Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on August 26, 2007, 03:07:16 AM
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link (http://iraqforsale.org/)
Just watched this Robert Greenwald documentary. It outlines the abuses by KBR, CACI, Titan and other contractors to run up the tab and profiteer on the Iraq war.
Testemonials from soldiers, employees and their survivors raise some pretty serious questions about abuses such as burning brand new equiptment and supplies because they were misshipped under a cost plus contract. Replacing entire trucks instead of changing the oil. Water that was knowingly unsafe was given to troops without warning and employees fired when they tried to alert the troops to the danger.
Hopefully someone will be held accountable.
http://iraqforsale.org/trailer.php
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just watched it too.
word.
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Yea I watched it before.. makes yea sick that these guys get away with that BS. It still continues today, check the post I made about "where the missing gun went".
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were you guys born that way or is it learned behavior?
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which way is that oh articulate one?
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I'm not a cartographer so I can't draw you a map. sorry :D
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Originally posted by storch
I'm not a cartographer so I can't draw you a map. sorry :D
perhaps this will help... (http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/h/d/ex/home)
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It isn't true until someone makes a movie about it. You just don't get any more sober or objective than hollywood.
What were some of the facts that really stuck out in your mind? I bet you were even more shocked when you checked out their sources too.
lazs
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It makes me sick seeing people make money and fame off these conspiracy theory "so-called" documentaries.
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It's even better when you check their sources (on the website).
It's a sad commentary that these types of films are resonating.. no objectivity and pretense of any. pure propoganda.
I don't know how much of the film is true or even if any of it is true but the blatant agenda and lack of anything more than emotion pretty much makes it a non watcher for me.
This is simply a movie.. it is comfort for those who feel the same as the lefties who made it and it is an indoctrinization film for the terminally stupid.
lazs
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lol
Tell us all about the GW Swindle documentary again lazs. You know...the one that is absolutely correct and scientific.
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Originally posted by JB88
perhaps this will help... (http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/h/d/ex/home)
in turn you and your minions should try this (http://www.getacluetheatre.com/) :D I think your photo is simply marvelous :D
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I was waiting for you to bring that up. I think that it was also propoganda and that it was... after all... a movie.
If it had anything going for it tho was that it was the opposite of what some of these lefty ones are... it mostly let the scientists in the field talk.. it was more like what a documentary should be... I bet you can see the difference.
simply look at the sources as sited on the "for sale" website or peruse the sites debunking michelle moors crap and fakery and then look at who was being interviewed in the global warming hoax.
I have not changed my mind... a movie is not how we should get our opinions on things..
there are some very distinct and important differences tho.... the hoax documentary was a rebuttal to albores movie and a lot of false science running around in the media..
I would watch a movie debunking some other drama passed off as popular opinion any day. especially if it was done as well with as many real scientists and with as much humor.
I don't know if anyone changed their mind after hoax but I bet more people did research after it to see if it was true.. we have a long running global warming thread that would most likely simply be one that talked about how much money to send albore to reduce our carbon footprint..
no debate... no info..
lazs
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lol
Dance monkey..dance.
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Originally posted by Curval
lol
Dance monkey..dance.
isn't that a carlos santana song? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm0tcsjKMmU)
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blah blah blah...women drivers...blah blah blah...straw man arguement...blah blah blah...
maybe if you werent such a...blah blah blah...it amazes me how you always...
blah blah blah...my rights are being trampled...blah blah blah...el camino.
(bow)
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Originally posted by Curval
lol
Tell us all about the GW Swindle documentary again lazs. You know...the one that is absolutely correct and scientific.
Their aren't any because George Bush is Jesus Christ and the Republican party is the Holy Church for him.. they see no evil, talk no evil and hear no evil.
It's only provable if it's a Democrat..
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""author Peter Schweizer uncover IRS documents showing that Michael Moore's very own foundation has bought stocks in some of America's largest corporations – including Halliburton, other defense contractors and some of the same companies he has attacked""
damm war profiteers.:furious
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...and the Bush administration said, "Dance Monkey.. Dance!"
and many danced without even asking why!!
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Lazs: It's a bunch of malarkey. Bush would'nt let them steal from us. I'm ignoring you, LALALALALALALALALALALALALALAL ALA!
KBR: I like that Lazs guy.
