Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Scca on August 21, 2007, 08:11:35 AM
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I just wanted to thank Monti for the wonderful lesson he gave me in the DA last night.
He will tell you he pwned me as he showed me his best HO technique, the whole time giving me a lesson in George Carlin’s 7 dirty words. If a single match-up proves his superiority then I was pwned.
It all started from a failed merge that resulted in a collision. He looped under me and struck my bottom side, I never saw it coming. Hey it happens... After that, he chastised me on 200, a challenge was offered, so it was off to the DA. I thought with his .58 K/D to my .94 K/D it would be a good match up. (ya, I know I stink).
The primary reason for this thread is he didn't trust that I got a collision message saying that he collided with me. I said I had the screen shot, but he, in his most eloquent way, said it wasn't possible. I offered to post it on the message board as I am sure he wouldn't offer a private email address, nor would he offer his BB name so I could P/M him. He accepted my offer so it's included below.
The secondary reason for the thread is I don't DA much so I am curious are there any "rules" (for lack of a better term) for the DA? Maybe I am looking for best practices, not rules.
I know nothing is set in stone, but when I go to the DA, I would like to do my personal best to conduct myself in an honorable manner, so win or lose, I feel I have done things the right way.
Monti thought it was bad form to climb out from the base, because when we got within icon range I had 3k on him. Did I do a bad thing by climbing out from the base? Should I have stayed at 5k until the merge? What is the protocol?
Since Monti was less than pleased with my advantage, I dove down and canceled my extra E so we would start on an even playing field.
Is there a "normal" number of fights? When you DA, does a single one on one really tell who is the better pilot? I didn't think so, but Monti did. He was done after one. I would think the best out of 3 would be the minimum to really show who is the best.
One last thought. One might suggest I not post this on the boards and handle my issue with Monti’s choice of words via HTC. I am a big boy, I don’t care about his truck stop vocabulary. I think the community should be the judge and jury when it comes to this element.
Post your thoughts good or bad, putting nomex on now :D
(http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL867/3163562/15751263/273184482.jpg)
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Looks like you both collided.
You have collided: = Your plane hit his on your Front End.
HOST: Monti has collided with you = Monti's plane hit yours on his F.E.
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"kma".......is that a campground like KOA or something? :rofl
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:rofl LOL, you both colided.
It is a duel. You know, take 10 steps then turn then shoot. It supposed to be on equal terms. You guys should have set the altitude and the rules about HOs before hand. Even if you didnt though, climing above your oponent does not make it a duel anymore. You should have known that, new or not. You tried to turn and shoot after 7 steps :D
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dueling rules: usualy standard for most people:
1 - agree on a merge alt and stick to it untill icon range.
2 - no guns on the first pass.
3 - best of 3 fights AT LEAST if it is to proove who is 'better'. some might say best of 3 fights in 10 different planes before you can decide a winner.
4 - is not a rule, but just how most people i know play. that is, dont play for who is best, play for fun.
S!
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Scca shame shame shame. you should know the DA is only a place to piss your opponet off. most like the DA for what it is and what it does. people like the one you took they get nothing out of it but a good RAZZ out of you.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
dueling rules: usualy standard for most people:
1 - agree on a merge alt and stick to it untill icon range.
2 - no guns on the first pass.
3 - best of 3 fights AT LEAST if it is to proove who is 'better'. some might say best of 3 fights in 10 different planes before you can decide a winner.
4 - is not a rule, but just how most people i know play. that is, dont play for who is best, play for fun.
S!
Sounds good... Thanks Bat...
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Originally posted by Jackal1
"kma".......is that a campground like KOA or something? :rofl
Ya, that one slipped.. Consider my hand slapped...
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Ya, it says ya both colided, so ya both flew too close, oh well.
As for the DA, I don't go in there much, but Batfink laid out the "rules" as I understand them. In most cases those are brought up before a duel just as a matter of course.
The only time I go into the DA, is when I need squadie to teach me something. There are too many DA "tricks" people use to get even the slightest advantage in a fight. I have enough trouble trying to keep my plane in the air in the MA's as it is !! I don't have time to learn a whole nother style of fighting.
