Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: 1K3 on August 02, 2007, 11:21:52 PM

Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: 1K3 on August 02, 2007, 11:21:52 PM
N1K2-J in aces high does not have automatic flap.  I understand that since AH was the first flight sim to model N1K2-J anyway.

N1K2-J's auto-flap is activated by mercury manometer that measures the angle of attack.  This makes the N1K2-J the most potent dogfighter in the late war era.

US tested Japanese fighters during and after WWII.  I wonder if US test pilots mentioned anything about N1K2-J's automatic flaps.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Saxman on August 03, 2007, 12:19:39 AM
Uh...

I seem to remember the N1K2-J in sims at LEAST as early as Aces of the Pacific. Not to mention Air Warrior. And 1942: Pacific Air War. And Warbirds...
Title: Re: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Stoney74 on August 04, 2007, 01:41:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
N1K2-J's auto-flap is activated by mercury manometer that measures the angle of attack.  This makes the N1K2-J the most potent dogfighter in the late war era.



I'll see your auto-flaps and raise you a U.S. tail-warning radar.  They probably worked as well anyway...:aok
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 04, 2007, 03:20:29 AM
From all reports, the auto-flaps on the N1K2 worked quite well.  But if they were to get that in the game then HT must remove the auto-retract feature for all planes that didn't have it.


ack-ack
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Bronk on August 04, 2007, 06:45:17 AM
Hmmm

http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=313389&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

Target fixation?

;)

Bronk
Title: Re: Re: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Widewing on August 04, 2007, 09:11:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Stoney74
I'll see your auto-flaps and raise you a U.S. tail-warning radar.  They probably worked as well anyway...:aok


Better yet, I'll raise you the USAAF G-Suit. By October of 1944, every 8th AF fighter pilot was wearing a pneumatically inflated G-Suit. This allowed them almost 2 additional Gs prior to blackout. This was a major advantage and has been generally overlooked by historians. By 1945, these were being issued to all fighter units in the USAAF.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Re: Re: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Stoney74 on August 04, 2007, 09:19:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Better yet, I'll raise you the USAAF G-Suit. By October of 1944, every 8th AF fighter pilot was wearing a pneumatically inflated G-Suit. This allowed them almost 2 additional Gs prior to blackout. This was a major advantage and has been generally overlooked by historians. By 1945, these were being issued to all fighter units in the USAAF.


Touche'...I'll take two...:D
Title: Re: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Masherbrum on August 04, 2007, 11:21:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
N1K2-J in aces high does not have automatic flap.  I understand that since AH was the first flight sim to model N1K2-J anyway.

N1K2-J's auto-flap is activated by mercury manometer that measures the angle of attack.  This makes the N1K2-J the most potent dogfighter in the late war era.

US tested Japanese fighters during and after WWII.  I wonder if US test pilots mentioned anything about N1K2-J's automatic flaps.
"Most Potent"?   I'd have to go with the Hellcat in the PTO.   It pwned ANY Japanese fighter.......period.
Title: Re: Re: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Karnak on August 04, 2007, 01:03:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
"Most Potent"?   I'd have to go with the Hellcat in the PTO.   It pwned ANY Japanese fighter.......period.

Only due to average pilot skill and the lack of effective quality control later in the war.  The N1K2-J and Ki-84 as designed were quite capable of going at it with the F6F.

You need to separate out the issues.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Masherbrum on August 04, 2007, 01:29:06 PM
I'm comparing planes not pilots.   The wing area of the Hellcat was the largest of ANY WWII single engined plane.    

The piss poor production numbers of FLYABLE Nik2-J's do not even allow this fighter to "hold such a title".    Japan chose to start it, they paid in spades.   They banked on "nimble, fast, tight turning, unarmored cockpits and un-sealed fuel tanks" on almost every plane, and it was their undoing.    The US had superior planes to counter ANY Japanese plane produced.
Title: Re: Re: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: 1K3 on August 04, 2007, 02:13:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Stoney74
I'll see your auto-flaps and raise you a U.S. tail-warning radar.  They probably worked as well anyway...:aok


Tail warning radar should be an easy fix.  Think of this as "Automatic Check-6":D

When there's an enemy at your 6 while flying a P-38 for example, this text should appear on yyour text buffer.

TAIL RADAR:  Check 6
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Saxman on August 04, 2007, 04:18:03 PM
Actually, it should be a Check Six when ANY plane is behind you, bad guy OR friendly. The alarm went off any time ANY plane passed across the rear.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Fulmar on August 04, 2007, 04:24:32 PM
How far out did this radar reach?  D600? or something farther out?  I would find it annoying during a vulch fest.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Squire on August 04, 2007, 05:26:34 PM
The late war G-suits and the gyroscopic gunsights (Gyro II, K-14 ect), were the two most usefull innovations to the Allied fighters in the latter part of the war.

