Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: sparow on August 15, 2007, 11:38:16 AM
-
Hi all,
I believe that proxy kills are a very unfair thing. Several times I have benefited from this but I hate it. There is no point in getting a kill without, at least, landing a .303 on his machine...
And, also, it's very annoying when the ackweenies do all the work and a close-by eye-witness gets the kill...
End the Proxy kills! Give the Ack-Weenies credit for their kills!
Make people fight for their kills, not hug ack!
Cheers,
-
Folks don't hug ack to deny kill rights. They hug ack so the enemy dies.
Kill message or no, they're still going to hug ack.
Instead, you just have to tell all the morons that go diving into it looking for a cheap pick/vulch to STOP going into the ACK!!!
HTC increased ack potency recently, when he added more ack guns to the fields. Just stay OUT of it, dadgummit! Problem solved!
-
Hi,
Not ranting against ack-huggers. I really feel proxy kills are unfair and undeserved kills.
The other day I was chasing a buff formation and got kills just because I was there...Not a single shot fired. This is not fair.
Giving ack-weenies credit for their kills, well, would be a way to avoid giving them to who does not deserve them at all.
Ack-huggers may do whatever they like, have nothing to do with that. But I surely qould feel better if the message was: Sparow was shot down by the Ack-Weenies...
Cheers,
-
Proxies do not count towards perks or score, so why do you care about it? If you got 3 kills you did not deserve and you're having moral issues about it, then just don't land them! Prob solved!:aok
-
How else can you get kills in a goon?
-
Originally posted by SkyRock
Proxies do not count towards perks or score, so why do you care about it? If you got 3 kills you did not deserve and you're having moral issues about it, then just don't land them! Prob solved!:aok
proxys count towards kill to death and kill per sortie
-
Originally posted by kilz
proxys count towards kill to death and kill per sortie
No, they do not! Only if you actually hit them with something!
-
Originally posted by sparow
End the Proxy kills! Give the Ack-Weenies credit for their kills!
I think you will change you mind after your 20th victim will dive in your acks just to give them kill not you.
They will do it, believe me.
-
Originally posted by SkyRock
No, they do not! Only if you actually hit them with something!
You are wrong. They are kills just like any other for K/D purposes. They just don't give you perk points.
-
Originally posted by Lusche
You are wrong. They are kills just like any other for K/D purposes. They just don't give you perk points.
Correct.
-
I'm pretty sure that's not so...
They may show in the breakdown of kills per plane (expanded stats) but they aren't counted in your score stats. I recall getting some proxies but not having them show up in score more than once, but this was some time ago.
-
Originally posted by Krusty
I'm pretty sure that's not so...
They may show in the breakdown of kills per plane (expanded stats) but they aren't counted in your score stats. I recall getting some proxies but not having them show up in score more than once, but this was some time ago.
Wrong.
The kills that do not count for K/D purposes are GV kills in fighter mode. Proxies do.
When I got a proxy kill on BaldEagl yesterday (he augered), that kill did improve my K/D stat.
-
Ack kills would be better off with just a "You have been killed by AcK", but flying people into the ground should still count as a proxy.
I'm usually the one stalling and eating earth, but it's because I had to be at the edge of the envelope during a fight and the guy that out flew me deserves it. Once in awhile it's the other guy augering and I have no problem being given the kill.
-
I dont believe the word unfair is appropriate in the original post. Especially when joined by the word very. I think you should lose some perks or something for using them together in a whine like that.
-
Originally posted by Krusty
I'm pretty sure that's not so...
They may show in the breakdown of kills per plane (expanded stats) but they aren't counted in your score stats. I recall getting some proxies but not having them show up in score more than once, but this was some time ago.
I agree..
I was lucky enough to get 3 proxies in a C-47 the other night. I was on the ground at a V base dropping troops. When we got the base, 3 osties got taken out and I got the kills.
