Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: FX1 on August 27, 2007, 04:21:09 PM
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Does having your engine sound turned down or your tank tread turned down ethical??
Does this give you a better advantage than those that do have their sound turned all the way up?
Is this something that HT need to address?
Is this a exploit of the game?
Do you turn down your sound?
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i dont think its an exploit. i turn them down and yes it helps to hear tanks coming in a little sooner then normal but not by much. i manly turn them down to hear vox alot better i teach this to all my squadies due to the loud tread sounds and jeeps and m3s are the worst.
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Originally posted by kilz
i dont think its an exploit. i turn them down and yes it helps to hear tanks coming in a little sooner then normal but not by much. i manly turn them down to hear vox alot better i teach this to all my squadies due to the loud tread sounds and jeeps and m3s are the worst.
i think it does or should, when recieving incoming VOX, mute or turn down
GV/plane sounds.
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Originally posted by FX1
Does having your engine sound turned down or your tank tread turned down ethical??
Does this give you a better advantage than those that do have their sound turned all the way up?
Is this something that HT need to address?
Is this a exploit of the game?
yes
yes
no
no
:aok
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I think the further you turn your sounds down, all other sounds should scale to that.
That way no one can gain an advantage.
Bronk
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You can tweak the vox "effect" slider to lower background sounds during vox.
I don't consider it an exploit. Sometimes the sounds are too loud to hear yourself think. Since you can't hear "more" until you turn your engine off, I don't see a problem.
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Intersting question. Don't think it could be qualified as an exploit seeings how the settings allow you to change it to your liking. Though I think having it at some form of base level as to make it a bit more realistic would be something I would favor. That said, I don't know how far away who could hear other planes, tanks...and if some vehicles where easier to hear out of....or make less noise on approach. I have a feeling that everything was loud and it would be unlikely that you would hear a plane closing on or 6.....or a panzer approaching while your vehicle running at full tilt.
The only advantage I see, as it relates to planes, is that if someone has the volume up, they may not hear you approaching....Though SA should go a long way to remedy this issue.
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Here is something that is doubly dumb:
"Is this a exploit of the game?"
Well, first of all, when using the article, "a", it's actually spelled "an" when it precedes a noun starting with a vowel.
Your use of the noun, "exploit" gives us the sense that you are off on some adventure. You probably meant, "exploitation."
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Maybe we should specify that a bit more.
This question originated from a thread where someone ;) said he is flying without any engine sounds:
"Also i dont have my engine sound turned on. I can listen and tell were a con is without looking at my 6
(...)
That's one of the first trick i teach people is to turn your engine sound off and turn exterior sounds up 100%"
"Ethical" is a far to heavy word, but I say it's gamey. Very gamey.
Next opinion please. :)
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dam english teachers always giving people watermelon hehehehe:D
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Thank shaw I will take notes...
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I think it is gamey but don't see it as too much of an advantage. The way I see it, if your SA is so bad you need to turn your engine sound off, you're not a threat 1 on 1, therefore if you hear me coming I don't have to worry about you once you break, it just delays the inevitable.
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Originally posted by Raptor
I think it is gamey but don't see it as too much of an advantage. The way I see it, if your SA is so bad you need to turn your engine sound off, you're not a threat 1 on 1, therefore if you hear me coming I don't have to worry about you once you break, it just delays the inevitable.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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Originally posted by TEShaw
Here is something that is doubly dumb:
"Is this a exploit of the game?"
Well, first of all, when using the article, "a", it's actually spelled "an" when it precedes a noun starting with a vowel.
Your use of the noun, "exploit" gives us the sense that you are off on some adventure. You probably meant, "exploitation."
My wife is a school teacher, but fortunately I don't get this kind of ***** at home. If I did, I would probably play AH a lot more.
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Originally posted by TEShaw
Your use of the noun, "exploit" gives us the sense that you are off on some adventure. You probably meant, "exploitation."
