Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: LLv34_Camouflage on June 17, 2001, 09:06:00 PM
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Hi guys.
I dont know if tonight is a "regular" night numbers-wise. In any case, I had no idea that the situation could be this bad during the US prime time. I usually play during european prime-time and the sides are mostly quite balanced, with about even numbers in each three countries on a regular night.
Its 4am Central European Time, not exactly my usual AH playing time. Its the prime time in north america, I suppose?
I just logged in for a quick sortie. I was greeted with this sight:
(http://www.pp.htv.fi/vpitkane/ah_jun17.gif)
There's more bish than knits and krooks combined. Is it like this every night in the MA?
Camo
[ 06-17-2001: Message edited by: LLv34_Camouflage ]
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yes everynight camo for what ripsnort said was going on for 6 or 7 weeks...........
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Yep, every time I log on for about 3 months now. It might be just me, but I think it has something to do with the fact that now there is a reward for winning the war (perk points) combined with the fact that you will naturaly rack up more kills (and points) if your side outnumbers the enemy 2+ to 1. So of course no one wants to be on the side without the numbers for very long. So to think that we will fix this on our own goes against human nature.
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We need a historical arena, where unfair sides would be proper :)
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I would like to see the reset figures for the last month? can we do that??
[ 06-17-2001: Message edited by: Greg 'wmutt' Cook ]
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How about a 2 way contest with country 'enlistment' system?
At the first log-on of each new tour, you might be asked which country you would enlist to. Squads may enlist as total, individuals like me would enlist as individuals.
And when enlisting, the current number of participants in each side would be shown, and a "recommendation"(nothing forceful though..) would pop-up which side you would be better off, consdering the numbers. This would especially come in handy for squads with large numbers. If a large numbered squad enters one side, some more individuals and lesser numbered squads would be recommended to join the other side.
I know, it's a dumb idea, but the destruction of numbers balance itself is a bad idea to. We might at least give it a try?
:o
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One reason why I prefer that other game over AH.
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Its frustrating to fly when your country is badly outnumbered, couse every spit im going to kill gets always atleast one girly p51 or la7 to help him in prime time. Its not either unusual sight to have 4 n1k:S and spits on your 6, chasing you to bitter end, even that im faster and higher E. 1vs1 happens rarely nowdays.
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Wow guys, I had no idea. No wonder some of you have been complaining about the numbers. ;)
Staga and Tuomio, do you play during the morning hours? I usually don't, this was the first time I've seen numbers like this. I don't recall ever seeing numbers this lopsided...
I hope HTC will come up with a solution to even the numbers. Since the player community obviously cant do it. While it might seem like the present situation offers are target rich environment for the knits and krooks, it quickly becomes frustrating. :(
Camo
[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: LLv34_Camouflage ]
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I had a lot of fun last night. Every flight was a multi-kill experience. Good opponants and quick combat
I fly Knight.
- Westy
p.s. I can go right now to that 'other place's" boards and five no less than five topics about unfair sides and imbalances. Stag, you're a comedienne! ;)
[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
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Westy you like going personal don't you?
mmkay...
There's one difference between us:
I play both of those games when you are whining about how much wwiiol needs RAM and cpu-power from computer.
Shut up and get yourself faster comp/more memory so you can see what "that other game" can offer to you.
If you're unable to do that quit your squeaking about that.
Tetris runs fine in 486.
:p
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I'm not the one squeaking Staga. That is quite evident in my post. If you see what I wrote as squeaking then you have your use of words and expressions all screwd up.
As for that "other place"? I have it on my PC. It's a "yawner", a big flop so far. It completely fails to run to my satisfaction and my PC easily meets the "recommended system" specs. I will not pay for a product fostered as being "done" and delivered with extremely dubious markteting hype. Here is yet another review that echos' my sentiments pretty well:
http://members.home.net/mefletcher/ww2onlinereview.html (http://members.home.net/mefletcher/ww2onlinereview.html)
The 109 and other aircrafts fm are arcade like.
If you choose to toss money to make WW2O run on your system then that is your choice. As foolish as it may be. I'm also pretty sure that if the Polish had continued throwing more horse mounted troops at the German invaders in 1939 that they could they could have stopped the German advance sooner or later also.
-Westy
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Originally posted by Westy MOL:
I'm also pretty sure that if the Polish had continued throwing more horse mounted troops at the German invaders in 1939 that they could they could have stopped the German advance sooner or later also.
-Westy
Do I need to react or not ... I'm not sure ...
I don't understand the purpose of your sentence ,anyway for my point of view it hurt as it remind me of some of my familly member I didn't ever have a single chance to meet.
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Evolution stopped giving people thick skin?
-SW
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Straffo, the less than subtle point being that some things cannot be over come by throwing more things at it. Sure, if enough resources are tossed at a problem the problem mnay be over come but there is an easier and more ligical way of geting to the end result. The logivcal and easier way for WW2O to work is of they code and program it to. It was not, nor meant to be, a slur or derogatory comment towards the Polish at all.
As for Polish Cavalry charges during WWII? It's saddening to think of the loss of lives from the futility of such attacks. Cavalry versus tanks and armoured vehicles :( It took took enourmous courage and conviction to charge the enemy knowing that death was certain.
-Westy
[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
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Of the 29 knits that were one.. only 3 of them weren't flying out of A5.
No matter if strat or furball dweeb... you gotta wonder what kind of fun 29 people flying out of the same base are going to have.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Westy MOL:
It was not, nor meant to be, a slur or derogatory comment towards the Polish at all.
I know you enought to believe it was not the aim of your sentence.
But sometime due to translation losses I'm not sure of the real meaning that why after reading reading AH BBS for 1 year + I try to thing before reacting (not allways with success :D)
Btw about WWII ol when the code will be polished it would be a great temptation for me because several sentimental reasons and afterall I'm french :)
concerning number I've no opinion as I'mů online at a time where the MA is quite balanced (in general it' 30/35 for each country)
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Of the 29 knits that were one.. only 3 of them weren't flying out of A5.
