Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Mister Fork on September 06, 2007, 03:47:45 PM
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Knowing there are more opinions about the AvA than we often have players in the arena, I'd thought I would ask the questions.
1. As players, what do you guys want to see out of the AvA as a player/historical match-up, player managed arena?
2. What would you like to see in the AvA as a player in one year, and in four years?
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
Knowing there are more opinions about the AvA than we often have players in the arena, I'd thought I would ask the questions.
1. As players, what do you guys want to see out of the AvA as a player/historical match-up, player managed arena?
2. What would you like to see in the AvA as a player in one year, and in four years?
You said vision so, how about the MA settings on seeing red. No need for plane type or distance. It is just very hard to find people and very easy for the cherry pickers to sneak up on you. You cant have SA if you cant see them. At 3K they can close in extremely fast when you are fighting a couple of other guys already.
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One Vision (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfp9bzzTbBw) :noid
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the vision (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uteBX4_wxXk)
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I have a vision, television?
edit: to answer the question number two, I'd like to see more dedicated folks playing in the AvA, preferably people who know how to fly and behave and whom wouldn't whine about every misdeed. A good-natured community willing to fight, no matter the planes or the opposition.
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Originally posted by Panzzer
to answer the question number two, I'd like to see more dedicated folks playing in the AvA, preferably people who know how to fly and behave and whom wouldn't whine about every misdeed. A good-natured community willing to fight, no matter the planes or the opposition.
I'll go with that.
- oldman
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I also would like to see the icon range extended. Maybe not 6K but more than 3k. Like dedalos said, it really only benefits the cherry pickers.
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Originally posted by Slash27
One Vision (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfp9bzzTbBw) :noid
:D
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I flew the CT for about 18 months during and after my stint as a trainer here. I haven't flown the AvA much since there is rarely anyone in it. I recognize that my thoughts and comments might be dated....but from wht I read here little has changed....
Personally I think the setup in fine. Icon range isnt ever really an issue if you know your plane and your plan. The relevant part about the comment above is the scenario of engagement. Back in the early 2000's the CT was the elite arena...it was as much of a step up as going from RR to FR was in the old AW days. The CT was on par with the mid 90s FR arena in AW before it got diluted by alot of defections to WB's and the influx of alot of new players. This is not an elitist or snobish comment and isn't meant as a reflection on relative abilities.
When I made the move to FR in AW my very 1st set of hops I ran into -HR-, Rocketman, Big-T and a few others. Total head count want more then 30 or so...I was a lone sheep and obviously got spanked 40 or 50 times...but always "even up"...so I kept on coming. Every 3 or 4 fights someone threw me a bone (piece of advice) or a compliment on "improvement" (8 seconds vs 5 or a few loops vs dead on merge). Then low and behold I actually had a fight...I didnt win...but I didn't punch out in 15 seconds either.
The next day I did a bit better and even manages a hit or two (no W's)....
Well on the 4th or 5th day all of a sudden one of the vets switched on over and we were 2 on 2...then 3 on 3 and I was a "vet" at the bottom of the food chain. And I got more and more constructive advice...and a week or so later I got an invite from the CO of the 176th composite
AW (which was actually a pretty good squad back then in FR. And I was schooled in the way things were done....1st noob I ran into....guess what I passed it on. I never jumped a fight, I never let more then a few fights go without a "kind" word...a week or two in I switched sides and flew wing for him. And one by one the FR arena grew. Now we had 5 RR arenas and only 1 FR back then. But if a guy tried to go FR he had helping hands....
The CT had that, much more so then the MA did then or now. But "now" the MA enviornment is far and away better then the CT (at the end) and from what I see and read...still is. That is a reflection of the people who fly it regularly (and again isnt an attack but an observation). You see and read posts from Kong and storch and you cant help and sense some perceived "elitism" totally unsupported by either status or ability.
If in fact you want the AvA to achieve what the CT had you need to somehow address the underlying issue. The sad reality is that it was proven in the CT that a few bad apples can in fact ruin a small barrel....
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Originally posted by humble
When I made the move to FR in AW my very 1st set of hops I ran into -HR-, Rocketman, Big-T and a few others.
I was there too (Oldma).
The picture you're looking at was taken a year or more ago. Stop in, Humble. We have a lot of new people, and they're helping out the new folks, just like the old days.
I add this proviso, as others have before me: Don't judge based upon one or two nights. Spend a week with us.
