Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: swoop777 on September 04, 2007, 05:34:32 AM

Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: swoop777 on September 04, 2007, 05:34:32 AM
Ok here goes, I got to thinking about this the other night while trying to capture a base.  First off here is what I know about radar (I think) and please correct me if I am wrong.  First,  dar bar limit is 500 ft. and second is circle dar is 200 ft., so here is where the thoughts came into play.  If I have myself or a squaddie go take out radar tower at a base (tower clearly destroyed) and we are NOE, technically the radar is out at that given base so why does the base flash as soon as you hit the broken down non operational radar circle?  I could see if there were an enemy within 6.0k which is the current con range, (again I think) then it would be ok for the base to flash but I think the flashes should go if nobody is there to see ya. just think that would be  a little more realistic.  I know this post isnt gonna change it but just wanted some more opinions.
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: Kami on September 04, 2007, 05:38:31 AM
AFAIK both radars are 500ft. and the reason for base under attack flashing is because otherwise gv's could attack undefended bases without any warning what so ever.  Besides it's not fun to take a base without ANY opposition.
Title: Re: Radar"please read me"
Post by: LYNX on September 04, 2007, 05:47:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by swoop777
Ok here goes, I got to thinking about this the other night while trying to capture a base.  First off here is what I know about radar (I think) and please correct me if I am wrong.  First,  dar bar limit is 500 ft. and second is circle dar is 200 ft., so here is where the thoughts came into play.  If I have myself or a squaddie go take out radar tower at a base (tower clearly destroyed) and we are NOE, technically the radar is out at that given base so why does the base flash as soon as you hit the broken down non operational radar circle?  I could see if there were an enemy within 6.0k which is the current con range, (again I think) then it would be ok for the base to flash but I think the flashes should go if nobody is there to see ya. just think that would be  a little more realistic.  I know this post isnt gonna change it but just wanted some more opinions.


It's 500 ft in or out of dar circle.

I used to have this opinion also but on reflection it's not realistic.  If bases never flashed the chance of stopping or knowing of an attack, would fall to happenstance IE a guy taking off and seeing the attack.  

In the real word threes eyes everywhere and someone would be on the blower to fighter command from the get go.
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: swoop777 on September 04, 2007, 06:27:07 AM
perhaps It sould not flash the base until the first shot is fired on it? or the town?
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: Ghosth on September 04, 2007, 07:03:00 AM
Much harder to coad, this is simple, effective, and 3 out of 5 times you can get to target before being intercepted. It really helps if you are very careful about what target you pick.
Title: Re: Re: Radar"please read me"
Post by: hammer on September 04, 2007, 08:07:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by LYNX
...In the real word threes eyes everywhere and someone would be on the blower to fighter command from the get go.
That's the key to the whole idea of the flashing base. Planes at any altitude are observable.  You could argue that a plane within vis range of a base should show up on dot dar whether radar is up or not to simulate reports from ground-based observers..

GVs would pass through the front line on the way to hitting a base. Their location would be reported and any nearby base warned.

I think the game accounts for these aspects fairly well while maintaining playability.

Regards,

Hammer
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: Simaril on September 04, 2007, 08:55:05 AM
Related question:

Many a time I've found bases that are obviously under attack, with huge DAR bars and radar circle down, that are simply not flashing. Assumed that there was some rule about degree of damage that neutralized all flashing, but now I'm wondering if its something else.

Is it related to base condition when I log in? I guess that what I've observed would make sense if AH only signalled "base start flashing" and "base stop flashing," and I came into the arena after the start signal was given. But since the warning matters at least as much as Dar circle info, why wouldn't it also be coded as a base condition and passed on during log in, same as current ownership or barracks condition?
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: Lusche on September 04, 2007, 08:58:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
Related question:

Many a time I've found bases that are obviously under attack, with huge DAR bars and radar circle down, that are simply not flashing. Assumed that there was some rule about degree of damage that neutralized all flashing, but now I'm wondering if its something else.

