Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Latrobe on August 21, 2007, 01:38:02 AM
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of these planes? The La-7, Spit 16, Hurricane 2C, and the A6M (both versions). What are your personal thought on these planes? Do you think they are "noob planes", your favorite planes, need to be perked? I'm just a little curious on what other people think about these planes. I for one think the Zeke is a plane that people fly if they can't kill someone that just has superior skill and better knowledge of dogfighting.
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The La-7 and spixteen are both n00b planes in my oppinion. I have finally sucked it up and got so annoyed at vulchers I took off in a spixteen from a capped field. I was able to get airborne and fight effortlessly, and Im confident if I had even the slightest skill at shooting I would have landed 5+ kills. The Hurricane IIC tends to be a HOer, but thats the pilot's fault, not the plane. Its an easy enough plane to kill, with no massive n00b-advantages. A6M damage model is buggered I think. Ive put 200+ .50s into them and done no damage. I refuse to engage them now. If I see an A6M, Ill keep flying, unless theres another enemy to engage. But I will NOT waste a round on a Zero.
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well, i've been flying this game for just over a year or so. for at least the first 4 to 6 months, i absolutley refused to fly the spit....any version of it. i like the 38, and someday will be good in it.....but i normally died in the 38 in less than a minute.......tried the 109, same thing.....110, same......so i finally gave in and tried the spit.....and could then see why thye always kicked my azzzz.........so.....yes, they probably are noob planes.....but also, since i been flyin one version or another of the spit, and the hurri2c, i've been living long enough to actually learn something that i might be able to take into the more difficult to fly planes. i like the zeke for the way she turns, and prefer the 5b as it's much faster....but i have trouble shooting, as i caan't see well oer the cowl.....even with the view adjusted up. i'e still never flown an la, as i'm too afraid i'll give in to temptation and try to ho everyone in sight....:D
so what it comes down to is.....if a lot fly the spit for the same reason as i do, then it would be wrong to perk it. some of us need it to fight enough to learn acm. same for the zeke, and hurri.....i would assume the la too, altough i've not flown it.
besides, as i'm quickly learning, and i'm sure a lot of you already been through this, who really cares what they can or can't do, or what they did in real life compared to in here.....we just need to learn to fly our choice of rides to OUR strengths, and try to force our opponent away from HIS strengths.
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john
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Originally posted by Serenity
The La-7 and spixteen are both n00b planes in my oppinion. I have finally sucked it up and got so annoyed at vulchers I took off in a spixteen from a capped field. I was able to get airborne and fight effortlessly, and Im confident if I had even the slightest skill at shooting I would have landed 5+ kills.
1)this is my bigfgest problem.....gunnery....i'm getting 1/2 way decent at avoiding being shot, and if i can saddle up on ya, i can most of the time stay there..but i couldn't hit water if i fell outta a boat:LOL
The Hurricane IIC tends to be a HOer, but thats the pilot's fault, not the plane. Its an easy enough plane to kill, with no massive n00b-advantages.
2)actually the hurri does have one noob advsantage....it can fairly easily out-turn most spits......and although i've been forced to ho in it before(either hurt, or outnumbered), i generally don't ho in it....it's MUCH more fun to see really important parts fall off of the enemy's aircraft.:-D
A6M damage model is buggered I think. Ive put 200+ .50s into them and done no damage. I refuse to engage them now. If I see an A6M, Ill keep flying, unless theres another enemy to engage. But I will NOT waste a round on a Zero.
i actually convert them into marker beacons....IF i can stay on them long enough.........i've noticed they can burn for a fairly long time though, as i turned off trget on one i lit up, expecting him to go in.......i was lining up a spit, and whammo.......the torch was on my 6.....and he kilt me too.......:rofl
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john
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The Zeke is not a "noob ship" like the other three are. The Zeke requires quite a bit of energy skill to survive and win against good pilots in faster, better climbing fighters. I actually kind of feel sorry for them, mostly. I call them "crunchies" because they explode with the slightest tap of my Brownings.
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Originally posted by Latrobe
of these planes? The La-7, Spit 16, Hurricane 2C, and the A6M (both versions). What are your personal thought on these planes? Do you think they are "noob planes", your favorite planes, need to be perked? I'm just a little curious on what other people think about these planes. I for one think the Zeke is a plane that people fly if they can't kill someone that just has superior skill and better knowledge of dogfighting.
