Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Trell on July 29, 2007, 10:51:02 PM
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Guess it is just not those evil Muslims that do this....
Maybe this should be titled "What We Won't Let some Christians Teach Us"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/26/AR2007072600722.html?nav=hcmodule (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/26/AR2007072600722.html?nav=hcmodule)
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These "Christians" they are talking about here... are they followers of Christ or are they some people labled as "christian" ? Seems like bashing Christianity is becoming the in thing to do. Are you really that insecure about yourself Trell?
Mark
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Difference between Christians and Muslims is, I'll come right out and say what they did was wrong and they are right where they should be....in jail. Christ's teachings don't condone this sort of behavior.
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I lived in Indonesia.
It is not about religion so much as it is a war. If you do nothing the gangs of Muslims wipe you out. If you respond in kind the gangs of Muslims lose support from the villagers and they weaken.
The biggest deterrent to killing is the knowledge that you will be punished if you do. The two religions coexist when each is aware of that fact. Else the radicals win and one is wiped out.
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Originally posted by Mark Luper
These "Christians" they are talking about here... are they followers of Christ or are they some people labled as "christian" ? Seems like bashing Christianity is becoming the in thing to do. Are you really that insecure about yourself Trell?
Mark
Bashing any religion seems to be the thing to do. The only difference is the bashers of the Muslims seem to be the defenders of the Christians. I don't believe these are "good" Christians, the same way i don't believe all the Muslims blowing up stuff are "good" Muslims
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if you come into my neighborhood, kill or rape then drag off my friends and I know for certain where you live, guess what.
it's pretty easy to point fingers from the relative safety of a western european or american society, especially america where we are well intergrated and the moslems who came here like it here. what many of us fail to understand is that in places that are moslem governed the only thing people understand is that if you intend to harm me I will retaliate. if I am able to retaliate ten fold so much the better. if you kill mine I will kill all of yours, your friends your dogs your hens your goats your camels and your fleas. if you are out numbered ten to one you have to be more ruthless than the ten if you expect to survive. the moslem governments in those types of countries will always side with the moslem murderers. that statement has beem amply proven throughout all of moslemdom since the middle ages.
I say good on those christians. that's the way things are done in those places. the aggressors always set the tone of a fight. that should teach those moslems that jihad can be a cross cultural tenet.
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I have a close friend that spent 4 years in Indonesia working as a teacher/Missionary. She never had these problems you seem to think are everywhere in that evil Muslim country...
Maybe it is just as easy to think every one not Christian as Evil?
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trell... what it is easy for logical people to see is...
it is easy to see numbers and results is what it is easy to see.
ok.. we got 12 christians out of... how many? who are cheekbones killers...
Now.. lets compare that with suicide bomber muslims and terrorists.... out of... how many?
in each case.. you are talking a small amount percentage wise... It is just that on a grand scale... you are thousands of times more likely to be killed by a muslim fanatic than a christian one.
In almost all civilized countries... you have no fear of christians but.. a muslim terrorist killing you is a real possibility... they do it on a regular basis in almost every civilized country... using 9th century ideals they will not comprimise on.
in craphole backward countries... all bets are off... everyone is looking for an excuse to kill everyone else. religion is just their excuse.
lazs
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Trell
The fact you don't mention the island she was on show me you know very little about the subject.
Indonesia is not one big homogeneous country. It is a whole bunch of islands with totally different peoples living on each one.
If you knew anything about the island in question you would know that the people there were Christian and the people who are Muslim were trans-migrants settled there in the last few decades.
It is a volatile mix.
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Originally posted by Habu
Trell
The fact you don't mention the island she was on show me you know very little about the subject.
Indonesia is not one big homogeneous country. It is a whole bunch of islands with totally different peoples living on each one.
If you knew anything about the island in question you would know that the people there were Christian and the people who are Muslim were trans-migrants settled there in the last few decades.
It is a volatile mix.
Im's Sorry I Didn't know you asked me what island she was on. You did ask that right?
Ohh look you also didn't say what island you were on either. Were you talking about the whole country in your post of just the Island you were on..
Just as you said, it is not one big homogeneous country.
But then Neither is the United States.
Btw because you just asked now, She was in Bandung
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I lived on 3 islands when I was there (Kalimantan Java and Sumatra). I also knew of other places I would not step foot in if you payed me. Your friends opinion based on her experiences in Bandung are not relavent to what is happening on Sulawesi.
My original post is totally valid.
Your friends opinion about Indonesia has no relevance to what is happening in Sulawesi. If she lived there she would know better what is going on there.
I worked for a multinational with employees from all over Indonesia working for me. I knew what was happening because they explained to me the situations that I saw in the news. I also travelled all over the place and have run a business importing from there for the past 15 years.
Your friend worked for a church/charity and would have no contact with anyone outside of the island people she was working with. I am sure in her corner of the country the people were nice.
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Originally posted by lazs2
trell... what it is easy for logical people to see is...
it is easy to see numbers and results is what it is easy to see.
ok.. we got 12 christians out of... how many? who are cheekbones killers...
