Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Vudak on September 06, 2007, 05:23:30 PM
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In another thread, Delirium suggested that whatever is wrong with this game is likely due to the vets’ attitude towards newer players. I agree to some extent; and a series of sorties I had last night suggested Delirium might be onto something.
Late last night, I was flying around in my Corsair at around 15k and happen across a group of players from the same squad. There were four of them, three spitfires and a pony. I engage, from below but with much more E (I was practicing the ol’ store your E to trick them Corsair tactic), and we start dancing, swirling about while I’m doing everything I can to keep some semblance of SA and stay alive as long as possible. I score a few hits, but don’t knock any down, and am eventually killed. No complaints from me, as I was having a blast, and getting some good practice in.
As soon as I’m dead, I hop back in my Hog and head back over to the fight, looking to have some more fun. I climb to about 10k this time, and by the time I get there, there’s only two spitfires left. I engage them, we get into another long swirling fight, and this time I’m able to knock one down near the deck. The other starts to run.
I follow him for awhile before a new spit starts to enter the battle, and I have to turn to confront the new threat. Meanwhile, the previously running spitfire turns back in. As soon as I merge with the new spitfire, I face off against the old one. I am unable to avoid the front quarter shot the old one takes, and I go down.
Not really a big deal, as I die all the time, and I think most people will say I’m not renowned for getting on 200 every time that happens. But this time I did. I asked the obvious question, “Why did you run from a 1v1 when you were in a spitfire?”
“I’m sorry you died, Vudak,” was the reply.
I told him I don’t care about dying, it happens all the time. I was just wondering how he expected to ever improve if he didn’t challenge himself.
Now I honestly wasn’t asking this to be a jerk. I was just trying to get him thinking about my question, which is one I don’t think enough people in this game ever ask themselves. I figured if he took the question well, I’d offer to go into the TA with him to spend some time with him and help him gain some insight and confidence. I’d like to think if he said something along the lines of, “I do what’s fun for me,” that I’d drop it.
Well, instead I got called an idiot, and had it insinuated that my Corsair is some sort of super bird that uses unfair “skid turn” and “gear drop” and “tight chandelle” tricks, and as such he saw no point in taking his clearly inferior spitfire up against it in a 1v1 turn fight. I sure wish someone would tell the good spitfire sticks that, so next time I’m dueling them in the DA with my Hog they wouldn’t beat me up so bad, but oh well.
I came to the conclusion that offering to take this guy into the TA would just be seen in his eyes as my chest thumping or ego basting or what have you, so I declined to offer. I wasn’t entirely keen on helping him by that stage, anyway.
But it did get me thinking (and here’s the reason you’ve been patiently reading)…
There isn’t much you can say to some people these days that isn’t going to be perceived by them as an insult, whine, or personal attack. You can’t ask the blunt question, “why?” these days without being a jerk. It just isn’t heard of in our arenas any more. And there isn’t really any beating around the bush as to why that is… What you do hear often in the arenas is “coward, hotard, cherry picker, baby seal, no skill loser, lame, tard, noob, stick stirrer, DA now, you suck, get some skill, your mother’s ugly, etc., etc., etc.”
Given that environment, is it really any mystery as to why so many people it seems are reluctant to take advice, or to try and learn? Is it really some stretch of the imagination to see why some people would take every slightly negative comment as a personal attack? Is it really unfathomable to theorize that maybe this is part of the reason there is so much hording, so much hoing, so much running, and so much cutting corners by so much of the subscriber base?
Do not get me wrong – every single time I’ve gone to the DA with any person, who many would categorize as a jerk, I’ve found the person to be a great and helpful guy. They see I’m trying, and they don’t put me down for it. I’ve yet to meet a single person in this game that would knock a guy who’s giving it a shot, no matter how loud of a mouth they are in the game or this BBS, or in real life, or in persona, or whatever. If you try, they’ll respect you – it’s that simple.
Unfortunately, many people don’t ever get to the point where they can realize that. Many people seem to get so put off by what they read here or see on 200 that they’ll never give it a shot. Some of them will go on playing for years, and they’re the old timers here that form another part of the problem – the ones who label smack talkers as jerks, idiots, crybabies, or whatever, and help steer new guys even further away from what is, in its essence, good advice on the part of smacktalkers, that just doesn’t really sound anything like advice.
That last part is the nugget – the smack talk is laced with good advice that doesn’t sound anything like it, and is thus ignored, or chalked up as crying.
Another example:
After the above-mentioned sorties last night, another player said, “Well, I need help.” We went to the TA for awhile, had some fun, and got to talking. He mentioned that he gets yelled at all the time for being a Hoer, but that he doesn’t care, he just does it anyway.
I told him, “Ok, this next fight, HO me.” He tried, he missed his shot, I pulled a lead turn on him, and was on his six in seconds. I explained to him that that is why you shouldn’t HO – not because some people have a problem with it. He immediately got the picture, and I think we now have one less player in the MA who will bank everything on a HO.
Now imagine if I’d just said, “No you shouldn’t HO because that means you suck.” I don’t think that would have been as effective.
So what’s the point of my long-winded ramble? Well, if we want the quality of this game to improve, there’s three types of persons who might consider experimenting with different things. My suggestions:
Smack Talkers: Keep talking your smack, keep doing what’s fun for you, and don’t tone it down… Unless your target is someone you haven’t run into before, or someone you know is pretty new. In that case, at least for the first few times you run into them, give them the benefit of the doubt, and make an effort to explain the folly of their ways in such a way that you don’t intentionally come off as putting them down. I’m sure I’m guilty of this too. I’ll try working on this too.
It’s My $15 Dollar Types: Keep playing how you want, keep doing what’s fun for you, and don’t stop if you don’t want to… But when you hear someone newer say, “You’re a crybaby,” or whatever, just try to explain to them, “They mean well. They just don’t say it well.”
Guys on the Receiving End of Both Types of Advice: Keep choosing to take the advice you want to take, and keep playing how you want to play, but try keeping an open mind when someone offers you advice, even when it doesn’t necessarily sound like advice… You’d be surprised just how quickly tigers turn to kittens in this game when you let down your guard and give it a shot… And between me and you, you’d be surprised just how much more fun you can have in this game once you have more options. “Options” is the key word.
If we all tried this for just a month or two, I think we’d see many positive results that everybody, no matter what their niche is in this game, could enjoy.
I apologize for the long post, I thank those of you who took the time to read it, and I’m realistic enough to know it won’t change a single thing :D
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Excellent post and very well expressed.
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Excellent post.
Old habits are so ingrained for many that change may be difficult.
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VUDAK..I really hope this impresses others as it has impressed me.
Sometimes it pays to just be "REAL' even though it is a cartoon game,and realize that the other person on the other end of the convo who you are giving a hard time to or whatever,could possibly be someone,who,if he lived by you,could be a pretty good friend.
The biggest impact I felt was when someone,I forget who,posted pics of players who went to a gathering for AH players recently,And when I saw some of the pics,it helped me to make those people real,for me anyway.And that they are a bunch opf guys and gals just wanting to have fun in the game..
again Vudak:aok ..Great wisdom in those words.
Peace and PLenty,
Kevin
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"Now I honestly wasn’t asking this to be a jerk."
The thing is, the other man does not know that. This is an inherent drawback of text communication, and of the fact that you can only type eighty characters or so. The other man can't hear your tone of voice, or see your facial expression; he doesn't know who you are, or what you are like. You are just a name. Perhaps he had spent ten minutes being hammered, and had no desire to be hammered some more; perhaps he was roping you for his distant wingman.
The lack of context inherent in text communication leads to a phenomenon whereby I tend to visualise the other player's face in a certain way. In fact, when I visualise the men of Aces High, scrolling through the text buffer, I visualise a mixture of squeaky-voiced gee-golly-mom-cookies American kid, and Wilford Brimley (http://images.google.com/images?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22Wilford+Brimley%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi), hunched over his computer, and I certainly don't want text messages from Wilford Brimley. But, as
falcon23 points out, the reality is that the players are actually normal everyday people, albeit descended from birds rather than dolphins. They are not Wilford Brimley at all. That mental image comes from a lack of context. Add to that the fact that this is a game where people hunt and shoot each other down, and that the user base tends to be made of WW2 enthusiasts - with all that entails - and I am amazed that the people get on so well.
Besides, different people play this game in different ways. Some people have jobs, and no desire for more stress at home; some people play it for relaxation, a quick jaunt into the air and maybe a diving pass or two before heading home. It is an entertainment for those times when there's nothing on television and the fridge is empty, not a gruelling training course where people learn skills that have very little application in the real world, unless you are a dangerous car driver, and enjoy dogfighting cyclists.
NB I am not the Spitfire pilot in question.
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Originally posted by Laciner
"Now I honestly wasn’t asking this to be a jerk."
The thing is, the other man does not know that.
That is true, but a major theme of my post is that, nowadays, many people seem to assume that someone is, in fact, trying to be a jerk. I tried to theorize why.
I agree with your post, btw. Like I said, if he just said "I do what's fun for me," I'd like to imagine that I'd drop it.
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Definitely worth reading ---all of it.
Vudak. Well said.
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Originally posted by Laciner
"Now I honestly wasn’t asking this to be a jerk."
The thing is, the other man does not know that.
Why did you run from a 1 vs 1 when you are in one of the best turn fighting planes in the game only to come back and HO in a 2 vs 1. I bet the guy considered it a jerk question because his coward arse didn't like the answer!:aok
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Hi, my name is Fugitive, and I berate HOers on channel 200 :(
"Hi Fugitive"
With the help of this support group, I will try NOT to scream at those that HO.
Great post Vudak !
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Vudak, I believe what your post emphasizes is something I like to call "Pixel Syndrome". It's what you get when you take people, who for millenia before computers only had real-time communication via face-to-face contact.
Of course, It's completely different to talk to someone face-to-face versus through a text buffer. A text buffer does not throw punches at you when you insult it. It does not try to tackle you to the ground when you slander it's geneology. Thus, for lack of a better term, the text buffer is actually an Ego Amplifier.
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Originally posted by Vudak
I was just wondering how he expected to ever improve if he didn’t challenge himself.
And here you may have put your finger on the problem.
I'm not sure that many (most?) players expect to improve these days. I have long sensed a disturbance in The Force, a chilling feeling that there is a growing crowd that is not in the least bit interested in improving their ACM skills, but instead want to chatter to each other as they swarm enemy planes, score correspondingly easy kills, and land them to their buddies' accolades; or swarm enemy bases, vulch anyone foolish enough to try to oppose them, and thus win the war. Such people will never be interested in improving themselves, and they will attack you if you suggest that they should.
Great and well-thought-out post, Vudak, but I think you overestimate your fellow man here.
- oldman
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BTW - the tactical lesson learned from this experience is that "I screwed up."
I turned to merge with the new spit, much faster, spit. What I should have done in this situation would be to continue following the old spit, as with the new spit's E state, an overshoot would have been a high probability, and I would have then had both spits in front of me going the same direction, instead of each spit in front of me going opposite directions.
Basically, I just boxed myself in and even had I avoided the front quarter shot, I'd be in a bad predicament with spitfires to each side of me.
I also would have been more likely to avoid the front quarter shot, as I'd have more energy at that point than I wound up having after doing what I did.
Just in case anyone was wondering :D
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Great and well-thought-out post, Vudak, but I think you overestimate your fellow man here.
I'm an optimist, Oldman. I used to be a person much like you described back in Air Warrior. People change :)
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The basic message is always going to be that the vets set the tone. That's the truth. It was for any of us when we started in this game. I know which of those old AW types set the tone for me.
Those that stick around long enough impact on that tone whether they want to or not.
That's why some of us believe we have some responsibilty to the new crowd in how we come across, because in the end we help the community and the game keep building in the right direction.
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I am always asking others for help. That is why I am improving and will look to continue to improve until I can run with the upper echelones of this game.
Guys who don't listen will stay behind.