Well, (my opinions will probably get me yelled at) my oppinion of the Lgay-7 and the Spixteen are that with the exception of a few pilots that can fly the hell out of them without all the ghey running, HOing, and ramming (Slapper comes to mind as one of the good ones, I have seen him make a spit do amazing things) my oppinion of the La and spit(Insert Mk # here, cause we have how many versions) are they are easy mode noob planes (this being compared to the 109s that I learned to fly on).
The A6m5 and A6m2 I view as legitimate planes to fly, as they are really not that threatning if you do not get suckered into their turnfight and keep your altitude advantage. I also notice that those that Fly the zero usually do not HO, those that do HO are usually the flaming commets that can be seen falling from the sky, because while a good plane they falme when hit really easily and a HO in one is just suicide.
On the Hurri, again I have to say that with the exception of a few pilots that can fly the hell out of them without all the ghey HOing, and ramming (Knuckels is one great that comes to mind, he can make the Hurri do amazing things) my oppinion of the Hurri Mk.2C is they are easy mode noob planes (this being compared to the 109s that I learned to fly on). That being said I will also give a big to those that learn to actually fight in the Hurri Mk.1 and Mk.2D because while still turning on a dime as the Hurris do, it takes more skill to kill with .303s and 40MMs.
On the matter of perking, yes on the La7 no on the La5. Yes on the spit Mk.16 and 14 no on the 5, 8, seafire, and 9. Definately no to perking the A6m2 and 5, but a perk on the N1K would be great, that way only those that have the skills to earn perkies could use them thereby cutting down on the HOing and Ramming by every Jonny Q Newbinhymer that comes along.
Lastly, I do not believe that because a plane is "easy" to fly that it should be used to learn in. I believe when one learns in a plane that challenges them do they build skill and cunning in combat, rather than learning a series of turns preceeded by or followed up with 4 Hizookas blazing away.
Any way that is my $00.02, take it or leave it.
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Like anything else it not the plane its the pilot that makes the difference.
Back when I used to fly La7's regularly I flew it hard, take it into a furball and scrap till they dead or I am. I was always fair game to take on a high pony or 109, and see if I couldn't reverse the tables on them. That part you might call flying with honor. Not interrupting someone elses 1 on 1. Not takeing the HO shot on the first merge, you know, old school stuff.
The spit 16 is in my opinion the plane that changed a lot of that. It climbs too well, runs to fast and turns too fast, and its too easy to do all of the above.
Hurri2c, only problem is that regular pilots learn to put it all on the first HO shot. Because its slow they learn if they want a kill they have to get it right away or someone else will steal it from them. Hence it becomes the HO monster that it is. Now if you can restrain that impulse, and fly and fight it clean, you can win respect, gain friends and influence people. But its very hard to do long term.
A6m series, great base/Carrier defence bird. Fair guns, good range, excellent turn. It takes a good pilot to wring the most out of this bird. SA has to be top notch, biggest drawback is once your into a furball with this one. Your there till your dead or they are all dead. You just don't have the speed to escape.
So its pedal to the medal and get tough, cause its going to be a long fight.
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Lavochkins are fun.........:aok
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Those naughty people at Supermarine - how dare they build such a great plane.
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IMHO-for what my first two months AH experience is worth the LA-7 is a freaking hard plane to deal with, most of the times I have been nailed by one it is from outta nowhere. Trying to track it down and slow it down is an exercise in patience. I have not noticed a lot of HO's. The Hurri seems to come at me HO almost everytime. I avoid HO's religiously, one because it is not a sound tactic, two because it leads to collisions, three because it irritates that crap outta people, and four the Spits I fly only take a scratch to be shot down. The Zeke, is another bear of a plane, I can't seem to shoot it down, I can't outturn it, so I leave it the hell alone. Again, I have not noticed any HO's. I fly the Spitfire family(Seafire, Mark IX, Mark XVI) pretty exclusively now. Yes the Mark XVI provides survivabilty due to it's capabilities. I have not noticed any HO's in the Spit, and the Spit is so easy to kill it would be suicide anyway. I agree with the old school mentality, don't steal kills, don't interfere in a 1 vs. 1 engagement (unless your country-mate has a bad turn of events), don't HO, yadda yadda. So anyway, my thought is that once I have good ACM skills learned at an novice level (Spits), then I can move up into a more tempermental, but obviously more dangerous plane. As always any feedback is appreciated, as good or bad, it only builds my knowledge on AH.
