Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: moot on August 23, 2007, 11:51:29 AM
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I do some consulting sort of work for this construction company. Most of the time I am at their central depot reworking their inventory management and other accounting aspects from scratch.
This yard's on a semi-wild piece of land, and there are a few stray dogs that stick around for the free roaming grounds and food scraps from the lunch and morning snack breaks.
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I've asked a few of the old timers, and they estimate the dobermans are 5 or 6 years old, the sheppard about 1 year old. One of them said these breeds of dogs have a disorder where the brain grows faster than the skull, making the dog's temper dicey.
I was thinking of adopting one of the dobe's, but having heard of Doberman's being a little dodgy by nature (turning on their owner for relatively little), and now this, I'm almost sure I won't after all.
The sheppard's lively, affective and easily spooked. One of the two dobermans' very calm, the other (the skinnier one) is a little on edge, obviously having some bad memories of humans; I fed him by hand once and although it was a first time feed and feed by hand, he nearly snapped my fingers with the piece of sausage. Granted, he's starving, but there's something about him I don't trust, unlike his brother.
So what's the verdict?
BTW, is it dogs or cats that have an aversion to chocolate?
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We've had several German Sheps, and when they are young they do act crazy. Mostly chewing stuff up. Never had a Doberman. Btw, dogs like chocolate, but it will kill them.
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I have heard the same about Dobermans as well. As I understand it, it really depends on thier lineage. Overbreeding to achieve a certain "look" has caused some problems with temperment etc.
The same has been said about Shepherds, although I have owned a few Shepherds (still have one, and he's a great dog...12 years old now) and not had any problems with temperment. In fact the ones I have had the pleasure of owning have all been spectacular dogs. Smart, loyal and very friendly. They do need to have attention payed to them though.
cheers,
RTR
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I've had dobies. You already saw there was a difference between the 2 there. Go for the calm and submissive one. The other probably could be saved, being fed does wonders for the attitude. It may taqke more time and effort than you want to invest however. If they are always together they might be difficult to separate causing the calm one to be more aggressive or destructive due to stress.
Dobies are kind of high strucng at times but the calm ones make dandy pets. Someone spent the $ to crop the ears and dock the tails. The ears weren't blocked properly causing them to flop.
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GSD's as adolescents are crazy...It's like having a 5 year old after drinking 100 bottles of coke! Awesome dogs, but let me warn you my friend...DO NOT LEAVE ANYTHING YOU DONT WANT CHEWED IN REACH OF THE DOG. They will chew it! Believe me!
have fun!
Be careful too!
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When I was a kid, my grandmother had a Doberman. That was one temperamental dog. My cousins and I would always have to keep one eye on the dog because you never know when she would turn on you.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who never have problems with them but I will never own one.
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Looked up dog bite statistics. German sherheds were pretty consistent at 3rd or 4th across various injury levels, etc. Dobermans didn't even get their own column, they ended up under "All Others". So if you're worried about getting bit, statistically, the Dobermans are safer.
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From dogbitelaw.com
* Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner or handler most often is responsible for making a dog into something dangerous.
* An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).
* Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be potentially dangerous. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack.
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I would take the German Shepard home, contact some Doberman rescues and get those two into a place where at least they'll be fed properly.
Why choose the shepard? Because of the idiotic steryotypes people have.
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Those dogs ought to be rescued or disposed of promptly. Used to have to shoot lots of strays and burn them a time ago.
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Thanks guys.
I looked around quickly and found no references to the brain disorder. I'll have to remember the formal name and look into it some more to be sure it's nothing.
Mav or anyone else, how much time and money would it take to reach deminishing returns with feeding and playing around with the dobes a bit during work breaks? I have between 6 months and a year ahead of me working there.
Rogwar, there's a stray dog epidemic over here. It's improved a little, but the odds are that they would not be bothered with since they haven't attacked anyone (plenty of dogs that do keep the pound busy), and the workers would probably prefer to keep them around. I'm pretty sure it'd be the case, but I'd rather not test my impression that if the pound did show up, the workers would pony up enough food to keep the dogs in respectable shape rather than see them go.
The work is pretty tough on the guys, and the dogs' company is part of the morale. It's a pretty tightly knit group, and I'm the FNG that mostly does paperwork in the airconditioned room while they sweat it out.. I can't just call in the dog pound :)
I can't see any easy way to feed one dog but not the other two. It'd be ideal because the cool tempered dobe is the one I'd get along with best... Feeding all three is the choice my conscience favors but is beyond what I'm willing to provide, and feeding two would leave one of the three out in the cold. I don't mind not feeding the more nervous dobe if it makes no difference to his behavior, but if the better dobe will make a good adoption only if they're kept together AND the worse one doesn't improve, then I'm not interested.