- oldman
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I check every time to see if its got an yone there.....95% headcount is 0. I know Bat and some of my squaddies try and stop in on weekends...I'll keep on looking...
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Originally posted by Oldman731
I was there too (Oldma).
The picture you're looking at was taken a year or more ago. Stop in, Humble. We have a lot of new people, and they're helping out the new folks, just like the old days.
I add this proviso, as others have before me: Don't judge based upon one or two nights. Spend a week with us.
- oldman
And, if/when things get frustrating, just come back another time. Had some really fun fights tonite, and got some valuable practice even though a few were consistently pwning me. . Many were waiting out fights and coming in after one concluded. Excellent fun!
Then gangs started descending, and unknowns didn't honor 1v1s. Rather than make an issue, I just left. I find it works much better for me than complaining about it...but I'll be back!
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Can we get this back to the original thread? :rolleyes:
I would like to see the setup fixed so that base captures won't fubar the arena. Historic plane sets along with accurate scenarios would be great. Options for people to fly different missions without turning it into a main arena furfest. I don't think it would because the limited plane sets would keep most of the problem children away.
I admit that you can have some good fights but currently the arena is little more than a dueling arena with limited planesets. I've mentioned this in another thread only to be berated by many and have a good discussion sidetracked.
I still think that this arena has unrealized potential.
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Originally posted by 1cajun
Can we get this back to the original thread? :rolleyes:
I would like to see the setup fixed so that base captures won't fubar the arena. Historic plane sets along with accurate scenarios would be great. Options for people to fly different missions without turning it into a main arena furfest. I don't think it would because the limited plane sets would keep most of the problem children away.
I still think that this arena has unrealized potential.
Being a player run arena, it is up to the players to realize their ideas on how and what they want the AvA to be.
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Sorry, I thought the post was asking for input, I withdraw my comments. :confused:
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How are you offended by what I said? It was not a dig at your ideas or meant as an insult.
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:confused: (hugs 1cajun);)
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"Being a player run arena, it is up to the players to realize their ideas on how and what they want the AvA to be."
No offense taken, I saw in your avatar that you are an AvA staff member and I thought that maybe this question was directed at the players that have frequented the arena for a longer period of time. I am new here having just come over from warbirds a couple of months ago.
Again, no offense taken. :aok
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Well glad to have you Cajun.
And "Staffers" are players too.:D
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With that in mind cajun, what do you want to see/get out of the AvA as a player? How do you see that in one year, and then in four? :)
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I posted in another thread a few mins ago, it is up to the elder players/PEERS to set the tone and game play of this arena.......
basically same principle as humble spoke of regarding another flight sim of long ago.....
berating others, exercising certian gameplay styles and negative ranting will always undermine any progression any player or group of players are trying to obtain for the better of all...
got to weed out the bad seeds if you want to get back to what once was, and to be honest I have no idea on how to accomplish a feat of this nature without public ridicule.....
what I would like to see for the AvsA in a year? everyone getting along and having fun
what I would like to see in 4 years? 4times of my last answer regarding one year..........
if you're not having fun, then why waste your time?
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I'm tired and in a bad mood so I'll just come to the point:
The source of damn near all the problems in the AvA was something I said way back in 2001 - the weekly setup changes. That one single thing allowed the growth of the "unwritten rules" which pressured out aircraft types, pushed out valid game-play strategies (bombing, taking fields, etc) and turned the AvA into a single concept activity - the 1v1 high-angles dogfight. There is no room in the AvA for coordinated activities, as a matter of fact coordinated activities are not only frowned upon they are actively whined and verbally attacked when they happen. There isn't a single thing in the AvA that will interest or hold a squadron and squadrons are where the real population lives.
You aren't going to get rid of the unwritten rules or the pressures to keep aircraft and game-play strategies out of the AvA until you attrack enough squadrons to muscle them out. And you won't get squadrons interested if the setup changes every week.
I've played the AvA off and on since I came to AH and a lot of strategies have been tried to bring in a bigger crowd and not one of them worked because not one of them even attempted to tackle the primary problem.
If you want to increase the population in the AvA give people something to sink their teeth into. Give them something they can get into and then let them get in and stay in for awhile. If you pick a popular AO and era you'll build a community out of it. Once you've got the community you can introduce a little variety. After all, you've had variety in the AvA and you can pretty much see where it's got you.
my 0.02
asw
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As a player, I of course hope to become a better stick and have more things come naturally to me while in a fight.
