Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Kaw1000 on August 02, 2007, 02:55:10 PM
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CRIME
95 % of Warrants in LOS ANGELES are for ILLEGAL ALIENS
83 % of Warrants for MURDER in Phoenix Arizona are FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS
86 % of Warrants for MURDER in Albuquerque New Mexico are for ILLEGAL ALIENS
75 % of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix, Albuquerque are ILLEGAL ALIENS
24.9 % OF ALL INMATES in California detention centers are Mexican Nationals here ILLEGALLY
40.1 % of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican Nationals here ILLEGALLY
29 % (630,000) Convicted ILLEGAL ALIENS felons fill our state and federal prisons at the cost of $1.5
Billion Annually
53 % Plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas
are perpertrated by ILLEGAL ALIENS
50 % Plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are ILLEGAL ALIENS
71 % Plus of all apprehended Cars stolden in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and California were
stolden by ILLEGAL ALIENS or "Transport Coyotes "
47 % of cited / stopped Drivers in California have NO License, NO Insurance, and NO Registration for the
vehicle of that 47 %, over 92 % were ILLEGAL ALIENS
63 % of cited / stopped Drivers in Arizona have NO License, NO Insurance, and NO Registration for the
vehicle of that 63 %, over 97 % are ILLEGAL ALIENS
66 % of cited / stopped Drivers in New Mexico have NO License, NO Insurance, and NO Registration for
the vehicle Of that 66 %, over 98 % were ILLEGAL ALIENS
BIRTHS
380,000 Plus "ANCHOR BABIES" were born in the U.S. in 2005 to ILLEGAL ALIEN PARENTS, making 380,000 babies automatically U.S. Citizens 97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid for by American taxpayers.
66 % OF all births in California are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid by taxpayers
HOUSING
300,000 plus illegal aliens in Los Angeles Country are living in garages
Nearly 60 % of all occupants of HUD properties in the United States are illegal aliens.
TV & RADIO STATIONS
14 out of 31 TV stations in L.C. are Spanish only16 out of 28 TV stations in Phoenix are Spanish only
15 out of 24 TV stations in Albuquerque are Spanish only 21 radio stations in Los Angeles are Spanish only
17 radio stations in Los Angeles are Spanish only 17 radio stations in Albuquerque are Spanish only
SCHOOLS
34% plus of Arizona students in grades 1-12 are illegal aliens and 24% plus are non-English speaking
39% plus of California students in grades 1-12 are illegal aliens and 42% plus are non-English speaking
In Los Angeles County, 5.1 million people speak English - 3.9 million speak Spanish
SOCIAL SERVICES
43 % of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens
41 % of all Unemployment Checks in the United States are to illegal aliens
58 % of all Welfare payments in the United States are issued to illegal aliens
Less than 2 % of illegal aliens are picking crops but 41 % are on welfare
POPULATION
Over 70% of the U.S. annual population growth (and over 90% of CA, FL, and NY) results from immigration
EMPLOYER PROFITS
The estimated profit to U.S. corporations and businesses employing illegal aliens in 2005 was more than 2.36 trillion
TAXES
62 % of all "undocumented immigrants" in the U.S. are working for cash and not paying taxes, predominantly illegal aliens are working without a green card
The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 (last known calculation by Professor Donald Huddle, Rice University) was a NET (after subtracting taxes immigrants pay), $70 Billion per year. [What are the 2006 costs?]
The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average illegal alien is $55,000 cost to the American taxpayer in a 5-year span. You personally pay $11,000 every year to illegal aliens.
JOBS (per Center for Immigration Studies - September 2006): Between 2000 and 2005, 4.1 million immigrant workers arrived in the U.S., accounting for 86% of the net inrease in the total number of employed persons (16 & older), the highest share ever recorded in the U.S. Of the 4.1 million, between 1.4 and 2.7 million are estimated to be illegal aliens. Also, between 2000 and 2005, the number of young (16 to 34) native-born men employed declined by 1.7 million - at the same time, the number of new male immigrant workers increased by 1.9 million. [Do you still believe the gov't employment rate stats?]
ACTION: Please share this data with elected officials, particularly those who spew the PCBS about all the "contributions of illegal aliens to our society" AND "our economy would collapse without them"! However, NONE of this will matter IF our borders are not secured OR Pres. Bush succeeds in abolishing them (via his SPP, NAU, NAFTA Hwy), and illegal alien murders, drug smugglers and terrorists continue to be welcomed into our country
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INconceivable!
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Wake up America ... whats the cost?
Hope these 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read by the majority of Americans. Then they will have something to yell at their U.S. Congress members.
14 Reasons to Deport Illegal Aliens...
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, thei r children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the United Stateshttp://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth., heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report:http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants in the United States". http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
So using the LOWEST estimates, the annual cost OF ILLEGAL ALIENS is $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR! So if deporting them costs between $206 and $230 BILLION DOLLARS, Let's get rid of 'em!! We'll be ahead after the 1st year!!!
How have we let this get this far!!?? Please pass this on. Americans need to wake up!
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Let's say I break into your house.
A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials
in ages!!!
It explains things better than all
the baloney you hear on TV.
Her point is:
Recently large demonstrations have taken place
across the country protesting the fact that Congress
is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.
Certain people are angry that
the US might protect its own
borders, might make it harder
to sneak into this country and,
once here, to stay indefinitely.
Let me see if I correctly understand
the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house.
Let's say that when you discover
me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, "I've made all
the beds and washed the
dishes and did the laundry
and swept the floors.?
I've
done all the things you don't
like to do. I'm hard-working
and honest
(except for when I broke into your house).
According to the protesters:
You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan
You are Required to Educate my kids
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family
(my husband will do all of your yard work because
he is also hard-working and honest, except for that
breaking in part).
If you try to call the police or force me out,
I will call my friends who will picket your
house carrying signs that proclaim my
RIGHT to be there.
It's only fair, after all, because you have
a nicer house than I do, and I'm just
trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working
and honest, person, except for well,
you know, I did break into your house
And what a deal it is for me!!!
I live in your house, contributing only a
fraction of the cost of my keep, and
there is nothing you can do about it
without being accused of cold,
uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and
bigoted behavior.
Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you to learn
MY LANGUAGE!!! so you can
communicate with me.
Why can't people see how ridiculous
this is? Only in America .
Mac
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I'm not doubting you, Kaw, but your information would be a bit more credible if you provided the source. As of now, it looks like a cut and paste from an email, and we all know how accurate those are ;)
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Originally posted by Vudak
I'm not doubting you, Kaw, but your information would be a bit more credible if you provided the source. As of now, it looks like a cut and paste from an email, and we all know how accurate those are ;)
MichaelSavage.Com - Home of The Savage Nation
2006 (First Quarter) INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants
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Originally posted by Vudak
I'm not doubting you, Kaw, but your information would be a bit more credible if you provided the source. As of now, it looks like a cut and paste from an email, and we all know how accurate those are ;)
That's sweet coming from someone in CT.
Mac
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Mac, might want to take a deep breath or a midol today...that mood is
ferocious.
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Originally posted by Kaw1000
43 % of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens
Illegals aren't eligible for Food Stamps. I am going to need a better reference source than "The Savage Nation". :rolleyes:
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Mac, might want to take a deep breath or a midol today...that mood is ferocious.
Simple dogs stay under the porch and whimper... where are you?
:D
Mac
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I don't know whether to cry or blow my nose.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Illegals aren't eligible for Food Stamps. I am going to need a better reference source than "The Savage Nation". :rolleyes:
All their kids born here are eligible
Ya, none of those things can be true because Al Gore didn't say them. Can we house some illegals in your house? Would that be ok?
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We need to round up the cattle cars and move them back... anchor babies and all.
For those who say we cant deport 30 million out of the country... Mexico did it.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
All their kids born here are eligible
Ya, none of those things can be true because Al Gore didn't say them. Can we house some illegals in your house? Would that be ok?
OH My Mickey...... next objection?? :rolleyes:
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I see... The Final Solution is at works here in AH forums:t
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
For those who say we cant deport 30 million out of the country... Mexico did it.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
We need to round up the cattle cars and move them back... anchor babies and all.
For those who say we cant deport 30 million out of the country... Mexico did it.
All we need to do is take away the jobs that they come here for, you do that by huge fines on employers that hire them, take the profit out of hiring them and the problem is solved, simple as that.
Now will we do it?...no those companies have lobbyists that have the governments ear, the citizens who pay the freight dont.
shamus
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The thing I don't think people understand is that Our "Leaders" want these people in our country....Lower wages mean higher profits for our leaders!!!(Higher stock prices for our "Leaders" that own huge amounts of shares in these companys!!)
Theres always an underlying reason.....always!!!!:O
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Illegals aren't eligible for Food Stamps. I am going to need a better reference source than "The Savage Nation". :rolleyes:
All they have to do is get a fake ID with someone elses SSN [pretty much ANY American] and they can get them. There are ALOt of citizens in this country that have thier finances screwed up bigtime from them doing that. My niece had a illegal Mexican woman in Georgia that had hers until my brother was notified by an ICE agent.