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Definitely one-sided there. While I'm not going to speak as to what other companies do/don't do, and action that the military should/would take/not take as a result, I will say:
I work for a company that supplies contractors overseas. From the very bottom rung all the way up to the top rung the #1 priority of all the employees is to make sure that those soldiers get taken care of properly in every way possible.
What was shown is certainly NOT the rule, but is the exception.
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Originally posted by texasmom
Definitely one-sided there. While I'm not going to speak as to what other companies do/don't do, and action that the military should/would take/not take as a result, I will say:
I work for a company that supplies contractors overseas. From the very bottom rung all the way up to the top rung the #1 priority of all the employees is to make sure that those soldiers get taken care of properly in every way possible.
What was shown is certainly NOT the rule, but is the exception.
Texmom, what goes on would be kept hush-hush, You certainly would not hear about it in a company lunchroom stateside.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Texmom, what goes on would be kept hush-hush, You certainly would not hear about it in a company lunchroom stateside.
I'm not in a position to need to hear lunchroom gossip. Why would you assume that I wouldn't be in a position to know the truth?
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Originally posted by texasmom
I'm not in a position to need to hear lunchroom gossip. Why would you assume that I wouldn't be in a position to know the truth?
Great answer TexasMom!! :aok
Word.
Mark
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Nobody is saying the employees on the ground are not trying to do the best job they can. The employees on the ground are in the same position, if not worse than the troops.
They are saying the executives are bilking the system for every nickle they can, a/k/a/ fox guarding the henhouse.
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Originally posted by rpm
Nobody is saying the employees on the ground are not trying to do the best job they can. The employees on the ground are in the same position, if not worse than the troops.
They are saying the executives are bilking the system for every nickle they can, a/k/a/ fox guarding the henhouse.
Which is precisely why I said "From the very bottom rung all the way up to the top rung..."
meaning: "From the very bottom rung all the way up to the top rung..."
(*edit: added back in the quote from rpm)
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Mom, all I can say is I heard several employees say different and saw a lot of examples, including giving Marines completely unsafe water with no warnings.
I don't doubt you and your fellow employees did the best job you could. Watch the film, it's going to be shown again next weekend. I'd really like to hear your take on what they say.
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Originally posted by rpm
Mom, all I can say is I heard several employees say different and saw a lot of examples, including giving Marines completely unsafe water with no warnings.
I don't doubt you and your fellow employees did the best job you could. Watch the film, it's going to be shown again next weekend. I'd really like to hear your take on what they say.
We're still there, by the way. Our awesome employees are still taking care of our soldiers & do a damn fine job.
I *cringe* may have to purchase the dvd to watch it. I cancel our cable down to the basics each year when school starts (& turn it back up to full throttle once summer hits again). Either way, I'll watch the full show instead of just the promo clip.
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I bet it's on YouTube somewhere.
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here it is. (http://tv-links.co.uk/listings/9/5684)
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I watched about five minutes of that sappy "documentary" which is about as much as I could stomach.
people who join the armed services do so with the implicit understanding that they may go in harm's way and they may not return. the contractors that select to go into a war zone know they aren't going to resort. those contractors are well remunerated, commensurate with their level of risk in the particular job they do, training and experience. for some of these guys it's all they know and they are willing to accept the same level of risks they accepted from uncle sugar work but for many times more money.
naturally, some of the parents and the loved ones of those that fall will be bitter and look to blame or lash out at the gubment but I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of those same people understand that their loved one died doing something they wanted to do and accept the fact that we are all mortal and one day must die. these contractors rolled the dice and lost, they paid with their lives but they knew the stakes going into the game. they are no less heroic than the grunt who gets killed for doing his duty as private.
what is cheap is the reaction of the families and worse the exploitation of these emotions by people like robert greenwald. if there is a slimey war profiteer it's people of this ilk and supporters of his work like you hand wringing apologists for everything that is wrong with america.
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if you had watched more than 5 minutes of it you might have a more accurate synopsis of what it was about.
but i suppose we should be happy that you tried...and made it that far.
...must have been hell.
;)
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LOL... texasmom... it is on cable. It is pretty bad. If what it said was true ever soldier over there would be dead.. no food or arms.
The republican party is not my party.. I vote for em tho to make sure democrats don't get in. bush is not my pres but... what choice did I have?
I am sure that there is a grain of truth to the documentary. I can't imagine that some skimming does not happen.... IT ALWAYS DOES. Every thing the government touches.. republican or democrat.