I would also like to see the trash talkin and belittling of other players on CH200 come to a stop. I too, do this for enjoyment and am too old for this king of the sandbox junk. If I have a good fight - I'm glad, if I lose - then hopefully I learn. But while some like to gloat, I hope they don't think I am losing any sleep. If getting shot down bothered me than obviously wouldn't get in the air. :D
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I couldn't disagree with you more asw (now there's a surprise huh). if the AvA is but a microcosm of the MA then it is redundant and a complete flop.
while some may argue that the AvA is a complete flop now I respond that one man's meat is another man's poison. as an example of how great a place the AvA can be I will use my experience last night.
when I logged on there were about 15 players on, most of them better than average players, one an incredibly smooth and gifted player who I prefer to play against but who usually plays axis.
each side had a marquis player which while well respected within the community their preferred style of play is abhorrent to me and I hold them each in contempt. fortuitously they were on opposing teams and cancelled each other out. the cancellation between these two pretty much left open ground for the low slow fight I generally prefer. and there were more than a few of them.
last night 200 was mostly polite when I logged on and remained so the whole time. If you and others think I'm the problem on 200 I suggest that you treat me the way you would like to be treated and you will have no problems. I seldomly start any of the exchanges but I do respond. having absented myself from the arena for a while what I have sen upon my return was that the place is the same but some of the names have changed. as an example I saw a player which is new to the arena and in my opinion quite skilled get called names by dedalos express his being bothered by this and then log off. I surmise that he smacked dedalos down and received his wrath for it.
there were two guys on the allied team capturing bases so they were useless to allieds. the thing with the base capture in the AvA is not that anyone is against it per se but that if carried out to it's ultimate of winning the war the arena is reset and then may be down for a day or two. this has happened in the past pretty often. say that there is a scenario you particularly enjoy and it's out of play for one or two days because a player won the war. would that bother you a bit? it does me. the other negative aspect is with the arena down for a day or two new players log on find it porked and cannot play. with the other difficulties that this arena has there is really no need for a senseless player generated one. I jealously guard the arena from the war winners for these reasons. I called them on it politely and they did not respond but continued winning the war. luckily they logged off before winning.
to summarize last night for me there were the following.
1. good fights almost non stop
2. minimal 200 guff
3. a very good time
the AvA in my opinion was a resounding success last night inspite of the fact that it was a japanese planeset which I loathe and there were fifteen people on. you can't get the number of challenging fights I had last night in the MA if there were 600 people on because in the MA those 200 people per side are avoiding each other in an effort to win the war. gladly that doesn't happen often in the AvA.
to you new player who may chance upon this long rant. stop in the AvA but bring your fighting gear. if you stay in this arena you will become a better than average cartoon fighter pile-it in a very short time. if you need help ask me I will take the time to teach you as much as I can about the little I know.
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Originally posted by storch
as an example I saw a player which is new to the arena and in my opinion quite skilled get called names by dedalos express his being bothered by this and then log off. I surmise that he smacked dedalos down and received his wrath for it.
Could you please quote what I said? I hope you are not talking about the "Sorry, I was getting sleepy" comment are you? :rofl I think thats as bad as I got on 200 this month in there.
But please, do quote what I said or you may receive my wrath for it too :noid
BTW, he died :rofl
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Originally posted by humble
Personally I think the setup in fine. Icon range isnt ever really an issue if you know your plane and your plan.
Hey humble,
Knowing my plane is no help when dar is not accurate and I cant see where the bad guys are. How can I make a plan like that. The way it is know it only helps the guy coming in late in the fight
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I don't know the details ded. but you know how both you and I can be abrasive. :D
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If I remember correctly we stopped base capture ages ago because we would log in and find half the map taken and all we wanted to do was fly not take bases back.
Personally I don't see anything wrong with the current setup. Just need to get used to the 3k thing again but if that changed to 4 it would not bother me at all. Whatever is realistic.
I think the real need is more organized operations. Zeros vs p40s is only real fun when you have 40s intercepting zeros escorting vals etc. BOB is incredibly fun when you get hurries intercepting ju88s (or trying) escorted by 109es. When you get endless 1v1 furballs I think it is a bit one dimensional and the whole point of the AvA setups is to replicate the interactions the planes had historically. The p47 is a fine plane but it is a REALLY fine plane at 30k intercepting enemy interceptors.
