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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: storch on August 14, 2007, 10:56:37 AM

Title: chairboy
Post by: storch on August 14, 2007, 10:56:37 AM
how has your surgery worked out for you?  have to gotten down to to your desired weight?  if so did you keep the weight off?
Title: chairboy
Post by: Chairboy on August 14, 2007, 11:05:01 AM
The surgery was great, but I'm not down to my target weight, mostly because of bad eating habits.  I've lost a lot, though, and I feel great because of the exercise I can do.  I had the adjustable gastric band put in, for anyone curious.

Nobody is responsible for my weight but myself, and every time I drink a milkshake, I know that I'm torpedoing my own cause, but I walk 2-3 miles a day on dedicated power walks at a minimum, and occasionally go to the gym at work, so I'm holding my own bad eating habits at bay, even if I'm not gaining ground right now.

The surgery, any surgery, is just a tool, not a miracle cure.  My wife lost a lot of weight and has kept most of it off, but we're both looking at our food habits and getting ready to make another stab at fixing our lifestyle stuff so we can USE the tool properly.

Thanks for your concern, though!  I still recommend this wholeheartedly over the gastric bypass for anyone who's obese but not crazy-circus-fat.  It's less invasive and doesn't require re-plumbing the insides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjustable_gastric_band
Title: chairboy
Post by: storch on August 14, 2007, 11:51:41 AM
thanks for the reply.  I started running one hour every day about a year ago in hopes of curbing my weight gain.  inspite of the running I gained seventeen pounds in that year.  one month ago I subjected myself to the tortures of working with a nutritionist because my doc said it has to be my eating habits.  I started the nutrisystem thing as part of the solution and in two weeks I have lost ten pounds and am now losing about a pound a day but I'm hungry all day long and I'm eating cardboard with sauces.  I'm still running but am considering the surgery as an alternative.  I have to shed sixty pounds.  aside from being considerably over weight I'm healthy and active but I can't balloon any further because it's getting difficult to tie my shoelaces.  :D
Title: chairboy
Post by: indy007 on August 14, 2007, 12:06:04 PM
A guy I train with went from 360 to 205 over several months. No surgery, no diet change. ... BUT ... he works out for several hours, 5+ days a week. Running, weights, kickboxing, and grappling. :O
Title: chairboy
Post by: storch on August 14, 2007, 12:11:54 PM
I suppose if one has the time to workout for 5 hours a day you could burn the calories you ingest.  I'm consuming 1500 calories a day but burning about 2500 according to the doc.  my fat is visceral fat and not between the skin and the muscles, from what I understand this is a very serious type of fat problem.
Title: chairboy
Post by: AquaShrimp on August 14, 2007, 12:26:32 PM
In order to lose one pound of fat, a person must run at least 72 miles.

Heres I came up with that.

A pound of fat is 3600 calories.

A person metabolizes 100 calories per mile (no matter what speed).

The most trained marathon runners, who burn fat at the utmost efficient rate, only obtain about 50% of their energy from fat.  The rest comes from glycogen.  So at best, a person is metabolizing less than 50% fat per mile.

So figuring 50% fat and 50% glycogen (best case scenario), it would take 72 miles to metabolize a pound of fat.
Title: chairboy
Post by: indy007 on August 14, 2007, 12:41:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I suppose if one has the time to workout for 5 hours a day you could burn the calories you ingest.  I'm consuming 1500 calories a day but burning about 2500 according to the doc.  my fat is visceral fat and not between the skin and the muscles, from what I understand this is a very serious type of fat problem.


I have no clue what the different types of fat are. I've had < 2% body fat since elementary school. My problem is the opposite. Unless I spend 10+ hours a week in the gym, I don't gain weight. Diet doesn't even matter. I consume on average over 3000 calories a day.

No surgery to help me out though :( Only 2 medical options are either implants to pretend like I have muscles and not actually be any stronger, or start taking HGH.

I said to hell with it and came to grips with the fact I'm gonna me this size my whole life unless I win the lottery and have the time to train more.
Title: chairboy
Post by: Masherbrum on August 14, 2007, 12:52:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I suppose if one has the time to workout for 5 hours a day you could burn the calories you ingest.  I'm consuming 1500 calories a day but burning about 2500 according to the doc.  my fat is visceral fat and not between the skin and the muscles, from what I understand this is a very serious type of fat problem.
I just signed up for a gym myself and probably have a slight visceral fat issue.   I've watched portions, cut out most pop (I'll have a rare Coke plus once every other week, if that) and now drink almost a gallon of water a day.

Visceral fat is tougher to get rid of than subcutaneous fat.    I worked with a co-worker who is a body-builder and competes in "natural tourneys" (no roids, etc).   He helped me to lose the weight I've already lost.    I eat regualr oatmeal in the morning (no sugar), and consume the carbs in the morning, and burn them throughout the day.   I'll be working out with a buddy so it helps to keep focused and motivated.