No matter if strat or furball dweeb... you gotta wonder what kind of fun 29 people flying out of the same base are going to have.
AKDejaVu
I guess I shouldnt be supprised that the enemy noticed that most of the knights where flying at a5 against the rooks as 50+ Bish just clobbered the other 5 of us in the south.
That decision left us in an untenable position that knights observed as they logged an and they promptly changed sides or logged off. So we never got the numbers to do any thing credible.
I was forced to fly unescorted Lanc missions into bases that had a 3 fighter cap above me...Thats not fun for too long.
The bish had mega numbers last night but the knights really added to their problems(maybe even created them) by being so stupid about field 5.
The bish allready had the numbers. But when you factor in 40 rook-bish at 5 you see how weakly defended the knight homeland was.
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you also gota consider that right before that pic was taked about 5 nits had switched to the bish. i know the numbers are not really any better at with 77 bish. but there are alot of people that just seem to swtich to the people with the highest numbers.
Trell
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Just stop giving perk points to the winners.
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Pongo,
When I logged on yesterday, the bish were basically down to their main island and had A-10. The numbers were pretty even, but both rooks and knits had been hitting bish pretty hard and the knits had managed to push all the way up to A5. That put them head to head against the Rooks at A4 and they finally started the battle of the two islands.
A7 was captured and we moved to A8. The numbers were starting to skew as I noticed that there were fewer and fewer defenders down south. The solid red bars at A4 and A5 never disappeared.
I logged off after we captured A8. If its any consolation, the numbers aren't nearly the advantage that they seem. At any given time... at least 15 bish are chasing 1 con down on the deck in hopes of landing a hit on him before someone else gets the kill. 5 or 6 of them usually survive.
The main point is.. bish didn't get numbers then go on a roll. They got numbers after the roll started. I've seen this trend quite a bit lately and it kinda disturbs me. Either people don't want to play when there's a disadvantage... or they switch teams instead of logging off.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
<SNIP> A7 was captured and we moved to A8. The numbers were starting to skew as I noticed that there were fewer and fewer defenders down south. The solid red bars at A4 and A5 never disappeared. <SNIP>
AKDejaVu
Hence my rant in another thread.
That other thread is the first time I've ever said a thing about strat, I don't engage in rant's on ch.1, nor do I try to "take charge" as I too also firmly believe what has been noted in that other thread, that it's each players $ to spend anyway they want.
I was just extremely frustrated by the situation as the BISHES seized field after field with little to no response from my countrymen.
I really believe that the numbers had little to do with us being pushed back, had we defended or even sent BUFFS to wipe out the enemas surrounding field barracks early on we could have stopped the bishes.
Oh Well enough of that strat crap, it gives me a headache :)
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So looks to me like the bish not only had about 30 guys over 5 but also had the flyers to put another 30 againtst the rooks alll the while 20 more bish are wiping the knight clear off their FEET.
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You forgot the last 9 hobodog :). When I logged on there were 89 bish, 29 knights and 34 rooks.
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Actually Hobodog.. I don't think there were many bish at 5 or 4. If you'll notice.. A4 was a rook base. Its the main reason the Bish were able to roll north as well as down south. We had their port up north and I don't believe I've ever seen that happen before.
That said... those rooks and knits at A4 and A5 must have been having a hell of a time.
AKDejaVu
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Once again,switches of country should be limited to 2-4 times per tour.This would limit the reset perk point chasers and others who want easy vulching kills somewhat.It seems to happen quite a bit now.The country close to winning reset gets more and more people to the detriment of the game.I have been on both sides of this issue.
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Sunday night is the Damned's squad night - that's when we have 20 to 40 people online. (We have 63 members in our squad.)
There were a few other squads on last night -not sure if they are originally Bishland - but they were conducting missions and calling for fill ins.
I was in on the missions that took 7, 8, and 27 all within 40 minutes. It didn't take large numbers to do this, was only about 12 of us - what can I say, we were well co-ordinated.
Then a squad organized a 30, 29 mission - again a well co-cordinated effort.
Mean while the Damned organized a city kill, a strike on 34, and then finally a strike on HQ.
If people are hopping countries just to be apart of a reset - well that would be sad for them - it remarks on their lack of character and skill - but I don't think there's an overall conspiracy to do so.
Nexus
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Originally posted by Greg 'wmutt' Cook:
Yep, every time I log on for about 3 months now. It might be just me, but I think it has something to do with the fact that now there is a reward for winning the war (perk points) combined with the fact that you will naturaly rack up more kills (and points) if your side outnumbers the enemy 2+ to 1
Actually, you won't...you'll constantly fly to furballs to find that the cons evaporate by the time you get there and you have nothing to do...and not enough fuel, normally, to find another one.
I hate it when Bish has massive superiority. I get a lot more kills when they don't.
But I'd never switch sides. In 3-4 years of Warbirds (old) and a year of AH, I spent a year or so Red, went Gold when my squad left Red, and then in AH I've been a Bish the whole time.
Actually, Bish has spent much of the last couple weeks with SEEMING numerical superiority, but actually not accomplishing much.
This is because in the last few weeks Bish is now seemingly overrun with newbies who spend all of their time gunning bombers for each other (said bombers rarely hitting anything) or, even more pointlessly, gunning PT Boats. So the REAL effective Bish numbers are actually far less.
I'm curious if this is going on in other countries, if they've had as much of a massive newbie influx, etc.
[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: Torgo ]
[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: Torgo ]
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Actually, Bish has spent much of the last couple weeks with SEEMING numerical superiority, but actually not accomplishing much.
"Seeming" numerical superiority? Seeming? We *are* talking about the MA, are we not?
Camo's pic was last night, here's tonight:
(http://modena.intergate.ca/personal/cwharton/sbm/rumble2001/bishnumbers.jpg)
You think tomorrow night and the next night after are gonna look any different?
It would "seem" to *me* that we're actually talking about a hell of an imbalance here. Honestly, I haven't seen this great a discrepancy on such a *continual* basis since beta - when there were only 60 guys flyin' and it was mostly Rook vs Bishops.