Is it related to base condition when I log in?  



Yes. It's an old flashing bug.

When you log in, abse that already is under attack will not flash. Only when every enemy has left the "trigger range" (which is different for GV and planes), it's status is kinda reset. A new enemy entering that range will now make it flash normally.
For that very reason, each time I log into low populated EW/MW arenas, I hop from tower to tower at all frontline bases to visually check towns if something is going on there.
Title: Re: Radar"please read me"
Post by: dedalos on September 04, 2007, 09:35:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by swoop777
Ok here goes, I got to thinking about this the other night while trying to capture a base.  First off here is what I know about radar (I think) and please correct me if I am wrong.  First,  dar bar limit is 500 ft. and second is circle dar is 200 ft., so here is where the thoughts came into play.  If I have myself or a squaddie go take out radar tower at a base (tower clearly destroyed) and we are NOE, technically the radar is out at that given base so why does the base flash as soon as you hit the broken down non operational radar circle?  I could see if there were an enemy within 6.0k which is the current con range, (again I think) then it would be ok for the base to flash but I think the flashes should go if nobody is there to see ya. just think that would be  a little more realistic.  I know this post isnt gonna change it but just wanted some more opinions.


Don't hit the radar tower.  If you are coming NOE, all hitting the tower does is tell the enemy there is a mission coming.

That, and there is no opposition off line.  You could try that too.
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: Xargos on September 04, 2007, 09:43:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
Yes. It's an old flashing bug.

When you log in, abse that already is under attack will not flash. Only when every enemy has left the "trigger range" (which is different for GV and planes), it's status is kinda reset. A new enemy entering that range will now make it flash normally.
For that very reason, each time I log into low populated EW/MW arenas, I hop from tower to tower at all frontline bases to visually check towns if something is going on there.


How do you always figure these things out?
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: Lusche on September 04, 2007, 09:48:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
How do you always figure these things out?


I spend too much time online.
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: yanksfan on September 04, 2007, 10:07:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
Related question:

Many a time I've found bases that are obviously under attack, with huge DAR bars and radar circle down, that are simply not flashing.
 


This happens to me constantly. i lost a jug last night when i went into a24 just a minute b4 it was captured, not flashing on my map, i had lost my engine and glided down to about 20 rooks licking their chops at the sight of me, lol

And "Sax" ya need work on your gunnery bro,LOL

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Lusche
Yes. It's an old flashing bug.

When you log in, abse that already is under attack will not flash. Only when every enemy has left the "trigger range" (which is different for GV and planes), it's status is kinda reset. A new enemy entering that range will now make it flash normally.
For that very reason, each time I log into low populated EW/MW arenas, I hop from tower to tower at all frontline bases to visually check towns if something is going on there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i have so many problems with base's not flashing when they should, and base's flashing for no reason, i almost always ignore the info altogether, it has to be more then just when you log on as squadies maps will flash or not and my map is the opposite even when i have been logged on for an hour.
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: Lusche on September 04, 2007, 10:28:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by yanksfan
Tit has to be more then just when you log on as squadies maps will flash or not and my map is the opposite even when i have been logged on for an hour.


Some bases are under continous attack for a lot longer than just one hour...
If your squadie was online before, base will flash on his map.

I have spend quite some time looking for this thing. I have never experienced a base failing to flash when I was already online when the first enemy entered the range. Never.
Any base not flashing was always under attack already when i logged on.

BTW, there is another bug that will make a base continue to flash even when no enemy is around. That can happen when an enemy disco's while being inside the alarm range.
Title: Re: Radar"please read me"
Post by: Shuffler on September 04, 2007, 10:40:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by swoop777
Ok here goes, I got to thinking about this the other night while trying to capture a base.  First off here is what I know about radar (I think) and please correct me if I am wrong.  First,  dar bar limit is 500 ft. and second is circle dar is 200 ft., so here is where the thoughts came into play.  If I have myself or a squaddie go take out radar tower at a base (tower clearly destroyed) and we are NOE, technically the radar is out at that given base so why does the base flash as soon as you hit the broken down non operational radar circle?  I could see if there were an enemy within 6.0k which is the current con range, (again I think) then it would be ok for the base to flash but I think the flashes should go if nobody is there to see ya. just think that would be  a little more realistic.  I know this post isnt gonna change it but just wanted some more opinions.


