Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: odin3 on September 02, 2007, 10:50:16 AM
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I know alot of you are going to say that the P-47 is bad at dogfighting like most people i've asked in game.. But i've seen them in dogfights and looks to me they do well.. And this is by far my favorate plane out of them all and I would love to dogfight this.. But it is difficult for me to set up a schedule with a trainer cuz i dont know when the next time i'll be on.. But i would love to do that sometime... But for the mean time if anyone can give me some tips and pointers and the do's and donts would be great. And I know the p47 is great at high alts... :D Thanks
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The only problem with the P47 and dogfighting is most fights in the MAs happen at much lower alts where its not the best. Keep it fast, and don't do any sustained turns. I like the -25, its not the fastest, but it turns pretty good when you need it.To me it doesn't "feel" as heavy as the others. I think th biggest trick in the P47 is to know when to cut and run, regain some energy, and come back.
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The P-47 is another of those planes like the Corsair or P-40 or P-51, or, well, just about anything American with the possible exception of that ugly bomber :D that you can "wallow around in" to have close-in knife fights with planes most people say you shouldn't.
If you want to get a feel for what she can do, I'd suggest going to the training arena, announcing on range that you are ok with having people practice their aim on you, and get as many on your six as possible. Then, try to get them off your six by forcing them to overshoot.
Don't worry about taking pings - they can't hurt you.
Also, it's worth noting... Attempting to turn fight in any large American plane in the MA on the DECK is *very* much more difficult than doing so with some clean air below you. Alt gives you options (and I do not mean, in any way, to run).
If you want, PM me next time you see me online. My ingame ID is the same as here, Vudak. I'll go with you into the TA and take my Corsair against you in a Spitfire or such. We'll knife fight, and you'll see how capable these birds are of holding their own. Much of the same tactics I'll employ in a Corsair will work in a P-47 too. (I'm pretty confident I can give you a run for your money in the Corsair, but I'm not so well-versed in the Jug, though the same idea and "style" applies).
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If you can ever catch JensK online talk to him. He's from Sweden so his time on is different from the States. He is one of the few people I see landing air-air kills alot in the Jug.
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o.k. alright guys,, thanks a bunch and i'll take you up on that offer.. what arena do you play in the most? right now the spit is normaly the one I fly alot of so i'm kinda use to it.. still have problems shooting people down and shaking people off my six.. i'm trying to get use to the stall limiter off and thats kinda hard, cuz i started with it on...
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Vudak is right, the best tactic for a Jug or a corsair is to force a overshoot, this can be done several ways, The great thing about that big fat plane is when u make a hard manuver it will slow down qucker than any other plane, which in turn will make it turn harder than your chaser plane for a few seconds, this is where u have the advantage is this is where u need to make your strike, plus a jug or corsair can take alot of punishment, so what i tend to do is dive down a little get my speed up, where these plans are better suited for turning, and make a hard break turn and listen for the overshoot, ususally u will stop hearing guns firing, then u turn back the other way and walla, you are behind him.
Unfortunetly your window of opurtunity is short since these planes do not regain speed very well, a ace pilot will see the overshoot and go verticle or climb knowing u cant follow, if he does this u are in trouble, but atleast u have cleared your six and may allow u time to get freindly help. Find someone who likes to fly these fat birds like myself or another corsair or jug sqaudron. We are always happy to help someone learn a plane that is hard to fly right, but when done right is a formidable opponent.
I can out turn spits with my Corsair when need be, and a jug is not far off from that performance, sometimes being able to slow down fast can be used to your advantage, u have to fly your plane in its best element.
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JensK or Balsy both very good jug pilots!
Most definitely an acquired taste.
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P47 is the under plane of Aces High
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For some reason when I fly a P-47 low and fast I dieless often than when I'm high and fast. The P-47 is actually a dogfighter at heart, it's just the way it was built and the P-51 why it's mainly an attack plane. I've been flying the P-47D-40 alot and I like it. Keep it fast, don't get into a turn fight, and if you do don't stay in it very long. If someone comes in the HO you just give em a face full of led from your 8 50cals :D .