Sorry but I gotta completely dismiss the excuses regarding the fact that they're "seemingly overrun" by innefective newbies gunning in buffs piloted by other newbies who can't hit their targets, or driving PT boats etc. Personally I have never been able to keep track of what several dozen of my countrymates are up to... and I don't think it's even that accurate a guess.
If they're so innefective, how can you explain the number of captured Bish fields?
Look again at Camo's pic... And tonight - as of this post:
Bish 39 fields
Rooks 20 fields
Knit 4 fields
So I don't know how you draw that conclusion, but this certainly aint a result of some seemingly innefective newbie buff gunners.
And to those who like to toss out the 'ol "target rich" thing... well... target rich my arse. Unless it's a rich experience tracking 4 cons while the 5th or 6th swoops in to light ya up. This is of course assuming you can get off the runway in the first place.
So yay... Knits (the poor bastards) are *once again* stuck on their home island with little choice but to get vulched against the hord determined for the reset. I don't blame those guys for gettin' fed up.
I really really don't think there's a way to look at this without just accepting the fact that there is a problem here. Hell, I might even suggest to the squaddies that we go Knit (ugh - and not like it would make much difference)... but that just shows ya how bad I think they've got it.
"It's just yer turn in the bucket" is an absurd statement when we're talking about people tryin' to get their 30 bucks worth enjoying this game.
[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: Nash ]
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Nash's post is worth of 5 stars.
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Bravo nash! I've been here since beta 1 and I have just about had all I can take.
Actually considering moving on. I'm not interested in paying $30.00 to sit in the tower.
All you who are itching to give me advise on how to do this and that, go here, go there, fly this, fly that, keep it to yourself. I've been doing this a long time. Its obvious there is a problem here but we keep throwing out numbnut excuses and chest thumping.
Apache
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All that is needed, in my opinion, is some benefit to flying for the outnumbered side, or some penalty for flying for the larger side.
How about a perk multiplier based on numbers? The more outnumbered your side is, the more perks you get.
In addition, when one side is getting beaten down to a few bases, what about giving them cheaper or free perk planes?
Right now all the benefits in the game revolve around having higher numbers and there is no penalty for that. Unless there are something to motivate folks the opposite way, I don't expect it to change.
Lephturn
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Looks to me like there is 140 people online. I like being able to find a fight.
These uneven numbers complaints are cyclic, as sides and numbers per country change several ways in every tour.
Always have, always will.
Your lucky it ain't a HA, with 70 Tempests heading over the English Channel and 10 109's trying to defend.
It's just yer turn in the bucket" is an absurd statement when we're talking about people tryin' to get their 30 bucks worth enjoying this game. Oh come on. You been reading to much hype on this bbs, which is surprising as hell to me. If someone can't enjoy AH that is into WWII flight simulation in a massivley smooth multiplayer format... geez.
[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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One thing that is very strange, especially for prime time....
70 is not an unusually high number of players... remember last tour when every country had that many players? Its not like people can't get into the arena... people just aren't.
AKDejaVu
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Creamo I agree that this is a "massively smooth multiplayer format" and everything... and I assure you I've seen all two years of this "bucket" crap on the BBS, but I have never seen it this bad for this long. That's all.
....and FYI if I bought into hype be it here on this bbs or anywhere else... I'd prolly be off playing some *other* sim.
[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Nash ]
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"..and FYI if I bought into hype be it here on this bbs or anywhere else... I'd prolly be off playing some *other* sim."
Ah yes. The place touted as a "two sided, historically realish war." The online Valhalla. Well it would behoove many to try it out. I almost insist. Reality right now is it is a multi-world war and players are tending to log on to the world where their side is doing well. So now instead of one world where there are three sides you have up to seven worlds where it is a gang bang in a two sided war.
-Westy
[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
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Maybe HTC could send another poll to players who have left AH asking what kind of improvements they would like to see in AH.
And also offer some 9,95 deals if they come back ;)
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Perhaps there's a reason beyond gameplay that many people like to fly for Bishops?
Perhaps there could be a reason beyond gameplay why people don't like to fly for the Knights?
I'm not impunging anyone. I've been Bish since Beta. It's a fun place to fly, the folks are pretty relaxed (understatment) and generally no one takes anything to seriously.
Check some of our more famous squad names, like FDB's ;)
Are the Knights somehow making Knightland unattractive to players?
Just a thought.
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Reading it and buying it 2 is diffrent things, you know what Im getting at. I was just crackin on you for adding to the whole deal by mentioning it as if it's gotten so bad, it somehow should ruin the game?
It's just one more thing in a long list people spend so much time and effort worrying about when it's part of the makeup of the game, and trivial in my opinion. As soon as a squad rotates, or the timezone changes where its off peak hours, or a new tour starts and there's new players, it's all going to flip flop. So what's so new 'bout that?
Ive really seen it pretty fair for a real long time, although I admit I never pay a whole lot of attention to it.
What's even more silly, it's probly the own countries fault. If everything isn't perfect and in their favor, people sign in, and immediatley log, or like mentioned before, just plain fight stupid. Instead of using a situation where your outnumbered to try some clever and fun ways of fighting back, they are snapping screen shots, and running to the BBS instead of playing the damn game.
I guess what irks me is people try use this kind of numbers game to in a round about way to condemn the 3 sides war, and HTC's decision to keep it that way. It's as if their historical arena will improve AH so it's finally worthy of their return and oh so important input to the AH crowd.
I think it works well, maybe this just shows the knits have a harder time with being in the hole than the other countries.
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Thought I add numbers online when i get off work this morning. It really means nothing.
Bishits- 25 players 18 bases
Twits- 29 players 11 bases
Rooks- 17 players 34 bases
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WAY TO GO TWITWADS YOU OUTNUMBER THEM!
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Maybe something could be done with the number of eggs to kill a hanger increases with the ratio of imbalance between countries or the number of troops needed increases. Just a couple of thoughts.
