Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: DoNKeY on July 30, 2007, 05:21:37 PM
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Like the title says, I am looking for people who are successful in the Dora to post strategies they use (like try to come in X above the enemy and drop on their 3/9 or whatever), tips for flying and fighting in the Dora, and also films of multi kill successful sorties.
Thanks for whatever help you guys give, I'm looking to try and get better at the flying her.
PS: What convergence do you guys have? I have both set to 175 or 200, 175 so when i zoom down close to them. What do you guys find works well??
Thanks
-Brian
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175 is fairly close. If you get kills that close, all the better. However, I usually set mine further out, about 250-300. The guns on the dora are all close to the centerline, and as such you don't have as many problems with convergence. That means you can adjust for "drop" and still land long-range shots, instead of them crossing and scattering on either side of the target.
Anyways, I might have a film of a multi-kill sortie with multiple 190D wingmen. I'll have to look in my film directory. I recall filming it and using the film to get screenshots, so I might still have it.
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I think you'll find your convergence settings a bit too close in. Try it out around 275-325. I'd personally, only fire the cannons, and leave the MGs for scaring purposes. So perhaps, if you were doing that, set the MGs further out - 400 or beyond and just use em for scaring people at longer distances into turning, then use the cans for the real work.
A lot of people think there are specific or even secret 'moves' for particular aircraft which if performed are the miracle cure to all your combat woes. People think that to get good at one aircraft, they need to know those moves or quick-tips. When in reality there is no such thing. What you really want is to learn the Dora's flight envelope entirely, and its quirks and characteristics, and how to push the outer limits of the envelope. On top of this you need to know how its envelope compares to your adversaries. So, you will need a good comprehension of your adversaries flight envelopes and quirks. What im saying is to get good in one aircraft, you need to master its envelope and understand all your adversaries envelopes. Its as much learning your aircraft as learning all the others.
Furthermore, once you understand this, you'll understand that any tactic can be employed in any aircraft to varying degrees of success. The principles of air-combat and ACMs are the same irrespective of the type of aircraft you fly. Its just that some are better in some aspects than others. Its a matter of knowing the capabilities and knowing your adversaries capabilities and let that dictate how you engage and fight.
Example: In the Dora, you wont try to get into a slow-speed turn-fight with a zeke or a spit. But you would be happy to get into a slow-speed turn-fight with an Me262. You would take to the vertical against a P47, but not against a 109K etc etc. You would use your speed against a spit 16 etc etc.
Im no Dora expert, so i cant offer you any really interesting tid-bits regarding the Dora's flight capabilites. Except it rolls very well. It has a terrible slow-speed handling characteristics. Its brutally fast. And climbs pretty well. It has good high-speed handling characteristics. Its at its best at high-speeds. Keep her fast and you'll be in the zone.
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Sorry for the off Question, But in regards to the FW190 does any one have a pic or screen of the instrument panel???
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Allright, let me give you guys a situation that I frequently encounter. I fly to an enemy airfield and end up somewhere between 12-17k. It's usually somewhere between 12-14 know though. I level off and drop my drop tank and start searching for guys. Usually I'll see somewhere around three people to start of with usually between 2-5k. I end up diving down hitting like 550 or whatever level off of come at them at a slight angle and shoot a little bit if they don't break. I usually don't hit them or injure them. I'll pull almost straight vertical zooming back up till I have about 200-240 mph left and usually immelman or loop and come right back down on them. On the second or third try when I isolate I guys I might zoom down but then slow down, and get on his six. I can usually shoot this guy down, but know I'm only going about 250 on the deck with cons higher and faster, or worse case scenario with one on my six. So I either run away or I try to shake him, usually ending up with me getting shot down cause I'm low and slow.
What am I doing wrong? How should I approach situations like this? I hate having such a huge E advantage to start off with, but when I zoom down on people it seems that for that split second I have a shoot my guns don't do any damage. I'm not sure if I'm not hitting enought or what, but I eventually have to settle down and saddle the guy up, but when I kill him I'm in a very bad position, which usually ends up with a bad guy getting on my six moments after.
