Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Chairboy on July 30, 2007, 04:59:18 PM
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http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1886.asp
Berkeley is preparing to modify their laws so that their red light cameras can be used as general surveillance devices. I pshawed this specific threat a few years ago in another thread because I assumed the red light cams were only active when taking pictures of an offender, but I submit that I was mistaken.
This is a trojan horse of sorts, because it's part of setting a precedent that can be copied nationally by other cities to do the same thing. There is a rich history of evidence that backs the assertion that expanded government powers, no matter how originally well intentioned, are eventually abused and or used to strip liberties from citizens.
I understand the argument that "there is no expectation of privacy in public", but I feel the centralization by technology has lowered the bar for what this entails. An officer on the beat, walking down the street seeing what's happening is different from an officer that can watch 10 streets at once while a computer scans all license plates for warrants, expired tags, etc. Technology is gradually making the idea of a police state easier, and making it so that many fewer officers are required.
Is the direction we're heading as a society in-line with what our founding fathers would have wanted? If not, is it in-line with what we as citizens want? I think the long term consequences are at odds with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
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Again.
Why people dont simply snipe these thnigs is beyond me.
Fill a paintball wiht BIN Shellac based primer and snipe em.
Once that stuff dries they aint getting it clean again
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they have been in use in broward county for some time. they don't seem to work though.
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Why to be so scared of just a little camera? Brits have those on every corner.
Think if that camera has this technology build in.... now thats something else
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENGY1CD9y_4
(That technology has been used in Russia on major highways into major cities for a long time.....while brave gistapo cops of road police detained me, I got to watch it in action...)
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Hi.
(http://www.philipcoppens.com/1984_orwell.jpg)
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Originally posted by Fulmar
Hi.
You just made "the list" Fulmar. Government agents will be along shortly. They are there to help you.
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Wow, what a nice unbiased website. Every single article talks about the evils of red light cameras and I was unable to find a single article that talks about how the cameras in many cases reduce the number of accidents (as they do here in Columbus).
It's funny how a stationary, well-marked red light camera suddenly is described as a "spy camera".
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The blue people in their blue cities are getting what they want and deserve.
ya all buckle up now ya heah?
lazs
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Wow, what a nice unbiased website. Every single article talks about the evils of red light cameras and I was unable to find a single article that talks about how the cameras in many cases reduce the number of accidents (as they do here in Columbus).
It's funny how a stationary, well-marked red light camera suddenly is described as a "spy camera".
You can use spray that will defeat them.
Better yet,just drive slower than the speed limit when you run the light.They don't trip unless you do.
I don't like em' for two reasons.I don't like to run red lights,but I will for;1-Somebody way too close behind me and I'm worried about getting hit;2-the light starts to change at the last second and the road is bad from heavy rain,etc.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Wow, what a nice unbiased website. Every single article talks about the evils of red light cameras and I was unable to find a single article that talks about how the cameras in many cases reduce the number of accidents (as they do here in Columbus).
It's funny how a stationary, well-marked red light camera suddenly is described as a "spy camera".
The naive will rule the earth.....for 2 days. At that time it will be taken over by government and laws that the naive have allowed to be put in place.
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Originally posted by Sox62
Better yet,just drive slower than the speed limit when you run the light.They don't trip unless you do.
The sensors in the road determine if you are going to enter the intersection after the light turns red. It has nothing to do with the speed limit.
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when you said red light cameras i thought you ment they were going to start filming the local brothals:confused:
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Originally posted by Sox62
You can use spray that will defeat them.
...and the Klingons have a neat cloaking device...
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Wow, what a nice unbiased website. Every single article talks about the evils of red light cameras and I was unable to find a single article that talks about how the cameras in many cases reduce the number of accidents (as they do here in Columbus).
It's funny how a stationary, well-marked red light camera suddenly is described as a "spy camera".
And alot of places have seen no reduction in accidents, or even an increase in accidents.
They are nothing more than a revenue generation scheme by local governments....oh wait, now they are also a way for them to watch the cattle.
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Just wait to governments here catch on to the revenue generating potential of speed cameras, or as we Brits like to call them - piggy banks.
These things were originally only meant to be deployed in accident black-spots or near schools, but somehow we forgot to adequately define what 'near' means with the result that the bloody thing are now everywhere. Anyone who objects is instantly branded a speed-crazed child killer and insurance companies are having a field day with something like 60% of motorists now carrying a current speeding conviction.
America 'aint seen nothing yet.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
The sensors in the road determine if you are going to enter the intersection after the light turns red. It has nothing to do with the speed limit.
The article in the Columbus Dispatch stated otherwise.