Now.. lets compare that with suicide bomber muslims and terrorists.... out of... how many?
in each case.. you are talking a small amount percentage wise... It is just that on a grand scale... you are thousands of times more likely to be killed by a muslim fanatic than a christian one.
In almost all civilized countries... you have no fear of christians but.. a muslim terrorist killing you is a real possibility... they do it on a regular basis in almost every civilized country... using 9th century ideals they will not comprimise on.
in craphole backward countries... all bets are off... everyone is looking for an excuse to kill everyone else. religion is just their excuse.
lazs
This is spot on, no wonder Trell "chose to look past this one".
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I was not going to mention to him that Bandung is a town in Java and not an Island either.
Do a google on Transmigration Indonesia and I am sure you will get most of the background to the events that happend with the Christians.
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I was checking out their sentences-What you get for Armed robbery or other medium-severity crimes in the U.S., Is what murder rates in Indonesia.
14 years' for murder, with a terr. conviction tied on it to boot, is pretty light.
When I first read it, I thought they were getting the death penalty or something.
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Originally posted by Habu
I was not going to mention to him that Bandung is a town in Java and not an Island either.
Do a google on Transmigration Indonesia and I am sure you will get most of the background to the events that happend with the Christians.
Thought you would know enough that I named a city and not an island. you did say you lived there... That also Keeps me from having to respond with the city she lived in after. i named the island . There are places in almost any country that i would not step foot on including PLaces in the state I live.
As I said you generalized the whole country in your post. then Yell and scream when I do the same thing.
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Christians are prosecuted or discriminated against in most Muslim countries. If not all. If you dont believe me then jump on an airplane to "over there", hang a crucifix around your neck, and walk down the street reading a Bible. In many countries you wont make it a block with your head, or if your lucky you'll just get a Police beating.
I know, I was there.
And during those charming 18 mos, on Uncle Sam's tit, a buddy of mine. a christian, married a Muslim girl and they had an APT off-base in town. He went home one night with a friend and a dozen locals were in the APT waiting for him. They threw the both of them off the 4'th floor balcony because my buddy married Muslim. This was almost 30 years ago.
True story.
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God is Great......blah blah blah
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Originally posted by Yeager
God is Great......blah blah blah
I'm Catholic, he is Great. But, for me my Religious Beliefs are private or shared with my Son, Wife and noone else.
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trell,
It was your post and your assertion.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
But, for me my Religious Beliefs are private or shared with my Son, Wife and noone else.
And probably God.
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Originally posted by Fulmar
And probably God.
If I choose. Again, it starts and ends with me.
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Originally posted by Trell
Guess it is just not those evil Muslims that do this....
Maybe this should be titled "What We Won't Let some Christians Teach Us"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/26/AR2007072600722.html?nav=hcmodule (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/26/AR2007072600722.html?nav=hcmodule)
Didnt have to read father then the first paragraph.
Looks to me like they actually have the right idea
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There was a war going between the muslims and christians there with thousands killed. Wonder how many muslims were jailed for murdering christians?
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if someone (muslims) are attacking and killing your people you must fight back and take the offensive whenever and wherever you can.
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Originally posted by AKIron
There was a war going between the muslims and christians there with thousands killed. Wonder how many muslims were jailed for murdering christians?
Assuming your responding to me. Though I may be incorrect in that assumption.
Let me restate. Or rather clarify if I may.
I think its the Christians that had the right idea
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Assuming your responding to me. Though I may be incorrect in that assumption.
Let me restate. Or rather clarify if I may.
I think its the Christians that had the right idea
clearly, but I would remove "christians" and replace it with displaced people. the moslems are rapidly displacing anyone who will not submit to their creed and they seem to have no problems with putting entire villages to the sword, or ak47 as it were.
we forget that we live cozy lives in a posh land and we can be soft and sloppy. this is simply not the case with 80% of humanity.
only here can there be a national debate over what some overpaid guy who can run fast and catch a ball does with his dogs or chickens.
the reactions to stuff like the dog thing would be laughable were it not so incredibly stupid.
moslems wipe out entire other religion's villages every day in africa and the far east yet you see nothing on the national news.
the only clear "outrage" over moslem actions that I can recall was way back when the taliban destroyed some buddhist icons in afghanistan some seven or so years ago. the liberals were all aghast over the loss of these irreplacable art treasures but in typical liberal fashion not a word over the thousands, tens of thousands put to death by the moslems.
so yes let's worry about dead chickens and dogs or defaced religious art, never mind the thousands murdered, that is of course unless a few of them successfully fight fire with fire. why the very nerve of those "christians".
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What really irks me about these Musilms is the way they treat their women...as chattel. It's legal there though so Storch is probably okay with that.
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why would I consider a fellow human being to be chattel?
I like my moslem neighbors but I loathe the moslem religion.
having typed that allow me to remind you and perhaps myself as well that if we were to visit agra, india we can there see a monument, the testament of a moslem man to his undying love of his favorite wife, mumtaz mahal who died in childbirth bearing him their fourteenth child. legend has it that soon after the completion of the monument, the mausoleum known as taj mahal he followed her to the grave.
an example of a woman as chattel or? the moslems I know are devoted to their wives and their families as much as you or I.