BgMAW
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In Warbirds, we had a country numbers problem. Pyro asked a few of the squadrons within the higher numbered countrys to switch their squadrons to the lower numbered countries. Thats the solution, guys, and the honorable thing to do, but if your squadron does not, it just shows the rest of us that you NEED to have numbers to do what you do best...which anyone can do...I challenge some of you higher numbered squadrons flying bish to switch to Knits or Rooks...bet ya can't do what ya did with numbers.... :)
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Hmmmm...
Glad Creamo spelled it out for me. I must just like killing Bishops. :rolleyes:
Kills of Bishops: 133
Kills of Rooks: 53
Zippatuh
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
In Warbirds, we had a country numbers problem. Pyro asked a few of the squadrons within the higher numbered countrys to switch their squadrons to the lower numbered countries. Thats the solution, guys, and the honorable thing to do, but if your squadron does not, it just shows the rest of us that you NEED to have numbers to do what you do best...which anyone can do...I challenge some of you higher numbered squadrons flying bish to switch to Knits or Rooks...bet ya can't do what ya did with numbers.... :)
Betcha you can't eat just one!
Err Betcha we CAN!
-SW
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"Maybe HTC could send another poll to players who have left AH asking what kind of improvements they would like to see in AH. And also offer some 9,95 deals if they come back"
Of course they could do that. But why ask such a small group of people? The implication I take from your post is that the loss of these few players is actually worse than it seems and that AH may be experiencing a lowering of online numbers. It hasn't from what I've seen when online the past couple of weeks.
Do some folks (Staga?) think that a few disgruntled and dissatisfied players actually have some sort of secret knowlege to a better and more fruitful AH? That they, who may have been playing online games for a couple of years inmost cases, know this business better and have more of an idea of what the customers want? That they know more than a team of people (HTC) who've been doing online gaming, as core of the community players, producers and developers, for almost a decade?
Or would thier vision alienate the greater majority to for a smaller gaming environment much more to thier particular taste and liking?
-Westy
[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
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Well they did it earlier didn't they ?
I don't think it was done because they got some free time to spend ? ;)
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Small hint:
Slogan "Bad reputation is better than no reputation at all" doesn't work in Real world. Same goes with AH and players who have left.
You can be sure that unsatisfied customer wouldn't promote your services to other potential customers.
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I don't really care about the players that have already left... they aren't the ones that caused this inballance.
I'm more worried about the players with accounts that just aren't playing... and as a result may be leaving shortly.
This tour started out with some phenominal numbers as a result of the 1.07 release carryover. As of late, its seen 1/3 the action. What do you do to appease a fickle audience?
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
What do you do to appease a fickle audience?
AKDejaVu
You give them a tall glass of Shut the Hell Up! (http://www.mpz.co.uk/cwm/ups/archinto/smile1.gif)
-SW
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It was a serious question wulfie. I don't know that your answer helps much.
AKDejaVu
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Hey...maybe you should take a sip? :D
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Staga, I guess it also depends on the reputation of the person giving something a bad referal. It's a two way street.
Luckily for AH these web boards are wide open to public view, the game comes with free H2H and subscribers can even have a free two week, no obligation trial to see for themselves what AH is like. A heck of alot more than can be said for ANY other online venue out there. WB's? Nope. AW? FA? Again, no. However these programs doesn't cost anything either. WW2O? Hey ;) They have a $40 plus door fee, non refundable in most cases. IMO, anyone who doesn't and yet takes the invalidated opinion of someone else as gospel is spineless and would probably jump off a bridge if they were told it was kewl and thats what all the others do too.
-Westy
[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
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Why would anyone fly for a country that used a dildo for an icon? Guess, as toad said, because it is very "relaxed". Well yeah... I can see how it would be relaxed when you are able to send out 15 bombers and still outnumber the enemy 2 to 1 in fighters.
lazs
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Originally posted by BigGun:
Hey...maybe you should take a sip? :D
I would, but I'm saving the whole glass for you.
(http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/contrib/blackeye/Eyecrazy.gif)
-SW
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Damn I like that Swulfe guy, always amusing & one funny bastard. <S>
BgMAW
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Well, Laz, as I said I've been Bish from day one in the beta. What can I say? I really like a lot of the guys that are/stay Bish. I'm not going to single out a few when there are so many I enjoy joking and playing the game with.
The Bish have had numbers lately but there've been many times in the past 2 years that we spent a week or multiple weeks "in the bucket".
It was still fun being Bish then and flying with those same guys. Generally, the guys I hangout with laugh a lot and don't worry about the legendary Bish inability to cooperate to achieve anything.
When we were down, I don't remember endless pleadings, wailings and gnashing of teeth on the BBS about being in the bucket either. There were some to be sure, but nothing like what I've been seeing in here lately.
Maybe THAT's what I like about Bishland and the people that make up its population. :D
I doubt there is any country that can take as long to capture a field with 10 v 1 odds in their favor as the Bish. :) (My personal belief is that we're all just a bunch of no-strat furballers. If we get our backs to the wall we can organize for maybe 2-4 captures, but as soon as we have a little room, it's back to furballin'. Just MO.)
We have very few "generals" and most missions that get put up rarely generate much interest. That's just life as a Bish. Can it be that people find this attractive?
Now, as I said before, perhaps there should be a little introspection. All of us realize there's no real fundamental difference in the software for any particular country. Flying for one is the same as flying for another in that respect.
So why do more people choose to fly Bish?
It COULD be because they want to fly where the numbers are presently. That's the easy way to blame all the problems on something you can't control.
Or, it COULD be because there's something about Knightland that isn't appealing to a lot of folks. This is the hard way, the unappealing way to look at the problem.
I'll bare my soul here a second (and get flamed for it, of course.) Long ago there was a player shift. Many of the LW squads went to Knights, as was certainly their perogative. This in and of itself really wasn't the problem. However, some of the more famous complainers in the game ended up in K-land because of this.
For me this had a two-fold effect. One, I stayed Bish because it's always fun to shoot down the complainers. :D Two, I certainly didn't want to switch to K-land; for me, the continual complaining degrades the enjoyment I get from the game. Having it on CH1 and CH2 simultaneously would not be an improvement IMO. :)
Sure, things have changed but for me I guess that initial first impression remains.