Historically the 1v1 was not common in wwII. That was more of a ww1 activity. Many of these planes were never designed to be flown the way we fly them and I think flying them correctly (BnZ, high alt vertical fights, etc) add a great bit of fun to the AvA when you can get them.
Sadly I have not seen this yet in the month or so I have been back. But I am still gaining my feet again so I do not mind.
Also... I really do not think the Ava is broken right now. I think it is just fine the way it is but I am not against change.
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Originally posted by storch
I don't know the details ded. but you know how both you and I can be abrasive. :D
Only to special people like you bud. So this is just another one of your posts spewing out garbage then eh?
Here is what happened. Right after my gear came up, the guy you are talking about shows up 3K over my head and begins to BnZ. I am heading away from the hord so we can have a fight. The ace in question however continues to BnZ taking a shot from 800 out and then climbing back up. This is the same guy that was asking people to get in a spit so he can see how the Ki would do against it. So, after about 10 minutes of this I did warn him that he should either fight or I was going to end it. He continued to shoot from 800 out and climbing up so I finally turned around and gave him a face full of 20s. So, then I typed on 200 "Sorry bud, but I was getting sleepy" :rofl I was. He was boring me to death and I apologized for HOing him.
He came back and cherry picked me several times after that so your theory about him logging is also BS. You know, like your new persona about fighting and posting about good fights. I have yet to see you or your squadies in anything less than 3 vs 1.
He would make a great addition to your squad btw :rofl
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he was asking and we are considering. ded if there is a continuos furball happening how can you find a 1v1? anyways there is no new persona same guy as always.
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Originally posted by storch
he was asking and we are considering. ded if there is a continuos furball happening how can you find a 1v1? anyways there is no new persona. I am still full of crap and hot air
:rofl Finding one, and jumping in in an existing 1 vs 1 are two different things aren't they? You are right, when there is a furball you cant find 1 vs 1, but ganging someone 3 vs 1 or just come in for the pick does not make furball either does it? And you always have the option of leaving the 1 vs 1 alone and wait for the next or get the winner.
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c'mon ded all of us have been on both sides of that scenario. no need to poke me in the eye about it.
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I'm glad you had a good time in the AvA last night storch. You're response to my post last night illustrates my point.
Given the size of the player base in AH, the AvA should be able to draw and hold 150-200 players and field 50-60 players on an average night but it doesn't. When 15 players in the AvA is a good night there is something seriously wrong with the setup philosophy.
ergRTC -you make a good point on milk-running, but the tools are there for the CM's to make the reward for doing it not worth the effort it takes.
In answer to the original questions:
#1 - I'd like to see long setups with rolling plane sets - three months minimum. And I'd like the arena settings configured so that base capture is possible but difficult and see object down-times reduced so that a good fight can't be killed.
#2 In a year I'd like to be able to log in to play and have a good sized battle going on every time I do. In four years time I'd like to see the arena have a few legendary rivalries between players and squadrons (and I'm not talking about the text-buffer and bbs purse fights that currently pass for rivalries).
another 0.02
asw
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Originally posted by storch
c'mon ded all of us have been on both sides of that scenario. no need to poke me in the eye about it.
Not really, unless I know it is you or TB on the other side :rofl
I think you poked me first when you said I made someone log off after he met my wrath :rofl You don't want to get poked, don't start poking. Although, I enjoy poking you and I think the same goes for you too :D
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asw,
barring a major crash on the MA servers I don't think I have seen more that eighty players on ever and that was back in AH1.
the change from I toII caused many players with marginal systems to leave. since AHII we have never seen the level of involvement we were accustomed to seeing prior to the change.
in my experience when we do have that many players on it is absolute bedlam, reminiscent of the monkeys in the kitchen in the movie "Jumanji" and 200 makes a typed exchange between slash27 and I seem like a polite garden party exchange of pleasantries.