I'm like you, I cannot workout 5 hours a day.   It'll be 2 hours if I'm lucky.   Having a 5 year old son makes it tougher yet.  

<> storch (I know you and I have had go arounds, but I hold no grudge).
Title: chairboy
Post by: 68Hawk on August 14, 2007, 01:01:53 PM
Keep strong you guys!

My overly skinny bellybutton is going through the same thing right now with quitting smoking and trying to build up body mass.  Its not easy either.  

Martial arts is a great and fun way to get in shape.  I especially recommend a dojo that teaches weapons classes.  Get fit and learn to kick butt at the same time!  The Sai are my favorite, and you may like them too.

Just to contrast my experience, I have a hard time working up an appetite.  It really sucks when my stomach feels empty but I have no wish to put anything in it.  You guys may envy that, but at the same time I envy being able to eat when you want to.  Its not often any more that I get to really enjoy sinking my teeth into my food, and I miss it.  I eat for sustenance out of a utilitarian concern, and it might as well be cardboard.  I think I had a small Quiznos sub yesterday, spread out.  

The main thing I'm trying is to replace the smoking with exercise.  If I want a cig I try to go out and jog for 10 min or so.  That makes me really not want to smoke, especially at 5280 ft.  Is there some way you can replace your milkshake and not just ignore it?  I don't know, chug some water or something?  Just trying to help.
Title: chairboy
Post by: Eagler on August 14, 2007, 01:32:10 PM
willpower - not everyone has as much as they could use
Title: chairboy
Post by: storch on August 14, 2007, 01:36:38 PM
I didn't start gaining weight until I turned forty but in the last decade I gained sixty pounds.  I guess my body is just slowing down but I'm tired of being a fat bellybutton and I'm concerned with health issues down the road a ways.
Title: chairboy
Post by: Neubob on August 14, 2007, 01:44:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
In order to lose one pound of fat, a person must run at least 72 miles.

Heres I came up with that.

A pound of fat is 3600 calories.

A person metabolizes 100 calories per mile (no matter what speed).

The most trained marathon runners, who burn fat at the utmost efficient rate, only obtain about 50% of their energy from fat.  The rest comes from glycogen.  So at best, a person is metabolizing less than 50% fat per mile.

So figuring 50% fat and 50% glycogen (best case scenario), it would take 72 miles to metabolize a pound of fat.


So you're saying that a 250 pound person burns as many calories for every mile travelled as does a 125 pound person?
Title: chairboy
Post by: indy007 on August 14, 2007, 01:47:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 68Hawk
Martial arts is a great and fun way to get in shape.  I especially recommend a dojo that teaches weapons classes.  Get fit and learn to kick butt at the same time!  The Sai are my favorite, and you may like them too.


Bah, drop the wax on wax off silliness :) Full speed, full resistance sparring is the way. More useful techniques, much more intense workout. I do 3 hours two nights a week, and about to start Judo on the weekends. First few classes, I was ready to hurl after thirty minutes. Now I only occasionally throw up near the end of class. The downside is that submission grappling is really hard on your joints, and I still feel like I want to die after most classes. Probably the most intense workout I've ever had.

Quote

I didn't start gaining weight until I turned forty but in the last decade I gained sixty pounds. I guess my body is just slowing down but I'm tired of being a fat bellybutton and I'm concerned with health issues down the road a ways.


It's just work. It sucks, but it is what it is.
Title: chairboy
Post by: AquaShrimp on August 14, 2007, 02:09:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
So you're saying that a 250 pound person burns as many calories for every mile travelled as does a 125 pound person?


Weight does influence calories burned, but not by a huge amount.  The initial 100 calories per mile calculation was based on a 170lb person.  Probably less than a 25 calorie difference per mile.
Title: chairboy
Post by: storch on August 14, 2007, 02:19:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
Bah, drop the wax on wax off silliness :) Full speed, full resistance sparring is the way. More useful techniques, much more intense workout. I do 3 hours two nights a week, and about to start Judo on the weekends. First few classes, I was ready to hurl after thirty minutes. Now I only occasionally throw up near the end of class. The downside is that submission grappling is really hard on your joints, and I still feel like I want to die after most classes. Probably the most intense workout I've ever had.
 
 absolutely, kumite is the best way to actually learn to fight.  however kata is important, as the practioner learns the forms he is also developing muscle memory.  in time the moves become fluid, the style becomes second nature.  this is especially important when it comes to blocking and turning your blocks into blows or in other stuff, like catching a falling object or maintaining balance.  I had to stop fighting about two years ago after damaging my ankle, tearing my achilles tendon.  I don't think it will fully return to the way it was.  but even so I was gaining weight while working out at the dojo three nights a week.

it really is all about limiting intake and not so much excercise.
Title: chairboy
Post by: indy007 on August 14, 2007, 05:40:57 PM
well bro... let us know how it works out. I'm the last person to give diet advice. My blood type is gravy. All I know is that it really helps to enjoy skinless chicken breasts and have a lot of different marinades. :(
Title: no one likes a fat bruce lee :)
Post by: Eagler on August 14, 2007, 06:41:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
it really is all about limiting intake and not so much excercise.


it's about both

1st step is to shrink your stomach - either naturally or with a docs help

most ppl have eating issues because they have other issues in their lives and use food to medicate
Title: chairboy
Post by: Maverick on August 14, 2007, 09:54:40 PM
Chairboy,

Does the implant stay static or is it "user" adjustable? How long do you figure on keeping it or is there a specific time limit you can keep it?