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There are no "noob" planes....just noob pilots. Every fighter in the plane set is formidable in some way. They represent the best technology available to the respective country at a given moment in time. The planes mentioned above have strengths that are more easily employed in the MA environment then others. You can take 4 planes from the "middle" of the pack (F6F,C205,109F&F4U-1) and all can handily beat all of the above mentioned. Pilot skill is much more important component of air combat. Given time and a lack of outside interference a better pilot will almost always beat a better plane.
In the heavily populated MA these planes do have a edge over many in that the la-7 is very fast (and much nimbler then many realize), the spit absurdly easy to fly and the hurricane is a 20mm porcupine. The zekes burn a bit to easily IMO to ever get labeled a "noob" ride regardless...the 1st lapse in SA and your normally the at the center of a weenie roast. Fly what you want and have fun...
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:aok Amen to that!
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Pssst...you forgot N1K2 latrobe
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At one time I disliked the La-7 and thought that it was a newb ride. Then after a couple years one day i found out that the plane doesn't matter. The way you fight is what makes you a newb or a vet.
It doesn't matter what plane your in. What does matter is if you can dance..... One wrong step and your dead. That dance can last 5 sec or 5 minutes just depends on you and your partners skills.
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Compared to other planes in the set, I find the Spit 16 quite easy to fly and fight in. It does alot well. More importantly, in my limited experience, is that it doesn't require flap management to turn well. It's great roll, and lack of compression mean that I can really concentrate on fighting and not managing the plane so much.
Does that make it a noob plane? Maybe. But I have also learned that it is not invincible, and that a good (or exceptional) pilot in a 'lesser' plane can still kill me quite dead in it.
I don't think it should be perked. While it's a nice plane, there are plenty of planes that can beat it if you fly sloppy.
La-7: Maybe I just haven't seen enough good pilots in this plane. I shoot down La-7's all the time, don't get killed by them as much as other planes. I've tried it a few times and I don't see what the fuss is about it. It's a nice little plane, but it's just not as uber as everyone makes it out to be imo. Perhaps in the hands of an ace it might be uber; the guy who spanks me in a P-40 would probably be a monster in the La.
Zeke: No way is this a noob plane. One ping and you're on fire.
Hurri: No way is this a noob plane. I would expect most skilled pilots can dictate the fight against a hurri.
With a plane set that is available to everyone in the arena, I don't see the reason to complain about what someone else flies. Don't like all the La-7's? Fly one yourself. Don't like all the Spits? Fly one yourself. The only thing limiting you is you.
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Originally posted by Latrobe
of these planes? The La-7, Spit 16, Hurricane 2C, and the A6M (both versions). What are your personal thought on these planes? Do you think they are "noob planes", your favorite planes, need to be perked? I'm just a little curious on what other people think about these planes. I for one think the Zeke is a plane that people fly if they can't kill someone that just has superior skill and better knowledge of dogfighting.
I think you should wory less about what they fly and more about what you fly.
The only noob plane, is the one someone crying about what the red guy is flying, is in.
Just accept that you could not kill him because of YOU and not because of his plane, and things may be more fun
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It's fun to pretend the plane is not a factor, that it is all pilot skill, but it is also a load of crap.
Vet vs. Noob - Both Spit 16's: Vet wins easily.
Vet vs. Noob - Vet in C202, Noob in Spit16: Vet probably still wins, but not nearly as easily.
...did the noob magically get better at ACM's? No.
That said, perking the "noob" planes would be a waste. The new guys need to have a chance to survive long enough to make the game enjoyable.
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I've always felt that pilot skills is 85% of the equation or more in a true 1 on 1. Eventually the better plane will win out but a good pilot can overcome a good but slightly lesser skilled pilot most of the time. In the MA enviornment a plane with cannons hasa much higher snapshot leathality. combine that with speed and or acceleration and you have a difficult plane to hit and avoid. The tiffie is probably as deadly an "MA plane" as you'll find for that very reason.
Many of the best "scorers" have marginal dogfighting skills, what they have is good SA combined with good gunnery and a flying style that seeks an advantage. The flip side is a number of pilots who regularly troll looking for those same "scorers" among others and gleefully give up their "6" to lure the other guy in.
More often then not the "scorer" in the spit16 (just an example) is gleefully pounded to scrap aluminium by the D25 he "bounced"...of course the flip side is the "trolling ace" is often cherried by the "two weeker" in the fly by la-7 (who lawn darts milliseconds after clipping the jugs tail off). The furballer gleefully sruggs it off while the "scorer" laments his lowered K/D # and the two weeker doesnt have a clue and goes back to pink fairy dust (WoW)....:aok
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La7 - I've only ever flown it twice I think but I have spent some time in the La5 and like the 5 but that's not the one your asing about so I can't really say.
