Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Furball on August 31, 2007, 12:31:26 PM
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It has been far too long since some more Spitfires were added. We need more, and a XII would fit the bill nicely :t
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Spitfire_banks.jpg)
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YES!!!!!!!!!!!!:aok
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And while we are at it, give me a Mk V with "A" wing and 8 x .303 - I'm getting slowly used to that guns ;)
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I would like a .303 only wing for the hurr2c! 8 or 12, it allows for more skin options.
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Originally posted by Furball
It has been far too long since some more Spitfires were added. We need more, and a XII would fit the bill nicely :t
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Spitfire_banks.jpg)
[SIZE=8]HELL YEA[/SIZE]
:aok
Bronk
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As if we didn't already have enough variants of Spits
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From: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/Mosquito-VI-tactical.pdf
Re: Spitfire XII attacking Mosquito FB.VI with Merlin 25s and ejector stacks.
4. When cruising fairly fast (2300 r.p.m. +4 boost) near the ground, the Mosquito was "jumped" by a Spitfire XII (Griffon IV) which is the fastest mark of Spitfire at low altitude in use at present. It was found that provided a good watch was kept, it was possible to pull away from it before it could close to range to shoot effectively. This of course depended heavily upon the hieght from which the Spitfire was attacking and the range at which it was first observed, but at the Mosquito's fast cruising speed the Spitfire usually had difficulty in positioning itself to attack and was seen in time. Even if not seen till 800 yards and about 1,000ft above, it was possible to accelerate and pull away if the Mosquito was opened up to full power (3,000 r.p.m. +18 lb. boost) immediately. The indicated airspeeds were 250 m.p.h. for cruising and 340 m.p.h. at full power.
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Originally posted by Tiger
As if we didn't already have enough variants of Spits
We don't, just like we don't have enough variants of the P-38.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Tiger
As if we didn't already have enough variants of Spits
As if we didn't have enough whiners.
:rolleyes:
Bronk
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gahhh!!!! noooooo!!!!
spits are evil......:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry
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Weren't a bunch of you Spit dweebs the same ones complaining when the Hog fans were clamoring for a 1A because it wasn't "different enough?" :p
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Originally posted by Saxman
Weren't a bunch of you Spit dweebs the same ones complaining when the Hog fans were clamoring for a 1A because it wasn't "different enough?" :p
There can never be enough variants of any AC, until all ac are covered.
Bronk
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More Yaks, and revamp the only TWO models we have.
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Need more Mossie varients first IMO.
Reading a book about Night fighters, they even had one very very high alt variant.
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Originally posted by Saxman
Weren't a bunch of you Spit dweebs the same ones complaining when the Hog fans were clamoring for a 1A because it wasn't "different enough?" :p
Ok first, A SpittyDweeb is someone who flys ALL spit variants. These people are just Spixteen dweebs :) . I R TEH SPITTYDWEEB! :D
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Originally posted by Furball
It has been far too long since some more Spitfires were added. We need more, and a XII would fit the bill nicely :t
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Spitfire_banks.jpg)
The Spit XII would be nice... However, there's many far more significant fighters missing altogether. P-39D, P-39Q, Ki-44, J2M3, Yak-1, Yak-3, Various Mosquitos, Me 410, Ki-43, MiG-3 even the Brewster and I-16 as examples.
(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/IJARG/images/ki44-2.jpg)
(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/IJARG/images/j2m3raiden-2.jpg)
Then, we have missing models/versions that saw combat in very large numbers, such as the F6F-3, Fw 190A-3, A6M3, F4F-3, P-51C (V1650-7 engine), P-47C , Yak-9D, P-51A/Mustang Mk.I and P-38H.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/P-51A.jpg)
(http://home.att.net/~ww2aviation/p-38h.JPG)
I'd rather have the Seafire Mk.III before the Spit XII. The latter fits into the limited numbers category, which includes the P-47M, F4U-1C and Ta 152H.
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alemarinel/Spitfire/Seafire3.jpg)
I'd like the Beaufighter too, and the Pe-2.
I'm thinking that the Spitfire Mk.XII will be quite a way down the road...
My regards,
Widewing
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And dont forget the p-26 even if it was a flying (If your lucky) pile of feces.
It has the honor of being the first American made plane to shoot down a german plane in WWII, although that was done by a French pilot.
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Don't forget the french! Or the IAR-80!