Feeding the shepard and the good dobe is the easiest compromise, but I'm pretty sure I won't get along with the shepard, so it'd be a waste.
Feeding only the good dobe is probably the shrewdest choice, but it seems selfish enough that I'd almost rather just not get involved than risk upseting the good dobe by separating them. They're together anytime I see them.
I guess I'll try and see if feeding only the good dobie is feasible. I do mean feed only him well, I'm not going to have the dogs see me feed him and give them nothing.
Any obvious flaws anywhere?
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A huge gigantic bag of dogfood isn't expensive. We used to buy 50 or 75lb bags of food for our dogs for $10 or $12. Our dogs were natural hunters though, and would eat wild rabbits in addition to dry food.
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I understand your position. It's just that they will continue to populate. Additional food just gives them more energy to do so. There's also the possible chance of rabies in the future.
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It really depends on the owner. A firm hand is needed(nothing abusive) and patience. They are great dogs with the right handler training them.
One other note, they are a high energy dog. I think some mistake that as to why they can be mean. If a dog with high energy doesn't get the exercise it needs it can then escilate into undesirable behavior. Basically a dog is a dog, it's how the owner handles it and meets the specific breeds needs.
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I don't know much specifically about Dobermans, but my family only adopts stray pets and shelter pets. I have quite a few friends who have adopted abused/neglected animals as well. The abused animals are tough, the neglected animals tend to be great!
Be great if you could adopt the nicer one. At 6 years old, I doubt there will be much personality change over the years. The only thing I'd worry about is the house/yard situation. Since he's had free roam of the yard there, might get stir crazy in your house or if you had a small yard.
Do you have other pets? One thing that occured to me is that the well fed dobie might be dominant and kick the skinny one of any scraps or kills. It would be interesting if you started feeding all three to see how they interact. Nothing brings out true personalities like the presence of food. I've been around some dogs that are really scary when their food bowl is on the floor. Hair standing up on back, growling when you walk near them. It would be a good test.
Let us know how it goes! :)
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I will never trust a doberman. My sister was mauled and almost killed by one when she was 4. The dog belonged to people down the street who babysat my sister for two years beginning when she was 2. She had played with the dog many times and it had never shown agression. The dog got out of it's yard and came down to our yard and for no known reason attacked her and would likely have killed her had not my brother been there to pull him off her. She had to have over 100 stiches in her forehead.
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I tend to agree that dogs will react according to how they were raised and how they have been treated in the world.
We had a registered Dobie when my girls were small. We raised him from weaning.
He was probably the most intelligent dog we will ever own.
He watched over the girls as if they were his.
Our old Rott (Louie) went to the land of many hydrants last year.
We are considering getting another Dobie.
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Moot,
The diminishing returns level can only be answered by you. As already pointed out, a bag of dogfood is pretty cheap and you can see how they react to being fed regularly pretty quick. Don't overfeed them and don't leave food laying around or you'll have other dogs or critters there in no time. Do have a source of water for them.
I like shepards too but I also understand that almost all of them suffer from hip displacia due to irresponsible breeding in the US. That's not to say the dobies may not have problems, just that it's not in the realm of certainty for them like it is in the shepard.
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Well, I've slept on it and the plan is to just figure out how much I have to feed the calm dobie to put him back in great health, give him that much, and feed the other two whatever I make with a few overtime hours's worth at work.
They always have about 10 gallons of water left for them in buckets.. no critters are around to pick into their bowls. Only a few sparrows sometime show up, and the shepard is plenty euphoric to keep them away for the short moments food is out in the open.
I'll post a few pics to see how the dogs' health improves as it does.
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An aggresive dog will always be an aggresive dog and a danger at that. Care must be taken to constantly keep an eye on it's stress levels and distract it when the signs show. Trouble is any breed can be produce aggressive dog.
That said - good friend of mine's on his second Doberman (first died of cancer), and they're loyal to a fault. Playful, affectionate & energetic. Best home defence invented.
If you have the land/time to give them the exercise they deserve, get them socialized with other dogs and humans you got yourself a great dog.
I love 'em.
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Originally posted by Flint
you are getting...sleepy....
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MYTH: When Dobermans grow older, their skulls stop growing but their brain doesn't. As their brain becomes larger as they grow, it puts pressure on the brain driving the Doberman insane and causing it to “turn” on its owner.
