Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Tiger on August 29, 2007, 01:48:14 PM

Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Tiger on August 29, 2007, 01:48:14 PM
I know the way collisions are coded in this game is kinda odd.  Is it possible to intentionally ram someone to knock them outta the sky?

I just ask because one of my bombers was rammed the other night.  Of course no damage was done to said person and he attempted to roll over through the formation again.
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Krusty on August 29, 2007, 02:05:23 PM
It's nearly impossible unless you HO. The truth is you never know where the enemy "really is" so you can't intentionally ram 'em. You can try to guess, but really, it was an accident. HE probably didn't ram you on his end, if he took no damage.

I've done that before, where I make a close call (I don't ram, but it was close) and due to lag my lag position and the bombers' on their end passed through each other. I don't take damage, but the bomber might (hard to tell sometimes). On my end I didn't intend to ram, and didn't try to, but on the other end I did.

So, no, there's no real way to "intentionally ram" somebody. Just too hard to predict when/where to do it.
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: hammer on August 29, 2007, 02:11:12 PM
If the individual knew his own variance and your variance, it is theoretically possible to know how close he could get to you to cause you to have a collision while avoiding one himself. However, since the distance counter is in increments of 200yds, it would still be nearly impossible to get it right.

As always, what happened is a collision (appearing to you as a ram) occurred on your front end while the planes missed each other on your opponent's front end. To him, it appeared that he made a successful pass.

Here is an explanation of what happened (http://www.netaces.org/lag/lag.htm).

Regards,

Hammer
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: dedalos on August 29, 2007, 03:06:48 PM
It is possible.  You can try it but you may end up being the one going down.  In case of buffs it may be a little easer since they fly straight.  You can try crossing in front of his nose as close as you can and hope that in his FE he is further ahead than where you see him and force the collision.

Now that I think about it, you can do that with his tail too.  Get in formation and get as close as you can.

Not as easy as it sounds though.  The guns will eat you alive before you get anywhere near the buffs any way and if you try at high speed you maybe the one paying the price.
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Krusty on August 29, 2007, 03:12:49 PM
Doesn't work with the tail. You will always see him AFTER he's already left his current position. You try it on his tail, you'll ram but he won't (his FE will already have moved forward, and your position will lag on his end, you'll just fall out of the sky on his view).
Title: Re: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 29, 2007, 03:41:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tiger
I know the way collisions are coded in this game is kinda odd.  Is it possible to intentionally ram someone to knock them outta the sky?

I just ask because one of my bombers was rammed the other night.  Of course no damage was done to said person and he attempted to roll over through the formation again.



I don't think the person intentionally tried to ram you.  There is an issue with shooting down bomber formations.  If you shoot down the manned bomber and the pilot jumps to a drone, that drone will warp into formation with the remaining drone.  If you're the attacking fighter, sometimes the drone warps right into your flight path without anything you can do to avoid it.


ack-ack
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: evenhaim on August 29, 2007, 08:46:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Doesn't work with the tail. You will always see him AFTER he's already left his current position. You try it on his tail, you'll ram but he won't (his FE will already have moved forward, and your position will lag on his end, you'll just fall out of the sky on his view).


then how come n7 rammed me like 10 times literally in 1 hour every sortie he rammed me trying to bnz me and all 10 times i deid and he got away unharmed?
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: E25280 on August 29, 2007, 11:21:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by evenhaim
then how come n7 rammed me like 10 times literally in 1 hour every sortie he rammed me trying to bnz me and all 10 times i deid and he got away unharmed?
Bad luck.

Get out of his way, and the problem is solved.
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Bronk on August 30, 2007, 04:49:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by evenhaim
then how come n7 rammed me like 10 times literally in 1 hour every sortie he rammed me trying to bnz me and all 10 times i deid and he got away unharmed?


Film?????


