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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: DweebFire on July 31, 2007, 10:09:10 PM

Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: DweebFire on July 31, 2007, 10:09:10 PM
Hey all. Just got my butt handed to me in 8 player.

Apologies again Awcan. I honestly did not want to crash into you so many times heheh. :D

At any rate, I found the spitfire to lack energy fighting abilities and that my buddies said the P-38 was a better point defence fighter that could climb well enough and stalls were gentler than single engine aircraft.

Do you believe the P-38 is a good point defense fighter when launching from a base in order to protect a base about 12 miles away thats getting capped by a  spit 16 for example? If so, which P-38?

Thanks!
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Benny Moore on July 31, 2007, 10:19:19 PM
No.  As a dedicated Lockheed P-38 flyer, I can tell you that it lacks the climb to do that well.  Better take an Me-109K or a Spitfire Sixteen, both of which have superior climb and are faster.  They're also generally more maneuverable than the P-38 (especially the Spitfire).  In short, there's no really good reason to fly the P-38 in Aces High II unless you just love the Lightning, except for the fact that it's easier to stall fight in than most other ships.  By "easier" I mean "takes less effort to use your airplane's maximum capabilities," not that the airplane will reliably out-stall fight most other ships.  Due to its weight, it won't.
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: SgtPappy on July 31, 2007, 10:57:00 PM
I say the F4U! bwahaha. I recently flew the P-38G.. wow it's fun, but time to get back in my old F4U. It's not the gentlest of turners at uber low speed but you often have the option to dive away and gain a lot of speed in even shallow dives. The P-38J/L, though a better accelerator, won't really cut it.

Also, you've got speed brakes and you turn tighter. Climb sucks, but if the enemy's de-acking they're probably low anyway.

I say your main problem isn't the plane, but getting teamed up. You go after one plane, there's another one right behind ya.
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Geary420 on July 31, 2007, 11:27:39 PM
If I need to get up off a field ASAP before it gets capped, or get to the neighboring base to head off a horde than the LA7 is the only way to go.  Great speed on the deck, great maneuverability, great guns package, and great vis when tracking multiple targets.
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: 1K3 on August 01, 2007, 12:14:44 AM
Bf 109G-14/K-4
Lavochkin series
Spitfire VIII/XVI
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Geary420 on August 01, 2007, 12:19:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
Bf 109G-14/K-4


Agree with these as well, the K4 is great all around, and the G14 is awesome for shredding those pesky NOE bufftards with the gondolas.
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: tedrbr on August 01, 2007, 12:21:12 AM
Any B&Z will work well if you are planning to jump the vulchers at a CAPed field from another field.  All comes down to personal preferences and strengths.
C.205 is my choice.  Full fuel, drain wing tanks first, good ammo load out.  Quick to altitude.  Not a vertical or stall fighter though.  B&Z.  Learn to extend.  
Many 109's, Ponies, Jugs, P-38s, will work as well.  Yaks and La's too, but fuel duration can be a problem in an extended fight.

Use Speed, energy management, and snapshots against the splixteens.
Title: Re: Best point defense fighter
Post by: CAP1 on August 01, 2007, 12:35:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DweebFire
Hey all. Just got my butt handed to me in 8 player.

Apologies again Awcan. I honestly did not want to crash into you so many times heheh. :D

At any rate, I found the spitfire to lack energy fighting abilities and that my buddies said the P-38 was a better point defence fighter that could climb well enough and stalls were gentler than single engine aircraft.

Do you believe the P-38 is a good point defense fighter when launching from a base in order to protect a base about 12 miles away thats getting capped by a  spit 16 for example? If so, which P-38?

Thanks!


i like the L a lot.it's fast, but i use it that way too....i STILL can't turnfight in it. i can kinda sorta turnfight in the G, but i normally die...just make the other guy work harder for his kill.........i don't generally use the G for anything other than that....
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: DoNKeY on August 01, 2007, 12:37:18 AM
No dora tedrbr?
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Bruv119 on August 01, 2007, 09:09:04 AM
My favourites for base defence Hurri 2C, Spit 16 or if you have slightly more time to get up LA7.