Exploit, as used, is a gamer colloquialism. Would you have corrected him had he used "pwn"?
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If turning down 1 sound would adjust all the other sounds to the same level, we'd be right back at square one. Some sounds are too loud; some too soft.
I myself do turn down my engine, now I don't shut it off, i just turn it down.. the constant hum of the engine gets rather annoying when trying to listen to vox.
Now is this something that should be addressed by HTC? Absolutely not. I think we have more important issues than someone turning their sound down that needs to be addressed. Maps, planes, actual bugs, etc etc etc.
This by no means is an advantage.
But since you asked the beginning questions FX, let me ask you this one..
what in sam h*ll brought this up? lol
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Originally posted by Bronk
I think the further you turn your sounds down, all other sounds should scale to that.
That way no one can gain an advantage.
Bronk
HiTech has mentioned something like that regarding engine sounds...
Originally posted by hitech
Had never thought of that, Might just change the way sound volumn is done so your volumn and there volumn is the same.
And yes, I turn my internal engine sound down to about 30%.
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If someone sucks so bad that they think this will give them some kind of an edge over others well,.... in the long run they'll still really suck bad and it won't be an edge at all. ;)
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Turning off the Plane engine sound only allows to hear radio chatter better and less likely to hear someone on your six, but you sometimes can hear another plane coming in on you, if you have a sound pack installed it works really well.
Now in a vehicle, heck yea turn down the sounds.Turn down the wheel noise, the external track noise, and the engine noise to better hear tanks creepin up on you.The only downside is you can be sitting in a defensive position with other GV'ers at a base or a town and they ask you too turn off your engine and it takes a second to realize they are talking to you.
As far as it being a exploit of the game, i call BS just because the person calling it that didn't think of it first, and if HTC didn't want us to be able to turn down the sounds he would not have gave us the power to do so.
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Originally posted by PK1Mw
But since you asked the beginning questions FX, let me ask you this one..
what in sam h*ll brought this up? lol
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=212333
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Well for one I've done this for years. Sorry but I sat on a tractor for enough years that I have permanent hearing damage already. I really don't need to listen to the drone of that engine through my headset and make it worse.
Gaming the game, perhaps, but advantage gained is not offensive, its more defensive in nature. It doesn't help me shoot anyone else down, however it might help keep me from being shot down as often. However good SA is a better too by far. And if it is gaming the game, its one HT gave us the controls for.
Hiding in a windmill so you can shoot without fear of reprisal is IMO a vastly worse offense. Hardly even in the same ballpark.
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Originally posted by Murdr
And yes, I turn my internal engine sound down to about 30%.
I do the same. All sounds are at 100% with the exception of the internal engine sound which I have set at 45%. It's not so I can hear other planes around me better but so I can hear my flaps as I use them otherwise the internal engine sound drowns them out.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by SkyRock
yes
yes
no
no
:aok
Agreed. It's readily available to all via a player input control.
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Well, if they just made all the engine sounds lower at the same time, both yours and theirs, it wouldn't be an issue at all. Those that don't want the loud engine noise could reduce it without gaining a tactical benefit. From a purist mindset, obviously it gives you an advantage the real pilots didn't have. I'll give it a try and see what I think afterwards.
I don't think its unethical--too strong of a word--but gamey. Just like turning up gamma during night fights.
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Not sure how adjusting anything that you are allowed to on your clipboard settings could be considered gamey. That's what it is there for. Just my opinion. I keep my engine sound around 50%, all other sounds at 80-100%.
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Originally posted by FX1
Does having your engine sound turned down or your tank tread turned down ethical??
Does this give you a better advantage than those that do have their sound turned all the way up?
Is this something that HT need to address?
Is this a exploit of the game?
Do you turn down your sound?
i turn mine down, but find i only hear the enemy a little bit sooner....if i'm REALLY trying to hear them, i find a good secure hiding place and shut down.