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If you are making a transition from Spits to the Jug, you have to change your mind set completely. The Jug can dog fight quite decently, but what you have to remember is that it doesn't really turn. As mentioned above, it wallows instead.
To dogfight the jug, you have to think geometry instead of turn and apply careful E management. It is not like a spit where you pull the stick and work your way to the behind of your opponent, or just slam open the throttle and point the plane up. The maneuvers are more "complicated" and you work for that one good shot opportunity that you must hit. You count more on your ability to "out fly" the other guy than on the plane one wonder maneuver. By "out fly" I mean that the other guy is just a stick puller.
The only way to learn is to fly the jug and attack anything, even from disadvantage. Be super aggressive and don't Boom Zoom and Run, no matter what people tell you. Avoid the N model, it is the worst dogfighter of the jugs.
Oh yes, one final free advice, that is good for all: If you K/D is better than 3, you are not really fighting.
Good luck.
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I LOVE dogfighting in the Jug. Its brilliant! It can DEFINATELY turn, just no sustained turns. I find the D-40 works best for me, simply because its a lot heavier, but Im trying to learn the D-11
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Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
Vudak is right, the best tactic for a Jug or a corsair is to force a overshoot,
I am sorry, I did not read it that way when Vudak mentioned to try and get people to overshoot...I read it as learning what the plane is capable of.......
I would not teach or tell anyone that the best tactic for a corsair ( F4U type ) or a Jug ( P47D type ) is to force overshoot maneuvers...... the overshoot maneuver is a last ditch effort in a defensive situation..
just saying.......
Bozon is spot on, flying with a mindset of geometery/angles & "out of plane maneuvering" is the proper way of dogfighting.....the Jug in my opinion needs to keep its speed up, and as Bozon mentions careful eye on the "E" management
only when you get in a situation to where you are trying to avoid your opponents guns from behind the 3/9 line should you begin to think of a possible overshoot type maneuver......
hope this helps....
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
I am sorry, I did not read it that way when Vudak mentioned to try and get people to overshoot...I read it as learning what the plane is capable of.......
I would not teach or tell anyone that the best tactic for a corsair ( F4U type ) or a Jug ( P47D type ) is to force overshoot maneuvers...... the overshoot maneuver is a last ditch effort in a defensive situation..
just saying.......
Bozon is spot on, flying with a mindset of geometery/angles & "out of plane maneuvering" is the proper way of dogfighting.....the Jug in my opinion needs to keep its speed up, and as Bozon mentions careful eye on the "E" management
only when you get in a situation to where you are trying to avoid your opponents guns from behind the 3/9 line should you begin to think of a possible overshoot type maneuver......
hope this helps....
Rgr that, TC, I was talking learning the low speed envelope.
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One thing I'll say though, is when Bozon, TC, and I talk about "keeping the speed up," we're talking keeping it up to where you need it, and where you can use it. We aren't talking keeping it up as fast as it can go.
I think that's one thing that's very misinterpreted in these flight sims.
Hence my suggestion for having some clean sky below you. Having 5k to work with means being able to go nose low on some turns and manuevers to keep your speed up to the point where you can still go nose high as needed. Once you're on the deck, your options are very much limited in that regard.
Remember, you trade potential E (alt) for kinetic E (speed), and vice versa... Make sure you have enough in the bank to cover your checks :)
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oh wow.. thanks guys for the tons of info... now my next questions.. what is wallowing? and when you say dont boom and zoom, then some say dont turn fight.. umm what else is there LOL.. i'm kinda of confused now.
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Wallowing: dropping flaps and trying to float your way to victory. Nothing dives like a jug, those things drop like lead bricks. Get some alt and jump on fleeing LA7s. They'll never know what hit em. I'm just starting to scratch the surface of the jug. Very difficult to master, very rewarding when you make a kill. I've seen some guys do incredible things with em. I am, thus far, merely cannon fodder but I sense that there is something there if I can just figure it out.
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Few Jug movies can be found here so you can get an idea of what she can do.
http://56fg.net/movies/movies.htm
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Originally posted by odin3
now my next questions.. what is wallowing?
The thing is that the Jug's SUSTAINED turn rate is poor. The turn radius is OK if you use the flaps but the turn rate isn't. The feeling you get is that you are flying at low speed and slowly crawling your way around the circle.
