Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: WMLute on July 29, 2007, 04:05:43 PM
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There is a really good chance that we will be creating a CM sponsored Dual Ladder in the Special Events Arena.
For starters it will be a 1 on 1, pre-registered event we run once a month. Maybe at the end of the year we will have a Championship Match. (w/ trophy maybe) If this catches on we can expand it to 2 vs. 2 or even 4 vs. 4.
I would like everybodys input on how they envision the dual ladder would be.
Rules.
Setup.
etc, etc...
I have been kicking around with some of the potential "rules"
-Best of 3 fights. (tho' best of 5 would prob. be ok too)
-Pre-set merge alt capped. (i.e. 6k merge means you can't climb to 8k and zoom down to 6k. It would mean you can't go over 6k before the merge)
-No firing on the 1st pass (merge)
-You can extend for 30 seconds but after that would have to reverse and merge.
Auger = loose (unless you crash before the initial merge)
Feel free to add anything you think should be added.
I would also like map ideas. Something basic that the CM Map Team can make super easy.
I ALSO have considered using a bracketing system as opposed to the ladder. Pre-set matchups. Win the round, move on to the next untill we get a final 2 for the monthly championship.
If this is something you would be interested, please post here.
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-Winner picks ride.
-Crash at same time redo
-Collision Redo
-Any plane can be picked
-Egos dropped at the door
Map Idea.
- total of 6 bases.
Set up sorta like KOTH map.
2 bases would be low alt bases say 2k like 23 24 in DA.
2 bases would high alt like 3 and 4 in the DA
2 bases would be over the water at a mid alt level say 6k take off.
Mabey have 1 set of the bases in a canyon or very hilly area.
Mabey 1 set of basis in a Pit (KOTH map)
Have the other set in just plane flat land
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This event is essentially about overall pilot performance. Collisions should be a part of that performance ability. Accidents happen. You are the pilot in control, avoid the accident.
/.02
:aok
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What Rep0man said.
If collision = redo you might as well turn them off entirely. Some folks may actually try to collide if they feel they are at a disadvantage during a fight, so they can get a new chance.
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Ok ya I agree. I see your point.
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I think a Brackett system would be better than a ladder....IMO
Best of Five Moves on....
Leave Collisions on...
Loser chooses next plane...
Where do we register? :D
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Ya I'm more drawn to the bracket.
Here is a VERY VERY roughly done very basic map idea.
KISS Keep it stupid simple.
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m238/Goldelks/Map.jpg)
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So is the loser of a collision the guy who hits the ground first?
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The one who dies first is the one to lose. Just like in any combat. The reason for the death is pretty irrelvant, except when being a result of a rules violation (for example firing at first merge)
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There needs to be a rule or a no rule for the 2nd merge.
This way, if after the first merge, both guys swing nose in on eachother and one guy fires, and the other guy doesn't, there won't be any hissy fits about a HO.
Other than that, i'm looking foward to signing up.
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In Ladders Ive been in its not against the rule ever to ho after the 1st merge. Its highly frowned upon but not against the rules. Imagen how many fights there would be about that was a ho! no it wasnt! etc etc on the BBS.
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Originally posted by Speed55
There needs to be a rule or a no rule for the 2nd merge.
This way, if after the first merge, both guys swing nose in on eachother and one guy fires, and the other guy doesn't, there won't be any hissy fits about a HO.
Other than that, i'm looking foward to signing up.
If you get Ho'ed on second merge, you clearly did something wrong.
Also we would see a lot of debates like "that wasn't a HO!"
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Wat is Lusche doing in this thread? He duels? :D :p
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Originally posted by Lusche
If you get Ho'ed on second merge, you clearly get something wrong.
Not nessesarily Lusche.
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Originally posted by Platano
Not nessesarily Lusche.
It's my own responsibility to stay out of my enemy's guns arc.
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Originally posted by Platano
Wat is Lusche doing in this thread? He duels? :D :p
Occasionally, but not with that braggin' mine-is-bigger-than-yours CH200 jockeys :D
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Originally posted by Lusche
If you get Ho'ed on second merge, you clearly did something wrong.