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Originally posted by Stoney74
Well, if they just made all the engine sounds lower at the same time, both yours and theirs, it wouldn't be an issue at all. Those that don't want the loud engine noise could reduce it without gaining a tactical benefit. From a purist mindset, obviously it gives you an advantage the real pilots didn't have. I'll give it a try and see what I think afterwards.
I don't think its unethical--too strong of a word--but gamey. Just like turning up gamma during night fights.
I don't see how I get any sort of tactical benefit with having my internal engine sound turned down. The only benefit I've only gotten from it is that I can hear my flaps when I use them.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Well for one I've done this for years. Sorry but I sat on a tractor for enough years that I have permanent hearing damage already. I really don't need to listen to the drone of that engine through my headset and make it worse.
Gaming the game, perhaps, but advantage gained is not offensive, its more defensive in nature. It doesn't help me shoot anyone else down, however it might help keep me from being shot down as often. However good SA is a better too by far. And if it is gaming the game, its one HT gave us the controls for.
Hiding in a windmill so you can shoot without fear of reprisal is IMO a vastly worse offense. Hardly even in the same ballpark.
same here. in between welder/generators running at full to keep up with the demands of the job or being on an auger/excavator the last thing I need to hear another diesel in cartoonoville.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I don't see how I get any sort of tactical benefit with having my internal engine sound turned down. The only benefit I've only gotten from it is that I can hear my flaps when I use them.
ack-ack
If you turn your own engine sound completely down, you can quite precicely determine the position of enemy cons outside your view, especially in furball situations.
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I roll with engine,tracks, ect at a big fat "0" always have. External sounds set to "100%".. U only have an advantage if the other player does not adjust their sounds.
I orig. just turned it down so i could hear vox. When your playing cat and mouse it makes a huge differance.
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Originally posted by Lusche
If you turn your own engine sound completely down, you can quite precicely determine the position of enemy cons outside your view, especially in furball situations.
But I can already pretty much accurately determine the position with the surround sound system I have.
I just don't see how having engine sound turned all the way down will give someone such an advantage that they'll win the fight. *shrug*
ack-ack
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If you have to game your sounds to have an advantage in SA, you probably suck anyway.
I do turn my engine sound down a bit to hear vox. All the way up half the people come in too quiet to hear.
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Originally posted by Dm6
U only have an advantage if the other player does not adjust their sounds.
How so?
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I have some of the GV sounds turned down or off simply because they are annoying.
One of them is turning off the tread sound. Drives me crazy so I just turned it off completely.
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I turn all my inside cockpit sounds down. That way I can turn my overall volume up to hear Vox better.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I don't see how I get any sort of tactical benefit with having my internal engine sound turned down. The only benefit I've only gotten from it is that I can hear my flaps when I use them.
Two words: Throttle Work.
With your engine sound off, you can detect the variations in his throttle a whole lot more. I'd imagine it *would* probably help in certain situations.
That being said, I don't particularly care. I turn mine down in the 40% range for many of the same reasons already stated here. I don't have any particular problem with anyone turning their's down even more. It's not a game breaking advantage and the way I fight doesn't rely primarily on throttle work, anyway.
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I tried it out tonight, and it makes a world of difference to me. You never have to worry about someone sneaking up on you--so you don't have to look behind you until you hear an engine.
Clever for sure. But gamey, IMHO--and that's all it is, my opinion. Its your $15.
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FX,
I dont think it's "cheating" persay. It does give you an advantage but only a slight one. Usually, by the time you hear the guy attacking you have maybe 4 seconds to find out where he is and how close. If your not jinking about, which you should be, then more than likely your hosed or at least gonna get banged up. So the advantage is SLIGHT. If you have propper SA, which you do, you'll see the guy Waaayy before you hear him. As far as GV's go, well most people turn the engines off anyways so whats the point.
Is it "ethical" to do so? Any pilot that enters a fray on equal terms isnt flying right. Whether it's coming in with Altitude or Speed, both are still an advantage. So Ethics just dont fit in the situation. You fly to fight and you fight to win.
