Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: bj229r on August 05, 2007, 07:55:14 AM
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link (http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070805/NATION/108050050/1001)
Have ANY of these idiots even taken Economics 101 in college, or did they just go right to law school? Corporations which retail a product DON'T pay taxes, buyers of said product end up paying it.
The Democrat-led House yesterday passed a $16 billion tax increase on the oil industry to pay for renewable energy and conservation incentives ignoring the White House's charge that it will raise gas prices and reliance on foreign oil.
Republicans said the bills do nothing to increase the production of domestic oil and coal and will lead to higher energy prices.
Of course, they don't want us using domestic oil
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And the idiots in Congress stuff their pockets fatter. What more do they need? How about just going ahead and shooting all the poor people so we don't have to suffer through this?
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No more drag racing for me:cry
If they shot all the poor people Mcfarland....then they would have to kill everyone. There is always someone that is less fortunate. You have a point though, there comes a point in which Bill Gates has much more money than anyone in Congress leading to their demise.
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Actually if you read what they did.. They took away 16 billion in subsidies that big oil gets. You know those guys that have raised the price of gas to the most expensive it's ever been and have been raking in record profits while doing it.
"It would withdraw some $16bn (£8bn) in annual subsidies from the oil industry. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6931767.stm
Basically they took away one of the "many" freebies the big oil companies enjoy.
btw who do you think is going to pay for us to get off oil and move to a cleaner renewable energy source? You think the oil companies are going to pay for it?
Hell no they wont, so tell me what wrong with taking money we "give" them and using it for our future?
This is from 2002...
"By just about any measure, the past three years have produced one of the biggest cash gushers in the oil industry’s history. Since January of 2002, the price of crude has tripled, leaving oil producers awash in profits. During that period, the top 10 major public oil companies have sold some $1.5 trillion worth of crude, pocketing profits of more than $125 billion."
I think the oil companies can afford losing 16 billion of their 125 billion in "profit". Especially when that 16 billion is coming out of the taxpayers pocket.
So get your facts stright and understand what they did.. Rather than just go foaming at the mouth about Democrats raising gas prices..
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No matter how or what money is taken away from the oil companys, They WILL carge us to ge it back. Whether it is a tax, or what ever, we will make up the difference. What the dems have done looks good on paper, but it will just cost us more at the pumps.
I am really getting tired of having to pay extra for the..... forget it. The Dems will tax me to the poor house and then I get the money while not having to work for it.
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Originally posted by Phaser11
No matter how or what money is taken away from the oil companys, They WILL carge us to ge it back. Whether it is a tax, or what ever, we will make up the difference. What the dems have done looks good on paper, but it will just cost us more at the pumps.
Then put the blame on the oil companies where it belongs. The democrats just took a way a free ride the oil industry was getting on the backs of US tax payers. That's something we should be happy about.
The oil companies are going to continue to raise the price of oil no matter what happens. So why should tax payers give them a free ride in the process? At least this way there will be money going to other things to help our future rather than in the pockets of the greedy oil industry.
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Then put the blame on the oil companies where it belongs. The democrats just took a way a free ride the oil industry was getting on the backs of US tax payers.
No kidding, but the Dems are makeing it far far far far worse not better. Make a law that works!
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hurt "big oil" where it hurts, stop driving your cars.
what? you say you "have" to drive your car?
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Originally posted by Phaser11
Then put the blame on the oil companies where it belongs. The democrats just took a way a free ride the oil industry was getting on the backs of US tax payers.
No kidding, but the Dems are makeing it far far far far worse not better. Make a law that works!
Well the problem is, that we seem to have a limited supply of oil left. So the oil companies will continue to keep raising their prices to suck out as much profit as they can. So why should we give them a free ride while they are price gouging us?
We have to bite the bullet at some point and start putting money into other energy sources. So is it better to do it when gas is $3+/- a gal or when it's $5+/- gal ?
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Originally posted by john9001
hurt "big oil" where it hurts, stop driving your cars.
what? you say you "have" to drive your car?
I've done that myself. I used to have a job, that I drove over 100 miles a day. I decided gas was too expensive and started my own company. I now work from home and barely drive 30 miles a week.
So I've done my part in that sense, I understand not everyone can do the same. However last time I filled up my truck was almost 30 days ago.. :D
I went from spending about $150 week in fuel to about $40 a month if that.
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So the oil companies will continue to keep raising their prices to suck out as much profit as they can. So why should we give them a free ride while they are price gouging us?
How exactly do the oil companies raise prices? Not that I have a personal problem with rolling back corporate welfare. Maybe someday Congress will do the same with renewable fuels.
You want to lower gas prices get enough people to drive fuel efficient vehicles like we had to in the 1970s and 1980s, don't buy Chinese crap at Walmart and don't support companies that outsource to India.
