Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: crockett on August 12, 2007, 12:46:23 PM
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This has to be one of the best discussions I've seen yet as for reasons to hold hearings for Articles of Impeachment against both Dick Chaney and George Bush.
IMO they go out of their way to keep the topic non partisan in fact one of them is actually the very guy whom was first to file articles of Impeachment on Bill Clinton. A Republican conservative named Bruce Fein the former deputy attorney general under President Ronald Reagan.
IMO they make an extreemly strong case for reasons why we should be having hearings on the matter. None of the reasons is because they hate Bush or hate Republicains. They stick to the rules of the constitution and the responsibility of the govt to serve the people of the country.
It's about an hour worth of video and well worth the watch..
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html
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Why do yo hate America?
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Impeach a president who hasn't even been CHARGED (Cindy Sheehan calling him a murderer doesn't count) with a crime, glad to see our tax dollars at work there
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Just curious... but did either of you (Yknurd and Bj229r) actually watch the video before commenting on this thread?
I'm not picking a fight... I'm just curious. And no, i haven't watched the flick yet so I have no comment for the OP.
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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
Just curious... but did either of you (Yknurd and Bj229r) actually watch the video before commenting on this thread?
I'm not picking a fight... I'm just curious. And no, i haven't watched the flick yet so I have no comment for the OP.
No they didn't, which just goes to show that their posts are pure bipartisan rather than based on facts of the topic. The video is an hour long they both posted within 10 mins of me posting it. ;)
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Originally posted by bj229r
Impeach a president who hasn't even been CHARGED (Cindy Sheehan calling him a murderer doesn't count) with a crime, glad to see our tax dollars at work there
Umm, do you know what impeachment is? Glad you stayed awake during Government class.
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Originally posted by rpm
Umm, do you know what impeachment is? Glad you stayed awake during Government class.
:lol Maybe he should watch the video and actually learn about it.
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Do you also want to try and make a case for prosecuting Alberto Gonzales even though he commited no crime?
Seems the Demidorks do, even though no crime was committed, and what happened with the AG lawyers happens under every administration, doesn't stop the demoasses from trying to big deal it.
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Well, I did click your link and read the promo material about the video. Here's what I gathered as I read about the featured guests:
(http://www.makezine.com/blog/an_axe_to_grind-1.jpg)
I reckon I have better things to do with an hour of my life.
FWIW, I agree its probable Cheney has done something sometime/somewhere that he deserves to be impeached for. I just think it would be more productive to prosecute the jerk.
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hey crockett, i will submit that anyone who would spend an hour watching your video on that topic has an ax to grind. :)
impeachment isn't going to happen, and wishing won't make it come true. but if Bush lies under oath like Clinton did, that could change...
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Originally posted by culero
Well, I did click your link and read the promo material about the video. Here's what I gathered as I read about the featured guests:
I reckon I have better things to do with an hour of my life.
FWIW, I agree its probable Cheney has done something sometime/somewhere that he deserves to be impeached for. I just think it would be more productive to prosecute the jerk.
Yea you might be right, one hour is far too much time to take, to worry about where your country is going. After all it's not what you can do for your country, but rather what your country can do for you... Right?
A very good point that was brought up in this hour long video. The downfall of Rome, wasn't because of a bad leader or two. It was because the people stopped being citizens.
I suppose you likely don't understand, that as a citizen it's your job to hold your govt in check. Then again I guess you likely think it's the govt's job to hold you in check.
I'm a firm believer that you get the govt you deserve and some of you show me exactly why we have the govt we have today. Just remember the first words of the US Constitution are as follows..
We the people
Maybe one day the average American will understand what that means. Then again, under our current educational system, maybe not.
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crockett, you presume too much about me. In particular, whether or not I may already be familiar with what the video addresses...and whether or not some folks may, unlike you, be able to read and comprehend fast enough that watching video slows them down when gathering information.
Sorry, I don't mean to be snippy. Go back to grinding that axe, its cool with me :)
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Lets start our own hearings on squeeker crockett, after reading most of his rants on various cut n paste topics I conclude he it a putz. Anyone come up with something else?
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Yea you might be right, one hour is far too much time to take, to worry about where your country is going. After all it's not what you can do for your country, but rather what your country can do for you... Right?