I bet that with the amounts we are spending it is proportional tho...
I think that like so many lefty "documentaries" it hurts itself by being so far out... Watching it is like listening to a lefty.... He starts out with something he thinks will shock you... you nod your head and smile... he doesn't see the shock and indignation that he wants so he says something even more outrageous... you look a little skeptical so... he starts to act a little agitated and tells a bigger story for "proof"... you say.."I don't know about that..." and he get's angry and the whoppers really start flying along with the name calling and spittle.
liberals always start out slow and with a smile but if they don't get their way they go further and further into anger and exaggeration. That is exactly how the movie unfolds for me. A cheap copy of the michelle moore technique.
lazs
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why do birds suddenly appear..........
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Especially the interview with KBR employees saying they tried desperately to warn the Marines about unsafe water but were sent home instead. Yeah, that's all lefty B.S. Just because 28 out of 32 plants were putting out bad water why should they gripe? They are Marines, what do they need pure water for? They are in the desert for cripes sake, suck it up like Lazs would if he was there.
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every time you are near........
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resisting...urge...to....sing gggg...
mmmrrrrrrnnnnnnggggghhhhhhh!!!!
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just like me, they long to be........
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Originally posted by storch
were you guys born that way or is it learned behavior?
or in your case..hatched :D
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rpm... please link me to a story that was done on the bad water. How many marines got sick or died from this bad water? where is the story?
I would follow the links from the "documentary" site but they are laughable. Did you look at any of it?
Think about it... we have a media that is thirsting for some dirt on iraq... any bad news is smeared all over the tube for weeks and yet...
All this horror is going on....high level whistle blowers can't get an interview on CNN? LOL..
Hell... if half the stuff was true the liberal weenies and hand wringers in our media would have been smearing it all over every news station in the country..
Yet... here... all compacted into one amazing documentary is everything the democrats would need to have every republican rounded up and shot...
How could they have been so blind these liberal media types?
lazs
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did you watch it lasz or are you just discrediting it right off hand on the merits of the website? can you be more specific as to which sources are bunk?
i provided the link for you in case you'd like to actually sit down and watch it.
no need to thank me.
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Originally posted by JB88
did you watch it lasz or are you just discrediting it right off hand on the merits of the website? can you be more specific as to which sources are bunk?
i provided the link for you in case you'd like to actually sit down and watch it.
no need to thank me.
Have you ever read any of his posts in the past.. Even if you provided him with a linkage, he would come up with some other excuse as to why it's not real proof.
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Originally posted by lazs2
rpm... please link me to a story that was done on the bad water. How many marines got sick or died from this bad water? where is the story?
I would follow the links from the "documentary" site but they are laughable. Did you look at any of it?
Think about it... we have a media that is thirsting for some dirt on iraq... any bad news is smeared all over the tube for weeks and yet...
All this horror is going on....high level whistle blowers can't get an interview on CNN? LOL..
Hell... if half the stuff was true the liberal weenies and hand wringers in our media would have been smearing it all over every news station in the country..
Yet... here... all compacted into one amazing documentary is everything the democrats would need to have every republican rounded up and shot...
How could they have been so blind these liberal media types?
lazs
Lazs, if you will just watch the film, it will give you all the info you ask. I am not your personal R & D Dept.
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Originally posted by storch
I watched about five minutes of that sappy "documentary" which is about as much as I could stomach.
people who join the armed services do so with the implicit understanding that they may go in harm's way and they may not return. the contractors that select to go into a war zone know they aren't going to resort. those contractors are well remunerated, commensurate with their level of risk in the particular job they do, training and experience. for some of these guys it's all they know and they are willing to accept the same level of risks they accepted from uncle sugar work but for many times more money.
naturally, some of the parents and the loved ones of those that fall will be bitter and look to blame or lash out at the gubment but I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of those same people understand that their loved one died doing something they wanted to do and accept the fact that we are all mortal and one day must die. these contractors rolled the dice and lost, they paid with their lives but they knew the stakes going into the game. they are no less heroic than the grunt who gets killed for doing his duty as private.
what is cheap is the reaction of the families and worse the exploitation of these emotions by people like robert greenwald. if there is a slimey war profiteer it's people of this ilk and supporters of his work like you hand wringing apologists for everything that is wrong with america.