Bronk
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Latrobe on August 30, 2007, 05:07:09 AM
Twice I've had accidental air collisions. The first one I can barley remember, but just the other night I was rtb in my spit and saw a friendly was in trouble. There was a 109K4 on his six, and they were in a turn fight. I went in to shoot the 109 and missed, so I looped around, came level, and lost sight of the 109 for a second. I looked right and saw a glimps of him as he flew in front of me and head-on. It was pretty funny, I flew straight and level, and he turned and somehow we collided:lol  . I just had to laugh.
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: dedalos on August 30, 2007, 10:17:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Doesn't work with the tail. You will always see him AFTER he's already left his current position. You try it on his tail, you'll ram but he won't (his FE will already have moved forward, and your position will lag on his end, you'll just fall out of the sky on his view).


Depends on lag.  In this case the question is not where he is on your FE, but where you are in his
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: hitech on August 30, 2007, 10:57:53 AM
dedalos: Krusty is correct, in a tail chase , there is no way you can be behind the other guy and cause a collision on his front end. With 0 lag you would have to be inside him, with lag > 0 you have to be ahead of him. And I do not believe there is anyway to have lag < 0.


HiTech
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: evenhaim on August 30, 2007, 12:18:19 PM
guys considering the fv wasnt working when it happend.... but ask agent360 platano etc... all of them witnessed this
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Snubby on August 30, 2007, 12:33:22 PM
I rammed a B24 in my hellcat on purpose the other day..

was smoking and engine fixing to die and had no ammo and was trying to ditch..

then comes this smoking mass of tardishness .. 3 24s all smoking because they just flew over a Vbase at prolly 3K... im about 5k out and they are passing out to my right, im at full flaps and gear at 1000 getting ready to try and ditch.. and heeere they come, I wasn't about to give this guy a easy kill so up goes gear, flaps, and I shot straight at him, dove under his HO and went straight into the nose of the lead plane..  all kinds of bad noises... but yet i was still flying "you shot down soinso" I managed to ditch after that before he could swing around, somebody still got a "kill" on me but it wasn't the bomber so I wasn't upset.
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Rich46yo on August 30, 2007, 02:27:04 PM
I got rammed HO by a 262 once. How the game figured out a 260 mph Buff, with driver in gunners seat, can ram a 262 going 500+ mph is beyond me. It was an accident so who cares. Nobody is going to intentionaly ram a 262 into a B-17.
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: dedalos on August 30, 2007, 03:28:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
dedalos: Krusty is correct, in a tail chase , there is no way you can be behind the other guy and cause a collision on his front end. With 0 lag you would have to be inside him, with lag > 0 you have to be ahead of him. And I do not believe there is anyway to have lag < 0.


HiTech


Yep, I confused myself.
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: SPARKY8400 on September 19, 2007, 02:46:42 PM
i intentionally ramed a bomber when i ran out of ammo we both went down but i didnt get the kill
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Gryffin on September 20, 2007, 12:52:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
dedalos: Krusty is correct, in a tail chase , there is no way you can be behind the other guy and cause a collision on his front end. With 0 lag you would have to be inside him, with lag > 0 you have to be ahead of him. And I do not believe there is anyway to have lag < 0.


HiTech


I have rammed a bomber from dead 6 when I ran out of ammo and wanted to save a carrier. I got both the orange "you have collided" and the white "blah has collided with you" messages, and we both went down. I had about 150 mph speed advantage if that makes a difference. Maybe after the collision happened on my front end my carcass caught up to him on his front end.
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Tiger on September 20, 2007, 03:51:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gryffin
I have rammed a bomber from dead 6 when I ran out of ammo and wanted to save a carrier. I got both the orange "you have collided" and the white "blah has collided with you" messages, and we both went down. I had about 150 mph speed advantage if that makes a difference. Maybe after the collision happened on my front end my carcass caught up to him on his front end.


Most probably
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: mtnman on September 20, 2007, 04:42:11 PM
A while back Saber and I tried to land an F4U on top of a B24 in flight (piggy-back).  

Being "oh-so-careful" and matching our airspeeds as closely as possible (which would appear to minimize lag effects- since they're a factor of time, greater speed differential should increase the distance between the perceived location of the other plane and his "actual" location) we found that it was impossible.  

The plane in back (F4U) always got a collision and died.  The B24 never did.  From the F4U, it would appear that your gear was centered over the B24's wing (we were hoping to get a prop-strike, and drop the F4U gear over the leading edge of the B24's wing, leaving us "stuck" piggy-back).  As soon as any contact was made from the F4U's perspective bad things happened.