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I fancy myself a decent pilot, but i have been looking for someone to teach me more on the F4. I have the basics down but i need more. I cant remember his name, i think it was saber01 or something, but he gave me fits in my spit 5 against his hog1. He is in the same squad as MEf4u1d I think. I can never find anyone to DA other than the EGO types or the F4 cherry pick specialists.
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Originally posted by Gary26
I fancy myself a decent pilot, but i have been looking for someone to teach me more on the F4. I have the basics down but i need more. I cant remember his name, i think it was saber01 or something, but he gave me fits in my spit 5 against his hog1. He is in the same squad as MEf4u1d I think. I can never find anyone to DA other than the EGO types or the F4 cherry pick specialists.
I'm not sure you'll like this answer, but ask SkyRock :)
I'm more than happy to help you too. Once you have the basics down, what it pretty much comes down to is just having the opportunity to practice and refine them until you can accomplish them better than the next guy. The best way to do that is to bang your head against the wall trying to beat someone better than you until you finally start getting him.
The MA is not a good place to do this simply because the opportunities for practice are not as available there.
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Well Vudak same thing happened to me last night. I was in a Typhoon at 15K and oADONAIo was in a 38 at around 18K. He makes two HO passes and on the second one he takes my engine out and I glide to the deck and ditch. I simply asked him: Why would you want to HO when you clearly had all the advantage in the fight to kill me using ACM. The way I typed this question to him was not in a derogitory manner, it just merely a simple question. But his response was all defensive and then tries to make it like I was whinning. As usual they try make people on 200 think your whinning when in reality your just asking a simple question.
I really could care less if I get HO'd, picked,ganged or what ever. It just amazes me why some do it when they clearly have the superior plane, Alt and/or E advantage. Anyway I feel sorry for the guy that he is unable to answer a simple question like an adult. But as long as I have been playing these games I should have known I would get yet another guy like this.
I'll be on again tonight and as usual after the 3rd flight in a row getting lame guys doing lame things. I will start HOing everything in site if the guy turns straight at me....LOL. Oh well life goes on. :D
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i agree with what boobs ... er ...sfchondits...said about the er...oh mamma sweet deliverance.
um. what?
:confused:
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Originally posted by Vudak
I'm not sure you'll like this answer, but ask SkyRock :)
I'm more than happy to help you too. Once you have the basics down, what it pretty much comes down to is just having the opportunity to practice and refine them until you can accomplish them better than the next guy. The best way to do that is to bang your head against the wall trying to beat someone better than you until you finally start getting him.
The MA is not a good place to do this simply because the opportunities for practice are not as available there.
This statement holds so true. One of the reasons I would love to see kill shooter turned off in the DA. My squad used to go there all the time and fight each other. Everyone from the same base, on the same vox, and everyone was fair game. I learned more about ACM and SA jumping into a huge furball with just my squadies around, and when I did get killed it was easy for the squadie that killed me to explain my mistake to me. Since we were all squadies there were no bad feelings just one big learning experiance. Harder to do that now when the squad has to be slit in half to fight each other. Really miss those days.
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I do wonder why you feel it's the vets that display the attitude on 200?
Sure there are a bunch that do, but there are alot that don't either.
There is a great emphasis on competition, especially in the MA. This can
lead to very aggressive postures between "combatants". I do see an
awful lot of folks from all sides expecting others to play their way.
That can manifest as the Pocket Adolf's demands that their base
grabbing take precedence over any other activities...or the Air Quaking
furballers snide replies to such demands. to single out one group or another>.
Why not just take a deep breath and not worry about the other guy's
motivations. If someone runs from a fight, it may be frustrating but it is
their dime. Asking a question like why run implies a certain smugness on
the questioner's part. Obviously the bandit came to the same conclusion
you did, just a little earlier...they were going to lose :D
As reasonable as the question may be, it is also being done to name
and shame in a pretty public way. This may explain the negative reactions.
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Originally posted by Rino
As reasonable as the question may be, it is also being done to name
and shame in a pretty public way. This may explain the negative reactions.
You know, in that respect, I've tried it in PM form, but when the other guy doesn't PM you back, and uses 200 instead, you've got people wondering what you said to prompt him getting so upset, and the imagination runs wild. So I don't do that anymore. I figure let the community see the whole thing. If I'm being a jerk, tell me. If I'm being polite, tell him. If you're not inclined to say anything, don't.
There's many factors involved here, I suppose. But if you never question something that's going on, how are you going to help a guy out?
It should basically be like extending a hand. The other guy can either take it, or he can say "No thanks," but instead what we all too often have here is one guy extending an insult, and the other guy sending one back, and figuring that all future extensions are insults.
I don't think it's always being done to shame someone, and if there's one thing I've learned in life, shame is one thing you can't "put" on someone, anyway. They have to feel it themselves.
Anyway, it's worth more thought. Thanks for shedding light on some other aspects.
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vudak, it's a nice post and interesting question. Honestly, I think it has alot to do with saving face. I think there are many out there who want to land kills, who think that by landing kills they are improving...that they are good. They don't want an honest fight risking exposure. They no they can't fight, so they will run, or wait till they have an easier kill.
I think they see some "vets" smack talking and they figure it is the attitude of AH. What they don't realize, i think, is that many of the vets smack talking will also take them to the DA/TA and show them some things. I like a little story of mine involving Silat. I fought him once long ago as a newer player, and I thought I was doing ok. Long story short, I said nice fight to him over the arena chat. He pm'd me and told me just what he thought, that it was not a good fight and that I was basically terrible, pretty much laughing at me the whole time:). Though a bit of a blow he sent me some films and breif explanation explaining some things. Honestly, at the time, after getting over my evaluation, I was thankful someone took the time to send me down the right path. Oddly some years later I ended up a p38 dweeb and flying in same squad.....and through no fault but my own, only marginally better:)
that said, there are plenty of purse fighters out there mixed in with a few cartoon hero's and at least one or 2 king poo's of doo doo island (insert your own 4 letter words).
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Personally Ive given up on people in general. Alot of what we get here are folks who have been trash talking on other games for years and they bring it in here. Some are just plain selfish and rude.
If I had a nickel for everytime I saw a better plane run when 1v1 only to turn back once I got engaged with another id ..yadda yada. :P
Some play this game as a hobby, some use it as an extention of their own lives. Probably some of them hoping its better than the real life they live. You pee in their cornflakes and you are gonna hear about it. Theres no helping that type.
In my opinion the new guys need to be trained early, or they turn into old guys who never change, and frankly make the game less enjoyable for everyone.
The best thing to do is practice restraint and hold your tongue. There is no point in a text battle. The types that fly only the fastest and best armed planes, running around hoing and in our view flying cheezy, think they are the coolest thing since Hillary's britches. Let them think it. Why stir the pot, it only pollutes 200.
Nice post btw Vudak.
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whats a lead turn? :confused:
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Vudak this is a great post <
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See if you would come home, you would have shot the 3 spits down and the 51 the first time and none of this would have happened.
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Vudak, you spoke very well. I agree with what you've said and also try to offer questions to envoke questioning within ones self. Most times, they see that as being a jerk or "complaining about dying".
Vudak.
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Vudak, nice post and very well said. Vets should mind their tongue, because the new players usually are influenced by what is said by the old ones: if you set a certain tone on ch. 200, what else can you expect from them, than following that tone? But this is just a part of the problem, as other as said, lack of context in text communication and lack of interest in the challenge of becoming a better cartoon pilot matter, too, in what happened to you. And, let me add, maybe just ask the simple question isn't enough, you have to make quite clear that you are not complaining, just asking.
Originally posted by Softail
whats a lead turn? :confused:
Basically, a lead turn is defined as a turn you begin before passing your opponent's 3/9 line (3/9 line is the lateral axis of the plane, so called because it runs from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clok), usually in a front quarter approach. Lead turn allows you to gain a firing position on your opponent's rear quarter at a close distance: it is particularly clear in the case of a non maneuvering opponent.
Think about flying straight to a bomber that's approaching you from ahead. Imagine you're not HO, but your flight paths are offsets, let's say his flight path is on your right. If you turn your plane when you've already passed his 3/9 line, you'll end on his six, but on a fairly great distance, maybe 1.5/2 k. If you start your turn before you pass his 3/9 line, say, when he's about at your 2 o'clock, you'll end up on his six but at close range, probably already well within the firing envelope, allowing you to take the shot.
Against fighters it works the same way, except that, of course, the enemy fighter will maneuver, so you won't have a dead six shot, but, if the timing was right, you'll find yourself in his rear quarter, with a small angle between his tail and your nose (this angle is called Angle Off Tail) and at short distance. Basically, lead turns allow you to reduce distance and AOT from your target.
You may read this column at simhq.com:
It' all a matter of your perspective, part III (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_023a.html)
I'm linking just the part where Mr. Bush define the lead turn, but I strongly suggest you to read all the other parts of this article, and, in general, any of his. You can find them at this address:
Simhq's Air Combat Corner Library (http://www.simhq.com/_air/acc_library.html)
lots of useful stuff, here.
Plus, if you PM me your e mail, I'll send you something you may want to read, or just keep as a reference for air to air combat.
I hope this will help you, and, if any of you old farts thinks I made some mistake in what I wrote, please, correct me! :) (This is the spirit we'd like to see in Arenas, isn't it Vudak? ;) )
EDIT: corrected a typo.
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Originally posted by Vudak
{SNIP}
yeah man, i had the same thing with a new guy callled kazaa a few months back. He was playing lame tactics and i died to them a few times. when i offered DA he laughed at me, and assumed i was being a jerk.
good post vudak, doubt many will listen sadly.
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I think Filth and OM have a very good grasp of what is happening. A nice post for sure, but none of us are playing a combat simulation to learn better manners, and not all of us are solely motivated by how well we do in the DA in a controlled 1 vs 1.
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Thanks for the post Vudak. I am a newer pilot, and have not listened to 200 for a month and a half. It was entertaining at first, but have found that a bad apple can ruin the whole pie. It became to much of a negative for me. Just dropped it like a bad habit, as it seems that the majority of the communication is what I call trash talk, and just plain being rude. As far as Vet pilots I have heard them on vox running the gamut from polite & helpful (and fun), to pompous aXX-holes. The vets are the folks that I hit up for advice and look to for proper arena etiquette. Yes I agree that we should just have fun and do the things that are fun, but take the crap talk elsewhere. It's a real turn-off to any semi-mature adult.
PS-I think your conversations as described did not seem to be confrontational in anyway, rather they were postulated to get someone thinking. Nothing wrong with that!
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Originally posted by waystin2
but take the crap talk elsewhere.
No!:aok
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Originally posted by Vudak
In another thread, Delirium suggested that whatever is wrong with this game is likely due to the vets’ attitude towards newer players. I agree to some extent; and a series of sorties I had last night suggested Delirium might be onto something.
. . . . . . . . . . .
That is one way to see things. Here is another view. I think we give the new guys too match credit on being new and not knowing any better. I think that if not right away, after a couple of days they do know what is wrong and what isn't. They know that running from a fight is stupid. They know when they take the easy way out. They know there is nothing you can do to them if they are rude, obnoxious, etc. Any one that has played any game in their life knows these things.
Have you ever been around adults that play socom? Not kids. My 34 brother in law spends his life on that thing. It is all about being an arse to the others and how to cheat. These people then come in here and they try to do the same. Then, there is always the people that do it for fun. They want to do the "wrong" thing because they can and they know it bothers you.
I've helped new guys before. Guess what. Once they figured out they could kind of get a kill here and there, they turned into bigger arses than the ones that cant fly.
So, I don't buy that it is the vets that are the problem. I'm always nice the first time but I am not going to take crap from someone just because he is new. I am not going to listen to someone on his second week cherry picking in his D9 about how I need to learn some acm. he will hear it back.