How long was your hospital stay when you got it?

I've seen the commercials about it but didn't pay any attention to them. Heck I mute almost all the commercials on the tube as long as I have direct access to the remote.
Title: chairboy
Post by: Holden McGroin on August 14, 2007, 09:54:52 PM
Hey Chairboy:

Go on up 58 to Dexter Reservoir, cross the covered bridge, and turn left in Lowell.  Just past the park / marina is where U of Oregon has their rowing facility, and the Eugene area rowing club is there.

Getting into a rowing shell and around people who row is a good way of keeping fit.

OAR (http://www.oarowing.org/)
Title: chairboy
Post by: Chairboy on August 14, 2007, 09:59:25 PM
Maverick: Operation was about 15 minutes, stayed two days total for observation.  It's permanent but easy to remove, and fully adjustable....  by a nurse with a syringe.  There's a refill port under my skin that's used to modify it.
Title: chairboy
Post by: gunnss on August 15, 2007, 02:18:35 AM
Weight is a funny thing.
I have spent most of my life with weigh at levels, jumping up in sudden surges. For example when I turned 28 I gained 50 lb over the span of 4 months, at 39 I had a series of steroid shots I received to combat nerve damage from GW I, and each shot added 5 lb. other than that my weight seems to be nailed to the wall, eating a lot or a little does not seem to alter any thing, regardless of the caloric intake. My weight seem impervious to alteration and has been rock stable for the past 12 years. (stayed with in 5 lb of the median trending slightly downward)

As to the martial arts, if you really want to burn Calories, go join the SCA, Hand to hand combat with "Swords" that are wooden clubs used a t full power full speed and no choreographing or ques to the opponent while wearing full armor. Think full contact base ball bats while wearing 45 to 70 lb of protective padding. I've been doing this for 37 years.

Pic,
http://www.scademo.com/images.demo/logan_sapphirefalcone.jpg

Web page....
http://www.scademo.com/demo.fighting.php


Regards,
Kevin
AKA
Thorgierr Gunnarsson KSCA
Title: chairboy
Post by: oldtard on August 15, 2007, 02:50:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
In order to lose one pound of fat, a person must run at least 72 miles.

Heres I came up with that.

A pound of fat is 3600 calories.

A person metabolizes 100 calories per mile (no matter what speed).

The most trained marathon runners, who burn fat at the utmost efficient rate, only obtain about 50% of their energy from fat.  The rest comes from glycogen.  So at best, a person is metabolizing less than 50% fat per mile.

So figuring 50% fat and 50% glycogen (best case scenario), it would take 72 miles to metabolize a pound of fat.


Please post the site you got this info from please I belive its flawed
#1 you really cant compare marathon runners to over weight people because true marathon runners are lean anyway they have less fat so there fore it would be harder for them to lose it.(never see fat people or body builders running marathons anyway)

#2 the more you do the same exerices the more your body get used to (thats why people hit platos in there training if you dont vary your training then your training will become stale (EXAMPLE a 300 pound man jogs to miles a day the first 3 weeks he would lose a nice amount of weight but if said man never ran any further than 2 miles then he would stop losing weight after awhile because you body became used to the stresses you are putting on it)

There are alot of factors that can speed up this process or slow down this process.

Now I may have misunderstood what you are trying to convey here and if I did I am sorry  guys and good luck
Title: storch, check this out
Post by: culero on August 15, 2007, 03:04:09 AM
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0451173392/lowcarbcanad/

storch, there's a lot of info out there about low-carb dieting. The book that link shows is what opened my eyes. I strongly recommend you read it. It breaks the theory behind low-carb dieting into common sense explanations a layman can grasp.

It made so much sense to me that I tried it. I'm similar to how you describe yourself - never had a weight gain problem until I was 40, after that the weight just seemed to accumulate no matter how much I worked out, watched fat, calories, etc.

I tried the approach the doctor-authors suggested, after having bought into the theory based on their explanations. It worked, to the tune of 35 pounds lost in 6 weeks that I was able to maintain off.

Best thing is, I never felt hungry. I ate the same volume of food, just replaced carbs with veggies and a tad more meat (mmm, meat :))

Short stroke: carbs make fat grow on your body worse than any other food source, and because they are digested so easily your body develops an addiction to them. You deal with carb intake like a drug addiction, and you will be successful. Once you achieve the weight loss you desire, you can add moderate amounts back to your diet for long-term balance.