If you will look here Scca's Scores (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/newscores/pilot.php?selectTour=Tour91&playername=Scca&action=1) you will see I have 1 bomber kill. If you go here "Kills" link at bottom of page (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killstat.php?selectTour=Tour91&player=Scca&kt=95) You will see I have 3 C-47 kills (it's a bomber right?) and 5 Ship Gunner kills for a total of 8. At the bottom of the page there is a comment "Total Kills not counted towards Rank", that equals 8.
Sounds to me, you may get name in lights credits, but nothing towards rank for proxy kills if you had no effect on their demise.
I am guessing if you put a signal round into them, and they crash, you will get the credit for rank purposes. The one acception is ship gunner/ground gun kills. They don't count toward rank because you can't "die".
-
Originally posted by Scca
I agree..
I was lucky enough to get 3 proxies in a C-47 the other night. I was on the ground at a V base dropping troops. When we got the base, 3 osties got taken out and I got the kills.
If you will look here Scca's Scores (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/newscores/pilot.php?selectTour=Tour91&playername=Scca&action=1) you will see I have 1 bomber kill. If you go here "Kills" link at bottom of page (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killstat.php?selectTour=Tour91&player=Scca&kt=95) You will see I have 3 C-47 kills (it's a bomber right?) and 5 Ship Gunner kills for a total of 8. At the bottom of the page there is a comment "Total Kills not counted towards Rank", that equals 8.
Because GV kills in bomber are treated the same way like GV kills in fighters. Even if you bomb them (=no proxy) the only appear in expanded stats.
Proxy kills on enemy PLANES still count...
-
I'd like the ack weenies to get credit for their own kills so that I can tell whether I actually hit anything when in a field gun.
As it is now, I'm never sure (although I strongly suspect that I'm about as dangerous as a daffodil waving in the breeze when I man one...)
Have fun trying though!
-
Always thought that proxy DEATHS count on both stats and score. Deaths without a "killer" count for scores and NOT for stats.
But I'm almost positive that proxy kills do not show up as kills on the scores pages. They do count on Stats pages. If you're right Lusche, and proxies do help the KPD, then that is DEFINITELY a change from the way things used to be.
(I'm sure of that because I back when I was starting I ran a spreadsheet that figured duplicated the AH stats, and added other calculations on top of them....and the formula I used did not count proxies, but got the same results AH did.)
-
Are you guys talking about manned ack?????? If the manned gun gets a hit he gets the kill. If not, who ever is closest. Am I missing something here?
-
Originally posted by Lusche
Because GV kills in bomber are treated the same way like GV kills in fighters. Even if you bomb them (=no proxy) the only appear in expanded stats.
Proxy kills on enemy PLANES still count...
not according to the AH help files:
Kills per Death = TotalKills / ((Discos * 0.5) + Bails + Captures + Deaths + 1)
TotalKills are just air-to-air kills for fighter missions, air-to-air + air-to-ground kills for all other mission types
-
Originally posted by Lusche
Because GV kills in bomber are treated the same way like GV kills in fighters. Even if you bomb them (=no proxy) the only appear in expanded stats.
Proxy kills on enemy PLANES still count...
....unless you are in attack mode, then the ground kills on GV's count.
It's all so confusing SKUZZY HELP!!! This is more confusing than my VISA rewards points..
-
Originally posted by Scca
....unless you are in attack mode, then the ground kills on GV's count.
Yup. I should have said "fighter mode" instead of "fighters" ;)
-
Originally posted by Simaril
not according to the AH help files:
quote:
Kills per Death = TotalKills / ((Discos * 0.5) + Bails + Captures + Deaths + 1)
TotalKills are just air-to-air kills for fighter missions, air-to-air + air-to-ground kills for all other mission types
That does not contradict my statements.
Bombers do not have a "Kills per death" score at all. So the above formula is only relevant to kills in attack or fighter mode.
If you bomb a GV in bomber mode, it will only show on your expanded stats.