Any of you met JhonnyRa Jr? I don't think the vets made him that way.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
No!:aok
Allow me to clarify. I can handle the ribbing from fellow players. I am patient to a fault, and enjoy smack talking with the best. My thought is there are those that cannot separate themselves from the fact that this is a game and just kick back and have fun. Maybe if you get the feeling they are not receiving your smacktalk for the joking manner (assumed) you intend, let em be. I am not a score watcher, name in lights syndromer, HO whiner (just don't accept them), Vulch complainer (I say if it's red it's dead), or a kill stealer (if it's on fire or falling, it's not a threat to me). Unfortunately some are, and will always get upset now and in the future when their ACM skills come up short at the end of a set of Hispanos or .50's. See ya up there!
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truth is its never going to stop, because everyone thinks u should play their way, vudak your post even showes that u got onto this guy because he didnt fly like u thought he should, maybe he decided to stretch u out till his squaddie came back.
a 2 vs 1 is always better odds, remember we are not all out here to fight 1 vs 1, we fight as teams and therefore expect some team stratagy.
The simple fix would be to say nothing at all to him if he wants to run let him run, but be away a runner is not always running, setups are common.
But u should also look at your skill for engaging a 2 on 1 with bad odds, so what can u really say for him, he was still alive in the end, and thats what counts.
Basicly what im trying to say, is nothing is ever going to change, and complaing about it wont ever help.
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Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
remember we are not all out here to fight 1 vs 1, we fight as teams and therefore expect some team stratagy.
And that is the question. Why? Why not try it when the opportunity arises? I understand you may want to play as a team but why run from a 1 vs 1 when it comes along? Aren't people even curious to see how you would do? You have no clue how good the other guy is.
I am going to start playing basketball 3 vs 1 and call it strategy and fun. That is all V asked. Why? Can someone please answer that question honestly?
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Truth be told, there is no reason to run unless you are damaged, outta bullets or gas, or it's time to put the baby to bed(lol-for the other flying fathers out there). I for one will go for it, it is a learning situation win or lose.
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I guess im a vet...ive played since 1996'ish and continue to play...
The bottom line is this...people do what is fun...end of story...if it ceases to be fun then they stop it and do something else...
This is a computer game...no matter how good you think you are you are still only as good as you have gamed the game...(i.e. good fiter aces NEVER flew low and slow wwith flaps deployed hoping someone would bounce themwith too much e) yes i understand people delude themselves into believing they are skilled ww2 pilots but your not...please read a few good ww2 fiter pilot biographies and understand how true sorties ran and how most kills were generated...understand turnfiting was not the usual outcome of a sortie and furballs were not what we call furballs in here...
And when you think you are really great then realize that certain things such as video card/processor speed/joystick/rudder pedals/frame rate is often more important in a 1v1 then who drops their flaps first or cuts their throttle and that most casual players have not invested the resources you or i have into the game...
I went thru the "i gotta be an awesome 1v1 furballer" thing in the late 90's and got very good...won tournaments...went to conventions...etc.
Crazy thing is there was always someone better, someone who could invest much more time then me, someone who had a better setup etc. so i began to get into the "rest of the game". You know..the other 98% of aces high...gv's, buffs, boats, start and ord, resupply.....
crazy thing is i still have fun and i dont need to suggest to others how to play to increase my own enjoyment...i dont need to ch 200 folks when i die...no matter how sweet i am about it...yet i still dont log off every night with burning questions in my mind about other folks motives....i guess with 600+ guys/gals on a night there are always enough around to have fun with...
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i just posted on my LA post about this so im gonna post here as well,
there are to many players who care what the other guy is flying or how he is flying,
200 when i first came to Aces High was about the nme and saying good fight, and such like that, now its insult after insult,
so i am de tuning 200 if any of you wanna yell at me for something stupid, or me for staying alive as long as i did against the odds, PM is the way.
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
This is a computer game...no matter how good you think you are you are still only as good as you have gamed the game...(i.e. good fiter aces NEVER flew low and slow wwith flaps deployed hoping someone would bounce themwith too much e) yes i understand people delude themselves into believing they are skilled ww2 pilots but your not...please read a few good ww2 fiter pilot biographies and understand how true sorties ran and how most kills were generated...understand turnfiting was not the usual outcome of a sortie and furballs were not what we call furballs in here...
So, I am confused. Is this a game or is it WWII? :huh
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Originally posted by dedalos
So, I am confused. Is this a game or is it WWII? :huh
Game....last i checked ww2 had ended a while ago...
That being said it is modeled around ww2 aerial combat so i referenced ww2 biographies....
But it is still a video game with all the limitations of one...for example some of the moves used by the low/slow/flap guys only work because it is hard to "see" around the plane without an uber joystick or nifty arrow key work...so it is a gamey move which you wont find in Shaw's etc...
Not trying to insult anyone...but when someone suggests people dont want to get "better", i just want to comment that they are truly saying "better at this game's environment" and not true air-to-air combat skills (whidh DEFINITELY included Ho's and running to superior numbers and "picking") All of which are frowned upon by those who want poeple to get better....
SEE ww2 pilots had this funny limitation called dying...and Im just guessing that what attracted folks to this game was a love affair with ww2 and i guess it doesnt upset me too much if some want to fly planes the way they were flown back then....
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There are a few things I would urge newer players to do or not to do.
1) Don't tune to channel 200. I rarely tune 200 as I don't care one whit about what anyone has to say beyond a salute. If it's something worthwhile, they can PM me. If they PM me with a whine or otherwise impolite nonsense, I just squelch them. A buddy recently told me that some jerk was badmouthing me on 200. Must have been someone I had just dispatched... Who cares? He's dead and his ego won't let him rest in peace. I won't waste 2 seconds of my life discussing issues with these folks. Don't waste your time either.
2) If you have ammo and your plane is flyable, don't run away from a lone enemy. You will never learn if you don't accept even-up fights. Practice in the TA and DA. Build some skills and self-confidence. If I see a lone enemy, I grin from ear to ear. It's an opportunity to have some fun. You may win, you may lose. However, you'll never know until you actually engage. Besides, your self-image should not hinge on the outcome of a game. Relax, have fun. If you are living in terror of being shot down, you can't be having much fun.
3) If you're new to the game, avoid flying the so-called "easy mode" fighters. Sure, you'll have better stats, but your abilities are not challenged very much. Take a Spit IX instead of the Spit XVI. Fly the La-5 instead of the La-7. Give the P-51B a try and leave the D model in the hanger. Try the 190A-5 rather than the Dora. Fly a P-47 some. Learn the aircraft, discover your skill level and then go find those folks who will help you raise that level.
4) Set realistic goals. No one ever became a top stick overnight. If you set your goals too high, you'll start getting timid or simply find yourself not having fun. Guys who aren't having fun are easy to find. They're the ones bellyaching the most on 200.
5) Many whine about HOs... If your dogfighting ability is limited to flying straight at the enemy with guns blazing, then it's time to get some help with both BFM and ACM. On the other hand, a true HO means that both pilots brought guns to bear.. If only one does, than it's a different story. 90% of the whines associated with HOs are due to the fact that the whiner lost. You don't hear the winner whining about the HO, do you?
Folks, Aces High has steep learning curve. If you want to build good flying skills, you must commit the time to it. It also requires a major change in the way many think. When you see an enemy, do you worry about what they may do to you? Do you think, "how do I avoid getting killed by that guy?" Don't think that way. Think, "what must I do to kill that guy?" Think attack, attack, always attack. Do that and you'll stop being a target and start becoming a dangerous adversary.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Vudak
...and I’m realistic enough to know it won’t change a single thing :D
A simple sticky might fix that issue. Anyone coming here would be able to read over this wonderful message.
, very good message.
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Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
,maybe he decided to stretch u out till his squaddie came back.
or maybe he was playing the game like a coward!
Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
he was still alive in the end, and thats what counts.
nobody dies in here dill boy, Vudak attacked them to get them to fight.......which is what this game is all about. This player proved that he only wants a fight where he has a two on one advantage or where he can cherry pick, now what if everyplayer that logged on only took those kinds of chances? You'd have an arena full of sehob's flying around!
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I gotta call some chest thumping by Vudak.
Sorry, but the story sounds good but you had no idea what the guy's skill level was. You never mentioned the distance he was at in the rabbit mode. Was it D800? D1000? D1500? Do you know for a fact that he know how's to rev back into you at that distance? Do you think he might have been extending to reset the fight? Were you just mad because he didn't immediately turn back into you? Where do you get off saying because some guy was fighting his way is wrong? Perhaps he's turned back into 50 hogs in the past month and died most of the time and he was trying something else? Not neccesarily running but trying to think of something different that he might try?
You make a lot of assumptions to tell everyone the guy got away from you. Ah well, such is life in the big city. I hate to say this but every single fight is not about staying in it til your dead. Expecially if you are trying out new things because you haven't been flying that long. I routinely teach people that they NEVER have to stay in a fight that is going south on them. Just extend and reset the fight. It's pretty stupid to stay in a fight you KNOW you are losing. Unless you want to prove that you can die AGAIN. A reset for an old vet might be D600. A reset for a guy in a particular type of plane might be D600 or it might be D1500 depending on his skill level for some guys it could be D2500!
The issue is just because some guy ran and you couldn't catch him is no reason to tell everyone about their faults and complain just because he wouldn't obllige you and turn back into the fight immediatley.
Vudak also mentions once someone has the basics they shoud be able to expand on it in the MA. To that I answer yes and no. There is no subsitute for stick time. The more you get the better you begin to control your ride. There is no substitute for QUALITY stick time. Just getting up in the MA and die'n all the time is not quality stick time. As a trainer I had a guy that had been flying for over 2 years. He flew the plane excellent but was having problems he couldn't quite figure out. I told him to come shoot me up. He came in, we did a few moves and I watched him pull over on an oblique angle and said, "that's cool but whacha doing?" He response was I wasn't where he expected me to be. Once I heard that it was very easy to fix his problem. A hour later he was back in the MA scoring 4 kills on his first sortie, in a plane he had just begun flying as a change of pace. Tactics are another completely different issue. You learn them. Trial and error can take years if someone doesn't show you. And then you don't know why it worked but just that it worked. The concern is most folks want instant gratification. Kinda like a $1 scratch off lotto ticket. That's why the HO model promotes that type of behavior. It's almost become like a boxed computer game because ANYONE has a chance to win a fight without doing anything to better their flying. It's not the vets that foster that as they normally evade the HO and kill the guy. The problem is the noob's are doing it to other noob's and they are winning 50% of the time. They don't realize they are doing it to another noob so they continue to do it. Most people don't even know it's fairly easy to set up a guy for kill. They are nothing more than a target in the air. It's not their fault. No one ever showed them what was happening other than it was happening to them over and over again. But, just like Vudak, they like the game but are only doing what they can do with the information about dogfighting that they possess.
So chest thumping about your skills and asking on 200 why someone is running is silly. Taking someone to the DA to prove how great they are is silly. If ya wanna help someone take them over to the TA and show them the whys. If you cannot explain why you are able to get on their 6 and shoot them down or don't have any idea why they rolled out when they had the advantage then suggest they visit the TA and get with a trainer who can critique them and help them get better.
The one point everyone seems to be missing is if these new folks get better at dogfighting then you will get a much better fight in the MA. If all you do is ask, "why are you running?", you are not doing anything to help the guy. Also, a new guy banging his head against the wall trying to figure why the other guy beat him without any knowledge of dogfighting skills is a very, very long road to getting better. A hour with any trainer will make up for a lot head banging and years of trying to figure it out.
It's very easy to criticize a new guy but sometimes very hard to actually help him. If you wanna criticize him do it on chl 200. At least we can mute it.
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as usual Ren, ur running headlong and strong in a direction that no one quite knows how you started on. cant fault your conviction and determination indeed. excelent use of capital letters, this assures us that even complete morons like me or vudak cant fail to see your profound point.
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Sometime's it needs to be done that way when I think you might not get it :D
Nothing profound just taking chest thumping out of the equation and bringing up training, or the lack there of, and the ramifications of whining about someone running away from some dude that can't catch him.
I'm sorry if everyone doesn't play the game exactly the way some guys want them to. I suggest let them learn and they will give everyone a much better fight.