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Bleh. The LAST thing we need is a Runstang with Hizookas. They're annoying enough with just the .50cal
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Originally posted by Saxman
Bleh. The LAST thing we need is a Runstang with Hizookas. I get shot down enough to destroy my rank with just the .50cal
Fixed
:D Really, I dont mean this. It' mostly more related to me.
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Originally posted by >>>>TommyGun1017<<<<
Bleh. The LAST thing we need is a Runstang with Hizookas. I get shot down enough to destroy my rank with just the .50cal
NOW it's fixed. Gonna speak for yourself, then speak yourself.
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To tell the truth...Widewing and Bronk had it. I would ask HTC to toss Combat tour in the trash can, if they could get the planeset expanded. The basic game he has now, would be awesome with the A/C that Widewing listed.
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Its truely a shame that the Russian planeset (not those lend-lease excuses) is so sorely lacking in this fine game. We need SOMETHING thats Russian with the next addition, whether it be the Pe-2, a Mig, or another Yak variant.
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I'm with you 100% Furball you sick indivadual you!
Yea baby Spit 21 !!! wooooo!!!
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seafire XV service 1944 on
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I think you guys missed the point of my post. The Spit XII isn't that fast. Mossie VIs could outrun it.
It is slower than the Spit XVI and much slower than the Spit XIV.
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Originally posted by Widewing
The Spit XII would be nice... However, there's many far more significant fighters missing altogether. P-39D, P-39Q, Ki-44, J2M3, Yak-1, Yak-3, Various Mosquitos, Me 410, Ki-43, MiG-3 even the Brewster and I-16 as examples.
Then, we have missing models/versions that saw combat in very large numbers, such as the F6F-3, Fw 190A-3, A6M3, F4F-3, P-51C (V1650-7 engine), P-47C , Yak-9D, P-51A/Mustang Mk.I and P-38H.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/P-51A.jpg)
(http://home.att.net/~ww2aviation/p-38h.JPG)
I'd rather have the Seafire Mk.III before the Spit XII. The latter fits into the limited numbers category, which includes the P-47M, F4U-1C and Ta 152H.
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alemarinel/Spitfire/Seafire3.jpg)
I'd like the Beaufighter too, and the Pe-2.
I'm thinking that the Spitfire Mk.XII will be quite a way down the road...
My regards,
Widewing
AGREED!
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Originally posted by Karnak
I think you guys missed the point of my post. The Spit XII isn't that fast. Mossie VIs could outrun it.
It is slower than the Spit XVI and much slower than the Spit XIV.
Yes but it was a feb '43 AC.
*Droooool*
Bronk
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i'd rather see the gun packages to use the universal wing opptions. That was available on all spits after the VI . they could have the same wing but put 3 difrent packages in .
options :
1) 8 .303
2) 2 20mm and 4 .303
3) 4 20mm cannons with 82 rpg.
i can scan a book i've been reading if you want.
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Originally posted by B3YT
i'd rather see the gun packages to use the universal wing opptions. That was available on all spits after the VI . they could have the same wing but put 3 difrent packages in .
options :
1) 8 .303
2) 2 20mm and 4 .303
3) 4 20mm cannons with 82 rpg.
i can scan a book i've been reading if you want.
Nope, shouldn't be added. The universal wing could take thos armaments, but in practice it was always two 20mm cannon and four .303s. Only a couple squads of Spit Vs (not Vb like we have) and the one or two Aussie VIIIs had four 20mm. No universal winged Spit ever carried eight .303s into battle.
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from 1943 to the wars end (3 years) 2 squadron fly all attck sorties using the 4 cannon wing with bombs to support the 8th army in affrica and italy*
. thats 3 years of use out of 7 not bad for a configeration that was not used that much . Oh and 2 squadron was a british squadron.
on the same note that if the diffrent gun packeges were not used enough then ALL bomber load out options must be cut by 1/3 as B17 , B24 and lancs almost never took a full load in thier bellies.
** source "spitfire flying legend"john dibbs , tony holmes. Accounts of pilot experiances in combat supportted by sortie records and tech manuals.
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plus support your "never took 8 303's in to battle" statement please
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Good Googa Mooga! I almost can not believe some one is actualyl asking for another obscure Mk# of the spitfire when we already have too many as it is! There are far more planes that need to be here than another spit, but that is in my opinion. :huh
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Originally posted by B3YT
plus support your "never took 8 303's in to battle" statement please
The eight .303 armament ended with the very few Spitfire Mk Vas built at the insistance of Douglas Bader, He was shot down and captured while flying one. No Spitfire went into battle with eight .303s after thos were withdrawn from service.
