Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Movie on July 27, 2007, 03:29:04 PM
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Can u pilots give me some advise for better flying the ki
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don't hit 450 mph or more.
wings will rip off.
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A good bird! I've been flying the Ki-84 for a good portion of the past two months.
As posted above, don't get going that fast, your aierlons come right off and your wings not much later.
Looking at loadouts, I recomend 50% fuel if you'll be staying close to base, add the droptanks for longer flights. I often carry the 2 250kg bombs and in that case I take 75% fuel; plenty to put your eggs on target and loiter for some kills.
Get in close for the cannons. They aren't hizooka's, but you do get plenty of ammo. Nailing a wing or tail in a snapshot at 200 with a few rounds will do the trick.
If you manage your E right and get worse turners trying to follow you can really put the hurt on them by forcing an overshoot and then rolling in behind.
I don't fear niki's near as much as I do in other planes. spits aren't terrible either. If you get any advice on how to beat a decent f4u pilot in one i'd like to hear, they give me all kinds of trouble if they have any alt on me, which is often the case.
I wouldn't recomend taking the Ki-84 very high, lots of stuff outclasses it up in the strato
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Check the power curve, the KI84s best alt is at 21.5k. It has a big power dip in the teens (check the link in my sig for better description) but it does okay.
The guns fire very quickly, so DON'T spray. Ever. You want to scare the guy, fire your 50cals only. Don't fire the cannon until you have a killshot (or a split-second snapshot).
I like taking 75%, but 50% is also good (with DTs).
It's an uber little plane. If you can get the enemy to slow down you can just go nose high and pop your butterfly flaps. Most can't follow you for long.
It's a nice plane as long as the enemy doesn't dive away. Then your fight is over (you can't follow). You can reposition and pick another fight, but you are not able to dictate the end of a fight in that case.
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check this out its kewl
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y3DoLsYB52Q
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The key to the Hayate is not getting caught in a turning fight between 170 and 230 mph. The reason is that at those speeds other planes, like F4Us, can drop flaps and you can't. Once you get slow enough to drop flaps, it turns great in both radius size and in degrees/second. You can fight pretty much anything once you get flaps out. However beware F4Us dropping flaps and turning inside you at 190. Use the Hayate's superior wep/climb to slow the fight down in a climbing spiral, you will soon have them stalling out and you can drop on their head.
Unless BlueKitty is in the F4U, then you're dead.
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I disagree MOSQ. A climbing spiral in the Ki-84 vs the F4U-1/A/C/D is a very dicey prospect unless you know you're dealing with a total newbie and you have enough starting separation. The Corsair may not win the straight climb but her E retention is by FAR superior, (remember: You're not just burning E in the climb, but also from the spiral itself) and even at moderate to low speeds I've left Franks wallowing trying to follow me up. The Hog can maintain a 2500fpm spiral climb almost indefinitely at surprisingly high angles of attack.
The Frank has a better chance of pulling it off vs. the four 1-series Hogs, but DO NOT TRY THIS against the F4U-4. The -4 will eat the Frank alive in ANY vertical maneuvering, as she not only has the superior E retention of the early-models, (with the associated killer zoom climb) but will also run down the Ki-84 in the straight climb.
That said, IMO a well-flown Ki-84 is one of the most dangerous opponents for early-model Hogs, as she turns very well at low speeds and it's hard for them to run on a Frank if they get in trouble. Just remember that most experienced Corsair sticks will know not to get suckered into a low-alt stall fight with the Frank.
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Hurray for speed breaks! If you try to slow down the fight, we can do it better and make you overshoot, then we'll just regain the speed in a shallow dive :D
Did I say too much?
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Well, it's been mentioned so many times in how to FLY the Corsair threads, I'm sure opponents have long known what to watch out for. ;)
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Originally posted by Movie
Can u pilots give me some advise for better flying the ki
Yeah. First and foremost, learn the airplane and know its limits and abilities, as well as its weaknesses.
There's no better way to do this than to fly it in the TA or offline.
The Ki-84 can do fun tail-slides, into a flap spin. Getting out of these is easy when you know the method required. Here's a 5 minute film that may give some hints as what the Ki-84 can do.
Watch in from Fixed view, zoomed all the way in with Trails on. Use the sliders to change view angles.
Ki-84 Fun (http://home.att.net/~ww2aviation/Ki-84Fun.ahf)
My regards,
Widewing
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Greetings,
Was recently at high alt (17k ish) in a 47 N. I thought dragging him higher would be good. Only worked till he got a firiing solution. Then, I had to dive.
