Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: WPmega on August 01, 2007, 02:00:28 AM
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my family has a Video of WW2 and it shows that the P47's maybe Heavy ,
BUT could take off of a CV is it just me or can we not do this now? i would
love to take a Jug aka P47 off a CV save me a little time of having to fly so
far to have a great fighter/bomber. the only fighter/bomber on the CV we
have right now is the F6F hellcat and the F4U's.
does anyone think it would be a great idea to have a P47 take off of a CV ?
<> WPmega
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No. It would be an ahistorical usage in terms of AH. They were delivered off of CVs a few times, but the same can be said of other fighters as well.
If you want more fighter-bombers ask for something like the Fairy Firefly.
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well was ganna ask that lol but i liked the P47's more hehe =)
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Like Karnak said, Thunderbolts, and other planes, could (and often were in some OTs) be delivered by CV. They were loaded on board by crane beforehand.
They could not operate from CV's as no tail hook and the landing gear and frame were not up to making carrier landings.
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Originally posted by Karnak
No. It would be an ahistorical usage in terms of AH. They were delivered off of CVs a few times, but the same can be said of other fighters as well.
If you want more fighter-bombers ask for something like the Fairy Firefly.
Fairy Fulmar!
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well like u said they could not land on the CV with no tail hook. but the CV's had a launch system were they could launch the Thunder bolt off of the CV so that it had its speed to get up. yes i understand that we do not have this launch system in HT but it is anther thing that would inprove i mean how many times have people tryed to take a Bomber off of the CV like a TBM and crash into the water or a fighter like a F6F with bombs and hit the ground. its only the people that have been playing for a while that understand how to take off the CV using there flaps. but back to the Thunder Bolts i mean i understand what yall mean but also a the Thunder Bolts carrie more ammo than the other fighters that take off the CV, it has a heavyer payload than the other fighters, also if HT does not want to put the launch system on it well then i know how to take a thunderbolt off of the CV i did it the other day to see how it would work. all u do is back throutle back till u start backing up then u go full power like u would a heavy fighter.
well guys ty for giving to this post and i understand what all of yall are saying but i would still like to see the P47 Thunder Bolt Take off of the CV. i will need some hard hitting information that would tell me that this is a bad idea.
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1) It is "Thunderbolt" not "Thunder Bolt"
2) It is a bad idea because the P-47 was not designed or used to fly combat operations from a CV. It would never have taken off from a CV while laden with bombs like it would be used in AH.
3) It is not that different from an F6F or F4U in terms of capability.
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WPmega.
There is nothing stopping you from using P-47 Thunderbolt (Jugs) from a carrier in the game. You just cant' spawn on the CV with one, but you can land, rearm, and relaunch from one.
Just have to get good at landing on the CV without breaking anything. Slow speed, flaps down, cut throttle and engage brakes when on deck, and stay in control.
Learn to back up to the rearm section of the CV if you go past it on landing. Full flaps and just a tiny bit of throttle..... works with B-26's (I've not tried with Jug, but seems to work with most planes in game). Use rudder to steer... should back up nicely to the cables/rearm area.
Learn to get a Heavy Jug off the deck of a CV. Figure out what load will work, and what is too heavy to work. Practice offline in an arena with Jugs enabled on CV to find out what works for you.
You can also pickle a couple items from your ord load on the deck before you try to take off from the CV after rearming.
But HTC will never enable them on CV's in the online arenas.
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rgr but they were used with Bombs and rockets off of a CV so i mean not trying to be mean but look up ur history a little harder plz before u post and ok so what i put a space between Thunder and Bolt. Tedrbr i understand that sir just was hopeing that i could get it throught and hope to get it on the CV
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Originally posted by WPmega
rgr but they were used with Bombs and rockets off of a CV
I'm not the history buff that others are, but I don't think you have proof to back up that statement.
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i have a historical video tape that shows P47's fighting, Taking OFF OF CV's and taking off CV's with bombs. if u want me to find a web page that has historical value i will.