As I mentioned before, maybe you folks need to see if you can make K-land more attractive to other players somehow.
Attempts to "force" a balance are going to be pretty hard to implement in a way that doesn't tick people off, IMO.
'
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V
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I try my best Bg! I fail miserably at everything in life except being a handsomehunk, so I do what I do best here! (http://www.duhspot.com/users/smiley/s/ups/icis/ices_grins_augen.gif)
See you in the sky, yanking my joystick like I'm having too much fun! (http://www.3dpcgames.com/cwm/s/contrib/blackeye/arcadefreak.gif)
-SW
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Toad,
You have an interesting slant on the current knight situation. I hadn't thought about it that way and you could be on to something. I will say, however, that there are numerous knights that I enjoy flying with, but we do have a section of whiners. More so than the other countries? I don't know, but maybe a little more vocal. :)
I too have been here from the beginning and other than a short stint with the rooks, I have been knight. Was a knight at the start as I recall and we were the whoopin' boys then, lol. I know all about the "turn in the bucket". I was one of the "purple horde" in WB and it went on there too (damn those reds).
It just seems to me that it has lasted a little longer than usual this time, going on 2 month's actually. It may not be as apparent to other countries, but I believe that some who have recently rotated to the knights, are getting a taste of what it is like. Milenko comes to mind. Man he was pissed, and I don't blame him.
Knights have become rather complacent and fight as long as they can until the horde reappears, which is usually around 2130 EDT. :) There is actually no reason for us to be organized any longer because we simply can not combat the numbers.
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The Knits are rutabagas, and I don't see why any other explanation is nessessary why I would not want to be one, for any length of time, regardless of the situation.
Really.
:eek:
[ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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lol, I luv ya creamo, I really do!!
You know the old saying. "Ya are what ya eat"!
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"Ya are what ya eat"!
By that logic... is Animal actually Creamo?
AKDejaVu
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How about,if you are not in a squad,you cannot fly for country with largest numbers.It would promote squad play and play balance...eg.."You Are Unable To Join Country Selected,please try Knights or Rooks".. :)
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By that logic... is Animal actually Creamo?
Analmal is not me...
Animal is a big O.J. supporter, and also unlike me, he likes "token white chicks."
Plus he's stupid, shady, wears plaid pants, and is annoying.
Kinda like a rollerskating rink manager, who sells used cars on the weekend.
Nope.
(holy toejam, I just backflipped out of my super computer chair laughing at my screwdriver induced parody there...fllluurrrrblap! :) )
[ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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toad.... imagine if I had said that about LW guys. I have thot it and know it to be true. Who wants to fly with a bunc of LW guys anyhow? They are not only complainers but boring as well.
You say that you have been bish from day one.. I would suggest you try the rooks if for nothing else, perspective. I have found that most of em seem to be pretty easy natured. I spend a lot of time laughing (or cursing) as a rook but that has to do with being on RW with squaddies. The BK's are the least organized and most fun oriented of any squad I've seen. I have yet to see anything resembling a "mission" except "let's kill those so and so's at____".
lazs
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Laz, not sure what/which post you're referring to with "had said that about LW guys." :) Can't agree or disagree with ya as yet.
Perspective? I think the rooks are probably about the same as the bish. With the old rook squads rotating thru, I haven't seen much difference. I'm sure if those guys hung around, I'd find a few good amigos there too.
It's just who you like flying with I guess. There's about 15-20 particular Bish I really enjoy that seem to fly the times I fly. I'm having fun with them, so I don't really see a need or reason to switch.
AH isn't stagnant for me. I don't get to play as much as I like and when I do I just play. I do what I feel like doing. You can find anything from a 1 v 1 to a massive organzied mission just about anytime if you're willing to search it out. For example, I haven't really buffed in ages. Couple nights ago, that's all I did. Nice change of pace.
How much you enjoy this is really an Internal rather than External experience.
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Originally posted by Toad:
AH isn't stagnant for me. I don't get to play as much as I like and when I do I just play. I do what I feel like doing. You can find anything from a 1 v 1 to a massive organzied mission just about anytime if you're willing to search it out.
How much you enjoy this is really an Internal rather than External experience.
Exact same thing here Toad... I don't really fly as much as I could or would like to, more or less because of choice, not because of the game itself.
When I find myself getting bored doing something, or irritated with something... then I try something new(new plane, new style of flying, a new wingman to fly with.. anything!) and I usually have fun doing it.
For example: Last night was the first time I flew with my squadmate Wabbit in a long time. He was in a P51 and I was in a La5FN... we sat above what must of been 4 or 5 knights or rooks for about 15 minutes zooming towards them, shooting them up, then zooming back up to alt. I got a P47 before I took a La7 head on and went in (though I think I blew off the La7s wing)... 1 kill, and I died... but it was REALLY fun!
-SW
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Some of you just don't seem to get it. Again, last night I log on to AH for a little fun, I hope, and guess what? We have 5 fields, no radar, 30 people, and down to our last island. The bishop hold A17 on our island & are striking A16. What happens? The fekin' rooks strike A11! Yep, logged in disgust. I'm about thru with this.
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Stop Hoggin' the "Bucket" Rip !!!!
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Some of you just don't seem to get it. Again, last night I log on to AH for a little fun, I hope, and guess what? We have 5 fields, no radar, 30 people, and down to our last island. The bishop hold A17 on our island & are striking A16. What happens? The fekin' rooks strike A11!
I was on when this happened Apache. Of course, our radar was up so I know better how much and what happened.
Bish had numbers, but Knits had more on than Rooks. The rooks were busy defending up in the NorthWest and on the main island. I know this because I was there.
Basically, if you read your statement... you seem to be maintaining that once country should have left you alone to focus on double teaming the Bish. I guess I fail to see how this is even remotely a realistic expectation.
