guilty and neither can 'CALL' the other on it. If one of the two DOESN"T have a guns solution it isn't a HEADON. At worst it is a high aspect snapshot. So ANYONE calling someone on a HEAD ON they were a participant in is a hypocrite.
As for my online resume, I don't think I'll bother to post it here. I doubt the thousands of fights of all descriptions would impress you anyway.
But I will take the blame for one thing. The AvA is the way it is because good people like me don't go in there and stand up to the 'Rules of Engagement' Duelists. I'm sure the intent was originally to avoid some of the more overt dweebery that occurs in the MA and that is a worthy goal but somewhere along the way it has been corrupted.
So in the end it is our own fault for not bringing our historically minded squads there regularly and shining the light of truth on the 'ROE'.
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I too am a new player to AH. I came over from WB’s and have flown some other sims as well. I’m also happen to be Cajun’s wingman and bud I’ll fly with you anytime in the AvA or any other arena for that matter. Our interest has always been in flying historical mission profiles. We have and will continue to focus on special events, because they are as realistic as it gets. The AvA seems like a good place to practice historical plane match ups within a limited scope. Like everyone else, I have some thoughts about enhancing game play in the AvA. But I’m not convinced anyone is interested in listening right now.
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Originally posted by Gumbeau
The definition of a HEAD ON is a situation in which BOTH aircraft have a guns solution. Therefore, both parties are equally guilty and neither can 'CALL' the other on it. If one of the two DOESN"T have a guns solution it isn't a HEADON. At worst it is a high aspect snapshot. So ANYONE calling someone on a HEAD ON they were a participant in is a hypocrite.
Well, you certainly nailed it there :rolleyes: if guy A & B both have a solution, and only A fires, and B calls him on it, he sure is a hypocrite.
I'm sure the intent was originally to avoid some of the more overt dweebery that occurs in the MA and that is a worthy goal but somewhere along the way it has been corrupted.
Well, somewhere along the line, it has managed, for the most part, to work. If you have a better plan, let us know.
Otherwise, as Dedalos has pointed out, fly however you like, but don't be suprised when you get called on it. Whether or not you want to let that get to you is up to you. I did, and it has made all the difference. The game is all the more enjoyable for me now that I actually try and shoot the guy down in a fight, rather than an undetected bounce. YVMV.
The bottom line though, is AvA features a thing called chivalry. You might not know it from reading the responses here, including mine, but if you came in, and just observed for awhile how the regulars treat each other, you might find it a nice difference from the MA.
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i guess im an idiot cause ive only had positive experiences in the ava:rolleyes:
some of the most interesting fights ive had were in the ava, and filth missions are awsome including the post mission furballs;) if only i had the time id be in there right now...
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Originally posted by Gumbeau
The definition of a HEAD ON is a situation in which BOTH aircraft have a guns solution. Therefore, both parties are equally guilty and neither can 'CALL' the other on it. If one of the two DOESN"T have a guns solution it isn't a HEADON. At worst it is a high aspect snapshot. So ANYONE calling someone on a HEAD ON they were a participant in is a hypocrite.
So, when I am already in a 1 vs 3 twisting and turning trying to stay alive, and a fourth guy dives in from 10K blasting at me HO with complete desregard about killshooting himself by hiting he guys on my six, or just coliding with a slow plane that cant get out of the way fast enough it is my fault. And if that fight has been going on for a few minutes and all 4 of us were having fun, I will be a hypocrite if I say something on 200? Or is that some kind of a historyc wing man tactic that I cannot grasp?
Why don't you try coming in there and see what the complains are about, if you even see one and then come back and post explaining to me what the definition of head on is. No one ever gets a ping on my using your definition.
As Vudak said, propose something on how to bring people in it but don't make it another MA. We have 4 already
BTW, all you have to do is anounce that you are flying as a team and no one will say a word to you. The MA 200 has a lot more trash talk that does not keep anyone from going there. You are telling you are not going to the AvA because you are afraid someone will call you a HO? :rofl
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^pwn:lol
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Originally posted by dedalos
So, when I am already in a 1 vs 3 twisting and turning trying to stay alive, and a fourth guy dives in from 10K blasting at me HO with complete desregard about killshooting himself by hiting he guys on my six, or just coliding with a slow plane that cant get out of the way fast enough it is my fault. And if that fight has been going on for a few minutes and all 4 of us were having fun, I will be a hypocrite if I say something on 200? Or is that some kind of a historyc wing man tactic that I cannot grasp?
Why don't you try coming in there and see what the complains are about, if you even see one and then come back and post explaining to me what the definition of head on is. No one ever gets a ping on my using your definition.
As Vudak said, propose something on how to bring people in it but don't make it another MA. We have 4 already
BTW, all you have to do is anounce that you are flying as a team and no one will say a word to you. The MA 200 has a lot more trash talk that does not keep anyone from going there. You are telling you are not going to the AvA because you are afraid someone will call you a HO? :rofl
Poor Headwork Example 1
If you are already on the short end of a 1 vs 3 you aren't thinking very far ahead in the first place. You left yourself with no options except to fight against overwhelming odds.
Poor Headwork Example 2
By stating the fourth bandit blasted in from 10K you have given away the fact that you have got yourself in a low altitude many versus one fight.