Storch I'll agree with you and say that the beginning of this documentary is poorly done IMO. The first time I watched it, I thought it would easily give doubters an easy out.
Ignore the family stuff at the start and watch the full documentary, about half way through they start getting into the good stuff. Meaning non family members and actual employees of the various contractors.
I made a post about this documentary on this forum a while back.. it is worth the watch and IMO should be watched. There is a lot of BS going on over there and these companies are making millions on the back of our soldiers.
My post on the subject http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209990&highlight=iraq+sale
You can also see the vid on the site in my sig.. http://www.welched.com
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the libbys are crawling out from under the rocks, it must be ELECTION TIME.
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thanks for the link jb... I did watch some of it on cable and it was terrible. The more I watched the more I felt used.
I went to your link tho thinking there might be some links to stories about some of the earth shaking things I had seen that somehow had escaped anyone else.
They are laughable.. the reason I wanted to see the links is because... I like to get both sides. There was no other side... in fact... the other side didn't even know they were being accused in most cases.
The way it works is... you say something and link a source... I see it comes from some far left or right corner of the internet and... either ignore it or.. if it is interesting enough... I google the subject and get another side... usually the opposite one...
I go with the side that makes the most compelling case and seems the most documented. This thing doesn't even try.
To me.. it is like saying the twin towers were not hit with airliners... you can't hardly find anyone denying it cause... who would think it was a serious contention in the first place.
I asked RPM in case he was familiar with some poisoning of marines with bad water... that would be news... I would love to hear both sides of such a story.
I am certainly not gonna go on what one man said with nothing else to go on.
lazs
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Did ya bother to read the links on the film site? Ya know like the Senate hearings?
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Here Lazs, how would a Senate report do for you? Be careful, they use big words and no pikchures.
http://democrats.senate.gov/dpc/hearings/hearing30/kbr.pdf (http://democrats.senate.gov/dpc/hearings/hearing30/kbr.pdf)
(hint: it's from the films website links)
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is this the gonzalas thread?
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rpm... comeon now... be honest...
Ya got to admit that the hearings that they quote are simply democrat withhunts that never have a resolution... no real charges are levied and no real proof is offered.. the players in the hearings read like a who's who of liberal democrat war protesters.
The link to hearings is telling. It pretty much shows who is pulling the strings on this...
All the links go to the same democrat site. Nothing was ever resolved or proven in any of em... no further study was done or even called for.
None of the other "research" sites is even mildly legit. Just links to the same people making the same claims. Claims so weird that they never even made it on the radar of the lefty media.
I will continue to dig tho cause this one is pretty fun.
I did watch "my war diary" on the military channel tho yesterday... very refreshing... vids from the soldiers themselves... None seemed too put out by the horrors described...
A breath of fresh air..
lazs
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Originally posted by crockett
Have you ever read any of his posts in the past.. Even if you provided him with a linkage, he would come up with some other excuse as to why it's not real proof.
Originally posted by lazs2
rpm... comeon now... be honest...
Ya got to admit that the hearings that they quote are simply democrat withhunts that never have a resolution... no real charges are levied and no real proof is offered.. the players in the hearings read like a who's who of liberal democrat war protesters.
The link to hearings is telling. It pretty much shows who is pulling the strings on this...
All the links go to the same democrat site. Nothing was ever resolved or proven in any of em... no further study was done or even called for.
None of the other "research" sites is even mildly legit. Just links to the same people making the same claims. Claims so weird that they never even made it on the radar of the lefty media.
I will continue to dig tho cause this one is pretty fun.
I did watch "my war diary" on the military channel tho yesterday... very refreshing... vids from the soldiers themselves... None seemed too put out by the horrors described...
A breath of fresh air..
lazs
Wow, Crockett nailed it.
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A bird with a heavy right wing flies in a circle.....
.....and never gets anywhere!!
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Originally posted by crockett
Storch I'll agree with you and say that the beginning of this documentary is poorly done IMO. The first time I watched it, I thought it would easily give doubters an easy out.
Ignore the family stuff at the start and watch the full documentary, about half way through they start getting into the good stuff. Meaning non family members and actual employees of the various contractors.
I made a post about this documentary on this forum a while back.. it is worth the watch and IMO should be watched. There is a lot of BS going on over there and these companies are making millions on the back of our soldiers.
