Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ghi on August 09, 2007, 02:50:15 PM
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HQ raids and defend it against massive bombing raids, used to be the best fun in last version, but now makes no sense to bomb it, can be resuped immediately and is a waste of time to try,
Can we get old settings, aprox 30 min downtime without resup option?
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:rolleyes:
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Here Here!!!!:aok
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I agree with ya ghi, HQ raids are generally useless now, so are strat raids, HTC may as well remove them all from the game due to their lack of impact on the game.
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THATS WHY WE NEED AN LA7 FACTORY:aok :aok :aok
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Law of unintended consequences:
Change to multiple war arenas mandated smaller maps.
Smaller maps resulted in 1 zone per side, vs the multiple zones in old large maps.
Strategic war efforts for the most part nullified, and smaller maps resulted in easier HQ resup for the most part. Increase of troops at fields makes porking harder and resups much easier. Fewer players per arena at peak times makes for less coordinated bombing efforts among several buff drivers in any one team in any one arena.
Don't know if 30 min hard downtime is the solution though. Maybe decreasing the effectiveness of each resup mission to a HQ would result in longer downtimes, and more effort in preventing HQ raids? No simple fix.
And nothing I can think of will bring strategic bombing back to usefulness in the war arenas.
I used to run high bombers against strats across the zone in the old MA and occasionally HQ raids. I used to pork ord and troops and fuel alongside those strat attacks..... but with all the troops barracks now, limited role of strat factories and limited use of strategic warfare on small maps.... I just don't bother to run heavy buffs much these days.
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I havent bombed HQ since it became resuppliable. I think most others feel the same way about it...
why bother?
i still think disabling only inflight dar when HQ down would be better.
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Eventually, if some positive changes aren't made to the game its going to come down to why bother paying as far as I'm concerned.
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Originally posted by ghi
HQ raids and defend it against massive bombing raids, used to be the best fun in last version, but now makes no sense to bomb it, can be resuped immediately and is a waste of time to try,
Can we get old settings, aprox 30 min downtime without resup option?
How are they resupplied immediately?
Just wondering....
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Get about ten guys to up supplies to it and it will be back up in about 5 min.
Poor tard had to fly an Hour to hit HQ. And the country guys fly for 5 min and it's back up.
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SFCHONDO, are you trying to hypnotize people with your avatar? LOL!
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Originally posted by ghi
but now makes no sense to bomb it, can be resuped immediately and is a waste of time to try,
Can we get old settings, aprox 30 min downtime without resup option?
Heh, why have it at all? Get rid of it then, HiTech. You've gone this far, why stop? I agree with ghi. It has proven to be a waste.
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We need something worth bombing. As it is now with the exception of guys who want score, most folks hit a base. And we know where that goes.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
We need something worth bombing. As it is now with the exception of guys who want score, most folks hit a base. And we know where that goes.
But we don't have it. It would take a bit of effort to get enough buff drivers together, in one arena where 1 side may have up to 100 pilots during a peak time, to coordinate well enough to hit a couple strats and pork the corresponding strats at several fields to have any effect in an arena,.....and all the troop and supply strats make resupping much easier than taking out the strats in the first place.
Back in the old MA, I didn't bother posting a mission if country numbers fell below 140 to 150 players, because good mission turnout became much more problematical under that bar.
This is further compounded a little by a percentage of buff drivers spending time doing milk runs in EW and MW to get that score you mentioned, where low pilot numbers puts coordinated efforts down to quick, uncontested smash and grabs.... no strategic effort.
Strategic bombing is pretty much on the sidelines now.
So, the bombers hit Hangars and CVs.
Possible solution (since 1 MA again probably is not in the cards): let buff drivers buy up to 3 additional drones with buff perk points and give defenders manned puffy ack or FlaK36's to defend the fields against them...... fewer buff drivers required to try and fight a strategic bombing campaign.... but taking them over defended fields a little more dangerous for those formations.
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Just as long as the 1 or 2 peps in a their boxes couldn't take HQ down alone.. Should take at least 10boxes or so.. If a team can get that many into an HQ it should be down for 30mins min..