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Originally posted by Shamus
All we need to do is take away the jobs that they come here for, you do that by huge fines on employers that hire them, take the profit out of hiring them and the problem is solved, simple as that.
Now will we do it?...no those companies have lobbyists that have the governments ear, the citizens who pay the freight dont.
shamus
Fines only get passed to the consumer... Try mandatory jail time (minimum 6 months per illegal) for them and it might work.
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
For those who say we cant deport 30 million out of the country... Mexico did it.
:rofl Classic!
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Fines only get passed to the consumer... Try mandatory jail time (minimum 6 months per illegal) for them and it might work.
That is a very good point.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Illegals aren't eligible for Food Stamps. I am going to need a better reference source than "The Savage Nation". :rolleyes:
I don't see what bearing the language of a radio station has on illegal immigration. *shrug*
ack-ack
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Fines only get passed to the consumer... Try mandatory jail time (minimum 6 months per illegal) for them and it might work.
Depends' on the size of the fine, and what kind of business is charged, too. A small landscaper with maybe 4-5 illegals' might not have as large a fine as say, a corporate farm, but the landscaper might be forced to go belly up if he's only taking in so much. A corporation might be able to weather even large fines, especially some of the ones here in the San Jualquin valley.(Like Bolthouse farms, inc., for instance)
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Originally posted by AWMac
That's sweet coming from someone in CT.
Mac
I'm not quite sure what part of "I'm not doubting you, Kaw" you didn't read, but, hey, we all have those days :D
Ever been to CT, by the way? It's not exactly like we're free from illegal immigrants up here... 'Course, many of them are the good ol' uncle from Poland who came to visit for Christmas back in '99, so they don't get much press. Too white, I suppose ;)
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Fines only get passed to the consumer... Try mandatory jail time (minimum 6 months per illegal) for them and it might work.
The fines cant get passed on if the companies competitors play it straight and don't get fined.
I am not sure who you put in jail, if you find an illegal at Walmart do you imprison the HR person who hired him or the CEO?
shamus
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Originally posted by Shamus
The fines cant get passed on if the companies competitors play it straight and don't get fined.
I am not sure who you put in jail, if you find an illegal at Walmart do you imprison the HR person who hired him or the CEO?
shamus
Archer Daniels Midland has a large enough market share to pass it on easily...
As for who to jail... All of the above.
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lol
You guys are worried about the wrong people. It's the old, white American guys on the boards of large corporations and in Congress responsible for stagnant wages, no job growth in the last 7 years in any sector except the health care "industry," taxes and your stall up the economic ladder. Better keep your eye on them. ;)
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Originally posted by RetroVirus
No illegal aliens = no bus boys at Denny's.
Teens and college students would take those jobs if illegals didn't have them.
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Originally posted by Elfie
Teens and college students would take those jobs if illegals didn't have them.
No, they're too expensive and they complain if overworked.
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and yet... somehow... we survived without the huge amounts of illegals... somehow we managed to get people who were high school or less graduates to build houses for $25-50 an hour... somehow... 3 of them did the same job 10 illegals did.. or are you one who claims that the homes are better built with more quality now that illegals are doing it?
Kids did work and do work at denny's. The cannery in the town next to me was at a college town... it ran seasonaly like they all do right now and it was full of housewives and kids helping to pay their education...
Take any factory and chase out the illegals and the next day all the jobs are filled with legals.
Jail the employers.. they are the problem.
lazs
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why should any person or company be allowed to circumvent existing labor and wage laws? Because illegals do NOT pay taxes other than on sales, employers dont have to pay for health benefits and many of them are receiving WIC, welfare, subsidized housing, etc. I am a hard-core capitalist but I do not believe that my tax dollars should go into the pockets of these people because they have found a way to undercut and cheat American workers.
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rolex actually points out the problem in a backhanded way.. the employers are willing to get the labor and therfore lower the standard of living of anyone working at labor jobs.
the employers are willing to back democrats who in turn let them have illegals because people who have nothing and think they will never have anything love socialism...
The democrats make it so that not only the poor take a chunk out of everyones wages but now.. the illegals.. that services that people get that they did not pay for now go to anyone who shows up in the handout line.
If there were no welfare or free medical or free housing or any of the rest of the giveaway programs... we would not be attracting so many illegals. we do nothing to stop employers from hiring them and then do nothing to stop them from access to all sorts of giveaway programs.
For instance.. we are told that a certain number of children in kalifornia are without medical insurance.. that we need to start a program to insure them... we are not told that the vast majority of them are either hear illegally or born to people who came here illegally.
lazs
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If I have this right.....If a Mexican comes into this country Illegally...and he or she gets sick or hurt in the good ol U.S. they get health care...Hospitals have to give them health care, its the law I believe....so WHO PAYS FOR THAT?????? WE DO!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Elfie
Teens and college students would take those jobs if illegals didn't have them.
I agree, and saw it with my own eyes in CT, on my way back from boston last weekend.
I guess in that area, they haven't had seen the influx of illegals yet.
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Originally posted by Speed55
I agree, and saw it with my own eyes in CT, on my way back from boston last weekend.
I guess in that area, they haven't had seen the influx of illegals yet.
I disagree...If college kids wanted a job bad enough they could get one before the Illegal Mexicans.......The parents of these kids today are to blame for these lazy kids.......I see it time and again parents try to be kids best friends instead of parents...It ruins the kids
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Yes that is definitely part of the problem in certain areas.
Where i was though, it seemed like the kids were normal and hardworking and looking for there start to independence.
When i was a kid, one of my weekend jobs was as a waiter. It was kind of discouraging to be 1 of about 5 americans surrounded by 30 mexicans. They really made it there 2nd job there to try and get rid of us. I can't remember how many times when one of them would start yelling at me in spanish and i'd laugh and tell them to f-off.
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Its funny, both sides have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are.
Them Dems see illegals as a voting block in the future, because all minorities love handouts(or so the dems seem to think). Plus they do not want them to go away, if may increase the price of the vegetables they live on. So they are perfectly happy to have a underclass that works for unfair wages even though they claim to care about the little guy.
The repubs just want the cheap labor cause they are greedy bastards.
The nation is being crushed between two piles of dung, the dung is the republicans and democrats.
We need a national shoot a politician day. :D
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Because illegals do NOT pay taxes other than on sales, employers dont have to pay for health benefits and many of them are receiving WIC, welfare, subsidized housing, etc. I am a hard-core capitalist but I do not believe that my tax dollars should go into the pockets of these people because they have found a way to undercut and cheat American workers.
They do pay taxes. Employers withhold taxes and Social Security, forwarding it using false Social Security numbers provided by the illegal worker. The illegals never file for refunds and never collect the Social Security benefits. Since they don't collect, the withheld amount (tens of billions of dollars every year) is subsidizing you and other Americans. The penalty an employer would pay by playing dumb and claiming ignorance that the documents were incorrect is substantially less than not paying the withholding amount.
What motivation does the government have to stop the "free money" being deposited in government coffers, keeping in mind that the deficit would be even greater without that contribution? That is one reason you don't see much more than words and sound bites by politicians.
Look at it like a hard-core capitalist for a minute:
Except for a US passport, illegals work, pay income and sales taxes, gasoline taxes, buy cars, food, goods and services, commit crimes and can't afford health insurance just like most low to lower-middle income families. And they never get to collect the benefits from their taxes and Social Security contribution.
If they suddenly had a US passport, what would change? Tell me that.
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Originally posted by Rolex
They do pay taxes. Employers withhold taxes and Social Security, forwarding it using false Social Security numbers provided by the illegal worker. The illegals never file for refunds and never collect the Social Security benefits. Since they don't collect, the withheld amount (tens of billions of dollars every year) is subsidizing you and other Americans. The penalty an employer would pay by playing dumb and claiming ignorance that the documents were incorrect is substantially less than not paying the withholding amount.
What motivation does the government have to stop the "free money" being deposited in government coffers, keeping in mind that the deficit would be even greater without that contribution? That is one reason you don't see much more than words and sound bites by politicians.
Look at it like a hard-core capitalist for a minute:
Except for a US passport, illegals work, pay income and sales taxes, gasoline taxes, buy cars, food, goods and services, commit crimes and can't afford health insurance just like most low to lower-middle income families. And they never get to collect the benefits from their taxes and Social Security contribution.
If they suddenly had a US passport, what would change? Tell me that.
YES YES YES Becuse they would be here legally...U know there are laws in this country.:O.....Do it by the book or Don't come in the country!!
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Originally posted by lazs2
love socialism...
I know you do.
Have hundred jobs to fill and hundred laborers. You say that's perfect. Free market says that's BS.
At any time one can get greedy and wants more pay or else, no worky.
Market says, we need at least 101 laborers for 100 jobs to keep wages competitive. Lazs says we need artificial socialist equilibrium.
Market says we need somebody to pick fruits in California even if they're illegals because nobody else will. Really, which sane American would exchange free welfare $$ and housing for crappy and back breaking, minimum wage cherry pickin job in Dixon?