If you are twisting and turning to stay alive would it not follow that the bandit would have to maneuver in a mirror to your twisting and turning in order to stay HO? This is impossible. For it to be a HO YOU would have to fly at the bandit while he is flying at you. More likely, you pulled as hard as you could trying to reach a guns solution but couldn't. The bandit did. Most complaints about HO's are really " I saw you coming to shoot me and I tried my best to create a HO but couldn't get there"
It doesn't really matter WHY you let the other guy shoot you. It is still your fault that he shot you.
As for staying out of fights, I hadn't notice the "Please Take a Number" machine in the AvA. I do think we should put that on the wishlist. "Now Serving number 4"
As for getting more folks that is only matter of getting a few squadrons to start flying there regularly and this whole episode is a faded memory.
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Gumbeau, how long exactly have you played this game?
Your statement of: "Most complaints about HO's are really " I saw you coming to shoot me and I tried my best to create a HO but couldn't get there"
kind of suggests not that long. If you have been playing for awhile, maybe you haven't been really paying attention?
Take Dedalos' example and throw out his HO charge against the 4th attacker. Leave it at, the 4th guy came in and took a shot.
Is that really desirable gameplay to you? Does that in any way seem fair, or sporting, or fun? For anyone in the situation?
There's just a point where there's overkill is what I'm saying.
I don't think anyone's telling you not to fight as a team or use tactics. Heck, one of the most exciting things in this game is being in, say, a Spitfire while two higher, faster 190s come screaming in at you from different angles, trying to pick you to pieces. But make that three, four, five 190s and it's not so exciting anymore.
And if you want to talk about "poor headwork," make sure you don't live in a glass house. Blowing 10k of alt to be that 4th man in on the deck is incredibly poor headwork as well.
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Originally posted by Gumbeau
Poor Headwork Example 1
If you are already on the short end of a 1 vs 3 you aren't thinking very far ahead in the first place. You left yourself with no options except to fight against overwhelming odds.
Poor Headwork Example 2
By stating the fourth bandit blasted in from 10K you have given away the fact that you have got yourself in a low altitude many versus one fight.
If you are twisting and turning to stay alive would it not follow that the bandit would have to maneuver in a mirror to your twisting and turning in order to stay HO? This is impossible. For it to be a HO YOU would have to fly at the bandit while he is flying at you. More likely, you pulled as hard as you could trying to reach a guns solution but couldn't. The bandit did. Most complaints about HO's are really " I saw you coming to shoot me and I tried my best to create a HO but couldn't get there"
It doesn't really matter WHY you let the other guy shoot you. It is still your fault that he shot you.
As for staying out of fights, I hadn't notice the "Please Take a Number" machine in the AvA. I do think we should put that on the wishlist. "Now Serving number 4"
As for getting more folks that is only matter of getting a few squadrons to start flying there regularly and this whole episode is a faded memory.
You sir are either new, not very bright, or both
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Last post on this. What started as a thread asking why the arena is mostly empty has resulted in insults and name calling. Exactly what happens on CH200 and why the arena is empty. Those that engage in this are the ones that are happy with the low numbers.
Truly sad. :(
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Originally posted by 1cajun
Exactly what happens on CH200 and why the arena is empty.
By that theory all main arenas should be completely empty.
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Originally posted by 1cajun
Last post on this. What started as a thread asking why the arena is mostly empty has resulted in insults and name calling. Exactly what happens on CH200 and why the arena is empty. Those that engage in this are the ones that are happy with the low numbers.
Truly sad. :(
Damn,,, guess you cant detune 200. That's a shame.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
Damn,,, guess you cant detune 200. That's a shame.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Bronk
It's not only 200...
I used to fly a bit CT/AvA. Had much fun with alternate planesets, a nice change of pace from my usual MA forays.
I stopped because of all that big egos there. Either constant whining about real or percieved HO's, cherry-picks and such. Or lot's of chest-thumping and mutual assurances how all that MA dweebs do suck. But even worse, many times a new player who (maybe accidentally) strayed into the arena was not getting a friendly welcome but a lot of name calling for not following the "rules" of AvA - which were naturally unknown to him.
The last time I was there I was immediatly called a "Tard" on my own(!) countrychannel, because I dared to fly a Spitfire vs 5 LW planes.
Some of the AvA regulars seem to do everything to stop that arena from gaining more popularity. I guess they are afraid they wouldn't have that "Elite" feeling anymore...
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Originally posted by Lusche
It's not only 200...
I used to fly a bit CT/AvA. Had much fun with alternate planesets, a nice change of pace from my usual MA forays.
I stopped because of all that big egos there. Either constant whining about real or percieved HO's, cherry-picks and such. Or lot's of chest-thumping and mutual assurances how all that MA dweebs do suck. But even worse, many times a new player who (maybe accidentally) strayed into the arena was not getting a friendly welcome but a lot of name calling for not following the "rules" of AvA - which were naturally unknown to him.
The last time I was there I was immediatly called a "Tard" on my own(!) countrychannel, because I dared to fly a Spitfire vs 5 LW planes.
Some of the AvA regulars seem to do everything to stop that arena from gaining more popularity. I guess they are afraid they wouldn't have that "Elite" feeling anymore...
Oh, that was just Storch and Truekill trying to follow the Skyrock model. ;)
Yes, there are a couple of well-known loudmouths that frequent the AvA. I find it funny how that "drives people out" of the AvA but is considered just "banter" anywhere else.