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i think turning engine sound to 0% is very gamey, and 'cheating' really.
i think turning engine sound down to 30% or something to make it easier to hear vox or external sounds is gamey but fair enough as anyone can do it.
I play with all sounds at 80%, i cannot hear enenmy aircraft unless they are as close as 500yrds.
are you a gamer or simmer? thats the point i think. i respect a 'simmer' alot more than a 'gamer' in aceshigh.
Gamers just want to win.
Simmers just want to fly.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
....snip
are you a gamer or simmer? thats the point i think. i respect a 'simmer' alot more than a 'gamer' in aceshigh.
Gamers just want to win.
Simmers just want to fly.
I think BatFink has it right here. To a simmer, turning your engine/tracks sounds to 0 is gamy, to a gamer, its "how you play", because "everyones doing it" :D
I just got a good headset with 8 speaker surround sound, and I'm amazed at what I can now hear. I can even tell were the ack puffs are exploding around my plane without looking.
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I use views to tell where enemy are!!!
I do not care what the other fellla does, turn all teh sounds down, it still doesn't change ownage!:aok
:noid
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another point is do you like a challenge?
after many years playing here i feel like i have a certain ability that many new guys do not have. therefore i like to make it a challenge.
fly in lower than enemy
fly weaker aircraft
'give your tail' to start a fight
etc etc
for me, there is no feeling of acomplishment if i spend 30 mins in a tempest or spit16 without losing my advantage. In real life, sure, i would be a fool to enter an uneven fight, my life would be the price. here, not so.
if you are a vet of the game you should be doing everything in your power to make the game more challenging, not flying the best aircraft at high altitude and always 'winning'.
thats just how i see it anyhow.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
another point is do you like a challenge?
after many years playing here i feel like i have a certain ability that many new guys do not have. therefore i like to make it a challenge.
fly in lower than enemy
fly weaker aircraft
'give your tail' to start a fight
etc etc
for me, there is no feeling of acomplishment if i spend 30 mins in a tempest or spit16 without losing my advantage. In real life, sure, i would be a fool to enter an uneven fight, my life would be the price. here, not so.
if you are a vet of the game you should be doing everything in your power to make the game more challenging, not flying the best aircraft at high altitude and always 'winning'.
thats just how i see it anyhow.
I disagree with the above statements. I've found its much easier to show someone the "error of their ways" by meeting them in their own planes. For instance, if a lot of laffies show up in my area. I jump in a laffie and hunt only laffies. If there's a buncha 16's floating around I get in one of those and hunt them. Eventually they will get the idea that it's not the plane but the pilot that's killing them. At that point they begin to think about learning more about the game and work toward getting better and not just flying something they think may keep them alive a lil longer. There was a time, along time ago when we'd get up in some beater plane and shoot everyone down. What do you think happened then? They'd all get up in a beater because..."darn, it got me so it must be a good plane". Eventually they got the idea and learned.
High alt and showing tail is old news. Just about anyone whose flown for a while doesn't care about alt and shows tail to get a lot off timid pilots to fight.
Ref sounds...if only one guy can do it and the rest can't then it's not right. If everyone has the ability to do it then they have the opportunity and make the choice to mess with sounds or not. If they chose to fine. If they chose not to thats fine also.
Ren
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YES it is gaming the game! In 1942 a panzer commander could not turn down the DIN of war!! Nor could he alter his graphic detail to spot tanks in far away bush!! The sound and graphic alterations are lame, and if you do it you SUK!!:rofl
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Originally posted by FX1
Does having your engine sound turned down or your tank tread turned down ethical??
Does this give you a better advantage than those that do have their sound turned all the way up?
Is this something that HT need to address?
Is this a exploit of the game?
Do you turn down your sound?
