Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Easyscor on August 20, 2007, 11:42:09 PM
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Subs have been covered better than I want to in other threads by posters who've put more thought into it, so this thread is about making them useful, what you need for subs to work in the game.
Put simply, you need to create bait, something like this to bring the players together:
AI convoys running down a 24 mile track built into the terrain, ending at a Port.
17 convoys per track running 10 minutes apart at ~8 mph.
Random (but mild) zig zag pattern to the convoy path down the track.
Total transit time ~180 min for each convoy.
6 AI ships in each convoy, 102 low poly ships per track.
Each convoy with 1 to 2 AI ack ah la the Trains + 1 Flack gun.
Convoys to Ports affect CV reup time. Port rebuild unchanged from current.
36 convoy ships per hour arrive at the port if unmolested.
Dead CVs don't start to resupply/rebuild until a hardened convoy ship arrives but only 1 ship is needed for the new CV.
Manned defense options:
Convoys have special small Icons for "tower", with clipboard toggle option. No visible "base numbers".
Convoys can spawn manned DEs with depth charges (DC hereafter) and PTs with DC option.
DE Gun positions selected per GVs and Bombers.
Alternately a standard fixed DE capable of hurtling depth charges 2x torp range.
Option: Add Emily with DC or... DC option to… TBM?
Summary details:
24 mile track, max 2 per zone.
8 mph average convoy speed.
17 convoys live on track at any moment in time.
6 ships per convoy, scattered for bomber avoidance.
1500 lb Ship hardness to discourage air attack.
102 ships per track (36 per hour arrive at Port).
204 ships per zone + 68 AI ack = 272 objects per zone max, 2 tracks per zone.
Very small icon mark to reduce clipboard map clutter, icon clipboard toggled.
Hanger for the PT/DEs is the Port's Hanger (no manned ack on AI convoy ships).
Player's spawn point leads the convoy and dies when the convoy is wiped out.
Player's boat spawn is based on selected convoy icon.
Convoy under attack warning message.
One torpedo hit sinks a convoy ship.
CV resupply/rebuild depending on the presence of a convoy ship track.
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Im all for well defended convoys with plenty of manned ack available. We dont need more objects for milkrunners to score on.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Im all for well defended convoys with plenty of manned ack available. We dont need more objects for milkrunners to score on.
My suggestion for that included manned DEs and PTs, plus 1500 lb convoy ships. Not impossible to sink but even if a whole fleet is sunk, another arrives 10 minutes later. Remember, the sinking of entire fleets has no affect in this plan unless the CV is also sunk. Then, the odds are still stacked against an extended delay in the CV rebuilding. A CV must be sunk and all the supply ships sunk continuously to have an effect. The more likely the supply ships are to be attacked, the more likely this will develop into a great fight, and that’s what we need for Subs to work.
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Well personally i say a big fat NO to subs but thats me. :)
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Then what are you doing in my thread? :p :lol
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I just wanna mess with your head until you change your wish into something that is more in line with what i want. It called lobbying the wrong person :D
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Easyscor,
Congratulations! This is a realistic and very well planned proposal.
I agree fully with it - contrary to Nilsen, I'm all for subs in AH - and will support it entirely.
Your knowledge of the game systems is deep, something I lack entirely.
For all it's worth, my to this brilliant idea.
Thank you,
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Subs in ah would have to be extremly arcade-ish or take many MANY years of development to get right. Just look at the various silent hunter games, and add that to ongoing plane development then you see that unless you want extremly arcade like subs (like pt boats under water) and underwater enviroment its not something i think any AH fan really wants HTC to spend time on. Just look at how long it takes for one plane model that works within the current game engine to go from vote to actual release.
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Yes Nilsen!
You define it perfectly, in a nutshell: I wish AH submarine to be a PT with a new skin and capability to dive to 2 depths.
Period.
No sonar, no battery poisoning, no snorkel, no sea-sickness, no pressure problems, no thermal complications, just a plain and simple up, down, left right, torpedo launch platform with periscope, a gun in the deck and two mgs in the tower...
Is that too arcadish?
Cheers,
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Originally posted by sparow
Y
Is that too arcadish?
Cheers,
very much so
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Ah...I see...
So it's you who I allways watch doing pre-flight inspections on your aircrafts... :D
I just spawn turn the engine on and firewall it...Not even a kiss to my ground crew, a hug, nothing... :cry
I'm really a pathetic Pilot Officer, a snob... :rofl
Cheers,:p
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This game has flightmodel that is to good to be dragged down by a joystick controlled submarine who sprayes torpedoes around a poorly developed subsurface enviroment. Sorry, but there are excellent sub sims out there ;)
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Originally posted by Nilsen
This game has flightmodel that is to good to be dragged down by a joystick controlled submarine who sprayes torpedoes around a poorly developed subsurface enviroment. Sorry, but there are excellent sub sims out there ;)
Nilsen,
It would be better to have a joystick controlled submarine than no submarine at all.
This would not be a competitor against dedicated sub sims, would be another addition to AH total war perspective.
Look at how CVs are and how much - although wrong - used they are.
Who never felt like stalking a fleet at periscope height?
Cheers,
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Well i dont agree with ya but thats ok.
No sub is better than arcade sub imo
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Well i dont agree with ya but thats ok.