This is no BS, it really works.
Title: chairboy
Post by: VWE on August 15, 2007, 03:18:20 AM
I workout an hour a day, in the moring usually. I do muscle failure on Tuesdays and Thursdays and run Monday-Wensday-Friday. Usual run is 3 to 4 miles and 6 on Fridays with the weekend to recoup. I pretty much eat what I want, just most of what I like happens to be good for me.

Growing up as a kid there wasn't anything in the house that was sweet other than mainly fruit. When I'm home my fridge is top to bottom with fruit and veggies.

Over here I'm about 20 pounds heavy at 260, but being 6'5" you can't really see it.
Title: chairboy
Post by: 68Hawk on August 15, 2007, 03:41:13 AM
SCA heavy fighters!

Not totally my bag though.

I was with the archers!
Title: chairboy
Post by: storch on August 15, 2007, 06:52:07 AM
gunss, we worked out with a shinai, as well as with a bo, without the pads.  if you didn't parry you took the hit on your person. :D

culero, carb addicts?  damn if that don't sound like anti cuban cuisine :lol  it's a foregone conclusion that from here on out my favorite foods are going the way of the dodo where I'm concerned.  I may just go full japanese and start eating bait, anything is better than eating the nutrisystems sauce covered cardboard.  I just ordered the book, thanks for the suggestion.

today I weighed in at 232lbs that means I've lost 23 lbs in 17 days.

maybe tomorrow I'll eat that doc and see what cannibalism is all about.
damn I'm hungry :D
Title: chairboy
Post by: indy007 on August 15, 2007, 08:10:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 68Hawk
SCA heavy fighters!

Not totally my bag though.

I was with the archers!


Typical. No love for the fencers. :rolleyes:  :)
Title: chairboy
Post by: Halo on August 15, 2007, 11:33:25 AM
Losing weight is tough.  I finally got to counting calories and realizing what those incessant snacks even of healthy foods were doing.  

A technique that helps me is the Concept of One (my own invention).  I limit myself to ONE of several things I used to consume carelessly, e.g., graham cracker, Hershey kiss, popsicle, glass of wine, and NONE of bad stuff like ice cream, potato chips, candy bars, beer.

Usually have light healthy breakfast focused on oatmeal and bran, meal of day by 3 p.m., and no food after 8 p.m.  Mainly vegetables, some chicken, one modest (i.e., no larger than hand size) portion and sometimes a second.  Low fat yogurt for dessert (one container, 100 calories).  

Over the years food had become recreation instead of sustenance.  Not good.

Rarely eat at restaurants any more, but when I do, just small carefully selected portions.

Good doctor finally made me see the light.  Diet and exercise vs. prescriptions and increasingly expensive medical treatment.  

He said we need water every day but can go FORTY days without food.  I don't intend to test that theory to the limit, but excellent point well made.

I'm down 40 pounds from worst weight and 20 pounds from a perpetual retirement weight gained from carelessness and indulgence.  10 more to go to finally return to optimum.  

Good news is that weight savings from consumption savings equals financial savings too.
Title: chairboy
Post by: Eagler on August 15, 2007, 12:00:45 PM
a little chart to help you figure out how fat you are :)

(http://win.niddk.nih.gov/publications/understanding/bmi.jpg)
Title: chairboy
Post by: BigGun on August 15, 2007, 12:03:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
gunss, we worked out with a shinai, as well as with a bo, without the pads.  if you didn't parry you took the hit on your person. :D

culero, carb addicts?  damn if that don't sound like anti cuban cuisine :lol  it's a foregone conclusion that from here on out my favorite foods are going the way of the dodo where I'm concerned.  I may just go full japanese and start eating bait, anything is better than eating the nutrisystems sauce covered cardboard.  I just ordered the book, thanks for the suggestion.

today I weighed in at 232lbs that means I've lost 23 lbs in 17 days.

maybe tomorrow I'll eat that doc and see what cannibalism is all about.
damn I'm hungry :D


Why not just eat some of them DR dogs?
Title: chairboy
Post by: Maverick on August 15, 2007, 12:29:39 PM
Chairboy,

Thanks for the info, that cleared up some things I was curious about. Seems like a much better idea than staples!
Title: chairboy
Post by: indy007 on August 15, 2007, 12:47:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
a little chart to help you figure out how fat you are :)


BMI charts are crap =P They were literally just made up by a statician with no medical background.. iirc.. not too long after the 1900s. Same crap the media uses to perpetuate the lie that obesity is an epidemic. If that chart were right, some of the guys I train with would be "unhealthy" or "obese".. even though they're solid muscle with cardio for days.
Title: chairboy
Post by: Eagler on August 15, 2007, 12:50:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
BMI charts are crap =P They were literally just made up by a statician with no medical background.. iirc.. not too long after the 1900s. Same crap the media uses to perpetuate the lie that obesity is an epidemic. If that chart were right, some of the guys I train with would be "unhealthy" or "obese".. even though they're solid muscle with cardio for days.


for the average person, they are an accurate guideline to try to meet

ps

obesity in this country is an epidemic
Title: chairboy
Post by: Speed55 on August 15, 2007, 01:16:34 PM
You can get yourself looking good if you pick a few exercises and stick with them.  