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well said ren...i understand exactly where you are going....
too many "vets" cant understand how a new pilot might approach the game...or how someone who has been killed by f4u's 1v1 in the past might choose to handle the situation...or what is truly going on...
an example..the other night i up a f4u1c and go over an enemy airfield...my phone rings and its family so i dive to the deck and head for home....while chatting i look back and see a p-51d about 1000 out...he follows me all the way back to my airbase and the phone converstaion ends...so i reverse on him and we turn 2x and he heads away back to his base...i call it the longest b-n-z pass ive ever had from a pony...
but the point is he could have been on ch 200 berating me because form his end im "running" and on my end im trying not to lose a perk plane while being polite to my grandma...
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Hi Ren,
(I'm sitting down at someone else's computer in Virginia, so this will have to be brief...)
I've been playing this game long enough to recognize when someone could use some help... This guy did. There was a serious reason he was the 2nd one I targeted in the 2v1. Basically, he was never the threat.
Also, I mentioned in my post I was thinking about taking him to the TA, not the DA... Because it was pretty obvious that, no, he doesn't know how to rev back at any distance. That's something that can be fixed, if someone wants to put in the time to fix it.
My point is that how can you offer someone that help, without being seen as, well, a chest thumper these days? I've seen some bad things said on 200... I didn't think my comments qualified in the slightest, so I was wondering what the golden phrase is, so to speak...
And I mentioned in a latter post that the MA really isn't the best place to expand such skills (how can you really expand your fighting skills in a place where traditionally no one wants to fight?)
If you want to call it chest thumping, well, that's ok, Ren. I think maybe you don't know me so well, but hey, I'm human too.
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Also, Ren, we seriously differ in some philosophies... I understand you've been a trainer for many, many years, but I respectfully disagree with you in telling people not to stick around in fights gone south.
That's kind of like telling a goalie to leave after the 2nd period if the score's not going his way... You never know what he could have picked up in the 3rd.
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
well said ren...i understand exactly where you are going....
too many "vets" cant understand how a new pilot might approach the game...or how someone who has been killed by f4u's 1v1 in the past might choose to handle the situation...or what is truly going on...
an example..the other night i up a f4u1c and go over an enemy airfield...
:rofl Ohhh this vet understands exactly what you were doing :D
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Nice post Vudak
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Originally posted by dedalos
:rofl Ohhh this vet understands exactly what you were doing :D
cool...pm me the lotto numbers please...
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Originally posted by Vudak
Also, Ren, we seriously differ in some philosophies... I understand you've been a trainer for many, many years, but I respectfully disagree with you in telling people not to stick around in fights gone south.
That's kind of like telling a goalie to leave after the 2nd period if the score's not going his way... You never know what he could have picked up in the 3rd.
I absolutely agree with you that we differ in these particular philophies. If you are of a mind that this game should be a mindless, endless game of Tomb Raider (without the cheats) then yes I absolutely diagree with you. The idea of getting up 100 times (ala tomb raider) to find out, "hey wait, I shoulda done that?" as opposed to learning how to do it right the first time is something for the box game folks. This is a very fast moving chess game and just as you learn how to attack someone you had better learn to reset a fight at your own choosing. If not, why bother taking off? Just sit on the end of the runway and announce on Chl200 for everyone to come vulch you.
There is a huge difference between flying in combat (virtual or not) and being the goalie in a game. I hope you can see that.
You philosphy, imho, is akin to saying, please, take off, mindlessly come to fight me, no matter what, so I can shoot you down and get the kill. Then do it again so I can shoot you down again. Golly, ain't this fun for you? It sure is for me!
Flying smart, extending, reseting a fight is not cowardly. It's merely a tactic to regain a lost advantage. Nothing more. If you think that's not a part of this game then why bother offering any advice? If the guy decided he needed to bug that was his choice to do it? Why is it always lame when someone doesn't want to fight the fight your way? You said it yourself, you got into a fight and got shot down. You came back to the fight, got one and the other ran. Who cares what his plane was? You said you were having fun. Do you honestly think he wasn't? He was playing the only way he knew how. Everyone was at that point at some time. They overcame it and became better players or lef t the game. Being an old vet as you say why didn't you pull off and go look for another fight. The fight was over at that point. Or did you figure you would eventually run him down but got jumped by another higher guy coming in? There are many to be had without worrying about one spitty.
I can't remember just how many times a night some low guy didn't set up a few guys by faking a few passes then draggin the guy off to his squaddies waiting above. That was in another game, long ago. It happened every night. The run is no different than a rope a dope. You sucker the guy up and kill him as he stalls. But, the issue remains the same. The guy ran. Another countrymate come over and dropped in. Why did you run? Who died? Who's on 200 asking the question? The spitty ran to help and you died. He didn't fight your fight. Sorry. End of story. Move on to the next fight.
BTW, there are very few old vets that ever talk smack on the radio. They're having too much fun. Turning off 200 is helpful. Squelching those who need it works too. Helping those who ask for help also works. The guy that ran will ask for help when he finally figures it out. Or, maybe he and his buddies just set you up to die. :) As far as real help, ask around. you will find I saddle up on a guy and let some newer guy get in to try his hand at shooting the guy down. I never fire a shot and offer advice as to how to saddle up as the fight progresses. He gets the kill and learned something. All it cost me was coverin his 6 a lil. When was the last time you actually let someone jump in and take the kill? Note: a guys who's flown a few years is not an old vet for those folks reading this.
Point of view is everything as long as you are open to more than one point of view. You've shared yours by starting out discussing something Deli touched on. IMHO it went down hill from there.
It really doesn't hurt to agree to disagree on something as long as you take it for it's meant to be. An opinion and not a personal attack. :) Hey, yer one of the old guys so I respect who you are. I merely disagreed with the line this thread took after the "Deli suggested" part. I think every new guy will go through the dyin stage, the running stage, the sputnik stage. You name it they are gonna experience it. Didn't you?
Ya know, I remember watching a squadie drag 4-5 guys deep into our territory and giving us a chance to shut the door behind them before dropin in an murder'n em all. Wow, that was fun! :)
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
This is a very fast moving chess game and just as you learn how to attack someone you had better learn to reset a fight at your own choosing.
Quoted because it sounds like something I would say.
Don't get me wrong Vudak. Even this can be taken to its lamest extreme, where guys use it when they have the advantage, but won't fight without an all but unbeatable advantage, but I'm mostly on the same page with Ren.
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Well I might be wrong, but I think the point of Vudaks post isn't so much the flying the other guy did, it was more along the idea of people being civil to each other.
In his example he perceived that the enemy spit was a guy that didn't have a good grasp of ACM or fighting in general. So he asked the spit guy why he did what he did. Maybe he could have started with" you were in a better position before, why did you give it up an extend?" So in his mind he was just trying to help.
Had the enemy spit driver been more civil he could have said "so and so, the guy you just shot down, told me it was you and I knew I didn't stand a chance against you alone", or "I'm new to the spit and wasn't sure against a hog 1 vs 1, I was extending trying to get an advantage back." either way just being polite would be nice.
Why aren't some people polite? a lot of these guys are learning the "attitude" from some of those who play this game just love to trash talk. So they think its the "cool" thing to do, or this spit driver was embarrassed knowing he ran away, and only came back when he could try for an easy kill. Maybe deep inside he knows hes a weak flyer and thats what embarrassed him.
The whole point is, if the "vets" or the "trash talkers" toned it down a bit, maybe the new guys wouldn't pick up that attitude. And maybe if the new guys, or weak flyers didn't jump on the "defensive" with their attitudes they might find more people willing to spend that hour or two in the TA, or have someone tell them how they lost the fight, or just pass a pointer or two along.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Why aren't some people polite? a lot of these guys are learning the "attitude" from some of those who play this game just love to trash talk. So they think its the "cool" thing to do, or this spit driver was embarrassed knowing he ran away, and only came back when he could try for an easy kill. Maybe deep inside he knows hes a weak flyer and thats what embarrassed him.
If you listened closely to a recent video bio, you'll hear that this is exactly the kind of feedback they got that drove them to learn better ACM. It's not always trash talk for the sake of trash talk. It does have the desired effect sometimes.
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Originally posted by Murdr
If you listened closely to a recent video bio, you'll hear that this is exactly the kind of feedback they got that drove them to learn better ACM. It's not always trash talk for the sake of trash talk. It does have the desired effect sometimes.
hee hee NathBDP! Boy that got me soo mad when he called me a lame skilless picker, but it was true, and that's why it got me stirred up so much.
If you are getting your adrenlalin(enjoyment) by being sneaky and cowardly, then you will never stop doing what the spit did. It's two different personality types. One type, like VUDAK, actually found the real adrenalin to be the fight, and the other type, like Falconwng(he flies like the spit did in this story), continues to find the adrenalin in cowardly run/cherry/HO tactics! I have film of Falconwng the other night in a horde trying to cherry me, he gets reversed so goes vert and tries a front quarter/HO, when he misses, he runs(in his la7 against my k-4) right up in under his overwhelming horde that was almost over my base. As soon as I start reversing the 4-6 cons that jumped me, I see him turn around and go for the cherry(of course he misses again) and then gets super aggressive tryin to steal the kill from the others(now at least 8) that were trying to get me. He still didn't get the kill on me.:aok He's been playing since '96! LMAO ROFL:rofl :lol What a waste of game time! I have no problems calling people like him out as just plain cowardly game types!!!!
Mark
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Originally posted by Widewing
5) Many whine about HOs... If your dogfighting ability is limited to flying straight at the enemy with guns blazing, then it's time to get some help with both BFM and ACM. On the other hand, a true HO means that both pilots brought guns to bear.. If only one does, than it's a different story. 90% of the whines associated with HOs are due to the fact that the whiner lost. You don't hear the winner whining about the HO, do you?
That reminded me of a fight. I just finished off a N1K2 when I look back and see a P-38 bearing down on my high 6 d1k. I did everything I could to take my P-38 in a flight path that the bogie couldn't follow. This in hopes to get some separation to maneuver inside of. We both reversed on each other with about 300 yards seapration at reversal. I took his wing, he took my pilot and I died. No complaints, I converted a tailchase to guns solutions at close quarters. It wasn't a joust, but a race to get guns angles first. Also, I vulched the guy about 10 mins earler, so I asked to get jumped.
Great post Widewing. Oh, the other guy was some putz named HiTech.
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Vudak:
Why are you posting such a long-winded whine? Don't you have anything better to do?
BEFORE YOU RESPOND, I only ask those questions fallaciously to prove a point. Those questions are no different than what you asked the other player on 200.
“Why did you run from a 1v1 when you were in a spitfire?”....I was just wondering how he expected to ever improve if he didn’t challenge himself?
They are the same because just like my questions, your questions are "loaded questions". Loaded questions are questions that have a false or questionable presupposition, and they are "loaded" with that presumption.
The classic loaded question is "When did you stop beating your wife?". If you ask a loaded question, you should expect an animated response.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Originally posted by SkyRock
hee hee NathBDP! Boy that got me soo mad when he called me a lame skilless picker, but it was true, and that's why it got me stirred up so much.
If you are getting your adrenlalin(enjoyment) by being sneaky and cowardly, then you will never stop doing what the spit did. It's two different personality types. One type, like VUDAK, actually found the real adrenalin to be the fight, and the other type, like Falconwng(he flies like the spit did in this story), continues to find the adrenalin in cowardly run/cherry/HO tactics! I have film of Falconwng the other night in a horde trying to cherry me, he gets reversed so goes vert and tries a front quarter/HO, when he misses, he runs(in his la7 against my k-4) right up in under his overwhelming horde that was almost over my base. As soon as I start reversing the 4-6 cons that jumped me, I see him turn around and go for the cherry(of course he misses again) and then gets super aggressive tryin to steal the kill from the others(now at least 8) that were trying to get me. He still didn't get the kill on me.:aok He's been playing since '96! LMAO ROFL:rofl :lol What a waste of game time! I have no problems calling people like him out as just plain cowardly game types!!!!