Well, what is the right setting for it? I turn it down because it is annoying. If in a 262 for example, I cant hear VOX. In a fighter, I don't have time to look to see if the flaps are going up or down. I need the sound to tell. I don't fly some planes because I cant hear the flaps. Anyway, you get my point. I don't think it has anything to do with being ethical.
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
High alt and showing tail is old news. Just about anyone whose flown for a while doesn't care about alt and shows tail to get a lot off timid pilots to fight.
didnt say it was new news.
just my opinion, and thanks for sharing yours.
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
Ref sounds...if only one guy can do it and the rest can't then it's not right. If everyone has the ability to do it then they have the opportunity and make the choice to mess with sounds or not. If they chose to fine. If they chose not to thats fine also.
Blah, they are many choices in this game, that doesn't make it 'fine' though.
HOing, running for ack, 10 vs 1, spawn camping, trash talkin, turning engine sounds off, you name it.
All of the above are matter of choice and it's up to you if you chose to play that way.
It is also up to us to call those guys 'gamey dweebs', 'noobs' or any other name we chose to.
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I think:
Adjusting sounds for your own personal comfort is freaking common sense.
Turning sounds off is gamey.
I agree with Ren that doing something available to everyone is not an exploit.
I agree with bighorn that the community reserves the right to call it as we see it when others choose to go to extremes with available options.
Just sayin.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
, trash talkin,
Whoa whoa now pahtnah!!!!! :aok
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I have my engine sounds turned down a bit. Somewhere around 30-40% I believe. I do it simply because I don't need the endless, meaningless RRRRRRROOOOOOOOAAAAAAARRRRRRR RRRRRR!!!!! of my engine pounded into my skull.
I keep my "wind" , guns, and "stall buffet" etc turned up high so I don't end up with any real advantage based on sound. When I would stand to gain the most from hearing external sounds (low, slow, turn fighting) the stall buffet (wind-type) sounds drown out any external sounds. Like others have mentioned, I look out the window to find the bad guys.
When folks chat on vox my other sounds all drop away, and all I can hear is the vox. So that is not the issue.
Nobody has mentioned the obvious difference between the engine sounds in game vs real life. In RL, the pilots wore headsets to minimize the external sounds, and maximize VOX sound. They still do. In game, we wear headsets to pump ALL sounds in. So when it comes to headsets and engine noise our game is OPPOSITE of RL. RL= headset keeps sound OUT. AH= headset pumps sound IN.
Wearing a headset is my only option when it comes to AH. My family doesn't need to listen while I play.
I think that if HTC changes the way sounds volumes are adjusted, they should make ALL EXTERNAL sounds dim right along with the players EXTERNAL sounds. Your engine would block out or mask external sounds anyway. We don't need to be able to hear them by turning our engines down. What advantage is gained by hearing ack popping, or bombs dropping, or richochetting bullets anyway?
MtnMan
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I think HTC should set the parameters of gameplay so that everyone plays equally by the same constraints. Thats just me, but I do realize its just a game.
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Yeager: We do already, you have the option to modify your setting just like everyone else.
Changing how the slider works would not fix a thing, you could just modify the sound file itself to be a lot softer.
We could then change sounds so they could not be player modified at all, but I do not think anyone wishes that.
We could get rid of external sounds, but I do not believe anyone once that.
But the real fact is , in my mind it really is not much of an issue, choose what you like the best, a possible little advantage from hearing external stuff, or the extra immersion that comes from having your own engine sounds.
HiTech
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I never thought of it as a problem. Tell you the truth I thought everyone had their engine noise turned off.
Its a interesting topic for our community to discuss.
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I only gv with sounds down..
FX1 was the origianl question specificaly about gvs or gvs and aircraft.
Never had a vox prob in aircraft.
I dont think u can successfully acm with sounds truned off. the advatages of hearing your own plane outway any you would get from turnning them off
Donzo. If u in a gv and both players have the sound setting the same there is "NO" advantage.
How would you have an advantage if both player have the exact same settings?
