Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: sparow on August 15, 2007, 01:25:39 PM
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Hi chaps,
I am a lousy shot in general, but a total loss when shooting a cruiser's guns...
Couldn't be added some kind of aiming assistance to the gunners by means of adding a range finder of some sort?
Cheers,
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#4
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Bosco,
I say, you read all my posts? :confused: :aok
Thank you!
Bring the Italian airforce, can't wait to shoot down Sparvieros in MED terrain...
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Originally posted by Bosco123
#4
BTW, this request makes sence unlike other 3. Not new, of course.
sparow, try to use this link more often: http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/search.php?s=
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Hi Oleg,
Thank you for your reply. In fact, none of these ideas is new, I have done a search and still have a few treads of mine hanging there in the limbo...
But I avoid to bring back old treads back, and I believe that in every new approach, something new will come along...
This wishlist forum is all about this: ideas, ideas, ideas...Crazy things, not so crazy things, sometimes a good idea...
If we wnat a better game, we must keep our mind - and the BB - open...Even if, sometimes, we just laught at the things we see posted.
There's a lot to be done in AH. Gladly. If it stops, it dies.
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I have only seen that you have made all ship comments why don't you just make a whole thing on what you you want on naval things, am I wrong?
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Originally posted by Bosco123
I have only seen that you have made all ship comments why don't you just make a whole thing on what you you want on naval things, am I wrong?
Didn't you listen to golfer when he said think before you post and make sure you read the whole thread to comprehend what you are wring about?
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Originally posted by Husky01
Didn't you listen to golfer when he said think before you post and make sure you read the whole thread to comprehend what you are wring about?
do the same
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Q W and E
Normal gun mode, land mode and some other thingy
For land mode push Esc and click on the target on the map, gun will automatically put itself in the postition.
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:SPAMMISH THINGY:
sorry
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
Q W and E
Normal gun mode, land mode and some other thingy
For land mode push Esc and click on the target on the map, gun will automatically put itself in the postition.
What he said.
As for hitting ships... its easy, you need a few ranging shots and you should be able to hit on the second or third shot. There are limits to how easy this game should be.
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I've blog'd on this before as well. Warships always carried range-finders for their big guns. Larger vessels (cruisers/battlecruisers/battleships) usually had on RF in each main gun turret, as well as gun-director towers with RFs in them. The ones in the turrets would allow for each turret to find the range on it's own if necessary. The ones placed high above the waterline in the gun-director towers could see much farther, and fed range to multiple turrets. An optical range finder looks a bit like looking through binoculars. You'd turn a dial, and when the two images (one from each eyepiece) came simultaniously into focus you'd read the range off the dial. The images in the left and right eyepiece came from lenses that were place as far apart as practical. This lateral separation improved the accuracy of the range estimate. The optics would, I think, be fairly simple to model.
I would like to see the guns of ships slaved to gun-director positions, such that one player could control multiple turrents. A cruiser for example would have four gun-director positions: Forward main battery, aft main battery, port secondary battery (would include the forward 5-inchers), and starboard secondary battery (would include aft 5-inchers). In the event that a gun-director position is disabled by enemy action, the player would be forced to use on of the in-turret RFs, thereby reducing his/her effective sighting distance.
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Sabre,
It's a wonderful idea and - at least to me - seems quite easy to implement. It would bring naval gunnery to a superior level.
I think it might also be applied to shore batteries, aswell. And 88's, one day.
Looks brilliant, thank you all for your contribution.
Cheers
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I used to be in the Navy as a FC (Fire Control-man) and the system that we have now is quite good. 3-4 ranging shots and I can adjust for range and drift while using the "E" Sea mode. I can even get ships down from 22k. The technique is simple.
1. Engage Sea Mode, by pressing .
2. Zoom in to max magnification.
3. Slew gun to target.
4. Place mouse pointer over a feature of the target (mast, bridge, funnel, ect.).
5. Elevate guns to estimated range.
6. Keep pointer over target, by slewing gun to compensate for target drift,and fire.
7. While slewing to keep pointer over selected target, watch for the fall of your shot. The splash is where you need to move your mouse pointer.
8. Adjust for relative drift of your shot, by slewing the guns to make the mouse pointer rest over the target feature you originally picked.