It is also unfortunate that, once again, I see many people who do not fly the AvA continue to paint all who do with the same broad brush.
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Page 5 of this thread.
Here's the test then:
In 25 words or less explain why the AvA is basically empty all the time.
Address the question, do not waste words slamming someone else's idea.
Just type the reason you personally believe it has such a small following.
Ready... set... GO!
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Originally posted by Toad
Page 5 of this thread.
Here's the test then:
In 25 words or less explain why the AvA is basically empty all the time.
Address the question, do not waste words slamming someone else's idea.
Just type the reason you personally believe it has such a small following.
Ready... set... GO!
The AvA is touted as something different.
If someone tries it and finds MA behavior even one time, they get disappointed and leave, and do not return.
Then the B*tch about it in the BBs forever, which keeps others from even trying it out.
More than 25 words, but the basic truth IMO.
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Originally posted by Toad
Page 5 of this thread.
Here's the test then:
In 25 words or less explain why the AvA is basically empty all the time.
Address the question, do not waste words slamming someone else's idea.
Just type the reason you personally believe it has such a small following.
Ready... set... GO!
How about one word:
Expectations
:lol
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Hmm, interesting thread. My system has been down a few days.
Looks like the AvA areana is a great place to "cherry pick" as well as "boom and Zoom" a few unsuspecting people.
I don't ever recall hearing about any rules in a gun fight.
The more people I can have on my side against the bad guys, the better I like it. If I get the shot, (happens very rarely) great. But then again, I'm usually just happy to survive and be thankfull for an assist.
Oh, and by the way, I have flown for a few years, here and WB. I just never got good at it, but do so much enjoy shooting people down. Especially if they are taking off from a capped field that has been de acked and no ground vehicles :)
Have a safe flight, and don't forget to buckle your parachute harness properly :rofl
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I prefer the AVA because of the gentlemens 'rules' about how to play in there. If it's not your cup of tea there are other options available to you. That said I can see how getting called a cherry picker etc can keep potential new blood out.
I, personally, will never call someone out on 200. Two reasons A) I'm not a good enough stick to start talking !@#$!@% to someone and if I was I'd just reup, find them, and spank them like a gitmo detainee B) I've said it before NOBODY likes being called out in front of their peers.
The only time I was doing something 'wrong' in the AVA I was politely pm'd the 'cultural preferences' and took them to heart.
You'll find me in there flying planes I ABSOLUTELY HATE for side balance. Why? Because the regulars have always been pleasant and helpful to me. I'm saddened that JG54 and some of the other regs have had issues because I loved flying aside and against those guys. Hopefully those issues can be resolved behind the scenes.
Look it's pretty simple. Nobody can tell you how to fly in any arena but the generally accepted 'rules' in my mind are as follow:
1. Don't HO.
This is pretty important because if I'm flying and I see a bunch of regs on the opposing side and we're merging I'm already thinking about my next move. BAM I'm dead because I thought I was merging with a vet. Next time I'm on a merge I pull the trigger PM or on 200 'dicho what the hell man?' oh sorry didn't know it was you. Do you see where this causes problems. This actually happened recently.
2. 2 v 1 cool but that's the limit. The other night I was chasing a con and saw 2 friendlies with alt come screaming in. I pulled out and let them go and wound up in a turning roller coaster of a fight with B@tfink. Yup I died but it was much more satisfying than clubbing a baby seal.
3. (this is mine) Don't be insulting but have a thick skin. A little smack talk is amusing (and yes I think the Skyrock 'owns' is hysterical. If you don't you have issues) but trying to humiliate someone or whine on 200 is simply stupid. You have to take your hands OFF of your controls, THINK about what you are typing, and consciously hit enter. If you wouldn't want it said to you in public don't say it IN public. Geez I think I learned this in kindergarden.
4. Don't vulch. The AVA is pretty much about plane vs plane. Let the guy get up and get ready to fight. It's much more satisfying to kill an enemy who is on equal footing than clubbing baby seals. At least it is to me.
5. By extension don't run for the ack. If you come screaming through my field vulching my friendlies and I have to chase you to your ack I will consider you a dweeb and will cheerfully not clear your six if i see you on my side engaged with the borg collective.
Now these are the 'rules' I fly by in the AVA. It is not my intention to tell anybody to follow them but I think they are good advice.
Gentlemen let's keep some perspective here. This is a GAME that is SUPPOSED TO BE FUN. Some nights are good nights, some are bad, and some just plain suck. Learn to laugh at yourself a little. I do all of the time and it keeps me grounded. If I can laugh at myself I don't feel bad for laughing at you when you're being a retard or do soemething stupid.
Of course that's just my opinion.
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Historical arenas are based on the concept of a much more realistic style of game play than you find in the “fantasy” mains. Realistic meaning arena settings, plane sets and terrains that as closely simulate a specific time period as practical. While it shares similar mission profiles with its’ main counterpart, it’s the environment in which these missions are flown the sets the two apart. This style of game play tends to attract the more serious type of player. Folks who have a much more thorough understanding of the history involved, the technical aspects of the aircraft and appreciation for the sacrifices that were made. All other things aside, this is what sets the historical style player apart from the rest. There is a somewhat “elitist” attitude that comes with this higher level of game play, but it’s of pride not arrogance. It’s something others can aspire to, not be afraid of. A code of conduct in arena play…..I don’t have a problem with that concept. I was taught from day one to avoid HO’s because they are poor tactical situations. No more than two friendlies on a single con at a time. Vulching, more on a case by case basis. If someone ups from a capped field they have made a major tactical error and will often have to pay for it. Of course all this goes out the door in events. These things add to the grit that makes event play as close to the real thing as it gets. But we’re not talking about events here. The AvA maybe the arena the regulars who fly there want, but it is not a true historical arena because the scope of game play is too limited and the action to monitored and controlled. If the goal was simply to create an arena very different from the main then it has succeeded. But it falls short of utilizing the full potential of the game and lacks the spontaneity and the feeling of riding the edge of controlled chaos that marks the true historical arena. The AvA is almost what I’ve been looking for.