Though... eventually the Rooks did leave the knits alone completely and focus only on the Bish. That was when the knits were down to 2 bases and the Bish would have won the war if there was a reset. At that time, the Rooks left the knits alone to focus on regaining territory on the bish... basically prolonging the knits stay in the coffin corner. The current system for resetting really sucks when it gets down to one country only having two bases.
Yep, logged in disgust. I'm about thru with this.
Sorry to hear that. Kinda wish more people would hang around. The main problem isn't that people are all flying Bish.. the main problem is that the knits just aren't flying that much. The numbers are way down.... 35 people during prime time. Rooks had 29 during prime time. Bish had a whopping 70. I just remember this time last month when every country had 70. The problem isn't that everyone went Bish.
AKDejaVu
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Apache, I'm sorry the numbers aren't working out for you guys. I remember times like that, however. (Just not lately ;) )
Had I been in that situation, I might have grabbed 2 buddies and sent a 2 buff/1 goon mission sneaking out to capture a distant base on somebody else's home island. CavemanJack used to be a master at these ops.
It would remove me from the vultchfests, take a long time (giving me time to chill out about numbers), give me time to chat and would suprise the cr*p out of some folks if it worked. If a reset occurred, it would be a bold opening stroke in the new war.
I guess I just enjoy being in the game and associating with a great group of folks.
I've also had great times when outnumbered. It's sometimes fun (if you're in the mood) to just try and up from a capped base. Ask HBlair about A11 the other night. I musta got drilled 6 times but I finally got off and got some kills. I found that satisfying. But Hey, I play for fun, not glory, so I'm easy.
I'll do this, I promise. I'll concentrate on the opposite side with the most numbers when anyone gets to "home island" defense but I'm staying in Bishland.
[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]
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<S> Deja.
Understood about the rooks. I wasn't inferring that we were ganged nor do I care about a double team on the bish, but that the a11 strike was the last nail in the coffin.
It sounds as if you mean leaving us alone with 2 fields is a good thing. Lol, I would rather they just get it over with. At least we can have a little flight time. I guess I bring alot of this on myself. I could TO anyway but, I simply refuse to be vulched. That ain't fun to me. I, however, will be the first to join in in a little vul...er field suppression.
I am curious as to when we all had 70 last tour. This has been going on for the last 2 months for us. Maybe we just log on at different times or something. Oh wait. I must admit. 1 weekend last tour we were about even. Seems that was about, oh, 7 weeks ago :).
Sorry for my inability to explain myself in type. I'm not thru with AH, just the knight situation.
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Hey Toad my friend.
The problem we have been having is, we can't get off the ground to sneak anywhere, hehe. Every stinking field is a smoking hole in the ground.
Some said last night after the you guys took A7, lets go get it back! One of my squad mates said, "hell, we couldn't keep it the first time, what's the use in trying to get it back". Hehe, that was the highlight of my night. :)
Don't misunderstand. I'm not advocating anyone rotate anywhere. I need to do something, whether it be rotate out myself or become a tanker, yeck!!
[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: Apache ]
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<S> Deja
<S> Apache
Understood about the rooks. I wasn't inferring that we were ganged nor do I care about a double team on the bish, but that the a11 strike was the last nail in the coffin.
I understand. But it seems it was more just a case of a bad scene staying bad than anything else. I mean... what were the Rooks supposed to be doing? I know that doesn't sound like much help, but really...
It sounds as if you mean leaving us alone with 2 fields is a good thing.
I didn't mean to give that impression at all. I don't like what happens when one country is down to two bases. I've seen the third country go as far as to help "defend" one of the last two bases just to keep the reset from happening. Things really need to be adjusted in this aspect.
I am curious as to when we all had 70 last tour. This has been going on for the last 2 months for us. Maybe we just log on at different times or something.
I usually fly during primetime Apache. Last tour, bish did not kill everyone with numbers. The AKs were flying Rook and things were pretty even.. especially after the release of 1.07 when numbers went through the roof.
It seems the novelty of the new release is wearing off and its hitting some countries harder than others. Its turning into something of a snowball effect as now people are refusing to play simply because there aren't enough people playing.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Toad:
[QB]Apache, I'm sorry the numbers aren't working out for you guys. I remember times like that, however. (Just not lately ;) )
Sorry , toad, but you've never experienced them for 8 weeks....almost every single stinking night...
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Rip, with a basic 3 on/ 3 off sked, I'm only around about 1/2 of any month. So, not much seems continual to me.
As I said before, maybe it HAS been 8 weeks for you guys. I don't know.
But I think y'all had better try to figure out WHY no one wants to be Knight and work on that rather than working so dang hard to come up with some sort of auto-balance mechanism in the software.
In the software, all sides are the same. Why don't people play as Knight?
Good luck!
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Originally posted by Toad:
In the software, all sides are the same. Why don't people play as Knight?
It seems to me, just my opinion, that the numbers imbalance has gotten worse since the implementation of the perk system. Kinda ironic since the perk system was touted as a balancing mechanism. Might have something to do with it, just a thought.
BgMAW
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Possible reasons why no one else wants to be a Knight. (I'm a Knight, obvious since I'm a Flying Mongrel!)
- If you fly Knight, you can't hit the silk because FDB is always right there to shoot at ya! ;)
- Uhmm, our sheep aren't as good as the other sheep?
- Knit beer isn't as good as Bish and Rook beer?
- The glare off of Rip's head is distracting?
- You might have me watching your 6! (Knit says "Nifty, help!" I say "OMW" Knit reads Some_BishRook has shot you down. THEN Victory 1 by Nifty. I'm always just a day late and a dollar short on clearing 6's. :( )
- You have Drex and Cit shooting AT you instead of WITH you (along with FDB, Damned, AK, etc...)