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Originally posted by evenhaim
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Real men don't shoot you in the back :D
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Well, Batfink and others pretty well covered most of your questions... About the only advice I can give you is next time you collide, say "wooops" or something like that and laugh it off instead of going with your "nice collision" response. It looks like it gave you extra aggravation this time.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Ya, it says ya both colided, so ya both flew too close, oh well.
As for the DA, I don't go in there much, but Batfink laid out the "rules" as I understand them. In most cases those are brought up before a duel just as a matter of course.
The only time I go into the DA, is when I need squadie to teach me something. There are too many DA "tricks" people use to get even the slightest advantage in a fight. I have enough trouble trying to keep my plane in the air in the MA's as it is !! I don't have time to learn a whole nother style of fighting.
No argument that I collided too. I lost sight of him when I went into a high yoyo. I pulled up and started to roll so I could regain vis and boom. I assumed he did something similar as he was under me when I went up and struck me in the belly. No argument there...
The only "rules" we had where, he chose the base and the plane, as I didn't care. I fly all planes equally poor...
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The bottom line, Scca, is if he didn't lay out specific rules prior to the duel, you don't have anything to feel bad about. Every time a regular dueler goes in, one of the first things they type is: "Plane, fuel, alt?" If they don't, they can't really complain.
Don't worry about it ;)
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Originally posted by Vudak
The bottom line, Scca, is if he didn't lay out specific rules prior to the duel, you don't have anything to feel bad about. Every time a regular dueler goes in, one of the first things they type is: "Plane, fuel, alt?" If they don't, they can't really complain.
Don't worry about it ;)
So what your saying is, I shot myself down by giving away my advantage.. :mad: AAARRRRGHHH!!!!
Thanks for the insight. I almost never go to the DA since I am SOOOO bad. If called out, I will since I may just learn something.
I guess I should have listened to what my Mama said a long time ago. "Arguing with a moron is like wrestling with a pig….all you do is get dirty, and the pig likes it."
Monti, nice win in the DA!!!
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you seem to lack a little insight...your hypercritical of monti's response but you actually instigated the bad feelings with your "KMA" and "nice collision" retorts...
then you come here and (i guess you are trying to be clever) sling back handed compliments at him....
you actually had me wondering if he was out of line but then you posted the screen shot which clearly showed you were at fault with the collision and that you then typed abbreviations for words that im guessing would qualify as "truck stop"....
if there is a lesson here, then im guessing it might be "dont start a conversation in a language you dont want to have slung back at you"
:huh
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
you seem to lack a little insight...your hypercritical of monti's response but you actually instigated the bad feelings with your "KMA" and "nice collision" retorts...
then you come here and (i guess you are trying to be clever) sling back handed compliments at him....
you actually had me wondering if he was out of line but then you posted the screen shot which clearly showed you were at fault with the collision and that you then typed abbreviations for words that im guessing would qualify as "truck stop"....
if there is a lesson here, then im guessing it might be "dont start a conversation in a language you dont want to have slung back at you"
:huh
I was just about to type the same thing.
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Originally posted by Scca
So what your saying is, I shot myself down by giving away my advantage.. :mad: AAARRRRGHHH!!!!
You guys for real? You ask someone or were asked by someone to duel and you want to have an advantage? As I said, 10 steps turn and shoot. You are wondering if it was ok that you were trying to shoot after 7? :rofl Do you have a concept of what a duel is?
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Originally posted by Scca
So what your saying is, I shot myself down by giving away my advantage.. :mad: AAARRRRGHHH!!!!
No, that's not what I was saying. What I was saying was, if I don't lay out the groundrules before a fair fight, I can't expect the other guy to be psychic.
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Originally posted by Vudak
No, that's not what I was saying. What I was saying was, if I don't lay out the groundrules before a fair fight, I can't expect the other guy to be psychic.
Originally posted by dedalos
You guys for real? You ask someone or were asked by someone to duel and you want to have an advantage? As I said, 10 steps turn and shoot. You are wondering if it was ok that you were trying to shoot after 7? :rofl Do you have a concept of what a duel is?
Ah, I got what you're saying now. Same plane, same alt, same "E", yada, yada, yada...
Get it straight before you start, so there can be no complaints. Cool, then I did right by him by returning to him my advantage (and maybe more).
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
dueling rules: usualy standard for most people:
1 - agree on a merge alt and stick to it untill icon range.