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Originally posted by rpm
...and the Klingons have a neat cloaking device...
http://www.photoblocker.com/www/video.html#
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
The sensors in the road determine if you are going to enter the intersection after the light turns red. It has nothing to do with the speed limit.
what happens if you end up stoping in the intersection and then back up?
I know its happend to me on occasion.
And sometimes its a judgement call
Usually I use the rule of thumb of if I feel I can safely stop without skidding into the intersection Ill stop.
If I dont think I can, I wont.
I dont like the idea of these things because it removes a judgement call from the equasion.
It only see's you blowing through the red light.
It doesnt know WHY you went though.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
They are nothing more than a revenue generation scheme by local governments....oh wait, now they are also a way for them to watch the cattle.
Yup, Just like the roadside safety inspections, Click it or Ticket And the "Zero Tolerence for agressive Driving Week"
Alot of these things are tied to federal funding.
Your state gets X amount of dollars. But they also want to see the tickets.
IF any of the above werent tied to Federal funding, you wouldnt see such extortion schemes. Cept maybe in a few small towns I know of.
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We had one here in our town, someone took it out with a shotgun. They can't see from the side, so a shooter is completely hidden from them. I wish everybody everywhere would do the same. Make the cops actually work for their money.
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Originally posted by wooley
insurance companies are having a field day with something like 60% of motorists now carrying a current speeding conviction.
America 'aint seen nothing yet.
Thats a big part of it too.
Ins Co's love that surcharge they get to charge.
And why not? Its free money And they dont even have to pay anyone to make it as the police are on State and Federal payrolls.
I know several cops who have flat out told me that unless someone is driving really insane. The outright refuse to write up a speeding ticket or moving Violation.
They hate the thought of helping the insurance companies make more money
They will give out tickets for one or more other things instead. Seatbelt, etc.
That way they get their point across. The violator gets punished and has to still pay a fine.
And they arent helping to subsidize the insurance Companies
Originally posted by McFarland
We had one here in our town, someone took it out with a shotgun. They can't see from the side, so a shooter is completely hidden from them. I wish everybody everywhere would do the same. Make the cops actually work for their money.
:aok :aok on the shooting of the cameras
Dats what Im talking about
But. I gotta defend the cops here. Its not the cops fault.
Its the people who run the township that have to approve this stuff first
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Technology is gradually making the idea of a police state easier, and making it so that many fewer officers are required. - Chairboy
I agree. Technology got so out in front of us ("the people") its like trying to hold a tiger by the tail. its astonishing. digital surveillance cameras, digital fingerprints, digital license plate readers etc and it can all be flashed to concerned parties all across the nation in igna-seconds.
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Better yet,just drive slower than the speed limit when you run the light.They don't trip unless you do.
WRONG..I have a video and pi cof me driving 22 mph in a 25 mph zone..and got a ticket...
I was slowing down for gridlock..it cleared and I was making a right immediately after the intersection For a taco...RED LIGHT!!..Pictures flash blah blah..
I beat it....I was not the registered owner..By Law its up to the cops to find out who was driving..An owner of the vehicle is not LEGALLY responsible for investigating( doing the cops job) who was the driver
AND!!!!.. It has been proven that a LONGER yellow Ligth REDUCES accidents ...WIth the Cameras..the make the Yellow ligth as short as possible..Legal Mins are 2.5 seconds...This has caused MORE accidents
So you weenies who think Cameras are the Great Savior...Vote for a Limp Wristed Linguini spine Liberal..and they will take care of you
here is a great web site for info
http://www.highwayrobbery.net
Btw I just beat 2 tickets..One for red light camera..the other fro speeding..my girlfriend drives fast
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Well, I think some people will get angry when I mention this, (mostly those who think owning a gun should be illegal), and I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but can you say "1984" or "V is for Vendetta"? I read the "V is for Vendetta" book, and the setting there was much like these cameras would make it, a camera on every street corner watching what you are doing at all times. And while I've never read "1984", I know that "V is for Vendetta" was made with it in mind, and it has the same story setting, a completely government controlled country. We are getting dangerously close to this happening, especially in Great Britain. These cameras are just one step closer.
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Now ABC is grooming people to accept this camera-heavy police state.
Surveillance Cameras Win Broad Support
Majority of Americans Favor Extra Safety Factor of Cameras
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3422372
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Can you say forged poll? I never voted. None of the people I know voted. They probably only asked 100 people, and made sure 71 of them were communist sympathizers.
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In this country... If you tell people that it will save lives or money then you can pretty much take any freedom they have from em.
Ya all buckle up now ya heah?
lazs
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Well Laz...we all know that the Gub`ment knows what is best for us. We cannot be trusted to take care of ourselves.
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not only that but...we get what we deserve.
When people think that they have the right to vote away individual rights based on saving that persons life or maybe costing them money... and you have a government willing... no... eager to take that power and destroy the rights of individuals and call it "the will of the people"
then we have a problem that is our own making.