They all carry bombs aswell so killing the odd tank or osty trying to kill the town always slows the enemy up giving more time for friendlies to assist.


Bruv
~S~
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Sikboy on August 01, 2007, 10:46:00 AM
I'd go with the 109 series for base defense. The short legs aren't as much of a problem when the badguys are that close, and you just can't beat them for putting air under your plane. Add the hammergun on the G14/K4 and you've got some real bad news for incoming Buffs, but even with the MG-151/20 there's plenty of firepower.

Just remember to use that climb rate to try and equalize e-states as quickly as possible.

-Sik
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: DweebFire on August 01, 2007, 11:11:53 AM
I'm not sure if this is correct, but, theoretically speaking, a plane could gain altitude well by zooming rather than just climbing.

We know that an La-7 won't straight outclimb the Spixteen right? But because it's so much faster and gets to for example, 300 mph much faster, then theoretically it can just zoom on that 300, get to 3K + and then just accelerate from there to the enemies. Perhaps the speed advantage could be used and converted into a climb advantage.
Title: Re: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 01, 2007, 12:24:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DweebFire


At any rate, I found the spitfire to lack energy fighting abilities and that my buddies said the P-38 was a better point defence fighter that could climb well enough and stalls were gentler than single engine aircraft.



Thanks!



The Spitfire Mk VIII, IX, XIV and the XVI are all good energy fighters as well as angle fighters.  One of the reasons why these planes are so popular.

I wouldn't take off in a P-38 if the field is being vulched, you'll never get your wheels up before you get shot down.  However, if you look from the tower before you take off and see that while the base is being capped but not really vulched and most of the enemy fighters are staying out of field ack range, then it's safe to take off in the P-38.  Kick WEP in when you start to roll, lift up as soon as you have enough speed.  Level out for speed and defend the base.

Also, the notion that the only reason to fly the P-38 in AH is because you have an obsession with it, is also misleading.  For some, that might be the reason they fly it but in reality and in AH, the P-38 is one of the better fighters in the game and extremely deadly and very hard to beat when it's flown by an experienced P-38 driver.


ack-ack
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: SgtPappy on August 01, 2007, 01:27:12 PM
What's that?

A P-38H is totally awesome and is a must?

Heheh im such a kid.
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: DweebFire on August 01, 2007, 01:28:46 PM
I should have been more specific that it was the V that lacked E fighting skills. Additionally, the Mk.IX did not seem to really zoom nicely or dive well for that matter.
Title: Re: Re: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Benny Moore on August 01, 2007, 05:26:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Also, the notion that the only reason to fly the P-38 in AH is because you have an obsession with it, is also misleading.  For some, that might be the reason they fly it but in reality and in AH, the P-38 is one of the better fighters in the game and extremely deadly and very hard to beat when it's flown by an experienced P-38 driver.


It's true that the P-38 is a good ship in Aces High II.  However, it is not a great ship because there are a fairly large number of ships which the P-38 cannot win against in an equal fight (at least without going to some crazy altitude at which almost no one flies), assuming that the pilots are both equally skilled and know their ship equally well.  These include, but are not limited to, the Spitfire Mark XVI, the F4U-4, the Yak-9U, and the La-7.  I'm aware that you believe that you can beat anything in your '38, but the fact is that you can only beat those ships (and others) when they are flown by an inferior pilot.  Why is that?  It's because they out-do the P-38 in all of the areas which really matter in a dogfight, including speed, climb, instantaneous turn, sustained turn, and acceleration.  Roll and dive doesn't cut it, as the FW-190A-8 proves.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 01, 2007, 05:47:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Benny Moore
I'm aware that you believe that you can beat anything in your '38, but the fact is that you can only beat those ships (and others) when they are flown by an inferior pilot.  