2 - no guns on the first pass.
3 - best of 3 fights AT LEAST if it is to proove who is 'better'. some might say best of 3 fights in 10 different planes before you can decide a winner.
4 - is not a rule, but just how most people i know play. that is, dont play for who is best, play for fun.
S!
Just to chime in here, if you can't agree on rules, there's no point in dueling.
The 332nd has rules for intra-squad dueling:
1. Agree on merge alt before takeoff. Do not go above merge alt and 'zoom' for more E.
2. First merge, guns cold, wingtip to wingtip as close as possible. As soon as your wings cross, game on.
3. Best of 5 is winner. Challenged picks the 1st, 3rd and 5th plane, Challenger picks 2nd and 4th.
4. After the initial merge, all shots are fair game. If you don't want to HO, avoid the HO. Aggression is rewarded in the DA.
5. Obviously, same planes, same fuel and gun package loadout.
6. Dueling is a learning experience and supposed to be fun, win or lose. It is not a 'bragging rights' experience.
I think the problem here is that you're fighting someone you obviously dislike and have no respect for (and likewise he has none for you), and it's all about the pissing contest. That will never end well, especially when you end up so ticked off that you come in here and spew on the boards about how much of a jerk he is. He won, simply because you're mad and he's laughing.
Hey Ren, looks like Dano's got himself a bit of a pottymouth, looking at that screenie. ;)
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Originally posted by scottydawg
2. wingtip to wingtip as close as possible. As soon as your wings cross, game on.
No offense, but I'm not sure this is going to help you guys learn anything that might be even remotely applicable in the MA or in any duel with anyone besides other squaddies.
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Originally posted by Vudak
No offense, but I'm not sure this is going to help you guys learn anything that might be even remotely applicable in the MA or in any duel with anyone besides other squaddies.
None taken.
How else would it be done? Just curious. Hot guns (i.e. HO merge) first pass?
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Originally posted by scottydawg
Just to chime in here, if you can't agree on rules, there's no point in dueling.
The 332nd has rules for intra-squad dueling:
1. Agree on merge alt before takeoff. Do not go above merge alt and 'zoom' for more E.
2. First merge, guns cold, wingtip to wingtip as close as possible. As soon as your wings cross, game on.
3. Best of 5 is winner. Challenged picks the 1st, 3rd and 5th plane, Challenger picks 2nd and 4th.
4. After the initial merge, all shots are fair game. If you don't want to HO, avoid the HO. Aggression is rewarded in the DA.
5. Obviously, same planes, same fuel and gun package loadout.
6. Dueling is a learning experience and supposed to be fun, win or lose. It is not a 'bragging rights' experience.
I think the problem here is that you're fighting someone you obviously dislike and have no respect for (and likewise he has none for you), and it's all about the pissing contest. That will never end well, especially when you end up so ticked off that you come in here and spew on the boards about how much of a jerk he is. He won, simply because you're mad and he's laughing.
Hey Ren, looks like Dano's got himself a bit of a pottymouth, looking at that screenie. ;)
I like rules 1-5. I think they provide for a good set up to see just who is the better pilot.
Rule 6 has it's place for intra-squad training, but here is one definition I found online for the word duel
Duel
n 1: a prearranged fight with deadly weapons by two people (accompanied by seconds) in order to settle a quarrel over a point of honor [syn: affaire d'honneur]
2: any struggle between two skillful opponents (individuals or groups)
v : fight a duel, as over one's honor or a woman; "In the 19th century, men often dueled over small matters"
[also: duelling, duelled]
You may see it differently, but this is an online combat sim. Using the above definition of Duel, one could assume bragging rights are part of it. Otherwise, why have a "Dueling Arena"? It would be a Training Arena, which we have available too. Just a difference of opinion I guess. We all want different things out of our $15 a month.
BTW, I am not mad, I think it's funny. In the end, I went to bed with a smile, and tonight, I will have a fresh cartoon plane to fly in my virtual world. Search my posts and you will find I am actually a pretty nice guy. I don't normally post something like this. It was at the request of Monti and without some background, the picture wouldn't have made any sense.
I do thank you for your input. I will use your guide lines along with BatfinkV's if ever I do go to the DA again. As mentioned in the original post, I don't DA often, so this has been a VERY informative thread, and I am glad I did it.