A constituional government would make sure that these morons didn't have the right to vote on other peoples individual rights... a just and free people would not even think about doing so in the first place..
It is chicken and egg time with this one... who cares how we got this way but... we are there.
lazs
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Well, I think we got this way because men are no longer men, at least most of them. They're mice. If the Founding Fathers could see this country now, they'd start another revolution. And with good cuase, we are doing to ourselves what the British did to us. Taking away our basic freedoms. I have seen this somewhere on this board: "A man that would have life in exchange for liberty deserves neither" or something like that, but that was the meaning of it. I think it was one of Ben Franklin's quotes.
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Originally posted by lazs2
In this country... If you tell people that it will save lives or money then you can pretty much take any freedom they have from em.
Ya all buckle up now ya heah?
lazs
now THAT is Tagline material
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The inevitable next step is coming, there's now a formal proposal in the works to start installing cameras in houses in the UK:
http://www.trevor-mendham.com/atuxviii/blog/2007/08/big-brother-cameras-proposed-for-uk.html
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And the citizens will have no say in the matter, they have no guns to defend themselves with. Except for the large long barreled rifles that are little good in close combat.
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The inevitable next step is coming, there's now a formal proposal in the works to start installing cameras in houses in the UK
Hardly a "formal proposal".
As the article you linked to says:
"It needs to be stressed that this is just the idea of one academic - Professor Neil McKeganey of the centre for Drug Misuse Research at Glasgow University"
I don't know how things operate in the US, but in the UK no one takes outlandish suggestions by a university professor very seriously. 3 years ago the same prof said that female drug addicts should be paid to take long term contraception. That idea sank without trace too, even though it was far less controversial and far more sensible. He's also suggested the children of drug addicts should be removed from their parents and taken in to local authority care, and no one paid any attention to that, either.
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I'm with chairboy on this one. If you want to see the extent that camera and technology can be used to control a population, look no further than the PRC (China). In conjunction with companies such as Google and Yahoo, they have put together a surveillance and police apparatus that will send chills down your spine. I don't think that liberty and safety are as big of a concern as revenue for the state in this case. What amazes me is that our governments will use technology to watch citizens, but they can't keep track of dangerous sex offendres and the like. Go figure.
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They're getting people used to the idea. "Sure," folks say, "I guess that sounds reasonable..."
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Bolo & chairboy got it right.
But men, remember every city has the power lines runing under the sidewalks or the street.
Blow that up, they have no lights no cameras..no action.
Corse at that time you will be labled a terrorest or enemy of state and hunted down and executed.
SWOON, it just keeps getting better and better!
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at this point it is probly too big to fight. When you were young you escaped the nanny state by moving out of the house.
Now.. the nanny state is any large group of womanly adults. If you move out away from the concentrations of em you can get some peace and freedom...
so long as you keep a fairly low profile. You sure as hell don't want to get em outraged or point out how enslaved they are bu your example.
I have seen people actually get angry that I wasn't wearing a seatbelt.. saying you don't on this board will get angry responses.
lazs
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I can confirm as storch said these cameras are in full force in broward (go figure atta, padilla etc..)
Its funny though... they are pointed at the windshields of the vehicle not the intersection...
IMO that could only mean one thing.. face recognition... or pure incompetence in angling the cameras for red light runners... take you pick..
this is already happening ..... old news...
DoctorYo
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here's something I ran across while looking for something else... I think it fits....
The Source: The Best of Pogo, Edited by Mrs. Walt Kelly and Bill Crouch Jr. A Fireside Book, published by Simon & Schuster, Copyright 1982 by Walt Kelly Estate
The Chapter: ZEROING IN ON THOSE POLLUTERS: WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US, By Walt Kelly, Page 224. Beginning with the sixth paragraph:
“In the time of Joseph McCarthyism, celebrated in the Pogo strip by a character named Simple J. Malarkey, I attempted to explain each individual is wholly involved in the democratic process, work at it or no. The results of the process fall on the head of the public and he who is recalcitrant or procrastinates in raising his voice can blame no one but himself. An introduction to Pogo Papers, published by Simon and Schuster in 1952-53, said in part:
‘...Specializations and markings of individuals everywhere abound in such profusion that major idiosyncrasies can be properly ascribed to the mass. Traces of nobility, gentleness and courage persist in all people, do what we will to stamp out the trend. So, too, do those characteristics which are ugly. It is just unfortunate that in the clumsy hands of the cartoonist all traits become ridiculous, leading to a certain amount of self conscious expostulation and the desire to join battle.’
‘There is no need to sally forth, for it remains true that those things which make us human are, curiously enough, always close at hand. Resolve, then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tiny blasts of tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us.’