Mark
your a pathetic individual with obvious issues (burp)...please get help. This game would be a much nicer place without you...and please post the film so others can judge that fight...my recall is an even furball off an enemy base...im sorry you die so easily when odds are even...:cool:
p.s. i dont pay 15 bucks to have a washed up actor force a bullying belittling persona on ch 200. doing that is the epitome of true cowardice...
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
your a pathetic individual with obvious issues (burp)...please get help. This game would be a much nicer place without you...and please post the film so others can judge that fight...my recall is an even furball off an enemy base...im sorry you die so easily when odds are even...:cool:
p.s. i dont pay 15 bucks to have a washed up actor force a bullying belittling persona on ch 200. doing that is the epitome of true cowardice...
:rofl
Bro, go sell your ankle humping to someone who hasn't experienced your lame arse game play. I will post the film, or I should, but I don't think it will change your cowardice ways. You are a pathetic run punk in game, and I will never have a problem pointing that out to anyone who joins our community. Step up, Mike, you weenie boy!:aok You got nothing, but your la7 speed to save your no skill lameness!
HO this statement dweeb, we've already fought and I ownt your lame arse in your own plane! Please continue to recruit and train people in your likeness, without dweebs like you, me and my squad would have little to humor us when we hunt!!!!:aok
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Skyrock/Mark
you have done what we have all done at one time or the other and focused all your energies to mastering a tiny part of this game....im sorry you have no perspective or insight to understand that flying a pretend airplane is useless in the real world...and means even less to us who fly for fun...
you used a shade account to get me in the da late one night...i seem to remeber that once i understood your merge you died easily...if i had known it was you i would never have gone because you are a tool..and i dont waste time with such people...
so please keep telling yourself your great and then log off and return to the real world where people like you are OWNED by people like me in ALL aspects of life....
Once again you demonstrate what a pathetic person you are and i again recommend getting help...try this first line out for your shrink "I am a L33t cartoon fiter pilot who likes to bully folks under an assumed personae that is really not like me at all...":rofl :rofl :rofl good grief man...read what people typed for "worst thing about the game" and realize its you!:lol :rolleyes: :lol even your own squadmates typed it...hee-larious!!! and the sad part is you really don't get it:(
ask your sad self this question "why do i care what falc or anyone flies or how they do it?" its because YOU actually believe it means something...are you that big a flop in real life that you need to put false value on a game??? im beginning to believe acting may not be your only bad venture...
and please dont pm me asking me to call you on the phone...dude i dont like you...seriously...no act....i hope you quit the game soon...i think you are poison for the new players..but most of all you try to ruin other folks fun. i found it humorous that you actually thought i would have kept your number from way back then...i could barely stand your arrogance then..and your actions over the last year have only intensified my feelings of disgust for you...
:t off my ankle puppy! DISMISSED!
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Originally posted by Murdr
If you listened closely to a recent video bio, you'll hear that this is exactly the kind of feedback they got that drove them to learn better ACM. It's not always trash talk for the sake of trash talk. It does have the desired effect sometimes.
Yeah, Murdr, sometimes the trash talk may do the trick, but, unfortunately, I think most of the time it will only do harm to new people. One thing is to poke fun at people you know from a long time and you know will get it and answer in the right mood, one thing is just trash talking people who don't get along with you and you know will just start a flame war on 200....
I agree with Fugitive, who, btw, focused his post on what was the real point of Vudak's post.
Originally posted by The Fugitive
The whole point is, if the "vets" or the "trash talkers" toned it down a bit, maybe the new guys wouldn't pick up that attitude. And maybe if the new guys, or weak flyers didn't jump on the "defensive" with their attitudes they might find more people willing to spend that hour or two in the TA, or have someone tell them how they lost the fight, or just pass a pointer or two along.
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
Skyrock/Mark
you have done what we have all done at one time or the other and focused all your energies to mastering a tiny part of this game....im sorry you have no perspective or insight to understand that flying a pretend airplane is useless in the real world...and means even less to us who fly for fun...
you used a shade account to get me in the da late one night...i seem to remeber that once i understood your merge you died easily...if i had known it was you i would never have gone because you are a tool..and i dont waste time with such people...
so please keep telling yourself your great and then log off and return to the real world where people like you are OWNED by people like me in ALL aspects of life....
Once again you demonstrate what a pathetic person you are and i again recommend getting help...try this first line out for your shrink "I am a L33t cartoon fiter pilot who likes to bully folks under an assumed personae that is really not like me at all..." good grief man...read what people typed for "worst thing about the game" and realize its you! even your own squadmates typed it...hee-larious!!! and the sad part is you really don't get it
ask your sad self this question "why do i care what falc or anyone flies or how they do it?" its because YOU actually believe it means something...are you that big a flop in real life that you need to put false value on a game??? im beginning to believe acting may not be your only bad venture...
and please dont pm me asking me to call you on the phone...dude i dont like you...seriously...no act....i hope you quit the game soon...i think you are poison for the new players..but most of all you try to ruin other folks fun. i found it humorous that you actually thought i would have kept your number from way back then...i could barely stand your arrogance then..and your actions over the last year have only intensified my feelings of disgust for you...
off my ankle puppy! DISMISSED!
I didn't read any part of this that is true. You are a jealous cowardly punk, and apparently a pathological liar as well. You have never beaten me in the DA and you never will. I do not PM you to call me, so why would you want the BBS folks to believe that? Maybe my comment about you being an ankle humper is really spot on, I knew it was anyway. Since the first time I bumped into you in this game, you have been playing the same weak way running and HOing in an la7(11 years running?rofl). It is representative of you and how you would come on to the boards and post complete idiot lies like the ones in this post. So if you can't take someone calling your weak arse out for what it is, then it is your problem, but making up fairytales isn't going to change it.
PS the lie about the DA and your learning my merge..... :rofl You were disposed of very quickly and had no answer for any angles I pulled on you. What a waste of a pathetic bag of puke, you are.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I didn't read any part of this that is true. You are a jealous cowardly punk, and apparently a pathological liar as well. You have never beaten me in the DA and you never will. I do not PM you to call me, so why would you want the BBS folks to believe that? Maybe my comment about you being an ankle humper is really spot on, I knew it was anyway. Since the first time I bumped into you in this game, you have been playing the same weak way running and HOing in an la7(11 years running?rofl). It is representative of you and how you would come on to the boards and post complete idiot lies like the ones in this post. So if you can't take someone calling your weak arse out for what it is, then it is your problem, but making up fairytales isn't going to change it.
PS the lie about the DA and your learning my merge..... :rofl You were disposed of very quickly and had no answer for any angles I pulled on you. What a waste of a pathetic bag of puke, you are.:rolleyes:
lmao...quit lying Mark...dude you are sooo pathetic...again post the film you described above to show us how you dont invent crap (lets see it thru sober eyes ok?)...and feel free to post the da films where you beat me in a la7 v la7....i only remember dueling in spits...
and please...you dont remember you trying to get me to call you the other night??? "dont you still have my number Mike..." you are in so deep you cant see bottom dude...step away from the bottle...we were on squad ch cracking up about it..you even slipped and put it on ch 200 a few times so they knew what was going on...then you logged.
but again feel free to never reference or talk to me again....i have avoided commenting on you...even after that pathetic aces of aces high thing where you tried to justify being a total jerk..."woo-woo im a pretend actor and play local bars so that means im REALLY a nice person".,,lmao...watch Murdr's Aces of Aces High if you want to understand what people who truly want to help others learn do...and how humble they are about it.
Im sorry others have to read this crap but no more free passes for you to lie and bully others...if you are smart you'll stick to harrassing folks in arenas im not in...you are far to easy to expose because you are nothing to begin with...
Once again
Off my ankle puppy! DISMISSED...seriously loser buh-bye:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
unfortunately, I think most of the time it will only do harm to new people.
Gian, many of the people who play this game are capable of understanding what trash talk is and what kind of value they should place it with. You say that trash talk hurts new players:huh ........are new players lil bundles of dweeeb that we should comfort and wipe their arse for them or make sure no bad wittle 200 germs get near them?
I think if someone gets their fun ruined by reading text, then they have placed way too much importance on reading the text. Now, I am speaking of the regular type of smack, such as dweeb, HOer, runner, gangtwit types of comments, not all of the smack I see on 200 is what I would consider within the parameters of the game. I see peeps type things about peoples family and what sexual orientation they are and have seen ethnic and cultural slurs, this type of smack is not good in my opinion, but never did any of it ruin my gameplay. I think many don't like trash talking because they don't like egotistical people, unfortunately ego's are a part of any competitive aspect of human interaction.
I meet many people all the time who have been playing less than a 1/2 year, and they come to the DA and want to fight. Generally, they chuckle about trash talk, or do not even take it seriously in the first place. They want to learn how to be a good fighter, so they find the good fighters and try to get them to fight. This is not uncommon. Since I first started, there has always been trash talkers who were known for their 200 smack. Some of these were really good stiks as well, some were just trash talkers. The only way any trash talking ever affected me was to get me motivated to kick their arse. I mean why would anyone take 200 online game smack to where it made their experience less enjoyable? It is a tunable channel, if it is unbearable, then detune it. If you can figure out how to type, then you can ask how to detune ch 200. More than likely, if a newb asked that question, he gets the Alt F4 comment by some of those same people who say smack hurts new players, I find this to be hypocritical. I always enjoyed the trash talk, it made things more entertaining. It made me want to go find the people and kill them, of course, many of them kicked my arse, but it gave me something to do other than kill those mean old buildings and hangars. Of course, as I have stated before, it was NathBDP calling me a lame no-skill cherry picker that got me motivated to learn to be a good fighter. He was spot on of his assessment of my gameplay at that time.
So, when I hear people talking about smack "hurting" new players, I have to wonder if we are not belittling the new player by categorizing he/she as a human who can't handle themselves in a social environment. :aok
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
lmao...quit lying Mark...dude you are sooo pathetic...again post the film you described above to show us how you dont invent crap (lets see it thru sober eyes ok?)...and feel free to post the da films where you beat me in a la7 v la7....i only remember dueling in spits...
and please...you dont remember you trying to get me to call you the other night??? "dont you still have my number Mike..." you are in so deep you cant see bottom dude...step away from the bottle...we were on squad ch cracking up about it..you even slipped and put it on ch 200 a few times so they knew what was going on...then you logged.
but again feel free to never reference or talk to me again....i have avoided commenting on you...even after that pathetic aces of aces high thing where you tried to justify being a total jerk..."woo-woo im a pretend actor and play local bars so that means im REALLY a nice person".,,lmao...watch Murdr's Aces of Aces High if you want to understand what people who truly want to help others learn do...and how humble they are about it.
Im sorry others have to read this crap but no more free passes for you to lie and bully others...if you are smart you'll stick to harrassing folks in arenas im not in...you are far to easy to expose because you are nothing to begin with...
Once again
Off my ankle puppy! DISMISSED...seriously loser buh-bye:rolleyes:
LMAO, who's in too deep? I called your game play out and you attack my personal life? I am sorry that you can't discern real life from gameplay. You are a joke of a player and obviously have some RL issues to deal with, I wish you luck with them.
Back to game aspects. You are an easy kill as well, 1 vs 1 you have nothing to bring to the table. Very easy to dispose when you can't get away. Hard to believe after 11 years of playing you still suck as bad as you do at fighting. I don't have the films of us dueling, but we can make some more. I would enjoy slapping an 11 year vet around the DA like a two-week newb!! Of course you wont go, as you have stated your moral dilemma about being completely ownt and smacked around by a "jerk". Too funny. :rofl Weaklings like you are easy.:aok
PS Read up on some psychology, you commonly refer to yourself as a group, or as if you are speaking for a group when you are speaking to me, "we were on sqd ch", or "they knew what was going on", or "and means even less to us". You should have some knowlege of this type of behavoir, being that you are college educated. Starting to make sense why you hide in your large squad and in hordes and keep newer players around you all the time. :rofl
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Gianlupo, I wasn't really disagreeing with Fugi, just adding a counter point. In fact I posted more, and then deleted it. I even started to comment on what you brought up.