I just go by the experience and knowledge I've gained in 13+ years of playing online combat flight sims, not just by flying offline sims like IL2 or MSCFS.  From my experience, you are incorrect in your assertion that a P-38 pilot will only be successful against those planes you mentioned if they are driven by inexperienced players.  But as with all things in life, YMMV.


ack-ack
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Spikes on August 01, 2007, 06:05:21 PM
I use IIC, IL2s, and...oddly enough, an F4F/FM2 for base defense.
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: DweebFire on August 01, 2007, 09:46:09 PM
I find that I can use my spitfire but the F4U is a tough opponent when it's capping. That thing can go into a scissors and make u overshoot and even if you're in a spitfire XVI, it can just dive, gain some E and come back. And don't even get me started on its flaps at low speed.

My friend and I both flew spit16s and i beat him. then he tried the F4U-1A and outscissored me completely. What is it about those F4U's..? I thought the Spit16 was master of scissors and vertical maneuvers (with exception to the P-38's vertical zooming) :lol
Title: Re: Best point defense fighter
Post by: CAP1 on August 01, 2007, 10:07:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DweebFire
Hey all. Just got my butt handed to me in 8 player.

Apologies again Awcan. I honestly did not want to crash into you so many times heheh. :D

At any rate, I found the spitfire to lack energy fighting abilities and that my buddies said the P-38 was a better point defence fighter that could climb well enough and stalls were gentler than single engine aircraft.

Do you believe the P-38 is a good point defense fighter when launching from a base in order to protect a base about 12 miles away thats getting capped by a  spit 16 for example? If so, which P-38?

Thanks!


apparently i misunderstood your question..i thought u were just wanting advice on the 38's.....

if i'm tryin to up at a capped field, it's gonna either be one of the spits, a hurri2, or a zeke(although i can't shoot from it too well). if i get vulched once, i up from another field and try to sneak up on em....i never let myself get vulched more than once....ever.

<>
john
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: DweebFire on August 02, 2007, 10:05:02 AM
Yes, my conversations do randomly change subject.

Thanks for the advice all.
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: evenhaim on August 02, 2007, 11:39:17 AM
i have time :
p51d
c205
190a5
tempest

if its a quick roll:
p51b
fm2
p40e
109k4-109f4
spit V
maybe even a p38g once in a blue moon
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: FX1 on August 02, 2007, 12:11:59 PM
Spit 16 hands down.. Hard to beat in a vert, there are only three other planes in the game that can equal a spit in the vert. Its a great all around fighter..

What it really comes down to is experience and using each plane strength to your benefit.

If i were you fly the n1k its much forgiving than a spit 16 and has a better ammo load. It will also teach you to use flaps..

I dont fear any p38's co alt in my 16.. Pilots skill doesnt play much of a factor with that fight.. A high 38 can give you fits in the correct hands.
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: JimBeam on August 02, 2007, 03:04:59 PM
i use spit9/16 109G series hurri 11C and Ki-84
if im feeling alittle cocky or have been drinking nothing more fun than a p40 or a spit mk1
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: SgtPappy on August 02, 2007, 05:07:53 PM
You could always try the F4U... provided you know how to dodge and vector roll. When I do fly the occasional Spitfire, I prefer the Mk.VIII. It doesn't flip over as easily as a Spitfire XVI and, well, it looks like the good old Spitfires out of my child hood books! Performance is somewhere near the XVI anyway. It mainly lacks the roll rate.
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: FX1 on August 02, 2007, 05:16:40 PM
The 16 guns are better..
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: SgtPappy on August 02, 2007, 09:21:56 PM
... the 8's wings are stronger :D
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: FX1 on August 02, 2007, 09:25:36 PM
You should never get that fast..
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: SgtPappy on August 02, 2007, 09:28:08 PM
... or SHOULD you? :p   Besides, the handling characteristics at super low speeds seems a tad better. Extra fuel ftw!
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: FX1 on August 02, 2007, 10:30:37 PM
Point blank the 16 will win the fight. We have da it to death and the 16 comes out on top..
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Widewing on August 02, 2007, 10:44:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FX1
Point blank the 16 will win the fight. We have da it to death and the 16 comes out on top..