Platano hes obviously not a dueler lol.
Hehe lusche
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Originally posted by Lusche
It's my own responsibility to stay out of my enemy's guns arc.
and sometimes in the second merge if you "stay out of my enemy;s guns arc" you jus giving the separation he needs for him to put you in his guns on the next pass.
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Originally posted by Platano
and sometimes in the second merge if you "stay out of my enemy;s guns arc" you jus giving the separation he needs for him to put you in his guns on the next pass.
I guess that's when skill comes into play.
I can fully understand the "no fire at first pass rule" but everything after that is, in my opinion, fighting with a safety net.
Your mileage may vary, and my opinion my even be a minority one ;)
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Originally posted by Husky01
Ya I'm more drawn to the bracket.
Here is a VERY VERY roughly done very basic map idea.
KISS Keep it stupid simple.
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m238/Goldelks/Map.jpg)
Btw forgot to say the bases would be just under 1 sector away from each other. Gives you enough time to get speed but not to much speed.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Tournamentbracket.png)
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a bracket tourney.
Working on map ideas.
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the bracket idea sounds most excelent
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I've dueled before.
I'd just like there to be a rule saying "after the first merge, anything goes."
This way there wont be any confusion by someone about a high angle deflection, or what someone might call a HO.
This way, if you beat someone fair, and they come on 200 and say nice HO or whatever, you can just say - read rule # 2.
See, with lag sometimes you might think the other guy has no shot other than a HO, but on his front end he's aiming at your belly and tail.
You did that to me once husky on the 1st merge f4u vs f4u. I know what happened so i didn't complain, but some people get crazy over shots like that and start to :cry
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Why would you want dual ladders? Wouldn't one be enough? ;)
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i spent a solid 2 months dueling with domin and bighorn, roultox benny etc... in late april to may had a blast and learned how to hold an organized duel since then i have dueled many others and i think this idea would support growth in organized dueling
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(and yeah, I typo'd on the Duel vs Dual. my bad. It's been 2hours. Skuzzy, could ya' fix the thread name to Duel?)
An Idea was presented to me about having SET planes for each round.
i.e. (random planes picked here for the example)
Round 1: p40-e
Round 2: 109g6
Round 3: a6m5
Round 4: yak9u
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Maybe pick the planes randomly?
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BumP.
Anything Lute?
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I'm still waiting to hear back from a CM team member about putting this together as a tourney with brackets.
I envision a once a month match, kinda like KOTH is now, that is pre-registered so you know who you up against in the 1st round.
I like the idea of random plane picks for the various rounds.
I am torn between random picks the day of, so nobody know's what they flying, and picking the planes ahead of time so you know what you are flying in each round. I personally am leaning towards the planes being randomly picked ahead of time.
I am also waiting to hear back about a map for the event.
The map shouldn't take long to throw together, as with the KOTH map, I feel less is best and keeping it simple.
I want this to be a registered event, but I may allow for a walk on or two in a wild card spot.
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I think It should be random plane picks of the day...
This way no one knows what they will be flying until the times comes to start the match...
Kinda more interesting this way...
This way no one can have an advatage by choosing a plane they normally fly...
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Originally posted by Platano
I think It should be random plane picks of the day...
This way no one knows what they will be flying until the times comes to start the match...
Kinda more interesting this way...
This way no one can have an advatage by choosing a plane they normally fly...
That was exactly my thinking about it.
BUT.
If the players knew in advance what they were flying, and took the time to learn that plane by flying it more in preperation, shouldn't they be rewarded?
Both way's have their pro's and con's.
Also... i'm trying to pick a DAY or NIGHT to do this event.
I guess we could pick an off Saturday night once a month, maybe early enough for the Euro Types?
Opinions?
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Originally posted by WMLute
That was exactly my thinking about it.
BUT.
If the players knew in advance what they were flying, and took the time to learn that plane by flying it more in preperation, shouldn't they be rewarded?
Both way's have their pro's and con's.
Also... i'm trying to pick a DAY or NIGHT to do this event.
