Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: cav58d on August 19, 2007, 11:35:15 PM
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293714,00.html
What exactly makes this a "terroristic act"?
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[sarcasm] Should be charged with hate crime, too. [/sarcasm]
Edit: Included HTML sarcasm
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What makes this a hate crime? And I still dont understand what makes this a terrorist act?
All that said, this guy is a complete nut job. Bad enough he attacks and puts a teen in a wheel chair for the rest of his life, its even more wild to think he was doing it while his daughter was in the room!
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Terrorist act?! This is just stupid. It's like when the Patriot Act was being used against the homeless last year to clear them out of a public park.
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Nothing terroristic about that... The only wrong I can see is he didnt pull the trigger a few more times.
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You have to be kidding me no name...It's understandable for a parent to be upset in this situation. However, its unthinkable for a parent to discharge a weapon into the back of an innocent and maybe a little to horny 19 year old guy, WITH HIS DAUGHTER IN THE ROOM!
Your nuts man
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the guy was obviously not invited by the owner into that house. you're right though, he should have only pistol whipped him until he was red, black and blue all over.... (i was pretty ticked about something else when i typed that.... but i am over it now! - yes i get over things pretty fast.) LOL
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Originally posted by cav58d
Your nuts man
I resemble that remark!
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It just goes to show what abuses will be perpetrated when we give up our liberties in the face of scare tactics. We as the people allow broadly reaching laws to be passed and the government will use them.
I doubt the jackhole blamed his horny daughter for this. He'd shoot at the poor kid but not his daughter. Not that either one of them deserved to be physically harmed.
I feel bad for both the kid and his girlfriend. Send the dad to prison for a long time, but don't misconstrue it with terrorism.
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"Terroristic" act:rofl
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Originally posted by 68Hawk
.... but don't misconstrue it with terrorism.
Well if you ask me I can damn sure bet they were both a bit "terrorized" when Daddy when for his gun.......
(Before you all fly into huffy fits the above is a lame attempt at humor)
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Guess the kid never heard of a window.
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Terroristic it isn't. But he shot through the door with his daughter in the room! He deserves whatever time he gets. The guy's a nutjob.
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Kid's not too bright, huh?
He gets beat with a pool stick and then waits around after the father leaves the room?
I hope he can't move his wiener anymore either. Don't want his genes in our pool.
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He went overboard with the gun. Should have just used a baseball bat.
Of course in Louisiana its legal to shot an intruder. Not sure about Arkansas.
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You guys would be amazed at the previously minor crimes (some misdemeanors)
that are being charged under terrorism laws.
The dumb kids up here that write "death to so and so" on the school bathroom wall are getting charged with terrorism.
Ahh the joys of the police state:)
shamus
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beating the kid with a poolstick then threatening to shoot him, then actually going and getting a gun and shooting him as he tried to hide sounds like a terrifying experience to me.
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Originally posted by Xargos
Guess the kid never heard of a window.
Commando pantyraiders don't cut and run.
I got respect for the kid, and hell he was presumably invited in by the girl, a resident of the home.
If the dad is going to be that much of a deuchbag, forgetting when he was young and the splendor of young love, all he had to do was drag him out by his ear.
Parent's these days.....
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Just an example of what's to come. As usual the warnings are clear but not many listen, little by little the warnings will be realized.
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Don't flick someone off now, or at least if you do make sure to smile. Otherwise they'll surely claim they felt terrorized and you'll be extraordinarily rendered somewhere.
In the words of Dennis Leary,
"Whining F%$^#$% maggots!"
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I can't even begin to describe what a big pet peeve it is of mine when people throw the word fragment "istic" needlessly on to the end of words.
It isn't freaking "Terroristic Act", it's ****ing "Terrorist Act" or "an act of terrorism". Terroristic isn't even a freaking word and sounds ****ing retarded, like a moron that is halfway intelligent.
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Alright, I'll play devil's advocate here.
I read the link story; What it gives, is the genaralized story, from the authorities point of view.
We don't know what the kid might have said through the door; The kid might have said he had a gun, and tried to bluff his way out(My neighbor's kid has done that very same thing, to avoid a fight.)
We'll have to wait for the story to develop, and to hear what's said in the trial, before we make any judgement's.
The terrorism charge was just ****ing absurd, though.
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Originally posted by 68Hawk
It just goes to show what abuses will be perpetrated when we give up our liberties in the face of scare tactics. We as the people allow broadly reaching laws to be passed and the government will use them.
I doubt the jackhole blamed his horny daughter for this. He'd shoot at the poor kid but not his daughter. Not that either one of them deserved to be physically harmed.