9. Fire again. Now comes the ranging phase. Watch where the splash happens, if in front of the target add 1-2000 to the range, if the splash is behind decrease range.
The trick here is the transition. When the last shot was say short, and this one splashed behind the target, you have bracketed the target. It is now a mater of fine tuning the range. Make adjustments at 500, 200, 100, and finally 50. It is highly unlikely that you will be on exactly parallel courses, so some fiddling with the range when your shots start to drift is going to happen. Just keep the amount of range drift in mind with each shot, and every shot will hit home.
This procedure is how guns have been laid since the age of sail. It works pretty good. If other turrets are manned the range can be quickly deduced by several means but only with each gunner taking turns firing so that no one gets confused by the others fall of shot, and constant communication as to the range each is firing at.
"A Turret 15.6k, short."
"B Turret 16.9k, short."
"C Turret 18.1k, LONG!"
There you go, all three of you have just narrowed down the range to a band 1.2k wide. If you were alone it would have taken you three shots to figure out that range band.
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Hi Iron_Cross!
Copied, pasted and printed! Thank you Sir, ! That should do the trick for me!
But I still would find neat to have those strange binoculars around, lol!
Thank you and all others for your contributions,
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Originally posted by Iron_Cross
I used to be in the Navy as a FC (Fire Control-man) and the system that we have now is quite good. 3-4 ranging shots and I can adjust for range and drift while using the "E" Sea mode. I can even get ships down from 22k. The technique is simple.
1. Engage Sea Mode, by pressing .
2. Zoom in to max magnification.
3. Slew gun to target.
4. Place mouse pointer over a feature of the target (mast, bridge, funnel, ect.).
5. Elevate guns to estimated range.
6. Keep pointer over target, by slewing gun to compensate for target drift,and fire.
7. While slewing to keep pointer over selected target, watch for the fall of your shot. The splash is where you need to move your mouse pointer.
8. Adjust for relative drift of your shot, by slewing the guns to make the mouse pointer rest over the target feature you originally picked.
9. Fire again. Now comes the ranging phase. Watch where the splash happens, if in front of the target add 1-2000 to the range, if the splash is behind decrease range.
The trick here is the transition. When the last shot was say short, and this one splashed behind the target, you have bracketed the target. It is now a mater of fine tuning the range. Make adjustments at 500, 200, 100, and finally 50. It is highly unlikely that you will be on exactly parallel courses, so some fiddling with the range when your shots start to drift is going to happen. Just keep the amount of range drift in mind with each shot, and every shot will hit home.
This procedure is how guns have been laid since the age of sail. It works pretty good. If other turrets are manned the range can be quickly deduced by several means but only with each gunner taking turns firing so that no one gets confused by the others fall of shot, and constant communication as to the range each is firing at.
"A Turret 15.6k, short."
"B Turret 16.9k, short."
"C Turret 18.1k, LONG!"
There you go, all three of you have just narrowed down the range to a band 1.2k wide. If you were alone it would have taken you three shots to figure out that range band.
Clever, I knew youd put your time in the Navy to good use! lol
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:huh
Don't you know that Aces High Boot Camp is government funded? How else could we have so many aces? It takes practice... :D
Kidding,
Cheers
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Iron_Cross, how do the different AH gunnery modes differ?
I usually use the method you suggest when firing tank guns or naval arty, but have a lot of trouble getting the range when either myself or the target (or both) are moving. I'm just not familiar with what sea mode does different from normal mode or land mode. Thanks.
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Repeat post...sorry.
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Land mode, puts your shot on a specific location. However the ship moves all your rounds will hit a very small zone. It calculates ship movement and range to the ground target and adjusts accordingly. However due to limitations a turret cannot point to certain areas that are blocked by the superstructure of your ship, but will pick up again when the gun turret can bear on the target location.
