Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on September 04, 2007, 07:10:26 PM
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Anyone watching this on CMT? I never was an Earnhardt fan, actually I was an Anti-Earnhardt fan. But you have to respect his dedication and skill.
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Always had the highest respect for him not only as a driver but as a pioneer in NASCAR marketing. It certainly isn't the same without him. I was never a fan of him like you but I always enjoyed watching him race, especially at restrictor-plate races.
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cmt?:confused:
Time Warner mixed up the cable channels:furious
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If they would have just listened to him there would be no restrictor plates to begin with.
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
cmt?:confused:
Time Warner mixed up the cable channels:furious
Country Music Television
DirecTv 327
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Couldn't pay me to watch it.
Bronk
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I would'nt pay you to lick the... aww, Skuzzy will get on to me if I do it...
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Originally posted by Bronk
Couldn't pay me to watch it.
Bronk
I never was an Earnhart fan either but the guy was interesting to watch on the track.
I saw a movie about him last year I think or earlier this year. Thought it was cool the way kept after a dream when there was a lot going against him.
Word.
Mark
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Originally posted by rpm
If they would have just listened to him there would be no restrictor plates to begin with.
As much as I respect Dale Sr., as big a fan I was of him as a driver and a person, he was wrong about restrictor plates. There is absolutely no way to run anything remotely resembling stock cars on tracks capable of generating those speeds without some way of severely curtailing horsepower. You simply cannot keep the cars on the ground much past about 210 MPH. Without plates, they'd have been well over 225 MPH by now. At those speeds, one wreck would put a car up into the top of the bleachers, and kill at least 100 people. The cars are completely wrong as far as the aerodynamic shape goes, and they do not have enough tire either. And neither of those things can be changed without making the cars even less like stock cars than the "car of tomorrow".
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It's all about aerodynamics, not carburation.
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Hmmm... I'm a bit surprised they put this in. Dale's second ex-wife was so broke she had to move in with her parents and give him custody of the kids after he won his 2nd Championship.
What's wrong with this picture?
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Originally posted by rpm
Hmmm... I'm a bit surprised they put this in. Dale's second ex-wife was so broke she had to move in with her parents and give him custody of the kids after he won his 2nd Championship.
What's wrong with this picture?
Possibly poor money management on her part? I wouldn't automaticaly blame Dale for that even though it is possible also.
Word,
Mark
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CMT channel = the BET equivalent to cater for ~70% of the population?
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Did you also notice that anytime the SIMPSON safety company was displayed on a uniform, helmet, etc., it was blurred out?
This movie is bringing back some old memories. I sure do miss that man behind the wheel.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Did you also notice that anytime the SIMPSON safety company was displayed on a uniform, helmet, etc., it was blurred out?
This movie is bringing back some old memories. I sure do miss that man behind the wheel.
So that's what was blurred out. I caught a glimpse but not enough to see what it was.
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Originally posted by rpm
It's all about aerodynamics, not carburation.
Show us all how to change the aerodynamics of a stock car to make it stay on the ground sliding sideways at 220MPH, and make it look as close to a real car as the "car of tomorrow", never mind an actual stock car. A stock car turned sideways is a WING. You cannot change that and have it look even remotely like a stock car. The WORLD awaits your genius solution to this problem. Until then, the stupid people will use a restrictor plate to kill off enough horsepower to keep the cars out of the stands when the wreck happens.
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What ever happend with simpson? The last I heard the belts were improperly installed and not faulty?
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Virgil, the restrictor plate predates roof flaps. You could ugly up the aero enough to keep speeds well below 220. I don't know at what point roof flaps lose effectiveness. I have no stack of data in front of me, but I'm sure it's possible. Forcing everyone to run in a pack isn't the solution.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
As much as I respect Dale Sr., as big a fan I was of him as a driver and a person, he was wrong about restrictor plates. There is absolutely no way to run anything remotely resembling stock cars on tracks capable of generating those speeds without some way of severely curtailing horsepower. You simply cannot keep the cars on the ground much past about 210 MPH. Without plates, they'd have been well over 225 MPH by now. At those speeds, one wreck would put a car up into the top of the bleachers, and kill at least 100 people. The cars are completely wrong as far as the aerodynamic shape goes, and they do not have enough tire either. And neither of those things can be changed without making the cars even less like stock cars than the "car of tomorrow".