Should I just continue to bnz and hope that eventually one of my snap shots will hit? At what angle should I zoom at? Is a loop a good way to reverse back on the guy at the top of a zoom? If the guy knows im above him/ doesn't know, should I zoom down a distance away and then level off and catch up to him on his six, or some other direction, or do usually what I do which is come down on his six but from like a 10 degree level and try to get him and then pull up and zoom?
Thanks for any help guys.
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I might be wrong about this, but you might need to stick to picking people.
Same goes for flying a 262, P51, Tempest... and any of the other planes that rely on speed. These planes go so fast and when you combine that with their relatively poor turning ability, they become very easy to avoid if they're trying to BnZ you.
If you have other cons to worry about though, or you're on someone's six, you become a much easier target.
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By sticking people do you mean just continue to dive down at hight speeds and attempt a deflection shot and then zoom back up?
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Originally posted by Fianna
I might be wrong about this, but you might need to stick to picking people.
Same goes for flying a 262, P51, Tempest... and any of the other planes that rely on speed. These planes go so fast and when you combine that with their relatively poor turning ability, they become very easy to avoid if they're trying to BnZ you.
If you have other cons to worry about though, or you're on someone's six, you become a much easier target.
You are right for the most part. The D9 is supreme at picking and (*gasp*) vulching. Incredibly fast, stable and hard hitting. The rate of roll enables very quick heading changes while using the vertical, e.g. zooming up & down. That can compensate the bad turning ability. As an angle fighter, it sucks.
The P51 and Tempest however, are much more suited to add some "turnfighting" components to your fight. The Pony as a much better instantaneous turn rate at high speeds and is much better controllable at slow speeds. And the Tempest can turn much better than most people think, it's no-flaps turn radius is about average, but it's turn rate is actually pretty good at the same time. If you make use of the fact that it's turning better in the opposite direction of most planes, you can actually turnfight a surprising huge number of fighters.
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Originally posted by DoNKeY
Allright, let me give you guys a situation that I frequently encounter. I fly to an enemy airfield and end up somewhere between 12-17k. It's usually somewhere between 12-14 know though. I level off and drop my drop tank and start searching for guys. Usually I'll see somewhere around three people to start of with usually between 2-5k. I end up diving down hitting like 550 or whatever level off of come at them at a slight angle and shoot a little bit ifthey don't break. I usually don't hit them or injure them. I'll pull almost straight vertical zooming back up till I have about 200-240 mph left and usually immelman or loop and come right back down on them. On the second or third try when I isolate I guys I might zoom down but then slow down, and get on his six. I can usually shoot this guy down, but know I'm only going about 250 on the deck with cons higher and faster, or worse case scenario with one on my six. So I either run away or I try to shake him, usually ending up with me getting shot down cause I'm low and slow.
What am I doing wrong?
You said it yourself: "I'm low and slow". Simple fix, don't be. Well actually, the real problem is being low, slow and exposed to an enemy aircraft which isn't. When you get all these three together, you in serious do-do. Take one out of the equation, and your odds go up. Being low and slow isn't a problem if the only enemy aircraft is the one in your gun-sights (assuming you don't let them off the hook). So from this you should note that knowing the locations, numbers, E stakes of enemies near you is critical to surviving the low and slow conundrum. Situational awareness (or SA for short), is the name for this art. So, to put it simply, having a good SA picture is crucial for your survival when low and slow.
In fact, SA helps you no matter what your E stakes are. High, and fast? those 3 higher P51s are really going to dampen your day if your SA didn't allude you to their presence in time to take appropriate evasive actions.
So to answer your question directly, it sounds like you're getting target fixated, and not paying attention to the wider tactical picture, and that high 109 that has come in from the south. Have you got separated from mutual support of your wingman or countrymen? Have you been sucked into a trap? If you're going to go diving down, and want to get out again, make sure you know where and when to cut your losses and re-assess your tactical situation and re-evaluate your priorities.
Should I just continue to bnz and hope that eventually one of my snap shots will hit?