A very good point that was brought up in this hour long video. The downfall of Rome, wasn't because of a bad leader or two. It was because the people stopped being citizens.
I suppose you likely don't understand, that as a citizen it's your job to hold your govt in check. Then again I guess you likely think it's the govt's job to hold you in check.
I'm a firm believer that you get the govt you deserve and some of you show me exactly why we have the govt we have today. Just remember the first words of the US Constitution are as follows..
We the people
Maybe one day the average American will understand what that means. Then again, under our current educational system, maybe not. - crockett
crockett, i think we can be good citizens and not agree with you on impeachment
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People yapping about "impeaching" Bush and Cheney are too often wannabes wanting to be close to power without being responsible for it, to expand a classic indictment against strutting journalists.
The whiners haven't been able to prematurely end the current reign for 6 1/2 years, so maybe they can wait another 18 months until the elected leaders' terms expire unless life as they imagine it otherwise will cease before then. :noid
What will really tighten their knickers is a good chance that a majority of voters will endorse the Republican legacy and elect successors of the same ilk.
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Originally posted by Gunthr
crockett, i think we can be good citizens and not agree with you on impeachment
...and not need to vegetate in front of a TV in order to do our part.
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Originally posted by culero
...and not need to vegetate in front of a TV in order to do our part.
So you try to say I presume to know something about about you.. Yet you seem to think you know something about me? By claiming I must watch too much TV?
Funny stuff there bud..
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Originally posted by Gunthr
crockett, i think we can be good citizens and not agree with you on impeachment
I never said you had to agree with me, I said the people of this country need to learn it's their duty to hold their govt in check. Not to let the govt hold them in check.
What I said was in response to him stating it's was a waste of time to listen to an argument for Impeachment. You may not agree with it, but to not listen to argument is basically turning a blind eye to anything you don't agree with.
Regardless if it's politics or what ever.. not being open minded and willing to hear both sides of an argument is rather a naive thing to do.
If you can listen to an argument and then come back with your own argument as to why you don't support it. Well, at that point, I'm all for it and I can respect that. However to prejudge something before you even listen to it or watch it and try to commit your views on it.. lol well that's rather silly to put it nicely.
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Originally posted by Halo
People yapping about "impeaching" Bush and Cheney are too often wannabes wanting to be close to power without being responsible for it, to expand a classic indictment against strutting journalists.
The whiners haven't been able to prematurely end the current reign for 6 1/2 years, so maybe they can wait another 18 months until the elected leaders' terms expire unless life as they imagine it otherwise will cease before then. :noid
What will really tighten their knickers is a good chance that a majority of voters will endorse the Republican legacy and elect successors of the same ilk.
Did you happen to notice, that one of the two guests, was Republican conservative named Bruce Fein the former deputy attorney general under President Ronald Reagan.
He was the very first guy to file Articles of Impeachment on Bill Clintion. I'd say he likely isn't a wannabe or a whiner.
If you watch the video, you might understand why there is a need for it now, and why we should not to wait another 18 months. If the changes to the presidency that have happened under Bush aren't put in check now. The changes will be passed along to the next president, they don't go away in 18 months like the president does.
Would you want Hillary Clinton or Brock Obama to have un checked wire tap ability? Do you want them to be able to hide anything they do and claim it's because of the war on terrorism?
What if they decide we need stricter rules against guns and use Bush's precedent and claim it because of the war on terrorism.
If these things are left unchecked, you never know what the next presidency will use his/her powers for.
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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
Just curious... but did either of you (Yknurd and Bj229r) actually watch the video before commenting on this thread?
I'm not picking a fight... I'm just curious. And no, i haven't watched the flick yet so I have no comment for the OP.
nah im dialup, cant watch such things---i merely noted the subject( impeaching Bush) and the medium (tax-payer funded TV)
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HAH!
You're like that dude that kept posting about the P47 being wrong 'cause he watched some one-hour show on the History channel.
Other people on other boards have posted about this video. Therefore you presume a lot to say that I haven't seen it before because I posted ten minutes after your post. Very ego-centric to say the least.
As to my duty to blah, blah, blah...I don't recall there being any Bill of Duties. I have the right to do...absolutely nothing. That's right. I have the right to absolutely nothing if I so choose.