This is just an example workout that you can do at home.  
You can use dumbells for the presses and arm curls.

Buy a notebook to keep track, and don't cheat.  
Week 1
Push ups - Daily - 25
Pull ups or Presses   - Daily-  10
Chin ups  or Arm Curls - Daily -  10
Sit ups   (Mon,Wed,Fri) -   25
Crunches (Tue, Thur) -  25

Week 2 - Increase all numbers by 5
Week 3 - Increase all numbers by 5
Week 4 -  "             "             "

The object is to workout EVERY DAY, and increase your reps every week.
So by the example above, on week 4 your doing 45 pushups a day.
Title: chairboy
Post by: Replicant on August 15, 2007, 01:30:36 PM
I put a lot of weight on after moving from a manual job to a desk job and then sitting around playing AH all day ;) lol  I haven't played AH for 3 years now and last year I decided to lose weight.  I managed to lose 60 lbs in 5 months initially by changing my eating habits, i.e. eating a healthy breakfast, salad/fruit for lunch and then something like rice & chicken for dinner.  I initially started cycling a few miles a day then, 5 miles, then 8 miles, then 10 miles and then finally 12.5 miles.  I also bought a cross trainer to supplement the exercising.  This year I put about 14 lbs back on but I've just managed to lose that plus another 4 lbs.  I'm now doing 10 miles cycling on a TACX machine before I go to work in the morning and then 36 mins (nearly 5 miles) on a cross trainer at night, plus some dumb-bell work & sit-ups.  I do the cycling & crosstraining everyday unless I'm on holiday or have a bad hangover ;)  I have to say that this is the healthiest I've ever been in my life but with exercise comes little injuries too - two cycling accidents resulted in a damaged knee cartilage but that's just about okay now but I also fractured two ribs in another fall.  I also have to have a hand operation for the same fall.  It can all be a bit exhausting but losing 6 inches on you waist is a good incentive :)  Damn expensive changing your wardrobe though!

Good luck to everyone else losing weight.
Title: chairboy
Post by: indy007 on August 15, 2007, 01:40:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
for the average person, they are an accurate guideline to try to meet

ps

obesity in this country is an epidemic


No, they're not. They're just made up numbers. They just happen to be what the government gave us.

ps

there is no epidemic. :) it's garbage perpetuated to fuel sales. I have yet to trip over the bodies of all the rapidly expiring fat people. There's a big difference between being grotesquely, health endangering fat, and what the government terms "obese".
Title: chairboy
Post by: storch on August 15, 2007, 03:46:53 PM
according to eagler's chart I'm obese at 232lbs. yet I can run for an hour without stopping and hardly breaking a sweat.  it seems off or at the very least certainly not applicable across the board.
Title: chairboy
Post by: culero on August 15, 2007, 06:37:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
snip
culero, carb addicts?  damn if that don't sound like anti cuban cuisine :lol  it's a foregone conclusion that from here on out my favorite foods are going the way of the dodo where I'm concerned.  I may just go full japanese and start eating bait, anything is better than eating the nutrisystems sauce covered cardboard.  I just ordered the book, thanks for the suggestion.


Welcome. I dunno squat about cubano cuisine, but its DAMN sure anti-meskin :)

The basic routine according to my read and experience is to go "cold-turkey" on the carbs for a few weeks, to break the cycle. Then you add back in a little as you see the weight loss occur, eventually arriving at a balance that combined with your metabolism and lifestyle yields stability at the weight you want.

At first, you're eating like one piece of toast with breakfast, and about that much carb in whatever form you want as a "reward" at the end of the day, nada in between (I went with a coffee cup of ice cream after supper, YMMV). The good side is you replace the food bulk with veggies, meat, eggs, etc - no need to be hungry at all. I found it tolerable, all you have to deal with is carb craving, which isn't that hard (you can combat it with chewing jerky, for instance). Later, you'll be able to eat reasonable amounts of carbs at all mealtimes (just avoid the snacks).