The tail warning receiver was next to useless, from what I have read. I suppose in a night fighter or night bomber there might have been a real use for it, but limited. You would be taking some serious risks relying on that device as info as to wether you were being attacked by an enemy fighter.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Sweet2th on August 04, 2007, 06:17:35 PM
If you add all that you got to add in the GUIDED BOMB as well.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: 1K3 on August 04, 2007, 07:00:14 PM
whoever mentioned the tail radar and the G suit just opened a ton of can of worms....

Oh wait, there's no need for G suit.  The AH pilot is already a superman.  

N1K2-J's auto flaps are mechanical features, just like the the slats on 109/la-5.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Squire on August 04, 2007, 08:07:35 PM
I for one would like to see the auto retracting flaps done away with, and a more realistic model of pilot stamina, and G-LOC. Would cut down on the stick stirring nonsense.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Karnak on August 05, 2007, 01:14:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
I'm comparing planes not pilots.   The wing area of the Hellcat was the largest of ANY WWII single engined plane.    

The piss poor production numbers of FLYABLE Nik2-J's do not even allow this fighter to "hold such a title".    Japan chose to start it, they paid in spades.   They banked on "nimble, fast, tight turning, unarmored cockpits and un-sealed fuel tanks" on almost every plane, and it was their undoing.    The US had superior planes to counter ANY Japanese plane produced.

Really?

What does "The wing area of the Hellcat was the largest of ANY WWII single engined plane." have to do with anything?  It is taken completely out of context.

As to the lack of self sealing tanks and armor, that is true of the B5N, D3A, Ki-43, A6M and G4M1 and G4M2, but not of just about every other Japanese combat aircraft.  The Ki-61 is fully protected, the Ki-44 is, the Ki-67 is, the Ki-84 is, the J2M3 is, the H8K2 is, the N1K is.  The Japanese were way behind the curve no doubt, and behind in technology too, but they certainly weren't stuck in that mindset for the duration.

Read before spouting misinformation.  At least you weren't claiming they were made of rice paper and bamboo like I have seen some people do here.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: bozon on August 05, 2007, 09:05:14 AM
N1k's were great fighters if you managed to start the engine.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: CAP1 on August 05, 2007, 08:31:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
From all reports, the auto-flaps on the N1K2 worked quite well.  But if they were to get that in the game then HT must remove the auto-retract feature for all planes that didn't have it.

1)that'd be GREAT if they did that!!! the auto retract....to me anyway.......if REALLY annoying:cry

ack-ack
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: DaddyAck on August 05, 2007, 08:37:46 PM
LOL Thats too funny, "bamboo and rice paper" :rofl
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: C(Sea)Bass on August 06, 2007, 03:40:57 AM
lol made of bamboo and rice paper...

 the truth is they ran on rice and shot bamboo bullets

you silly people
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Masherbrum on August 06, 2007, 06:05:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Really?

What does "The wing area of the Hellcat was the largest of ANY WWII single engined plane." have to do with anything?  It is taken completely out of context.

As to the lack of self sealing tanks and armor, that is true of the B5N, D3A, Ki-43, A6M and G4M1 and G4M2, but not of just about every other Japanese combat aircraft.  The Ki-61 is fully protected, the Ki-44 is, the Ki-67 is, the Ki-84 is, the J2M3 is, the H8K2 is, the N1K is.  The Japanese were way behind the curve no doubt, and behind in technology too, but they certainly weren't stuck in that mindset for the duration.

Read before spouting misinformation.  At least you weren't claiming they were made of rice paper and bamboo like I have seen some people do here.
Wing Area = More stable at slower speeds, and more lift.   I figured you "knew it all", you let me down.  

The Hellcat was the SUPERIOR fighter.    Not our fault the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and relied on "captured resources".    

So about 1/2 the planes had self-sealing tanks, got it.    That still is paltry.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Viking on August 06, 2007, 07:17:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Wing Area = More stable at slower speeds, and more lift.   I figured you "knew it all", you let me down.  


Wing area means nothing by its own. Wing loading on the other hand, or better yet: Lift loading; the Hellcat was a heavy plane. You don't let me down - I didn't expect more from you.


Btw. even the planes Karnak listed as not having armor or self-sealing fuel tanks were upgraded with such protection in later models. Only the 1942ish Japanese planes were unarmored. For instance the A6M2 we have in AH2 is unprotected, while the A6M5 we have is protected.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Masherbrum on August 06, 2007, 07:55:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
Wing area means nothing by its own. Wing loading on the other hand, or better yet: Lift loading; the Hellcat was a heavy plane. You don't let me down - I didn't expect more from you.


Btw. even the planes Karnak listed as not having armor or self-sealing fuel tanks were upgraded with such protection in later models. Only the 1942ish Japanese planes were unarmored. For instance the A6M2 we have in AH2 is unprotected, while the A6M5 we have is protected.
You ALWAYS let me down, you were PNG'd.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Fyre on August 06, 2007, 09:14:12 AM
There's no doubt that the George was an excellent design, maximized as much as possible to counter the Hellcat and Corsair.

However, it makes little sense to take the attitude that the production and operational problems that bedeviled it in combat were somehow irrelevant.

