Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Nefarious on August 21, 2007, 08:50:12 PM
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In Frame 3 we saw something that rarely happened in the first two frames.
The Airfields Targets were heavily attacked, and the points show it...All the Fighter and Bomber Hangars were destroyed at A9 and A18, giving us an even 250 Points for both sides. Then we factor in the single engine fighter kills...
Allies: 61 Kills x 5 = 305 Points
Axis: 67 Kills x 5 = 335 Points
Then the Twin Engine Kills
Allies: 4 Kills (Ki-67s)x 10 = 40 Points
Axis: 7 Kills (P38Gs)x 10 = 70 Points
The Axis also sunk the Allied Cruiser from the Cruiser Task Force for another 100 Points. Frame 3 Totals look like this
Allied: 595
Axis: 755
TOTAL:
ALLIED: 1755
AXIS: 1830
Way to go on a great Pacific Battle, good luck on the next FSO!
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Much fun guys
Enjoyed it immensely.
Except for Frame 2, where I flew around for 1 1/2 hours doing nothing.
;)
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Thanks Nef and the rest of the CM team for a fun FSO.
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:aok
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Thank You CM Team.
Congrats Imperial Japanese.
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hey cool i wus the only KI67 pilot to get kills? i scored 4 in KI67 so i guess so lol only 4 all together for all axis lol <
> c ya guys next FSO:aok :aok
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The score indicates 4 kills of a ki-67, not 4 kills by a ki-67.
Just wanted to clarify that.
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Outstanding win for the axis!
to the allies. And to the CM staff!:aok
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I good event, and much fun. But really it's a tie. only 75 points, about 4%.
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One question. How many A6M5B's were allocated to the Axis for frame 3?
Rules say 32.
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It was to be 32. I will do a count.
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They only used 19, in frame 3.
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I count 39 A6M5's being used in frame 3 according to the logs.
Dont see how you count only 19.
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I counted less than 32.
You have to look at the detailed report and not the summary report.
If I up twice in a A6m5b, the summary will count that twice.
Glad to hear everyone had fun and/or lots of action.
Also nice to see groups of B5N's survive a frame.
We sunk that Axis CV 5 minutes after logs were closed. If the Allies weren't afraid, they'd have moved it closer by 25miles. :)
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Originally posted by Joker312
I count 39 A6M5's being used in frame 3 according to the logs.
Dont see how you count only 19.
What you are looking at includes the relaunch after rearming.
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To all the CM Guys
<>!!!!!
Didnt do very well this time around, but I sure had alot of fun doing (or not doing) it!!
Very nice scenario was tons of fun so Thank You all for the time and effort.
:aok
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37 A6M5B's were used. Thats what the logs show. Thats only looking at first launch, not re-arms.
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o ok thnx forHIM i didnt understand that <
> ForHIM:aok :aok
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Originally posted by DmdJJ
37 A6M5B's were used. Thats what the logs show. Thats only looking at first launch, not re-arms.
I get 37 also when I go back and look.....
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19? Don't know where that number comes from Sled.
37 is correct, accurate initial launch number. 36 in squadron sized groups. (1 more) ShaknBake launched one in a A6m2 squad (?). making a total of 37.
My quess is either orders were Fubar, or one of the smaller (4 or 5 plane ) units, disregarded their orders. Hoping that is not the case, but would not be overly surprised as units seem to be acting more and more individually lately. That is not the spirit of FSO folks. This is a team operation, and careful planning, delivery, and execution of orders is imperative from all.
EDIT: JG11 was Axis btw, and we requested A6m5b's. We were however assigned A6m2's...and that's what we flew.
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Yeah, that's not cool. That kind of thing might fly in Snapshots, but we need to keep it by the book for FSO. The designers work very hard to make sure the sides are more or less evenly matched (or accurately portrayed, given the circumstances), and when a squad decides they want to just all up whatever they want regardless of the cap limits, it's unfair to everyone.
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I'm looking into why so many were upped.
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Nef,
The "56th", "Fate",and "AK's", account for the "allowed number" of a6m5b's allowed by setup.
For some reason, the "Raw Prawns" and ShakenBake of "The Isle of misfit Toys" also upped A6m5b's.
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Oops, my bad :o
yes it is 37. I had typed in the wrong plane when I did my search. (I was in a hurry)
We will look into it guys, there will be a penalty, but the event is still going to be basically a tie.
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Personally I care nothing for the end score, I care that the FSO is as fair and 'as-designed' as possible. Then if it sucks we know who to yell at. ;)
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Sled,
One thing. Mistakes happen. We all make them. But I would respectfuly suggest we stop calling every event a "Tie". Win or lose I don't care, but alot of folks do. And a 1 point difference makes a win or a loss. Not a tie. Why do we even bother with fair setups and the use of points if every event is going to be called a tie?