My post on the subject http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209990&highlight=iraq+sale
You can also see the vid on the site in my sig.. http://www.welched.com
you know what, tomorrow morning instead of running for an hour I'll sit through that crapumentary on the weight of your suggestion alone.
then I'll think it's pure pooh and rip you a new one on this here BBS.
:D
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Originally posted by storch
you know what, tomorrow morning instead of running for an hour I'll sit through that crapumentary on the weight of your suggestion alone.
then I'll think it's pure pooh and rip you a new one on this here BBS.
:D
fair enough :aok
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Can't ask for more than that.
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dudes, I got through twenty eight minutes of this tripe. I'm going to run now. If I find that limey bassturd somewhere I'm going to beat twenty eight minutes out of his face and ribs.
to be fair though I don't watch right wing crapumentaries either.
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wuss.
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All the contractors I've ever had to work with here in Iraq put one thing at the top of their list as to why they are here... money. Greed is their motivation plain and simple, I watched that stupid movie a couple weeks after I got here. If you found this dribble to be 'insightful' I've got a few more 'must see' videos for you simple minded folks. Here... start with this one (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Hm2BdCbZkKY)...
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Originally posted by VWE
All the contractors I've ever had to work with here in Iraq put one thing at the top of their list as to why they are here... money. Greed is their motivation plain and simple, I watched that stupid movie a couple weeks after I got here. If you found this dribble to be 'insightful' I've got a few more 'must see' videos for you simple minded folks. Here... start with this one (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Hm2BdCbZkKY)...
You know some folks will never believe this because it doesn't suit their agenda. ;)
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this is kind of funny... swagger talks about flying on only a right wing but man....
look at the sources for the "research" in this hoax... reads like a who's who in the left wing faction of the democratic party and bloggers.
the left wing owns the movie and documentary industry... and why not? lots of raw emotion and soundbites. for emotional women who like to feel everything and not think...
I bet no one that watched the movie could repeat the charges it made word for word. who cares? it was just for shock value.
Hell... the thing is so insignificant that no one is even bothering to debunk it. I googled the thing and all I got was a few places that sell the dvd and a myriad of high pitched shrieking lefty sites.... laughable.
So how many companies were found guilty by the democrats in that hearing? none?
Like I said tho... I have no doubt that there is profiteering in every war and every government contract ever written. I just don't think that this documentary anything but a left wing hatchet job full of emotion and exaggeration.
lets just say that I want to hear it from some other source than this film... the film is not much more honest than the lefty blogs it uses for reference.
I understand the thinking on the left tho... they are really angry about talk radio and their failure to plug into that facet of pop media. movies don't work cause if the have too subtle a message no one gets it and if it is too blatant no one goes to the film so... "documentaries" just like a book but no reading is involved and you can get the whole thing over in an hour or two... better yet... people don't really recall what you said so much as the overall feeling... if they want to check something they have to buy another ticket.
lazs
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I would rather watch reports that are striving to be unbiased and accurate.
It would be very stupid to think that a couple of those big companies aren't intentionally milking the system. I always hate to hear about it even though it's not really news because many americans apparently could care less. I think if the public viewed it for what it is, maybe some would get mad enough to pressure authorites to pursue convictions. Sad thing is rarely if ever are there any convictions on such crimes. I do believe that anyone found milking the government should be punished as common thieves just as any other citizen would be. I mean if someone gets caught taking a stapler home from the mailroom, they would get fired, but some of these folks are milking millions and will never get punished.
I wish we could see the truth, like who is actually making the money. It would be awesome to see them thrown in a prison somewhere and treated for what they are.........robbers and thieves.
SkyRock<----hates thieves, by the way!:aok
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I agree but find it is almost impossible to ever get reports on anything that are unbiased.
Sooo... what I look for is both sides of the story. The one with the most compelling evidence that can be checked out is the one that I give the most credence to. If I hear only one side and it is sensational and... up till then.. not even on the radar...
I like to wait to see the opposing view.
In this case.... no one is even bothering to debunk it.. no one seems to care at all... the only people who care seem to be the worst of the democrats and the far left on the internet and they all agree....
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
this hoax...
lazs
I could care less about left/right wings and political parties, if someone is stealing, they should be prosecuted!!!! There is no doubt that adminstrations always have their thieves, but everyone wants to make it into a political battle when it should clearly be about prosecuting the law!
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Originally posted by lazs2
I agree but find it is almost impossible to ever get reports on anything that are unbiased.