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Originally posted by Karnak
The eight .303 armament ended with the very few Spitfire Mk Vas built at the insistance of Douglas Bader,
I want to have one of that few - I can kill a lot more enemies with 8x.303 than 2 Hispanos with only 60 rpg.
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where is that taken from i gave you a referance. plus why should that negate the other options that WERE USED .
What about the bomber issues then ? they hardly every carried full load out . so do you wan to see them reduced?
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B3YT,
They weren't used. That is the point.
As to my source, try "Spitfire: The History" or any of a dozen other books on my shelf related to the Spitfire specificaly or WWII aircraft including the Spitfire.
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So whats the difference in the 12 that the others dont have? They look the same to me.
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The Spitfire XII was the first variant of Spitfire to enter service with the new Griffon engine of 37.5 cubic litres of displacement as opposed to the Merlin's 27.5 cubic L. The new engine could make as much horsepower on take-off as some production Merlin's maximum power output. If you look carefully, the Mk.XII is the only Griffon-nosed variant with a magneto bulge on the front along with a four blade prop, and some Mk.XII's converted from Mk.V frames have taiwheels. Some Mk.XII's were converted from VIII frames. None have the Mk.XIV fin, though they all have the tall-chord rudder.
I think most Mk. XII's were powered by the Griffon IIB which wasn't all that great. Later Mk.XII's were powered by the Griffon VI which was better.
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Lol I remember this was asked for already and it went nowhere. There were far less Mk.XII's than Seafire Mk.III's. Though, the XII would be fun.
Would have the range of a seven-year old obese dog, though.
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Originally posted by Karnak
The eight .303 armament ended with the very few Spitfire Mk Vas built at the insistance of Douglas Bader, He was shot down and captured while flying one. No Spitfire went into battle with eight .303s after thos were withdrawn from service.
so it was used before then as part of a universal wing. ergo it could be included as it was used it combat by atleast 2 squadrons. used in air combat . and betweeen 39-45 . fill all the boxes for HTC.
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Eight .303s was never used as part of a Universal Wing. Spitfire Mk Vas had an "a" wing and were not capable of taking 20mm cannon.
The four 20mm cannon were only used on Spitfire Mk Vs with the Universal Wing (which we do not have), and only for ground attack missions. There were one or two Mk VIIIs (one or two aircraft, not squadrons) that carried four 20mm cannon too.
So, in AH the only Spitfire that could in any way be justified as having the four 20mm cannon armament would be the Mk VIII, and then you would be taking something that was used on less than .5% of Mk VIIIs and seeing it used on 50+% of Mk VIIIs in the game.
No.
As to the .303s, it is reasonable to ask for the Mk V to have the "a" wing as an option as they are the same other than armament. But the Mk IX and VIII should not have the option for the eight .303s.
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Originally posted by DweebFire
The Spitfire XII was the first variant of Spitfire to enter service with the new Griffon engine of 37.5 cubic litres of displacement as opposed to the Merlin's 27.5 cubic L. The new engine could make as much horsepower on take-off as some production Merlin's maximum power output. If you look carefully, the Mk.XII is the only Griffon-nosed variant with a magneto bulge on the front along with a four blade prop, and some Mk.XII's converted from Mk.V frames have taiwheels. Some Mk.XII's were converted from VIII frames. None have the Mk.XIV fin, though they all have the tall-chord rudder.
I think most Mk. XII's were powered by the Griffon IIB which wasn't all that great. Later Mk.XII's were powered by the Griffon VI which was better.
Jeez, I'm slipping. Someone mentioned the XII and I missed it.
Prototype XII DP845 was powered by a Griffon IIB
Production Spit XIIs were powered by the Griffon III and IV
EN serialed birds were in the main converted from the Spitfire Vc and had the fixed tail wheel. MB serialed birds were in the main converted from Spit VIII and have retractable tail wheels although at least one MB794 has a fixed tail wheel.
They flew with 41 and 91 squadrons starting in February 43 when 41 converted to them. 91 followed shortly afterwards. They were pushed into service to counter the tip and run raiders on the south coast of England. In this role they did quite well, essentially stopping the raids after knocking down 5 190s attempting to bomb Folkstone on May 25, 1943.
They went on the offensive end, escorting RAF and USAAF medium bombers in the summer of 43 as well as flying Fighter Sweeps. Teamed together, 91 and 41 formed the Tangmere Wing in the Fall of 43 and were the high scoring Wing during that time as the XII was more then a match for the 109s and 190s they ran into.
Their best day was October 20, 1943 when the Wing claimed 9 109s and 190s for no loss.