From the B24's view, the F4U would break up and fall when the F4U was still a bit behind the horizontal stabilizer of the bomber.  No contact between the two was ever apparant from the B24's view, so the B24 never took any damage.

This just supports the previously stated cause / effect of how the ram model works.  It also shows that it is "fair" from both perspectives.

MtnMan
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Rich46yo on September 20, 2007, 04:46:45 PM
I think intentionally ramming is poor sportsmanship. Either out fly someone or get out flown. Who cares if bombers get thru to a carrier? Its a cartoon war!
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Gryffin on September 20, 2007, 06:31:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rich46yo
I think intentionally ramming is poor sportsmanship. Either out fly someone or get out flown. Who cares if bombers get thru to a carrier? Its a cartoon war!


Almost every map we have has the airfields too far apart IMHO. As a result, sometimes the most enjoyable fights happen when a carrier is close to an enemy base. Sportsmanship has nothing to do with it.
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Ghosth on September 20, 2007, 10:03:34 PM
Intentional ramming hurts one person, the rammer.

The odds of actually being able to hurt someone else without you taking damage are astronaumical.
Title: Re: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Apers on September 28, 2007, 11:08:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tiger
I know the way collisions are coded in this game is kinda odd.  Is it possible to intentionally ram someone to knock them outta the sky?

I just ask because one of my bombers was rammed the other night.  Of course no damage was done to said person and he attempted to roll over through the formation again.


I do it all the time.

(http://img39.picoodle.com/img/img39/9/9/28/t_YAK04m_4f71c9a.png) (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/28/f_YAK04m_4f71c9a.png&srv=img39)
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: 2020 on September 29, 2007, 12:46:59 AM
Are you the P40 or the other one?
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Apers on September 29, 2007, 01:55:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 2020
Are you the P40 or the other one?


...


That's a Spitfire.



...


I'm the Yak.
Title: Re: Re: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Bronk on September 29, 2007, 06:15:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Apers
I do it all the time.

(http://img39.picoodle.com/img/img39/9/9/28/t_YAK04m_4f71c9a.png) (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/28/f_YAK04m_4f71c9a.png&srv=img39)


Unless your opponent accepts the ho in your screen shot. You'll only damage yourself. Here's why.vvvvvvvv

Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
Slappy, it's my personal windmill.:D

Tangle's external from his front end the moment of impact.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/Tanglesview.jpg)



Same basic angle external, tangle's view from my front end moment of impact.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/myview.jpg)


How would you feel taking damage looking at your film and seeing tangles front end view, hmmmmmm?


I know I'd be pretty POed.

Bronk

Edit: This also works nicely for the "none should take damage" people.

Yea I should be able to put the nose of my ac through another.:furious :furious :furious :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


If I see you going for a ho I'll most likely dive under. I gotten many a "xxx has collided with you." in game avoiding the ho like that.
 But you just keep on trying to ram.:rolleyes:

Bronk
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Apers on September 29, 2007, 06:24:39 PM
The whole event.

(http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/9/9/29/t_TOAN0003m_1dc1b49.png) (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/29/f_TOAN0003m_1dc1b49.png&srv=img33)

you'll notice I clipped his wing off and he shot my tailplane off.
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Bronk on September 29, 2007, 06:57:02 PM
Like i said he accepted the ho and ran into you also.
You take damage when you run into someone.
you can't be this simple.


Bronk
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Apers on September 30, 2007, 10:21:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
Like i said he accepted the ho and ran into you also.



Well if we agree why are we arguing?
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Bronk on September 30, 2007, 04:12:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Apers
Well if we agree why are we arguing?

Because you think you can intentionally ram any ac and do damage.  You can't.


Bronk
Title: Intentional Ramming
Post by: Apers on September 30, 2007, 06:03:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
Because you think you can intentionally ram any ac and do damage.


No I don't, I made a comment alluding to the majority of my kills being the result of collisions. I then provided a visual aid in which I'm taking a Spitfire Head-on. which is exactly how both planes take damage.

We're both on the same page, you're just taking this too seriously.