Learning how to utilize the turning radius, instead of turn rate require some ability to imagine the geometry of the fight. Instead of turning angles quicker than your opponent, you fight to position yourself in such a way that it is actually HE that is turning into your guns.
Beginners usually imagine the fight as two planes flying in co-centric circles. This is rarely the case. The first thing to do is to imagine two other possibilities:
1. Two planes in co-centric circles, one having a much smaller radius. Imagine what would happen if the inner circle plane has a lower turn rate.
2. Two planes with the same turning radius and rate (for simplicity) that start turning simultaneously, but their circles are not co-centric.
If you understand these two much more important scenarios, you will start to understand what effects geometry has on the concept of "out turning". Then imagine it in 3D with variations.
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Originally posted by odin3
when you say dont boom and zoom, then some say dont turn fight.. umm what else is there LOL.. i'm kinda of confused now.
There's always something I call strike runs. When you're going to a furball get really fast (350-450mph) and fly straight into it, and make very slight ajustments to your flight path to shoot enemy planes down. When you get to the middle or near the edge of the furball, immelman or spilt-s, dive fore the deck, and get out of the furball. Get a safe distance away, get some alt, get fast again, and go in again.
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Thats one thing i notice about jugs, they can do a split S quicker than the vast majority of the planes in here
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Originally posted by Latrobe
There's always something I call strike runs. When you're going to a furball get really fast (350-450mph) and fly straight into it, and make very slight ajustments to your flight path to shoot enemy planes down. When you get to the middle or near the edge of the furball, immelman or spilt-s, dive fore the deck, and get out of the furball. Get a safe distance away, get some alt, get fast again, and go in again.
But isnt that called boom and zoom? you boom into a furball zoom away and then come back and do it again. right?
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One evening Dedalos and I flew a series of duels in the TA. We flew 109s, P-40s, Spits, F4Us and the P-47D-25. Flying the Jugs, we took turns hosing each other and had fun brawl. Here's a snippet of the P-47s, edited to half of the total length (would be a 4 meg file). The fight continued until fuel ran out. That, by the way is why the TA offers a different experience than the DA... Fights last a very long time and mental as well as physical fatigue actually becomes a factor. It doesn't take long to recognize that dedalos is a very capable pilot, and a great competitor.
P-47 fight (http://home.att.net/~ww2aviation/Wide-Dedalos-P-47s-1.ahf)
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by odin3
But isnt that called boom and zoom? you boom into a furball zoom away and then come back and do it again. right?
Naaaawwwww, thats called "cherry pickin" :D
BnZ is when you try to maintain a large "E" advantage over the enemy, never turning more than just a touch for a shot
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One thing I like about the bigger planes is their ability to bleed speed quickly in a climb, and gain speed pretty quick in a dive.
I'm no expert by any means, and my favorite ride is a P-38, which I find to be great vertical fighter, unlike the P-47.
Big planes like the P-47 though, are made for people who can think in 3 dimensions, like the others have mentioned here.
A high yo-yo in a turn will bleed your speed very quickly and often cause an overshoot with an opponent who has a plane that holds E better. Then if they don't break off by going vertical, you can catch many 'flat turners' on the downside of the yo yo, or at least get the speed boost to maintain a firing solution a little longer.
Like I said, I'm no expert, and I can think about these things much better than I can execute them, but the concept should be sound (the more experienced here will let me know otherwise). :D
Cheers,
Spitter
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ive been messing witht he 47 and corsair alittle bit and finding they are harder to fight with, but have got a few kills in each of them... I have a habbit of trying to turn with the plane on the way down which ends up me loosing alot of speed and then them getting behind me when i deside bad idea and go up... then i go down with no wings :( the other part i have problems with right now is my gunnery.. i would have tons more kills if i can just get that up to snuff.. I've been in the training arena with the lead help on and has helped alot thus far, but when in the MA youre still guessing with the lead..
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My aim is terrible too, always has been :( I think the biggest trick to a good aim is getting and remembering those "site pictures" some of the good shots talk about. This is some thing you get good at with alot of practice. In my case, I don't fly often enough for these "pictures" to stick.