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Originally posted by scottydawg
None taken.
How else would it be done? Just curious. Hot guns (i.e. HO merge) first pass?
Thank you :) I always get nervous when I have to type that :D
No, the rest of your rules are pretty much standard, it was just the wing tip to wing tip part that was a bit odd.
Most people say, "3k (or whatever agreed on alt) until Icon range, after that, whatever." You'll find that some duelers will try to get below the other guy, some people will try a lead turn, others will merge as close as possible like you said, while others will stay high.
Getting slightly below the guy has a number of advantages, and so you'll often (darn near always) find that both guys end up skimming the deck, trying to take advantage of, or at least neutralize that. Much of dueling/fighting in the MA even is being unpredictable, and that particular rule of yours takes that away.
Just some suggestions :)
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Oh, and Scca, if you want to look at the DA as a place for "bragging rights," you can, but remember two things:
1. You're always going to find someone better. (Aka, your bragging rights aren't good for much ;) ); and
2. You'll learn infinitely more if you leave your ego at the door.
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Originally posted by Scca
I like rules 1-5. I think they provide for a good set up to see just who is the better pilot.
Rule 6 has it's place for intra-squad training, but here is one definition I found online for the word duel
You may see it differently, but this is an online combat sim. Using the above definition of Duel, one could assume bragging rights are part of it. Otherwise, why have a "Dueling Arena"? It would be a Training Arena, which we have available too. Just a difference of opinion I guess. We all want different things out of our $15 a month.
BTW, I am not mad, I think it's funny. In the end, I went to bed with a smile, and tonight, I will have a fresh cartoon plane to fly in my virtual world. Search my posts and you will find I am actually a pretty nice guy. I don't normally post something like this. It was at the request of Monti and without some background, the picture wouldn't have made any sense.
I do thank you for your input. I will use your guide lines along with BatfinkV's if ever I do go to the DA again. As mentioned in the original post, I don't DA often, so this has been a VERY informative thread, and I am glad I did it.
I agree absolutely about #6, that rule fits the squad duels. And I also agree that this is first and foremost a combat sim and bragging rights have their place (fortunately I have no use for them or I would be one sad fella in this game).
However without agreed rules it's not really a duel. That's where things went awry for you. If you do decide to take or leave whatever rules you see fit, make sure the other guy is on the same page or it's just a 1 on 1 fight in the DA. The only reason for the rules is to have a level playing field at the beginning of the fight, which as Vudak pointed out, has really no use in the MA.
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Originally posted by Vudak
Oh, and Scca, if you want to look at the DA as a place for "bragging rights," you can, but remember two things:
1. You're always going to find someone better. (Aka, your bragging rights aren't good for much ;) ); and
2. You'll learn infinitely more if you leave your ego at the door.
To each his own.
KOTH and other such events say there is a place for chest thumping. We are ranked/scored and each month the top players are announced on the home page. Some think this is bad, others not.
We all play the game for our own reasons.
Thanks for your help.
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Originally posted by Vudak
Well, Batfink and others pretty well covered most of your questions... About the only advice I can give you is next time you collide, say "wooops" or something like that and laugh it off instead of going with your "nice collision" response. It looks like it gave you extra aggravation this time.
I concur
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Originally posted by Vudak
Well, Batfink and others pretty well covered most of your questions... About the only advice I can give you is next time you collide, say "wooops" or something like that and laugh it off instead of going with your "nice collision" response. It looks like it gave you extra aggravation this time.
Missed this post...
True enough, I guess Monti's first comment got my goat a little. It was late, I was tired. I should have ignored his taunt.
But look how much I have learned!! :D
Turned a bad situation into a learing experience. It isn't all bad...
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the one thing in DA id like to see changed is the rounds hot after first merge.
i think it should be first merge hot, no HOS though.
wing tip to wing tip does not really prove any thing but who can turn the plane faster around, to get to the HO,
i think in DA where TO ME its about HONOR and RESPECT.
it should be about ACM not who can get the HO shot off faster.
anyways this is IMO, but i am insane so dont listen to me.
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Originally posted by ink
i think it should be first merge hot, no HOS though.
:huh
Why would you want to fire before the 1st merge, period?