When I see an La7 I expect a HO pass and a run. If they turn they are dead almost regardless what I'm flying. Given these factors there must be a lot of noobs flying them so they must be mostly noob planes.
Spit XVI - My primary ride for years (and the Spit IX before the XVI was introduced). This is an awsome little plane but it has it's downfalls. It holds E SO well in a turn that throttle management is critical in a fight and the clipped wings make it somewhat unstable when you get slow in it. For those reasons I now prefer the Seafire, V, VIII and IX for most situations.
I still like to fly the XVI to check out what the situation is in a particular area of the map because I know it will do whatever I ask of it and get me home safely.
When I see one I don't worry too much about it. Fast planes will out-run it and turners will out-turn it. Not totally a total noob ride but high on the list. You can still get yourself in trouble in a XVI and have to fight your way out.
Hurri MkIIC - Awsome plane and one of my favorites. I wish it had some speed to go with it's turning ability and firepower. If you can't get a Hurri onto someone's six you don't know how to fly but you have to be careful not to let them pull you into the vertical which is exactly how I kill so many of them.
I wouldn't call this a noob plane at all except for it's ability to HO. If you fly out to an enemy base you are almost guaranteed a long fight home (yes, I said fight, not flight).
Once you get the IIC down jump into a I and the real fun begins. The I is a perk-farmer par excellence and seriously under-rated.
A6M - LOVE the 2, HATE the 5. I don't know what it is but me and the A6M5 just don't get along. The 2 on the other hand treats me quite well. Awsome turning ability, decent speed for a turner and range that won't end. The only thing about the Zekes is you can't let ANYONE get guns on you or you turn into a roman candle but guns are easy to avoid with the turning ability of the Zeke.
Zeke killing requires slashing attacks. Attack, extend, reverse, attack. Definately NOT a noob plane as your SA and ACM have to be top notch to keep from getting flamed.
I don't think any of these need to be perked. They don't upset the balance of the arenas at all IMO. There are other better planes out there and every one of these can be beat.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
La7 - I've only ever flown it twice I think but I have spent some time in the La5 and like the 5 but that's not the one your asing about so I can't really say.
When I see an La7 I expect a HO pass and a run. If they turn they are dead almost regardless what I'm flying. Given these factors there must be a lot of noobs flying them so they must be mostly noob planes.
While the La7 is used by noobs it is most definitely not a noob AC. It takes a vet to get the most out of her.
Bronk
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My very subjective thoughts:
La-7: Very potent fighter. Most loathed yet still one of the most underrated planes of AH2. Not only high speeds were it really counts in the late war arenas (below 10k), but also deadly firepower and very good maneuverabilty. Only real drawback are the short legs.
Silly peer pressure is responsible for being largely a noob's ride, thus its impact in the MA is lower (K/D) than it's performance potential.
Spit-16: Sorry, I prefer the Spit-8, because it's more stable and a better gun platform (as long as you have ammo for the Hispano's). Still one of the best allround fighters in MA with it's combination of power and maneuverability.
Hurricane 2C: THE point and shoot plane. Easy to fly, easy to kill with in furballs & low alt base defense. Perfect M3 hunter vs the EW reset horde (you know who you are... ;) )
A6M5: Could be the best furballer... if it wouldn't start to burn just because someone is only looking at it.
The A6M2 lacks in firepower, ammo & engine power. The increased turning ability doesn't make up for it.
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I have no idea how you lumped the A6M into the noob plane catagory.
My opinion is any plane not sitting in the EW or MW palneset should be perked. But that's more for trying to create a reason for people to not do suicide runs on bases/CVs and to try to encourage them to actually land their plane rather than bail/auger.
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Originally posted by Tiger
...But that's more for trying to create a reason for people to not do suicide runs on bases/CVs and to try to encourage them to actually land their plane rather than bail/auger.
I think you would find the end result would be lots of folks in fast perked planes not willing to mix it up. The amount of running would be epic.
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Originally posted by SpikesX
Pssst...you forgot N1K2 latrobe
psst..i kill them on a daily basis. They're very easy to kill. :D
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They're all great planes, Hurricanes are my favorite though (especially the Mk. I).
There's no such thing as a n00b plane.
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never really fly the hurrican unles i feel a need to fly something different than i normally do and only fly the LA7 when i see it's a sigle 190 above the feild. 99% of the time they run so only use that plane cause i can catch them.
I like the spit16 and A6M for when trying to up from a feild that is almost or is capped.