I feel bad for both the kid and his girlfriend. Send the dad to prison for a long time, but don't misconstrue it with terrorism.
yup that's exactly what happens when you give up your rights. the dad is a moron but not a terrorist.
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This is another example of some DA losing his mind with charges. The INTENT of the laws on terrorism were never meant to be applied to a domestic situation like this....it's a bastardization and stupid.
NEWSFLASH - TEEN GIRLS GET WITH TEEN BOYS. It's not the boy's fault.....raise her right, expect the right decisions.
Dad needs to go bye bye for a very long time - time to reflect on just when he lost his idiotic mind.
What a shame....I bet, if you had told him that morning, that he'd end the day in jail for the next 20 years, he wouldn't have believed it.
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What is the father had warned the kid before that he was not welcome in HIS house? If so, then the kid got what he deserved.
And the daughter should take a lot of the blame if she knew how her father was going to react with her messing around under her fathers roof.
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Originally posted by Xargos
What is the father had warned the kid before that he was not welcome in HIS house? If so, then the kid got what he deserved.
And the daughter should take a lot of the blame if she knew how her father was going to react with her messing around under her fathers roof.
He didn't deserve paralysis. He didn't deserve being shot, or beaten. Dad could have called the cops...there was no immediate threat.
Are you so callous that you think a teen should be paralyzed for sneaking into his girlfriends room? Give me a break and THINK.
And, we don't know what he was told ahead of time, do we? So stop trying to justify it by making up circumstances (however idiotic) that you feel make it ok.
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If I told someone they where not welcome in MY house and later find them in it, I will shoot them, plain and simple.
The boy was hiding, so it is obvious that he knew he was not welcomed there.
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Why didn't the kid bail out of the window when dear old dad went to get the gun. If he had time to move the dresser he had time to open and get out through a window.
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There isn't always a window.....
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Mcblivet,
Except for a cave, I find a house without a window rather difficult to believe.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Mcblivet,
Except for a cave, I find a house without a window rather difficult to believe.
maybe they are masons :D
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Originally posted by McFarland
There isn't always a window.....
Building codes require windows in every room. (Closets don't count as rooms)
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Originally posted by Elfie
Building codes require windows in every room. (Closets don't count as rooms)
For some odd reason that reminds me of a movie I saw in the 80's of a person tortured in a small room. I can't remember that name of the movie but it was very disturbing. Does this ring a bell with anyone?
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Originally posted by TalonX
He didn't deserve paralysis. He didn't deserve being shot, or beaten. Dad could have called the cops...there was no immediate threat.
Are you so callous that you think a teen should be paralyzed for sneaking into his girlfriends room? Give me a break and THINK.
And, we don't know what he was told ahead of time, do we? So stop trying to justify it by making up circumstances (however idiotic) that you feel make it ok.
Thank you Talon.
You people are absolutely nuts. There is a lot of the story we may not know, and that could change a lot of things, however, with what we have, a kid was in his girlfriends room, and is now paralyzed for life. Anyone who applauds that is sick.
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"Terroristic Act" was probably on the books long before Patriot Act.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
I can't even begin to describe what a big pet peeve it is of mine when people throw the word fragment "istic" needlessly on to the end of words.
It isn't freaking "Terroristic Act", it's ****ing "Terrorist Act" or "an act of terrorism". Terroristic isn't even a freaking word and sounds ****ing retarded, like a moron that is halfway intelligent.
ter·ror·ist
–noun 1. a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.
2. a person who terrorizes or frightens others.
3. (formerly) a member of a political group in Russia aiming at the demoralization of the government by terror.
4. an agent or partisan of the revolutionary tribunal during the Reign of Terror in France.
–adjective
5. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of terrorism or terrorists: terrorist tactics.
[Origin: 1785–95; terror + -ist; cf. F terroriste]
—Related forms
ter·ror·is·tic, adjective <------------:noid
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If it wasn't so sad it would be funny. The Hate crime is because of the different races involved. Guzman I think to be Hispanic and Reed, perhaps a good old boy. Terrorist act comes from making terrorist threats, such as “ I’m going to kill you , you mother Fing so and so”.
Now speaking as one that climbed into and made a made dash from a few second story bedrooms in my youth. One of the first assumptions you always made was, her Dad owned a gun. Has he ever talked about going hunting? Are the guns locked up or is the gun case open? Are they loaded? Is he loaded? Has he ever driven around town with a dead deer tied across the hood? The kids today just don't take the time learn.
But then back in my youth, they only shot at you with rocksalt.
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Originally posted by Traveler
But then back in my youth, they only shot at you with rocksalt.
Of course back in those days the youth didn't carry guns either.