You sound like those types of people who scream, "The public has a right to be informed!!!"
Thank you for your time and your hackneyed words but Good Day!
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i will be glad when hillary is elected and all this librule whining stops, then we can make fun of horny billy again.
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Originally posted by bj229r
nah im dialup, cant watch such things---i merely noted the subject( impeaching Bush) and the medium (tax-payer funded TV)
Yea silly that a tax funded program on TV should ask any tough questions or have any thoughts on how our govt should run.
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You all are dreaming.
The Democrats are NOT going to actually impeach the President or VP. They are the rally cry for the Democrats in 2008 to try and gather more seats in the house. The lower the President's public opinion polls drop, the better the Democrats like it. The "evil Republican" they can wave like a bloody shirt to the American public.
Second reason not to impeach = President Nancy Pelosi.
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The public keeps the govt in check by voting the right guys in, in the first place.
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Are those whiners whimpering for impeachment also pushing to impeach Hillary and the other demondorks who voted to go to war in Iraq?
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Originally posted by Yknurd
Other people on other boards have posted about this video. Therefore you presume a lot to say that I haven't seen it before because I posted ten minutes after your post. Very ego-centric to say the least.
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Yes because your first post in this topic so full of thought and left me with so much to presume about you.
Originally posted by Yknurd
As to my duty to blah, blah, blah...I don't recall there being any Bill of Duties. I have the right to do...absolutely nothing. That's right. I have the right to absolutely nothing if I so choose.
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And that's exactly why our govt is the way it is today. Too many people whom choose to do nothing. So keep using your right to do nothing.. You're right it's your right..
Why not use that right to post nothing in this topic?
Originally posted by Yknurd
You sound like those types of people who scream, "The public has a right to be informed!!!"
Thank you for your time and your hackneyed words but Good Day!
Yea who would have ever thought the public has a right to be informed about what our govt does..
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by moot
The public keeps the govt in check by voting the right guys in, in the first place.
This is sarcasm, right?
Actually, a small percentage of the total number of eligible voters,..... that actually bother to register and get out to vote come election day,.... do the voting. A significant number of those voters vote straight ticket without getting into the details of an election. Many of the rest vote according to popularity or name recognition, so whomever has the biggest contribution from special interests tends to have more name recognition.
A very few vote for particular candidates for particular reasons related to important issues.
Now we also have to consider electronic voting machines owned by foreign companies potentially skewing some results.
Dago Are those whiners whimpering for impeachment also pushing to impeach Hillary and the other demondorks who voted to go to war in Iraq?
Most of Congress would have to impeach themselves then. If you check the voting record, most of those in Congress now, that were in Congress when that vote was taken, voted FOR the invasion of Iraq. THAT was what was popular with the public THEN. There was still a lot of vengeful feelings and blood lust in the United States then. War was the popular move. Those that came out too strongly against a war in Iraq, then, found themselves outcasts.
What a lot of people don't understand is, even with some term limits, the turnover rate among members of Congress is lower than the old Politburo under Soviet Russia. Those good ol' boys been in there a while.
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Idealism in reply to the surprise that Joe Public can't do much once one or many politicians go astray. In other words, that impeachment is too little too late.
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Any government agent can be impeached for anything. Now, to be convicted of anything, is a completely different matter.
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Originally posted by crockett
Yea silly that a tax funded program on TV should ask any tough questions or have any thoughts on how our govt should run.
I was only guessing, then I saw his name on the URL--Bill Moyers is an unpaid employee of the DNC, and is about as unbiased as Rush Limbaugh, except Rush doesn't pretend to BE unbiased:“The entire federal government — the Congress, the executive, the courts — is united behind a right-wing agenda for which George W. Bush believes he now has a mandate. That agenda includes the power of the state to force pregnant women to surrender control over their own lives. It includes using the taxing power to transfer wealth from working people to the rich. It includes giving corporations a free hand to eviscerate the environment and control the regulatory agencies meant to hold them accountable. And it includes secrecy on a scale you cannot imagine.
“Above all, it means judges with a political agenda appointed for life. If you like the Supreme Court that put George W. Bush in the White House, you will swoon over what’s coming. And if you like God in government, get ready for the Rapture....”