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I think more would play there, if game play was more along the lines of the old "Warbirds" ww2 arena. But with out the rollin plane set, keeping battles one week long, then move on to a new fight & maps.
Cavalry
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Originally posted by CAV
I think more would play there, if game play was more along the lines of the old "Warbirds" ww2 arena. But with out the rollin plane set, keeping battles one week long, then move on to a new fight & maps.
Cavalry
That's how the AVA staff does it now. New planes and maps every week.
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and it's FUN!!!!
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I agree with Cav on this one. Before I left WB’s there had been talk about moving away from the RPS to a “battles” concept. The AvA is already using this format. WWII arena guys like myself would have killed to have the strat, terrains and game development that are available over here. Give players a reason to fly JU-88 and Stuka missions in a BOB scenario, to fly SBD’s and Val’s in the Pacific or escort heavies in the ETO. This is the spontaneity I referred to earlier. One mission I might fly a fighter sweep, the next mission I’m intercepting escorted bombers. Things are in constant motion and nobody knows exactly what will happen next. Great fights aren’t carefully scripted, but take on a life of their own without the safety of controlled circumstances. The culture of sportsmanship and chivalry are an important part of this arena, but they must be blended with the reality that things like HO’s, vulching and gang-banging will happen. Peoples tempers will flare. Accept it as part of the experience and don’t let it become an artificial limit on game play. This type of change would require a fundamental shift in the way the staff and vets envision the arena. Maybe this format isn’t what they want. I don’t know, but the reality is they hold the cards and if there’s no interest in pursuing this approach. I can’t do much about it.
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Posted by Dicho:
2 v 1 cool but that's the limit.
The AVA is pretty much about plane vs plane.
Posted by Trap2000:
WWII arena guys like myself would have killed to have the strat, terrains and game development that are available over here. Give players a reason to fly JU-88 and Stuka missions in a BOB scenario, to fly SBD’s and Val’s in the Pacific or escort heavies in the ETO. This is the spontaneity I referred to earlier. One mission I might fly a fighter sweep, the next mission I’m intercepting escorted bombers. Things are in constant motion and nobody knows exactly what will happen next. Great fights aren’t carefully scripted, but take on a life of their own without the safety of controlled circumstances.
I'm going to repeat what I've already said about 3 times now. The AvA as Dicho describes it is a dueling arena.
The AvA as Trap describes it is a 'Main Arena' based around historical plane matchups.
In my OPINION based upon my 4 months of play, the AvA would be much better served encouraging Trap's vision of the AvA rather than Dicho's vision (which is, incidentally, how it is right now).
Dicho says, "I prefer the AVA because of the gentlemens 'rules' about how to play in there. If it's not your cup of tea there are other options available to you."
My reply to that would be that if you prefer 1v1 or 2v1 matchups where the participants can agree to 'gentlemanly rules' then there are other options available to you as well.
In my OPINION, the AvA has the very best that AH2 has to offer, and has hamstrung it with all of this attitude, that seems to be very us vs. them, although I can't understand why. We're all after the same thing, which is to fly pretend video game airplanes and have a good time. We all WANT the same thing.
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:aok Toonces!
Its pretty apparent from all the effort and emotion that we all are pretty passionate about the game & the subject at hand. This should give you a decent idea about how many people could/would be in the arena because of all it has to offer, but are not because of prevailing attitudes.
The main arenas are always gonna be popular because of one reason.
CHOICE.
The ability to fly what you want, how you want, when you want.
LW is more popular than MW or EW for the same reason, magnified. More choices as the plane set is bigger.
AvA with its stricter scope will never be a threat to a LW arena for the same reasons. A JG may not log in if there is a Pacific theme, and a P38 guy may not log in if its Battle of Britian. Not that this is a bad thing - It gives a alternative to the player that tires of P51 vs P51 in the MA. And it rotates so its always fresh.
But narrow the scope of the AvA further with community enforced behavior mods, and you will drive away & further segment your 'target audience'.
And I believe that goes back to the original question, why is the AvA empty?
I submit that if you want 1v1 or 2v2, fair, balanced fights in a controlled environment with rules of engagement agreed to by both parties ( which I think pretty much sums up the things current AvA regulars strive for & have stressed here ) then what you are seeking is to duel.
Duel - a consensual fight between two people, with matched deadly weapons, in accordance with rules explicitly or implicitly agreed upon.
Pretty much sounds like what you AvA gents prefer.
And we have a dueling arena for just such a desire.
Now, if you'd like to take a bite out of the attendance of a LW main, consider a arena with the free form MA style, combined with all the AvA settings, planesets, and terrains, and all the hard work the AvA gents do to maintain such a arena and keep it fresh.