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Xargos forgets its not 1807 anymore...Girls have rights and young people messing around is not a crime.
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Originally posted by Tango
Of course back in those days the youth didn't carry guns either.
If its legal, why not? This kid was over 18, im suprised half the member of this board are'nt saying that this could have been avoided IF he was carrying a gun!
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I think what Tango is alluding to, Cav, is...If the Dad thought he had a gun or not.
Plus, if some kid walks into your house with a gun stuck in his belt, what are you going to do?
But, not to let this get out of hand. I'd like to point out, once more, that we only have the general description of the incident from Law enforcement. It does not state anything other than the basic facts of what happened. We do not know what things might have been said, we can only postulate.
The kid was hispanic and 19. That is all we know about him at the moment.
Let's see what else we can find on the story before the Dad is guilty until proven innocent.
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Gun ownership comes with need for responsibility and prudence.
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Originally posted by cav58d
If its legal, why not? This kid was over 18, im suprised half the member of this board are'nt saying that this could have been avoided IF he was carrying a gun!
There are alot of kids carrying guns that aren't doing it legal.
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Do any of the bush hating tinhatters here even have a clue about what law is being applied that resulted from the so called terrorism act in question? The story itself made no reference to middle eastern muslim terrorists or 9/11 terror kneejerkers. Im thinking local municipalities may have their own local laws regarding the use of terrorism against a victim in the commission of a violent crime.
Some people :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by cav58d
If its legal, why not? This kid was over 18, im suprised half the member of this board are'nt saying that this could have been avoided IF he was carrying a gun!
Oh, he had a gun...that's what got him in trouble in the first place!
Had he kept his gun holstered and locked up in his gun safe then he wouldn't be paralyzed today.
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Originally posted by 68Hawk
Xargos forgets its not 1807 anymore...Girls have rights and young people messing around is not a crime.
If they wanted to mess around then they should have gotten their own place. Don't forget the boy was hiding from the owner of the property which in itself shows he was not aloud there.
Custard Pie always costs one way or another, the boy was too cheap to pay for a motel so he paid in another way.
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Originally posted by 68Hawk
Xargos forgets its not 1807 anymore...Girls have rights and young people messing around is not a crime.
The girl was only 17. In some states it IS a crime.
Depending on the age of the youngsters involved, the boy can go to jail for statutory rape. Why girls never go to jail for the same crime is beyond my comprehension.
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The dad had an unreasonable temper and lost it.
Poetic justice would be that the girl is now pregnant and the kids marry.
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http://nwanews.com/bcdr/News/52443/
According to this, the kid was warned to not be in the house if the girls parents were not home.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Mcblivet,
Except for a cave, I find a house without a window rather difficult to believe.
Some of the older houses around here (log cabins, yes) don't have windows at all, they have gun slits in the walls just large enough to look through and shoot through. Very practical, I think. No one can break in through a window or shoot you through a window, but you can still protect yourself and your property. I think the dad was right myself. Kid shouldn't have done what he done, they weren't married. Although, he went a bit far with the gun. A whip would have sufficed.
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Now more of the truth comes out.
* Told not to come to the house without the parents' knowlege
* Told to leave when discovered - refused
* Attacked owner when told to leave
* Barricaded the room when owner tried to open the door
* Again, told to leave
Looks like I was right to start with... good shoot.
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Okay...After reading that the kid does sound like a POS, however, I still don't think he deserves to spend the rest of his life in a wheel chair.
It doesn't sound like the father was targeting guzzman with the gun, more using as a scare tactic, however, instead of letting cool heads prevail, and calling...ohhhh say....THE POLICE!, the father could have avoided potentially spending the rest of his life in jail, and sparing his wife and daughter the reprecussions of having a father, no longer able to provide for their lives, in prison.
I understand why the father was pissed, but its no reason to paralayze a kid, and even more so, it's no excuse to leave his wife and children paralyzed with the consequences of his stupid actions.
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From the link:
"The daughter told Felton her father found her boyfriend in the closet and began hitting Guzman with the pool stick. The affidavit claims that while being hit, Guzman kept saying “ Stop, I’ll leave, ” and her father kept hitting him."
He said, she said.
Regardless, firing blindly through a door is in no way responsible gun ownership. It's still not terrorism, but that bastard dad deserves to get thrown in jail for a long time.
We're they actually screwing or were two young lovers just trying to get some time alone? Doesn't really change the nature of the dad's overreaction anyway. Maybe the dad should have had a little respect for his daughters decision making abilities.
Proportionality when bearing weapons is not only a virtue but a duty.
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I'd say the daughter probably lost his respect because of her previous decisions regarding the boyfriend. If Dad said no boyfriend in the house unless he was there and the boyfriend parks a block away so the daughter can "entertain" him while Dad is at work sounds like poor choices on her part too.