“So it’s a heady time in Washington, a heady time for piety, profits and military power, all joined at the hip by ideology and money. Don’t forget the money....”
“Republicans out-raised Democrats by $184 million and they came up with the big prize: monopoly control of the American government and the power of the state to turn their radical ideology into the law of the land. Quite a bargain at any price.”
— Bill Moyers’ commentary on PBS’s Now,
The fact that MY tax dollars are confiscated to pay for this twit to dream up ways to get Boossh TRULY pis--..hmm...HACKS me off:furious (aside, is this now the DailyKos?)
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Originally posted by bj229r
I was only guessing, then I saw his name on the URL--Bill Moyers is an unpaid employee of the DNC, and is about as unbiased as Rush Limbaugh, except Rush doesn't pretend to BE unbiased: The fact that MY tax dollars are confiscated to pay for this twit to dream up ways to get Boossh TRULY pis--..hmm...HACKS me off:furious (aside, is this now the DailyKos?)
Well at least Rush is finally starting to understand his party is going in the wromg direction.
As for tax dollars.. there are a lot of things I don't like my tax dollars spent on.. PBS is far from being one of them.
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Originally posted by Halo
What will really tighten their knickers is a good chance that a majority of voters will endorse the Republican legacy and elect successors of the same ilk.
Except that the current Pres Bush has shifted so far away from the conservative "Republican legacy", that it's unlikely any other elected republican could do anything except change course back towards Republican conservatism.
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I read it.
They can impeach without them being charged, just for the record. The impeachment, in fact, is the accusation.
Regardless of your political affiliation, impeachment isn't going to stick. Half of the arguments are specious, and most are rooted in differing opinions.
Here's what I'd like - for ONCE, the Democrats tell us what they will do to better the country....not spend all of their energy telling us what is wrong with Republicans. You never ever hear them talk about their plans (with any substantive specificity). You only hear them explain why the Republicans are ruining the country and why their plans won't work.
Democrats - what will you do to better the US? (And, I accept you will cut and run from Iraq. I do mean after that new chapter for Profiles in Courage).
Thank you .
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Originally posted by crockett
So you try to say I presume to know something about about you.. Yet you seem to think you know something about me? By claiming I must watch too much TV?
Funny stuff there bud..
Nope, no idea who you are or anything about you...except that you seem to think everyone must either watch whatever boob toob you suggest or they aren't worthy of being citizens.
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Originally posted by eagl
Except that the current Pres Bush has shifted so far away from the conservative "Republican legacy", that it's unlikely any other elected republican could do anything except change course back towards Republican conservatism.
I dunno, eagl. Veeps have been known to get the nomination after the second term. That would be an awful prospect, eh?
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I haven't heard anything about Cheney being remotely interested in running for President.
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Originally posted by culero
Nope, no idea who you are or anything about you...except that you seem to think everyone must either watch whatever boob toob you suggest or they aren't worthy of being citizens.
I guess I know something about you too. You seem to lack basic comprehensive skills..
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Originally posted by tedrbr
reason not to impeach = President Nancy Pelosi.
crockett, you DO know that if if the pres. and the veep get impeached, Nancy Pelosi would be president dont ya'?
How horrible...
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Originally posted by Dago
Do you also want to try and make a case for prosecuting Alberto Gonzales even though he commited no crime?
Seems the Demidorks do, even though no crime was committed, and what happened with the AG lawyers happens under every administration, doesn't stop the demoasses from trying to big deal it.
perjury is a crime.
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Originally posted by jhookt
perjury is a crime.
Now who could have done this?
Bronk
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Originally posted by crockett
I guess I know something about you too. You seem to lack basic comprehensive skills..
Oh I dunno, this quote by you, in response to someone saying they had better things to do with an hour of their life than watch the boob toob you suggested should be watched, seems pretty clear to me:
Yea you might be right, one hour is far too much time to take, to worry about where your country is going. After all it's not what you can do for your country, but rather what your country can do for you... Right?
Hint: there are other sources of information about the same topics. If you knew how to read and comprehend, you'd be amazed.
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No way I am going to watch an hour worth of such a vid...
It really doesn't matter at this point.. I don't care if they caught him eating a baby... If impeachment means that nancy pelosie and the democrats get more power I will just live with the eating babies stuff.