Sooo... what I look for is both sides of the story. The one with the most compelling evidence that can be checked out is the one that I give the most credence to. If I hear only one side and it is sensational and... up till then.. not even on the radar...
I like to wait to see the opposing view.
In this case.... no one is even bothering to debunk it.. no one seems to care at all... the only people who care seem to be the worst of the democrats and the far left on the internet and they all agree....
lazs
Sorry Larz I've read enough of your posts to know you never look at things from both sides of the argument. It's the side you pick and nothing more.
The perfect example, is how this is entirely a non partisan issue as it effects ALL Americans. Yet you want to write it off as a whiny liberals on the internet.
No one tries to debunk it, because we know it's true, we all know this stuff goes on and has been going on. Just like when big tobacco tried to tell everyone cigarettes were healthy..
A perfect example of why you will never get "both" side of the argument unless the govt forces the issue.
Look at the history of big tobacco, they outright lied to congress under oath in congressional hearings. Everyone knew they were lying, the medical industry sure as hell knew, the govt knew.. Yet they sat right their and lied under oath and everyone knew it.
The guy whom outed them, was someone whom was fired by them. Some would try to say that , oh we shouldn't believe him, because he had a score to settle because he was fired. However history taught us that guy was the best informant the govt could have ever wished for. Yet guys like you would try to write him off because he was fired.
So now we have ex-employees coming forward and telling us what is going on with these companies and you want to ignore it because who knows why. First you will tell us that it's BS on the internet.. Then if the govt got involved you would tell us it's whiny democrats with an agenda.
Tell me Larz what's it take to get your stamp of approval? Does it have to come from the Republicans mouth? Does Jesus have to say it's true? What's it take?
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I could care less about left/right wings and political parties, if someone is stealing, they should be prosecuted!!!! There is no doubt that adminstrations always have their thieves, but everyone wants to make it into a political battle when it should clearly be about prosecuting the law!
Exactlly this is as far from a right/left issue as you can get. The issue is are our troops getting the best that money can buy in reguards to services and are the American people getting ripped off.
This is about tax payers dollars.
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speaking of big tobacco...lasz has always kind of reminded me of that guy from the movie "thank you for smoking"
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I have the best weapons, armour, and supplies... I've wanted for nothing since I've been here. I have the best of everything possible, that has never been as issue. So unless you've been here and have personal knowledge to the contrary stop speculating.
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Originally posted by VWE
I have the best weapons, armour, and supplies... I've wanted for nothing since I've been here. I have the best of everything possible, that has never been as issue. So unless you've been here and have personal knowledge to the contrary stop speculating.
but whining is the democrat SOP as they have no substance to bring to the table
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<---- not a democrat.
not a fan of the current level of immersion of civilian contractors with my tax dollars.
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crocket.. I think you are in a kettle/pot mode... I have never seen you take the side of any event unless it had the karl marx stamp of approval.
I am simply saying that there is only one side being shown.. it is not that everyone knows it is true... all of your lefty friends want it to be true and most believe that everything in it is true but that doesn't make it so...
The fact that.... so far... there is no discussion doesn't mean it is stone cold fact... it simply means that the documentary is so out there that it is under the radar.
I would love to see any contractor who cheats the government caught and prosecuted.
I am not sure that I have seen any proof that what the documentary says is true. That it is not grossly exaggerated. I do find that left wing documentaries.... so far... are all... every single one... full of exaggeration and drama and outright lies... that the lefty mantra is alive and well in them "the end justifies the means" is how they work.
The soldiers I have talked to seem to live in a different world than what the democrats on the hill and the lefties in the blogs think they do.
lazs
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Originally posted by JB88
not a fan of the current level of immersion of civilian contractors with my tax dollars.
show me a war that was not
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Originally posted by Eagler
show me a war that was not
You aren't serious are you?
There has never been a war in history of our country, that has had so much of it contracted out to businesses. Whom profit by the very war's existence.
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Originally posted by VWE
I have the best weapons, armour, and supplies... I've wanted for nothing since I've been here. I have the best of everything possible, that has never been as issue. So unless you've been here and have personal knowledge to the contrary stop speculating.
It was an issue at the start, but that's mute point now. Many of our soldiers didn't get armored hummers or body armor.
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Originally posted by lazs2
It's a sad commentary that these types of films are resonating.. no objectivity and pretense of any. pure propoganda.
lazs
Well considering the Iraq war was based on false propaganda..i'd say it's entirely appropriate.