Which is there is quite a bit going on that newer players don't see the context of. For one thing, there are quite a few around that have known each other and flown together years before AH was around. We are friends, we mess with each other. What we do amongst ourselves over open channels, can easily be misunderstood, whether we are either 100% messing around, or 50% messing around, and forget about it the next day. Point is that much is less serious than it may appear. Also because of the mix of a very old community here, it means we have had all this time to make many friends.
So you got this "Cheers". "everybody knows your name" thing going on, then you add to that, skill with the game, and many others not in that large circle of friends remember that player too. So you end up with "the list" of those 133t players. Thing is, those players got there by leaving an impression one individual at a time. Not by annoying the **** out of everyone with self advertizing time on open channels.
Fugitive is correct in a way, not so much tone down, but a lot is in the presentation. In fact you often don't even have to name names. If they just encountered you, they know darn well who the comments are addressed to. How they choose to react to it is there problem, but the message often boils down to "come on and play like a man, if you're smart enough to play like a wuss, then you have the potential to learn how to actually fight. Use it". It's a challenge to challenge yourself, generally. That seems to get lost on many who try to emulate it for their own promotion, trolling, and bullying.
What I am not doing is advocating abusing other players. In fact I am usually pretty quiet unless provoked, or getting a provoking reply from a general comment. What I am saying is it is a part of the game, and the only problem is too many taking it too far.
I'm done rambling...actually that's why I deleted alot of the other post, it's too long and boaring a subject to cover.
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Skuzzy must be enjoying a Hawaiian cruise.
:D
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Yep...amazing how every decent thread degenerates into sewage. Ah, the anonymity of it all.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Max
Skuzzy must be enjoying a Hawaiian cruise.
:D
:lol I was thinking the same thing!:aok
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Vudak,
If you were my teacher form my NCO course.... I would be paying attention. :aok
I might talk smack some but I do it with all clean fun and have toned down alot and just fly to have fun. I laugh when guys go rabid on 200 and start calling you a newb and all that.... I just enjoy the company. To many good folks in here and in the game. Oh well... just my .02.
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like murdr says, years ago i remember the 'smack talkers' were few and far between. the defining point between now and then.....back then (4 years ago or so) smack talking was done with finesse, class, humour. nowadays everyone wants to be a smack talker and the bar has come down a few notches to the point when there is no class, no style and nothing original about talking smack anymore.
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I blame the BK's for everything wrong with everything :t
Especially, mittens.
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Wow, Bravo!
you really nailed it, and it's great when people will take their own playing time to help others learn and improve, God knows i need all the help i can get ,lol
Thanks for the great post,
Don
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
like murdr says, years ago i remember the 'smack talkers' were few and far between. the defining point between now and then.....back then (4 years ago or so) smack talking was done with finesse, class, humour. nowadays everyone wants to be a smack talker and the bar has come down a few notches to the point when there is no class, no style and nothing original about talking smack anymore.
Thats what Im talking about! years ago you "KNEW" it was all in fun, very rarely did anyone get POed. ALL the smack talk was good natured and fun. Now a days its too raw, vindictive, too personal.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Thats what Im talking about! years ago you "KNEW" it was all in fun, very rarely did anyone get POed. ALL the smack talk was good natured and fun. Now a days its too raw, vindictive, too personal.
one way of getting back to the "Good ol days" might be to try no matter how hard it may be, to keep on the higher path and don't slip down into the negative stuff no matter what is said, i know that for myself this is very hard, but i do try and lately i have stopped myself from saying or doing something on the dark side, lol
i came here to have fun, i won't waste anymore of my time on negative comments. Sometimes you just have to put a humorous spin on it or just leave it alone. I try and keep my mouth shut when i'm frustrated.
Don
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
like murdr says, years ago i remember the 'smack talkers' were few and far between. the defining point between now and then.....back then (4 years ago or so) smack talking was done with finesse, class, humour. nowadays everyone wants to be a smack talker and the bar has come down a few notches to the point when there is no class, no style and nothing original about talking smack anymore.
Hey now!!:furious
:noid
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
like murdr says, years ago i remember the 'smack talkers' were few and far between. the defining point between now and then
Agreed... it is one of the reasons that channel 1 isn't enabled in the MA anymore.
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all I have to say is ................W0W.......... ......
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Well, just do away with chl 200. You want to talk to folks on the other side, PM or PV them. It doesn't always work to 'detune' or 'mute' 200 because a squad mate or someone else lets you know what was being said about/to you.
Just a thought, but it might make a more 'enjoyable' experience for all if we didn't have all the name calling to contend with, either directly or vicariously.
My 0.2's worth. :D
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Originally posted by Nutzoid
It doesn't always work to 'detune' or 'mute' 200 because a squad mate or someone else lets you know what was being said about/to you.
:confused: <----scratches head. What is anyone gonna say that is bad about you? Some guy whining about getting shot down? Rams? HO's? Ganging? Personally I tend to stay off 200 except to say hi and joke with a few friends. If someone actually said something bad about me I'd have to say, "that's nice". If someone says something good about me I'd have to say, "that's nice". It's a game. I came to enjoy it and not listen much to rants and raves. If 200 gets to be alil much, detune and ask yer squadies not to give you minute by minute updates about someone elses rants.
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Ren has smelly feet
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
:confused: <----scratches head. What is anyone gonna say that is bad about you? Some guy whining about getting shot down? Rams? HO's? Ganging? Personally I tend to stay off 200 except to say hi and joke with a few friends. If someone actually said something bad about me I'd have to say, "that's nice". If someone says something good about me I'd have to say, "that's nice". It's a game. I came to enjoy it and not listen much to rants and raves. If 200 gets to be alil much, detune and ask yer squadies not to give you minute by minute updates about someone elses rants.
Extremely well said!:aok
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Originally posted by Scotch
Ren has smelly feet
If you'd pick yer ugly butt off the floor and quit drinking so much ya wudnt be smelling my feet. :)
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
:confused: <----scratches head. What is anyone gonna say that is bad about you? Some guy whining about getting shot down? Rams? HO's? Ganging? Personally I tend to stay off 200 except to say hi and joke with a few friends. If someone actually said something bad about me I'd have to say, "that's nice". If someone says something good about me I'd have to say, "that's nice". It's a game. I came to enjoy it and not listen much to rants and raves. If 200 gets to be alil much, detune and ask yer squadies not to give you minute by minute updates about someone elses rants.
Ren, please reread my post. I never said anyone was saying 'bad' things about me or anyone in particular. There is however a portion of people that do use 200 for talking trash simply because they can, for whatever reason they care to name. But, to some it comes across as hateful or at the very least, mighty unfriendly.
Personally, I don't care. Your game is your game. Having served in the Army back in the mid 70's and as a L.E.O. (Ret), I've pretty much heard, and been called everything but a child of God! While it is true that kids today are more 'in touch' with the way people tend to express themselves (street jargon), especially with kids their own age, do we need 200? I just mentioned the option of doing away with it so that the endless posts about certain users of 200 and some of the [real or imagined] anger in the text, both in game and here in the BBs, would dissipate. Maybe then we would have fewer arguments/name calling, here and in game, about what and why there is soooo much 'smack talking'.
Nope, probably not! We then would start a new series of posts pointing fingers at each other about who the '200 killtard' was! :lol
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i think you nailed it nutzoid. people, humans in general, need something to moan, bicker and cry about. take away channel 200 and we will complain that we cannot talk to our friends on other teams.
its a bit like my misses, she annoys the hell out of me at times, but i figure any woman would annoy me, as i am sure i annoy her, so i should deal with the one i have and make do rather than find a new girl and have a whole new list of problems to work out.
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Originally posted by Nutzoid
Ren, please reread my post. I never said anyone was saying 'bad' things about me or anyone in particular. There is however a portion of people that do use 200 for talking trash simply because they can, for whatever reason they care to name. But, to some it comes across as hateful or at the very least, mighty unfriendly.
Personally, I don't care. Your game is your game. Having served in the Army back in the mid 70's and as a L.E.O. (Ret), I've pretty much heard, and been called everything but a child of God! While it is true that kids today are more 'in touch' with the way people tend to express themselves (street jargon), especially with kids their own age, do we need 200? I just mentioned the option of doing away with it so that the endless posts about certain users of 200 and some of the [real or imagined] anger in the text, both in game and here in the BBs, would dissipate. Maybe then we would have fewer arguments/name calling, here and in game, about what and why there is soooo much 'smack talking'.
Nope, probably not! We then would start a new series of posts pointing fingers at each other about who the '200 killtard' was! :lol
Nutzoid, please reread my post. "YOU" refers to anyone in the game not "you" personally. Also, 200 is an OPTION that you (anyone) can turn on and off and never listen to again. You (anyone) can can also SQUELCH anyone you desire. Now...don't you (personally) understand these options can allow you (anyone) to turn off and never have to listen again (to what you (anyone) might consider smack talk)?
You (anyone) and you (personally) actually only hear what you (anyone) wish to hear in this game. That choice is yours (anyones), not theirs (anyones).
Should you (anyone) and you (pesoanlly) desire to stop smack talking but tards merely say on 200, "sorry I gotta squelch you" then do it. If everyone does that everytime, guess what? People (tards) will begin to get the message.
What's most interesting to note, and any old vet knows this, in old DOS AW the community exerted pressure on undesirable tardiness (and I'm not saying "late") and it stopped. AOHell tried to become their own police department to handle tards which turned into a complete waste of time and energy. HTC has taking a slightly diffferent approach by having mods. The reason issue is it begins in your (anyones) and your (you personally) cockpit. Turn off 200, squelch the tards. It goes away when they have no audience to whine to. If you have kids you know the easiest way to get them in line is to ignore their whines. Why would you (anyone) think this is any different?
Remember you (anyone) and you (personally) allow it by listening to it then bring it here to WHINE and ask for ways to deal with it when you already have the power to deal witih it yourselves (everyone).
Have I made it a tad easier for you to grasp?
The easiest fix is to keep whines from guys like BatfinkV from expressing his annoyance with his girl friends (do you realy have one? :) annoynace of him playing a game is to have a permanent Personal Mute list that stays muted until you change your mind not for just that session. You want 200 for those folks who ain't tards? Mute those who are and all that you will ever hear on 200 are your "friends". If a new tard pipes up on 200 you mute him too. Pretty simple even for the tards to understand. It does away with a need for mods, sorry mods.
Disclaimer: Tard, in this text, can be considering anyone who wishes to disrupt game play with inane chatter designed to let them hear themselves be heard. Ya hea?
Understand?
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
Nutzoid, please reread my post. "YOU" refers to anyone in the game not "you" personally. Also, 200 is an OPTION that you (anyone) can turn on and off and never listen to again. You (anyone) can can also SQUELCH anyone you desire. Now...don't you (personally) understand these options can allow you (anyone) to turn off and never have to listen again (to what you (anyone) might consider smack talk)?
You (anyone) and you (personally) actually only hear what you (anyone) wish to hear in this game. That choice is yours (anyones), not theirs (anyones).
Should you (anyone) and you (pesoanlly) desire to stop smack talking but tards merely say on 200, "sorry I gotta squelch you" then do it. If everyone does that everytime, guess what? People (tards) will begin to get the message.
What's most interesting to note, and any old vet knows this, in old DOS AW the community exerted pressure on undesirable tardiness (and I'm not saying "late") and it stopped. AOHell tried to become their own police department to handle tards which turned into a complete waste of time and energy. HTC has taking a slightly diffferent approach by having mods. The reason issue is it begins in your (anyones) and your (you personally) cockpit. Turn off 200, squelch the tards. It goes away when they have no audience to whine to. If you have kids you know the easiest way to get them in line is to ignore their whines. Why would you (anyone) think this is any different?