I think that be it's very premis the AvA will have limited appeal and that's the way of it.
contrary to what humble opines I believe that the squads like JG3, VF27, 880, 13th sentai, 332nd and others now forgotten made the old CT the great place for squad competition. last night JG54 vs 80th headhunters had some nice fights without a single cross exchange on 200 from either side inspite of some vultching and HO'n occurring.
naturally rivalries between the squads often spilled over onto the text buffer and subsequently the BBS.
as in any competetive endeavor sometimes tempers flair and elbows are thrown that is the nature of male competition and as in any other event of this type once the competition is over usually the competitors can have a beer and be friendly. that final element is what is missing to complete the cycle in here and possibly why some of these seething exchanges upset some of the weaker players.
the point is that there is no one event or occurrance, no one personality or group of players that has caused the AvA to remain relatively empty the truth is that it's a combination of many factors many of which are simply completely out anyone's control.
there are some elements that are within our control and one of those is 200. we all know who responds when buttons are pushed. we can all name those players. soon there will be new players who will react in similar fashion as there have been some notables in the past.
personally as I have had to quit drinking gobs of beer daily I tend to be far less bellicose so if you see any difference in me that would be it. no beer = mellower storch. however the innate and just below the surface aggression that is me is there, it's always there and will be until my soul departs from the flesh.
with players such as myself and others who know who they are but will remain unnamed by me it's simply better to not engage them when they shoot you down or whatever. I promise you this if you leave me alone nine times out of ten I will leave you alone.
or not but remember it takes a minimum of two to argue.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Not really, unless I know it is you or TB on the other side :rofl
I think you poked me first when you said I made someone log off after he met my wrath :rofl You don't want to get poked, don't start poking. Although, I enjoy poking you and I think the same goes for you too :D
sorry I heard about it from another player so I should not have commented on that.
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I agree with storch...
I also do not see # for # sake as something to strive for. 30-40 player is probably more than I would even like. Somewhere around 20 is great but I am really not sure.
as far as
ergRTC -you make a good point on milk-running, but the tools are there for the CM's to make the reward for doing it not worth the effort it takes.
The reward is not the base capture in AvA. All we would do is drop the eggs and try to get home. We never had any intention (in those days) of capturing anything.
Anybody remember back in AW when some of the squads would do those infiltrate and extract missions? They would have to get deep into enemy territory, pick up some missing squaddie and get back alive. I always had to laugh at those (in a positive 'that is too cool' kind of way).
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Well seeing as you already have what you want I'll leave you to it and wish you luck.
asw
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I wouldn't mind seeing smaller maps, taking into account the highest number of players I've ever seen in there (aside from MA crash) is about 20-30.
Also making base objects have a really short downtime so that milkrunners can have their fun but not the landgrabbers, because that porks the map on a reset.
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The reward is not the base capture in AvA. All we would do is drop the eggs and try to get home. We never had any intention (in those days) of capturing anything.
Helo AvA,
I think this arena should mimic WWII combat as close as possible.
I would love to see more team work in this arena. 1 v 1 was not the way WWII was fought. That was a good way to get ganged and then killed. I think every pilot in WWII would jump to have a 3 or 4 v 1 situation in their favor. The more the merrier as in lets kill this guy before he gets lucky and kills one of us.
Squads like the 332nd Mongrels <> running missions always makes for a fun fight. daddog even lets us know their plans in advance :noid
So more squadron participation would be great
:aok
gusman44
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So if Im following this thread right.. if a squad (say 15 to 18 strong) logs in to run missions to close and capture base's,and does get a reset it will shut the arena down for days?is that right?(new,just asking)
IMO it should reflect ww2 as it was,squads/lonewolves working together for a common victory(grab land,move the front,destroy factories..ect) for either side.The ww2 where I come from a reset was a good thing,typing on the "all"channel we win..taunting them to try it again.
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Are you WWI pilots? If you are I will shut up and go play somewhere else.
You have what you ask for in the MA. Why do you need another one?
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Originally posted by dedalos
Are you WWI pilots? If you are I will shut up and go play somewhere else.
You have what you ask for in the MA. Why do you need another one?
I is confused. Who are you talking to?
:confused:
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Originally posted by bkwolf
So if Im following this thread right.. if a squad (say 15 to 18 strong) logs in to run missions to close and capture base's,and does get a reset it will shut the arena down for days?is that right?(new,just asking)
IMO it should reflect ww2 as it was,squads/lonewolves working together for a common victory(grab land,move the front,destroy factories..ect) for either side.The ww2 where I come from a reset was a good thing,typing on the "all"channel we win..taunting them to try it again.
if the map is reset the arena shuts down and someone from the staff (all gainfully employed and serving in a voluntary capacity as staffers) must come in and reset the arena manually. I don't think anyone is opposed to base capture and if that's your thing then my suggestion is to capture a base once captured switch to the opposing team and recapture it from the other side but don't pork the arena. the war winners like to win as we all do it's just that in the AvA their win is everyone else's loss of an arena.