For all those who cry about restrictor plates I say, fine, we'll put a chicane in the middle of the back straight on all the ovals two miles and over.
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Originally posted by rpm
Virgil, the restrictor plate predates roof flaps. You could ugly up the aero enough to keep speeds well below 220. I don't know at what point roof flaps lose effectiveness. I have no stack of data in front of me, but I'm sure it's possible. Forcing everyone to run in a pack isn't the solution.
No, you cannot create enough drag to kill 500HP, and that's how much HP they kill. The roof flaps came AFTER the plates, and even now, WITH the roof flaps, and down on power, under 210 MPH, the cars get almost high enough to get into the crowd, easily. I was there when Elliot Sadler went over a couple of years ago. Had it been in a different place on the track, the debris would have been IN the crowd. Even if the car wasn't. By now, they'd be over the top of the fence and into the crowd.
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Well why don't we just limit all the cars to 100HP and 55MPH and turn the thing into a rally if you're worried about safety. I'm talkin' bout racin' man!
Personally I wish they were forced to drive 1970's model STOCK cars. Now that would be worth watching.
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Interview with NASCAR Legend Reveals Winning Strategy (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/nascar_coach_reveals_winning)
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
No, you cannot create enough drag to kill 500HP, and that's how much HP they kill. The roof flaps came AFTER the plates, and even now, WITH the roof flaps, and down on power, under 210 MPH, the cars get almost high enough to get into the crowd, easily. I was there when Elliot Sadler went over a couple of years ago. Had it been in a different place on the track, the debris would have been IN the crowd. Even if the car wasn't. By now, they'd be over the top of the fence and into the crowd.
Taller fences
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Originally posted by rpm
Well why don't we just limit all the cars to 100HP and 55MPH and turn the thing into a rally if you're worried about safety. I'm talkin' bout racin' man!
Personally I wish they were forced to drive 1970's model STOCK cars. Now that would be worth watching.
How about we do it your way and kill a couple of drivers, and 200 fans, when a 3400 pound car slides a couple hundred feet down 6-8 rows of fans in their seats? See how long racing lasts after that. Supposedly smart people say the stupidest things when they speak of things they know nothing about. I've raced all my life, and I can tell you for sure the fastest way to stop racing is to have fans get killed.
I'm talking about REALITY man!
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Originally posted by frumpus
Taller fences
A NASCAR type stock car running 225MPH sliding sideways will fly well over 150 feet up into the air. Exactly how tall and how strong do you intend to make this fence and still have fans who pay $100 or more a seat still actually see the race? Even IF you make the fence strong enough to keep the whole car from coming through it (the insurance company will want to see your guarantee in writing, and your $200,000,000 bond to pay off if it doesn't work) if the fans are to see through it then debris will get through it. There you go killing or maiming fans again.
And in case all you diehard fans forgot this, a few years ago, AFTER plates AND roof flaps, there was a wreck at Talladega, the hood flew off of one of the cars and went OVER the fence, INTO the stands, and injured several fans. So the fences already are not tall enough, and the cars already fly high enough to send debris into the stands. So how many dead fans and canceled races will it take to make you happy?
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Virgil, you just want to argue. You know as well as I do that NASCAR could come up with an aero package that would lower the risk. Have you ever heard of Venturi tunnels? I know you watch SPEED-TV, ask Wendi's Dad, he can explain the principle to you.
That's just one example of a way to remove restrictor plates without sacrificing safety. All restrictor plates do is bunch up the field and change it from a horsepower/driver race to a last lap, who survived the big one, track position race.
You can't tell me you would'nt love to watch a 1975 style Daytona/ Talledega race. Design a real COT that can run without restrictor plates and you double the fanbase. You could never design a totally safe race.
What I would love to see is a NASCAR rally race. Close off a hunk of Nevada and Utah highway and let them run flat out like FIA. Now that would be a race. :aok
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Point 1
Today's NASCARS Don't even remotely resemble anything that can be labeled as a "stock car" other then the general overall shape of the body
Point 2
Other then the last 5 laps
The wrecks are by FAR the most interesting part of these races. And the more frequent and nastier the wrecks. The more interesting it is to watch.