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lol
You demonise them in one post and then glorify them in another. You are something else Storch. You just can't seem to make up your mind about anything.
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Originally posted by storch
clearly, but I would remove "christians" and replace it with displaced people. the moslems are rapidly displacing anyone who will not submit to their creed and they seem to have no problems with putting entire villages to the sword, or ak47 as it were.
we forget that we live cozy lives in a posh land and we can be soft and sloppy. this is simply not the case with 80% of humanity.
only here can there be a national debate over what some overpaid guy who can run fast and catch a ball does with his dogs or chickens.
the reactions to stuff like the dog thing would be laughable were it not so incredibly stupid.
moslems wipe out entire other religion's villages every day in africa and the far east yet you see nothing on the national news.
the only clear "outrage" over moslem actions that I can recall was way back when the taliban destroyed some buddhist icons in afghanistan some seven or so years ago. the liberals were all aghast over the loss of these irreplacable art treasures but in typical liberal fashion not a word over the thousands, tens of thousands put to death by the moslems.
so yes let's worry about dead chickens and dogs or defaced religious art, never mind the thousands murdered, that is of course unless a few of them successfully fight fire with fire. why the very nerve of those "christians".
The reasoning can be summerised perfectly with the old line..
"You show me a story DOG BITES MAN. Thats not news.
You show me a story MAN BITES DOG. Now that is news"
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Originally posted by Curval
lol
You demonise them in one post and then glorify them in another. You are something else Storch. You just can't seem to make up your mind about anything.
no my mind is made up about islam but I'm reticent to tar them all with the same brush. I've met too many people who have changed my mind at the individual level.
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Originally posted by storch
no my mind is made up about islam but I'm reticent to tar them all with the same brush. I've met too many people who have changed my mind at the individual level.
They couldn't have been those pesky ones in africa and the far east that changed your mind though right? Or did "islam" commit the murders you describe?
"moslems wipe out entire other religion's villages every day in africa and the far east"
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It's amazing how quickly a thread about christian mass murderers turned into one about muslim attrocities.
There's a curious blindness on this board about that, if a christian kills someone, he's either:
A: Not a real christian
or
B: Just fighting back
If it's a muslim who kills someone,
A: It's further proof that they are barbarians
and
B: See A.
I'm no "muslim apologist", but I see hypocricy and double standards here, as if christianity and all who follow it were perfect (divine, if you will) while the bloodthirsty muslim savages are all sub-human animals, barely worthy of the energy it takes to cut their heathen heads off.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
It's amazing how quickly a thread about christian mass murderers turned into one about muslim attrocities.
There's a curious blindness on this board about that, if a christian kills someone, he's either:
A: Not a real christian
or
B: Just fighting back
If it's a muslim who kills someone,
A: It's further proof that they are barbarians
and
B: See A.
I'm no "muslim apologist", but I see hypocricy and double standards here, as if christianity and all who follow it were perfect (divine, if you will) while the bloodthirsty muslim savages are all sub-human animals, barely worthy of the energy it takes to cut their heathen heads off.
And when atheists kill millions they are?
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It's amazing how quickly a thread about christian mass murderers turned into one about muslim attrocities.
There's a curious blindness on this board about that, if a christian kills someone, he's either:
A: Not a real christian
or
B: Just fighting back
If it's a muslim who kills someone,
A: It's further proof that they are barbarians
and
B: See A.
I'm no "muslim apologist", but I see hypocricy and double standards here, as if christianity and all who follow it were perfect (divine, if you will) while the bloodthirsty muslim savages are all sub-human animals, barely worthy of the energy it takes to cut their heathen heads off.
This is because:
A: Christians are only supposed to kill in self defence, and really not even then.
B:Christians are supposed to "turn the other cheek".
Muslims:
A: Condone fighting or "jihad", even in offence.
B: The few that don't aren't very outspoken, and are criticized by the rest of their peers.
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I think you may have misunderstood my meaning. the moslems that I have come to know in my community have changed my perspective a bit.
the moslem aggression against buddhist, christians and members of the b'hai faith goes unchecked. I sympathize with those who retaliate against the moslems.
islam is an awful religion. there are people who are "moslem" because that is what their families were just as there are people who are "christian" for the same reason. people here are far more secularized and not actually practicing members of either religion.
I had a conversation about religion with a lebanese moslem today and his conclusion is that islam is an old, bloody and dirty religion and his last words were "as they all are". it's hard to refute that logic
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A: Not a real christian
Sometimes folks are labeled as Christian when they don't actually follow the Christian faith. Example, some think Jim Jones and David Koresh were Christians, not so, they were merely pretenders that used the Christian faith to further their own agendas.
The gentleman Storch spoke with is labeled as a muslim, yet he doesn't follow the muslim faith so how can he actually be a muslim?
I'm no "muslim apologist", but I see hypocricy and double standards here, as if christianity and all who follow it were perfect (divine, if you will)
Any Christian will tell you that not one of us is perfect and most certainly not divine.