Fact is, Lazs, we became fat spoiled nation and we need somebody else to do all the low paying dirty jobs, because we won't.
If you don't like socialism, let the market sort out the problem. Change the immigration laws to support market needs. Let the capitalism have a chance.
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Also...because there are so many more Lower income people...that means that there is alot more goverment money going to them......I personally know 5 people that have been in car wreaks with Illegal Mexicans.....with of course...no auto Insurance....guess who pays for that....WE DO
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Originally posted by Kaw1000
I personally know 5 people that have been in car wreaks with Illegal Mexicans...
Get out of freakin OH and come to California.
I've been here my whole life and I don't know anybody personally who'd be involved in a car accident with an illegal Mexican with no insurance.
No guarantee though. I know it happens here as well, just not as often as in Ohio. Probably not so many Mexicans here...
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Originally posted by Speed55
I agree, and saw it with my own eyes in CT, on my way back from boston last weekend.
I guess in that area, they haven't had seen the influx of illegals yet.
What part of CT? Surely not New Britain, Waterbury, Hartford, or any other "major" city?
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Originally posted by Rolex
They do pay taxes. Employers withhold taxes and Social Security, forwarding it using false Social Security numbers provided by the illegal worker. The illegals never file for refunds and never collect the Social Security benefits.
You're full of chit. Not only do they file tax returns, many of them file returns w/ false W2's merely so they can get a refund.
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Originally posted by Vudak
What part of CT? Surely not New Britain, Waterbury, Hartford, or any other "major" city?
I don't really remember honestly since it was pouring... but it was a denny's at one of the rest stops along the way down south. Maybe between 1 and 2 hours out of boston. I don't think it was a major city though.
I didn't have time to post here, otherwise i would have asked to see if anyone was interested in a get together somewhere.
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Originally posted by Kaw1000
predominantly illegal aliens are working without a green card
Is this a mistake or does it mean that there are illegals with green cards? :confused:
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They do pay taxes. Employers withhold taxes and Social Security, forwarding it using false Social Security numbers provided by the illegal worker. The illegals never file for refunds and never collect the Social Security benefits. Since they don't collect, the withheld amount (tens of billions of dollars every year) is subsidizing you and other Americans. The penalty an employer would pay by playing dumb and claiming ignorance that the documents were incorrect is substantially less than not paying the withholding amount.
This does not apply to a lot of construction jobs. Before the illegals took over I was always paid by check without any taxes being withheld. I was considered a subcontractor and responsible for my own taxes. Last I heard, illegals held 20% of all construction jobs. That is a significant amount of unpaid taxes.
I'm sure there are plenty of other examples where illegals are essentially paid in cash.
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as posted in another thread:
this is what they have done for my once nice clean and quiet rural neighborhood.
(http://www.augustradio.com/4.jpg)
(http://www.augustradio.com/6.jpg)
(http://www.augustradio.com/2.jpg)
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Originally posted by Rolex
Except for a US passport, illegals work, pay income and sales taxes, gasoline taxes, buy cars, food, goods and services, commit crimes and can't afford health insurance just like most low to lower-middle income families. And they never get to collect the benefits from their taxes and Social Security contribution.
Yup they do all that with stolen SSNs and end up getting loans and credit cards that end up unpaid and it ALL comes back on the citizen that OWNS that SSN. Which in turn usually puts them into trouble with collectors.
THATS another good reason to get rid of them. They commit 50% of all the crimes in this country.
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a class action lawsuit against an employer from the private sector that ended in millions in damages would be a good first step to stemming the tide of hiring illegals.
somewhere there is a law that holds the employers financially culpable. all one has to do is prove is damages.
once is all you need for precident.
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Well not sure if you guys have heard this yet or not, but I was watching CSPAN a little while ago and evidently last night congress had a vote come up that would ALLOW illegal aliens to apply for welfare, food stamps, and government housing among some other things like the free health care they already get.
Anyway the bill failed on the vote. The Democratic leadership came back after the voting was over and decided to re open the vote so they could get it to pass!!!!!! The entire republican membership walked out. I just listened to around 20 members of congress that were pissed because the democratic leadership blatantly broke the rules of the House and on their own passed a law that REWARDS illegal aliens with US citizens tax dollars.
I've been trying to find the bill online but haven't had any luck yet, but how screwed up is that????
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Senate will probably shot it down.
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May I ask you a question?
You are talking about how to stop illegal immigration. You are discussing measures like jail employers, social programs, taxes, etc.
I am an immigrant. Legal. Not in the US , in Canada but it's the same. From my, immigrant's point of view there is no way to fix the problem with those who are already on US soil. You can cut them from the legal or half-legal job - you will get
jump of crimes.
But the question is: what is stopping you from the closing borders? What is the problem with that? 60 years we had iron curtain, and even mouse couldn't come through without passport. From the both sides, by the way. And length of that curtain was much more than US-Mexico border.
Why don't you just secure that desert?
PS: I have no shadow of intention to teach you or flame or bait or whatever you call that. I really don't understand what is the problem to secure the borders. It would be much cheaper than pay welfare.
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Vad, most in this country want the borders secured. The problem is we have wacko politians that think we need the illegals.
As for the crime issue, half the crime commited here is by illegals. How do I know? I know someone who is an ICE agent.
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Originally posted by Tango
Vad, most in this country want the borders secured. The problem is we have wacko politians that think we need the illegals.
As for the crime issue, half the crime commited here is by illegals. How do I know? I know someone who is an ICE agent.
That politicians are federal? Or local sheriffs?
I see interest in illegal workers for local and small business. I don't understand the interest of big corporation to have illegal workers. But federal and even state governments feed by big corporations. When you are talking about politicians who are interested in illegal workers I can imagine only local politicians who have some benefits from lawn cut business. I don't think that governor of California or US President have any interest in dish wash business.
But borders are secured by federals. Do you see discrepancy here?
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Originally posted by Vad
That politicians are federal? Or local sheriffs?
I see interest in illegal workers for local and small business. I don't understand the interest of big corporation to have illegal workers. But federal and even state governments feed by big corporations. When you are talking about politicians who are interested in illegal workers I can imagine only local politicians who have some benefits from lawn cut business. I don't think that governor of California or US President have any interest in dish wash business.
But borders are secured by federals. Do you see discrepancy here?
You wouldn't think so, but...
There is some evidence to show that the Government is willing to punish severely anyone who doesn't act to regulations as tightly as possible. The evidence of this goes all the way up to George Bush, his ties to appointing the DA who charged the two border patrol agents on suspect testimony from a drug smuggler, and then on back to Bush's absolute refusal to pardon the two agents, much less commute their sentences.
Basically, it shows a conspiracy to punish anyone who guards the border. Thus making the agents refuse to perform their job for fear of retribution making the border even more porous.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
You wouldn't think so, but...
There is some evidence to show that the Government is willing to punish severely anyone who doesn't act to regulations as tightly as possible. The evidence of this goes all the way up to George Bush, his ties to appointing the DA who charged the two border patrol agents on suspect testimony from a drug smuggler, and then on back to Bush's absolute refusal to pardon the two agents, much less commute their sentences.
Basically, it shows a conspiracy to punish anyone who guards the border. Thus making the agents refuse to perform their job for fear of retribution making the border even more porous.
Ok, I acknowledge that I'm idiot.
May be it was wrong idea to get into this thread. Sorry. I honestly didn't understand anything, now I understand even less.
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from my perspective the local law enforcement does nothing to enforce federal law. perhaps it's a problem of overlapping jurisdiction and professional rivalries within the various departments but I have asked the law enforcement people I know in my town if they will enforce immigration law and the response is that they run the guys driver's license if it comes back as valid they get cited for whatever infraction if not they go to the county jail to get booked for whatever charges and they don't much care about immigration status. I'm almost certain that perhaps 50% of the workforce in my area of town is here illegally from mexico and central america.
the big story on the news here is about a colombian family here illegally since 1992. they own a home and are all employed (let that sink in, they own their own home) they somehow got found out and after going through the process they were ordered to be deported and were arrested at their home. their friends and supporters mounted such a media campaign that the congressional reps from two districts petitioned the president to allow them a stay until such a time as new laws could be presented in congress to change their status. as I understand it they have been granted a temporary reprieve.
I haven't been following the story too closely so I may have some errors in what I have typed here. the guys in the shop are all involved because all of them were here illegally at one point or another and probably have family members who still are and this is where I have gotten the gist of this story.
my question is how can you enforce a law that a good percentage of the population does not want enforced? in this particular case there was probably enough pressure placed on two representatives by their constituancy to get them to respond rapidly.
immigration policy may well be the issue that creates a rift within our society and could be the beginning of greater social problems on down the road a way.
I believe that in the not too distant future we will see further relaxation on the borders and perhaps an economic unification of all of north america and the caribbean basin probably modelled after the EU. lamentably the cost of this unification will be bourne by the united states and canadian tax payers as we drag mexico and the caribbean kicking and screaming into the twentyfirst century.
flame away.