Nilsen,
We do not need to agree individually with one another. All opinions are welcome and there must be different points of view, allways.
But tell me this:
If you saw a dark shadow on the water and a small wake of a tiny periscope when flying a TBM or SDB, would you or would you not drop a bomb to kill it?
Just a plain, simple, honest, yes or no.
Cheers,
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If i had a DC i would drop it yes, but then i would prolly drop a nuke from a B29 if we had it too even if i dont want either the b29 or the nuke in the game. :)
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Nielsen,
You have not answered my question. Let me put it this way:
«Knowing that 1 500 lbs bomb would sink a submarine and spotting one at periscope depth when flying in a fully armed TBM, would Ensign Nilsen attack the submarine or would not?»
Yes: place X here
No: place X here
:aok
Cheers,
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I have answered... read above.
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You could use “extremely arcade-ish” to argue against any ride in the game and it’s a very effective way to cut off the discussion, but that really isn’t appreciated here.
I expected to entertain a discussion about the number of objects that would need to be tracked, and we could compare it favorably to the number of convoy objects currently being tracked in a single zone. I expected a discussion about the number of polys in a fleet, and we could compare it favorably to a single B24 formation.
To reject subs because they won’t compare favorably to Silent Hunter 3 is hardly a reason to reject them since even though our ground vehicles don’t compare favorably with every box game out there, they’re still pretty popular in-game.
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Well actually I can use that argument along with the other arguments i have used becauses the game engine already very well supports aircraft and aircombat that is nowere near arcade-ish. This is your wishlist, but if you dont want people to comment on it you should just have sent it in via e-mail. ;)
You want HTC to put down time and energy on putting arcade subs in Aces High, and thats fine.
My wish is that they use their time on getting CT done, new planes and uptdates on the older planes in the planeset. That should keep them rather busy for a long time i should think.
Your convoy idea is good because the maps are already suited for ships and i doubt it would take them alot of time to add some cargo ships that are defended by the destroyers and cruisers we already have. They could even just add destroyer escorts to the supply barges and you have yourself a convoy that can be attacked by PTs and aircraft.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
If i had a DC i would drop it yes
Nilsen,
Second evasive on the question and you're losing E...
What I asked you to do was to give a straight, simple, yes or no answer. No ifs or buts. Yes or no.
No one knows if the DC will ever be modelled. And I'm certain that a medium bomb could sink a submarine.
For the third and last time, I'll ask you, simple straight yes or no answer: would you or wouldn't you drop a 500lbs on a passing by submarine?
This will be my last post in this subject, because I agree with Easyscor in that comments on the topic raised in the thread must stay focused on the threads topic and we are diverging.
Besides that, I admit that I may be wrong many times. But it allways comes to my mind those famous words of Bob Kennedy...
Cheers, mate,
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Yes i would but so what? I dont want subs.
If we had B29 with nukes i would fly it and drop a nuke, but i still dont want either of them in a game.
If i had Porche Cayenne I would use it, but i still dont want it.
I have never eveaded a question, you just dont seem to get that what you ask is totally irrelevant in regards to what we are discussing.
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Originally posted by Easyscor
AI convoys running down a 24 mile track built into the terrain, ending at a Port. - yes
17 convoys per track running 10 minutes apart at ~8 mph. - yes, although I would use only half;
Random (but mild) zig zag pattern to the convoy path down the track. - yes
Total transit time ~180 min for each convoy. - yes
6 AI ships in each convoy, 102 low poly ships per track. - yes
Each convoy with 1 to 2 AI ack ah la the Trains + 1 Flack gun. - yes, not so lethal as in trains - wich I wish to be removed completely - and a mannable Flak/Bofors.
Convoys to Ports affect CV reup time. - oh, yes
Port rebuild unchanged from current. - yes
36 convoy ships per hour arrive at the port if unmolested. - yes, but could be less...
Dead CVs don't start to resupply/rebuild until a hardened convoy ship arrives but only 1 ship is needed for the new CV. - yes
Convoys have special small Icons for "tower", with clipboard toggle option. - yes
No visible "base numbers". - yes
Convoys can spawn manned DEs with depth charges (DC hereafter) and PTs with DC option. - I think this would not be necessary, make DEs escort the convoy automatically as they do now in TGs;
DE Gun positions selected per GVs and Bombers. - also I feel it would not be necessary, already have automatic AAA + 1 manned position in the merchant ships;
Alternately a standard fixed DE capable of hurtling depth charges 2x torp range. - yes and no...DC modelling might be overkill, can't really say...We want to sink the convoy, don't we?
Option: Add Emily with DC or... DC option to… TBM? - yes, if DCs modelled, meanwhile, a rocket salvo or a direct hit with a 250lbs when surfaced or a direct hit with a 500lbs bomb when at periscope depth should be enough to sink a submarine.
So, basically, I agree with everything, having only small differences about the convoy defenses. Would the merchant ships be too hard to model?
Cheers,
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How boring would it be to be sitting in a sub that's 50m underwater, traveling 10 kts, with nothing to look at, no idea where the convoy or battle groups are, taking half an hour to move one sector? Fun!
It's an interesting idea but I have a feeling that after the first week, subs would be used about as much as the p40b.