I guess we could pick an off Saturday night once a month, maybe early enough for the Euro Types?
Opinions?
If you want any new blood to enter into the duels you should announce planeset beforehand. However if you want to keep it more for just the vets then keep it a mystery.
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First off the bracket tourney looks much more interesting to me than a ladder.
As long as the pilots names are randomly drawn and matched so everyone has an equal chance to draw an easy kill like myself or a tough one like blukitty.
Also, make it best of 5, contest gives you 3 planes, each pilot picks one plane, not to include any plane already chosen by the contest.
IE if contest says p38, p47, and p51d are the 3 planes the pilot could choose the p51b for his plane but not the p51d, as its already been chosen.
If you want to get real fancy, signup web page would also have a poll for your top 3 picks for plane choice. Then on game day you pick the most voted for 3 planes. People would be told what the planes are right before match.
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I think that its best to say no rules. You meet in space, what happens next happens.
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Originally posted by Kami
If you want any new blood to enter into the duels you should announce planeset beforehand. However if you want to keep it more for just the vets then keep it a mystery.
Another method already mentioned by someone earlier in this thread: Regardless how the intitial plane is chosen (vote, gentleman agreement, CM Team pick or random), the player who just lost a round picks the plane for the next one.
That way lesser skilled/experienced players can chose a plane they may be comfortable with, while those veteran crack pilots have to show some flexibility.
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If your going to do it as a tournament make it only 3 rounds. I cant stand 4 hours in the DA. Its way to repetitive for me....
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Originally posted by WMLute
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Tournamentbracket.png)
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a bracket tourney.
Working on map ideas.
i have been so waiting for something like this,
i am psyched !!!!!!!!!
i think the planes should be randomly chosen.
but only fighters NO duel engine.
Duels should be at least 3 out of 5 to achive win.
after first pass ANYTHING goes Except breaking alt cap and such.
Colisions should be on.
first merge should have strict rules to make it even as possable. much like a drag race
(in DA some dive down at first pass some fly straight)
Done this way the better pilot should win every time.
this is gonna be fun kill you Gents there I mean see you Gents there
:D
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Originally posted by ink
but only fighters NO duel engine.
I would think a duel engine would be perfect for a duel...
:D
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Originally posted by ink
but only fighters NO duel engine.
I hope no one from SAPP see's this....:lol
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Originally posted by WMLute
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Tournamentbracket.png)
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a bracket tourney.
Working on map ideas.
Ill dual both Monica and Lisa at the same time if you dont mind.
Pleeeeeaaaseeee?:D
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Be nice to also clarify if 6K merge means both cons at 6K when entering icon range, or if they have to pass wingtips (9-3 line) at 6K +/- 100 feet before diving or climbing. That's caused controversy in the past and should be set in stone.
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All the Ideas are good imo. One thing I was thinking for the TOC at the end of the year was to add Wind into the mix. Best of the Best should be able to handle there plane in wind conditions. Now I not talking hurricane/ tornado speeds. Talking about your typical everyday wind and also being random at different alt levels.
Planes I believe should be selected by the loser. First plane picked by CM/random plane.
Guns are cold for intial merge, after that guns go blazing.
Maps I believe should have trees/ cannons and such, not just water. This allows a fight in the bush and adding excitement to the fight watching out for trees, hehehehe.
Wish CM's could turn Icons off to make it even more realistic. No range/names, nothing. (maybe soon)
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Originally posted by AKDogg
Wish CM's could turn Icons off to make it even more realistic. No range/names, nothing. (maybe soon)
Give me a display with a "realistic" resolution first. While we all have to cope with various types of displays and resolutions ranging from crappy 800X600 to still crappy 1600 and similar, I'll stick with icons.
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Originally posted by Husky01
In Ladders Ive been in its not against the rule ever to ho after the 1st merge. Its highly frowned upon but not against the rules. Imagen how many fights there would be about that was a ho! no it wasnt! etc etc on the BBS.