- We're named after baby lice! :D
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Here's the root of the problem:
(http://www.hydeparkchess.com/images/Dacice/Classic590.jpg)
Many would rather be a sophisticated looking gentlemen than a medieval structure or a horse head :)
rook since da beginning - tour 3
Eagler
[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: Eagler ]
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Knits got associated with LW... and they left. :)
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Originally posted by Eagler:
Here's the root of the problem:
(http://www.hydeparkchess.com/images/Dacice/Classic590.jpg)
Many would rather be a sophisticated looking gentlemen than a medieval structure or a horse head :)
rook since da beginning - tour 3
Eagler
[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: Eagler ]
It could be worse... I could be associated with a horse's ass! :D Wait, I'm sure you all already think of me as that! :P
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
Knits got associated with LW... and they left. :)
Hangtime, don't know if you're joking or not but I think you may be right.
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Originally posted by Toad:
In the software, all sides are the same. Why don't people play as Knight?
Good luck!
ummm
cause the knights are out numbered?
cause if you want to fly knight you have to want to be fighting at 3 to one constantly..
How can you seperate the condition from the game? Of course people want to fly for the larger battalion, God is on their side!
They get to seem noble and self assured cause they dont whine....
Why is it so hard to understand that once established the natural tendacy is for this condition to continue? The uber side is not going to give up its advantage. The weaker side is going to get weaker as people quit and change side to enjoy the game instead of being victimized by it.
You are insinuating that the knights bring this on themselves. Knights just arent cool like you I guess. Its not the fault of the pilots. Nor is it some great credit to the bish that they have numbers. The condition is self perpetuating.
Its time for some idiot to post a "recruit your way out of the bucket" statement again.
The game has to be changed to take into account that the sides have to be somewhat ballanced to allow a common chance for all sides to expericance the same game.
There are many carrots that HTC could use to do so.
review this from a thesaurus
Game
Synonyms FUN 1, jest, joke, play, sport
Contrasted Words business, duty, labor, study, toil
The game is what you make of it. But certainly its not unreasonable to have it somewhat ballencing.
Maybe HTC could offer 10$ accounts to people to fly Knight..Maybe 60 of them would join at a time.
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LOL!
Yep, that's the easy way out alright. :D
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First off....understand your frustration with the Rooks hitting A11 Apache...was a little frustrated myself (Rook since open beta days) watching us lose V46 and A45 while they were busy hitting A11. Our squadron continued on hitting the Bish at A22 and finally captured it. Hoping to draw the Bish away from a defense of A45 and V46 we continued on and took A25 and A24. But were not successful at drawing them from thier northern defense....instead we drew some away from thier reset plans on your main island.
Not sure what the answer is to the low numbers issue. Perhaps having the reset occur with more bases (5 or 6??) would not have so many folks logging while waiting for the bases to dwindle to such an "uncomfortable" level before the reset. Might also encourage the aggressors to get it over with more quickly (get them 25 points and lets do it again sort of attitude). Anyway, that it is frustrating to say the least IS an issue. Hate to see it as a topic all the time.
RAS
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Originally posted by RAS:
First off....understand your frustration with the Rooks hitting A11 Apache...was a little frustrated myself (Rook since open beta days) watching us lose V46 and A45 while they were busy hitting A11. Our squadron continued on hitting the Bish at A22 and finally captured it. Hoping to draw the Bish away from a defense of A45 and V46 we continued on and took A25 and A24. But were not successful at drawing them from thier northern defense....instead we drew some away from thier reset plans on your main island.
Not sure what the answer is to the low numbers issue. Perhaps having the reset occur with more bases (5 or 6??) would not have so many folks logging while waiting for the bases to dwindle to such an "uncomfortable" level before the reset. Might also encourage the aggressors to get it over with more quickly (get them 25 points and lets do it again sort of attitude). Anyway, that it is frustrating to say the least IS an issue. Hate to see it as a topic all the time.
RAS
In my experiance in the last week or so the bish are not having any trouble with aggression..they are going for the reset full bore...They arent trying to set up some lame vulch or something. They are going for it.
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I always hesitate to post to this kind of thread. In the past I would have just thought it was our turn in the bucket, but this has gone on too long.
I've had a lot of work to do recently, so I've not been online much in the past 2.5 tours or so. (I doubt I have 10 hours total in the last 2 tours combined.)
I still like AH, but recently everytime I log on we are outnumbered, getting gangbanged with no radar. This has gone on so long that many of the Knight regulars have just started to log off or just furball at the same field. There is absolutely no way that we can possibly defend against 3 to 1 odds. Because of that I'd say most of the knights are just furballing just to have *some* fun. (I know I have, look at my spitfire stats starting from 2.5 tours ago.)
It's begining to be kind of amusing to log on at around 7PM, see that we have 4 fields, no dar, and every base is being vulched. I then usually log off without saying a word. I can honestly say that I haven't been online for a single minute in 2 tours where we weren't outnumbered or being hit by both countries while they basically ignored each other. ( I have probably 10 screenshots on my 2 computers of this. ) At first I made a couple posts, but anymore I just have stopped caring. :( Just one night I'd like to login and find we have more than 7 bases and 1 cv fleet. Radar and a city at 100% would also be a plus.
I know that if this continues for much longer I'll be forced to stop playing AH, and that is a decision I'll hate to make. :( (I've been here since the second week of open beta.)
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toad...."Or, it COULD be because there's something about Knightland that isn't appealing to a lot
of folks. This is the hard way, the unappealing way to look at the problem.
I'll bare my soul here a second (and get flamed for it, of course.) Long ago there was a
player shift. Many of the LW squads went to Knights, as was certainly their perogative.
This in and of itself really wasn't the problem. However, some of the more famous
complainers in the game ended up in K-land because of this."
That is what I meant.... I also meant that if you only fly bish and think that they are great guys and you also like it when squads rotate into bish land then why not rotate yourself...
lazs
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Interesting that its the LW players fault.
The plane that was perked almost in conjunction with the demise in knight fortunes and that was really the signiture plane for the knights was the chog.
If there is one thing that probably triggered the absence of strat players from the knights it was more likey to be the perking of the chog than any other.
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Originally posted by Pongo:
Interesting that its the LW players fault.
The plane that was perked almost in conjunction with the demise in knight fortunes and that was really the signiture plane for the knights was the chog.