I am NOT excusing Dad for firing the gun. The best choice was to call the Police.
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The responses to this thread seem to me to polorize two camps.
1. Those who have daughters and understand this man.
2. Those who want to or have poached your daughters.
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Originally posted by bustr
The responses to this thread seem to me to polorize two camps.
1. Those who have daughters and understand this man.
2. Those who want to or have poached your daughters.
I agree with you, Bustr-except, I don't have daughter's myself. However, I posted before the whole story came out, simply because alot of people were passing judgment based on the bare bones' story released by the local PD.
I'd like to point out, that there might still be some other parts of the story yet to be told.
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Bustr- For those that do have daughters...........Was it worth it for this guy to polarize himself from his entire family for the next 40-life? Sorry bud, but thats not the responsible way to deal with this problem, and because of some macho complex, which he very well may have gotten from posting on BBS's like this, he royally ****ed his wife over no?
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I don't feel sorry for the kid in the least. He was stupid and got caught.
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Originally posted by bustr
The responses to this thread seem to me to polorize two camps.
1. Those who have daughters and understand this man.
2. Those who want to or have poached your daughters.
I need to add a third camp:
3. And those who don't and are unwilling to understand people who live in fly over country, the other U.S. of A.
Personaly I like men who keep their word even to an extream. All the men like this I have known all my life won't cross the line they draw when giving their word. Most people in these mens lives respect and don't cross the line. And they never reap the results of crossing it. I don't have problems then with them misunderstanding me in return................
Regardless of the out come. He gave his word in plain simple english and kept it. Having grown up with people similare to those in this incident, you can be sure his family knew 100% he would keep his word if that line was crossed. His daughter could have waited till her 18th birthday and left home. Bringing the boy into the house after the father giving his word on the subject was not a survival strategy of an intelligent person. By that point she lost control of what ever fantasy she was trying to get away with.
She got her boy shot. Thats dumb.............Darwin is amused...............
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Group 4:
Those who acknowledge that the girl was just as horny as the guy and reject paternalistic crap that says a father can dominate a daughter.
If it was a son and his girlfriend in question it would probably be a different story for many who have posted here in support of such irresponsible gunplay.
I can empathize with the young lovers and realize that it was totally out of line for the father to do what he did.
The 'hes invading my daughter' argument is full of wind and belongs stuck back in the 19th century. So he told him not to be alone with the girl in the house. As a resident there she has some rights to the building too. It doesn't give him any reason to start shooting. If he had drug him out by the ear I might laugh. Beating the kid with a stick and then shooting him is heinous. Just because she's a 17 year old girl doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to choose things for herself.
Welcome to the 21st century.
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I believe the fathers side of the story for the fact that he did not get the gun to begin with and only retrieved it after someone assaulted him in his own home. I would not believe anything the daughter had to say for the mere fact she lied to her parents from the start.
The boy needs to go to jail for trespassing and assault, plus he should pay all the fathers court costs.
The homeowners are the victim, not the 19 year old trespasser.
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If it was a son and his girlfriend in question it would probably be a different story for many who have posted here in support of such irresponsible gunplay.
I didn't allow my son to have girlfriends in his room. I won't allow my daughters to have boyfriends in their rooms. Don't like it? To bad, I pay the mortgage not them. My house, my rules. Want to live under your rules? Get a job and pay for your own food, utilities and rent.
I was protective of my son, I am even more protective of my daughters. 19 yr old with either of my daughters? Ain't gonna happen. Catch him in my home alone with my daughter? I'm not gonna shoot him, but he'll be lucky if all I do is throw him out by his ear and call the cops for statutory rape.
As a parent it's not only my job to teach them right from wrong, teach them how to make sound decisions, teach them how to care for themselves (laundry, dishes, cleaning, self hygiene etc) but also to protect them from harm both physical and emotional.
As a resident there she has some rights to the building too.
As a resident (child) and a minor, she has very few rights. She has priviledges not rights. Unless of course she is paying rent, then she has certain rights.
Those who acknowledge that the girl was just as horny as the guy and reject paternalistic crap that says a father can dominate a daughter.
Don't like Dad's rules? See above, get out, get your own place, pay for your own food, rent and utilities. Until that happens....guess what? They live by my rules, not theirs.
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I didn't allow my son to have girlfriends in his room. I won't allow my daughters to have boyfriends in their rooms. Don't like it? To bad, I pay the mortgage not them. My house, my rules. Want to live under your rules? Get a job and pay for your own food, utilities and rent.