Depends if you want to survive and not at risk of being BnZ'd yourself.
At what angle should I zoom at?
Dependant on your situation, and depends on how you want your opponent to react. Do you want to create seperation for a conventional reversal? Do you want to tempt them upwards into a rope? Do you want to spiral climb? Are you just going to bug-out? Are there multiple bogeys?
Is a loop a good way to reverse back on the guy at the top of a zoom?
See above.
If the guy knows im above him/ doesn't know, should I zoom down a distance away and then level off and catch up to him on his six, or some other direction, or do usually what I do which is come down on his six but from like a 10 degree level and try to get him and then pull up and zoom?
Again depends on whether you think they've seen you or not. Coming in dead on their six will offer you the best shot opportunity if they do break. Diving to their low six and coming in from their blind-spot is a good way to avoid detection, or confirm they've seen you - if they have seen you they will do little rudder-skids to check up on your progress. If they dont, they probably havent seen you :D For this reason i tend to attack from their low 6.
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Seems to me you haven't got your aim down yet. When you're diving in with so much excess speed, you can't line up your shot, and you can't land the shot.
Set your convergence out further, and open fire further. I'd also suggest firing MG131s with your MG151/20s. They're almost as strong as 50cals, can set fuel tanks on fire, wound pilots, or just give that last straw that broke the camels back (broke the target's wing off). You have plenty of ammo, so fire further out. If you're not hitting, lead more. Take what you think is normal lead, and double it. Doesn't matter if you're too far ahead, they often fly right through your bullet stream.
Now about the setting up of the shot. Don't just dive right down onto the target. Chances are it's heading in a direction other than yours, and as you close so fast you won't get a shot. Instead, throttle back in the dive (to slow down), do a bit of a spiral, until you're behind the target more, THEN finish the dive directly on the enemy's 6 oclock. That will give you the best chance to finish him. If he breaks, then you keep going, climb back up and repeat.
low, slow, and outnumbered... First, if the enemy only show up at 2-5k you don't need to waste time climbing to 14k. Just climb to 8k. If you're not sure how high the enemy is, go higher if you like, but if you know the enemy is low don't bother going sub-orbital. You've got alt and speed. You make a few passes on the targets below you. Keep an eye out for new enemy targets coming in high. If you see any that look like they're coming to pick you, just break off your target and head off to your field, calm and level.
ALWAYS know which way is "out" and which way is "in".... More than once I've RTB'ed to an enemy field and been swarmed to death. Know in general which way is "clear" to head off to.
So, if the high cons look interested, just angle away from them. Stay level if you're in no immediate danger. Most often this is the best way to avoid 5 vs 1 situations. Most times you pull away from the busy cons and only 1-2 want to follow you, making it much easier to engage/disengage as you wish.
If you're slow, level out and hit WEP. You have 10 minutes of it. You won't be using it when you're BNZing, so you should have plenty left to spare. It won't take long until you're fast (and fast and low is much better than slow and low).
I've got an hour-long film that is 5MB zipped, but am trying to find a place to host it. It's a 190D sortie (vox/text removed, for the protection of ... well everybody else from hearing what my squaddies and I talk about :D ), and I think it's got about 6 or 8 pilots in 190Ds (I'm one of them). We go out and get some kills, RTB, maybe hotpad (can't remember) and we end up finally landing after a long sortie.
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Thanks, would love to see that film.
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I think I have a place to upload it. I'll try it this evening when I get home from work.
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I'm sending you a PM in a minute with the download link for the file. Let me know when you've got it (I've got to take it down when I'm done).
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Sending pm to you, I downloaded it, thanks a lot.
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It's a long one. Keep the mouse over "fast forward" heh heh
We were doing a fun thing, lining up at the beginning. We don't normally do that. Just fast forward until we're already well on our way.
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Got it. And you replied to that PM fast! I was amazed lol.
EDIT: Don't want to start another thread for this one question, so, is there a way to switch FM in offline mode so that when I shoot a planes wing off it will plummet to the ground? I think that would help me a lot with knowing what is a killshot, etc, and boost my confidence!:D
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Ok...