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I still didn't go watch that whole thing (problem is finding more than 2 minutes at a time to sit in front of the computer).
But ya know... I think that VWE is one of maybe 5 folks on the boards that y'all really shouldn't be arguing your point with. It's not like y'all will be convincing him of anything
(you from the comfort of your homes vs. him from Iraq)
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Originally posted by VWE
I have the best weapons, armour, and supplies... I've wanted for nothing since I've been here. I have the best of everything possible, that has never been as issue. So unless you've been here and have personal knowledge to the contrary stop speculating.
VWE, first I'd like to thank you for your service, and pose a question to you. I do not believe that anyone is trying to not give our soldiers the best materials needed to fight, but I would ask you this question. Do you think that the big companies over there are bilking american tax dollars with overcharging of their services? Also, do you know of any services that make you think that such occurances are taking place?
I don't like the politics of the question but am interested in whether the american people are getting shafted by those in charge.
Mark
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Originally posted by lazs2
rpm... please link me to a story that was done on the bad water. How many marines got sick or died from this bad water? where is the story?
I would follow the links from the "documentary" site but they are laughable. Did you look at any of it?
Think about it... we have a media that is thirsting for some dirt on iraq... any bad news is smeared all over the tube for weeks and yet...
All this horror is going on....high level whistle blowers can't get an interview on CNN? LOL..
Hell... if half the stuff was true the liberal weenies and hand wringers in our media would have been smearing it all over every news station in the country..
Yet... here... all compacted into one amazing documentary is everything the democrats would need to have every republican rounded up and shot...
How could they have been so blind these liberal media types?
lazs
Workers Allege Halliburton Knew Their Water Was Foul (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/22/AR2006012200853.html)
Doctor alleges water linked to infections (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/biz/3780160.html)
Halliburton accused of 'contract abuse' in Iraq (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2005/06/28/1401946.htm)
Republicans kill amendment to investigate Halliburton contract abuse; pledge hearings in December (http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/ensign.html)
FBI interviews Halliburton whistleblower (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6356265/)
Halliburton says employees got kickbacks on Iraq work (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/01/24/halliburton_says_employees_got_kickbacks_on_iraq_work/)
ack-ack
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Originally posted by texasmom
But ya know... I think that VWE is one of maybe 5 folks on the boards that y'all really shouldn't be arguing your point with. It's not like y'all will be convincing him of anything
(you from the comfort of your homes vs. him from Iraq)
So would these guys in this documentary that was aired on the Discovery Times Channel. They didn't really have any nice things to say about KBR or other civilian contracting companies.
Off to War (http://times.discovery.com/convergence/offtowar/offtowar.html)
[laz'sreply]Oh wait, never mind these guys don't know what they're talking about, being from Clinton's home state and all, must be liberal whackos.[/laz'sreply]
ack-ack
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Originally posted by crockett
It was an issue at the start, but that's mute point now. Many of our soldiers didn't get armored hummers or body armor.
how many times do i have to tell you, the hummer was not designed as a armored fighting vehicle and only combat troops got body armor, not cooks, clerks, etc.
when i was in the military my jeep not only did not have armor it did not even have doors.
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Why not just be happy with what we got now, next thing you know we will have it better or worse next President we have and their will still be lots of whining babys!
I didnt bother to read through all the nonsense of forums but I know there are a whole lot of whining babys who cry about every President we have.
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Originally posted by john9001
how many times do i have to tell you, the hummer was not designed as a armored fighting vehicle and only combat troops got body armor, not cooks, clerks, etc.
when i was in the military my jeep not only did not have armor it did not even have doors.
uphill...both ways...in a blizzard...barefoot!!!
;)
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Originally posted by john9001
how many times do i have to tell you, the hummer was not designed as a armored fighting vehicle and only combat troops got body armor, not cooks, clerks, etc.
when i was in the military my jeep not only did not have armor it did not even have doors.
Then explain why Nation Guard combat units were shipped out without adequate body armor and in a lot of cases had to buy their own?
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Then explain why Nation Guard combat units were shipped out without adequate body armor and in a lot of cases had to buy their own?
ack-ack
clinton budget cuts.
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(slaps forhead)
:huh
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Originally posted by crockett
You aren't serious are you?