Yep, I did odd jobs when I was in High School just to pay for motel rooms. It was better to spend the 18 or so dollars then to end up shot at the girls house or get kicked out of my own.
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Originally posted by Xargos
Yep, I did odd jobs when I was in High School just to pay for motel rooms. It was better to spend the 18 or so dollars then to end up shot at the girls house or get kicked out of my own.
yup
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I dallied with more than a couple daughters during my High School years. I had no trouble at all complying with any of their Dad's rules and certainly understood that no parent home meant no visiting in the daughters abode. It also meant that other arrangements had to be made. That's one of the reasons a full sized car back seat was a great invention in the late 60's and early 70's. The trunk could also hold other interesting items like a tent, pads and other wondrous inventions to allow a thinking person to comply with Dad's restrictions and still.......nail his daughter. :t
Sounds like the kids involved were unimaginative, lazy and not particularly bright at all.
I'm STILL not absolving Dad for his actions. He had better options than to open fire in that circumstance.
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Lets add another group....# 5; this is your you Bustr.
How about the completely, out of their fluff'n mind, nut jobs, who have just proved to the world they should have never had a fire arm to begin with, who give justice to their actions by "protecing their daughter", when in reality they are thinking nothing of their family, and merely protecting their wanna be machoism.
Who's the real man here bustr? The guy who is faced with a very emotional situation, but loses his head, paralyzes a kid and now spends the rest of this life in prison?
Or the guy who is faced with the same very emotional situation, but keeps his cool, calls the police, and still can provide for his family?
I'm going with # 2.
I don't care if it was my own father who did this...I would tell him I understand why you did it, but you were completely wrong, and the reprecussions are going to bring a lot of hard times for a lot of people. You just ****ed up a lot of lives.
And if i'm on the jury of the case we are talking about, and it turns out that these has never been any abuse the the daughter; just a father who proclaims himself to be the sheriff, judge and executioner, then i'm gonna do everything i can to put that POS in jail for a long time...
Like I said...I understand, and can emphasize with the fathers emotional situation. You tell the kid he is not welcome at your home, and then you find out he is parking down the street and coming into your home? Sure...Grounds to be flaming pissed. But his response was not justified or appropriate, and like I keep pointing out...If he were to have just cooled off and called the police, which he possibly could have had ground to press charges and file a restraining order, he could have avoided the world of hell he is now putting the rest of his family though...
And bustr, don't give me that watermelon about this guy is a man of his word, and his family definately knew he meant business....I'm sure his wife is real proud of him, and really appreciative where he has left her and her children for the next 40- life....
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Wow, so acting like a maniac is somehow helping to teach a child good behavior? Kids will be kids to some degree. Were they smoking crack with the parents gone? Were they 12 or 15? That would have been something to get bent out of shape over.
It amazes me how some people treat their children under the guise of good stewardship. I pity some of your children.
I believe the fathers side of the story for the fact that he did not get the gun to begin with and only retrieved it after someone assaulted him in his own home. I would not believe anything the daughter had to say for the mere fact she lied to her parents from the start.
Your standards of evidence are astounding. We don't really know much about this incident, yet you assume she was lying to her parents from the start. Having a friend sneak over for a while is deception, but different than all out lying. And of course the dad is telling the truth because the firearm wasn't the first thing he armed himself with? I suppose the Japanese didn't attack pearl harbor because they're so polite!!!
Should they have been there? Probably not, but its not really for us to judge that anyway. WE DON'T KNOW THEM!
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Originally posted by Thrawn
I can't even begin to describe what a big pet peeve it is of mine when people throw the word fragment "istic" needlessly on to the end of words.
It isn't freaking "Terroristic Act", it's ****ing "Terrorist Act" or "an act of terrorism". Terroristic isn't even a freaking word and sounds ****ing retarded, like a moron that is halfway intelligent.
Being as your from Canada, I'll take that into consideration! :t But before you spout off about what is and isn't a word, be advised. We have had the charge of 'Terroristic Threat' in our penal code now for a number of years. The charge itself really doesn't have anything to do with Terrorism in and of itself, but means if you threaten to kill someone's a** and you have the ability and the means to do it, and your victim is made to believe that you will carry out your threat, then you can be charged with the crime of 'Terroristic Threat'. If on the other hand, you only plan to KICK someones a**, and the other conditions are met, then you can be cited for 'Assault By Threat'. They are of course different levels of misdemeanor. :)
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Originally posted by 68Hawk
Wow, so acting like a maniac is somehow helping to teach a child good behavior? Kids will be kids to some degree. Were they smoking crack with the parents gone? Were they 12 or 15? That would have been something to get bent out of shape over.
It amazes me how some people treat their children under the guise of good stewardship. I pity some of your children.