While dar is out you still have folks on the ground (farmers, ranchers, homes in the sticks, lookouts) that report activity. So it's not as much of a problem as one might first think. It actually is more realistic.
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: Tiger on September 04, 2007, 12:05:20 PM
Always designate 1 or 2 guys to fly LA-7s in front of your mission to the next closest base to set off the warning there before you get to your actualy target.  Deception is your friend.
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: yanksfan on September 04, 2007, 01:15:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
Some bases are under continous attack for a lot longer than just one hour...
If your squadie was online before, base will flash on his map.

I have spend quite some time looking for this thing. I have never experienced a base failing to flash when I was already online when the first enemy entered the range. Never.
Any base not flashing was always under attack already when i logged on.

BTW, there is another bug that will make a base continue to flash even when no enemy is around. That can happen when an enemy disco's while being inside the alarm range.


i have always had this problem, even when say, badhorse, jdjnr, jawbone and i all log into an arena at the same time, they will be flashing and i won't, or i will be flashing and they won't, even with "The Damned" same thing, could it be a glitch in "my" system
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: Laciner on September 04, 2007, 04:16:16 PM
"That's the key to the whole idea of the flashing base. Planes at any altitude are observable."

I believe in real life the British, at least, used sound detectors - a mixture of large concrete dishes, and smaller models:
http://www.doramusic.com/Radar.htm

The Jerries had something called "Ringtrichterrichtungshoerer" and the Japanese had giant tubas:
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/COMMS/ear/ear.htm

And I imagine that, with the short ranges in Aces High, you'd hear planes coming a mile off. Perhaps the windmills have spies in them.
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: Shuffler on September 04, 2007, 05:03:40 PM
They are listening.....

(http://thefulcrum.blogspot.com/RastaSheep.JPG)
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: C(Sea)Bass on September 04, 2007, 05:31:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuffler
They are listening.....

(http://thefulcrum.blogspot.com/RastaSheep.JPG)


Yes I beleive it was the Germans who came up with the sheep scouts in the latter part of the war. I also think the allies used them to detect submarine noise approaching convoys.
Title: Re: Re: Radar"please read me"
Post by: rednex21 on September 04, 2007, 06:54:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by LYNX
It's 500 ft in or out of dar circle

I thought it was 200ft for dar bar and 500ft for red dot in the ring?

Was never sure but if I run NOE i stay below 200.....Let me know (preferibally someone that actually WORKS for HTC and KNOWS for certain.)




Banshee7
Title: Re: Re: Re: Radar"please read me"
Post by: Lusche on September 04, 2007, 06:56:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rednex21

Was never sure but if I run NOE i stay below 200.....Let me know (preferibally someone that actually WORKS for HTC and KNOWS for certain.)

 


You don't kneed to work for them to know for certain
It is and was always 500 ft.
Search BBS or check default arena settings for offline terrain or do a test with a friend online.

:aok
Title: Radar"please read me"
Post by: Rolex on September 04, 2007, 07:00:00 PM
Lusche is correct.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Radar"please read me"
Post by: LYNX on September 04, 2007, 07:04:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rednex21
Quote
Originally posted by LYNX
It's 500 ft in or out of dar circle

I thought it was 200ft for dar bar and 500ft for red dot in the ring?

Was never sure but if I run NOE i stay below 200.....Let me know (preferibally someone that actually WORKS for HTC and KNOWS for certain.)




Banshee7


Everything is 500 ft dar limit everywhere.  Under 200ft it's very hard to see your planes icon when above.  

200ft is the accepted norm because when making low hard turns it's amazing how many will climb over 100 or 200ft doing it.