Sea Mode, is different. It keeps a constant bearing and range, like a bomber dropping bombs
This is useful in several ways when attacking seaborne targets. First since both ships are traveling the same speed this makes getting a fire control solution that much easier. If a target is traveling the same speed and on a parallel course it will not change range and will not change aspect (it won't drift left or right as you view it) basically it will stay still in the water relative to you. Since it is a virtual fluke that an enemy would be on a parallel course there will be some drift in both range and aspect, but unless you are on widely divergent courses you have a general idea as to where your shot will end up. As the angle of course divergence approaches zero, the change in range rate and aspect rate approaches zero as well. (IE if the course diverges 3 degrees the target may drift only 30-40 meters, but if it is 70 degrees divergent the target will drift maybe 600-700 meters.)
What you are doing, with the method as I outlined above, is taking out one of the two variables, in this case the aspect rate of change, that will spoil your shot. A third variable, speed is not a factor as all task-groups travel at a constant speed. Range rate of change is what you are correcting for, and that is a heck of a lot easier to compensate for.
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
Clever, I knew youd put your time in the Navy to good use! lol
Actually once I got out of FC school, I pretty much swept and moped floors. Talk about a letdown. Here I was trained to trouble shoot faults in computer logic circuits, radar systems, and video displays, and they put a broom in my hand rather than a multi-meter. The new guy tends to get the scut jobs. That is just stuff I remembered from 20 years ago. It also works for tank guns as well.
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Thanks, Iron_Cross. I thought it was something like that. So in land-mode, you click on the map to get range and bearing, train the gun out to those numbers, and hit the button for land mode, then the turret will remain trained on that spot on the map without player input. Do I have that right? Then, you just make minor adjustments in aszmuth and elevation to zero in on the target.
I'm still a little confused by Sea-mode. You can keep a constant range by simply not touching the elevation. You don't need sea-mode for that. A mode that keeps the gun trained out on a set bearing could be useful, though. It sounds like sea-mode is land-mode without the automatic range adjustment.
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Originally posted by Sabre
Thanks, Iron_Cross. I thought it was something like that. So in land-mode, you click on the map to get range and bearing, train the gun out to those numbers, and hit the button for land mode, then the turret will remain trained on that spot on the map without player input. Do I have that right? Then, you just make minor adjustments in aszmuth and elevation to zero in on the target.
I'm still a little confused by Sea-mode. You can keep a constant range by simply not touching the elevation. You don't need sea-mode for that. A mode that keeps the gun trained out on a set bearing could be useful, though. It sounds like sea-mode is land-mode without the automatic range adjustment.
Think of it like this.
Land mode is for when ship moves target doesn't. Sea mode is for when ship moves, so does target you are shooting at.
In Land mode, you want to leave the guns pointed at the same point on the map. If Ship moves 500 feet north, round still impacts same spot.
In Sea mode you want to leave the guns pointed so the round will land at the same distance away from the ship it did the last shot relative to ship movement. Ship moves 500 feet north, round will impact 500 feet north of last impact point.
At least I THINK that's what the difference is.
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Originally posted by Sabre
Thanks, Iron_Cross. I thought it was something like that. So in land-mode, you click on the map to get range and bearing, train the gun out to those numbers, and hit the button for land mode, then the turret will remain trained on that spot on the map without player input. Do I have that right? Then, you just make minor adjustments in aszmuth and elevation to zero in on the target.
I'm still a little confused by Sea-mode. You can keep a constant range by simply not touching the elevation. You don't need sea-mode for that. A mode that keeps the gun trained out on a set bearing could be useful, though. It sounds like sea-mode is land-mode without the automatic range adjustment.
In Sea Mode you basically have direct control of the turret. Land Mode has a rudimentary fire control computer that takes several variables like; course, speed, range, time of flight, and crunches the numbers so that the rounds impact virtually the same spot on the map. Land Mode will adjust for your movement. It will slew the turret to compensate for relative drift in aspect, as well as range.
Let me give you an example.
Two cars are traveling North, at 60 Km/H. One could easily throw a tennis ball from one car, and easily hit the other car. To each driver/observer the other car is quite still. (Sea Mode)
Now someone wants to throw a tennis ball at a stationary target on the side of the road. If they throw the tennis ball directly at the target as they pass perpendicular they will miss. The tennis ball is also traveling North at 60Km/H, so it will miss by the same distance that the car traveled while the tennis ball was in flight.
If you know the speed your traveling at, and the time of flight for the tennis ball, you can throw the ball at a point in front of the target so that it hits the target when it reaches the end of its flight. (Land Mode)