If there is one thing that probably triggered the absence of strat players from the knights it was more likey to be the perking of the chog than any other.
Oh GAWD pongo, gimme a break! LOL! Nice try, sorry, but fresher bait would be better! ;)
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My hypothisis is probably 20 times more likey the one above it.
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Yah, shure; yu betcha. It's the C-Hog players that have left AH... I remember seeing all those "goodbye" posts from THEM.
;)
...and then there's Milnko's thread
that could be 23.675% more likely.
;)
[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]
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geeze... the lw guys whine about the whine amount they whine... Yeah, right... The Chog guys all made tearfull "i'm leaving because HTC doesn't realize that my plane was the best plane of WWII" speaches on this board.. Yeah.. the Chog guys all left with crybaby posts on the way out... Yeah, the Chog guys all left the only country they were in.... the horsey one. seems that now that it is a lw country we should get a lot of people there that realize just what a bad rap the brave and stalwart, uncomplaining LW guys have been getting all along.
lazs
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It's stupid to bash the knights for complaining they're outnumbered if you're flying bish yourself.
The reason for knight players being unhappy are each and every one of you that play bishop even as you know it's totally unbalanced. Any smart player will choose the side which is at underhand.
Going to the strongest side shows only that you're too weak to defend the small country.
Since AH is based on chess pieces, not axis vs allied, I don't see any reason why someone should stick to one side in the game.
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Last time i checked, All planes were enabled for knights, wasn't limited to LW ;)
besides, i do believe a lot of U.S. flying squads fly for knights....
I.E. Rip's ... Etc.
<S!> Hamish!
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Originally posted by lazs1:
geeze... the lw guys whine about the whine amount they whine... Yeah, right... The Chog guys all made tearfull "i'm leaving because HTC doesn't realize that my plane was the best plane of WWII" speaches on this board.. Yeah.. the Chog guys all left with crybaby posts on the way out... Yeah, the Chog guys all left the only country they were in.... the horsey one. seems that now that it is a lw country we should get a lot of people there that realize just what a bad rap the brave and stalwart, uncomplaining LW guys have been getting all along.
lazs
Man your on crack.
The knights arnt a LW county. You dont see any more LW ac in knight land then anywhere else. You never did. You saw knights in chogs and chogs and chogs. Well now you dont. You dont see the chogs and you dont see the knights. Coincidence?
You have some kind of huge "its about the lw thing" that you substitute for thought in every thread that comes along.
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pongo.. if you are saying that the reason knits have low numbers now is because they all flew chogs and they all left the game when the chog was perked what, 7 points? I would submit that it is you that is on crack.
The BK's left the horsey country because it was allways down to a couple of fields with no radar and it had a bunch of guys doing hour long "missions" instead of fighting. we didn't go to the dildo country because there were two many of em and we didn't want to fight over scraps. We got no ax to grind and don't care who wins the "war" but we don't pretend that the numbers are close when they're not. We are not martyr's and, like I said, don't care who wins. we just want a good fite every time we log on. The horsey country doesn't allow as many good fights as the rook one. The dildo country doesn't allow good fites and makes you lazy and flabby. rook is the best comprimise.
if the horsey country is not the deepest in LW then they at least have the loudest ones.
lazs
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I would agree that the knights have(had) some vocal lw types, but a lw plane in knight land is a rare beasty now. And it was when I was flying rook. I saw hordes of knight chogs. Tons of the things.
I sure dont see em now as a knight myself.
I find it funny that the prospect of so many players losing their favorite plane could account for "some" of the increadable loss of players the knights have sustained.
There were lots of knights to whom strat meant one thing. Massed formations of chogs. Period. I saw it again and again.
They cant do that now. Maybe they dont want to do anything else.
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Hi folks,
I'm new to AH (giving it the free trial) but not to online flight sims, and the numbers issue is a universal problem. It's the main reason (although there are many others) why I'm looking around for something better after playing AW since 1993-4.
It's human nature. When given the chance, many people will go to where they can get the easiest gratification. It's easy to get kills when flying in a crowd while it's harder to get shot down.
While I've found my kill tally can increase dramatically when I'm with the numbers, I find it almost embarrassing to get the kills (a holdover from my earlier AW days, which have passed, where how you played the game seemed to be more important than winning at any cost). Of course, the fifth time in a row when I get shot down and can't tell which of the six people ganging got the kill gets old pretty quickly too.
My first day up over the weekend (Sunday afternoon) was great, up to a point. After a period of crashing as I got used to the FM (and finding out the dive flaps on the P-38 don't do anything), I finally started getting a few kills in a Yak. Numbers were even at about 40 ea. country for most of the afternoon. I flew as a knit (having already seen the numbers posts on the boards and deciding to try and get off on the right foot).
Then, in bout 8:00 (U.S./central time)everything changed. There were solid red bars just about everywhere the action was, and each engagement seemed to be two friendlies at a time versus 6-8 enemies. Same old same old. It was time to log even though I would have liked to play a bit longer.
On the plus side, it is harder to take a base in AH (which is a very good thing), and easier to stay alive against a mob. I also don't expect to see looping and dogfighting B-17s ;-) And the community (as I've seen it) is friendly and helpful with more than a few "check six". They talk about "community" in AW, but this seems closer to the community I remember from the earlier days. Damm, I even see a lot of familiar handles here that I haven't seen for ages.
Still, since I got tired of paying $10/month for a game I could only enjoy playing some of the time, It's hard to see paying $30/month for the same. There are a lot of good suggestions on the board on how to address the issue. Of course, the end result should promote more even numbers yet still prevent stagnation where it becomes too hard to accomplish anything. I hope HTC can find a formula that works.
Charon
4261
[ 06-25-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]
[ 06-25-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]
[ 06-25-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]
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Just noticed that Dingy never posted in this thread regarding a numbers problem back about 8 months ago. :D
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lol
I think Hangtime is right
Around a year ago i remember glasses was asking every lw squad to swich to the knights and stick together. he was bothering the squads soo much that we switched our name to a non lw name:)
Trell
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So was Creamo. :)