One trick I figured out is this. For those strait 6 shots, I love to sneak up on someone whos not very good at SA :D What I did was set my convergence on my guns at 350, then roll your favorite plane, and get to alt. and go to auto level heading north. Set the target to your guns convergence (.target 350). Fire a good burst, zoom in and check "where" your rounds landed. This will show you how much of a drop your rounds have at that distance. You can check out other "ranges" while your at it. So far its helped me hit much better from a strait 6 shot.
I wonder if printing out some "screen shots" taken while using the "lead computing site" in the TA might be an idea.... kiinda like "flash cards" for aiming :D I think that might be the next thing I try.
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whats the SA?
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Situational Awarness, it means being aware of everything going on around you. Where other threats may come from, knowing whos the biggest threat, if there are any friendlies around, where you nearest base is, both friendly and enemy, plane types and so on. Basically every bit of information you could use to help you.
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ohh o.k. that makes sence. i know i've gotten use to looking at whats around me alot lately. like for expample, the other day i was in the jug and up at about 13k and dove down onto a spit at about 6k, well needless to say that a 109 was right behind me and didnt notice him, he was about 3k above me, so i saw about 5 friendly and dove right to them and lucky me, they got the 109 before he got me pulled up found the spit and went in for the kill.. Thats the only kill I got on the 47 so far..
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Stick with it odin, more kills will follow.
When I was in your stage, what helped me the most were P-47 films posted by Lephturn and Frenchy. While I may not be the hottest Jug stick, here are a few films to help you visualize what people suggested above.
I normally fly the jug very aggressively, which is not a good way to pad your score but is very fun - even if you get killed, as you will see. BnZ is for idiots and require mostly god aim, some SA and the will to run from danger. The stick is there only as a phallic symbol for you to grab. Knife fighting is where the real fun starts.
Do not worry about your gunnery. I've been playing since early 2002 and still hit ~5% which is abysmal after that long time. Anyway, I hope these help. Select "use recorded views" to see how to work the view system and you can turn "Trail" on to check out the geometry.
D11 vs. Hurri. I set up a bait, but over estimate his speed. Note the rolling defense (keep him lagged 90 degree in the roll) and out of plane turns. I hit the snapshot but to my surprise he flies on and fights back:
http://files.filefront.com/D11vsHurri2c+0000ahf/;8488348;/fileinfo.html
D25 vs. some persistent K61 and 190A5. I underestimated the Ki and miss too many shots, but it was fun:
http://files.filefront.com/knivesahf/;8488258;/fileinfo.html
Good example of rolling scissors, bad example of gunnery:
http://files.filefront.com/47vsla5+rollingahf/;8488218;/fileinfo.html
I offer my 6 to a P38 who is hesitant in biting and plays it very carefully. Eventually develops into rolling scissors and the 38 just refuses to die:
http://files.filefront.com/47vs38+rollingahf/;8488211;/fileinfo.html
Very fun deck fighting with a seafire, till an F6F crashes the party. "skillfuly ditched" :p :
http://files.filefront.com/47vsSeafire+ditchahf/;8488257;/fileinfo.html
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P-47D-40, my favroite plane, i out turn F4Us in that babe, its a great plane, use the high speed flaps as an adavantage :D
BigbobCH
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I was suggested to learn to turn fight/stall fight first then go to the jug.. so right now i'm flying the spit 8 and amizing. so far today got about 13 kills :) getting my gunnery skill up to.. kinda good..
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Don't give up on the P47N.
Use it as the appropriate tool from the P47 tool box of four choices. I use the N minimum from 15k with one or two drop tanks and 50% internal. Depends on how many sectors you are upping from to sweep from 15k up to 20k looking for the altbishy & rooky hoard bangers. Sorry I fly knights mostly.
From 15K and up you can play with anything. If you use wep you can run down ponies, K4, and D9. Above 15k you turn with them. Learn the D11-D40 first. Save the N for last. Until you learn flying the 47 series from the begining, the N will let you down at the wrong and most important points in your dogfights.
