Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tango on August 23, 2007, 06:52:59 PM
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I'm at a lose of words as to why the B-25C was modeled and not the J. Its gonna be a collecting dustin a week.
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Because there was a need for an early war American medium bomber. The late war has the B-26B already.
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LOL! How bout thanks for thinking of the overall picture since the C/D was in service a lot longer then the J and with the H modeled you have essentially a J anyway unless you want the glass nose J.
The three birds modeled cover the widest timeframe of the war as well as the most varied use in MTO, PTO, ETO with the RAF, CBI and Russian Front.
I think it was a great choice to do those birds. The J was last on my list since the B25D Strafer was such a factor in the Pacific war. It was by far the more important B25 model in the Pacific.
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You got two versions, geesh, isnt two versions of cannon fodder enough for anyone?:rolleyes:
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I like to die in as many planes as posiible!
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Originally posted by SkyRock
You got two versions, geesh, isnt two versions of cannon fodder enough for anyone?:rolleyes:
The C is cannon fodder. At least the J has a defensive chance with a tail gunner. I won't be flying it again.
Just seems like a waste of time modeling a bomber that few [if any] players will fly. The P-39 would have had more use in game.
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Just seems like a waste of time modeling a bomber
Good thing you didn't waste Your time then, isn't it?
Perhaps it was modeled by people who Wanted to invest their time, good for them, darn fine job on what they Did do.
Imagine if they tried to address every whine, they would never get a thing done. For every Lack of C model complaint, you get a Pro J, or shoulda been a P39 with the inevitable P39 woulda sucked.
Good thing they just do what they want to do and put Something out.
I honestly cannot comprehend what drives people to complain about such trivial junk, I hope to God I never understand it.
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Originally posted by ROC
I honestly cannot comprehend what drives people to complain about such trivial junk, I hope to God I never understand it.
Agreed.
- oldman
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Originally posted by ROC
Good thing you didn't waste Your time then, isn't it?
Perhaps it was modeled by people who Wanted to invest their time, good for them, darn fine job on what they Did do.
Imagine if they tried to address every whine, they would never get a thing done. For every Lack of C model complaint, you get a Pro J, or shoulda been a P39 with the inevitable P39 woulda sucked.
Good thing they just do what they want to do and put Something out.
I honestly cannot comprehend what drives people to complain about such trivial junk, I hope to God I never understand it.
And seconded
Call for a vote?
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Originally posted by Tango
The C is cannon fodder. At least the J has a defensive chance with a tail gunner. I won't be flying it again.
Just seems like a waste of time modeling a bomber that few [if any] players will fly. The P-39 would have had more use in game.
So fly the H and quit whining. That and get some sense of the history of the 25 and you might appreciate what those guys did way back when.
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Well, lets see how many 25Cs will be flown in a week.
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Don't see the problem. Many fly this game because they enjoy the opportunity to fly virtual WW2 aircraft. By the train of thought that certain aircraft should not be created because they are "not as good" as later versions seems to defeat the purpose to begin with.
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Originally posted by Tango
Well, lets see how many 25Cs will be flown in a week.
Irrelevant really.
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I've got more kills with the defensive guns so far than I do with the forward firing. This is a pointless whine.
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Wow!!
Never saw this thread comin!!
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Originally posted by pluck
Don't see the problem. Many fly this game because they enjoy the opportunity to fly virtual WW2 aircraft. By the train of thought that certain aircraft should not be created because they are "not as good" as later versions seems to defeat the purpose to begin with.
What I'm saying is that the C model will hardly, if ever, be used. For events that are historical it might get some use, but not in the MA. With LA-7s all over the place, at least the J would have given a bomber pilot a fighting chance.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I've got more kills with the defensive guns so far than I do with the forward firing. This is a pointless whine.
Are you talking about the H model?
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Yes, of course.
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What is your in game name?
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Originally posted by Tango
What I'm saying is that the C model will hardly, if ever, be used. For events that are historical it might get some use, but not in the MA. With LA-7s all over the place, at least the J would have given a bomber pilot a fighting chance.
And what do you think you have in the H that you wouldn't have in a J?
You've got it and then some.
10 forward facing guns and a 75mm cannon. Tail gunner, waist gunners etc.
Are you whining that you don't have enough firepower?
What would a J give you that the H doesn't?
Could it be that the C and the early strafer version fit a heckuva lot better with snapshots and scenarios? Could it be that the MA is not the be all end all of Aces High?
Think Rabaul, Bismarck Sea, RAF over the channel in 43-44. North African campaign was C/Ds. I hate to break it to ya but WW2 wasn't fought only in the last half of 44 and 45.
You want to have a tail gunner fly the H and quit complaining about HTC looking beyond the MA and thinking of overall use in the game.