Instead of La7s ad infinitum, Corsairs, P40s & P38s mixing it up with Ki's, A6Ms, & NiK's. TBMs & Vals hunting each others carrier groups. All with a beautiful CM terrain like the slot. Judging by the complaints about the MA terrain rotation, I think some players are hungry for a change in their simming diet.
Or you can 1 v1 at 10k or under, from the two closest fields.
Which to me puts the stress of the arena on the duel, and not the Axis vs the Allies.
Maybe we should just rename the arena?
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SAV,
If the numbers are low say 10 to each side, then you are saying it is a good thought and good etiquette to let 4 to 6 guys pounce 1 lone plane flying and already fighting another in the AvsA ? and it is that own lone guys mistake for being in a situation to where he could be pounced by 5 others after he is alread tied up in an engagement with an enemy plane?
or like some person posted on here, to where he likes to go in and vulch players taking off in the AvsA arena?
hmm let me scan back and quote the person who said that....just one minute please.....
POSTED by iaqmya:
Oh, and by the way, I have flown for a few years, here and WB. I just never got good at it, but do so much enjoy shooting people down. Especially if they are taking off from a capped field that has been de acked and no ground vehicles
I have played this game for a good number of years myself, and I have never in my life heard anyone from the AvsA staff tell another that they are breaking any rules regarding flying with an alt cap, vulching a field, dogpiling 1 or 2 lone players, I have however seen them perform their duties in calling people out on not being polite, or using vulgarity/masked vulgarity/fragging friendlies/ being a nusiance and disruptting everyone elses game play time....
btw, Vudak, Gumbeau was a Trainer for WB ( Warbirds )
gentlemens rules is no different than having a code of ethics or using good game play etiquette..........
if I purposely dive into 2/3/4 bad guys and I die, then it is MY FAULT, if I am dogifghting 1/2/3/4 guys and I was the one to initiate it, then it is my fault......
If I am in a fight with 1 to 3 guys and "WE ALL ARE HAVING FUN" it is our fault
if some vulching, cherry picking horde flying timid arse no concept of having good gamemanship or any respect for his fellow gamers comes diving into any fight be it 1 vs 1 , 1 vs 4, 4 vs 1, 2 vs 5, 5 vs 3.......and just picks at his best opportune time..then he is a avacado and he deserves to be called a avacado and needs to learn etiquette, and learn how to appreciate others game playing time........but he will not.he will run to these boards and whine that "The AvsA ELITE egos, make rules ( btw there really is no rules, just a request to give everyone respect and get the same respect back in turn )...... or as I have seen posted, people claiming all anyone wants to do is DUEL......
this is far from dueling, it is different planes, different merges, differing speeds, differing alts, differing levels of how many are intangled in a fight.I have seen tank battles, CV battles, Bomber raids and intercept flights....
but most everyone overshadows every single good point in the AvsA and post Negativity ....
I ask the complainers in this thread to be part of the solution and quit being the negative part , come help MOLD the AvsA in to the Greatness it can be and quit slamming the AvsA for things that you think you see..........but isn't like you see it at all, yes the AvsA has a good few flyers who has big overinflated egos, they whine just like the squeakers do in the MA< and some who hordefly and try to play for score, but this is not the majority of the AvsA players and it never will be......
it is up to the players to mold and pressure the new guys "the right way" with good sportsmanship, good code of ethics to fly by, and to show common courtesy to their fellow player........
any volunteers on helping improve the AvsA? the door is invitingly open for you to come help....
I am sure every AvsA CM Staff Member would welcome you with open arms.....
enough of the Negative BS......
~S~
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With all due respect, TC, trainer or not, that statement of his regarding what most complaints of HOs are led me to believe that he has not had his eyes open all that long.
Perhaps the fact that he was a trainer (and therefore dealing with newer players who wouldn't "know") explains that away, but it still had me saying :huh when I first read it.
Shrug.
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earlier today I was involved in a furball. on my side it was vanscrew in a 109G2 and myself in a 109G6. we fought seven rooks one was a P38 there was a Ki61 the rest were F6Fs and seafires. I shot a seafire off of vans six and in quick succession eliminated two hellcats and another spit. I heard vans go boom but was busy with the reupping nits now all in spits. as I was lining up the fifth kill a hellcat humble (snaphook) picked me I think in the Ki61. it was a fun fight in the MA I acknowledged the participants on 200 and re upped.
if that had occurred in the AvA I would have been pissed, that's the difference between the MA and the AvA. incidents like that do occur in the AvA but they shouldn't.
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toonces and savlan you both make good points and if you know anything about me I am far from an elitist. I'll wing with anybody so long as I haven't seen them engage in dweebish behavior over time. If I came across as an elitist you have my sincere apologies as that was not the spirit in which my post was intended.
I'd love to see better numbers in AVA but I don't want to fly the way it is generally flown in the MA's. I want to fly 1 v1 or 2 v 1 and not get picked when I'm pulling out all the stops against a storch, b@tfink, oldman, dedalos, TC, etc.. Just up your SA people say. Good in theory not so great in practice.
As TC said if you have ideas on how to get a large populace in the AVA regularly please feel free to initiate them. My only request is that we try to keep some of the gentlemens rules in place and play the game with a spirit of sportsmanship and good humor instead of the trash talking dweeb fest that is the MA.
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Originally posted by Phil
Any input anyone ?