Remember you (anyone) and you (personally) allow it by listening to it then bring it here to WHINE and ask for ways to deal with it when you already have the power to deal witih it yourselves (everyone).
Have I made it a tad easier for you to grasp?
The easiest fix is to keep whines from guys like BatfinkV from expressing his annoyance with his girl friends (do you realy have one? :) annoynace of him playing a game is to have a permanent Personal Mute list that stays muted until you change your mind not for just that session. You want 200 for those folks who ain't tards? Mute those who are and all that you will ever hear on 200 are your "friends". If a new tard pipes up on 200 you mute him too. Pretty simple even for the tards to understand. It does away with a need for mods, sorry mods.
Disclaimer: Tard, in this text, can be considering anyone who wishes to disrupt game play with inane chatter designed to let them hear themselves be heard. Ya hea?
Understand?
I'm sorry, can you run thru that again:huh
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Nope cause if I go TOOOOOOOOOOO SLOOOWWWW you will lose your concentration completely. :)
Just a take a lil more ritalin so you can slow down long enough to read it all the through one time and you will get it.
Confused? :lol
By formatting it that way everyone (you plural) has to slow down to grasp what was actually written. It's called diffusin by confusion.
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'you' (plural) is more effectively pronounced or typed 'one', in the queens english.
hope this helps.
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I'm not a queen...no other comment is required from me on your reply. :)
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far be it from me to be the gramma...er....grammer.....gr ammar?......police.
just thought it could save your keyboard some of the hectic work load.
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
Nope cause if I go TOOOOOOOOOOO SLOOOWWWW you will lose your concentration completely. :)
Just a take a lil more ritalin so you can slow down long enough to read it all the through one time and you will get it.
Confused? :lol
By formatting it that way everyone (you plural) has to slow down to grasp what was actually written. It's called diffusin by confusion.
:lol :aok
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
far be it from me to be the gramma...er....grammer.....gr ammar?......police.
just thought it could save your keyboard some of the hectic work load.
Actually I just woke up a lil while ago. Durn mids~! I have the luxury of sitting in my recliner with my 17" Apple laptop so typing isn't an issue. For the record my typing specifically maintained the "you" which included the you (plural) as a joke. :)
Try not readin too much into the actual diction but the intent that was expressed. :)
If you noticecd Yanksfan was having fun with it :).
Rgds
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Great post Vudak....
I think there is a fundamental underlying issue here...and that is the changing definition of "success". When I started success was measured strictly in "pelts". Now a pelt was a kill gained thru a fair match up. This doesn't mean a duel or even an equal start. It meant me in my plane and the other guy in his ride of choice.
You still see this manifested in most of the old guard and some of the new blood. If you ask a guy if he needs to gain alt or if your on his "6" and he just says come on in you know he's
old school". Not all pelts were equal...then or now. You cant pick a pelt you need to earn it....
Now if we look at current game play only the "result" counts, and in many squads....even good ones the focus has switched. I've flown with a few of the more highly regarded squads in the game...before only a couple of guys would drop on a single....now 1/2 the squad will. It's not my place to say if the new way is better or worse...but it certainly is less enjoyable for those like me who treasure a good 1 on 1...and believe that your conduct in that enviornment defines both your skill level and your character....
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hey ren, please note that 99% of my time here is intended with a smile and a laugh. i truly dont care how you (singular) or anyone types, was merely joining in the fun.
:)
Originally posted by humble
Great post Vudak....
I think there is a fundamental underlying issue here...and that is the changing definition of "success". When I started success was measured strictly in "pelts". Now a pelt was a kill gained thru a fair match up. This doesn't mean a duel or even an equal start. It meant me in my plane and the other guy in his ride of choice.
You still see this manifested in most of the old guard and some of the new blood. If you ask a guy if he needs to gain alt or if your on his "6" and he just says come on in you know he's
old school". Not all pelts were equal...then or now. You cant pick a pelt you need to earn it....
Now if we look at current game play only the "result" counts, and in many squads....even good ones the focus has switched. I've flown with a few of the more highly regarded squads in the game...before only a couple of guys would drop on a single....now 1/2 the squad will. It's not my place to say if the new way is better or worse...but it certainly is less enjoyable for those like me who treasure a good 1 on 1...and believe that your conduct in that enviornment defines both your skill level and your character....
for the general populace of the MA you are right snap, but i still find the odd players here and there that know when they deserve the victory or not.
sadly though, you are correct, most of the players i encounter now, even the highly skilled ones, dont care how lame they fly, because you died and they lived and anything you have to say about it is a whine. then, if you are foolish enough to suggest the DA you will only compound they're feelings of contempt for you.
it is our own faults for letting the 'smack talking is cool, a kill is a kill is a kill and anyone who complains is a cry baby' attitude stick around for so long unchecked. what else did the new players have to follow? it is a case of toughen up or take a verbal beating so the new guys come and act like jerks because a few of the vets showed them that is 'how its done' in AH.
my happiness here is assured though, by the fact that for every score potato or jerk i find i almost always find someone worth meeting in the same sortie.
it is case of 'the cup is half full or half empty'. personaly i like to think of the cup as 'half empty'. not because i'm pessimistic but because i drank the other half already and soon can go get a new one from the fridge.
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I'd agree with humble, Vudak........
only other thing I might add is , you might want to PERFECTLY spell, sentence & paragraph check any future postings so they don't let others change direction of what you was trying to accomplish in asking if there was a good way if any to offer help to newer or less knowing players in the TA....
some might get a chance to pick apart your post and send it in an entirely different direction just from the specific wording you may use.......although most get the jest of what you was asking and explaining
the grammar police are every where these days.......
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i think you will notice TC, it is Ren who made personal attacks about my character, my life and my loving partner. i was joking about grammar.
Ren knows nothing and regularly shows everyone how dim he is.
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and you know what Ren, i was recently asked to take part in the 'Aces of Aces High' project, to which i take great compliment.
Infact, i turned down the offer becuase i feel i share myself enough here already and many others deserve it more.
now...i am beggining to think it would have been a good idea to do it and show you my misses and me, both looking young and beautifull and very happy. which you quite clearly are not, in real life.
you cast aspersions over me every chance you get, from the first time you met me here you attacked me. yet have you tried to get to know me? i think not. you are the worst kind of person Ren, you are conceited beyond words, your arrogance is ground breaking, your intelect is obviously less than you believe it is and your compreshension of other people is the worst i have ever seen.
do you just want to bully people? do you want me to write F/Y again in big letters so HTC can ban me? you want me to melt down?
i just dont get it.
the fact that you are a 'trainer' in this game baffles me. not only are you rude, stupid and arrogant you are a rubbish virtual fighter pilot.
have a nice day.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
i think you will notice TC, it is Ren who made personal attacks about my character, my life and my loving partner. i was joking about grammar.
Ren knows nothing and regularly shows everyone how dim he is.
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and you know what Ren, i was recently asked to take part in the 'Aces of Aces High' project, to which i take great compliment.
Infact, i turned down the offer becuase i feel i share myself enough here already and many others deserve it more.
now...i am beggining to think it would have been a good idea to do it and show you my misses and me, both looking young and beautifull and very happy. which you quite clearly are not, in real life.
you cast aspersions over me every chance you get, from the first time you met me here you attacked me. yet have you tried to get to know me? i think not. you are the worst kind of person Ren, you are conceited beyond words, your arrogance is ground breaking, your intelect is obviously less than you believe it is and your compreshension of other people is the worst i have ever seen.
do you just want to bully people? do you want me to write F/Y again in big letters so HTC can ban me? you want me to melt down?
i just dont get it.
the fact that you are a 'trainer' in this game baffles me. not only are you rude, stupid and arrogant you are a rubbish virtual fighter pilot.
have a nice day.
That's nice :)
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i dont find it 'nice' in the slightest, and let me tell you now, if you continue to cast your wide assumptions over my personal life without my invitation i will take the matter up with hitechcreations. that is something i never wished to do here, but you are past the point of reasoning and well into your hole of pure ignorance.
and only a twonk like you would see a point in quoting from the post directly above your reply.......or is this your method to ensure i dont edit it, so you can be sure that HTC see what i wrote? lol for a 30+ year old you sure are childish.
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Um Im not english, so can you please define "twonk" for me? :confused:
(while I do not know what that word means, I am also trying to lighten the mood) :p
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
i think you will notice TC, it is Ren who made personal attacks about my character, my life and my loving partner. i was joking about grammar.
Ren knows nothing and regularly shows everyone how dim he is.
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and you know what Ren, i was recently asked to take part in the 'Aces of Aces High' project, to which i take great compliment.
Infact, i turned down the offer becuase i feel i share myself enough here already and many others deserve it more.
now...i am beggining to think it would have been a good idea to do it and show you my misses and me, both looking young and beautifull and very happy. which you quite clearly are not, in real life.
you cast aspersions over me every chance you get, from the first time you met me here you attacked me. yet have you tried to get to know me? i think not. you are the worst kind of person Ren, you are conceited beyond words, your arrogance is ground breaking, your intelect is obviously less than you believe it is and your compreshension of other people is the worst i have ever seen.
do you just want to bully people? do you want me to write F/Y again in big letters so HTC can ban me? you want me to melt down?
i just dont get it.
the fact that you are a 'trainer' in this game baffles me. not only are you rude, stupid and arrogant you are a rubbish virtual fighter pilot.
have a nice day.
You really want me to start over? Ok, then...
If you notice at the top of this reply, you tell TC you made a joke, Are you the only person in this game that is allowed to make a joke? I returned the favor and you take as an abolsute personal afront to you, your life, your character, to the point that you said F sumtim or other and say you go are gonna melt down?
Then you go on to say you have be asked to do the Aces of Aces High thingy but then say, naw you won't cause you share yourself in here? Then after all that you get so wound up that you just gotta do it after all? Which is it? :rofl You might be right! Let those more deserving get their 15 minutes of fame. I know I'm not but that's fine. :) "Sides, most of us old guys sure enjoy meeting other folks through the interviews. It's done very well.
Ok, let's move on...:). I'm arrogant, stupid, conceited beyond words? What else was there...oh yeah, rude, rubbish virtual fighter pilot. I kinda like that. It rings~! Also, I cast aspersions on you every chance I get? And, lastly, a trainer in the game that baffles you?
In answer to that...
I get up and take my lumps just like everyone else in the arena. I don't make movies and post them everyday about how good I did and everyone should watch just to see how great I am. I can think of at least one person who does that? Can you? Moving on....I never whine about die'n nor do I get all excited and have to rant at the top of my virtual text on 200. Ever! If I get shot down cause I was stupid and say something like "Damn" cause I was stupid, my finger is not on vox. If my saying the guy I fought lost his fight and in my mind it's history and I'm already looking ahead to the next fight. If I die I take off again. I gather that is very arrogant and conceited.
Ok lessee, rubbish virtual fighter pilot....I can't remember that last time I ran across you in the MA and/or shot you down nor if you have ever shot me down so how would you begin to know how I fly? I also can't remember the last time I've ever noticed you flying in the MA and I really don't follow your exploits. If that makes me a rubbish virtual pilot I'd sure like to know how you decided that? :lol
Now, let's spend a minute on the trainer thingy. I've noticed you recently have been showing up in the TA again. You did it a few years back. It's nice to know that you care. Wait a minute...your not a trainer...have you ever been passed over? I mean you sure seem to be stready enough. Opps, wait...you are telling me you have a tendency to melt down. Are you gonna do that with some poor new guy? What about this PSAM thingy? Is that some sort of "hey look at me I'm trying to help? for the trainers benefit? I wonder if you even notice us trainers leave you alone to play with the other folks in there. Your doing your thing. Wait that can't be arrogance on my part, could it?
The trainers fo Aces High go into the TA day in and day out and help anyone and everyone that wants it. They don't care about your skill level, your walk of life, what you do in real life, the country you are from. That's not important. They listen and let you learn from the very outset of your gaming experience at AH2. Trainers don't spend all day trying to show anyone how great they are. They just get up and help people learn the game. The day will never come that you can prove or justify that is not what I do. For now, you are not a trainer and whining is not the way to become one.