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Originally posted by scottydawg
I is confused. Who are you talking to?
:confused:
is something bothering your eye?
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Originally posted by dedalos
You don't want to get poked, don't start poking. Although, I enjoy poking you and I think the same goes for you too :D
The BBS is no place for this homo-erotic banter. Keep this stuff in private messages.
(Disclaimer: Although I regret that this thread is being hijacked, how can one take anything serious that uses the word "vision" in the subject line. Not that I have never had a "vision", I just assumed there was something funny in the brownies.)
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Originally posted by bkwolf
So if Im following this thread right.. if a squad (say 15 to 18 strong) logs in to run missions to close and capture base's,and does get a reset it will shut the arena down for days?is that right?(new,just asking)
Reset doesn't shut down the arena, but messes all settings - such as planes available and whatnots - which don't get reloaded until a staff member gets in to the arena to do that.
Oops, Storch explained it already. :)
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Originally posted by storch
is something bothering your eye?
Eye don't think so.
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Originally posted by scottydawg
Eye don't think so.
eye suspect maybe so. you have felt his wrath.
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AHH thanks for the Info,good to know these little things
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I know I know, I'm not, nor I was regular, but here's my take.
1.) Arrange with HTC to disable scoring, including the stats if necessary.
2.) Limit the plane set to 2-3 max per side. History does not make great gameplay (you can still have historical 'specials' every once in a while).
3.) Make clear that teamwork is fine, but care needs to be taken to balance the sides and fights. 2-3 vs 1, ok, anything more is sort of excessive.
4.) Make AvA staffers be present more often and repeat to new players (and vets) as often as necessary what is expected from players.
5.) Have good fights...
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1.) I like the idea of eliminating ranking. Scoring (I believe) is slightly more valuable, such as K/D ratio and things like that. However a comparative ranking system is pointless in the AvA IMO.
2.) Good luck trying to find comparable aircraft that would make for good fights if you only have 6.
4.) I don't know how you would 'make' volunteers show up more often. Seems kind of counterintuitive.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
I know I know, I'm not, nor I was regular, but here's my take.
1.) Arrange with HTC to disable scoring, including the stats if necessary.
2.) Limit the plane set to 2-3 max per side. History does not make great gameplay (you can still have historical 'specials' every once in a while).
3.) Make clear that teamwork is fine, but care needs to be taken to balance the sides and fights. 2-3 vs 1, ok, anything more is sort of excessive.
4.) Make AvA staffers be present more often and repeat to new players (and vets) as often as necessary what is expected from players.
5.) Have good fights...
those are all great ideas
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Originally posted by scottydawg
2.) Good luck trying to find comparable aircraft that would make for good fights if you only have 6.
Some setups have 5-6 models to choose from per side, from early to late war, which doesn't make for good fights.
Originally posted by scottydawg
4.) I don't know how you would 'make' volunteers show up more often. Seems kind of counterintuitive.
What did they volunteer for? And I didn't mean it forever. Just for a while until "what AvA is about" get imprinted in people's minds.
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Personally I like setups with a couple of fighters on each side (and sometimes just one) and a selection of support aircraft. I think BOB is really the best match of all. We used to do north africa once in a while and that was very good.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Some setups have 5-6 models to choose from per side, from early to late war, which doesn't make for good fights.
What did they volunteer for? And I didn't mean it forever. Just for a while until "what AvA is about" get imprinted in people's minds.
True about the models, I guess I'd have to see, it's definitely worth a try...
I was under the impression that the AvA staff is all volunteer. Maybe instead of asking them to spend more time individually in the arena, they could induct more people into AvA staff to spread the load. In any case I agree that more of a 'moderated' presence in the AvA would definitely help civility and understanding of the 'soft rules'.
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why is there not a computer(server..whatever) to reset it automaticly ?
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Originally posted by ergRTC
Personally I like setups with a couple of fighters on each side (and sometimes just one) and a selection of support aircraft. I think BOB is really the best match of all. We used to do north africa once in a while and that was very good.
several of us have asked for this periodically but the staff doesn't seem to find that arrangement appealing.