The really interesting aspect is the theory behind it. It seems that carbs are the easiest thing for the body to convert to sugar (muscle energy fuel). If you deny your body that, its forced to work the digestive system harder to fuel your muscles by converting fat, a more complex operation. Thus, you burn fat as you ingest it, preventing it from being stored (your body's natural famine strategy). The way these folks present it, it really makes sense.
Title: chairboy
Post by: oldtard on August 16, 2007, 01:33:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
a little chart to help you figure out how fat you are :)

(http://win.niddk.nih.gov/publications/understanding/bmi.jpg)


That chart is from like 1955 so total BS

Please dont POST crap to help others if you DONT KNOW 100% WHAT YOU TALKING ABOUT

i HAVE BEEN A GYM RAT FROM 16 YEARS OLD (i AM NOW 42  YEARS OLD)
I have trained many many people, and after 26 exp I know for a fact that people (with half facts and half truths even though they had the best intensions have hurt people  more than they ever could help them)
Title: chairboy
Post by: oldtard on August 16, 2007, 01:45:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
BMI charts are crap =P They were literally just made up by a statician with no medical background.. iirc.. not too long after the 1900s. Same crap the media uses to perpetuate the lie that obesity is an epidemic. If that chart were right, some of the guys I train with would be "unhealthy" or "obese".. even though they're solid muscle with cardio for days.


You are correct sir at 6ft tall i weighed 242 lbs I have benched over 425 squated over 600  and dead lifted over 500(free weights)
on machines 600 bench 1840 lbs (and yes I mean 1840 lbs) front squats machine and 800 dead lifts) with a body fat percentage of 10%.

I would have failed the charts for over 15 years.
Title: chairboy
Post by: Eagler on August 16, 2007, 05:42:57 AM
the chart is for the "average" joe - not a hercules like yourself or bruce lee storch

for the MAJORITY of the public sitting at 242lbs with of height of 6ft - I will bet they are obese and unhealthy. The info is not from 1955 but from HERE (http://win.niddk.nih.gov/publications/understanding.htm)

one thing you cannot argue about the chart is that if you are in it's "healthy weight" range - you DO NOT have a weight issue (me :) )

indy007 must live in a "skinny" state as every other person I see out in public is overweight if not an obese lard arse which imo makes it an epidemic
Title: chairboy
Post by: soda72 on August 16, 2007, 06:06:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
the chart is for the "average" joe - not a hercules like yourself or bruce lee storch


Quote
BMI has its limitations because it does not measure body fat or muscle directly.


The chart should be ok for 'average' joe...

I think the military uses this data as well.  I remember when I was in the service that any soldier who was over 210 lbs and is 6'4" had to be measured.
Title: chairboy
Post by: VWE on August 16, 2007, 06:39:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Speed55
You can get yourself looking good if you pick a few exercises and stick with them.  

This is just an example workout that you can do at home.  
You can use dumbells for the presses and arm curls.

Buy a notebook to keep track, and don't cheat.  
Week 1
Push ups - Daily - 25
Pull ups or Presses   - Daily-  10
Chin ups  or Arm Curls - Daily -  10
Sit ups   (Mon,Wed,Fri) -   25
Crunches (Tue, Thur) -  25

Week 2 - Increase all numbers by 5
Week 3 - Increase all numbers by 5
Week 4 -  "             "             "

The object is to workout EVERY DAY, and increase your reps every week.
So by the example above, on week 4 your doing 45 pushups a day.


Ha! I'd be willing to bet you a weeks pay 80% of the people that play this game couldn't do 10 real pushups! We'll test this thoery out at the next con... and bring me my money!
Title: chairboy
Post by: Eagler on August 16, 2007, 07:41:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by VWE
Ha! I'd be willing to bet you a weeks pay 80% of the people that play this game couldn't do 10 real pushups! We'll test this thoery out at the next con... and bring me my money!


my guess is that they'd be rocking on their belly before their arms reached the ground :)
Title: chairboy
Post by: storch on August 16, 2007, 08:14:28 AM
irrespective of the validity of the chart one has but to walk the mall on any given evening and you can't help but see how bad of a physical shape we are in.  what's worse is the kids I don't think there have been so many rotund children anywhere, ever.  it's obesity, it's alarming and it's epidemic.

I'm 5-10 weighing in today at 231lbs. I'm feeling much better and needing to buy need clothes but I do consider myself obese and the weight simply needs to come off and I must keep it off or at some point in the future go on stronger blood pressure medication, become diabetic and all the other complications that are consequential to making unwise lifestyle choices.

eagler I'm not bruce lee I'm not even chinese silly plus bruce lee was uber skinny.

VWE you are correct about the pushups and it's not just the players here but 80% of the population including kids in school.

we are soft physically and mentally. we are also fat.
Title: chairboy
Post by: Gunthr on August 16, 2007, 08:43:43 AM
visceral fat .... i think my buddy has this.   he has a big fat hard round pot belly.  when he thumps it, it sounds like a watermelon.  that can't be good.

he had a real bad comb over too, until one day he bent over too far and it unfolded out like an accordian, or like wallet photos, about 4 feet long, growing from the side of his head.  i razzed him so bad he shaved his head and now he looks like a million bucks and its low maintenance.  

i think im going to razz him into going on the low carb diet.   can't hurt...
Title: chairboy
Post by: Speed55 on August 16, 2007, 08:44:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by VWE
Ha! I'd be willing to bet you a weeks pay 80% of the people that play this game couldn't do 10 real pushups! We'll test this thoery out at the next con... and bring me my money!


