Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: crockett on August 13, 2007, 08:38:25 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I
Damn I wonder why he changed his mind...
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Originally posted by crockett
Damn I wonder why he changed his mind...
saddam?
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Originally posted by john9001
saddam?
You mean Saddam wasn't a bad guy in 94?
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What do you do besides read daily kos?:)
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Originally posted by bj229r
What do you do besides read daily kos?:)
Don't even know what it is..
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I f you are surprised by this hypocrisy.. you don't know Dick.
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Maybe he didn't mean it?
He was just joshing.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I f you are surprised by this hypocrisy.. you don't know Dick.
He's a politician.
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I don't know Dick. But, I know he can go **** himself.
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Originally posted by crockett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I
Damn I wonder why he changed his mind...
Um, hello? ....
(http://www.koshermania.com/images/yellowcakejpeg.jpg)
:D
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Kam, you just reminded me that my Oldest boys' 12th birthday is the 16th. TY
:aok
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Kam, you just reminded me that my Oldest boys' 12th birthday is the 16th. TY :aok
No prob. :D If you don't mind...please bump this up on about Sept 10th so that I have a couple days:
(http://www.devynns.com/pictures/Happy-Anniversary-Balloon-and-Flower-Bouquet.jpg)
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Originally posted by crockett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I
Damn I wonder why he changed his mind...
Maybe because it was perceived that the situation had changed?
All of us have changed our minds multiple times on various things throughout our lives for various reasons.
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Originally posted by Elfie
Maybe because it was perceived that the situation had changed?
All of us have changed our minds multiple times on various things throughout our lives for various reasons.
but but but... isnt that FLIP FLOPPING? I thought that was a leftist democrat thing. ;)
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Originally posted by Nilsen
but but but... isnt that FLIP FLOPPING? I thought that was a leftist democrat thing. ;)
Giggiddy.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
but but but... isnt that FLIP FLOPPING? I thought that was a leftist democrat thing. ;)
I think it's a human thing :D
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Rule 4
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PM & Padlock invasion IN T minus 10...
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IN 9......
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Regardless its his quagmire and better fn figure a way out of it.
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you people need to pay attention.......
back then he said it would have been a quagmire.
he did not say it is or would be a quagmire now.
different time, different situation, different strategies.
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Originally posted by crockett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I
Damn I wonder why he changed his mind...
This a video from 3 years ago talking about something that happened 13 years earlier.
Alot of things can change or happen in 16 years.
Take a daughter for example. From a tiny person in a diaper and a crib, to a young women with a boyfriend and a car.
Edit: And when you thnk about it on a grand scale, WWII didn't last 16 years.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Regardless its his quagmire and better fn figure a way out of it.
Oh why would he do that? They only have a short time left in the white house.. Then they can blame the Democrats on Iraq if they get elected.
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Originally posted by Speed55
This a video from 3 years ago talking about something that happened 13 years earlier.
Alot of things can change or happen in 16 years.
Take a daughter for example. From a tiny person in a diaper and a crib, to a young women with a boyfriend and a car.
Edit: And when you thnk about it on a grand scale, WWII didn't last 16 years.
I think you missed the point I'm making.
Bush and Co... claimed they had no idea that things would go bad in Iraq as they expected them to "welcome us with open arms". They claim, they didn't think the Iraqi's would try to split up or fight each other and have it turn into a civil war, with us in the middle.
Yet this video shows that Dick Cheney knew exactly what was going to happen 13 years ago. Things can change, but the basic things that have caused the mess in Iraq remain the same. Dick knew all about it 13 years ago and failed to inform the rest of us when they were selling the war.
They also failed to plan for something he knew was going to happen causing us to get tied down into a war that has cost us billions of tax payer dollars and cost the lives of thousands of American soldiers.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect the dots and understand that the Iraqi's aren't going to suddenly start holding hands with each other and have a nice day. The Dick knew what we would be up against and failed to inform the US public and their admin failed to plan for it.
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on a related topic: Events involving the US military in Iraq aren't being reported in the mainstream US media with the same negative voracity as they were a few months ago.........whats really happening in Iraq?
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Originally posted by crockett
I think you missed the point I'm making.
nobody misses your point, which is the same point over and over. boosh ist hitler.
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If you can figure out why Cheney changed his tune, and why Karl Rove quit now, please, put it on the board.