I did that sometimes in old TT, bombing spawns from 20k. None of the kills ever showed on scorepage, just on "stats". ;)
-
Originally posted by Simaril
not according to the AH help files:
The AH help files also say
We have ten base categories that are scored at the end of each sortie depending upon your mission type. Only air categories are scored for fighter mission types, ground categories only for bomber mission types, and both air and ground are scored for attack, vehicle, boat and field gunner mission types.
Air Categories
Kills per Death
Kills per Sortie
Kills per Time
Hit percentage
Air points
Ground Categories
Damage per Death
Damage per Sortie
Bombing percentage
Ground points
Field captures
-
Dedalos, I caused your confusion - I'm the only one (so far) that mentioned manned ack.
And I mentioned it because here I am wit me widdle gun, blasting away at anything and everything that I might even remotely have a chance at hitting and probably a whole bunch that I don't - and then I'm awarded a kill.
Did I hit something, or did Wild Bill Kelso auger it in, and I happened to be the closest by?
I never know....
but if the ackweenies got their fair share of credit, then I would know just how poorly I do.
-
How about ack weenies actually dying when their position is
destroyed rather than "landing" as well.
-
There is nothing more satisfying than having no ammo and flying your opponent(s) into the ground ... I will take those proxy kills anyday.
And to reiterate what Dedalos said ...
If in a field/ship gun and you hit an aircraft and it goes down before anyone in a plane hits it ... the field/ship gunner gets the kill ... no proxy awarded at all to planes in the area.
If in a field/ship gun and you hit an aircraft and as it goes down, someone in a plane hits it ... the field/ship gunner will most likely get the kill and the person in the plane will get the assist. The outcome here would be the same as someone "kill stealing" ... again ... no proxy awarded at all to planes in the area..
So really ... what's the problem ?
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
There is nothing more satisfying than having no ammo and flying your opponent(s) into the ground ... I will take those proxy kills anyday.
I was wondering if anyone else felt that way. I simply LOVE suckering a high E attacker into the ground.
-
After reading and practicing Zazens Osti/Field gun info, manning an ack gun is darn fun.
Usually it's killing vulchers (nttiawwt) or someone trying to bomb your osti so it's a hoot. I think auto ack is the issue here.
If auto ack kills a plane that is otherwise untouched, should anyone get the kill? No big deal to me, but might fall under "house keeping" changes.
-
Originally posted by Lusche
You are wrong. They are kills just like any other for K/D purposes. They just don't give you perk points.
Proxies do not count for rank or points! You land them, they are recorded as kills, but do not affect rank score or perk points!
-
Originally posted by Lusche
Wrong.
The kills that do not count for K/D purposes are GV kills in fighter mode. Proxies do.
When I got a proxy kill on BaldEagl yesterday (he augered), that kill did improve my K/D stat.
Did you see my wings snap before the auger? That's only the second time I've ever snapped off the wings in a Spit because I was going too fast but when you pulled up and I went to follow it was evidently too much for them.
-
Originally posted by SkyRock
Proxies do not count for rank or points! You land them, they are recorded as kills, but do not affect rank score or perk points!
You're wrong Skyrock. As long as they are added to your K/D and K/S they count in your rank and they are, in fact, added to those stats.
The only time kills (in a fighter) don't count toward rank is if they are ground kills in fighter mode or kills in a chute. Kills of any sort in bombers don't count toward rank. Those kills are still added to expanded kill stats but on your score page under the kills link at the bottom of the page they are listed as "kills not counted toward rank".
-
To the original poster.....
Scenario 1: You're flying around and ack hits enemy planes, who then crash into ground. You're credited with a kill.
Scenario 2: You're flying around, and through your skill send several leathal salvo's of lead into an attacking aircraft tearing off several pieces, ailerons, left elevator...maybe hit the engine. Bastage dives into ack, who plasters him and he explodes. Ack gets credit for kill.
Which would you rather have?
Personally, i'd rather get a few gimmes cause I was helping to defend a base, than get robbed of my hard work, ammo, and time because someone didn't want ME to get credit for the kill and suicided into the Ack.
-
Ack is good.
If i up from a field and 2-3 enemies are hovering over it at 5-10k you bet ill use ack for what its worth. Im not gonna go out of ack and give them a fair chanse at a cheap kill.
