Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Halo on August 09, 2007, 08:13:35 PM
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An interesting little firearms sidelight that never seems to get resolved is whether pistol or rifle magazine reliability is increased if not loaded to maximum capacity, particularly when kept for long periods as in some home defense preferences.
For example, I've had some gun show vendors and gun store employees insist that loading a round or two shy obviously puts less pressure on the magazine spring, which is more desirable the longer the magazine is stored before the gun is fired or unloaded.
Some others are convinced that magazines are designed to hold their full capacity indefinitely, e.g., even years, and still be reliable enough to feed the full load without a hiccup.
Being rather conservative, I tend to load four rounds in a five-round magazine and 10 in a 13-round magazine for home defense, emptying the magazines and reloading them at least every six months.
What do you think? How much do you trust your gun magazines to operate flawlessly even if stored with max loads for, say, years?
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I have seen plenty say they underload by one round, but none ever had proof that it made a differance. On the flip side, I have known guys who always load full, even one who pulled out some mags that were loaded full and stored 20 years, and none of them reported any problems.
I suspect it is fine to full load. I do, but I only have a couple .45 mags loaded normally.
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I load mine half way.
15 rounds in 30 round mags, 10 in 20 round mags, 8 in 15 round mags and 4 in 8 round mags.
I keep ammo in stripper clips to load up quick to full capacity if the need arises.
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I full load and swap out mags every month. 2 loaded at all times and 2 empty. I don't expect to ever go into combat in my apartment so I figure 30rds of ready ammo is more than enough.
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I think it has more to do with the clip and weapon type.
more so than a "rule of thumb"
Then again, most would consider it "better safe than sorry"
Me, my mags are always full.
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And make sure the last 3 rounds are tracers:aok
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Originally posted by Hornet33
I full load and swap out mags every month. 2 loaded at all times and 2 empty.
Same.
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Mag design and spring metalurgy have changed since the first 1911 rolled off the line.
I have some Glock mags that I've used for over 12 years. I do rotate them about 1 month interval before and now 1 year interval but I also load them up full including a couple that have a +2 extention. They have never failed to feed and the gun has fired.
I know that the M16 had a problem at times with full up mags. My AR15 has not shown any of those problems with surplus mags that I've used.
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Mav, the M-16 and M4 STILL has problems with fully loaded magazines, although it probably has more to do with quality and serviceability of the magazines than the rifle.
In country, I used 27 rounds in 30 rounds mags. First 2 ("bastiage is ov'r der, guys!!!") and last three ("switch mag, yer out!") were tracers.
Home defense and carry is a 10 round 10mm subcompact. I load 9, but keep one in the pipe (Glock) so only 8 pressing on the springs. Second mag is close with another 9 rounds.
I also rotate a couple magazines, loaded and unloaded, among them. Some magazines can take a full load over long periods, some cannot. Takes time and experience to really get confident in the quality of particular magazines.
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Good system Hornet.
I think it really falls back to the quality of the clip itself. If it's a good OEM or quality aftermarket, the spring should perform as needed. A PM like Hornet suggests couldn't do any harm. But, I never carry a half clip. Never.
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No one knows.. you will get both answers from some of the best in the business.
Mav is correct that mag design and material has come a long way but...
I once bought a bunch of 1911 mags that were filled with ammo marked no later that '43. loaded mags in wax like paper... 12 or so in a box as I recall... all of em worked perfectly save one that the round did not go off. I ejected the round and the rest went right on through.
I have had rounds hang up on the first round and on the last.. and anything in between.. the amount of ammo the mag started off with never seemed to be a player.
I did have some cheap and shoddy mini 14 mags that... if you filled em... they would spit out 3 or four rounds (or try to) after the first one fired.. they even would let rounds lose when you loaded the mag sometimes.
lazs
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Seems like the construction and design of the magazine would be the most important factor here.
Can't say as I've seen a lot, but I've seen high quality and super low quality AR mags. Seen a lot in between. Even seen the follower get stuck before on the crappy ones.
Guess it could come down to just the individual piece thats in your hand.
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I read a post by some guy with metallurgical props that basically stated as long as the spring stays within it's design spec, spring fade is not an issue. But, if you overload and go beyond spec just once, you change the properties of the spring and have a permanent problem. So, a quality magazine spring should be good for the rated ammo count and should last practically forever compressed, not compressed or frequently emptied and reloaded -- whatever.
I got some nice 8 round Chip McCormick magazines for my Springfield MilSpec .45 that are only minutely longer (3/16" or so) than stock and are supposed to have special springs to handle the greater compression required to fit 8 rounds instead of 7. They fed reliably out of the box and I'll see how they feed being stored loaded between range trips. I still keep the Ruger Police 6 .357 in the biometric safe in the bedroom though. The 1911 stays loaded in the rifle safe.
Charon
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Kimber uses those mags and I have about 5 of em... they routinely get left loaded with 8 rounds in my safe for a year or more and I have had no problems.
the mags that come with the springfield seem cheezy. My son had feeding problems with his and I gave him one of my shooting star mags and it cured the problem.. told him to just throw away the springfield mag.
lazs
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Most of these people you hear about loading short, or rotating magazines, stems from the maintenance, or improper maintenance of the M16 magazines in Vietnam.
Just like the rifle, magazines do need to be cleaned and cared for. The magazines could be disassembled as well. However, the spring in the mag had a proper orientation, but looked very similar forward or back. The spring's properties weren't right when oriented backwards.
A fully loaded mag with a backwards spring would not operate correctly. So, instead of checking every single mag to see if the spring was right (even then, you could analyze wrong), most people just started loading 2 short.
I've heard conflicting information about whether or not spring fatigue is a problem, either by constant loading, constant reloading, or neither.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Most of these people you hear about loading short, or rotating magazines, stems from the maintenance, or improper maintenance of the M16 magazines in Vietnam.
Just like the rifle, magazines do need to be cleaned and cared for. The magazines could be disassembled as well. However, the spring in the mag had a proper orientation, but looked very similar forward or back. The spring's properties weren't right when oriented backwards.
A fully loaded mag with a backwards spring would not operate correctly. So, instead of checking every single mag to see if the spring was right (even then, you could analyze wrong), most people just started loading 2 short.
I've heard conflicting information about whether or not spring fatigue is a problem, either by constant loading, constant reloading, or neither.
Source?
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http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#downloading
As well as other places I can't remember off the top of my head.
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good find laser, thats an interesting site.
3. Some tactical squads download their back-up magazines by one round to make a tactical reload (which is done with a round chambered and the bolt forward) easier. This is because of the reduced upward pressure on the rounds
thats the only reason i dont fully load some mags for the ar. with a fully loaded stirling manufactured 20 round mag its an arm wrestle to get it locked in the rifle with the bolt carrier foward. stirling mags are top quality with tough springs that dont easily fatigue, but ive found its not such a problem with the seemingly weaker springed colt and gi mags. if you leave any mag fully loaded or even a few rounds shy of fully loaded for an extended period of time it stands to reason it must cause some fatigue to the spring, with the degree of fatigue and any resulting reliability issues with the mag ( if any) mostly determind by the quality of the spring. I bought a bunch of precision mag industries steel 40 round mags for the ar and armalite from numrich and killed one by leaving it fully loaded for 2 or 3 months. it stuffed the spring in a $24.95 mag... which i didn't think was exactly cheap and expected better