Here’s my answer to the original question.
First, three reasons that are NOT why AvA numbers are low:
- Badmouthing. I don’t fly the MAs very often, but frankly anyone who prefers the MAs because he was offended by AvA chatter is just not watching the MA text buffer or listening to the MA VOX. There is no comparison.
- Etiquette. It could be that 100% of the people who fly in the MAs like to vulch, gang and pick. I believe this to be statistically unlikely. I don’t think anyone who has participated in this discussion has yet said, “Hey, I don’t want to fly in an arena where these things are frowned upon, because they’re what make AH fun for me.”
- Lack of variety. While the MAs do have more planes available to each side, it seems to me that in practice the vast majority of aircraft one encounters will always be drawn from a group of six or seven. The AvA - if you count the planes available to both sides - usually has about the same number.
Next, the reasons I think AvA numbers are low:
- Squadron loyalty. Many squadrons are devoted to a particular airplane, a particular nationality, a particular chess piece, a particular arena, or a war-winning focus. These folks won’t want to fly in the AvA when the moon is not in the seventh house. Probably inertia plays a part, too. There have been recent attempts for some squads to schedule regular AvA appearances, but you can see it’s been a struggle for their leaders.
- Favorite airplanes. Many people prefer to always fly one plane type (or maybe two or three). You only have to watch the many, and repeated, threads on that MA side-balancing formula (“I pay my $14.99 each month so that I can fly my P-51!”) to know that this is true. By design, the AvA will not allow you to do that most weeks. A big part of this is also that most people tire of early- or mid-war planes, which are harder to fly and more difficult to get kills in.
- The vicious circle of low population. If you log in and there are no people in the arena, or only one or two, you are likely to move on to a more populated arena. The critical mass necessary to draw others in only happens in a comparatively brief time span most days.
- No war. Much of the MA dynamic seems to be focused on resetting the map. Four years ago I would have said that this was a relatively minor attraction of the game. Now I think it is a major attraction, perhaps THE major attraction for a large number of players. The debates that followed the splitting of the One True MA convinced me that we have a huge number of people who fly to win the war, not the air combat. Won’t work in AvA, because winning the war porks the setup.
The switch to AH2. When we went from AH to AH2 and got the new flight modeling, most of the Combat Theater crowd rushed into the MA to try out all of their favorite planes. It took them awhile to check out the way all the “new” planes flew, and how that affected combat. It took the map makers an even longer while to make new AvA maps that worked with AH2. The gap was too long; the regulars got used to the MA, and most of them - for all of the reasons above - never came back.
Bullethead once said that all AvA arenas are doomed to smaller numbers. In the heyday of the Combat Theater we managed to get just over 100 participants on good nights, and averaged 30-50. That was back when we had more people interested in the history and in their own fighter proficiency. I don’t know if we’ll ever get back to that. In the meantime the staff does its part to make the arena the best place possible for the people who DO like to come in here.
- oldman
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Sheep flock.
Next question please.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Bullethead once said that all AvA arenas are doomed to smaller numbers. In the heyday of the Combat Theater we managed to get just over 100 participants on good nights, and averaged 30-50. That was back when we had more people interested in the history and in their own fighter proficiency. I don’t know if we’ll ever get back to that. In the meantime the staff does its part to make the arena the best place possible for the people who DO like to come in here.
- oldman
One of the best points made in this thread.
One thing I would like to add, and I've brought this up before. It might help to have bombers, and base captures in more setups. Plus limet numbers to two or three fighter types at the most per setup. As far as porking the map, that's one off the biggest issues. It would be nice to allow base captures for those that it appeals to, but it porks the arena reseting the map.
If you could make the setup where a limted number of bases could be captured so arena can't be porked that would help. Since that isn't possible we'd have to be on the honor system limiting base captures, and I doubt if that would work.
In the heyday of the old CT like OM said we were able to have decent numbers, and generally cooperate.We had buffs, GVs, and base captures. The whole dynamic changed at some point and it's never been the same.
Cooperation would be the key if the finger pointing and name calling would stop for a bit. Yes the AVA staff produces setups that appeal to those that fly in there regularly. If those of us that don't fly in there regularly want more input, more participation might be the seed to plant to have more input.
Squad participation should not be frowned on, but also remember if your squad offsets the balance way to one side, split it to even up a bit. One of the funnest nights I've had in years was a few weeks ago when JG54 and 880 NAS met and fought in the AVA. It was a blast and damn near like the good ole days. If more squads would fly and stick it out, evenn more squads would give it a try.
You don't have to pick a number to wait for a fight, just show little consideration. When a guy is outnumbered you don't have to charge in and make it worse.
You want to be able to use teamwork? Get your squadron in there, and encourgae other squadrons to fly in there. Or check the dang roster if your squad has 4 people in there and there are 4- 5 on the other side... Don't jump a lone con with a fourship. Send one guy down and fly top cover the other guys will be along in just a minute and everybody can fight. If you put numbers in there it draws numbers. If you come in get pissed off and leave after a few minutes, it will always be the same.
If somebody wants to be a cyber tough guy and talk smack to you. Squelch his butt, it's not like you have to squelch 20 or so like in the MA.
Try flying and fighting in the AVA for a few weeks, show some loyalty to the arena, get to know some of the guys who frequent it......... Then start making suggestions to the staff, you can even design some setups and put those before them.