There has never been any "frowned on" about any FQ shot after the 1st merge in any decent ladder. If you can get around 1st you do...if not you deny the shot or take your chances.There is almost no such thing as a true HO on a remerge. One guy or the other gets around 1st....now whether that guy hits or not is a seperate question as is whether he flys for the shot on remerge or suddenly see's the other guy is and pulls around late.
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the only concern with a bracket I can see is the amount of bases needed to have that many concurrent fights going on.
you don't want to have guys just sitting around for a long time getting bored.
Imagine if oh.... 75 people showed up?
would you do 2 brackets like the NCAA tourney?
who chooses which side someone is on?
will someone whine "I got put in a bracket with XXXX and that guy YYYY had a total n00b bracket" ?
If this IS a sponsored event, all duels taking place in 1 arena on 1 day starting at oh 12:00 EST you can imagine there may be alot of people who pop in just to check it out.
what about odd numbers? does someone get a "bye" ?
just some concerns. the old ladders were that, ladders. it would take a month to get some real results. if you were to set up a real ladder with challenges and what not, it should have some "in game" implementation IMHO. you log into an arena and get a pop up "you have been challenged by XXX" or something. a scoring page would also be needed.
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Sounds like fun...sry Ill miss it
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Originally posted by RedTop
Sounds like fun...sry Ill miss it
:huh
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Originally posted by Husky01
:huh
RT is in the process of moving and will be spectating for a bit....
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Originally posted by humble
RT is in the process of moving and will be spectating for a bit....
Thank you
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The one thing I've never seen in a ladder is a historical matchup vs same plane. I'd like to see a historical setup (sometime, somewhere) something like this....
109E vs SpitI
F4F vs A6Ma2
F4U-D vs Ki-84
P47D11 vs 190a5
p-38g vs 109G6
I just picked 5 that I believe are historical mainstays (feel free to correct me). Each set would be best of 3 with "choice" rotating if needed (if tied after each flies both). This would be a much better test of skills is some ways as well as being a closer fit to the historic "realities"....
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Originally posted by humble
The one thing I've never seen in a ladder is a historical matchup vs same plane. I'd like to see a historical setup (sometime, somewhere) something like this....
109E vs SpitI
F4F vs A6Ma2
F4U-D vs Ki-84
P47D11 vs 190a5
p-38g vs 109G6
I just picked 5 that I believe are historical mainstays (feel free to correct me). Each set would be best of 3 with "choice" rotating if needed (if tied after each flies both). This would be a much better test of skills is some ways as well as being a closer fit to the historic "realities"....
Interesting! I dont really like to Da that much anymore. I find that the DA is very repetitive and only shows one aspect of the game. Having different plane match ups brings in a new factor in the fight. You cant fight a zeke like a 190 and a 190 like a zeke. It will be a great "wild card" of a pilot knowledge of the game.
Make a wheel with all the different match ups, spin it and announce the next plane set for each round. It could be that easy..
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Originally posted by Husky01
Thank you
Yeah...sry man...
My wife and I are selling our house and having a new one built. At least thats the plan....SO we have to get the current house ready for the market.
Between working nights and stuff....my flying time is DEFINATLEY gonna be minimal.....And...if we sell the house sonner than we expect we may be without internet for a few months until the house is finished.
Until I have to break down the puter desks and setup...I'll be trying to fly when I can.....but house is first.
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Red you need a Realtor :D
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Originally posted by FX1
Red you need a Realtor :D
DANGIT!!!!! I forgot you were a realtor. I have a family member in the Title business. She's vice president of one and she put me with a realtor she knows very well.
Man I wish I had thought of it.
Who do you work for or with?
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Prudential Texas
No problem (: It would be nice to have a client that plays the game.
Have you just started?
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PM otw...
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first of all..
I am #1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well one day I was....I will keep my eyes open for this lute
Ahh the day of smacking shane down..and hearing him cry about my connact was ..well..made me crack a smile..
and REDTOP!!!!
MAKE SURE YOU STAGE YOUR HOME!!!!...Our folks have had a HUGE Increase when staging homes..Make s a BIG differnce in that First Impression...
if you ever have any questions feel free to ask anytime..Just recently moved up to my brokers license; ) weee
http://www.wurth.golyon.com