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Originally posted by Vad
Ok, I acknowledge that I'm idiot.
May be it was wrong idea to get into this thread. Sorry. I honestly didn't understand anything, now I understand even less.
Well, to sum up...
Bush on the surface demoted this one attorney from a position in his cabinet to a DA in Texas. Now, this either was an actual demotion, or he was placed there with purpose and intent.
This one case comes along where border patrol agents are chasing a drug smuggler near the border. The drug smuggler goes to shoot at them, but he gets shot first when the agents reacted to being threatened. The smuggler gets shot in the side of the butt cheek.
Everyone shows up, takes evidence... The agent's supervisor was there, so they tell him what happened, then thought they didn't have to file a report because of it.
The DA then decides to prosecute on the basis that them not filing a report showed intent to cover up the shooting. He offers immunity to the smuggler, who continued to smuggle marijuana during and after the trial, on the basis that he would testify against the agents.
The DA argues that he didn't have a gun, even though testimonies from the smuggler's family in Mexico showed that he always carried a gun. The DA then withholds a lot more evidence and the agents get convicted and sentenced to 12 years in prison. Afterwards when the jury is shown the withheld evidence, they said they would have never even considered convicting the agents. Very much a Mike Nifong like situation.
When Bush is confronted in a town hall meeting about pardoning the agents, he immediately comes to the defense of the DA, even though that was not what the question was about. This shows that the DA wasn't 'Demoted' accidentally.
To most people, this shows that DA's would be willing to harshly over punish even the most minor procedural infraction committed by the border patrol agents. Thus, an unfenced border suddenly becomes unprotected as the agents don't want to get prosecuted for something they might accidentally do. And since this man was directly appointed by Bush, it could be a top level conspiracy to open the borders.
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Originally posted by Tango
As for the crime issue, half the crime commited here is by illegals. How do I know? I know someone who is an ICE agent.
LMAO@Tango. Why not cite a more credible source than "I know someone.".
I have it on good authority that Oswold acted alone. How do I know? I know someone, who knows someone else that knows yet another person that knows a CIA agent.
ack-ack
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Ack, my brother has been an Immgration officer for the past 15 years. He can tell you alot of stories of the crap he has to deal with. 99.9% of all the illegals they pick up have commited crimes in this country. Anything from ID theft to murder.
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So if all these illegals are sent back to where they came from, who will do the jobs they are doing for the same money?
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100% of them have committed a crime. They are here illegally
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
So if all these illegals are sent back to where they came from, who will do the jobs they are doing for the same money?
We don't need the jobs done for the same amount of money.
Just because they can find someone to do your job for 3$ an hour, does not mean it is right..
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
You're full of chit. Not only do they file tax returns, many of them file returns w/ false W2's merely so they can get a refund.
They can't get a refund with a false W2 any more than you can. If they are, then that is the fault of the IRS. The ones filing using an individual taxpayer number do get a refund of overpaid taxes, just like you do.
Illegal aliens paid $7 billion in Social Security contributions and $1.5 billion in Medicare payments last year that will payout no benefits to them. Billions more were paid in federal and state income taxes. They also paid unemployment insurance, property taxes, gasoline taxes, sales taxes, road tolls, taxes on gas, cigarettes and alcohol. They bought food, electricity, water, gas, clothing, internet services, phone service, cars, etc, while providing labor and services.
Illegal aliens are not eligible for food stamps, Social Security, Medicare, unemployment, or college financial aid, but they are treated in emergency rooms, and their children get a K-12 education.
Areas near the border get the short end of the stick because they usually arrive broke and are a drain on local services. States that bear an unfair burden should be more forcefully seeking a fairer distribution of appropriation from Washington on federal programs, since it's the federal governments fault for not doing more to curtail illegal entry at the border. On a national scale, most economists will tell you their contribution vs. cost is a wash. If that were not so, why would businesses be so stridently lobbying Washington to not enact stronger anti-illegal alien laws?
Half of all felonies are committed by illegal aliens? Now that's a whopper of a fish tale. Two million people are in US prisons and jails, with the total alien prisoners equaling about 70,000. Note the italics? Alien and Illegal Aliens are not the same. Fifty percent of the total aliens incarcerated are illegal aliens. That 1.6% of the total prisoners. Americas jails and prisons are full of Americans.
Sorry for the adult tone of this post. I know unemotional reason irks the watermelon out of you.
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Originally posted by Hornet33
Well not sure if you guys have heard this yet or not, but I was watching CSPAN a little while ago and evidently last night congress had a vote come up that would ALLOW illegal aliens to apply for welfare, food stamps, and government housing among some other things like the free health care they already get.
Anyway the bill failed on the vote. The Democratic leadership came back after the voting was over and decided to re open the vote so they could get it to pass!!!!!! The entire republican membership walked out. I just listened to around 20 members of congress that were pissed because the democratic leadership blatantly broke the rules of the House and on their own passed a law that REWARDS illegal aliens with US citizens tax dollars.
I've been trying to find the bill online but haven't had any luck yet, but how screwed up is that????
One of the posts in here stated that Illegals DON'T receive help from the government...then WHY was this bill necessary?
Nice summary of the debacle: Here’s how it went down. The House of Representatives, like all democratic legislatures, provides for what is called a “Motion to Recommit.” It’s one of the many minority rights built into the structure of the legislative process. Basically, a properly led majority party in the House – unlike in the Senate – can pass pretty much any bill it wants to. It can swat down minority amendments, or even disallow their introduction in the first place. In order to give minority members a semblance of dignity in such circumstances, they are usually permitted one more vote, before a major bill’s final passage, to send the bill back to committee. A good example of this would be a budget bill: Republicans don’t want to just vote against the Democrat budget, so they propose their own in the form of the motion to recommit, so at least they can have something they’re for. Now, because majority parties are in control of things and presumably have competent leadership, these procedural votes are typically formalities.
Until this year. In the seven months since the Democrats took control of Congress and, as now appears evident, elected the most incompetent speaker in American history, Republicans have passed one motion to recommit after another. They have cleverly written their motions so as to make it difficult for Democrats to cavalierly vote against them. Such was the case last night. Before the vote on the Agriculture spending bill for the next fiscal year, Republicans offered a nifty little motion to recommit so that illegal immigrants would not receive taxpayer funded government welfare. (My compliments to whoever thought that one up.)
Well, because a few of the Democrats can’t afford to have an ad in their next campaign saying he wanted to give illegal immigrants federal funds, Nancy Pelosi’s duct-taped majority sprung another leak. The motion to recommit, whose passage would scuttle the Democrats’ bill offering taxpayer benefits to illegal immigrants, was on the verge of passage, with 215 votes in favor and 213 votes opposed. Yet another ring was about to run around Pelosi and her bumbling leadership team.
Then it happened.
The presiding officer, the guy in the big chair with the gavel, was Democrat Congressman Michael McNulty, who would apparently make a compelling contestant on Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?, gaveled the vote closed – repeat, closed – when it was 215 to 213. Republicans win. Except when McNulty got the tally from the Clerk and realized what happened, he and the Democrat leader conspired to “correct” their mistake, after the gavel had fallen.
Angry Republicans started asking questions, primarily one beginning with the words, “what” and “the”. Republican Leader John Boehner stood up and asked the same question, politely, and all McNulty said was that the “voting machine is down.” (The House’s electronic voting machine doesn’t just “go down”, incidentally: it was more likely turned off to hide the evidence of the crime.) A few minutes of strange rustlings over on the Democrat side of the dais ensued until finally Rep. McNulty spoke up again and said, “The Chair prematurely called the vote at 214-214 [a lie], while there were votes being entered [illegal]. After all the cards [whose?] were added, the final [illegal] vote was 212 to 216, nay. Sorry suckers, it’s Schlitz O’Clock!” (Okay, I added the last part.)
Except here’s the thing. The vote was closed. Not open. Not ajar. Closed. The rules don’t allow for McNulty’s personal problem with premature e-gavel-ation. He screwed up and cost the Democrats the vote. But in Nancy Pelosi’s America, votes only count when Democrats win: so she cheated, and bent a once-proud and honorable political party into an instrument of despotism. Jaw-dropping as it may sound, it’s not an exaggeration to say that for a few minutes last night, the United States was not a representative democracy.
Democrats came out to the floor this morning, admitted they made an honest mistake, and suggested we let bygones be bygones. That’s all well and good, except for this: when a motion to recommit passes, no other votes are taken! The Agriculture bill is sent back to the House committee, not to the Senate for further action. And on top of that, the Democrats even tried to expunge the record. They’re hoping the American people don’t notice. In short, they think you’re even less on the ball than Congressman McNulty.
(And for those of you who are trying so desperately to compare it to the Medicare vote that was held open for three hours, I give you this. The House requires a minimum of 15 minutes for a vote; however, the vote can stay open as long as needed, until the strike of the gavel when the vote is properly tallied. That early morning in 2003, we won, fair and square. Democrats had every right to find it annoying – I would have in their shoes –, but what we did was no way illegal or unruly. What’s amazing is that after we took the Democrats to school for 12 years, they’d still rather cheat than learn.)