:lol

Could be, but it's never to late to start.
Title: chairboy
Post by: storch on August 16, 2007, 11:03:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunthr
visceral fat .... i think my buddy has this.   he has a big fat hard round pot belly.  when he thumps it, it sounds like a watermelon.  that can't be good.

he had a real bad comb over too, until one day he bent over too far and it unfolded out like an accordian, or like wallet photos, about 4 feet long, growing from the side of his head.  i razzed him so bad he shaved his head and now he looks like a million bucks and its low maintenance.  

i think im going to razz him into going on the low carb diet.   can't hurt...
if he gets an ultrasound and the doc interprets the image to him it's very sobering.  I don't know if that's standard practice.  my doc did it possibly because I was discounting his opinion and he was bothered by my response.
Title: chairboy
Post by: Gunthr on August 16, 2007, 04:24:13 PM
my doctor was eventually able to get my attention too Storch, but regarding diabetes.  Good luck on the running.  its a very effective workout time-wise, but I can't do it because of bad knees.  luckily, i can work my major muscle groups pretty well on my bicycle.  i wear eight pounds on each ankle and do 14 miles 4 days a week.  thank goodness for Ipods.



should add i've been doing the low carb thing for a while.  high fructose fruits like juicy peaches are a treat for me.  i really like things like steamed fresh spinach, kale, fresh string beans, plenty of veggies, lots of grilled fresh fish,  i have a pizza or blackbean/rice blow out now and then.  hot sauce/wassabi helps me.
Title: chairboy
Post by: storch on August 16, 2007, 04:42:35 PM
I have a bike but I can't ride it for long without causing pain in my groin.  I get a pinched nerve or something and it's over with the bike.  because of my torn achilles tendon and the subsequent improper healing I run with short strides so not very fast but never the less my heart rate gets up to 160 or so and my blood pressure drops to 106/60 or so after the workout.  by running I have been able to go from two medications taken once daily each to just one prior to bed time.

I'm hoping that by getting down to 175/180 lbs I might be able to come off of the blood pressure medication altogether.

the doc says that I respond very well to exercise and that it will need to be a daily routine for the rest of my life.

I have a nice set of weights/equipment and I do a very limited amount of resistance work but don't like it because it tends to limit my flexibility but the doc says that as I age resistance will become increasingly more important in maintaining muscle mass as the aging process tends to atrophy muscles naturally.
Title: chairboy
Post by: Gunthr on August 16, 2007, 04:55:58 PM
getting the heart rate up means everything for the training effect - you know - that feeling that you're getting in shape with lower resting bp.
Title: chairboy
Post by: 68ROX on August 16, 2007, 05:11:05 PM
Two words......Chromium Picolinate.

I used to be a Super-Heavyweight class wrestler.  My wrestling weight was about 275...working out everyday but Sunday.  After I retired (The USA boycotted the 1980 Moscow Olympic Games, and I had no intention of waiting around until the LA games in '84)...I balooned up to about 375.

In 1994, I was sick and tired of being large.  I started Slim-Fast, and began walking.  Started the first day at 12 blocks...16 months later it was 5 miles.

I mentioned my diet on the air one day (self depricating humor)...I get a call on the request line.  Turns out a few of my listeners are pharmacists at the Duke University Hospital in Durham (World famous for the Duke Diet Center).  He tells me about chromium picolinate, and how it "lies" to your blood sugar level (keeping it level, instead of peaks and---the valleys that tell your brain you are hungry.)

I thought the guy was bonkers, but I decided to give it a try.

The directions on the bottle are BS...I'd take 12 in the morning and not even THINK of being hungry until 6-7PM in the evening.

Between the Slim-Fast, walking, and the chromium...I lost 191 lbs on 16 months.

If you look at the label of those super expensive diet pills, the first ingredient in most cases is....chromium picolinate.  You gan get a bottle of 500 mU's at Walmart of about 5 bucks.

I have gained 20 of it back, but am in the process of losing that back down.

It will probably take 3 or 4 months, but will be worth it.

Good luck to all in the struggle with the scale.

68ROX
Title: chairboy
Post by: storch on August 16, 2007, 05:33:37 PM
my pharmacist suggested the same about chromium picolanate
Title: chairboy
Post by: Maverick on August 17, 2007, 12:12:33 PM
What did he /she say about the dosage though? Taking 12 sounds pretty extreme and I'd be concerned about any side effects or other physiological changes from a high dosage.
Title: chairboy
Post by: storch on August 17, 2007, 12:26:37 PM
if you are asking me I didn't pursue the suggestion.  what I'm currently doing is working well and I'm going to continue.  the doc has me modifying my eating with the same caloric intake but much more frequent "snacking" so I'm not hungry all day long.  also monday will be three weeks and I'm becoming accustomed to the smaller portions I'm eating.