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Selective memory is very convenient.
They decided that they needed to throw a war so they first decided to forget much of what the history of the region has to teach us.
He has a limited point about the first gulf war, but what his whole chickenhawk group has conveniently neglected to bring up a lot is that WAS the right time to do the right thing. Just because it should have been done then doesn't mean its wise to go back and do it now.
His comments make the initial lack of troops all the more inexcusable. They should have taken a hint from Hitler and listened to their generals.
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The Dick knew what we would be up against and failed to inform the US public and their admin failed to plan for it.
Did you ever stop to think that just maybe evaluations had changed about Iraq?
A lot can change in a decade.
You are obsessed with the Evil Bush administration, give it a rest man. They will be gone in about 18 months.
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Originally posted by Elfie
Did you ever stop to think that just maybe evaluations had changed about Iraq?
A lot can change in a decade.
You are obsessed with the Evil Bush administration, give it a rest man. They will be gone in about 18 months.
You ever stop to think your blind support no mater what the facts show is misplaced? Or is it just hate anything against Bush for you, no matter what we show you?
If that's the case, why do you bother posting in these topics, if you have nothing else to say or learn?
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Unlike you Crockett, I actually look at both sides of the story. I don't just look for stuff that shows the administration in a bad light. Unlike you I realize that situations can and do change.
We will never know what has been discussed behind closed doors and without that knowledge, Bush bashing is just that....bashing.
Your facts.....are 10+ years old. Refer to my first paragraph.
Your *facts* in other threads are sound bytes cherry picked from press conferences to show what you want to see or allegations that also back up your point of view.
Show me some real facts that will hold up in a court of law. If you could do that, Impeachment proceedings would already be in progress or be done and the Senate working on them.
When the next administration comes into office you will see my responses are much the same to their alleged wrong doings as well. I will not judge them as guilty until they have been proven guilty in a court of law, much the same as I refuse to judge this administration guilty until proven guilty in court.
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i put the blame on Lawrence of Arabia, if not for him the Turks would still be in control of the middle east.
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Originally posted by john9001
i put the blame on Lawrence of Arabia, if not for him the Turks would still be in control of the middle east.
If you are going to put the blame on Lawrence of Arabia, shouldn't you also place blame on the government that was backing him? :)
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Originally posted by Elfie
If you are going to put the blame on Lawrence of Arabia, shouldn't you also place blame on the government that was backing him? :)
Well, they are the ones that created Iraq in the first place....
ack-ack
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So lets just blame the Brits for the whole mess.....they did initiate the events that led us to today albeit 90 some odd years ago. :D
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I'd rather blame Canada.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I'd rather blame Canada.
ack-ack
Why not blame both? :t
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Originally posted by Elfie
Maybe because it was perceived that the situation had changed?
All of us have changed our minds multiple times on various things throughout our lives for various reasons.
If you listen to the reasons Dick offers not to invade, not a single one had changed. Not one. Dick said:
It was a volatile region - still true.
With no Arabs it would be a "US occupation" - still true
Saddam gone, who would keep "pieces of Iraq from flying off" - still true
The Iranians & Syrians want parts of Iraq (thus would cause trouble) - still true
Cheney also said Saddam wasn't worth more American lives - still true
Dick & Bush knew what has happened, would happen... Dick just said so himself, yet their best best efforts prevented none of it.
You should go see this movie, it explains perfectly why Iraq was a failure before it even started, and how the Bush people let the country spiral into chaos through total incompetence.
http://noendinsightmovie.com/
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Originally posted by Elfie
So lets just blame the Brits for the whole mess.....they did initiate the events that led us to today albeit 90 some odd years ago. :D
The White House called, asking if you wanted a job. Spin-something-or-other.
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Originally posted by Elfie
Why not blame both? :t
Because I've always considered Britain to be like the cool older cousin and Canada is more like the older brother that has never had a girlfriend.
Blame Canada!
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Yeager
on a related topic: Events involving the US military in Iraq aren't being reported in the mainstream US media with the same negative voracity as they were a few months ago.........whats really happening in Iraq?
Bait and switch. They started hearing stuff about all the extra soldiers on the ground starting to have a positive effect. A few successful operations. Some lower level commanders on the ground want even more troops, or extend the time for the ones they've got if possible. They've never had enough bodies on the ground for the mission after the invasion. Some tribes fed up with the insurgents and al queda in Iraq switching sides.