If none of this works and you're miserable with AVA..............Vote with your feet. Leave it and never go back. Don't worry about posting all that's wrong with it, you don't like it anyway, but at least you can say you tried.
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Getting back to the topic at hand - the current numbers are indicative to the fact its' SUMMER aka VACATION SEASON.. :)
People are out BBQ'ing, taking vacation with the family, and enjoying the sun. When the fall/winter hits, #'s will be up again.
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Well said Oldman.
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I think the main reason the numbers are low is that people cant hide. With 10 guys in there every one knows what you do and how you do. It is especially upseting when you get called on it because all 10 now know how you play. I guess the problem is that if like plaing like that, you don't want people to know about it? :rofl I can emagine how it feels to walk in to a bar and all 10 guys in there go "Ohh, here comes the cherrypicking tard. wach your walets guys". This is why the 200 bothers them there and not in the MA.
For some reason, everyone seems to think that with more numbers it would be better in there. I say, look at the MA. That is what large numbers do to an arena.
So, if you are one of those guys that think it is fun to play basketball 8 on 2, please stay away. I cant tell you what to do, but I can tell you you will leave claiming that 200 hurt your feelings. If you like a good 1 on1 3 on 3 or 10 on 10, thne please stop by and check for yourself. Most of the stuff on 200 is directed to people we know anyway and we know they can handle it
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well ppl are on aroujnd 10 pm mostly fridays and wedsnday:aok :aok
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Originally posted by dedalos
I think the main reason the numbers are low is that people cant hide. With 10 guys in there every one knows what you do and how you do. It is especially upseting when you get called on it because all 10 now know how you play. I guess the problem is that if like plaing like that, you don't want people to know about it? :rofl I can emagine how it feels to walk in to a bar and all 10 guys in there go "Ohh, here comes the cherrypicking tard. wach your walets guys". This is why the 200 bothers them there and not in the MA.
For some reason, everyone seems to think that with more numbers it would be better in there. I say, look at the MA. That is what large numbers do to an arena.
So, if you are one of those guys that think it is fun to play basketball 8 on 2, please stay away. I cant tell you what to do, but I can tell you you will leave claiming that 200 hurt your feelings. If you like a good 1 on1 3 on 3 or 10 on 10, thne please stop by and check for yourself. Most of the stuff on 200 is directed to people we know anyway and we know they can handle it
that pretty well sums it up. good post dedalot
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Originally posted by storch
that pretty well sums it up. good post dedalot
Hi honey :D
a very good example of what I am talking about are the exchanges between me and Storcita :rofl
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indeed
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Oldman,
You mentioned a combat theatre that averaged around 50 players a night. Would you mind posting a few details about this arena for the newer folks like myself? Was it an Axis / Allied split, historical terrains, theatre specific plane sets, etc.? Was there strat such as field capture? Why is it no longer around? Did we switch directly from the CT to what we have now or were there a few iterations in between?
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Originally posted by trap2000
You mentioned a combat theatre that averaged around 50 players a night. Would you mind posting a few details about this arena for the newer folks like myself? Was it an Axis / Allied split, historical terrains, theatre specific plane sets, etc.? Was there strat such as field capture? Why is it no longer around? Did we switch directly from the CT to what we have now or were there a few iterations in between?
Heh. Only the name changed, because "Combat Theater" was deemed confusingly similar to "Combat Tour." Other than the name change, the arena itself is the same today as it was then. So far as I can remember, the setups have changed every week since the beginning of time; the staff has been all volunteer; the maps have been made by other volunteers; HTC has generally left the arena to its own management; base capture conditions, radar settings, weather, maps, plane sets, ack lethality, and all of the other variables have changed from week to week depending on the intent of that week's responsible staff member (and the welcome advice of the other staff members and forum participants).
- oldman
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I've dropped in there a few times. Other than the few people, average of 8-10, there was a very small plane set and more than half of those were perked. If all the early planes were somewhat equal and so few folks up why perk them? Let everyone fly anything they want. That way it's always equal no matter how many people are in there....ie, all 8. :)
I also noted there isn't that much of a country allegiance so people seem to change sides to even things up. Sometimes 3v5 or 4v4.
Ren
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I don't recall ever seeing planes perked in CT, or AVA. :confused:
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Originally posted by Shifty
I don't recall ever seeing planes perked in CT, or AVA. :confused:
F4U-4 was but u did not lose the perks if you lost the plane
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Originally posted by dedalos
Hi honey :D
a very good example of what I am talking about are the exchanges between me and Storcita :rofl
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/dichotomy/Stodedwed.jpg)
*ducks and runs out of room chuckling like a drunken troll :D
I am going to soooo pay for that :D
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Thanks for the post Oldman. If the arena itself is the same today as it was then, it would appear that a strat based set up has never been tried. Would the AvA staff be willing to try a strat based set up for a week? I’m going to be honest with you, by strat based I mean game play parallel to the main arenas but with more realistic settings (radar, field capture, etc.) and a historical terrain with a theatre specific plane set. The code of conduct would still stand in concept but not enforced by self appointed guardians. That would be left up to the AvA staff. I would also suggest one addition to the code for the week: No whining. How ‘bout it AvA staffers?
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good thing you mis-spelled storch otherwise my frail ego would have been shattered by that.