And of course Toad's Dad was a B25C/D Strafer pilot. So get over it. We want to cover Toad's Dad just once in the right bird :)
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I think the J model would have been better choice as a level bomber since it has the tail gun AND drones.
I'm not complaining about HTC. I came over from WW2OL and know what its like to get screwed around. Just ask anyone who flew in there. This is a great game but like I said I can't understand why the C model over the J as far as surviability.
The C has 1 set of guns on top which don't cover a low 6 attack. The J has a tail gun AND waist guns that can traverse to low six attacks. Sure we could fly the H model except for one important thing, it doesn't have drones or a bomb sight.
As for Toads Dad, I don't know who he is.
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Then take a bloody B-26B and get 1) more guns 2) more speed 3) more bombs.
We didn't need a bomber that filled exactly the same time and role as the B-26B, but a little worse.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Then take a bloody B-26B and get 1) more guns 2) more speed 3) more bombs.
We didn't need a bomber that filled exactly the same time and role as the B-26B, but a little worse.
Maybe you should look at what you posted again.
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So, any plane that isn't regularly used in the LW arenas has no place in the game? Only the best and brightest of the late war monsters should be here?
You are new, aren't you?
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Originally posted by Guppy35
And of course Toad's Dad was a B25C/D Strafer pilot. So get over it. We want to cover Toad's Dad just once in the right bird :)
Yep. We WILL do that too. :)
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Foolish man! The -H is a powerhouse of an attack plane! One 75mm and a good short squirt of 50cal and you kill a town building PDQ. 21 rounds is a lot of buildings, not even counting multiple buildings down from the bombs!!
The C is even sweeter! The WEP is nice, it climbs damn decent, even up to 20k it felt like it had power to spare (without bombs in the bay, I mean).
The C strafer model got me 2 kills and 3 assists tonight, all fighters, all dogfighting. Before that I got a few GV kills in an H (with bombs) before ripping my own wing off in a dive.
I wanted the J as much as the next man, but by cod the -C is so freaking sweet I don't mind! Hey, who wouldn't want 12x50cals?? But, let's not forget 8x50cals is no drop in the bucket to begin with, shall we?
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It is MHO that the B-26 is a far superior level bomber. It is also MHO, following the first (that I'm aware of) B-25 fighter sweep, that the B25 is more like a 110 than a B-26.
I'm happy to get anything new, and would love to see every plane that saw action eventually be added. However, The B-25s we have were not added whimsically, and they will be used in many different ways, both in the MAs and outside of them:
I see no point in complaining. It's more planes, and more options than we had before, and they're fun. What's to be unhappy about? :)
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Originally posted by ROC
Good thing you didn't waste Your time then, isn't it?
Perhaps it was modeled by people who Wanted to invest their time, good for them, darn fine job on what they Did do.
Imagine if they tried to address every whine, they would never get a thing done. For every Lack of C model complaint, you get a Pro J, or shoulda been a P39 with the inevitable P39 woulda sucked.
Good thing they just do what they want to do and put Something out.
I honestly cannot comprehend what drives people to complain about such trivial junk, I hope to God I never understand it.
Why don't you just disable all planes in the arenas except the L %ay-7 for all these whiners Roc??? :lol
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Why don't you just disable all planes in the arenas except the L %ay-7 for all these whiners Roc???
LOL what's the point? Then they would just whine that there wasn't anything to whine about!
:D
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... giving them something to whine about. The circle is complete. ;)
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The B25 will have practicle use, amongst us.
Will couple with B26 Firepower though, for V attack.
For LArge airfield implementation.
I await this weekend.
If someone says squeekend, I'll bomb you higher
B25 :aok
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Haven't been on in a few days..can the waist guns point straight back like the old AW model?
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Hub, have you tried the glass nosed C at alt?
It's WAY better than the B-26 above 10k. The 26 is a joke at even medium alts. I haven't flown the 25 enough to lose an engine yet (er... without losing the entire wing, I mean) but the B26 couldn't keep level with 1 engine out at 14k last time it happened to me. Just too weak above 9k.
The B-25 was going strong past 15, and only starting to get weak at 18k. 1k less ord, but much better performance. That makes up for it in my book!
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Nah, I'm always lower, where my prey lives. :)
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I feel that too many whines are generated from people that only fly the MA.
Due to this problem the MA will now be closed permanently.
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Krusty:
At least up to around 5000-7000ft the B-25H is VERY stable on one engine. I'm not so sure about how this compares to the C at altitude, but I think it's promising.
One general perception in the arenas: The 25 is a TANK. While I've flown 4 sorties and went down on two, one of them was to a 5" shell from a CV that clipped my wing, and the other case involved getting ganged by about 4-5 cannon-armed birds, and even then she STILL took a significant amount of fire from all of them before going TU.