So, it's time to back off the story in order to maintain their air of superiority for their viewers.
Give the 2008 candidates enough political rope to hang themselves, then, if things really are turning around, put them on the hotplate for statements they and Congress have been making for the past year. Be ready to go in and hail the troops for a job well done.
All politics, opinion polls, and perception. Reality has no place in Disneyland on the Potomac.
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Originally posted by john9001
you people need to pay attention.......
back then he said it would have been a quagmire.
he did not say it is or would be a quagmire now.
different time, different situation, different strategies.
Exactly! :huh
To give them their due, from what I can tell there are powerful folk in our government and behind the scenes who truly are sold on the idea that the Muslims are out to bury the Christians. That it will not go away.
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Originally posted by tedrbr
The White House called, asking if you wanted a job. Spin-something-or-other.
That was a joke. :D
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Iraq is not a quagmire, if we pull out it will become a quagmire. I'm speaking from personal knowledge because I'm here, stop speaking out of your arse crockett unless you'd like to speak from experience. Just admit on each thread all you care about is Bush bashing regarless of the facts...
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Originally posted by VWE
Iraq is not a quagmire, if we pull out it will become a quagmire. I'm speaking from personal knowledge because I'm here, stop speaking out of your arse crockett unless you'd like to speak from experience. Just admit on each thread all you care about is Bush bashing regarless of the facts...
:rofl
Keep your head down over there VWE. :)
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Originally posted by VWE
Iraq is not a quagmire, if we pull out it will become a quagmire. I'm speaking from personal knowledge because I'm here, stop speaking out of your arse crockett unless you'd like to speak from experience. Just admit on each thread all you care about is Bush bashing regardless of the facts...
Now why on Earth would I want to bash Bush? Could it because he and his admin has lied to us pretty much every step of the way in regards to this war?
Na, I guess I should praise him for that right? This topic you are right is to bash this admin and to show people that they knew exactly what was going to happen and FAILED to plan for it.
I guess anything that sheads bad light on this admin is Bashing them, if so then I'm a basher because I think they suck. Next you will be telling me I don't support our troops and hate America.
Oh as far as experience, you have never seen me post "ANYTHING" in regards to what goes on in Iraq on a day to day basis or if it's getting better or worse. You are right I have no clue on that other than what I see in the media. So you don't see me commit on that.
However, what I DO have a clue on is seeing what these guys say one min then say the next. Unlike some of you here, I don't accept every word that comes out of their mouths like it's the word of Jesus. I know better and have seen countless video of these guys saying one thing, then saying the total opposite later.
These guys lost any and all support I ever had when Bush gave is State of the Union address and said we were going to attack Iraq. I knew at that moment we didn't have the troops to do both Iraq and Afghan and I knew Afghan would go to crap because of it. I also knew that he was using false intel during his State of the Union address.
So, sorry that I don't get down on my knees and bow to a president whom lies to me and thinks he's the Decider. Sorry buddy but the Decider is the American public, and it's time people understand that.
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Originally posted by crockett
Now why on Earth would I want to bash Bush? Could it because he and his admin has lied to us pretty much every step of the way in regards to this war?
Lied about what? Let's see.... WMD's? Well he was wrong in his belief that Saddam had an ongoing program, but that means he was just wrong. Not necessarily that he lied.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Lied about what? Let's see.... WMD's? Well he was wrong in his belief that Saddam had an ongoing program, but that means he was just wrong. Not necessarily that he lied.
Exactly, we don't know for a fact what they knew, and when they knew it. We also weren't privy to any behind doors discussions. All we know is what the media has told us and information we get from press conferences.
Sure, things have changed in what they have said since the invasion of Iraq simply because some information they had prior was incorrect, other things changed because the situation changed.
I do agree that the invasion force should have been larger. I think the Pentagon (read Rumsfeld) felt that a larger force simply wasn't necessary. In hindsight, he was wrong.
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Could it because he and his admin has lied to us pretty much every step of the way in regards to this war?
Go ahead inform us... put your facts out there, members of congress saw the exact same information that this President did and chose to vote on that evidence for this war.