The Spit XII always operated with at least a 30 gallon DT as it did burn more fuel. Early on during a couple of recce runs along the French coast, Spit XIIs were interecepted by 190s and outran them, despite the pilots forgetting to lose the DT. Later in the Summer of 44 they were carrying 90 gallon DTs on escorts.
91 Squadron converted to the XIV in the Spring of 44 while 41 kept going with the XII through the summer of 44 and the V-1 raids where the XII was used on "Anti-Diver" patrols, doing well knocking down V-1s. It's last encounter with the LW was in September 44 when Terry Spencer and Pat Coleman each knocked down 190s over Holland.
I spent much of the 80s and into the 90s corresponding with Spit XII pilots and researching that particular Spit so it's kinda close to my heart :)
Prize of my aviation collection is the logbook of a Spit XII pilot who flew with both 41 and 91 Squadrons.
I'd love to have one in AH. I'd have to give up the 38G of course for my first love :)
Dweebfire the Seafire XV was powered by the Griffon VI not the XII
B3YT, 2 Squadron was an SAAF squadron flying Spitfire Vcs. They didn't use the 4 cannon untl later in 44-45 when the air to air threat was minimal.
the 8 303 armament was only the early Spitfire Va. Despite the ability to fit 8 303s to a Universal wing, it was never done in practice.
I wouldn't ever want a 4 cannon Spitfire in AH unless they ever decide to model the Spit 21 which had 4 cannon standard.
It was just never used in any kind of numbers to justify it, and a 4 cannon Spitfire in AH would not be used for ground attack.
And trust me I love Spits, but gotta keep the game over all in mind too.
And just to name drop a little bit :)
The pilot flying MB882, the last production Spit XII in the photo below is F/L Clive Gosling. I was lucky enough to get to know Clive well during the 80s. I got my first letter from him on the day of my wedding, and I'd be lying if I said it was a toss up as to which was more exciting for me :)
He flew Spits in the B of B with 266 squadron, flew on the first sweeps over France with 72 Squadron and then was sent to Supermarine as a Service Test Pilot where he did much of the XII test flying. Talk about a gold mine of info. The photo was taken October 14, 1943. Clive later returned to operations in the summer of 44 with 616 squadron flying Spitfire VIIs then Meteors. He also became the first service pilot to fly a captured 262 when he and his CO were sent to Fassberg to bring back a couple of them.
I got to meet Clive in 86 and shared a meal and raised a glass with him at the RAF club.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Spitfire_banks.jpg)
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My bad. I keep mixing up my numerals.
Edit: Though there is mention of a Griffon-VI Spit12 somewhere on the website.www.spitfireperformance.com (http://)
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Originally posted by DweebFire
My bad. I keep mixing up my numerals.
Edit: Though there is mention of a Griffon-VI Spit12 somewhere on the website.www.spitfireperformance.com (http://)
The well known photos of DP845 in clipped wing configuration actually show it in October 43 when it was using a Griffon VI. Also being flown by Clive Gosling and the photos of it and of MB882 were taken by Charles Brown.
I have copies of the record cards on all 100 Spit XIIs and DP845 so I can tell ya which particular XII had which Griffon. Of course some had both over their service time.
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Yay, Dan showed up. I was getting lonely in here, advocating historical based modeling.
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(http://aviationmuseum.com.au/aircraft/images/Th-Spitfire.jpg)
cool spit
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Originally posted by Karnak
Yay, Dan showed up. I was getting lonely in here, advocating historical based modeling.
Bahaha i was hoping Dan would come along too after my initial post, surprised it took him so long! :)
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with the F6F-5 they could add optional gun package of 4x.50calM2 and 2x20mm. some-5 and 5N(night fighters had that package) and add the P47M..top speed was around 470mph...never got to chase V-1 as intended but, it had success agsinst both the 262 and 234. carried only 6x50.cal ..
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Originally posted by Furball
Bahaha i was hoping Dan would come along too after my initial post, surprised it took him so long! :)
I think his Mk XII dar is down. :D
Bronk
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Originally posted by TOMCAT21
with the F6F-5 they could add optional gun package of 4x.50calM2 and 2x20mm. some-5 and 5N(night fighters had that package) and add the P47M..top speed was around 470mph...never got to chase V-1 as intended but, it had success agsinst both the 262 and 234. carried only 6x50.cal ..
No again. For the same reason as no to the four 20mm on the Spit. Something that was rare in reality would be used predominately in the game. As to the P-47M, like the Spitfire XII, it was used in extremely low numbers. Numbers that make the C.205 look common and the N1K2-J plentiful.