Charon
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Crockett are you under the impression that Congress can diminish the profits of oil companies even 1 penny?
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Just think how cheap gas would be if we ran oil company tax credits up to 150 billion.
shamus
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Just think how cheap gas would be if we taxed all oil companies at 98% of gross. :)
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Wait! Let's nationalize them! That always works!
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Tax credits are used to GET big evil corporations to do stuff that they otherwise wouldn't do--drill in a certain area, develop some new blend of fuel..etc, but if ya take said credit away, all that happens is they quit doing whatever the credit encouraged to begin with
Democrats said the energy package is a step toward weaning the nation off fossil fuels and their emissions, which many scientists blame for global warming. They also say the proposal will create jobs in the growing renewable energy industry.
"Energy independence is a national security issue, an environmental and health issue, an economic issue and a moral issue," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, California Democrat. "We must strengthen our national security by reducing our dependence on foreign oil."
The two bills in the package offer tax credits and incentives for research, development and production of clean energy from renewable sources such as solar, wind and geothermal, as well as biofuels and hydroelectric power. It rolls back about $16 billion in tax breaks for the oil industry to finance these incentives.
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Originally posted by john9001
hurt "big oil" where it hurts, stop driving your cars.
what? you say you "have" to drive your car?
More effective yet, stop electing Republicans and Democrats into office.
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The Dems are appealing to their kook fringe, they feel punishing the oil companies for being successful is the way to make people happy.
We all just took a little step to be more like Hugo Chavez.
Tards.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
More effective yet, stop electing Republicans and Democrats into office.
Then what's that leave? Professional protesters? Pass.
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Actually if you read what they did.. They took away 16 billion in subsidies that big oil gets. You know those guys that have raised the price of gas to the most expensive it's ever been and have been raking in record profits while doing it.
How bout doing a little research yourself and break down a gallon of gas for us. In that price the oil companies are making on average .09 cents profit while the good ol' government is taking .40 cents for taxes. Also a good portion of those profits the bad ol' oil companies make gets reinvested into looking for... yes, more oil.
I love watching the cut n paste crowd express their points of view on topics they have difficulty comprehending... let me go refill my coffee cup.
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Originally posted by LePaul
Then what's that leave? Professional protesters? Pass.
Of course, they're both doing a "bang up job" ripping thise Country off blind. Hell, the Candidates Campaign Budgets could go towards Education or Veterans Benefits/VA System. Nah, makes too much sense.
Piss on the two-party system, they piss on the Veterans, and the rest of America.
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Hehe im just here to read and subscribe to the thread. Dont want to let this one pass me by :D
Carry on...
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We conseratives have been warning everyone that demonocrats would raise taxes, and nobody would listen.
Reap what you sow.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Crockett are you under the impression that Congress can diminish the profits of oil companies even 1 penny?
No but you seem to be under the impression that Congress can raise the price of gas. :)
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Originally posted by LePaul
The Dems are appealing to their kook fringe, they feel punishing the oil companies for being successful is the way to make people happy.
We all just took a little step to be more like Hugo Chavez.
Tards.
When a person is on welfare, because they live below the poverty line in this country. Do you call it punishing them if they make enough money to not need welfare?
Do you think the govt should just keep on paying welfare to anyone whom had it before, no matter how much they make today? Maybe they made 15k last year but made 30k this year. Should that person still get welfare?
Yea I didn't think so..
Funny how you right wingers hate anything to do with social programs because of the big evil "soicialism". Yet you never seem to mind when the govt gives away money to big business..
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Originally posted by crockett
No but you seem to be under the impression that Congress can raise the price of gas. :)
They just increased the cost of Shell oil, Exxon, etc of doing business.....do ya think they are simply gonna shrug to themselves and say, "I guess we won't make QUITE as much money as we did before"---they will pass the cost of doing business on to you and me....well..mostly Laz, as he seems to have the biggest gas hog:D
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Originally posted by Dago
We conseratives have been warning everyone that demonocrats would raise taxes, and nobody would listen.
Reap what you sow.
Exactly what taxes did they raise? Maybe they didn't teach reading and comprehension in your school.
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Originally posted by bj229r
They just increased the cost of Shell oil, Exxon, etc of doing business.....do ya think they are simply gonna shrug to themselves and say, "I guess we won't make QUITE as much money as we did before"---they will pass the cost of doing business on to you and me....well..mostly Laz, as he seems to have the biggest gas hog:D
Then put the blame where it lays. At the door step of big oil. Why don't you blame the Republicans for getting us into a war in Iraq and slowing down the flow of oil?