It was fully a match for the American Naval fighters IF the engines were properly manufactured, IF they were properly tuned, IF they were running on 130 octane aviation fuel, IF they were manned by properly trained and combat experienced pilots, and IF the proper tactics were employed, IF one discounts the fact that the George's pilot had only a bullet proof pane of glass in the front of the canopy for pilot protection and no armor plating behind him whatsoever, and IF one ignores the all too often brittle landing gear.

The fact is, the Japanese simply could not match the quantitative and qualitative superiority of the American manufacturers.

In perhaps the most famous clash between the George and U.S. carrier fighters over Matsuyama airfield, the 343rd Kokutai, manned by Japan's best pilots, and with altitude and complete surprise on their side, achieved, according to Saburo Sakai, a tremendous victory over the American pilots.

The actual losses were:  TF58 lost 14 fighters, some being pushed overboard after returning to their carriers, and 8 pilots.  The 343rd Kokutain lost 15 fighters and 14 pilots.

That's as even as it gets.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Viking on August 06, 2007, 10:03:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
You ALWAYS let me down, you were PNG'd.


:lol
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: bozon on August 06, 2007, 10:29:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Fyre
There's no doubt that the George was an excellent design, maximized as much as possible to counter the Hellcat and Corsair.

However, it makes little sense to take the attitude that the production and operational problems that bedeviled it in combat were somehow irrelevant.
 

Very good point. Performance is often overrated as the most important quality of a fighter.

The Hellcat is a good example of that. It was far more successful than the F4u - in spite of inferior performance. Instead, it had great reliability, ease of maintenance, safety in deck operations, durability and was produced by Grumman at an astounding efficiency (and had decent performance after all). It was more influential than the F4u because of logistics, going into war in massive numbers, while a "handful" of produced F4u's were still trying to qualify for deck operations.
Title: Re: Re: Re: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Movie on August 06, 2007, 03:56:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Only due to average pilot skill and the lack of effective quality control later in the war.  The N1K2-J and Ki-84 as designed were quite capable of going at it with the F6F.

You need to separate out the issues.


also a lack of vital parts that the 84 needed to be in top shape... as the result of the U.S.  blockade they couldnt get in parts so they just used it as much as they can then leave them
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: indy007 on August 07, 2007, 08:45:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
Btw. even the planes Karnak listed as not having armor or self-sealing fuel tanks were upgraded with such protection in later models. Only the 1942ish Japanese planes were unarmored. For instance the A6M2 we have in AH2 is unprotected, while the A6M5 we have is protected.


Really? I've flown both a6m a ton. They seem to go all roman candle at about the same rate. Not arguing it, just from game experience, they both catch on fire REALLY fast, armored or not :(
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Karnak on August 07, 2007, 10:46:02 AM
A6M5 was unproteced.  A6M5b added the armored windscreen and possibly a fire extinguisher.  A6M7 I think added more.

Ki-43 followed a similar pattern, but I seem to recal fuel protection in the Ki-43-II.  The Ki-43's structure was much lighter built than the A6M's and it was known to break up when hit by a decent .50 cal burst.

The G4M1 and G4M2 were wholly unprotected.  The G4M3 was fully protected, but almost none were built and none saw action before the war ended.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Viking on August 07, 2007, 12:03:59 PM
The A6M5 we have in AH is the "b" version. The "c"version added even more armor.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Krusty on August 07, 2007, 12:09:28 PM
The C version had 4x 20mms :t
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Karnak on August 07, 2007, 01:57:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
The C version had 4x 20mms :t

Nope.

Two 20mm Type 99 Model 2 and three 13.2mm machine guns.

No A6M had four 20mm.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Krusty on August 07, 2007, 02:01:52 PM
That's not right... I know I've seen an A6m with 4x 20mms. I'm fairly sure it was the -5C. It had 4 wing mounted cannon and sometimes 1 cowl MG.


Can't look anything here, am at work.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Viking on August 07, 2007, 02:13:49 PM
(http://www.afwing.com/images/zero/1.jpg)
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Krusty on August 07, 2007, 02:19:33 PM
Well I'm scratching my head then... Can't figure out what I was thinking of. :confused:
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Viking on August 07, 2007, 02:22:08 PM
Well, if you didn't know better it kind of looks like four 20mm. If not perhaps you were thinking of the A7M?
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Movie on August 07, 2007, 02:28:39 PM
if im not mistaken those were built only in single digits and had 2 x 20mm and 2 x 13mm some 1 correct me if im wrong
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Viking on August 07, 2007, 02:58:17 PM
A7M only reached prototype stage and had 4x 20mm (or rather were planned to have).
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Karnak on August 07, 2007, 04:17:31 PM
A6M5c had one 20mm Type 99 Model 2 and one 13.2mm machinegun in each wing and one 13.2mm machine gun in the cowl.  I suspect that you saw the two wing mounted 13.2mm guns as additional 20mm cannons.
Title: N1K2-J automatic flaps.
Post by: Krusty on August 07, 2007, 04:21:04 PM
I suspect you're right, but that doesn't normally happen with me. :( Oh well.