There has never been a war in history of our country, that has had so much of it contracted out to businesses. Whom profit by the very war's existence.
I would bet the reconstruction of Japan and Germany after WW2 experienced the identical scenario - the difference being the media wasn't allowed to slander the office of the President in those days with conspiracy theories as they are today.
Gov waste is EVERYWHERE.
Why would it not be in war?
The main reason government should be as small as possible as it is as efficient as Ted Kennedy trying to stay on the wagon. Why should it be, it isn't spending any of its money, it is spending yours the dems want you to pay more of.
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didnt clinton work towards reigning in deficit spending and balancing the budget?
:confused:
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Originally posted by JB88
uphill...both ways...in a blizzard...barefoot!!!
;)
apparently with a metal plate in his head.. :D
btw that's just a funny don't get bent
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tune in tokyo!
(static sound)
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Originally posted by rpm
Nobody is saying the employees on the ground are not trying to do the best job they can. The employees on the ground are in the same position, if not worse than the troops.
They are saying the executives are bilking the system for every nickle they can, a/k/a/ fox guarding the henhouse.
Yea exactlly.. This isn't about the guys on the ground no mattter if they are soldiers or contractors.
I'm sure the guys on the ground are giving it their best no matter what they have to work with. Aolso I don't blame anyone for going over there as a contractor, in fact I know a few guys that are there now or have been there.
The issue is with the guys at the top of the food chain.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
VWE, first I'd like to thank you for your service, and pose a question to you. I do not believe that anyone is trying to not give our soldiers the best materials needed to fight, but I would ask you this question. Do you think that the big companies over there are bilking american tax dollars with overcharging of their services? Also, do you know of any services that make you think that such occurances are taking place?
I don't like the politics of the question but am interested in whether the american people are getting shafted by those in charge.
Mark
Yes, and yes... I see waiste and abuse every day and it makes me sick. That being said I don't dwell upon it because I do not have that luxury. What I'm doing here is serious business, my life and the lives of those soldiers under my direction depend on maintaining my focus and not to be distracted.
There is nothing wrong with discussing what is going on but too often I read this stuff posted by someone wearing blinders taking what they are reading or watching as pure fact. They have an agenda, this or that fits that agenda so lets put it out there as the holy grail.
OBA's (outer body armour) and OTV's (outer tactical vests) did not exist in the quantity needed, you can't pull this stuff out of thin air it has to be manufactured. And just because some company says I have x amount just sitting here doesn't mean they are the best for my situation. Up armoured Humvees you don't see state side because they get retrofitted in Quwait, hence when they leave country its removed. Nothing happens overnight, that being said I've never... never been placed in a situation that I wasn't 100% sure I didn't have the best available protection period.
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ack ack... the articles do not match the accusation of the documentary... the soldiers had bottled water to drink and used the other for washing up.. it should have been treated.. I couldn't find any of the lab results ( I do know a little about water)
coliform hits happen in your towns water... hate to break it to you. Your water supply is only tested completely yearly in most cases. twice the normal contamination would be.... nothing in most cases.
I asked how many had died or gotten sick.. the article did answer (by ommission) the deaths.... zero..zip... nada.. some soldiers got sick... maybe from the water... certainly not the water they were given to drink tho.
lazs
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crocket... the hummers were not armored? you do know what the hummer is right? it is a newer version of the jeep.... it replaced the jeep.. it's role was to get people around in and not as a combat vehicle...it's role has morphed and so has the vehicle... soldiers laugh at your accusation.. they knew that the thing was never meant to be an armored car.
might as well chide the government for not just putting everyone in apv's I don't think the soldiers would like being locked up in an oven every time they went off the base.
lazs
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and lastly... jb...
"speaking of big tobacco...lasz has always kind of reminded me of that guy from the movie "thank you for smoking""
seen the movie... thought it was great.. I will take it as a compliment. I kind of look at you as one of the emotional talk show guests he slaughtered.
Fact is..anyone who wants to smoke can so far as I am concerned. There should be no money train punitive tax on em. Too many people worried about what others do.
It should be illegal to tell a private business they can't allow smoking. It is hard for me to believe that we have been manipulated so easily and gave up our rights so easily.
Oh... I used to smoke 3 packs of unfiltered camels a day... did it for decades... Hate the things now... haven't smoked in 17 years. No desire to and...
I probly would not go to a resteraunt that allowed smoking.
lazs