Heeh, that was Tom Delay link (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/TomDeLay/2007/08/03/house_democrats_fail_democracy_101)
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Originally posted by Rolex
Illegal aliens are not eligible for food stamps, Social Security, Medicare, unemployment, or college financial aid, but they are treated in emergency rooms, and their children get a K-12 education.
BS. All it takes is for them to steal someones SSN and they get can get food stamps and can apply for anything else. The problem is the owner of that SSN is held responsible when the illegal runs up bills and doesn't pay them when they skip town.
As for thiers kids education, how many of them are in school and can't speak english? ALOT of them. The school in Dequeen, Arkansas is about 50% hispanic and many of them have to have Spanish speaking teachers. Just that much more money being wasted on illegals.
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Originally posted by Rolex
.........................................
Half of all felonies are committed by illegal aliens? Now that's a whopper of a fish tale. Two million people are in US prisons and jails, with the total alien prisoners equaling about 70,000. Note the italics? Alien and Illegal Aliens are not the same. Fifty percent of the total aliens incarcerated are illegal aliens. That 1.6% of the total prisoners. Americas jails and prisons are full of Americans.................... .............
Sorry for the adult tone of this post. I know unemotional reason irks the watermelon out of you.
Can't speak to % of total crimes, but there are LOTS more than 70k in jails:
As Investors Business Daily reported in March 2005:
"The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California's prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces."
Citing an Urban Institute study, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies Steven Camorata noted in 2004: "Roughly 17 percent of the prison population at the federal level are illegal aliens. That's a huge number since illegal aliens only account for about 3 percent of the total population."
Former California Gov. Pete Wilson places the percentage of illegal aliens in U.S. prisons even higher. In 2001, he told Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly:
"We had problems related to the costs of educating children who were acknowledged to be in the country illegally, healthcare costs. One in five in our prison population were illegal immigrants who had been convicted of a felony after entering the country illegally."
The Federation for American Immigration Reform also turned to the Justice Department to get statistics on criminal aliens. They report:
"In March 2000, Congress made public Department of Justice statistics showing that, over the previous five years, the INS had released over 35,000 criminal aliens instead of deporting them. Over 11,000 of those released went on to commit serious crimes, over 1,800 of which were violent ones [including 98 homicides, 142 sexual assaults, and 44 kidnappings].
link (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/27/114208.shtml)
This guy has an interesting take:Fortunately, a number of congressmen requested that the General Accountability Office (GAO) investigate and report information on criminal aliens incarcerated in federal and state prisons and local jails. The resulting GAO report, published in April 2005, revealed that illegal aliens make up 27% of the prison population. (The oft-cited figure of 12 million illegal aliens in the country means that they make up just 4% of the general population.)
Since illegal aliens are unlikely to be committing white-collar crimes, that figure likely underestimates the amount of violent crime committed by illegal aliens. Using the GAO report, Representative Steve King of Iowa points out that 25 Americans, on average, are killed by illegal aliens every day (about evenly split between motor vehicle accidents and outright murder).
Do the math: That works out to more than 9,000 deaths per year, or more than 36,000 deaths over the past four years. That's more than ten times the number of Americans killed in Iraq over the past four years!
Oddly, I've seen people in my hometown protesting against the war in Iraq, but I've never seen anyone protesting against the illegal alien invasion that is killing tens of thousands of Americans right here on our own soil.
link (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2007/270707Statistics.htm)
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rolex and 2bi8ghorn... I don't know where you get the figures about 7 billion being paid out to false ss cards... if that is the case we need to shut down SS... I mean... wow.. 7billon a year free coming into it and it still won't work!
The vast majority of illegals work under the table... for cash. there is no workmans comp or SS or medicare or health benifiets paid... they work for construction and farm and landscaping jobs that are under the table.
They do indeed have anchor babies while here and they are the biggest drain on our prison and justice system along with out medical and education system. They drain far more than they put in...
They do not have car insurance. The vast majority are driving without car insurance or a drivers license.
2bighorn.. I would have it so that the free market ruled it.. I would have no real borders... the difference is.. for that to work.... some things would have to be in place....
no such thing as an anchor baby... unless one of your parents is a citizen... you aren't.
no free schooling... you come here you leave the kids behind.
No free medical... if your employer won't pay... you don't have it.
No SS for anyone.
No medicare for anyone
Have to be from now on I guess.. or refund everyone who has paid in to SS and medicare along with interest.
That isn't going to happen so... enforce the laws we have or don't enforce any of em on me.
If it is illegal to have a false SS card then put anyone in jail who has one.
If it is illegal to cross the border without papers then arrest anyone who does so.
If it is illegal to hire a non citizen then arrest and imprison any employer who does so.
lazs
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The main point, as far as i see it, is that they don't belong here.
Going to Storch's post. Anyone see the irony about how a bunch of illegal aliens protest about how unfair it is for other illegals to be deported, and 9/10 times they win.
Imagine what would happen if large mobs of americans went from town to town and protested businesses that were hiring illegals. First off the organizer of that protest would automatically be deemed the villian, and a racist in the public eye from the media.
Next, the illegals themselves would organize and protest the protestors.
Next, there woud be violent clashes between the two groups, with alot of people being arrested and released and things would probably escalate into some kind of crazy mad max street war.
OR: The gov't, state, and city, could allow the people that "protect and serve" to do there jobs, including arresting illegal aliens (criminals) on the spot and send them to a detention center to be tagged, and shipped back to wherever they come from.
Read the post by Karnak who can't even get his WIFE here legally.
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Originally posted by lazs2
and yet... somehow... we survived without the huge amounts of illegals... somehow we managed to get people who were high school or less graduates to build houses for $25-50 an hour... somehow... 3 of them did the same job 10 illegals did.. or are you one who claims that the homes are better built with more quality now that illegals are doing it?
Kids did work and do work at denny's. The cannery in the town next to me was at a college town... it ran seasonaly like they all do right now and it was full of housewives and kids helping to pay their education...
Take any factory and chase out the illegals and the next day all the jobs are filled with legals.
Jail the employers.. they are the problem.
lazs
Hear, Hear! :aok
Regards,
Sun
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Originally posted by Rolex
They can't get a refund with a false W2 any more than you can. If they are, then that is the fault of the IRS.
If a person finds a way to defraud the system, then succeeds at it, it is then the system's fault and not the perpetrator's fault?
YIKES! :O
Regards,
Sun
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Yep... these masterminds can get social security cards and drive to work but they can't fill out a tax return?
I know for a fact that the landscapers and mexicans waiting out in the parking lots of home depots and the roofer crews are all getting paid slave labor wages and all under the table.
lazs
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Hi bj229r,
I don't see how this shows 50% of all felonies are committed by illegal aliens.
Let's talk about statistics...
Citizens can't violate immigration laws, a federal offense, so all people held in federal prisons for immigration offenses are going to be illegal aliens. Illegal aliens caught and deported are held in federal custody until deportation. That is one reason you see such a high percent of illegal aliens as federal prisoners. It does not mean they have all committed a felony other than the immigration felony.
I have no reason to doubt Gov. Wilson's comment about 20% of the state prison population being illegal aliens with felony convictions, considering the high rate of illegal aliens in California. But that does not translate across the nation as a whole.
Your second link is factually wrong. The study quoted had no breakdown between illegal and legal aliens. The term "criminal alien" encompasses any foreign-born criminal, including legal residents.
Statistics are like lampposts. The function is to illuminate, but drunks use them to prop themselves up.
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The democrats are building their house upon the sand. After a time, those from whom they are buying votes will pursue their own agenda and it likely won't include those who bought their office. Of course those who are selling us out don't even really care about their own political party. They care only about their own personal power/comfort and in the short term they may satisfy their goal. The smarter ones know where this eventually leads which is why they want to take our guns.
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Originally posted by Sundowner
If a person finds a way to defraud the system, then succeeds at it, it is then the system's fault and not the perpetrator's fault?
YIKES! :O
Regards,
Sun
Correct. Tell me how to use a false W2 to get an undeserved refund. The taxpayer W2 with SSAN or taxpayer ID number is matched to the employer supplied W2 and the amount of earnings and deductions matched to the deposits made quarterly by the employer.
I suppose I could deposit the money throughout a year and get the money back the following year, right? Clever plan. ;)
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It does seem odd that we can't even get figures.
When you search to find out how many illegals don't have car insurance the best you get is "no one knows" you do find that of all the illegals pulled over... about half don't have a valid license or insurance. That sounds about right in my area.
I also note that when you make a raid on a cannery or factory and weed out the illegal aliens... sometimes half the work force and obviously the ones rolex talks about that have phony SS card...
That the jobs are filled the next day by legal citizens with valid SS cards...
Now.. if we got rid of all the illegals working at these "good" jobs.. an easy thing to do...
We are left with only the amount that are working under the table and that amount won't change unless the employers are jailed.. they don't pay into the system in any case and are only a drain.
Rolex seems to be saying that the aliens are a plus since they are putting into the system illegally and not able to get it back out...