Your standards of evidence are astounding. We don't really know much about this incident, yet you assume she was lying to her parents from the start. Having a friend sneak over for a while is deception, but different than all out lying. And of course the dad is telling the truth because the firearm wasn't the first thing he armed himself with? I suppose the Japanese didn't attack pearl harbor because they're so polite!!!
Should they have been there? Probably not, but its not really for us to judge that anyway. WE DON'T KNOW THEM!
The 19 year old was trespassing. That in itself is a good enough reason for him to be shot. In S.C. the father would not be charged at all.
I'm a C/O in prison and have a very high conviction rate in charging inmates within the prison for theft, drugs, assaults and other such stuff. My supervisors do tell me that I have astonishing standards for collecting and evaluating evidence.
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Originally posted by Maverick
I dallied with more than a couple daughters during my High School years. I had no trouble at all complying with any of their Dad's rules and certainly understood that no parent home meant no visiting in the daughters abode. It also meant that other arrangements had to be made. That's one of the reasons a full sized car back seat was a great invention in the late 60's and early 70's. The trunk could also hold other interesting items like a tent, pads and other wondrous inventions to allow a thinking person to comply with Dad's restrictions and still.......nail his daughter. :t
Sounds like the kids involved were unimaginative, lazy and not particularly bright at all.
I'm STILL not absolving Dad for his actions. He had better options than to open fire in that circumstance.
Agreed, on all points:t
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Originally posted by cav58d
Lets add another group....# 5; this is your you Bustr.
cool, calls the police,
and called the police,
.
ohh call the cops... thats pathatic
telling ya right now i find a guy in my daughters room. ( being she is under 18)
i dont own a gun so i wont shoot him, but calling the cops certainly wont be on my to do list... then again i am not a cop caller never have, never will,
i am my own police...
okay back on subject to call that a terrorist act...is only the start, trust me before its over its going to get alot crazier
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68 your damn right...I feel terrible for some of your children and families...Do them a favor though. Why don't you go ahead and tell them that you are willing to abandon them because of some macho ego, and they should be prepared for the very real possibility of having to provide for themselves because their father/husband will be spending the next couple decades behind bars.....
I'm sure they will be proud of your strong principles and be right behind ya!
And on another note...Just because it is legal, doesn't make it right. Maybe its legal in South Carolina, but in this situation when a call to the police would have sufficed, but you decided to go overboard, I think you would soon see a lot changes in your life.
Is your pride really worth it to destroy the life of a teenager, and most likely kill any type of future relationship in the future? If so, I'm really disgusted by that and your not the type of person I would want any of my loved ones or friends to be associated with....
Sort of the same thing as we saw a couple weeks ago in another thread....Legally you can take the life of a police officer for false or uncriminal arrest....Doesn't make it right though.
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Calling the cops is pointless. I once had a neighbor who I took to court because his dogs kept getting out and attacking my family in my yard. Well this guy came into my enclosed porch and started saying he was going to kill me, I was armed at the time but he did not know it. Instead of shooting him I just called the cops. However when they arrived they told me it was a civil matter and there was nothing they could do. If I had shot him while he was inside my porch it would have saved me years of grief.
P.S. About two month ago the same guy assaulted a 72 year old man working in his yard because the old man had taken him to court over those same dogs, and again the police did nothing.
P.P.S. Macho has nothing to do with it, I know plenty of females who will shoot you just as fast as any male will for trespassing on their property.
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Family situations like this do not suddenly happen in one moment of lost control. There is a history of actions and interactions where everyone in the family involved knows the lines "not to cross" with family members. The whole soap opera is usualy transparent to the community.
The girl got the boy shot. Quit wringing your hands over it. These kinds of family messes are more normal than your "cooler heads should prevail". The stupidest person here was the daughter because she had fore knowledge of her fathers temperment and triggers to violence. 17 year old girls mad at their fathers do crap like this.
How many on this board aren't willing to admit the fine times they had with these kinds of scenario knowing full well the state of relations their object of lust was having with her Old Man?. How many of you know or knew exactly how to piss off your father. How many of you have sisters you watched play the Old Man for a fool when she was 15-17 living at home?
So how much of this was a 17 year old female child playing her father with predictable results? Children know their parents often better than the parent realises. This gents life is over. This child knew his limits and involved an adolescent 19 year old male in the scenario. She had so many other options if lust was all she needed scratched. Dad goes to jail because his daughter's ego needed something due to their personal history. Stupid horndog boyfriend got the last peiece of his short and stupid life.
Sad for everyone involved. But if you unravel it....stoopid people doing stoopid things running head long into consiquences. But the daughter had a choice to not screw two peoples lives forever. She is not in a wheel chair or in jail. She is 17 with her freedom...................... ............interesting...... ........