YUCCA and Platano used to make me fly D40 and N with them under 7k in the bushs. In that case take 25% internal and a drop tank. Go for the fight, not to get home. Drop the tank when you engage your first con. 47 slows down so fast in the vertical and horizontal on the deck, it becomes a matter of making sure they over shoot where your pipper will be pointing so you get a good snap shot.
Contact Platano about this for a better explanation. I used to land behind him shot to pieces while he landed kills shot to pieces. :)
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That 5 or 10 min (or whatever it is) of wep in the "N" makes it one of the best 3-4 planes in the game---takes forEVER (assuming you save wep) to climb to 13ish where its safe to start a fight, but as long as wep holds out the plane is good all the way into the weeds....I cycle it on and off to make sure engine doesnt overheat....just don't run out of wep alone and on deck in Injun country....(and don't let K4's get above you...if anyone can tell me what to do about THOSE salamanders, I'd be happy to hear it:aok )
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Originally posted by odin3
I was suggested to learn to turn fight/stall fight first then go to the jug.. so right now i'm flying the spit 8 and amizing. so far today got about 13 kills :) getting my gunnery skill up to.. kinda good..
P47 is a terrible plane. Cant turn...slow..just a big ole target. I would stay away from it. Its not for the faint of heart.:rolleyes:
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And....I might add they look funny and are not a real fighter.
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wtf r u talking about, P-47s do not look retarded,they are awsome fighters, plus, U LOOK RETARDED
BigBOBCH
PS= idk wtf u talkin bout it cant turn, u put those flaps 1 notch down u can out turn F4Us, so learn to fly is all i got to say
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Originally posted by redman555
PS= idk wtf u talkin bout it cant turn, u put those flaps 1 notch down u can out turn F4Us, so learn to fly is all i got to say
I might just be stupid, but I don't think so.
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Originally posted by redman555
wtf r u talking about, P-47s do not look retarded,they are awsome fighters, plus, U LOOK RETARDED
BigBOBCH
PS= idk wtf u talkin bout it cant turn, u put those flaps 1 notch down u can out turn F4Us, so learn to fly is all i got to say
hook line and sinker nice catch red :lol
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lol really tho,i hate it when ppl call the P-47 a bad fighter, if u know how to use its disadvantages, and its flaps, u can easliy take out almost every kind of plane
its got good engine,high speed flaps, carries bombs and rockets,DTs, super good at high alt, its a great plane, how u explain i shoot down normally 3+ ppl every time i fly a P-47, and, most i ever landed in her is 8 kills, all in a P-47D-40
o and dont u even dare forget about the freakin 8 50CALS!!!!!
BigbobCH:D
PS: and donkey, i will do that for ya any time, considering i do it all the time
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well now all i need to do is learn how to fight with it.. i've been trying for like 3-4 weeks and no luck.. :( for some reason i cant get the BnZ right. when i dive in for the kill they more and i dare not turn cuz i slow down so i just waist gas on flying in and out... then when i try and get behind someone, they out turn me and get behind me and shoot me down... AAAAAHHHHHHH so frustration... *cry*
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I think redtop was talking about the P38 :D
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lighten it up, i fly my 47D-11 with 6 gun heavy option, DT + 75% fuel, turns with lalas, early spits, yaks, even f4u's if u the isn't smart enough to use flaps, but it's all about the high yoyo's, if you miss a pass, high yoyo on there six for a gun shot, SOMETIMES i'll lag pursuit if i know my E can get me outta dodge if i gotta, i'm no 47 expert but i've been flying it alot lately, D11 wise that is:cool:
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i still will probly get shot down... my moral has dropped.. some one get me an MRE
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Please don't laugh at me but what the heck is a YO YO maneuver.
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There's a High Yo-Yo and a low Yo-Yo maneuver. High yo-yo is used most of the time to not overshoot, and a low yo-yo is used to pick up more speed. To do a High yo-yo pull up, roll over, and come back down. A low yo-yo is basiclly the opposite, roll over, pull up (since your already upside down it's more like a dive), roll over and pull up.
EDIT:
Now that I have some more time here's what my Flght Manual I have says.