First of all... if they were gone... the 7 billion would not go away... the jobs would be filled.
At some point... there is going to be tougher ID laws and better SS identity so that these illegals with crap ID will not be able to use it in any case. It is a certainty.
If our SS system can't hold up with a paltry half a million contributors who MAY never get anything out of it... it is doomed in any case.
lazs
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Originally posted by Trell
We don't need the jobs done for the same amount of money.
Just because they can find someone to do your job for 3$ an hour, does not mean it is right..
Never said it was right.
So who you going to blame when your cost of living goes way up? You have to think past the end of your nose and see all the repercussions, for you won't see your all American doing the menial jobs for the same wage.
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Use 'national' guard for what it was designed for and protected own bloody borders. Simple solution.
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
Never said it was right.
So who you going to blame when your cost of living goes way up? You have to think past the end of your nose and see all the repercussions, for you won't see your all American doing the menial jobs for the same wage.
If you don't have a problem with bringing in Aliens to do the manual labor, what about the other labor?
We can import Software designers, accountants, electriactions, from china and pay them half what Americans get payed,
Hey it will lower our cost of living right?
I know outsourced Software devs in china make 10-15k a year, lets offer them a job in America and only pay them 30k, Hey its over half what Devs here make, think about the savings...
Almost any job can be done cheaper of we import the labor from somewhere else..
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milo... why would the cost of living go "way up"?
silly alarmist bs like this we have seen before... when the brasero program was shut down the alarmists (of both parties) screeeeeeched that tomato's would go up to $5 a piece...
Yeah.. because we had sorter wagons that had 40 illegals on em. when we couldn't get almost free slave labor anymore an infared sensor was put on these beasts and what did take 40 now takes 3
same for construction... what 10 illegals do.... 2 legals can do. My brother runs crews of plasterers.. he is a 30 year journeyman... he says the illegals are laughable and if he could put together a crew like we had even twenty years ago... 3 guys would outproduce 30 of the hardworking but unskilled illegals he has to deal with now for his employer. and... the quality would be twice as good... with less waste.
These illegals have been on the wall for years some of em and still can't work smart... look at their country fer chrisakes... if they had any talent it would be a garden spot... nope... centuries of doing with nothing have ruined them as a work force for anything but weeding with a hoe.
landscapers even here have given up... they can't teach the illegals... they just pay em nothing or for the job and look the other way as 4 guys run around like buffoons....
Hard working is not the same as smart working. amount of sweat does not equal amount of acceptable work put out.
The ones born here and raised as Americans are different of course.. so long as they don't let their relatives from "the old country" influence them.
No... we won't have a lower standard of living... we will have a higher standard of quality.
lazs
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I’ll support hard core immigration reform – kick them all out – IF it is retroactive. Anyone who came here after the Mayflower; pack up your bags and go home. Be a good example.
I was watching a History Channel on the States and there was a piece about Texas. Turns out, according to the piece, Texas was originally settled by illegal immigrants coming from the east coast. Mexico couldn’t stop the flood of settlers even though they originally wanted some. Now that is funny.
:noid :noid
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Originally posted by Rolex
Correct.
They can't get a refund with a false W2 any more than you can. If they are, then that is the fault of the IRS.
So if I come up with a clever way to murder you and your entire family with a chainsaw, and get away with it, it's the Police dept's fault you're dead?
:lol
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Originally posted by Rolex
.
Illegal aliens paid $7 billion in Social Security contributions and $1.5 billion in Medicare payments last year that will payout no benefits to them. Billions more were paid in federal and state income taxes.
More smoke and mirrors, half truths.
A new study from the Center for Immigration Studies is one of the first to estimate the impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Based on Census Bureau data, the study estimates that households headed by illegal aliens used $10 billion more in government services than they paid in taxes in 2002. These figures are only for the federal government; costs at the state and local level are also likely to be significant. The study also finds that if illegals were given amnesty, the fiscal deficit at the federal level would grow to nearly $29 billion.
Rolex, can some illegal aliens come live in your home? I mean, they contribute to the bottom line and all so they should be a welcome part of your household, right? How about in your back yard, would that be ok?
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my point isn't that illegals are petitioning congressional reps. it's registered voters prompted by media driven hype on the latin stations in every major market across the nation.
the hispanic consumer is now the largest minority in the country and corporations will cater to the market. as more and more of the hispanics become politically involved they will have increasingly more power at the polls. I know the guys that work for me are all actively working to become naturalized citizens and to a man are very interested in the political process. the interest is so high that at times I have to make them shut up and work because the arguments get heated as political discussions always do.
unlike born americans the naturalized citizen is aware of the power of the individual vote applied en masse and you had better believe the naturalized citizen is involved in the process.
while the apathetic white majority does nothing minority lobbying groups with strong voter turnout and quickly responding voter base will in fact influence policy in this country in all areas of the political process.
when a radio station calls for emails and faxes to be generated the voting block floods the congressman and the senator. often times the radio station has fill in the blanks forms to be filled out and mailed sent to the voting block so that the reps are bombarded by all methods, fax, email, snail mail and telephone calls.
politians who want to keep their jobs are obligated to respond.
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Hi bj229r,
I don't see how this shows 50% of all felonies are committed by illegal aliens.
I don't assert that it does---however their crimes are obviously way out of proportion per capita
I have no reason to doubt Gov. Wilson's comment about 20% of the state prison population being illegal aliens with felony convictions, considering the high rate of illegal aliens in California. But that does not translate across the nation as a whole.
You said the total national prison population of illegals is about 70k....in Cali ALONE it's 50k---, meaning the rest of the USA is only 20? (I'm going to have to assume that the term PRISON is separate from deportation centers--thus these folks have committed felonies other than immigration)
Your second link is factually wrong. The study quoted had no breakdown between illegal and legal aliens. The term "criminal alien" encompasses any foreign-born criminal, including legal residents.
..Oooookkkkkkkk...thats a bit picky on your part I think---it's obvious they are talking about the same people
The resulting GAO report, published in April 2005, revealed that illegal aliens make up 27% of the prison population. (The oft-cited figure of 12 million illegal aliens in the country means that they make up just 4% of the general population.)
Found this too In the population study of a sample of 55,322 illegal aliens, researchers found that they were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty-eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990.
They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. One arrest incident may include multiple offenses, a fact that explains why there are nearly one and half times more offenses than arrests. Almost all of these illegal aliens were arrested for more than 1 offense. Slightly more than half of the 55,322 illegal aliens had between 2 and 10 offenses.
About 45 percent of all offenses were drug or immigration offenses. About 15 percent were property-related offenses such as burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and property damage. About 12 percent were for violent offenses such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes.
The balance was for such offenses as traffic violations, including driving under the influence; fraud --including forgery and counterfeiting; weapons violations; and obstruction of justice.
link (http://www.sierratimes.com/06/06/23/152_163_101_8_68330.htm)
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Originally posted by Rolex
Correct. Tell me how to use a false W2 to get an undeserved refund. The taxpayer W2 with SSAN or taxpayer ID number is matched to the employer supplied W2 and the amount of earnings and deductions matched to the deposits made quarterly by the employer.
I suppose I could deposit the money throughout a year and get the money back the following year, right? Clever plan. ;)
Apparently this stuff DOES happen:About a decade ago the IRS created a special Individual Tax Identification Number (TIN) for “foreigners” who don’t qualify for a Social Security number but want to file taxes. The agency has so far issued 10.7 million TINs, including 1.5 million last year alone. Many illegal immigrants also use the numbers to apply for credit, open bank accounts and even buy houses.
The IRS knows well that millions of illegal immigrants use TINs to file taxes annually. In fact, a few years ago the tax agency discovered 7.9 million W-2 forms with names that didn’t match a Social Security number. Not surprisingly, the majority of the forms were filed in states with large illegal immigrant populations such as Texas, California and Florida.[/i]
This year tax preparers in several Border States are reporting a huge surge in the number of illegal aliens requiring tax filing services. One Phoenix Arizona company that caters to Hispanics is making a killing. The owner says that the majority of his 10,000 customers filing taxes are illegal immigrants without Social Security numbers.
In Atlanta one tax preparer has seen an equally large increase in illegal immigrants filing taxes to document residency and good morale character in case U.S. lawmakers approve an amnesty bill. In Los Angeles a once-struggling tiny tax preparation office in the inner city is now booming with illegal immigrants racing to beat next week’s filing deadline.
Illegal aliens across the country are openly speaking to the media about their newfound tax filings. Diggers Realm writes that illegal immigrants have learned that, since the IRS doesn’t cooperate with law enforcement and the Department of Homeland Security, they have little to fear.
link (http://www.corruptionchronicles.com/2007/04/irs_caters_to_illegal_immigran.html)
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American Indians waited to long to develop comprehensive immigration reform and look were it got them, slaughtering alien invading youropians was to little to late, if the tribes hadn't been fighting amongst themselves and pro-actively recognized an expanding immigration nightmare maybe they could have joined to defeat the problem. It wasn't until they were forced into camps that they recognized the need to combine resources which became Little Big horn and perhaps Wounded Knee "Been awhile since I read the former"
Imagine your kids living in a reservation some day because our leaders didn't recognize what this really is.