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To each ones own...
If for anything, I just find it pretty darn hard to defend a guy who blindly discharges his weapon through a closed door into a room (small if its a bedroom) where his daughter is....
I wonder how much the tone of you would change if his daughter was struck.
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For me not one bit.
She made the original choice of defying her father, involving a horndog, while knowing the man's limits and limitations. I have compassion for them knowing first hand the human condition. But I have little sympathy for any of them because the scenario shows three stupid people. All three are equally to blame and lacking in innocence.
If the daughter had acted according to her fathers directive, this would be a non issue. Two men's lives are ruined and the daughter has her freedom and future in the world. All for one decision she made.
Life has the bad habit of being actually very dangerous and capricious in killing or maiming us due to the most simple of personal decisions. Once the decision is loosed, the collateral destruction it ruins others lives with cannot be known until it runs it's destructive course.
There were no innocent actors here. Each played a part in this sad tragedy.
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Each played a part and one crossed the line...
Sorry Bustr. I don't care if you are my own father. You shoot a gun blindly into a room that your daughter is in, your not getting any sympathy from me or any other person, at least that I know.
And no one forced the father to get a gun. The daughter and boyfriend influenced the emotions the father had, but NO ONE FORCED HIM TO GET A GUN AND SHOOT INTO A ROOM HIS DAUGHTER WAS IN, AND DAMN NEAR KILL A KID. Any respectable gun owner should know that discharging the weapon should be of absolute last resort, when there are many more, less lethal options to bring this to the fathers intended conclusion (the boyfriend leaving the house).
And I think a lot of you are all talk as well..."ohhhh yea...i'll shoot a guy....ohhh i should have shot him and it would have saved me years of trouble"....
Yea sure buddy.
This isn't TV, and the second you pull the trigger, you open up a whole new world, that I don't think many could face Well atleast they pretend.
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Each played a part and one crossed the line...
All 3 people involved crossed a line.
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And I think a lot of you are all talk as well..."ohhhh yea...i'll shoot a guy....ohhh i should have shot him and it would have saved me years of trouble"....
Yea sure buddy.
I shot someone breaking into my house in the middle of the night about 18 years ago while living up in Lexington County. No charges against me where ever filed, even though he lived. So I know very well that I'll shoot.
And this incident didn't hinder me in the least when getting a job in law enforcement.
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Catching someone breaking into your house, and finding an unwanted guest is a big difference......
Let me ask you this...Reverse sexes in the situation. If you were the father and your son had a girl in your house, would you fire blindly into the room where she and your son were? Answer honestly.
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Excellent question, cav.
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Originally posted by cav58d
Catching someone breaking into your house, and finding an unwanted guest is a big difference......
Let me ask you this...Reverse sexes in the situation. If you were the father and your son had a girl in your house, would you fire blindly into the room where she and your son were? Answer honestly.
I do not support the fact that he fired blindly into the room, that was very stupid and I would never do such a thing. Even when hunting I'm very finicky about the background of what I'm shooting at and have let a few nice looking deer go because of it.
If I knew who he was I would have armed myself but would have hidden the firearm on my body and confronted him and order him to leave the house. Then I would have called the police and put a restraining order on him. If he had assaulted me while he was in my house I would have shot him.
Females are just as vicious as males, if you had ever worked in a female prison you would completely understand. If it was a female in my sons room I would handle it pretty much the same way.
The father should get some time for firing blindly into a room and not for hitting the 19 year old trespasser. The 19 year old should do time for trespassing and assault and the daughter should be forced to move out on her own.
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Originally posted by Xargos
I do not support the fact that he fired blindly into the room, that was very stupid and I would never do such a thing. Even when hunting I'm very finicky about the background of what I'm shooting at and have let a few nice looking deer go because of it.
If I knew who he was I would have armed myself but would have hidden the firearm on my body and confronted him and order him to leave the house. Then I would have called the police and put a restraining order on him. If he had assaulted me while he was in my house I would have shot him.
Well at least we agree on something... oh yea...and the female part. No denying they can be ruthless =)
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Cav,
Innocence and youth are not a get out of jail free card when you have been told not to break a rule. These are 3 very stupid people. Everything that happened to each of them could have been averted by the girl not breaking her fathers rule, and if he is in fact the kind of nutjob you seem to have problems with, leaving his home as soon as she financialy or cohabitivly could. You seem to want to issue get out of jail free cards to these two stoopid children. All three participants need a state paid gray bar hotel visit of vairing times and durations for being participants in this fiasco.