FACT:
Of course this is ridiculous. Doberman people merely shake their heads in wonderment at the total lunacy of these claims. When they are properly bred, raised, socialized, and trained, Dobermans will love, protect and often die for their families. This loyalty to his family is instinctive. It will develop naturally and you don’t have to do anything to develop it. Of course obedience training is a different matter and should be considered by all Doberman owners.
Just like any other dog, when the skull stops growing, so des the brain. If Dobermans routinely went insane and became vicious, nature would eventually target them for extinction. However, if you abuse any dog, a dog can, and probably should, turn on the person perpetrating the abuse. You would probably do the same if you were abused or threatened. Only a %^$%@*! abuses any animal and those who do, in my humble opinion, deserve what they get.
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A cousin had a Dobby that thought it was a cat, it walked along the top of a 6 foot fence with cats all the time. Was a riot.
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Nice connection Neubob and yes you're IN like Flint. I doubt though that this thread will be locked.
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Don't take any of them home, particularly if you have kids.
These breeds are fantastic if you get them as pups....less predictable as adults.
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Anyone who tells you Doby's are dodgy by nature is an outright idiot.
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Looks to me as ditched dogs.
They will look to the main feeding hand as a master, so don't play around, feed and be gentle, be calm and look them in the eye as if you were a border collie.
They could be great, no reason why not.
BTW, I have a bundle of dogs. The alltime favourite of my kids is a "runaway".
And Jackal, I'll sell you, or even give you a dog. Got a great mixture. What do you want your dog for anyway? Kids? Home protection? No hairs?
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Originally posted by Tumor
Anyone who tells you Doby's are dodgy by nature is an outright idiot.
Yeap. I've owned a few, been around many. Great breed of dog in my experience.
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A German shepherd who's unsure of himself (can you say vets office) or who's startled, is much more likely to bite. Once they trigger there is likely to be little or no warning whatsover. They go straight from being nice to going for your throat.
Most Doberman's are sweet creatures, who when needed can put on such an impressive threat display that they seldom actually need to bit. As a result they seldom do bite, and the give warning LONG before they feel threatened enough to bite. Thats the difference between the 2.
However, some Doberman's do seem to "flip out" for no discernible reason and just attack anything in sight. But while it does happen its quite rare.
My advice, leave the German Shepherd alone (walk softly around it) and take the mellow Doberman. I'm sure with love, food, and a secure environment it would do just fine.
If you do adopt one spend the money to have a vet give him a quick check.
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Buddy of mine had a Doberman he named Blaze.
That dog was the biggest *****cat I've ever seen,and I've owned lots of dogs.Take the mellow one to a vet,and see what they think.I'll bet he'd wind up a great pet,and friend.
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Originally posted by cav58d
GSD's as adolescents are crazy...It's like having a 5 year old after drinking 100 bottles of coke! Awesome dogs, but let me warn you my friend...DO NOT LEAVE ANYTHING YOU DONT WANT CHEWED IN REACH OF THE DOG. They will chew it! Believe me!
Dang, I thought it was just my dog in particular. Glad to hear it's 'normal.'
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Wife and I have always had a Doby since we got married... 5 total. 2 Black & Tan, 2 Reds, 1 White. Every one has been loving, loyal & playful (to a fault at times). We had trouble with the White. He was almost fully grown, not quite a year old. He nipped (and I do mean nip) this stupid neighbor chick of ours on the bellybutton when she walked into our house uninvited. Not a bite, no blood... as a matter of fact it looked like a scratch and didn't break the skin. This dog had an overly playful attitude and to him that "nip" was all play. He did the same thing to us, he'd run up, get ahold of your pants or whatever, then tear around the house running from you. SHE happened to be wearing a set of daisy dukes, so I'm certain wasn't going for skin and likely got some in the process. So anyway, stupid chick goes running off to the emergency room as though it was some major catastrophy, and the dog had to be quarantined at the local SPCA for 10 days. When he came home (with a clean report card) he would get very pissed off if you grabbed his collar....something he'd never done before. I called the moronic SPCA and sure enough, due to his size and an unfounded fear of the breed they had been using one of those stick-ropes on him to move him around. Eventually he bit my kid (9) on the arm as my kid was trying to pull him around by the collar, and that was the end of the dog, unfortunately (and due to some real idiots at the SPCA).
Point is.... treat a dog like crap and you shouldn't be suprised if he/she turns on you.
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It seems that many doberman owners defend the breed as agressively as the breed itself is perceived to be.
My wife owns two chihuahuas. They are probably a more agreesive breed than dobermans but I don't worry about them maiming or killing anyone. It always makes me both sad and angry when I hear of a child being attacked by a large dog. Sad for the suffering and loss of the child and angry at the irresponsible dog owner.