And this time building casino's will not be an option.
I really honestly believe we are in need of civil war.
2012
TJ
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
More smoke and mirrors, half truths.
Don't stop there. Tell us what was smoke, what was mirrors and what was half true.
Rolex, can some illegal aliens come live in your home? I mean, they contribute to the bottom line and all so they should be a welcome part of your household, right? How about in your back yard, would that be ok?
This is the kind of nonsense non-analogy used by talk radio and J6P with a blog. Do you think I am a proponent of illegal immigration?
Let's turn your questions around into something more meaningful. If you, your wife and girls were living in poverty in Mexico, what would you do? You would have no chance of immigrating legally because you don't have an advanced degree or special skill, so rule that out. Would you risk going across the border to find work to feed them?
The vast majority of illegal immigrants come for the same reasons your family came. Not to commit crime, but in a desperate bid to survive and try to thrive in a place with better odds.
The aliens are not your enemy. It's the businesses who hire them that are your enemy. The ones who say they're only trying to save money on labor costs - it's capitalism and the American way. The ones who say that it can't be helped and everyone else is hiring them, why shouldn't I? It's the politicians who take the lobbying money and gifts from the businesses and Chamber of Commerce in exchange for defeating improvements in border security and enforcement of work rules.
Those are the people encouraging desperate people to do desperate things.
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bj229r,
Those numbers didn't match, so the money stayed in the government coffers. No refunds go out for those, that's why the government is not truly interested in enforcing work rules. They encourage illegal aliens to use the taxpayer ID number system by saying it "may" lead to citizenship or legal status. It doesn't lead to anything except the government getting more people not paying taxes through withholding to pay taxes. The IRS only cares about collecting money. (I know that may not come as a big surprise...)
The point here is that they are paying taxes in greater and greater numbers. Reagan started the amnesty bandwagon and it's happened a few times since then. Millions of illegals suddenly became legal, but that didn't change their economic status.
They weren't talking about the same people at all. That is a crucial part of the misinformation. "Criminal aliens" include resident aliens, temporary workers and illegal aliens - all of them. The immigration rules tightened several years ago. The only people allowed to immigrate now are the cute and furry ones - the ones with degrees and money. Before that, most were poor, without strong language skills and without as much education. How successful do you think you would be going to another country without any money, language skill or education?
Poor people go to jail more than middle class people. That accounts for some of it. You don't see many programmers, doctors or engineers from India in jail.
Once again, only illegal aliens can be arrested for immigration offenses, so that skews the numbers, too. ;)
It's too bad you can't require every illegal alien being deported to take 3 American prisoners back with them. That would really clean things up.
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
Never said it was right.
So who you going to blame when your cost of living goes way up? You have to think past the end of your nose and see all the repercussions, for you won't see your all American doing the menial jobs for the same wage.
When the illegals took over siding new homes out here the framing contractors were paying American crews $1.20 to $1.45 a sq foot, they paid the illegals .80 a foot. On a 2000 sq foot home, thats an $800 - $1300 difference in wages. The end price of those houses didn't come down, it stayed the same. It just meant a higher profit margin for those framing contractors. If the illegals were deported, the price of those houses would stay the same since the framing contractor has no say in the end price of the home.
Same thing applies to the brick work and concrete work. The company building the homes sets the wages paid to the various contractors and that isn't going to go up/down based on legal or illegal workers.
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Originally posted by Rolex
Let's turn your questions around into something more meaningful. If you, your wife and girls were living in poverty in Mexico, what would you do? You would have no chance of immigrating legally because you don't have an advanced degree or special skill, so rule that out. Would you risk going across the border to find work to feed them?
Its funny how the Mexican government wants us to let thier citizens come here but when they find somone south of thier border coming into Mexico to find work, they're arrested and deported back OR sent to prison.
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Tango, it's a good thing too. mexico needs to seal up it's southern border very well or else all of central america will end up here.
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Originally posted by Tango
Ack, my brother has been an Immgration officer for the past 15 years. He can tell you alot of stories of the crap he has to deal with. 99.9% of all the illegals they pick up have commited crimes in this country. Anything from ID theft to murder.
Like I said, post some sources. "My friend told me stories" is not a credible source of information. Oh wait, you don't have any source to cite, my mistake.
ack-ack
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ALL illegals are criminals, plain and simple.
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Originally posted by storch
Tango, it's a good thing too. mexico needs to seal up it's southern border very well or else all of central america will end up here.
Yes its a good thing.
Its also a good thing if we did the same.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Like I said, post some sources. "My friend told me stories" is not a credible source of information. Oh wait, you don't have any source to cite, my mistake.
ack-ack
My source is an ICE agent. I'm sure he knows far more about the illegal problem in this country far better than you.
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Originally posted by JB88
as posted in another thread:
this is what they have done for my once nice clean and quiet rural neighborhood.
Here's a few cold chill'n in NoHo, looking for work under a "help wanted" sign.
(http://members.dslextreme.com/users/fanofhockey/images/workers.jpg)
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Originally posted by Rolex
Do you think I am a proponent of illegal immigration?
Clearly. you spread falsehoods about their net contributions to federal income when in fact they are a serious drain to the Govt. Is there any other reason you would perpetuate such lies?
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Originally posted by Rolex
The aliens are not your enemy.
No? All those violent criminals coming across our border are our friends? These illegal aliens commit a disproportionate amount of our crime. Why are you ok with this?
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Originally posted by Rolex
bj229r,..................
Those numbers didn't match, so the money stayed in the government coffers. No refunds go out for those, that's why the government is not truly interested in enforcing work rules. .................
That's not what THESE guys seem to think:Tax preparers are rushing to cash in on the surge in undocumented filers.
Phoenix-based Campos Enterprises, which specializes in the Latino market, opened six stores this year. It now has 25 locations in Arizona and one in Las Vegas.
Tony Campos, the president, estimates that 60 percent of the company's 10,000 customers are filing taxes with tax identification numbers.
One recent afternoon, a steady stream of customers walked into the Campos Enterprises location on Bethany Home Road near 51st Avenue in Glendale.
The area has a large Latino immigrant population, but Alfonso Rodriguez, 29, and his wife, Laura Aldaz, 24, had driven an hour and a half from Prescott Valley because the undocumented couple from Mexico wanted a tax preparer who spoke Spanish.
They sat down in front of a desk and opened a folder containing their W-2 forms and other documents.
One of the tax preparers typed the information into a computer while the couple's 2-year-old son played in the waiting area.
Rodriguez said he works as a cook at a restaurant. Aldaz is a cashier at the same place. The couple earned $14,000 last year. Both have phony Social Security numbers and used tax identification numbers to file with the IRS. By filing their taxes, they hoped to qualify for legalization in the future.
"It's important that we comply with the laws of this country," Aldaz said.
They also were hoping for money back. The couple walked out with good news.
"We're going to get a refund for $1,300," Aldaz said.
link (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0411taxes0411.html)
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Originally posted by Rolex
The vast majority of illegal immigrants come for the same reasons your family came. Not to commit crime, but in a desperate bid to survive and try to thrive in a place with better odds.
The aliens are not your enemy.
How I wish you witnessed what I did working as a cop in east Los Angeles, you'd be laughing at your own comments.
You alluded to it yourself, these are desperate people.. and desperate people do desperate things.. they don't stop committing desperate acts just because they are here. If they cant find a job or can't make enough to eek out an existence, they won't think twice about ripping me or you off, or committing other crimes... which is why so many of them end up getting arrested.
Previously Deported Criminal Aliens:
Link (http://www.ccjcc.info/HI-CAAP_ProjectBackground.asp)
*Deportable aliens comprised 17% of LA County’s jail population
* Within one year of their release from custody, 45% were re-arrested an average of 1.8 times.
* 87% of the re-arrests occurred in Los Angeles County
An honest class of people looking for honest work, don't go to jail this often.
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"It's important that we comply with the laws of this country," Aldaz said.
If they truly felt this way, they wouldn't have crossed the border illegally in the first place.
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How many here are of Italian origin?
Know why Italians are called wops? Because they entered the US of A without papers.
Most of them earned a living from crime, just like the Irish did before them.
Elfie, do those contracters pay income tax on their profits?
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I'm italian/catalan/african/middle eastern who knows what else but the italian/catalan/african/middle eastern is certain as they were my grandparents.
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
How many here are of Italian origin?
Know why Italians are called wops? Because they entered the US of A without papers.
Actually it meant WithOut Passport and it was physically stamped on them at ellis island... They checked in at the gate and were processed unlike our current invaders
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bj229r,
Thanks for confirming what I said. They did not have false W2 forms. They had false Social Security numbers, but used a taxpayer identification number to file their taxes. The former is issued by the Social Security Administration, the latter is issued by the IRS.
They paid taxes through withholding, received a refund for the overpaid amount, the Social Security component was paid, but no benefit can ever be collected.