I feel weaker though, I'm hoping this is just part of the process and that I will become adapted to the changes.

it might also be that I now have 26lbs less of body mass to apply at a physical task.
Title: chairboy
Post by: Maverick on August 17, 2007, 12:30:50 PM
It really was aimed at both of you actually. Thanks for the answer.

The weakness might also be because you are still adjusting to a lower blood sugar count. Burning fat doesn't produce the same amount of energy as what your body was used to before. The changes will take some time for you to acclimate.

I'm curious about this as my step daughter has a weight problem and may end up needing some help like the lap band or something else. Simply dieting isn't getting it done for her.
Title: chairboy
Post by: indy007 on August 17, 2007, 01:06:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
indy007 must live in a "skinny" state as every other person I see out in public is overweight if not an obese lard arse which imo makes it an epidemic


I'm pretty far from hercules :) I bench a whopping 155, 10 pounds over my bodyweight. I live in what is supposed to be on the fattest cities on the planet... and you see it sometimes, but it's not a glaring %. I dunno, maybe the really fat people are inside soaking up the a/c? Lived in Tampa & Houston each for a decade. On average, I'd say Texans are generally bigger... not so much fatter... just larger all around.

I just don't see it as an epidemic. Yeah, some people have problems and need to exercise.. but an epidemic? Nah... about as much chance of obesity being an epedimic as man melting the planet in the next 10 years with co2.
Title: chairboy
Post by: Masherbrum on August 17, 2007, 03:26:35 PM
I weighed in at the Powerhouse Gym on Monday - 268

Today - 255.    I worked out maybe 4 hours total this week.   Stayed away from bad foods.


I'm liking this.
Title: chairboy
Post by: 68ROX on August 17, 2007, 05:41:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
What did he /she say about the dosage though? Taking 12 sounds pretty extreme and I'd be concerned about any side effects or other physiological changes from a high dosage.



I have talked to multiple physicians about chromium, and none have had any misgivings.

Chromium is naturally found in lobster, so if you are alergic to lobster/shellfish, consult with your physician first.

His instructions were 2-3 when I got up and 2 hours before lunch and dinner.  Since I did Slim-Fast for Breakfast & Dinner, this worked out great.

The 2-3 a day on the bottle just didn't cut it for me.

I "worked" my way up to 10-12 in the morning (I wouldn't advise taking that many right off the bat), and DID NOT feel at all hungry until 6 or 7 PM.

Don't take it on an empty stomach...a full 8 oz glass of vegatable juice or water worked for me.

There are no adverse side effects.  It's just like vitamins, your body "eliminates" what you do not metabolize (in other words, you urinitate what your body doesn't need.)

If you DO take it in larger doses, sometimes you might get a little red in the face.  

It has been know to turn folks who take it regularly into horndogs.  ;)


BTW: WTG Masherbrum!!!!



68ROX
Title: chairboy
Post by: lazs2 on August 18, 2007, 09:38:34 AM
Little over 6' tall and about 190.

lifetime of hard labor followed by a desk job for 10 years.   I am about 10-15 lbs over the weight that was the best shape I was ever in which was... pretty good.

I don't feel too bad.. I am retirement age and I eat what I want....

I exercise daily and am a naturally hyper type.

Got big mirrors on the closet.. when I have to look at myself getting ready for the shower... that makes me think about it a little more.   Pants getting tight is unacceptable.

I do notice that most of the fat people I know don't move much.   The complain if I don't look for that parking spot 30' from the door to a store.   They say they don't eat much but seem to be eating all the time to me.   things like potato chips and such.

lazs
Title: chairboy
Post by: Gunthr on August 18, 2007, 12:02:49 PM
because our metabolism rate goes down as we get older, most of us older guys need to crank that metabolism up with exercise in order to stay fit.  that means getting your heart rate up to 60 - 80 percent of your maximum heart rate (based on age and weight).  you can look up what your max rate should be on the internet.  

if you get your heart rate up to 60 - 80 % for at least 30 mins a day, you  are stoking up that furnace, and your elevated metabolism will continue to burn calories at a higher rate for the remainder of the day, even when you are resting.

diet alone won't cut it when you are older.  but when you combine a reasonably healthy diet with regular exercise, you will see results and get the bounce back in your step.

it is kinda funny to see people circle a parking lot endlessly to get 10 feet closer to an entrance, when a little walk might do them some good...
Title: chairboy
Post by: Eagler on August 18, 2007, 03:41:08 PM
if you diet without exercise, you lose more muscle weight than fat weight. You have to move and throw in some resistance exercise of your choice while you diet for best results.
Title: chairboy
Post by: AquaShrimp on August 18, 2007, 03:53:14 PM
Whoa whoa whoa.  He didnt mean he took 12 chromiums in the morning.  He meant he took a chromium at 12 in the morning.  Chromium can quickly become toxic if you take too much.  Do a search, you can find medical studies of body builders taking too much chromium and ruining their livers.