I would love to see some plane v plane set ups and they could be rotated every other day but that would mean additional work for the volunteer staff.
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Great ideas all. I can definately look into disabling the scoring via Skuzzy so I'll see what it takes to do that.
As for running longer rolling plane sets for like 3 months, we could definately take a longer-term approach to particular setups. We've ran rolling-plane-sets but typically they only last one month. What you're talking about is doing this over a much longer period.
Couple more questions
1) Are historical matchups more important to the AvA than the gameplay?
2) If you think historical match-up's are important, what do you envision setups looking like? Length?
3) If you think gameplay but with a historical footnote as important, what do you envision setups looking like? Length?
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3) for me please. here's the rub though or at least what I consider to be the rub. I'll lay out a scenario
It's the pacific the IJN is attacking wake the beleaguered defenders are running outta planes (they only have 20 odd F2As and 6 F4F-3s) oops we're already outta planes as we have neither model and in any event the A6M2s and oscars (oops no oscars)....... play that out for every possible set up.
HTC's cash cow is the MA. we here are a few grumpy and often pedantic looneys who are nothing in HTCs budgetary considerations. if anything we are a zero in the left hand column at best.
the other thing is I guarantee you I would not show up very often for a pacific set up. in the ETO/MTO I would be more interested and the setups would be more successful because of the greater availability of airframes and maps but even then after three months of Hurricanes HO'n I would be a bit frustrated with the AvA.
I think the week by week changes are perfect. I also am a great fan of variety. I think of the great players and often wonder why they return to the same fights against the same people. us less than stellar players at least have the challenge of not having completely mastered the game and each new player poses different challenges. I think the game needs to be like that I think the staff should think on their responsibility and attempt different things. there are ideas yet to be tried that are doable with the inventory at hand. do more of those. this past setup was one those. I want to thank shifty for thinking it and I want to thank the staff for featuring it. I enjoyed it far more than I thought I might.
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Storch,
What kind of plane match ups would you like to see?
Using MTO/ETO as the guide
Spit I and Hurri I vs 109E and 110C (1939-40 Battle of France, B of B)
Spit V, Hurri II vs 109F and 190A5 (ETO 1941)
Spit V, Spit IX vs 109F, G 190A5 (ETO 1942)
Tiffie, Spit IX vs 109G and 190A5 A8 (RAF ETO vs LW 1943)
P47D11, P38J vs 109Gs and 190A5, A8 (USAAF vs LW ETO 1943
Hurri IIc, P40B and E vs 109E, 109F 110C (MTO 1941)
etc etc?
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I'm in ASW's camp on this one.
We've done rolling planesets before with the BOB map. It went over pretty damn well, and drew bigger numbers.
As it is now, its just a payed form of the old dead H2H. Maybe we oughta advertise for more squeakers??
Make the AvA the AvA. Not a furball island.
Just my humble $.02
RTR
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I would love to see one allied and one axis plane per every two days for a month.
202vspit1
202vspitv
109Evspit1
109FvspitV
202vP40E
202vP38G
110CvHurriI
for starters
I think the 110c is as overmodelled as the hurris are leave those two alone. I would never use the HurriIIc in the game it is wildly and rediculously overmodelled. It's so far off that it really has no place in an AvA setup IMHO.
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Originally posted by scottydawg
Maybe instead of asking them to spend more time individually in the arena, they could induct more people into AvA staff to spread the load. In any case I agree that more of a 'moderated' presence in the AvA would definitely help civility and understanding of the 'soft rules'.
Im for it.
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Originally posted by storch
I would love to see one allied and one axis plane per every two days for a month.
202vspit1
202vspitv
109Evspit1
109FvspitV
202vP40E
202vP38G
110CvHurriI
for starters
I think the 110c is as overmodelled as the hurris are leave those two alone. I would never use the HurriIIc in the game it is wildly and rediculously overmodelled. It's so far off that it really has no place in an AvA setup IMHO.
agreed on the planeset matches but maybe mix in some lw matches
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Originally posted by dedalos
Hey humble,
Knowing my plane is no help when dar is not accurate and I cant see where the bad guys are. How can I make a plan like that. The way it is know it only helps the guy coming in late in the fight
ded,
That wasnt really aimed at you, it was more of a general observation. I'm still amazed at the differance between the MA, DA and FSO/AvA enviornment as it relates to the mental processing of information. In the MA you have to much time...your often looking at cons that dont engage or sit and wait to cherry pick.