___________
I didn't allude to anything, xmarine, I said it. I also said that some areas have a disproportionate burden. I said that I didn't doubt California had such a such a large percentage of illegal alien prison population. I also said that poor people commit more crimes than middle income people. Who did you arrest more of, people without jobs or middle income and above people with jobs?
And why weren't they deported by the federal government? I said why also. People are complaining about the symptoms, not the disease. The symptoms are never going to go away until the disease of the dishonest class of businessmen and politicians are jailed. But that isn't going to happen. It's always about the money.
Let me tell you what local, county, state and national bureaucrats and politicians think about police, criminals and crime. They want crime, and they want criminals to be arrested over and over. Crime is an important industry that depends on criminals. It's just business and police are just low-cost machines who think they are serving their community, but in reality, they are revenue collectors and mining the raw material for the prison and crime industry. The crime industry, like any industry, is always looking for growth. It supports lawyers, judges, clerks, prison guards, bureaucrats and hundreds of contractors and vendor companies who spend lobbying money to ensure that the industry thrives. The more tax money spent on crime, the better the industry thrives.
"God help us all if there were no more criminals," said the lobbyist to the politician.
The politician nodded.
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bj229r,
Thanks for confirming what I said. They did not have false W2 forms. They had false Social Security numbers, but used a taxpayer identification number to file their taxes. The former is issued by the Social Security Administration, the latter is issued by the IRS.
They paid taxes through withholding, received a refund for the overpaid amount, the Social Security component was paid, but no benefit can ever be collected.
MY point was they MADE up social security numbers and put them on federal documents---If the IRS and ICE ever talked to each other, we could snag about 9 million of the salamanders each year
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Its not the IRS not working with ICE, its the SSN department that won't check up on the numbers. All it takes is for them to check up on the SSN numbers and when the same number comes up in 2 differant states they need to turn it over to ICE to check up on. They don't.
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None of the problem will EVER be solved.
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Originally posted by RedTop
None of the problem will EVER be solved.
Just gimme 72 hours with absolute power! Muhahahahahaha Problem would be abated all the way to the guatemalan border LOL
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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
So I guess this doesn't apply anymore?
Maybe we should just change it to this:
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/Statue.jpg)
Before you go condemning people, maybe you should take a moment to actually REMEMBER American history, and how large a contribution so-called "undesirables" who fled here to avoid persecution, find better lives, or just be able to LIVE made in the FOUNDATION of this country.
I say if they want in, LET them in. But take measures to make sure they assimilate into American culture (but that DOESN'T mean they have to abandon their own. American culture in of ITSELF is one big mishmash of contributions). Make them take whatever citizenship classes/tests/WHATEVER are required for LEGAL immigrants, but make in mandatory for residency.
GOD, I'm so tired of the party line on this and EVERY issue. The ultra conservatives have beaten the image of America as the bastion of freedom, opportunity, justice and equality into a bloody pulp, with a President who wipes his bellybutton with the Constitution under the illusion of defending national security, while the ultra liberals are wrapped up in special interests and have had their backbones surgically removed so don't have the guts to actually put their foot down. And NONE of them give a rat's bellybutton about what's really best for the American public, or even what the American public WANTS because they all have the party leaderships' hands stuffed up their bellybutton like a bunch of ****ing ventriloquist dummies.
Can we PLEASE get a moderate voice of reason before the bleeding hearts and ultra right strip this nation of its last bit of sanity and run the country COMPLETELY into the ground? Frell, how the hell does anyone expect us to be able to rebuild someone ELSE'S nation when we can't even straighten out our own.
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Originally posted by Tango
My source is an ICE agent. I'm sure he knows far more about the illegal problem in this country far better than you.
lmao@you. Just what I figured, all talk and zero facts to back it up.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Saxman
Before you go condemning people, maybe you should take a moment to actually REMEMBER American history, and how large a contribution so-called "undesirables" who fled here to avoid persecution, find better lives, or just be able to LIVE made in the FOUNDATION of this country.
Some of the comments in this thread were probably the same ones the Irish, and Italians have heard. Same comments, just a different generation. Immigrants, illegal or legal will always be scapegoats when things don't look good.
ack-ack
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Elfie, do those contracters pay income tax on their profits?
As a subcontractor I paid my taxes. I honestly can't vouch for anyone else.
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Originally posted by Saxman
Before you go condemning people, maybe you should take a moment to actually REMEMBER American history, and how large a contribution so-called "undesirables" who fled here to avoid persecution, find better lives, or just be able to LIVE made in the FOUNDATION of this country.
I say if they want in, LET them in. But take measures to make sure they assimilate into American culture (but that DOESN'T mean they have to abandon their own.
Remember all of American history... You sort of advocate the immigration policy of the American Native Peoples...follow that policy and soon your culture is overwhelmed by a foreign culture.
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I say if they want in, LET them in. But take measures to make sure they assimilate into American culture (but that DOESN'T mean they have to abandon their own. American culture in of ITSELF is one big mishmash of contributions). Make them take whatever citizenship classes/tests/WHATEVER are required for LEGAL immigrants, but make in mandatory for residency
I wouldn't disagree with this.
Otoh, we have had limited immigration for a very long time now. I'm not sure how many people we can assimilate into our society per year.
The way it stands now, people are crossing the border illegally making themselves criminals in the process. There is little to no enforcement of our immigration laws at this point. Either enforce the laws, or change them. Doesn't seem that hard to me.
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Actually it meant WithOut Passport and it was physically stamped on them at ellis island... They checked in at the gate and were processed unlike our current invaders
This is correct.
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A little Googling and this WOP acronym is aparrently not so.
There is no record in the immigration department of any such stamp ever being used.
A better possiblility is that it is a form of Italian dialectal 'guappo' meaning "thug", ultimately from Latin vappa = "flat wine".
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Originally posted by Saxman
Before you go condemning people, maybe you should take a moment to actually REMEMBER American history, and how large a contribution so-called "undesirables" who fled here to avoid persecution, find better lives, or just be able to LIVE made in the FOUNDATION of this country.
IF they would come here with the intent to become Americans I doubt there would be that much of a problem. The problem is they come here to make a fast buck only and send it back to Mexico.
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Deport all of them, set up machine guns along the border, they come in the right way or not at all. The Irish, Scottish, and British came in through Ellis Island, or the like, and so can they.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Some of the comments in this thread were probably the same ones the Irish, and Italians have heard. Same comments, just a different generation. Immigrants, illegal or legal will always be scapegoats when things don't look good.
ack-ack
When folks couldn't cut it in the 'grand' period of immigration, they starved or went back home---this crop ends up being a net drain on our resources, so that businesses may have cheap labor. Do we REALLY need 1 million dirt-poor-illiterate-criminal-no-driving-can't-hold-their-liquor Mexicans in here EVERY year? I'm sorry their country is a pile of feces, but it isn't my fault
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Originally posted by Saxman
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
Can we PLEASE get a moderate voice of reason before the bleeding hearts and ultra right strip this nation of its last bit of sanity and run the country COMPLETELY into the ground? Frell, how the hell does anyone expect us to be able to rebuild someone ELSE'S nation when we can't even straighten out our own.
The average american from what I can tell just wants the current Laws followed as far as immigration is concerned. The complaint isn't for tougher laws.. We want the laws currently on the books enforced..period..
We don't believe in immigration reform because it is smoke and mirrors when the current law isn't being enforced. It will decide the next election regardless..
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Another border patrol agent up on Murder charges: http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0645298420070807?feedType=RSS&rpc=22&sp=true
The report does not describe what the defense says happens, until the 8th paragraph, 3rd to last paragraph overall.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Another border patrol agent up on Murder charges: http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0645298420070807?feedType=RSS&rpc=22&sp=true
The report does not describe what the defense says happens, until the 8th paragraph, 3rd to last paragraph overall.
I saw a video of that incident. The kid was just a few feet away from the agent with a rock ready to throw when he shot him. IT WAS SELF DEFENSE. The other 3 were throwing rocks as well but were a disatnce away.
It was all caught on a camera that views the border.
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Do you have that video on hand or a link?
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When the french gave us the statue of liberty... I don't think we had welfare or free medical paid for by the citizens that were already there nor did we have to teach the immigrants in our schools for free in their language and most of all...
They were legal. they came here legally and they worked and they didn't demand to have services and have their language become as important as english in America.
The border guard thing simply proves that with more guards and more enforcement their will be more accidents..
The only real solution is the simple one... arrest the criminal and traitorous employers. arrest enough of em and you won't even need a fence at the border.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
When the french gave us the statue of liberty... I don't think we had welfare or free medical paid for by the citizens that were already there nor did we have to teach the immigrants in our schools for free in their language and most of all...
They were legal. they came here legally and they worked and they didn't demand to have services and have their language become as important as english in America.
The border guard thing simply proves that with more guards and more enforcement their will be more accidents..
The only real solution is the simple one... arrest the criminal and traitorous employers. arrest enough of em and you won't even need a fence at the border.
lazs
I don't think it's an accident that these people are up for murder.