Seems to me if you want to blame anyone for raising the price of gas you should be blaming George Bush.. How much was gas before we went to war in Iraq?
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Originally posted by crockett
Then put the blame where it lays. At the door step of big oil. Why don't you blame the Republicans for getting us into a war in Iraq and slowing down the flow of oil?
Seems to me if you want to blame anyone for raising the price of gas you should be blaming George Bush.. How much was gas before we went to war in Iraq?
Im not aware that Iraq and the price of gas have ANYthing to do with each other---price of oil/gas can be layed at the vast increase of usage by china and India in last few years, (also whenever there is talk of invading Iran)which tightens markets, as well as limited refinery capacity HERE, just no room for slack
Speaker Pelosi says that HR 3221, the New Direction for Energy Independence, National Security and Consumer Protection Act “puts us on a path towards energy independence, strengthens national security, grows our economy and creates new jobs, lowers energy prices and begins to address global warming.”
How does the bill propose to move us towards energy independence? It purports to do this by expanding production of “homegrown fuels such as cellulosic ethanol and biodeisel” and by incentivizing the development of plug-in hybrid technology. Both of these provisions are gambles with the future. Cellulosic ethanol is an untried technology, with great potential, but as yet non-existent in a commercially viable form and with serious logistical problems involved that will require massive amounts of transportation fuel themselves.............- il-industry engineer Robert Rapier, who has spent years studying cellulosic ethanol, says that the difference between ethanol from corn and ethanol from cellulose is "like the difference between traveling to the moon and traveling to Mars." And even if the engineering hurdles can be overcome, there's still the problem of land use: According to Rapier, replacing fifty percent of our current gasoline consumption with cellulosic ethanol would consume thirteen percent of the land in the United States - about seven times the land currently utilized for corn production.................
link (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTU0YjViZDcxODY2NTI3YjIzMjMyODEwZjY4MmJjNmM=)
The bill proposes a number of tax code changes that would raise taxes paid by companies working to expand oil and natural gas supplies. The changes include punitive measures that eliminate or reduce some existing deductions against income from energy production, most notably the manufacturer's deduction created by the American Jobs Creation Act of 2004. This deduction, which applies to domestic industries, would be modified to exclude oil and natural gas activities.
Unfortunately, the House tax measures would likely reduce supplies and increase prices in the years ahead by discouraging investment in domestic production of oil and natural gas. This was clearly the lesson of the disastrous windfall profits tax of 1980, which, according to the Congressional Research Service, "reduced domestic oil production from between 3 and 6 percent, and increased oil imports from between 8 and 16 percent. This made the U.S. more dependent upon imported oil."[2] The latest tax increases will also have a negative impact on badly needed domestic production.
Much of the extra revenues generated from the energy bill's new taxes would be used to subsidize politically correct alternatives like ethanol, wind, and solar energy. The bill includes both tax incentives to build the plants that generate alternative energy and tax credits on the energy sold. These policies have been tried before, with dismal results. The 30-plus-year history of federal attempts to encourage alternative energy technologies contains numerous failures--such as electric cars and solar energy--and few, if any, successes.
Congress never seems to learn that these alternatives have serious economic and technological shortcomings, which is why they need special treatment in the first place. The bottom line for consumers is that federal attempts to pick winners and losers among energy sources leads to higher costs.
Restrictions on Domestic Production
The energy bill contains other measures that would further hamper domestic energy production, especially on federally controlled areas in the West and offshore.
The United States has significant amounts of domestic energy that are locked up--either access to the land is restricted outright or it is subject to burdensome regulations that effectively make it so. Also, 85 percent of America's offshore areas are restricted. The first order of business in any real energy bill would be to streamline or eliminate these provisions, but the House is moving in exactly the opposite direction by adding to them.
For example, the bill would restore the need for redundant and overlapping environmental reviews under the National Environmental Policy Act. Other measures would pile on more red tape and extend the delays surrounding domestic oil and gas projects. The bill would also slow efforts to develop shale oil, a potential long-term substitute for petroleum for which test projects are underway.[3] Many of these measures rescind useful reforms from the 2005 energy bill that were just beginning to have an effect. Perhaps worst of all, the bill seeks to add to the already massive amount of land on which energy production is forbidden.
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Hmmmm, funny... the average price of gas per gallon in Feb. of '03 in California of all places was $1.92 and by Dec. of that year it was $1.52! Oh how could that be? We were at war with Iraq and prices for gas were dropping? Gee, I guess that theory for blaming the war on Bush goes out the window.
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$16 billion tax increase on the oil industry to pay for renewable energy and conservation incentives
Let’s see… 20 million barrels a day... times 42 gallons... 84 million gallons a day... times 365... 306,600,000,000 gallons a year...