Just a suggestion sir, for the good of the FSO. And I fully understand that you are trying to get the focus on Fun, enjoyment, and the fight, but declaring an event a tie, when in reality it is not...well..I think that is damaging to the FSO.
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A typo on my part allowed too many squads to up with a6m5bs.
I realized this at the start, but decided to go with it, due to a squad showingup in below their minimum, I thought I might just get 32 of 34. I knew the consequences and decided to continue with it.
Had I changed it, the enemy CV would have been destroyed. It only needed 1 more B5N drop and if I changed the error in the begging, 4 more B5Ns would have upped. The B5N's made it to target without any enemy aircraft in sight.
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Kermit thats not a good excuse. Not that any excuse is needed but to say a CV would be dead if I didnt allow my side to up too many -5 zekes is conjecture and inadmissable. Its just silly to say "my side would have won big if we didnt cheat"
I care not what the outcome of this is. I had fun and I appreciate all the work that others (the CM's and side CO's) do to enable us to enjoy a Friday evening in the virtual skies.
This was a well designed affair and the closeness in the scoring attests to that fact. Mistakes will always be made as it is near impossible to enforce all the rules during the frame.
A mistake has been found, no big deal. I suggest we let this drop and look forward to the next installment of FSO.
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I expect a penalty.
The extra A6m5bs didn't see any action prior to the b5ns hitting the CV. They flew next to the bombers the whole time to the target.
I'm only givng the what would have happend if I had 32 or less A6m5bs up, just in case someone wants to pull the "we lost because of this" card.
I wanted the squads to have fun on both sides.
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Kermit, I see I cannot reason with you. You have your agenda and you are going to make your case to the very end.
Take a moment and think about your position. After you do that, if you still feel its necessary to to put silly thoughts to typed words, then I wish you only the best. I will not reply anymore to such an untenable rant.
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Joker is right Kermit. You are way off base here.
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Originally posted by Joker312
Take a moment and think about your position. After you do that, if you still feel its necessary to to put silly thoughts to typed words, then I wish you only the best.
:rofl
I know it wasn't meant to be a joke but I'm still laughing.
That should be a sticky on every forum of this board!
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
A typo on my part allowed too many squads to up with a6m5bs. I realized this at the start, but decided to go with it,
So you knew you were breaking the FSO set up but went ahead with it anyway. That shows no class whatsoever. Hopefully the CM team will do the right thing after this admission of guilt.
Just so you know why I brought this issue up, revert back to the frame two whining from the Axis that cost the Allies 30 points.
If you live in a glass house..... you know the rest.
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:eek:
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Originally posted by DmdJJ
So you knew you were breaking the FSO set up but went ahead with it anyway. That shows no class whatsoever. Hopefully the CM team will do the right thing after this admission of guilt.
Just so you know why I brought this issue up, revert back to the frame two whining from the Axis that cost the Allies 30 points.
If you live in a glass house..... you know the rest.
Hmmmmmm....
I for one wasn't "whinning" at all.
1) I agree with you that to many A6M5's were upped....
2) Kermit was wrong...
3) As Kermit stated it was an ERROR and originally a TYPO not preconcieved
4) He SHOULD have corrected it
5) It's not really a big deal....
Now to me your arbitrary decision in frame two was more detrimental since its blatent freelancing. As someone else mentioned here they're was alot of "freelancing" in this FSO. I know in frame 3 we hit the cruiser fleet unapposed. One assigned squad got caught up en route (understandable) but the other apparently just decided it didnt want to.
You seem to be a pretty big hypocrite here? Kermit makes a typo and fails to correct his oversight and thats a bigger issue then you blatently disregarding orders for your squad because you just decide you have no chance to accomplish your mission:rofl
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Originally posted by humble
You seem to be a pretty big hypocrite here? Kermit makes a typo and fails to correct his oversight and thats a bigger issue then you blatently disregarding orders for your squad because you just decide you have no chance to accomplish your mission:rofl
Once again you run your mouth without any of the correct facts. I was ordered by my squad CO to drop ords and go into an offensive/defensive mode. I then returned to the CV to rearm, but hit the prop on the CV deck on takeoff. Can't fly without the fan in the front spinning.
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Let's just calm down. No need to get angry at anyone.
I've already been clear as to my thinking and cleared up any future rumors of squads flying whatever they want, which is untrue.
As stated before, I expect a penalty. If I were to have an agenda, it would probably be to make the final score NOT my number 1 priority. I'd like to believe it would be to follow the rules first and make sure each squad has a great chance at success in their mission and fun, without screwing over the opposing team.