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Karnak makes a very good point.
However, d'ya think it might ever be possible to specifiy different gun loadouts as mentioned at the cost of perk points?
That would prevent the overuse of 4x20mm spits all the time......
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-8/48257/Swoop2.gif)
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Originally posted by Karnak
As to the P-47M, like the Spitfire XII, it was used in extremely low numbers. Numbers that make the C.205 look common and the N1K2-J plentiful.
I'll take a razorback Jug with a paddle blade prop instead of the M. They were not rare, they were the majority and better performing than all the D's that we currently have.
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Originally posted by Karnak
No again. For the same reason as no to the four 20mm on the Spit. Something that was rare in reality would be used predominately in the game. As to the P-47M, like the Spitfire XII, it was used in extremely low numbers. Numbers that make the C.205 look common and the N1K2-J plentiful.
Now hold the phone just a minute Karnak :)
We have a Ta 152 that saw far less combat then the XII. The XII was on Ops from February 43-September 44 and did a lot more damage and had a far greater impact. Lets not write off a Spit XII fanatic's dreams so quickly:furious
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
(http://aviationmuseum.com.au/aircraft/images/Th-Spitfire.jpg)
cool spit
Spitfire LF. VIII. We already have that in the game. We're talking abuot the TWELVE here.
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Originally posted by Bruv119
I'm with you 100% Furball you sick indivadual you!
Yea baby Spit 21 !!! wooooo!!!
The anti-british bias within HTC would never allow any uber spits because for them they are " too good"
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Originally posted by Laurie
The anti-british bias within HTC would never allow any uber spits because for them they are " too good"
Lmao
Mk. I
Mk. V
Mk. IX
Mk. VIII
Mk. XIV
Mk. XVI
Yup very bias.:rolleyes:
Bronk
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i have a pic on a a Spit V with 4 20 mm cannons from 2 squadron in 1943. and a 100lb bomb
(http://d:/lastscan.jpg)
damn how do i add it?
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You could send us a link instead.. try photobucketing it.
Also, the Spitfire we have is one of the earliest Mk.V's ever built. We're not getting some buffed up Spitfire any time soon.
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I'm a spittydweeb and even I don't want a 4 20mm spit. I like to have a challenge when blow people outta the skies. Not "ping ping" BOOM!
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Originally posted by B3YT
i have a pic on a a Spit V with 4 20 mm cannons from 2 squadron in 1943. and a 100lb bomb
(http://d:/lastscan.jpg)
damn how do i add it?
Guessing this is your image. Not 43, but later in the Italian campaign
I can't imagine anyone is going to want the performance trade off given 4 20mm cannon and the big Vokes Filter under the nose. It would be a "dog" in a turning fight.
And again, while I love Spits, we don't need a 4 cannon bird
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/4CannonSpitVc.jpg)
Another photo of 2 Squadron Spit Vc fitted out for Ground attack over Italy
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/4CannonSpits.jpg)
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lol another Spitfire with a higher mark (12).
- How does the mark 12 compare to other spitfires, bf 109, and Fw 190?
- When was this introduced?
- Was it historically significant?
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Originally posted by 1K3
lol another Spitfire with a higher mark (12).
- How does the mark 12 compare to other spitfires, bf 109, and Fw 190?
- When was this introduced?
- Was it historically significant?
Go back and read what I wrote :)
equal to or better then both the 109 and 190 when it was introduced in early 43 and yes it was historically significant having put an end to the hit and run raids on England's south coast with a 5-0 pounding of the 190s on May 25, 1943 and being the two Spit XII squadrons were the high scoring RAF Wing in the Fall of 43.
Do I think we need it in AH? Nope. The XVI has comparable performance down low where the XII shined.
Would it be fun just because I love the XII? Yep.
Would it be first on my list for the next plane added to AH? Nope.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Go back and read what I wrote :)
equal to or better then both the 109 and 190 when it was introduced in early 43 and yes it was historically significant having put an end to the hit and run raids on England's south coast with a 5-0 pounding of the 190s on May 25, 1943 and being the two Spit XII squadrons were the high scoring RAF Wing in the Fall of 43.
Do I think we need it in AH? Nope. The XVI has comparable performance down low where the XII shined.
Would it be fun just because I love the XII? Yep.
Would it be first on my list for the next plane added to AH? Nope.
Wasn't it also the first squadron strength griff powered spit. That's fairly significant don't ya think?
Bronk