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I had no problem cutting the wing off the first B-25 I saw, but I was in a Mossie.
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The B-25 flies amazingly well with one engine. I stopped the port engine in the TA and flew around for a while and then landed easily. It must be because the engines are so close to the fuselage but it doesn't pull at all, unlike the 38.
The H is going to be a lot of fun, much more fun than dogfighting the A-20. I can't wait to hear the screams of outrage from LA7 HO'ers when they get vaporized by the 75 mm from 2k out on their HO run. That gun is a laser.
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I can't believe they put in the C model but didn't put in the D.
Ridiculous. And shameful.
Hehe, gotcha. This is a joke. I know they're the same. Zing!
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Originally posted by scottydawg
The H is going to be a lot of fun, much more fun than dogfighting the A-20. I can't wait to hear the screams of outrage from LA7 HO'ers when they get vaporized by the 75 mm from 2k out on their HO run. That gun is a laser.
Yup, the H is fun, but I doubt the C will get much use in game. The J would get more use.
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Originally posted by Tango
Yup, the H is fun, but I doubt the C will get much use in game. The J would get more use.
Oh it will, in about 2 months when the FSO CMs finish the scenarios they're writing for it.
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Originally posted by scottydawg
The B-25 flies amazingly well with one engine. I stopped the port engine in the TA and flew around for a while and then landed easily. It must be because the engines are so close to the fuselage but it doesn't pull at all, unlike the 38.
The H is going to be a lot of fun, much more fun than dogfighting the A-20. I can't wait to hear the screams of outrage from LA7 HO'ers when they get vaporized by the 75 mm from 2k out on their HO run. That gun is a laser.
If you were going to dog fight in the Mitchell, the C is the far better choice. The H feels very nose heavy when maneuvering, especially when looping.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Tango
Yup, the H is fun, but I doubt the C will get much use in game. The J would get more use.
So what.
They put a lot of stuff in that won't get much use. Why have anything other than the La-7, Spitfire Mk XVI, B-24J and Firefly VC? After all, nothing else is used as much...
So, new criteria, if a unit won't exceed the useage of one of those then it shouldn't be added.
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Originally posted by Tango
Well, lets see how many 25Cs will be flown in a week.
I'm sure it'll be used by hundreds of people in scenarios and other events for years to come. :)
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
If you were going to dog fight in the Mitchell, the C is the far better choice. The H feels very nose heavy when maneuvering, especially when looping.
ack-ack
I dunno, the forward gun package on the C is pretty weak.
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Originally posted by scottydawg
I dunno, the forward gun package on the C is pretty weak.
I wouldn't call 8 x .50cals "pretty weak"...
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Originally posted by SkyRock
You got two versions, geesh, isnt two versions of cannon fodder enough for anyone?:rolleyes:
Yup, flew it a few sortee. Once I took a formation of C up at 20K and destroyed 1 hangar before a gaggle of mossie made short work of me. Then I flew the H and tried to bomb in it bit could not hit squat before an LTAR's hungry osti got me, the only ray or sunshine was I did manage to kill a P38 and dog fight him. That was the only good time I had in the new cannon fo.... I mean new bomber.
I will say that the C model would be a little less insufferable if HTC included the retractable ventral turret that it did have because mecanical failure is not modelled in AHII. As it stands right now you can just approach a 25C from any low angle you want and get a nice easy kill.
However I will say that in FSO and senarios this plane fills a HUGE gap and is a great addition to the line up of planes. I also would probably use it to good effect in the MWA and EWA.
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Originally posted by Lusche
I wouldn't call 8 x .50cals "pretty weak"...
You know what? I didn't really look at the available packages on the C, all I saw was the glassnose. Just looked at them. You're right. Whoever thinks the C is a puddytat is dead wrong.
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Originally posted by DaddyAck
As it stands right now you can just approach a 25C from any low angle you want and get a nice easy kill.
Thats the point I was trying to make.
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Originally posted by Tango
Thats the point I was trying to make.
You do know that there are scenario events in this game, right? And that theres a midwar arena? And that theres an Axis vs Allies arena? Anyway, why shouldnt someone fly a B25C in LW? Its more of a challenge, sorta like the people who fly P40's, Emils, Hurri 1's, etc....
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Originally posted by Motherland
You do know that there are scenario events in this game, right? And that theres a midwar arena? And that theres an Axis vs Allies arena? Anyway, why shouldnt someone fly a B25C in LW? Its more of a challenge, sorta like the people who fly P40's, Emils, Hurri 1's, etc....
Whoa yeah I look forward to all teh new FSO and senario possabilities. :aok
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Yes I know that, I fly early and mid war models alot and in the other arenas as well [when theres enough people in them] but as Scotty said, its "a nice easy kill".