The man is almost out of office. I lived through all the crap klinton did to the country for 8 years. I really wanted him gone.. so I can see how a lefty would be upset with bush... Not that fond of everything he does myself... hell... he shoulda fired every judge there was when he took office like klinton for instance.. shoulda worked harder on arresting the employers of illegals...
Lots of stuff.
He will be gone tho soon crockett and we will have someone new to hate.
If it's a socialist democtat... I will hate him.. if it is a republican or contstitutionalist... you can hate him.
lazs
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Impeach teh Booosh and Darth Vader Cheney zomg!
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The house impeaches, the senate convicts. I doubt if the house would impeach either bush or "chaney" :eek: unless there was clear and compelling evidence of serious unlawful conduct. I dont believe there has been such conduct, or we would be in impeachment proceedings starting last year. Even if there were an impeachment, I doubt the senate would convict. It is too destabilizing to the republic, unless such criminal behavior were clearly treasonous. Which I cannot fathom at all.
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Originally posted by crockett
Regardless if it's politics or what ever.. not being open minded and willing to hear both sides of an argument is rather a naive thing to do.
Outstanding video. Bruce Fein is a "righty" who served Regan & wrote the articles against Clinton... he's more knowledgeable about the constitution than anyone here by miles. In the video he sheds his party affiliation puts the country 1st calling for articles of impeachment against Dick & Bush... not necessarily to kick them out of office, but to put them in check.
Here's another great video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I
Dick Cheney, in 94, making the case that toppling Saddam with US troops would result in a "quagmire" with Iran butting in... he knew then what would happen, yet his most clever efforts prevented none of it.
See Dick plan, see Dick fail... don't be a Dick.
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Nothing to impeach for except his refusal to protect the nations border. That is a duty specifically required in the Constitution. If the articles of impeachment have this on it, i am all for it.
otherwise... move on
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President in the wings Pelosi has stated that Impeachment is off the table.
Bill Moyers
I don't see asny strong evidence that the Democrats are playing the way you think Congress should be playing.
Bruce Fein
That is correct but it doesn't exculpate the President that Congress has not decided to sanction his excesses
Bruce Fein, the man on Moyers show who advocates congress consider impeachment, realizes this argument is purely academic.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Outstanding video. Bruce Fein is a "righty" who served Regan & wrote the articles against Clinton... he's more knowledgeable about the constitution than anyone here by miles. In the video he sheds his party affiliation puts the country 1st calling for articles of impeachment against Dick & Bush... not necessarily to kick them out of office, but to put them in check.
Here's another great video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I
Dick Cheney, in 94, making the case that toppling Saddam with US troops would result in a "quagmire" with Iran butting in... he knew then what would happen, yet his most clever efforts prevented none of it.
See Dick plan, see Dick fail... don't be a Dick.
Damn man not sure how I missed your post on this video. I posted the same vid after you in another thread. lol
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Nothing to impeach for except his refusal to protect the nations border. That is a duty specifically required in the Constitution. If the articles of impeachment have this on it, i am all for it.
otherwise... move on
Did you watch the video? These guys as x0847Marine said, both know a tad bit more about the US consitution than any of us. They seem to make some pretty arguments for it.
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Originally posted by crockett
They seem to make some pretty arguments for it.
Is that like pretty flowers?
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
President in the wings Pelosi has stated that Impeachment is off the table.
Bruce Fein, the man on Moyers show who advocates congress consider impeachment, realizes this argument is purely academic.
I think he understands that Congress likely wont do it. I think he was making the point that they should and that Pelosi was failing in her job to the American people.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Is that like pretty flowers?
pretty good argument .. is what I meant..
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Originally posted by crockett
I think he understands that Congress likely wont do it. I think he was making the point that they should and that Pelosi was failing in her job to the American people.
So then he understands that this is all just a waste of time.
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read between the lines.
he is saying "look, we can't really impeach bush, so lets do the next best thing, elect Hillary in 08 and keep control of congress"
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I would be very dissapointed with Dems & Repubs if they carry this out, as I was dissapointed in the Repubs big time when they did the same thing 8+ years ago.
During Watergate the wrongs done matched Congress' actions.
The other two examples = "We're mad as all get out, so here's what we're going to do."