When there is three enemys at all costs keep the energy advantage over them, you have no problem disengaging if it doesnt work out. You are way to eager for the kill.
Stay up high, see which of the 3 is trying to climb up and get slow. That is the newbie, you kill this one first.
Dive later and only when you are close to the enemy. Stay high over them a bit to make them nervous till one of them gets bored and climbs up or forgets you and doesnt see you anymore.
Stay above/behind, change the targets... untill one of them looses sight of you....
Be sure to pick up enough speed... sounds to me you drop the dt and start diving straight for the enemy. Release the dt earlier and gain some speed/more alt.
Dont go straight up after the shot. After doing anything you can to be sure he wont get a shot after you pass him, pull up in a less steep climb till your speed is down to 200mph and then lvl and pull around in a gentle circle.. I am no expert on dora but it seems to me you burn to much energy on your vertical pull up.
Try to come down from straight above your pray. Gives him less chances to dodge.
Dont slow down and latch on anyones six if there is more than one con. You have to get the boom n zoom down with that plane, you cant win a slow turnfight against multiple enemys.
There is no need to latch on any 6es since you can just shoot them in the zoom.
Dont point your gun straight at the enemy. If he goes in a gentle right turn, aim generously to hist LEFT. Once you come closer he rolles and breaks hard left, you get a nice profile shot. He continues to tighten right, just zoom back up.
Stay fast.... nothing wrong with a fast turnfight, the great roll rate makes the 190 good there, also nice big rolling scissors maybe... but when he slows it down try to nail him and then break away.
Of course you can turn fight, let em overshoot, scissor, stall.... but why loose your advantage if you have it?
Keep your speed, cherry pick those that cant dodge you, run home and laugh at the frustrated chicken/ runner comments.
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im a pony pilot by proffesion but i flew the dora and the a5 for a tour each and all i can say is keep your speed up and if some slow plane is on your six extend a while and come back. otherwise force an overshoot using your amazing roll rate(what i would do) considering the pony handles alot better i dont believe i can give you any flap settings or advice on dora tnb besides that i wouldent recomend that in any 190 cept the a5. just watch out for ponys they will dominate you co-e. its very easy for a pony to kill a dora unless he runs
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Donkey, if you ever get done watching that film, I'd be curious how you react to my flying (or my skilless mimicing of it).
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So far I've been able to watch about thirty minutes of it. I keep hoping something interesting will happen when you guys sit on the runway with your engines off, but... lol. So far it's been helpful. I'll let you know what I think when I'm done.
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Here's a tip: If you hit Fast Forward once, it goes fast. You hit it multiple times and it goes ever faster.
We were all talking and stuff, sitting on the runway but I stripped that off so you can't hear it.
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Oh yeah lol I used fast forward lol or atleast the fps modifier thing.
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The double arrow button (by the play and pause buttons) is much faster than the slider. The slider is for a more precise control.
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Yeah, I liked the film. Showed me that I really need to wing with somebody. It also helped me a little in setting up my runs thanks a lot.
And do you know the answer to the question I gave above? The one about whether or not you can switch the FM for the drones so that if you hit a wing off the plane will spiral down????
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Originally posted by DoNKeY
And do you know the answer to the question I gave above? The one about whether or not you can switch the FM for the drones so that if you hit a wing off the plane will spiral down????
You can't do that.
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http://www.pilotfriend.com/photo_albums/timeline/ww2/Focke%20Wulf%20Fw%20190.htm
Very good info on real Fw190s and a image of the Fw190F8 instrument panel, plus if you look around youll find info on a whole lot of other aircraft!
:D
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Anyone have that old Urchin film, "Luxury of Speed?" That is a great example of 190 gunnery, patience, as well as what you can do when their's an enemy on your six that's gaining on you. I believe Urchin dispaches a F4U4 at the end in a good rolling scissors fight on the deck.
And if anyone does have it, can I have it again too? Because I lost it unfortunately :(