I wrote the orders with the above intentions. If I had to recreate friday night again, I'd have had 5 less a6m5Bs only because more B5N's would have been needed. If I had to redo last week, I'd have proof read my orders before sending them out.
Joker, I did not know you were trying to reason with me. The post regard me having a "not good excuse" was nice. Then your next post was insulting. Just thought I'd let you know that.
I feel the lesson I need to learn is to make sure orders are proof read by another first. It was already talked about and decided amoung my squadmates on friday. Let's have some more respect around here on the FSO boards. I feel this problem has been identified, analyzed, and solved
Let's see what the CM's say...
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Originally posted by DmdJJ
Once again you run your mouth without any of the correct facts. I was ordered by my squad CO to drop ords and go into an offensive/defensive mode. I then returned to the CV to rearm, but hit the prop on the CV deck on takeoff. Can't fly without the fan in the front spinning.
And your squad CO aborted the mission on what authority. In the real world if that conduct didn't get you shot it would certainly draw permanent assignment to a DLM in the Aleutian Islands. I think the facts were posted very honestly...the CO felt that surprise was blown and he had little chance for success so he pickled his ords and went after the Kates. I also commented that in the real world its not unreasonable that the Fleet admiral might not order that...on the other hand if other planes are inbound and he takes hits then his only offensive option is your strike group. Historically strikes were pressed against tough odds and losses were historically high. While the decision wasn't illogical it was inappropriate to game play.
I'm fascinated that so much attention has been drawn to how many A6M5's were up in frame 2 or 3. To me there is little functional difference vs anything in the allied set (outside of the P-40). I do however readily acknowledge that the numbers were abused (for sure in frame 3) and that a violation clearly occured...I just question the impact. A pilot who feels that a "5" will serve him better then a "2" is already a dead man rolling.
From my perspective it was a great FSO to come back to and I'm looking forward to the next one. Plane type limitations should be adhered to and squads should fly the briefed mission profiles unless altered by the respective command authority on each side...just that simple.
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Alright you guys settle down. I don't mind some bickering and arguing in here from time to time, but this horse has been "flogged" so you guys let it go.
Yes there is going to be a penalty, Nef. will announce our decision soon.
Kermit, if you knew this was going to happen then you should have taken steps to prevent it in the final minutes before launch. But you all ready knew that.
DmdJJ, The Allies were penalized in frame 2 for NOT attacking a target in T+60 (not at all AAMOF). "Whining" had nothing to do with it. The CM Team does NOT make decisions based on what players are complaining about. Complaints only equal investigations, not decisions.
I suggest you guys put this energy into practice for the next event. You're going to need it.
;)
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I apologize for the delay.
Looking at the Axis Orders, It was seen that Raw Prawns were ordered to fly A6M5Bs but upon word from Kermit were to fly A6M2s. The fact that this was written in the orders is questionable, as enough A6M5Bs were slotted with other squads already.
The A6M5Bs went over and now we have a penalty for violating the maximum number of A6M5Bs. Upon discussion with SLED we came to the conclusion of subtracting the number of kills achieved by the Raw Prawns, and Shakenbake.
7 Kills totals for a total deduction of 50 Points
3 P-38G = 30
3 TBM-3 = 15
1 F4U-1 = 5
This brings the Final Score of Operation Cartwheel to:
ALLIED: 1755
AXIS: 1780
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Rawprawns CO infront of Military Courtmarshall after the war:
"But we were just following orders ..."
Reply from the Judges:
"Your records will be expunged, and all traces of your deeds removed from history!!"
RP's : "Nooooo ....."....lol
Just a note that while he did 'break' the rules, and is now being held by US MP's at an undisclosed location in the Pacific, Kermit did take the time to work out who hadn't flown the pick/better planes over Frames 1/2 and tried to give squads who had missed out a chance in frame 3.
So thank-you Kermit for being a thoughtful (but naughty) Frame Commander, an IJN Officer who really does think about his pilots well-being. (sniffle ... eyes all misting up).
Good fun and "hat's off" to fellow pilots, the various Frame CO's and the CM Team.
Finn
Raw Prawns
Mailroom Clerk
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Not that my opinion matters much, seeing as i have only flown in maybe 3 missions all together, i write orders regularly. I work in an operations cell in a MP Co. And mistakes do happen. In the translation from warning orders to battle plans to fragos, things happen. I think an error was made, the man responsible stood up an made himself souley accountable. The OIC made the punishment call, and a decission was made. I like to know that this was handeled properly through the FSO chain of command, and cant wait to fly the next scenerio
allies for the fight! axis for the flight!
(man i need spell check!)