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Originally posted by SFCHONDO
Get about ten guys to up supplies to it and it will be back up in about 5 min.
Poor tard had to fly an Hour to hit HQ. And the country guys fly for 5 min and it's back up.
so 10 guys "out of the fight" for a good 5-10 minutes when there are about 60 in each country is not good enough?
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There are not many HQ missions anymore...a lot of times you do a mission to a base...and you get way more pilots than you need to hit an HQ even...
I remember one of betty's missions....20+ buffs....and she forgot to select the runway...we were like fireworks against the mountain...
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Originally posted by ghi
HQ raids and defend it against massive bombing raids, used to be the best fun in last version, but now makes no sense to bomb it, can be resuped immediately and is a waste of time to try,
Can we get old settings, aprox 30 min downtime without resup option?
How about the older HQ settings. There was 3 phases of damage and if my pickled brain remembers correctly it was..... Part damaged = lose of enemy DOT dar. Badly damaged = lose of enemy DOT dar and enemy DAR BARS. Total damage was same as now = everything lost.
Only a fully damaged HQ was resupply-able. Part damaged was not supply-able and depended on their country strat. Part damaged dar could be down for up to 3 hours.
Or how about just making it weaker so as 1 set of bombers could take it out. Might be better to have HQ supply-able but with the possibility of more attacks.
At present you need a minimum of 3 sets of Lancasters to kill HQ and only 8 boxes of supplies to rebuild it. As already stated local HQ bases are general awash with barracks. It is kind of pointless with the exception of a few maps to even bother doing a HQ raid. Perhaps with the older settings and the barracks we have today it would again encourage some of those HQ runs and ME163 defences.
HQ was made harder because the knights were without part of their dar for about 4 days.....that's right, 4 days straight.
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Well while were at it how about putting the old bomb sight back stop these
silly diving bombing every bomb in the pickle jar runs. No skill
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Originally posted by DH367th
Well while were at it how about putting the old bomb sight back stop these
silly diving bombing every bomb in the pickle jar runs. No skill
How should the old sight be able to stop divebombing? I would even dare to say that a more difficult sight might even lead to more divebombing... ;)
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
Just as long as the 1 or 2 peps in a their boxes couldn't take HQ down alone.. Should take at least 10boxes or so.. If a team can get that many into an HQ it should be down for 30mins min..
I agree 100%.
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Originally posted by LYNX
How about the older HQ settings. There was 3 phases of damage and if my pickled brain remembers correctly it was..... Part damaged = lose of enemy DOT dar. Badly damaged = lose of enemy DOT dar and enemy DAR BARS. Total damage was same as now = everything lost.
Only a fully damaged HQ was resupply-able. Part damaged was not supply-able and depended on their country strat. Part damaged dar could be down for up to 3 hours.
Or how about just making it weaker so as 1 set of bombers could take it out. Might be better to have HQ supply-able but with the possibility of more attacks.
At present you need a minimum of 3 sets of Lancasters to kill HQ and only 8 boxes of supplies to rebuild it. As already stated local HQ bases are general awash with barracks. It is kind of pointless with the exception of a few maps to even bother doing a HQ raid. Perhaps with the older settings and the barracks we have today it would again encourage some of those HQ runs and ME163 defences.
HQ was made harder because the knights were without part of their dar for about 4 days.....that's right, 4 days straight.
LOL 4 days.......COOL:aok
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If the knits had any sense of teamwork other than squads, their dar would not have been down 4 days. I say, cant work together, suffer the penalty and STFU.
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I must be losing my mind. :)
First, so long as I can remember HQ has always been able to be resupplied.
Second, I don't ever remember Knights being without radar for 4 days. UNLESS it was prior to the uncapturable bases and on a map (such as Mindnao) where knights could be driven away from their HQ and couldn't access it to resupply it.