High Yo-Yo
The High Yo-yo the root of all offensive air combat, replacing intelligent maneuvering for "G for Brains" high-G tactics. The high yo yo reduces AOT (Angle of tail, measures the angel between your flight path and that of your target) at the cost of increasing range between attacker and target. The yo yo begins during a turn fight when you have assumed an agressive position behind the bandit, but are stuck in a lag pursuit and unable to bring your nose to bear. Roll up slightly, maintaning the lag pursuit, then pull the nose up.
Low Yo-Yo
The low yo yo is the logical opposite of the high yo yo and performs the exact opposite function. Whereas the high yo yo decreases AOT and increases range, the low yo yo increases AOT while decreasing range.
The low yo yo is generally used when you have a good shot opportunity, but you're outside your weapon's maximum range. To get closer, you lower your nose below the horizon. Lowering the nose increases speed. Unfortunately, the increased speed almost always results in increased turn radius, forcing you into a lag pursuit and increasing AOT. A low yo yo, therefore, almost always requires a following high yo yo to correct the angles problem generated by the increased speed.
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wow.. that made no sence at all.. so what you're saying is passes you at head on.. you pull up, at the same time left alaron, little rudder and turn and go back down?
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Where are you getting the "head on" part?
Originally posted by odin3
wow.. that made no sence at all.. so what you're saying is passes you at head on.. you pull up, at the same time left alaron, little rudder and turn and go back down?
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odin, if you're talking about my post that was just explaining what a High and Low yo yo are. Whether you HO or not is purley up to you. You can go in guns a blazin and try to kill the enemy head-on shooting, or you can avoid the HO by diving, climbing, turning, whatever you do. There are many moves to choose, but the maneuver you choose to avoid the HO must be timed right, and you must think out your plan of attack so you know what your next move will be.
For example, if you choose to pull up to avoid the HO and you pull up too soon then the enemy just has to pull up too and he's already on your six. If you pull up too late then the enemy will shoot your tail off as he goes by you. BUT if you time it just right he will go by under you and you have accomplished avoiding the HO.
You need a plan. If you just say "I'll pull up" and you timed it right then what? You're going straight up and don't know what to do now. As soon as you see that you're going to HO someone, and you want to avoid you must start planning. What way will I go? What plane is the enemy in? What plane am I in? What can his plane do vs mine? How much E do both of us have? You have to plan "What to do to avoid the HO", and if you do avoid it "What to do if the enemy does this? or if he does that?"
Basiclly what i'm tryin to say is only you can deciede if you want to HO. If you do them prey you make it out alive. If you don't then you need to plan out what move you will choose to avoid the HO, and what move to do if the enemy just keeps flying straight or if he turns or if he climbs or dives.
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Originally posted by Nimrod45
Please don't laugh at me but what the heck is a YO YO maneuver.
Go to this old thread, and scroll down to Badboy's post of March 17, 2006. It has a diagram of a high yo-yo that is better than the fabled thousand words. A low yo-yo is basically the reverse.
If you have time, read the entire thread and watch the video, too. These guys are among the top teachers.
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=173151&referrerid=4533
- oldman
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Originally posted by redman555
lol really tho,i hate it when ppl call the P-47 a bad fighter, if u know how to use its disadvantages, and its flaps, u can easliy take out almost every kind of plane
its got good engine,high speed flaps, carries bombs and rockets,DTs, super good at high alt, its a great plane, how u explain i shoot down normally 3+ ppl every time i fly a P-47, and, most i ever landed in her is 8 kills, all in a P-47D-40
o and dont u even dare forget about the freakin 8 50CALS!!!!!
BigbobCH:D
PS: and donkey, i will do that for ya any time, considering i do it all the time
Redman....huh....go to the scores page...type in RedTop in the expanded ie deal.....Check the rides....and do it from like say 4 tours ago and back....I aint flown much in the last few months.
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Originally posted by redman555
lol really tho,i hate it when ppl call the P-47 a bad fighter, if u know how to use its disadvantages, and its flaps, u can easliy take out almost every kind of plane
its got good engine,high speed flaps, carries bombs and rockets,DTs, super good at high alt, its a great plane, how u explain i shoot down normally 3+ ppl every time i fly a P-47, and, most i ever landed in her is 8 kills, all in a P-47D-40
o and dont u even dare forget about the freakin 8 50CALS!!!!!