In the DA you know a lot before the fight so your looking at lift vector orientation, angle off other stuff.
You come to the AvA or FSO and it changes again. By the time the cons identified your more or less engaged. So your doing some of your "prefight" before you know enemy plane type. Then you need to modify it to fit the specific con. I like the short Icon range better....
I need to dust the iron paperwieght off and polish my non existant skillz in the thing so I'll be in the AvA as much as I'm up over the weekend (think thats the plane set this week (I'll stop in regardless)....
Storch,
Squads can be good or bad and I'm not trying to make a blanket attack, i'm just recounting what I percieve as historical fact (I was saying the same thing way back).
In the end only the conduct of the regulars will bring it back. We looked at every guy who came to FR as another babyseal to club...but we realized that he had to have fun while we beat him to death....repeatedly. Now you wont keep em all, not even a 1/3 in the end simply because it is harder. But it has to be harder for the right reasons and the playing field has to be more or less even. Do that and it'll grow...
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I agree with asw completely, but it ain't never gonna happen.
I sure hope the CT, coming out in two weeks, is an effective substitute.
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Agree with ASW.
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Tell you the truth, I dont care about plane match ups. Lets have some people match ups :D
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We all know "resetting the map" actually porks the arena.
We also know that HiTech has coding that can make some bases uncaptureable.
Why not make half the fields on each side uncaptureable, or at least enough of them that makes a "reset" impossible?
This would leave a substantial number of bases where there can be an ebb and flow of an MA style "war" without the danger of an arena pork.
Many of the maps we have in the AvA are really nice, and it is a shame that we only ever see 2-3 bases on any of them (usually the ones closest together). Allowing a "front" to move would mean different areas of the map would be in use over the course of the week.
I think it would also help attract more people / squads. "Mindless furballing" is not for everyone. Give them a goal, however, and they will fight for it. This is what makes the Filth missions et. al. so much fun. There is a goal that people understand, a criteria that defines a "victory" for your side, thus a reason to come to the arena and mix it up.
It is widely known that base captures are "frowned upon" in the AvA because of the porking issue. Adding a limited amount of base capture back into the mix might be reason enough for some to come in and try it.
Sure, you might get some lamo milk-runner types, but if the ability to reset/pork the arena is removed, who cares? Let them run away from you, and concentrate instead on that squad or group of lone wolfers who have decided they are going to get A-whatever no matter the cost or opposition. A tenacious attack against equally tenacious defenders are the best fights IMO.
P.S. I am fully in agreement with the idea to remove ranking from the AvA. I would prefer that stats still be recorded if possible just because I like to know how I am doing, but the ranking is inconsequential and quite possibly counterproductive.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Tell you the truth, I dont care about plane match ups. Lets have some people match ups :D
:lol
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I thought I’d take time this morning to lay out a few thoughts. The MA has three problems you can overcome: it takes a horde to ‘accomplish’ anything and the planeset is all over the place. In addition, side numbers get out of balance partly because of the need for the horde.
One of the best things the AvA must try to keep, is the culture of switching sides to balance player numbers but I won’t address that here.
Encourage smaller working units instead of the horde. Make base capture easier, not harder. Reduce the hardness of town buildings, it WILL encourage those smaller units who come in from the MA and want to accomplish something without needing a horde, both for captures or the defensive rolls. Granted, it sucks that 50 cals will be able to destroy buildings but it’s a needed trade off.
Allowing better planes to encourage base capture is a terrible idea IMHO. That discourages the side that’s already down fields at the very time you need to give them better planes to keep their numbers up for defense.
Set some bases as uncapturable so the arena does not reset. I forget, can we do that without rebuilding the terrain?
And keep in mind, no matter what change you make, the current population isn’t going to like anything that ‘might’ change their game play but a bigger community will make them happy in the end.
That's my 2 pennies worth, but whatever you do, I applaud the effort.
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Good ideas to keep the arena from being porked.Im sure a lot of squads would like that.
If a squad has fighters,jabos and bomber pilots not all would want to just furball,and maybe like me are not real keen on the p51vp51 MA type of planeset/gameplay.Im more the jabo/bomber type but as it stands now in the AVA..I cant,I have to just furball or go to the MA and shoot at p51s and spits in my b17:(
But to limit better planes to encourage base capture wouldnt be the thing to do,as Easyscor said.