PS my 1,000 th post.  What an anti climax :(
Title: More confusion.....
Post by: TalonX on September 04, 2007, 07:05:36 PM
Here is what I thought....

1.  Friendlies can see dar bar if you are over 200 feet.
2.  Enemies can see dar bar if you are over 500 feet.
3.  Bases flash when you are within the radar circle in aircraft.
4.  GV's make the town flash, then the base, if you approach the town.   Not sure the range, but you can get fairly close.

Of course, if this is wrong, I have spent a lot of time paying attention to meaningless alt figures.

Title: Re: More confusion.....
Post by: LYNX on September 04, 2007, 07:20:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TalonX
Here is what I thought....

1.  Friendlies can see dar bar if you are over 200 feet.
2.  Enemies can see dar bar if you are over 500 feet.
3.  Bases flash when you are within the radar circle in aircraft.
4.  GV's make the town flash, then the base, if you approach the town.   Not sure the range, but you can get fairly close.

Of course, if this is wrong, I have spent a lot of time paying attention to meaningless alt figures.



1) dar bar is 500ft
2)correct
3)and GV's or PT's
4)Depends where spawn is or if in a plane what direction you come from.  The town or field can flash first depending what your nearest to as you arrive. Always use this as an indicator of enemy direction.  Rule of thumb also is if no dar bar it's usually GV's.
Title: Re: More confusion.....
Post by: Lusche on September 04, 2007, 07:25:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TalonX
Here is what I thought....

1.  Friendlies can see dar bar if you are over 200 feet.
2.  Enemies can see dar bar if you are over 500 feet.
3.  Bases flash when you are within the radar circle in aircraft.
4.  GV's make the town flash, then the base, if you approach the town.   Not sure the range, but you can get fairly close.

Of course, if this is wrong, I have spent a lot of time paying attention to meaningless alt figures.



You can look up all those numbers in offline terrain settings:

1) & 2) "RadarAlt" = 500
There is only this one altitude setting for all radar modes.
If friendlies are able to see your dot at all ect is gouverned by "RadarMode" wich can be set for each country individually

3) "FighterWarningRange" & "BomberWarningRange" = 63360
That's coincidentally the same range as our base radar "TowerBasedRadarRange"

4) "VehicleWarningRange" = 15840. If the town is far away from field, you can even be in town without triggering base flash alarm.


All range values are given in feet.
Title: Re: More confusion.....
Post by: Rolex on September 04, 2007, 07:32:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TalonX
Here is what I thought....

1.  Friendlies can see dar bar if you are over 200 feet.
2.  Enemies can see dar bar if you are over 500 feet.
3.  Bases flash when you are within the radar circle in aircraft.
4.  GV's make the town flash, then the base, if you approach the town.   Not sure the range, but you can get fairly close.

Of course, if this is wrong, I have spent a lot of time paying attention to meaningless alt figures.


Deleted because Lusche gave same answer. ;)
Title: Re: Radar"please read me"
Post by: SFCHONDO on September 04, 2007, 08:08:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by swoop777
Ok here goes, I got to thinking about this the other night while trying to capture a base.  First off here is what I know about radar (I think) and please correct me if I am wrong.  First,  dar bar limit is 500 ft. and second is circle dar is 200 ft., so here is where the thoughts came into play.  If I have myself or a squaddie go take out radar tower at a base (tower clearly destroyed) and we are NOE, technically the radar is out at that given base so why does the base flash as soon as you hit the broken down non operational radar circle?  I could see if there were an enemy within 6.0k which is the current con range, (again I think) then it would be ok for the base to flash but I think the flashes should go if nobody is there to see ya. just think that would be  a little more realistic.  I know this post isnt gonna change it but just wanted some more opinions.



Naa crappy idea. System works fine as is.
Title: Re: Re: More confusion.....
Post by: Lusche on September 04, 2007, 08:24:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
Deleted because Lusche gave same answer. ;)



But..but.. Sir, you've got far more authority! ;)