Who is "we"?

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: 1K3 on August 02, 2007, 11:08:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FX1

If i were you fly the n1k its much forgiving than a spit 16 and has a better ammo load. It will also teach you to use flaps..



N1K2-J is suppose to have automatic flaps anyway.


Over 1000 N1K2s were produced. Nevertheless, had numerous difficulties stemming from very complicated landing gear mechanism and poor visibility for landing and takeoff. Modified version, N1K2-J, first flew 31 Dec 43. Only wing, engine, and armament of its predecessor remained. Most noteworthy mod was lowering of wing to lower fuselage level to shorten and simplify landing gear and improve forward visibility. Much simpler airframe could be built in half the man hours of its predecessor. Was immediately accepted and ordered into production, but only about 415 produced. Potentially one of the best Japanese fighters, able to hold its own against F6F and F4U. Maneuverability, boosted by automatic combat flaps activated by mercury manometer that measured angle of attack, almost unbelievable. Unreliable engine remained a problem. "George" encountered by Allies on all fronts from May 44. At Okinawa, was also used as a Kamikaze.

http://www.aviation-history.com/garber/vg-bldg/kawanishi_N1K2-2_f.html
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: FX1 on August 02, 2007, 11:22:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Who is "we"?

My regards,

Widewing


Sonic22
Hemp
Sniper

Blukitty and I had it out once in main, she was in a spit 8 multiple times..

Also you could say that its my over all experience in the spit 16 and 8. You would have a hard time finding another player in AH that has more time in the 16 than myself.
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Guppy35 on August 02, 2007, 11:43:08 PM
For what it's worth, if the field is capped, and I want up in a hurry, it's a Spit 8 just for the slow speed handling.

The 16 is the quicker bird on the deck but it's less stable when the vulchers are about

If  you can get a running start, I'd probably say the 16 but then again if I can get a running start I'll take my 38G :)
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Karnak on August 02, 2007, 11:48:22 PM
1K3,

Approximately 416 N1K2-Js were built.  You only get 1000+ by adding in the 1000 or so N1K1-Js that were built.
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Widewing on August 03, 2007, 12:08:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by FX1
Sonic22
Hemp
Sniper

Blukitty and I had it out once in main, she was in a spit 8 multiple times..

Also you could say that its my over all experience in the spit 16 and 8. You would have a hard time finding another player in AH that has more time in the 16 than myself.


I appreciate this, but I too have dueled Spit8 vs Spit16 and found the 8 to have the edge when the fight gets slow... This includes dueling with Sonic22. Against Sonic, the fight was even until it slowed down, where the Spit8 shines and the Spit16 gets a bit unhappy.

Nearly identical climb and acceleration means neither gains anything in the vertical. The Spit16's better roll rate is an edge, but it's offset by the Spit8's greater stability. I think that the pilot best able to capitalize on his fighter's strengths wins.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Angus on August 03, 2007, 04:42:49 AM
IMHO the Spit VIII is the best Spit 16 killer. But it's maybe just me ;)
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: SgtPappy on August 03, 2007, 09:03:55 AM
Too bad there are so many annoying HOers that make the ol' Spitty look bad.
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: Angus on August 04, 2007, 07:24:55 AM
You can HO nicely in a Spitty :t
Title: Best point defense fighter
Post by: SgtPappy on August 04, 2007, 04:01:40 PM
heh but the Spitfire can do so many other things with its abilities with much less likeliness of dying. HOing would really just support the whole 'all spitfire pilots are complete noobs roflmaonaisse' crap.