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ok right now i am looking for a webpage that will prove that i am not kiddn about P47's taking off of a CV but my question to u is why do u not think they can when a B 25 michel was able to take off of a CV and i have a webpage to show u that here is that one with the B25 its a picture of the B 25 taking off.
http://www.chinaclassiccar.org/B-25%20departing%20USS%20Hornet.jpg
A B-25 Mitchell taking off from the aircraft carrier USS Hornet, in his intentions of attacking Tokio, 1942
ok now im ganna go back to looking for the one with the P47
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http://www.battle-fleet.com/pw/his/p47.htm
here is one page. hehe told yea i would find one :D
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RRGYXMs9n1s
here is anther one YAY im on a roll now lol :D :D
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2) It is a bad idea because the P-47 was not designed or used to fly combat operations from a CV. It would never have taken off from a CV while laden with bombs
Learn to get a Heavy Jug off the deck of a CV. Figure out what load will work, and what is too heavy to work. Practice offline in an arena with Jugs enabled on CV to find out what works for you.
reading yalls post again i have seen yall are like missing the key points i put in the CV's had a lauch system and the P47's had no tail hook. now that it has been put in a way were its not so big can u read?
srry to be rude about this but when a post is long no one reads it like the person wanted it to be read.
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I think perhaps what they are trying to tell you is that P47s weren't at all commonly used off CVs. It lies in the same realm as the Doolittle raid, a one time (or maybe a couple times) but nothing significant enough to garner a place in AH. It is the wishlist though...
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Originally posted by WPmega
http://www.battle-fleet.com/pw/his/p47.htm
here is one page. hehe told yea i would find one :D
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RRGYXMs9n1s
here is anther one YAY im on a roll now lol :D :D
That first page says nothing about use off of CVs, and as was stated further up carriers were used for delivery. I'm googling for more atm but not coming up with much.
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rgr i just reread the first one i put yea i did missread but the second one is strong in that they did take off. and yea i understand that more than anything they didnt do it alot so yea. anyway like u said i put it in here because it is the Wish list fourm.
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The second one also show them taking off with drop tanks, not bombs, especially the load out was use in AH2, and it also shows a catapult, which none of our CV's have.
It is a long standing policy that anything in the game has to be historic. Look at how tightly skins are looked at. All submissions MUST have documentation proving that the skin was used in the war, and not a "add-on" think that just happened at the end of the war.
Might as well ask for an F-18
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well if we want to bring up jets i would ask for a Phantom. LOL.
i understand that it has to be historical. but what about the B 25 taking off of a CV i mean if it can take off of a CV why would a P47 not be able to ???????
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The B25 taking off a CV was a one time only special mission. It was a "quick response" to Japan after they bombed Pearl. It did very little damage, and most of the planes and men were lost. All it really was was a quick slap in the face to Japan. I don't think they ever did it again, because all in all it wasn't a good mission.
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Originally posted by WPmega
reading yalls post again i have seen yall are like missing the key points i put in the CV's had a lauch system and the P47's had no tail hook. now that it has been put in a way were its not so big can u read?
srry to be rude about this but when a post is long no one reads it like the person wanted it to be read.
The Jugs shown had drop tank only. No bombs. No rockets. Did not see anything on the first link of note. What the film does show looks like the typical delivery of P-47's to an island airfield being operated by the United States Army Air Force. Not an attack. Just a ferry mission.
And you see to have missed the part where the P-47's could not land on a carrier. Their landing gear and frame were not reinforced to sustain a carrier deck landing..... they would have folded up on the deck. Those Jugs, which had standard gear, were put onto that carrier by a heavy overhead crane. Jugs did not operate from carriers for combat operations.
We can get away with carrier landings in the game.....but IRL, the gear would collapse more often than not, even if they did add a tail hook.
The Manila Bay was a CASABLANCA class escort carrier - CVE-61. Which explains the catapults (short deck) and further points to this being a ferry or shuttle mission of USAAF planes to an island base in the Pacific.
And, actually, it was all kind of hard to read in the first place.
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rgr but i did put that they could not land on the CV because of the landing gear.
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Ted,
He just wants to be able to launch off a CV so he is theoretically closer, thus enabling quick bomb/suicide missions. I guess?
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well that was part of the plan a better CV plane means better missions off of CV. ty for ur comment.
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Originally posted by WPmega
well that was part of the plan a better CV plane means better missions off of CV. ty for ur comment.
Just rock the F4U-1D/C.
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yes put jug carries more Ord which means more distruction. also the jug has 8 50cals which equal more distruction. this is why i want it on the CV lol.