BigbobCH:D
PS: and donkey, i will do that for ya any time, considering i do it all the time
Did you fly under a different name before BigBOBCH ?
Cause I just looked at your stats and you don't seem to be as prolific in the P-47 as you are making out to be.
Yes the P-47 is a great fighter ... at alt ... you need lots of room to dogfight. Get a P-47 below 2K, low and slow and it's nothing but an easy kill 99% of the time.
Now ... tangle with the likes of Frenchy in his P-47 and you had better have brought your "A" game with you ... regardless of alt. He and some others are an exception to the rule. I'm really not trying to poke you in the eye, but I don't think that you are in that league.
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I love this thread.. I fly the D40 a lot.. in a turn fight you have about 4-5 turns max.. use 1 to 2 notches of flaps on/off as needed. Dont forget to juggle your wep too this makes it last longer.
If you set convergance to 600-450-300-150 you will get a great triangle of death for those snap shots. I have out turned A6M's in a turn fight.. the problem is.. it wont last.
If any of you really good jug pilots see me in the arena I would like to wingman.. I think I have all the peices I just havent put it all together.
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Originally posted by Uriel
I love this thread.. I fly the D40 a lot.. in a turn fight you have about 4-5 turns max..
I would suggest keeping at 2 turns / 2 1/2 turns ..with 3 turns being really pushing it considering the E - Bleed of the Jug in turning......
Originally posted by Uriel
If you set convergance to 600-450-300-150 you will get a great triangle of death for those snap shots.
Hmm...this is an interesting approach, might even experiment with it to see the results , offline only though, to see its effects on the drones...... If I am doing snap/deflection shots I want them all hitting the same X spot...
Originally posted by Uriel
I have out turned A6M's in a turn fight.. the problem is.. it wont last.
I would think you out maneuvered them or beat them to the angles game rather than think you "out turned" them.......
good to see people coming along , keep at it :aok
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Jug is great....I was just kidding above. Anyone that knows me in game knows I love the jug.
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when Redtop flies the D25 i just thank my lucky stars i am on his team. :O
edit: oh Red, stick around online for 20 mins then check ur PM box, got something for you.....but it will take a minute to upload.
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The jug is all about attitude matched to ability. You can fly it alot of different ways and do "OK". If you fly it aggresively (and have the ability) then its a deadly bird. If you bite off more then you can chew then its a brick....
In the end its the conductor not the wand that makes the music:aok
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Originally posted by humble
In the end its the conductor not the wand that makes the music:aok
And this guy can flat make a band play beautiful music. He , Batfink , Biggles , Cibizkit, JensK , Nomde , Blukitty , Hajo , Frenchy , Platano , Husky , YUCCA and others fly the jug with very little to 0 difficulties.
You want to learn the Jug.....find these folks and fly with them....when you can last more than a turn or 2 with them...then you will be able to fly it better than most in the MA.
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Jeez, you put me in a tough crowd. I can maybe caddy for a few of those guys:). But if you look at that list you get the idea....a bunch of stone cold killers. Aggresive, opportunistic, unperdictable and unnerving to fly agaisnt. You get down and dirty with any of em and 15 seconds in (if your still alive) you begin to doubt gravity and the basic laws of physics as they roll, stall, zoom and spin with the cuisinart nose ever searching for that patch of cabbage your flying. Normally when you run into a sushi chef in a jug you come out as california roll:huh
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humble is too humble! just the other day we fought in 109E and i definitely got taught a few tricks i hadnt used before. i was writting them down as i spiral to earth missing important plane parts.
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i'm still learning it, once you stick with it and learn it's up and downs it's an awesome plane.
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Originally posted by MjTalon
i'm still learning it, once you stick with it and learn it's up and downs it's an awesome plane.
Yeppers and a ton of fun to fly.
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sad to say, i havent flown the p47 in awhile, i fell in love with the f4u and love flying that bird.. And have made alot more kills then i have with most other planes.. thanks for all the info and help guys.. :)
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Oh yes, one final free advice, that is good for all: If you K/D is better than 3, you are not really fighting.
Good luck. [/B][/QUOTE]
Amen.