While circumstances force you to live with violence prone people, it is a sound survival skill to not pi$$ them off until you can leave the situation or you have the ability to neutralise them. Pulling a boner like she did is not a survival skill. Her father's conduct in this situation would indicate the man may have had a history of reacting in a direct and personal manner when it comes to his family and his rules. By 17 years old she is very aware of how he will react unless she is a moron. Last I checked Lust is not a usable defence in court for poor judgment.
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cav.. let me ask you this..
Do you believe that men and women are exactly the same?
lazs
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The kid wasn't trespassing until Dad got home and told him to leave. Until that point the daughter had invited the boyfriend onto the property. The daughter as a resident of the house can make an invitation. The fact that it is against the fathers wishes is a familial matter, not for the court. Dad might have gotten a restraining order against the boyfriend if he had a history of being on the premises without permission, but it's really fuzzy given the daughter inviting him there. That might have negated the restraining order if there had been one.
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The kid did not have the authority to do ANYTHING as a minor. If the guy believed himself to be a guest, he would not have parked his car 1/4 mile away.... unless, of course, the line to the girls bedroom was that long...
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There's a hell of a lot of presumption going on here with relatively little facts to rely on. Shame on some of you for thinking you know these people, their motivations and exactly what transpired in that house. None of us were there, and all we have is the he said/she said of a couple sparse news reports.
Its sad that some of you are actually condoning this guy firing blindly into a room. A few of you should do the world a favor and refrain from breeding.
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I'm condoning nothing. I'm condeming all three. Domino's falling start with the first one being placed in action.
Two mens lives are ruined because this female child did not act according to her fathers directive. Men like her father do not act in the manner he did all of a sudden. They act that way most of their adult child rearing lives. At 17 this adolesent female had a good idea what could happen if caught with a man in her room who her father had previously told could not be in his home alone with his under age daughter.
Three stupid people, two of them with lives over at this point because of this stupid childs ego.
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Bustr you are out of this world........
It's not right and i'm not condoning it, but I can totally understand how a guy that gets laid off makes the decision to make forced entrys into homes and start robbing people.....It's the companys fault and they should have known better....
Dude you really are insane, and I think 68 is right....I feel bad for the offspring you concieve
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The way I see it, it was a failure on everybody's part.
A. The father was not strict enough in his punishments before, and his daughter did something she shouldn't have thinking she would get away with minor repreccusions. Spare the rod and spoil the child.
B. They were not married, and sinned. I think the boy got what he deserved (maybe a little harsh, a beating would have sufficed), the girl needed a good whipping afterward. They need to be taught that wrong desicions will have bad reprecussions. Both made a wrong desicion.
C. Society for losing its morals and promoting these kinds of things on TV. As well as in other circles.
This is what happens when a society's ethics break down.
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But is Dad a terrorist?
shamus
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No.
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Originally posted by bustr
Two mens lives are ruined because this female child did not act according to her fathers directive.
You're trying to rationalize what the father did because of what one kid had a significant other do????
I just don't know what to say to you that could bring sanity to your reasoning.
It doesn't matter what gender either one of the three was, there is no excuse for what the father did. Was it terrorism? Absolutely not. That's an abuse of laws that were probably well intentioned, but were bound to be abused from the start. Just because one kid wanted to be with another kid that they cared about doesn't mean that they deserved to be shot at, let alone paralyzed.
That you keep trying to justify such irresponsibility on the part of the person who was supposed to be the oldest and most mature is despicable. If that's your moral standard please, for the sake of the rest of us, don't own firearms. If you do you should sell them now, as you obviously don't understand the responsibility involved with their possession.
I will reiterate that we have very little facts on this issue, and those who seem to know what was going on with this situation are very misinformed. I've tried here to give a benefit of doubt to the victims of this situation who, as the facts that we have state did not forward the situation to the point of violence.
Your baseless and paternalistic drivel belong in the dark ages along with the inquisition and such other forms of insanity.
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You're trying to rationalize what the father did because of what one kid had a significant other do
From what we do know.....the 19 yr old was not supposed to be in the home when the parents were gone correct?
The sequence of events started with the two you are so enamored with. Both of them broke a rule of the individual that actually owns/rents the home. Parents have every right to set rules for their children to abide by. In fact, it would be irresponsible of them to NOT set rules.
The kids should not have broken the rules of the house. The father should not have shot the 19 yr old. All 3 are at fault here.
I wouldn't want this 19 yr old anywhere near my daughters. He shows a huge lack of respect and immaturity by going into the home while the parents were away.
Bustr is correct that the girl has, by her actions, started the sequence of events that has ruined two mens lives. One will be paralyzed for life and the other will spend a very long time in prison.