I DO however remember quite a few years ago where Knights would up a flight of goons to resupply HQ even before the bombs dropped. They did this in addition to the intercept flight of fighters. Most, if not all of the time radar would be down 30 seconds to 5 minutes. I clearly remember people razing the other team for their 2 hour flight and 30 second result.
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There was a buggish thing where if HQ was only PARTIALLY dead, ya couldn't fix it
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Originally posted by bj229r
There was a buggish thing where if HQ was only PARTIALLY dead, ya couldn't fix it
Now THAT I remember, but it was only for a short period of time.
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Well while we are at it, why don't we bring back the old field fuel settings too... make it useful to actually hit fuel at fields.
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Originally posted by Tiger
Well while we are at it, why don't we bring back the old field fuel settings too... make it useful to actually hit fuel at fields.
I never quite understood why it was ever changed.
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Originally posted by NHawk
I never quite understood why it was ever changed.
Because you can't fly your LA-7 or P-51D on 25% fuel for too long
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Originally posted by Tiger
Because you can't fly your LA-7 or P-51D on 25% fuel for too long
Hardly comparable. At 25% fuel The La-7 has a flight time of 5 mins at sea level, the P51D 13mins.
And that exactly is the problem when porking fuel to such low levels: Planes with a small fuel capacity are more handicapped. Realistically, porking fuel should result in something like "50gal for every plane taking off".
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Originally posted by LYNX
How about the older HQ settings. There was 3 phases of damage and if my pickled brain remembers correctly it was..... Part damaged = lose of enemy DOT dar. Badly damaged = lose of enemy DOT dar and enemy DAR BARS. Total damage was same as now = everything lost.
Only a fully damaged HQ was resupply-able. Part damaged was not supply-able and depended on their country strat. Part damaged dar could be down for up to 3 hours.
Or how about just making it weaker so as 1 set of bombers could take it out. Might be better to have HQ supply-able but with the possibility of more attacks.
At present you need a minimum of 3 sets of Lancasters to kill HQ and only 8 boxes of supplies to rebuild it. As already stated local HQ bases are general awash with barracks. It is kind of pointless with the exception of a few maps to even bother doing a HQ raid. Perhaps with the older settings and the barracks we have today it would again encourage some of those HQ runs and ME163 defences.
HQ was made harder because the knights were without part of their dar for about 4 days.....that's right, 4 days straight.
good idea lynx i agree with you
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HTC may as well just get rid of strats and fuels tanks at fields since they barely serve any tactical value anymore. Personally, I think it would rock to be able to leave the wittle Lghey pilot types only 25 % fuel, lets see em try and run "extend" now.
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Originally posted by AAolds
HTC may as well just get rid of strats and fuels tanks at fields since they barely serve any tactical value anymore. Personally, I think it would rock to be able to leave the wittle Lghey pilot types only 25 % fuel, lets see em try and run "extend" now.
On the occasional map, once in a while, you can find a field that is worth porking all strats at that can't be resupped too easily.......Limit the Spits, Lgays, and Typhies to 75% fuel and no DT's. But more rare now than it was in the old MA.
Granted it doesn't come into use much now, but no sense in taking it out of the game..... actually using resources and coding time to take something out that doers not see much use? Doesn't make much sense.
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Originally posted by AAolds
HTC may as well just get rid of strats and fuels tanks at fields since they barely serve any tactical value anymore. Personally, I think it would rock to be able to leave the wittle Lghey pilot types only 25 % fuel, lets see em try and run "extend" now.
Lets take a look at the other side of the coin.
It's Sunday night in LWO numbers are 105, 120, 75. I let you imagination work on what # goes with what side. The usual tag team the low side is in full swing. Since the low side is in full defense mode. you want to pork there fuel to 25% so they cant up the best defense fighters for more than 5 min?
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
Lets take a look at the other side of the coin.
It's Sunday night in LWO numbers are 105, 120, 75. I let you imagination work on what # goes with what side. The usual tag team the low side is in full swing. Since the low side is in full defense mode. you want to pork there fuel to 25% so they cant up the best defense fighters for more than 5 min?
If they are in full defense mode, they really don't have to fly that far to fight and are probably better off taking 25% fuel.