Recommendations?
Regards,
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That post was vaguely well... vague.
What exactly were you fighting, and what do you mean by 'worked'? Did you use vertical maneuvers? Horizontal ones? Did you try spiral climbs?
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wats best approach to kill pony d
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Avoid the HO, out turn him. If he dives away don't follow. If you REALLY don't want to let him get away, stay level and follow him at alt. Descend once he turns back or tries to climb back up to you.
Biggest asset the pony has is speed, and you can't follow them past 450. Anything else and you've got 'em dead to rights.
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Movie,
I got a film of a 10 minute dogfight/rolling scissors with a very good Ki-84 pilot named maha and me in a F4U-1 , that went on for ever and a day, last night in the AvsA.....
soon as I find some one to host it and post a link here, I will.......
maybe you can pick up some pointers from his handling of the ki-84.......
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
Movie,
I got a film of a 10 minute dogfight/rolling scissors with a very good Ki-84 pilot named maha and me in a F4U-1 , that went on for ever and a day, last night in the AvsA.....
soon as I find some one to host it and post a link here, I will.......
maybe you can pick up some pointers from his handling of the ki-84.......
as promised, Movie.
here is a film of a ki84 and me in a F4U-1 that seems like the fight last forever and a day....
maha, is the ki84 pilot.. download and watch the film..see if you might can pick up anything on his flying habits.....maeuvering......
hope this helps...or at least is enjoyable to watch..... ~S~ maha, for a most awesomely fun fight
http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/AvsAjuly29th2007_mahaKi84vsTCf4u1_10minutefight.ahf (http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/AvsAjuly29th2007_mahaKi84vsTCf4u1_10minutefight.ahf)
edit: and thanks B@tfink for posting/hosting it for me ~S~
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thx it helped
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great fight TC, really intense. stalemate for 70%. i think you lost alot of ground very early on and then reversed it very smartly to become you chasing the inside line to fall nose down and guns on the bottom of maha's turns. quickly gainingg advantage over a 3 minute period and almost makin the shots. I thought a couple of times you might have reversed your scissor back over and rolled the opposite way with cut throttle, forced a faster stall to gain a solution. a possibility to end that scissor stalemate, but doing so and failing to disable would have probably ended the fight knowing maha and his ability. maha then reverted his tactics and used the ki's climb rate to perfection. alot of good head on passes with cold guns and the final oil hit a good example of a front quarter deflection that may orten be misjudged and called out for being a head on. at that point in a 10 minute fight any solution that isnt directly head on is more than a good idea to stop your arms falling off.
what i noticed the most was your blatant expert ability to control that hog over the top of your rolls. absolutely perfect stall manouvering and correct rudder/elevator/flap control, so that you never lose an inch of ground flopping about and wasting time/energy. beautifull display from both pilots.
S! great stuff.
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That fight WAS quite intense. Very good film, I must say.
B@t, I see how climb rate affects one's scissoring abilities, and as you know, the F4U doesn't climb well. Now before you chop my head off, I'd like to ask how the F4U could beat the Ki-84, since for me, Ki-84's are quite annoying.
Edit: When exactly would you reverse that scissors? It seems quite dicey given the back and forth movement.
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in scissors when you are climbing on one side and enemy is diving on the other side, you force an earlier stall but control it to keep the nose where you want it. the goal being to make a drastic enough change in direction during your stall turn, and lose enough speed ie: horizontal travel so that as the enemy come back up his scissor and you start to dive on yours he cant help but be pulling up infront of your guns.
i will try and search out a clip for you.
but, as i said, TC's flying shows the most impressive patience and test of nerve. to keep those stalling barrel rolls so tight for so long is insanely difficult. as i also said maha has excelent ability and you really dont want to be fighting him in his ki84 no matter what plane youre in. attempting to break the scissors up to win a shot is possible, but fail and you've definitely lost. TC held on perfectly in a difficult fight for the f4u, and quite possibly could have made his solutions near the 8min mark a winning move. once ki84 saw this close call it took advantage of the energy TC had had to lose.
so either way, its a very tough call on the f4u if the ki84 is on the job.
edit: also, dont forget to take advantage of the ki84 at mid range speeds that it cannot deploy its flaps. even so a good ki pilot might be working the throttle and trim at those times to combat you back.