When i attack a base ill let them get out of ack, and not out of kindness or respect, but out of fear of the ack.
Ack is there for a reason and it works both ways :)
-
"Sparrow" is spelled with two "r's."
-
Originally posted by BaldEagl
You're wrong Skyrock. As long as they are added to your K/D and K/S they count in your rank and they are, in fact, added to those stats.
The only time kills (in a fighter) don't count toward rank is if they are ground kills in fighter mode or kills in a chute. Kills of any sort in bombers don't count toward rank. Those kills are still added to expanded kill stats but on your score page under the kills link at the bottom of the page they are listed as "kills not counted toward rank".
I do not believe this and would have to be shown proof, sorry. I am certain this was not always so, if you happen to be right. You could land proxies but they would not show up as kills on your stats pages.
-
Originally posted by SkyRock
Proxies do not count for rank or points! You land them, they are recorded as kills, but do not affect rank score or perk points!
It does not affect perk points. It does not affect rank score points. It is however, a valid kill, it is recorded and it is relevant to your fighter score K/D, unless the proxie kill is a GV.
Yesterday a Spit 16 augered. Today a A6M2 was torn up by base ack. In both cases I never fired a shot at them. In both cases my K/D went up. I checked my score/stat immediately after I landed.
But I think we could drag this discussion ad infititum unless
A) You start to belive me ;)
B) HTC official statement clears situation or
C) I find someone to do a small test
-
Originally posted by SkyRock
I do not believe this and would have to be shown proof, sorry. I am certain this was not always so, if you happen to be right. You could land proxies but they would not show up as kills on your stats pages.
If I see you up one night I'll holler. I'll give you a free proxie just to prove it to you but you'll have to check your K/D and K/S immediately before and after. As long as those stats change the rank for them changes and thus your overall rank for the catagory.
-
Originally posted by SkyRock
Proxies do not count for rank or points! You land them, they are recorded as kills, but do not affect rank score or perk points!
Given they affect your K/D+1, and given that is a factor in rank, how can they NOT affect rank in some way?
-
I just did a test in EW arena.
Duk190 received a free kill, I bailed when he got close to me.
His kill was announced at landing: "Duk190 has landed 2 victories" (he had shot down one other F4F, no other planes).
On score page, his fighter kill tally went from 225 to 227. His K/D changed accordingly.So did his expanded stats, changed from 237 to 239 kills.
So proxy kills DO count for K/D.
-
Originally posted by Lusche
I just did a test in EW arena.
Duk190 received a free kill, I bailed when he got close to me.
His kill was announced at landing: "Duk190 has landed 2 victories" (he had shot down one other F4F, no other planes).
On score page, his fighter kill tally went from 225 to 227. His K/D changed accordingly.So did his expanded stats, changed from 237 to 239 kills.
So proxy kills DO count for K/D.
Yes, this shouldn't be a debate anymore....and, in fact, I believe they contribute to rank, since they contribute to K/D+1
-
Originally posted by TalonX
Given they affect your K/D+1, and given that is a factor in rank, how can they NOT affect rank in some way?
Maybe you can help, Talon, do you remember them counting back in the day? I don't!
-
Originally posted by SkyRock
Maybe you can help, Talon, do you remember them counting back in the day? I don't!
Well they count at least since Tour 70. That's when I started to figure out how this whole scoring thing works...
-
Originally posted by Lusche
Well they count at least since Tour 70. That's when I started to figure out how this whole scoring thing works...
I understand that you guys are seeing this, and I will go with this, just wondering did they count like this always?
-
Originally posted by SkyRock
I understand that you guys are seeing this, and I will go with this, just wondering did they count like this always?
as far back as i can remember SkyRock
-
When I first started, they did NOT count-- and I remember things exactly as Skyrock remembers them. I also remember (way back when)specifically checking the exact same way as Lusche did -- and finding the opposite result, that the proxy did not count on score but did count on stat.
