Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Benny Moore on August 02, 2007, 11:53:19 AM
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I'm wondering about the effectiveness of armor plate in Aces High II. It seems to me that it has no chance of stopping anything larger than a thirty caliber bullet. Now, while I realize that a fifty caliber machine gun has been tested to penetrate a fair amount of metal, it must also be realized that these guns have to strike the aluminum skin and then punch through numerous support structures, as well as probably the fuel tank, in order to get to the armor plate. In the case of the twenty millimeter cannon, that means detonating before it hits the plate, so only pieces of the round will reach it. I've read numerous descriptions of cannon round dents in the armor plate, and similar things. I think that the stopping power of the armor plate in Aces High II needs some looking at.
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When a guy 800 and falling back gave me a PW with a spray and pray shot with 1 ping earlier from 50 cal I thought the same thing.
dead six slightly lower than myself just wondering how it managed to hit my poor dweeby weak virtual cartoon pilot when my whole plane would have been in the way....
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Originally posted by Bruv119 dead six slightly lower than myself just wondering how it managed to hit my poor dweeby weak virtual cartoon pilot when my whole plane would have been in the way....
ha, you were looking back, weren't you? :rolleyes:
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Not prolonged looking back quick check to see where he was. When the bullet hit was looking forward.
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Hey Maybe there could be a new key definition for like "HIDE ARSE BEHIND ARMOR PLATE AS I RUN" Button.
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Lol i always thought when someone went head on pressing pg down button so my head would be under control pannel would save me from pilot wound but guess what bullets are ghost form until they pass into cockpit where they become solid objects ^_^ if u get pilot wound from the front and ur hididng behind cockpit it means bullet went into your hydraulics followed the hose and came out one of your instruments... btw if a 20mm round hit a human lets say their arm it would rip their arm off.... lol so that explains the twisted ketchup pack explosion on your window and btw yes the F4u was reinforced with extra armor in the back of the pilot thats why you have very poor visibility out the back in f4us
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Originally posted by devild0g
Lol i always thought when someone went head on pressing pg down button so my head would be under control pannel would save me from pilot wound but guess what bullets are ghost form until they pass into cockpit where they become solid objects ^_^ if u get pilot wound from the front and ur hididng behind cockpit it means bullet went into your hydraulics followed the hose and came out one of your instruments... btw if a 20mm round hit a human lets say their arm it would rip their arm off.... lol so that explains the twisted ketchup pack explosion on your window and btw yes the F4u was reinforced with extra armor in the back of the pilot thats why you have very poor visibility out the back in f4us
Sweet Wall of Text. Is it a 5.10c?
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Depending on the aircraft, there may not be much behind you to stop
a 50 cal. The radio was often placed behind the cockpit in a single seater,
but it's gonna take one big honking radio to stop a 50 or 20mm.
Aircraft are built to be strong, but light. Just because it looks metal
doesn't mean that is steel back there..usually aluminum.
As the pilot wounding goes, we're probably given a bit of a break by
HTC as most of the rounds fired are larger than 30 cal. Even a grazing
hit from these larger rounds can be absolutely devastating to the human
body.
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Originally posted by Bruv119
Not prolonged looking back quick check to see where he was. When the bullet hit was looking forward.
Sorry Bruv. Was kidding. Was definately not trying to come up with a reason why you'd get a pilot wound.
Regards,
Hammer
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Perhaps he shot way above you and the bullet hit you on it's way down to earth? Now that's weapon modeling!!
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ive never gotten a pilot wound from a 20mm it usually results in an immediate tower out. 50 cals and 303s yes. and it depends on the plane but i do frequently get 6 oclock pws in my mustang
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Originally posted by Rino
Aircraft are built to be strong, but light. Just because it looks metal
doesn't mean that is steel back there..usually aluminum.
5/16" face hardened steel plate was the armor plate specified for most U.S. fighters behind the seat and in the firewall. Don't know how much stopping power that has, but like Benny said, I have read a lot of annecdotes from U.S. pilots about its effectiveness--especially against cannon fragments and one specific example of 200 rounds of German 7.7mm. Seems like that should be decent protection from just about all small caliber rounds, and maybe even non-armor piercing .50 or equivalent. Perhaps someone in the armor/ballistics world can expound on that. I got sprayed by a P-51 at 1.0K icon range the other night. I was in a Jug and got a pilot wound from a dead six shot. No other damage other than that. It made my day.
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Originally posted by devild0g
Lol i always thought when someone went head on pressing pg down button so my head would be under control pannel would save me from pilot wound but guess what bullets are ghost form until they pass into cockpit where they become solid objects ^_^ if u get pilot wound from the front and ur hididng behind cockpit it means bullet went into your hydraulics followed the hose and came out one of your instruments... btw if a 20mm round hit a human lets say their arm it would rip their arm off.... lol so that explains the twisted ketchup pack explosion on your window and btw yes the F4u was reinforced with extra armor in the back of the pilot thats why you have very poor visibility out the back in f4us
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that 'cap' on the F4U's rear canopy some device to prevent glass cracking?