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the pony D pilot shouldnt have all that much trouble with the ki unless he is flying way to slowly, even an experienced pony pilot will be on his toes in a slow speed / stall fight
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Hose:
As noted in the F4U vs Ki-84s you want to keep the fight in a mid- to high-speed range where your high-speed handling is far superior. If you have altitude to work with try fighting nose-low until you get the airspeed you need. If he tries to pull you into a rolling scissors (this also works both in and against ANY aircraft, too) don't try to make a pure pursuit. When you pull up into the vertical don't reverse for the downward leg immediately. Either immelmann out if you have sufficient airspeed, or use the opportunity to get some vertical seperation. Very likely your opponent will now disengage from the scissors in an attempt to regain energy or reposition himself and give you and opportunity to kick inside rudder and nose over right onto his tail (I've used this with great effect against Ki-84s, as well as Spixteens).
The climbing spiral CAN and WILL work in F4Us against Ki-84s, provided you have enough starting separation to bleed off all his E (600-800yds minimum. If he's already in gun range your best option is full power WEP diving spiral to the deck).
As stated: Remember the F4U's first two notches of flaps deploy at much higher speeds than the Ki-84's, and in that moment you WILL out turn him by a significant margin. Time your deployment properly and the first notch should haul your nose around enough for a shot. Just remember he's not going to light up like a Zeke or lose his tail as easily as an N1K2 so you need to give him a good solid burst.
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as that fight between maha and I, drew on........I was beginning to over fly the F4U pushing it ( pushing meaning forcing it more than flying with finese/precision) because I saw where I intially lost alot of ground , in which B@tfink mentioned above, then slowly gained it back to where I finally got a decent shot at him and blew it....once I blew the shot I started looking for the 1st chance to get him rolling away to where I could break and run..to me this is where I messed up.......I gave up on the rolling scissors to soon........
knowing how fast the Ki-84 can accelerate I needed to time the break away perfectly for maximum extending distance, yet I never got past 1.0K before he quickly started to gain on me..this point in the film, maha got smart and started working the vertical on me where he had built his speed back up to do so ( do so meaning going vertical maneuvering ) to where I was assuming/expecting us to go back into another rolling scissors. Instead maha begins hi yoyos or somewhat doing a luffberry maneuver and gains the angles advantage on me quicker......
what ifs never come to past to see if infact staying with the initial rolling scissors would have paid off for me........I took my 1 chance shot, blew the shot and gave up to try something different, had the rolling scissors went on another 2 or so minutes I might have got him / or I might not have...we will never know.......
if you fighting a P51D against a ki-84 you best stay above the 170/180 mph mark.......I would even say you best stay above the 225 mph mark and keep the fight above this speed if you are in the P51D against the Ki-84......if you get slow like the film shows, the Ki-84 is gonna walk the dog all over the P51D.......if pilots are near equal skill
flying that slow in any plane is not desirable, and is not advised to do so.but how else can you learn what your plane is capable of if you do not test the waters? you just might find yourself in a fight like that at one time or another, and if you have never been there / that slow in a knife fight, then you will not be there for more than a few seconds the 1st time you get into a situation like that......
thank you B@tfink for the kind words, and glad others enjoyed the film as well....... but I truly do not believe I flew to my best potential in this film, at time I did, but at other times I was rushing & forcing the plane instead of flying the plane........I can see it when I view the film anyhow........but that is what "in the heat fo battle" means right?
;)
Note* I do not want to take anything away from maha, he flew a great fight and out flew me, and won....... I just wish for a fight like this at least once a week ............now that would keep me playing til I leave this place.......
freezman, I am trying to understand your post and what you are saying?
edit: ah yes sir, you're right ,
sorry let me rephrase if the pony has a decent energy advantage and equal pilots the ki is gonna be in trouble. but in a slow fight even a seasoned pony pilot will have trouble against an equal or lesser opponent
maybe have trouble with an equally skilled or similar skilled opponent, not to sure about it if the opponent is of lesser skill.........the ki84 is no zero or spitfire.......
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sorry let me rephrase if the pony has a decent energy advantage and equal pilots the ki is gonna be in trouble. but in a slow fight even a seasoned pony pilot will have trouble against an equal or lesser opponent
hope that helps
o and btw well done to the both of you on that fight
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
I just wish for a fight like this at least once a week ............now that would keep me playing til I leave this place.......
anytime im online we can go DA or TA some :) i almost always auger in the MA for a good 1 on 1. cant perform quite as well as maha but i'll give you something difficult to shoot at whenever youre bored.