-
Originally posted by Simaril
When I first started, they did NOT count-- and I remember things exactly as Skyrock remembers them. I also remember (way back when)specifically checking the exact same way as Lusche did -- and finding the opposite result, that the proxy did not count on score but did count on stat.
That is exactly what I remember back when I was #'s dude and checked score constantly.
-
Originally posted by SkyRock
That is exactly what I remember back when I was #'s dude and checked score constantly.
If there is still any doubt, I have not flown a "fighter" sortie at all this tour. It shouldn't be too hard to find an out-of-the-way place in the EW arena to quickly and diffinitively test this. If someone augers near me and gives me a proxy fighter kill, it will either give me a fighter K/D rank of some kind, or I will continue to show a 0 K/D ratio. Any takers, please PM me.
<< EDIT >>
I went to the EW arena and found Kilz. He agreed to auger next to my Hurri I. I now have one proxy kill in a fighter. You can confirm it was a proxy by my hit % which is still showing zero.
The proxy kill is already showing on my scores page. When ranks recalculate tomorrow, we will be able to see if it is better than the current "unranked" 5103 level.
-
Originally posted by E25280
If there is still any doubt, I have not flown a "fighter" sortie at all this tour. It shouldn't be too hard to find an out-of-the-way place in the EW arena to quickly and diffinitively test this. If someone augers near me and gives me a proxy fighter kill, it will either give me a fighter K/D rank of some kind, or I will continue to show a 0 K/D ratio. Any takers, please PM me.
<< EDIT >>
I went to the EW arena and found Kilz. He agreed to auger next to my Hurri I. I now have one proxy kill in a fighter. You can confirm it was a proxy by my hit % which is still showing zero.
The proxy kill is already showing on my scores page. When ranks recalculate tomorrow, we will be able to see if it is better than the current "unranked" 5103 level.
great! Even though I'm already convinced that it will show by all the score dweebs telling me it is!:D
-
Originally posted by SkyRock
great! Even though I'm already convinced that it will show by all the score dweebs telling me it is!:D
Almost forgot about this . . .
I checked my score, and my fighter rank moved up from the rock-bottom 5103 to a merely abysmal 2499 off of my single proxy kill. :D
I know you (and others) were already convinced, but it never hurts to back what we already know with hard data . . . keeps us from "knowing" things that just aren't true.
-
Hi all,
First, thank you all for your feedback. Secondly, I am afraid we went a bit off topic over here...
It turned out in a score analisys thread, instead debating if a proxy kill is a good thing or not and if automatic ack should or should not be counted separately.
Proxies:
I understand that luring a oposing aircraft into lawndarting or augering is a nice thing! I agree on that! But it is impossible to know when you do that intencionally or it happened by chance...So, I would not count it as a kill for anyone, only as a death for the auguring pilot.
But it would count as a kill to anyone, who had put 1 .303 round into it...damage or no damage...
Ack Weenies
I'm talking about automatic ack, not manned ack. If an auto ack kills a player, kill should be awarded to "Ack", not to the closest player around. Kill goes to who damaged the most, assist for the next ones...
Cheers,
Oh, and TEShaw, my callsign comes from other games, with a six (6) caracter limit, so I had to let an "r" fall...My english spelling is as correct as possible for a portuguese. Still, find it a bit strange that all your contribution to this thread was as spell-checker...Are you a net bot or something?
-
Originally posted by sparow
Hi all,
Oh, and TEShaw, my callsign comes from other games, with a six (6) caracter limit, so I had to let an "r" fall...My english spelling is as correct as possible for a portuguese. Still, find it a bit strange that all your contribution to this thread was as spell-checker...Are you a net bot or something?
Maria Albertina, como foste nessa de chamar Vanessa à tua menina.
:furious
http://www.music-codes.org/humanos_maria_albertina_high_quality_video2031249.html
:rofl
http://www.youtube.com/v/V4gPcp2b9wU
-
Castedo,
Could not understand your comment. Does it have a point or is it a net bot kind of contribution also?
Cya,