Other then that .Watching a bunch of rednecks driving around in a circle who only know how to turn one way, racing? Gimmeabreak.
The only way I can see anyone finding watching this even remotely interesting is if one is about 4 years old, completely chitfaced drunk. or has a collective IQ of about 50.
Then again I've visited my sister who lives just outside of Richmond and been to her neighbors "nascar parties" during the Richmond 500. And the diehards I've seen there that actually watched the thing from start to finish pretty much fit the description above to an exact "T" Cept for maybe the 4 year olds who have the diehard adults beat on the IQ level (must be a degenerative thing as one gets older)
Everyone else watched the first 5 minutes and the last 15 and stopped in now and again in between to watch the replay of the wrecks.
Point 3
Earnhart
I found his passing sad for about a week.
I've seen people get over or at least be able to move on from the loss of a close family member faster then people have been able to move on from this incident.
Earnhart rolled the dice and he lost.
He was a driver. He wasn't a soldier who died in battle, a police or firemen, or rescue worker who died in the line of duty. Or any other even remotely resembling nobel endeavor.
He was a driver in a semi mindless sport who rolled the dice once too often and lost.
Get over it.
Point 4.
All that being said NASCAR I'm sure makes for a nice test bed for new designs. Would be even nicer if the rest of the world only made left turns. but they have proved a car can go fast while turning left.
Point 5 I can run and get away from any of you for saying all this.
Yanno why?
I know how to turn to the right :D
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I pretty much agree with everything you've said, Dred.
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Originally posted by rpm
Virgil, you just want to argue. You know as well as I do that NASCAR could come up with an aero package that would lower the risk. Have you ever heard of Venturi tunnels? I know you watch SPEED-TV, ask Wendi's Dad, he can explain the principle to you.
That's just one example of a way to remove restrictor plates without sacrificing safety. All restrictor plates do is bunch up the field and change it from a horsepower/driver race to a last lap, who survived the big one, track position race.
You can't tell me you would'nt love to watch a 1975 style Daytona/ Talledega race. Design a real COT that can run without restrictor plates and you double the fanbase. You could never design a totally safe race.
What I would love to see is a NASCAR rally race. Close off a hunk of Nevada and Utah highway and let them run flat out like FIA. Now that would be a race. :aok
It has nothing to do with wanting to argue. You simply cannot change the shape of the car enough to keep it on the ground. That's just a fact. The "car of tomorrow" has already strayed far enough that the cars are all EXACTLY alike and look NOTHING like the car they are supposed to be. How much farther do you want to go? For a guy wanting to return to the seventies, you sure are arguing on the side of going forward to the 22nd century.
I do not need a lesson on aerodynamics. Yeah, I know who Bill Venturini is. It doesn't matter. Without RADICALLY altering the roof shape, AND the bottom of the car, you cannot change the fact that turned sideways it is a WING, and it WILL FLY. The roof flaps would have to exceed the size of the roof to be effective at 225MPH. Further, the roof flaps DO NOT WORK if the car doesn't rotate more than 90 degrees from straight forward.
I suppose you think that GM, Ford, and Chrysler just haven't tried to keep the cars from flying, when they are sideways. And I suppose you think NASCAR hasn't either. The aero budget for any ONE of the big three would run several rural counties for a few years. Never mind what NASCAR has spent. They KNOW they MUST keep the cars out of the crowd. They fly NOW. If NASCAR could fix that, they would. That's a plain simple fact.
By the way, my friends in the dyno rooms (I sell Joe Gibbs oil, I'm a dealer, my rep is Lake Speed Jr.) say they've hit 850HP + on an unrestricted engine. Best estimate is that IF they could keep one on the ground, a current Cup car could hit 235 MPH at Talladega, and 230 MPH at Daytona, with that HP. If they go 50 feet in the air at 180 MPH, imagine how high they'll go at 230 MPH.
Now, if you say "use aero to slow the cars down" then you create a spec aero package, and everyone has the same HP. ALL the top teams are within 5-10 HP, set up makes the rest of the difference. IF you could create a spec aero package with enough drag to kill 30 MPH, all you do is use up the other 500HP. So now you have the same thing as a plate, it's just aero and not a plate. You have no solution.