Go on, list it out there for all of us to see what the Bush administration has lied to us about. It should be on the tip of your tongue Mr. back seat driver...
I knew at that moment we didn't have the troops to do both Iraq and Afghan
Really, now your a General in the Army and you know what we can and can't handle? So Mr. smarty pants... tell me, what is the reserve force in the U.S. right now? I know, so being a General you must know the exact number... go ahead and inform those that don't know.
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Rumsfeld showed himself to be a fool at the time, and hindsight has proven that right.
You don't ever half bellybutton a war, and you don't as a politician second guess your generals. He scoffed at their assertions and I'm glad he's out of office.
I stand behind and all our personnel over there! I hope we don't cut and run, but rather get the job done right!
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Holden McGroin, Elfie, VWE.. There are countless examples I could bring up, but none of them would ever be good enough. You guys clearly don't want to hear anything negative.
We could start with that "Symphony of lies" video that I posted a week ago.. or you could look at the one I posted in this topic.
As I've already posted in this topic, Bush and co "claimed" that they had no idea things would turn bad in Iraq. That is a lie because the video in this very thread shows that Dick Cheney knew exactly what was going to happen. It's the entire reason we didn't do the job in 91 or at least the excuse they used then.
Of that isn't good enough for you.. So we could talk about the Aluminum rods that Bush used in his State of the Union address, as an Example Iraq was trying to build nuclear weapons. It was already public record that that info had been discredited. (ie the Valery Plaime ordeal)
Of course that will never be good enough.. So we could get on the subject of Valery Plame and show how the admin lied to the American people about saying the leak didn't come from the White House. It of course has been proven to come from Dick Cheney's office.
Of course that's not good enough either.. So we could talk about how the President told us anyone involved in the leak would be held accountable and would no longer work for this admin. Of course that didn't happen either.
We could talk about how they claimed they knew "exactly" where the WMD's were or how they claimed Iraq was involved with 9/11 or how Saddam sponsored terrorists. Yet nothing will ever be good enough for people like you guys, so what's the sense even arguing with you?
I guess it's not lies right just not telling the truth. Nothing anyone says or shows you guys will ever be enough. Simply because it's not about what's right or wrong with you guys it's if you can feel good about backing the President and what you have argued for.
The king has no clothes but you will never see that, no matter what anyone says.
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Originally posted by crockett
Of course that will never be good enough.. So we could get on the subject of Valery Plame and show how the admin lied to the American people about saying the leak didn't come from the White House. It of course has been proven to come from Dick Cheney's office.
Of course that's not good enough either.. So we could talk about how the President told us anyone involved in the leak would be held accountable and would no longer work for this admin. Of course that didn't happen either.
armitage worked for the state department.
"Armitage acknowledged that he had passed along to Novak information contained in a classified State Department memo: that Wilson's wife worked on weapons-of-mass-destruction issues at the CIA. (The memo made no reference to her undercover status.) Armitage had met with Novak in his State Department office on July 8, 2003—just days before Novak published his first piece identifying Plame. Powell, Armitage and Taft, the only three officials at the State Department who knew the story, never breathed a word of it publicly and Armitage's role remained secret."
so why wasn't armitage charged? Because no crime had been committed. If fact no one was charged with the "leak". This plame thing has been gone over and over but you are the one that can't seem to see the truth.
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Originally posted by john9001
armitage worked for the state department.
"Armitage acknowledged that he had passed along to Novak information contained in a classified State Department memo: that Wilson's wife worked on weapons-of-mass-destruction issues at the CIA. (The memo made no reference to her undercover status.) Armitage had met with Novak in his State Department office on July 8, 2003—just days before Novak published his first piece identifying Plame. Powell, Armitage and Taft, the only three officials at the State Department who knew the story, never breathed a word of it publicly and Armitage's role remained secret."
so why wasn't armitage charged? Because no crime had been committed. If fact no one was charged with the "leak". This plame thing has been gone over and over but you are the one that can't seem to see the truth.
Following the revelations in the Libby indictment, sixteen former CIA and military intelligence officials urged President Bush to suspend Karl Rove's security clearance for his part in outing CIA officer Valerie Plame
Just because he wasn't charged doesn't mean he didn't do it. Or should I say have his hands in it. It was pretyy damn clear Scotter Libby was used as a fall guy, even some of the Jury said that.