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Originally posted by mtnman
I keep my "wind" , guns, and "stall buffet" etc turned up high so I don't end up with any real advantage based on sound. When I would stand to gain the most from hearing external sounds (low, slow, turn fighting) the stall buffet (wind-type) sounds drown out any external sounds. Like others have mentioned, I look out the window to find the bad guys.
MtnMan
Actually, if you are suckering a guy into an overshoot and you know his planes roll rate begins to suffer at 300 mph you have an advantage because you know your wind noise begins getting noisy at 300 mph yet your planes roll is not affected at that speed. Without having to look away from the guy to check instruments you know, from the sounds, it's time to reverse and force the overshoot.
Perhaps it's one of the more subtle nuances of the game that you haven't experienced that actually adds another dimension to game play.There are many such nuances that might define the diffence between vets and newer folks???
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Originally posted by shreck
YES it is gaming the game! In 1942 a panzer commander could not turn down the DIN of war!! Nor could he alter his graphic detail to spot tanks in far away bush!! The sound and graphic alterations are lame, and if you do it you SUK!!:rofl
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Originally posted by shreck
YES it is gaming the game! In 1942 a panzer commander could not turn down the DIN of war!! Nor could he alter his graphic detail to spot tanks in far away bush!! The sound and graphic alterations are lame, and if you do it you SUK!!:rofl
So if u use zoom u suk? Were exactly is the Zoom key in a "real" aircraft.
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Originally posted by Dm6
So if u use zoom u suk? Were exactly is the Zoom key in a "real" aircraft.
And do you view the "real" world in pixels ?
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As close as this "game" gets to a sim is HTC's flight models.
Its not a WW2 flight sim its a game with ww2 tanks and aircraft with sim flight models.
u guys are thinking of combat tour. that has not come out yet.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
And do you view the "real" world in pixels ?
Nice try Slap your "re-frame" won't work on me.
u JUST
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Your reply just proves that its a game.
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It seems to me that slap was supporting your point, not arguing with it?
Also,
Originally posted by hitech
...You assume AH was ment to simulate WWII, it has never attempeted to do so in the main. Nore has it ever been the goal to do so.
There is a drastic diffence between simlating WWII Aircraft and a simulation of WWII.
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HT I hear what your saying...and I have no doubt that your position is the correct one. However, I just think if your engine is on, its on. Equivalent volume should be there for everyone. Maybe Im wrong, a fuddy duddy perhaps.....I enjoy the game anyway.
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I would bet most of the panzers in the hedge rows of Normandy shut their engine off as they waited to fire.
Is there a difference?
Ren
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
I would bet most of the panzers in the hedge rows of Normandy shut their engine off as they waited to fire.
Is there a difference?
Yes.
They did not turn their engine sounds off while driving.
And I do believe that pilots hadn't that option either ;)
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If Im not mistaken they drove to a point of ambush in the hedgerows, shut down the engines and waited in clever concealment. That was the point I was trying to get across. Sorry you missed it. :) And in that there is no difference between this game and what actually occured.
Ren
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
If Im not mistaken they drove to a point of ambush in the hedgerows, shut down the engines and waited in clever concealment. That was the point I was trying to get across. Sorry you missed it. :) And in that there is no difference between this game and what actually occured.
Ren
Im not sure if it's not you who missed the point. ;) The discussion did not start about sitting in ambush with your engine off - It's about eleminating your engine sounds completely to gain a advantage while the engine is still running, especially in (but not restricted to) planes.
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My vote is...gamey...but I really dont care either way. Mine is at default I believe...may of turned down some to hear vox...but it is still dang loud.
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the last thing a tanker, or any other intelligent combatant would do is turn his power off, thereby disabling himself intentionally in battle. Ive seen alot of players turn their engines off/on at certain instances in dogfights, apparently to gain some sort of angles advantage. Im seriously doubting that any combat pilot intentionally turned his engine on and off to cut some 3D corner in air combat. If there is a recorded instance of it ,I would love to read it.