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Hehe no i dont want any p47s, b25s or other non-cv planes to be selected in the cv hangar. I am 99% sure it will never happen either. I would even take it a step further and somehow prevent non-cv planes from landing on them.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
I would even take it a step further and somehow prevent non-cv planes from landing on them.
Now that's just mean. Even I've done emergency CV landings with Ki-67's, B-17's, and non-CV fighters. You will probably see a few B-25 CV landings and (fewer successful) take offs in the first month of it's release.
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Now that's just mean. Even I've done emergency CV landings with Ki-67's, B-17's, and non-CV fighters. You will probably see a few B-25 CV landings and (fewer successful) take offs in the first month of it's release.
I fully expect they will for the first few weeks atleast. Ill be hovering around cv groups in my G14 waiting for them to slow down for landings or get them when they get off :D
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I don't think heavy bombers should be allowed to land on CVs. The CV deck probably couldn't hold up to the sheer weight of 80,000lbs slamming into the deck in a very small area. It would see-saw the ship and probably damage the deck beyond repair.
I think heavy bombers should blow up on impact if they try landing on a CV deck, no matter how gently they do it.
Fighters, however, should be able to. To land hurricanes (non-sea-hurricanes) on a CV all they did was strap sandbags on the tail to keep the tail down during landing. Probably hell on the flight of the plane, but still..
If you do it right you can land normal fighters on a CV.
But not bombers.
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ok what do u mean by non CV planes i mean did u not read the other post. the P47 was able to take off of a CV and it was fuctional. the only thing it could not do was land on the CV. but a skilled pilot can land B17's on the CV i think they can land a P47.
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Krusty,
None of our heavy bombers hit 80,000lbs at 100% fuel and max bombload, let alone nearly empty.
But yes, landing a bomber on a CV seems....iffy at best.
First twin engined aircraft to land on a CV was a Mosquito that was modified to do it, and the Mosquito is not a big twin engined aircraft.
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Originally posted by WPmega
ok what do u mean by non CV planes i mean did u not read the other post. the P47 was able to take off of a CV and it was fuctional. the only thing it could not do was land on the CV. but a skilled pilot can land B17's on the CV i think they can land a P47.
Non Carrier Based planes being just that: planes not designed or capable of operating from carriers. Takeoff - fly a mission - and return to that carrier to do it all over again. Primarily it comes down to the landing gear, tail hook, reinforced airframe, and the fact that most Navies avoided liquid cooled engines among their compliment during WWII.
Not being able to land on a CV means (except for the Doolittle Raid) you won't be operating from CV's in a combat role. A P-47 Jug cannot land on a CV, thus it won't be operating from a CV. Outside of some convoy escorting, catapult launched planes in the Atlantic, which were ditched after 1 mission, generally you don't use land-based Army planes in any numbers on suicide runs from CV's.
And AGAIN, the P-47's shown in the video you posted were coming off a catapult equipped CVE (carrier - escort), they were not carrying bombs, they were not attacking anything. They were being delivered to an Army airfield in the Pacific. A simple ferry mission. Many different types of aircraft could be delivered this way in the Pacific, which is why CVE's like the CASABLANCA were fitted with catapults.
They got loaded up on a carrier by a crane. Stored below decks until they reached their destination (if there was room below for them). They were brought into range of their destination. They took off, often with catapult assist, and proceeded to land at the friendly airfield they were going to operate from. They did combat operations from the island airfield. Not the carrier.
In the game, you CAN (well, are theoretically able to at any rate) land non-CV planes like the Jug and B-17 onto the carriers and take off again after rearming. It's a game. No less unrealistic than Allied planes fighting other Allied planes are historically very low altitudes. Simplifies the game coding required a lot. You want to rearm a Jug or a bomber on a CV, then feel free. Yes, it's gaming the game. Takes a little skill to pull it off too, so if you manage to do it, congrats!
But don't expect to get P-47's spawn-able from CV's in the game just because of 1 film taken way out of context, because "it would be kewl", just because you want it to be so, or because you personally are unable to land a Jug on a CV, rearm, or take off again.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
It did very little damage, and most of the planes and men were lost.
All but a handful made it back. The Mitchells however were toast.
ack-ack