By the way, just so you know, you're watching television, and the Venturini's are TV commentators. I work on race cars for a living. I talk directly to the people they interview. One of my customers has a son who is a NASCAR official, I have a direct inroad to what is going on. Actually several. A bunch if the NASCAR people, racers and officials, are from right here where I live, work, and race. A lot of the drivers and crew chiefs started up the ladder right here. The Greens, the Mayfields, the Waltrips, the Marlins, and the Hamiltons (on of the guys I race with every week, and buy my tires from works in Hamilton's shop) and several others. I'm not guessing about this stuff, I'm talking to the people who LIVE it.
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Turned sideways, any car is a wing. Should we stop racing??
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Originally posted by rpm
Turned sideways, any car is a wing. Should we stop racing??
NOT true. NO.
But you just keep thinking that way.
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ref: take off the plates
Papyrus' NASCAR racing sim (2002 I think?) has a track in the game where the cars run without plates. Some of you know Papyrus ..they weighed each part of a NASCAR stock car and plugged in a very good physics engine.
It's a 3 mile paper-clip layout .. equal turns at each end, massive banks,
..called the 'Coca-Cola' track.
You get 4 or so cars drafting and you can really smoke down the straights,
each a mile long, with the turns half mile each.
Get a little outta shape, get a batch of cars goin ballistic, and you can get some very serious air.
Some of the Nascar drivers took a crack at it .. overall opinion was they'd never build a real track like it. It's fun in a sim to get a couple hundred feet of air in a crash .. not in real life, thanks.
Goin back to the late '60's early '70's ..fire, no traction, crude cages, .. NASCAR has come a long way.
Those who think it takes little talent have no clue.
-GE aka Frank
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Watched the show and enjoyed it a lot.
I was a Dale fan back in the day. The show had some really good footage from earlier years. It also reminded me why I hardly ever watch NASCAR anymore.
With the loss of Dale ,and those like him to NASCAR, a whole breed goes along with them. It`s always nice to see the little guy that had to start at the bottom and actualy work their way up, old school style, win and do good at their occupation choice. It shows class, pride and determination.
NASCAR was great when it was put the car on the track, put a driver behind the wheel and let them actualy race for the win.
Now it is big, big business, Bobsie twin cars and the new drivers all have a silver spoon stuck up their.............ummmm in their mouth for the most part.
It`s about as entertaining as watching grass grow.
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Originally posted by rpm
Anyone watching this on CMT? I never was an Earnhardt fan, actually I was an Anti-Earnhardt fan. But you have to respect his dedication and skill.
Ditto here, never cared for NASCAR That much anyways. He was good at what he did though.
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It's all physics.
Limit the speed capability and you limit the kinetic energy available for bad things to happen.
Restrictor plates are the easiest fix. Can be changed to suit individual tracks.
Spoiler is next best, but ..it's angle of attack limited. Backwards its not a spoiler anymore and downright dangerous.
NASCAR could mandate a smaller cubic inch rule..again ..
.. but them wascal engine guys would still get too much power out of 'em :)
'Back in the Day' highlights why they dont do '70's stock cars anymore.
Minor changes in directions overwhelmed the tires completely ..you could not 'recover' at all.
The drivers of the era talk about bein able to burn the back tires the whole back stretch ..them big blocks were mean an nasty :)
Ideally .. eliminate physical presence of spectators .. have it all big screen from a mile away.
No plates.
No fences.
Return of the big blocks.
'Off' run areas big enough.
Fastest guy wins -evil grin-
(can you imagine the push in the garages for more power, better traction, etc, :)
-GE (imagines a hi-tech 500+ cube Hemi truly blastin down any backstretch really pushin the limits.. ya .. come get some, Toyota)
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N.A.S.C.A.R
Non
Athletic
Sport
Centered
Around
Rednecks
:D
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I stopped watching when my driver quit: Ernie Irvan.
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Nascar and Indy are just IROC.
If I wanted too see same design racing and no innovation, maybe I would be interested.
When it is all just driver personalities, well WWE puts on a better show.