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Originally posted by Tiger
If they are in full defense mode, they really don't have to fly that far to fight and are probably better off taking 25% fuel.
Wrong. Because they are in full defense mode, they need to stay up longer as hitting the rearm pad results in a vulch and buffs overhead keep killing the hangars repeatedly to prevent upping in the first place.
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Fighting for "Win War" is nonsense ,close to imposible to reset with this bases uncapturable, caps, eny,...
Soo, why wouldn't HTC change the HQ downtime to 30 min, and every evening we nooke each others HQ, with massive raids, would be fun , no?
:)
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Originally posted by ghi
Fighting for "Win War" is nonsense ,close to imposible to reset with this bases uncapturable, caps, eny,...
Soo, why wouldn't HTC change the HQ downtime to 30 min, and every evening we nooke each others HQ, with massive raids, would be fun , no?
:)
yeah, large esscorted buff raids vs large defence wings.... so much fun... all sadly lost in the last year or so
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RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:
I agree that improving the usefulness of strats would make the game more enjoyable by giving people a reason to bomb them AND a reason to DEFEND them. I would love to have a reason to get back in bomber mission and to defend against them. It would certainly re-add an aspect of the game that has been lost or is missing currently. (Just my opinion.)
As a side bar: I also agree that going back to the "old" map reset characteristics would help improve enjoyment. The near impossibility of map resets leaves us with the same map on the arenas for weeks at a time. I, personally, would like to see the map rotate more often to keep from going stale (just my opinion). If this is a problem due to the "Win the War" issue, then just make the map resetable without the last line of... "rooks, bish, knights won the war." Just put the tag "the map has been reset. The terrain will change in (X) minutes." Give people long enough to fly home and land, BAM new map.
:aok
>salute<
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Have to agree that having HQ resupplied so easily makes it a waste of time to go bomb it. The radar down for 30 minutes, and no HQ resupply possible option would be preferable IMHO. That setting makes it worth it to bomb HQ, and makes HQ worth defending.
As far as base strats go, why not have the limit be 50% fuel loads if all the base fuel tanks are destroyed. Since 25% fuel loads are "too much porking" and 75% is "too little to make it worth the effort", lets try 50% and see how that goes. With the new ack settings (which I like btw), it would be unlikely that a single porker could really shut down a base, but a well run mission would have a good chance.
Speaking of well run missions to shut down bases - a good example would be the mission the bish ran last night against 49 - a bunch of B17 boxes, escorted by about 20 Spitfires. When you run a mission like that, you deserve to shut the enemy base down. Knocking out the FHs for 15 minutes is one thing, but the possibility of knocking the fuel loads down to 50% for a while should certainly encourage more of those big raids (and the giant furball that results from them).
EagleDNY
$.02
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I'd like to see the HQ go back to the staged destruction method where it could be only patially down. I mean what's the point of all those buildings at HQ? All you need is the one hard building now. I also don't think it should be able to be re-supplied.
As to fuel I'd also like to see the old progressive fuel destruction come back. 25% and can't fly far? Up further back or take another plane with higher capacity. I'm pretty sure that during WWII when a field's fuel tanks got porked there were repercussions. You could still allow drop tanks (filled at 25%) as a partial off-set. As an alternate you could limit the number of planes that could lift from that field.
As to barracks, field acks, etc. there are just too many now. I never used to use field ack for cover but now I know that if I can drag some sucker in and make him turn just once it's a quick, effortless proxie. Forget the field ack, the town ack is plenty for a quick proxie. And why all the barracks? Next we'll see 5 radars per field because, my god, they keep taking down local radar.
Finally, the old strat system on the large maps was great. You'd almost always see the strats go before the field captures began. Now it's a joke and very much because of the changes in the field lay-outs (too many barracks, acks, etc.). I will say however, that it makes for easy milkrunning in the LWA's as there's a general feeling that there's no need to defend the strats (fuel strat a case in point... what does it affect?).
Oops, sorry, one more thing. Bring back the old calibration method for bombing.