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Not sure exactly how the PW's are modeled. I'll get sprayed with no damage to the plane and PW's from low-6 on occasions... my favorite was a 6 o'clock shot that PW'd my B-17 pilot. Expalin that one
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Originally posted by Stoney74
I got sprayed by a P-51 at 1.0K icon range the other night. I was in a Jug and got a pilot wound from a dead six shot.
The 50cal API round is a FAR cry from small rifle-caliber rounds. The 50 caliber can pierce a 1/4 in steel plate at 1 mile out, and then ALSO pierce a second 1/4 steel place 3 feet behind THAT one.
Keep that in mind. 50cal API eat through steel like a hot knife through butter.
If you'd been hit by 7mms you might have been safe. Those 50cals are killer. Granted, getting hits that far out is pretty lucky, and the fact they hit your pilot more so.
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One thing people are forgetting is that the bullet will tumble after hiting the skin, losing much of its penetration by the time it hits the armor plate. It is the tumble that robs it of penetration, not radios, supports or whatnot.
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I'm curious where you read that. Far be it from me to be a doubting Thomas, but on first glance I don't know if I believe that. There are reports of rounds (specifically cannon, but the same principle applies I think) going through the tail of the craft, through anything behind the pilot, through the armor, the pilot and through the instrument panel. If it tumbled after hitting the skin I think it'd never have made it through the armor.
Perhaps the smaller rifle-caliber rounds tumble, but the heavier 50cal rounds (with their inertia) continue on path?
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
I'm wondering about the effectiveness of armor plate in Aces High II. It seems to me that it has no chance of stopping anything larger than a thirty caliber bullet.
How do you know when the plate has been hit, should have been hit, or didn't get hit. Without even knowing if it is modelled or not, I would think that given the rate of fire of the 50s and the number of guns firing, if you get hit around the pilot areas, you will get a PW. That been said, I get hit on the glass several times on some days without getting a PW and some other days a single ping does it. However, when I dont get the PW, I have no idea if the plate stopped the bullet or if it just missed
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Here you guys might or might not find this interesting. Be warned its a lot of reading. I f you want to skim check out Terminal Ballistics on the page.
ballistics (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ballistics.htm)
Hope it helps
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Originally posted by Krusty
Perhaps the smaller rifle-caliber rounds tumble, but the heavier 50cal rounds (with their inertia) continue on path?
They continue on path (so to .303s) but they tumble and hit the plate at an angle, or sideways or some such in most cases/
A .50 bullet isn't that heavy. It doesn't take much force to destabilize it.
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Originally posted by Krusty
The 50cal API round is a FAR cry from small rifle-caliber rounds. The 50 caliber can pierce a 1/4 in steel plate at 1 mile out, and then ALSO pierce a second 1/4 steel place 3 feet behind THAT one.
Keep that in mind. 50cal API eat through steel like a hot knife through butter.
If you'd been hit by 7mms you might have been safe. Those 50cals are killer. Granted, getting hits that far out is pretty lucky, and the fact they hit your pilot more so.
While you are correct about API .50 cal I think you will find that that round is a later version than the rounds used in WWII.
I believe (I could be wrong) that the .50 cal used in 1943 was "ball" type ammo and some type of Tipped AP round.
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But i thought the .50 we have in the game is a "mix match" of the three types used "for simplicity and lass bandwith sake"
They are like 1/3rd of each type or something.
Thats why you get pilot wounds from so far out.
Normaly even a AP round would have a % chance to bounce off, deflect or punch thru.
If what i understand about our .50's and them being mixed.
Then technecly* each bullet has a +% to the over all damage of the cockpit armor.
Basicly, in real life your plate would have a chance to deflect or block the round.
Because AhII simply add's the damage % by each round, if someone hits you dead six "or whatever" there is a chance that after say 15-50+ rounds hit, it renders that armor useless. "and that doesnt take much time with 4 or more .50's spewing lead like laser guns."
"Throws two cents"
Who da heck knows "Looks at Hitech"
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Originally posted by Boxboy
While you are correct about API .50 cal I think you will find that that round is a later version than the rounds used in WWII.
I believe (I could be wrong) that the .50 cal used in 1943 was "ball" type ammo and some type of Tipped AP round.
Negative, API was very common in WW2. I think it was the most common round type. There's a 1940s or 30s test where an API round just eats through half an inch of steel plating. I've seen the photo before but never saved it to my HD.
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seriously guys check out the link I posted.