:D
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Originally posted by Dichotomy
*ducks and runs out of room chuckling like a drunken troll :D
I am going to soooo pay for that :D
Ohhhhh, you in troble now :furious :furious :furious
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:rofl
note to self don't rush it when trying to be funny :D
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Originally posted by trap2000
Thanks for the post Oldman. If the arena itself is the same today as it was then, it would appear that a strat based set up has never been tried. Would the AvA staff be willing to try a strat based set up for a week? I’m going to be honest with you, by strat based I mean game play parallel to the main arenas but with more realistic settings (radar, field capture, etc.) and a historical terrain with a theatre specific plane set. The code of conduct would still stand in concept but not enforced by self appointed guardians. That would be left up to the AvA staff. I would also suggest one addition to the code for the week: No whining. How ‘bout it AvA staffers?
Strat itself - the effect that bombing factories &c. has on supplies and other things - is generally off in AvA. Base capture usually is possible. In Fork's setup this week, for example, object down time is set at 60 minutes and a capture requires 20 troops (which, I believe, is double that of the MAs). Some setups disable base capture by setting the required number of troops very high, or by disabling troop carrying vehicles, but this is actually quite rare (Battle of Britain comes to mind after a few occasions when the Axis and Allies were all fighting in Wales or some such place). You can grab a few friends and go try to take bases today.
However, the MA win-the-war goal is not possible in the AvA, because if you take all of another country's bases, the arena ceases to function. There is no automatic reset. We can't change this.
- oldman
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Originally posted by trap2000
Thanks for the post Oldman. If the arena itself is the same today as it was then, it would appear that a strat based set up has never been tried. Would the AvA staff be willing to try a strat based set up for a week? I’m going to be honest with you, by strat based I mean game play parallel to the main arenas but with more realistic settings (radar, field capture, etc.) and a historical terrain with a theatre specific plane set. The code of conduct would still stand in concept but not enforced by self appointed guardians. That would be left up to the AvA staff. I would also suggest one addition to the code for the week: No whining. How ‘bout it AvA staffers?
What is a more realistic radar and field capture? Especially field capture? :huh
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used too play there and really liked it
but it aint know fun alone
wish i could find some more people go there with
one time at band camp lol
anyway the mains were down and a v a was up too about 150 or soo
it was very kool
currently
WWeWW
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
I've dropped in there a few times. Other than the few people, average of 8-10, there was a very small plane set and more than half of those were perked. If all the early planes were somewhat equal and so few folks up why perk them? Let everyone fly anything they want. That way it's always equal no matter how many people are in there....ie, all 8. :)
I also noted there isn't that much of a country allegiance so people seem to change sides to even things up. Sometimes 3v5 or 4v4.
Ren
We do not use perk points in the AvA. At one time we give 262s and Temps a small perk but now we just limit what bases they are available. I dont know what you saw but it may have been the result of the arena getting reset for some reason and the setting being porked.
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I didn’t know the arena lacked an automatic reset. That basically eliminates many of the set ups I was thinking about. Think I’ll just stick to flying for awhile. BTW Dedalos, don’t worry too much about radar settings and field capture, especially field capture. I believe my post was pretty clear about those. Over and Out :cool:
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Originally posted by Vudak
With all due respect, TC, trainer or not, that statement of his regarding what most complaints of HOs are led me to believe that he has not had his eyes open all that long.
Perhaps the fact that he was a trainer (and therefore dealing with newer players who wouldn't "know") explains that away, but it still had me saying :huh when I first read it.
Shrug.
Well, since TC let my secret out I will tell you I used to teach a regular course in avoiding Head Ons and turning them to your advantage.
I can teach the basics of this in about 15 minutes but if you want to stop dying in head ons it takes a mental commitment to applying the applicable tactics all the time every time.
I never complain about head ons because I know from long experience if someone catches me in a head on I did something dumb to be there. But if I want to avoid them I can easily do so.
It is simple physics.
I will stick by my earlier statement that a head on is when both pilots have a guns solution. If you see a bandit in the front window and you are maneuvering to avoid his guns pass that isn't a head on. That is a high aspect snapshot and if he kills you there is no difference in that kill from a low aspect shot.
If you aren't maneuvering to avoid his guns pass....you are a target.
If you are maneuvering to create a guns pass on a high aspect bandit and he has a guns solution because he is doing the same thing...that is a head on and both are equally guilty and I see no reason to complain.
We can argue this until the cows come home to no result of course. Just as we can argue the AvA numbers issue forever and 2 days.
Both I have long experience with.
And to the person who posed the question....Yes I'm new and very stupid.
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Originally posted by Slash27
We do not use perk points in the AvA. At one time we give 262s and Temps a small perk but now we just limit what bases they are available. I dont know what you saw but it may have been the result of the arena getting reset for some reason and the setting being porked.
I've never bothered to look, but it's quite possible that the MOTD still lists the perk costs of the planes in issue. One way or the other, you don't actually pay perk points in AvA.
- oldman (there is no means for us to change the perk tables, but we can eliminate the requirement to pay perk points.)
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Originally posted by trap2000
I didn’t know the arena lacked an automatic reset. That basically eliminates many of the set ups I was thinking about. Think I’ll just stick to flying for awhile. BTW Dedalos, don’t worry too much about radar settings and field capture, especially field capture. I believe my post was pretty clear about those. Over and Out :cool:
Well, I just stupid then. Wht is a more realistic field capture? :rofl