$16,000,000,000 / 306,600,000,000 gallons = $0.05 per gallon
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Originally posted by VWE
Hmmmm, funny... the average price of gas per gallon in Feb. of '03 in California of all places was $1.92 and by Dec. of that year it was $1.52! Oh how could that be? We were at war with Iraq and prices for gas were dropping? Gee, I guess that theory for blaming the war on Bush goes out the window.
humm gee lets see what happened since 03..
http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/statistics/gasoline_cpi_adjusted.html
Can you spot a trend? I guess it must have been Al Gore's fault. I guess it still must be the Hurricane's fault that gas is still over $2 a gal and almost $3 in many places.
Gee there just so happens to be a wikipedia page on the massive oil price rise from 2004-2006. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_price_increases_of_2004-2006
Guess what the number one reason is? The lack of stability in the Middle East and the Korean Nuclear Missile threat. Humm I guess we can blame the democrats for that right?
Of course the Hurricanes of 2005 played a role, but that role is of little effect today.
So you mix all that in the the looming threat of the fact that we maybe close to hitting peak oil. That and the fact that it's getting harder and harder to get oil out of the remaining wells. So guess what the price is high and getting higher.
Tell me what is bad about taking tax payers money and investing it into something that will secure our nation's interest in the future long after oil has come and gone? Tell me why we should continue to pad the profits of big oil when fossil fuels will soon go the way of the dinosaurs?
You expect us to do it for free? You think big oil is going to do it for us?
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Your a fool, add the cost of inflation and in 1981 we were paying more per gallon than today.
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Gas is actually going down, while oil goes up. Reason? Refineries running at a rapid pace, creating a slight surplus. Why is oil up? Because of futures trading, and because China, India, and other emerging nations are rapidly increasing their consumption.
Funny, Democrats cut oil subsidies, but continue massive subsidy payments to farmers, even dead farmers. More "feel good legislation".
Big oil revenue is high because of volume, not per unit profit. The sooner the "educated" grasp that concept, the sooner real solutions can be explored.
Hating "big oil" makes about as much sense as hating WalMart. It's nothing more than a big company using volume to provide you with goods you want and need at a low per unit profit.
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I hate Walmart!:mad: :furious
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Originally posted by VWE
How bout doing a little research yourself and break down a gallon of gas for us. In that price the oil companies are making on average .09 cents profit while the good ol' government is taking .40 cents for taxes. Also a good portion of those profits the bad ol' oil companies make gets reinvested into looking for... yes, more oil.
BULLSEYE!
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crocket... what do you think is a fair profit for the oil companies? 10% like most business? 5% ?
How is taking away subsidies that are used to explore for more oil going to help us get over our dependence on foreign oil?
The democrats can indeed raise the cost of fuel for all of us... they can take away the subsidies... they can stop the building of new refineries with horrific epa laws... they can stop the building of nuke plants.. They can raise the tax on fuel.. they can stop exploration in alaska and offshore for oil.
They have done all these things... it is some of the reasons we are so dependent now and will become more so in the future.
lazs
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All im gonna say to gas price whiners is that you will prolly benefit from gradualy getting used to high prices. ;) I bet its gonna get an awful lot worse for you as you have very very cheap gas now.
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Yep.. it will always get worse..
No need for the government to artificially make it worse tho like they do in socialist countries by sucking money out our wallets to fund their socialist programs and build bigger government.
lazs
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muhaha :rofl
You are too easy :D
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Originally posted by crockett
No but you seem to be under the impression that Congress can raise the price of gas. :)
and they will again real soon ... as soon as some billion dollar study shows they need more tax money to fix the bridges/roads across our nation
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Gas is actually going down, while oil goes up. Reason? Refineries running at a rapid pace, creating a slight surplus. Why is oil up? Because of futures trading, and because China, India, and other emerging nations are rapidly increasing their consumption.
Funny, Democrats cut oil subsidies, but continue massive subsidy payments to farmers, even dead farmers. More "feel good legislation".
Big oil revenue is high because of volume, not per unit profit. The sooner the "educated" grasp that concept, the sooner real solutions can be explored.
Hating "big oil" makes about as much sense as hating WalMart. It's nothing more than a big company using volume to provide you with goods you want and need at a low per unit profit.
You nailed it and saved me typing a similar retort, thank you :)
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Originally posted by lazs2
Yep.. it will always get worse..
No need for the government to artificially make it worse tho like they do in socialist countries by sucking money out our wallets to fund their socialist programs and build bigger government.
lazs
Wait in one post, you don't like the govt sucking money out of your pocket and don't like socialism.. However in the next post you support welfare for big oil..
:rofl So should we start giving oil executives food stamps.
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However in the next post you support welfare for big oil..
I'm getting a headache:huh