You're 24 years old. You still a kid to me. I'm probably a lot older than your Dad. Do you have aproblem with older folks or just someone who's not providing you plaudits on a daily bases? You need to grow up and take what I've written on this topic for what it is, view of one person's take on what I consider a whine and my response to it. I like the author of this thread no less but I stated my POV. Nothing more.. I also offered a fix which requires nothng more than .squelching and staying off 200. I additionally suggested the need for possibly a permanent squelch for those who habitually abuse the text/vox system in the game.
If my having an opposing POV is arrogant, conceited, the worst kind of person, rude, stupid, dim, a lousy virt...opps wait, a rubbish virtual fighter pilot, did you mention short bus...then I'd have to say, I'm guilty as charged and that's nice. :)
You did mention "have I tried to get to know you?" Think about this and melt down if you must....a man's actions speaks volumes of his worth. If you can 't see that why would I want to get to know you better? In fact, while I've said Hi in the Ta I don't think you have ever responded in kind. That being the case I've ever interupted you from doing your thing.
I'm not sure what your issue is but you need to learn to get over it.
One last remark. If someone gets one my bad side for any reason. It lasts until I think of something else which is usually about a minute. I hold no grudges. Somehow, I think you're not quite up to that level yet.
One thing I do have a long memery about and you're not part of it...If some dude keeps sneaking in to steal kills don't ever expect any kind of chk 6 calls or clearing your 6 in the MA. It's the only way I know how to stop them from doing it. Once they learn it's silly to do then as far as I'm concerned its a forgotten subject. There are more than enough people in the MA waiting to be shot down so you don't have to spend your time stealing kills. Alternatively if some buff is egging the field and I'm not stopping him by all means get in and grab the kill before he drops.
Now what was a discussion about vox has been hijacked and for that I appologize. As far as BatfinkV, do whatcha need ta do bud. :)
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Oh my :D
I'm gonna have a long day reading through this all tomorrow...
Look, guys, I haven't read all the replies yet (haven't read any of them since I last posted), but I have a feeling I know where this has gone if the thread is still running strong.
So now, before I'm all ticked off too, let me just say, to everyone, think about the last few paragraphs of the post, ok? Leave everything else out of it for a second and tell me if we didn't all try those things that this wouldn't be a happier world :D
Where's the PLUR, maaaan? :lol
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
The easiest fix is to keep whines from guys like BatfinkV from expressing his annoyance with his girl friends (do you realy have one? :) annoynace of him playing a game is to have a permanent Personal Mute list that stays muted until you change your mind not for just that session.
this was my prompt, explain what you mean if this is not intended as a personal attack.
as usual i have no real clue what you are trying to state, what i do see is an unprovoked insult or two aimed at me.
as for the rest of that which you have written.....it only goes to enforce the fact that you, ren, have absolutely zero comprehension of other people. many a time i have read a thread that you have come into and gone off on a seriously random tangent that has absolutely nothing to do with anything anyone is talking about.
example proven here in your above reply. what does any of what you said have to do with anything at all? seriously random.
i do not care to defend myself against such amusing claims as you have stated above. I am in the TA more often you you are, that is a fact. If you truly believe what you have said about me and my game mentality then you are truly deluded.
you get anyone here who knows me to read your accusations about why i have posted a film, or why i spend time in TA, or why i am part of a group that offers target practice to anyone in the TA....etc....etc... they will laugh at you. (oh and if it makes you feel better, i was once asked if i would consider joining the Training corps, a very long time ago.)
you just simply have absolutely no clue as to what you are talking about, ever. period. end of it.
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thanks for the essays guys:aok
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Originally posted by Vudak
Oh my :D
I'm gonna have a long day reading through this all tomorrow...
Look, guys, I haven't read all the replies yet (haven't read any of them since I last posted), but I have a feeling I know where this has gone if the thread is still running strong.
So now, before I'm all ticked off too, let me just say, to everyone, think about the last few paragraphs of the post, ok? Leave everything else out of it for a second and tell me if we didn't all try those things that this wouldn't be a happier world :D
Where's the PLUR, maaaan? :lol
Sorry Vudak, when I'm at work on a Sunday night all the planes have landed and there is nothing to do. The thought is as long as you posted your essay I'd had the time to continue it.
:)
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Alright, I've "perused" the thread... I am not, not, not, not, NOT going to read every post (I've seen these ones before and ya'll know what I'm talking about).
Few things:
Ren - I don't take anything you've said as a personal attack to me. You call it as you see it and drop it after that. There's no worries here. I still, however, disagree with your assesment of my philosophy and think you're over simplifying it, and quite frankly, giving me a low ball estimate of my intent.
I don't know. The first guy I ever really trained with was Nomak. We were dueling, I caught on fire, I kept trying, he said something along the lines of, "I'm glad you did that, just the other day I was dueling someone else, the same thing happened, I eased off, and he shot me down."
He had a point there. It's the old tee-shirt with the frog being swallowed by the pelican, but the frog's still got his hands around the pelican's neck.
I'm just saying, you and Nomak are both trainers (or were, I'm not sure what he's doing now). You and Nomak are both excellent players. Any guy who trains with either you or Nomak has a good chance of becoming a good player too, but they're *probably* going to be very different types of players too, you know?
It's certainly not a question of, "Please give me an easy kill."
Tango - I see what you're saying about "loaded questions," and you gave me good advice, but if you think this thread's a whine about me getting shot down, you're mistaken.
In retrospect, it was probably a horrible idea to even include those two examples. Though I was trying to illustrate the difference in mentality between the two individuals, it seems all I've done is doomed this thread.
Ah well, just another day on this bulletin boards, eh? :cool:
Oh, and TC... Trust me on this one... "I KNOW ;)" (I'll tell ya a funny story sometime).
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
this was my prompt, explain what you mean if this is not intended as a personal attack.
as usual i have no real clue what you are trying to state, what i do see is an unprovoked insult or two aimed at me.
as for the rest of that which you have written.....it only goes to enforce the fact that you, ren, have absolutely zero comprehension of other people. many a time i have read a thread that you have come into and gone off on a seriously random tangent that has absolutely nothing to do with anything anyone is talking about.
example proven here in your above reply. what does any of what you said have to do with anything at all? seriously random.
i do not care to defend myself against such amusing claims as you have stated above. I am in the TA more often you you are, that is a fact. If you truly believe what you have said about me and my game mentality then you are truly deluded.
you get anyone here who knows me to read your accusations about why i have posted a film, or why i spend time in TA, or why i am part of a group that offers target practice to anyone in the TA....etc....etc... they will laugh at you. (oh and if it makes you feel better, i was once asked if i would consider joining the Training corps, a very long time ago.)
you just simply have absolutely no clue as to what you are talking about, ever. period. end of it.
"i think you will notice TC, it is Ren who made personal attacks about my character, my life and my loving partner. i was joking about grammar. Ren knows nothing and regularly shows everyone how dim he is."
LOL so you are the only one that can make a joke? You catch a lil coming back and all of a sudden it's not a joke. Grow up....
Ref my dribble....it has as much worth as a lot of other mindless dribble that's been rehashed over and over, ad nasuem. Are you beginning to understand yet? And you say I'm dim?
Ahem, yer saying yer in the TA more than I am is defending yerself but that's ok :)
Signed
Clueless, Deluded Ren
That's nice.
:rofl
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er....yeah. infact it was you who insulted me first without provocation, and then I who was 'throwing it back' at you. we are both adults we can both take a bit of verbal with no ill effects.
as of this sentance i am done with this conversation, i have said all i need to say and i will not reply to you anymore.
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Originally posted by Vudak
Ren - I don't take anything you've said as a personal attack to me. You call it as you see it and drop it after that. There's no worries here. I still, however, disagree with your assesment of my philosophy and think you're over simplifying it, and quite frankly, giving me a low ball estimate of my intent.
I dunno. The old saying the "squeeky wheel gets the oil" comes to mind here. Many people want to hear themselves be heard on 200 and they have a tendency to talk smack as they've heard by a select few. Be they new guys, those with a few years or old vets. Perhaps an over simplified answer is in order?
Discussion has always been a Management type answer to a problem. Let's cut back on retirement and let them discuss it endlessly. Will you get it back? Nope but you have the comfort of knowing you are able to voice your opinion even if noone is listening or cares, expect for all the rest of the poor souls that are gonna lose out, too. Politicians use it regularly. Keep em talking and we can do what we want anyway.
You see? That is not a fix.
IF and there is a big IF you feel there is a problem perhaps a statement of the problem and perhaps state a plausible solution is in order. If the solution is for anyone who wants to, squelch 200 and mouths for 1 month and see what happens then go for it.
Back in the old days it was a common tactic to get a new guy to type responses to you on the text buffer while you snuck up his 6 and dusted him. Very funny, silly but they learned from it. :) Kinda like alt-f4 :)
They only o it once.
The only reason I mentioned IF is because I merely squelch the mouths and de-toon 200 when it gets to be a bit much. It only takes a second and I'm still having a good time.
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
IF and there is a big IF you feel there is a problem perhaps a statement of the problem and perhaps state a plausible solution is in order. If the solution is for anyone who wants to, squelch 200 and mouths for 1 month and see what happens then go for it.
Well, I mean, Ren... That's kind of what I did. I stated what I perceived as a problem in the post (basically, people jumping the gun and thinking the worst of any comment), and suggested a solution (basically, three types of players still playing how they want, but with all three compromising in how they act/react to one another a bit).
Now, whether or not I'm correct in assessing the current situation as a problem, and whether or not my suggested "solutions" (perhaps... "steps forward" suits it better?) are really workable is up for debate. I do have to say though, in my eyes, your reaction to my first post was a good example of what I see as part of the "problem."
As I see it, you read my post, and immediately thought something along the lines of (very oversimplified) "Vudak's whining." Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, maybe it's a bit in the middle. The point is, you're doing exactly what I described in the first post as the "It's my $15 type's" contribution to "the problem." Basically, take everything I say, and reduce it to, "He's whining, don't pay attention to him." At least that's how it came off to me (but as we've all seen, text does have serious limitations).
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and whether or not you've got it right doesn't really matter much in this life, just like my opinions don't mean much either. But the point is, what you've just done, in my eyes, is taken the situation a step back, or at least kept it put.
What I'd suggest - and you don't have to take it, if you don't want to - is to say something along the lines of: "Vudak, you probably meant well, but it came off as whining. Try a different approach instead." That right there, is a step forward.
Basically, in my eyes, we as a community should stop jumping right to conclusions and start trying to give each other the benefit of the doubt. We can and should still express our opinions, be it that "Vudak's whining," or anything else, but we should give each other the benefit of the doubt in the same breath.
I realize that works both ways, and I realize that in the particular situation I highlighted, I didn't do a very good job of it myself. You're quite right - he could have just been extending. For all I know, he might have been waiting to get a few hundred yards further before reversing. I didn't give him that benefit of the doubt, and figured he'd just keep on running. Perhaps a better question for me to have asked him would have been, "Were you looking to get some more seperation before reversing?" If he answered, "Yeah, I wanted a little more space," I could have said something like, "Well, you probably could get away with it reversing a little closer. Would you like me to help you see how?" Maybe that would have worked better. Then again, hindsight is 20/20.
The bottom line is, none of us are saints here. We could all work on being a little friendlier and less defensive and offensive towards one another. It can't possibly hurt the game.
I'm going to make an effort to try it, and I hope some of you from all walks of this game will too.
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Originally posted by Vudak
Tango - I see what you're saying about "loaded questions," and you gave me good advice, but if you think this thread's a whine about me getting shot down, you're mistaken.
No, I didn't presume you were whining at all :). To insinuate that you were demonstrates a "false or questionable presumption" on my part. That was the intent of my fake (fallacious) questions, to demonstrate how people load questions and don't even realize it. My apologies if that wasn't clear :).
An easy way to get someone else riled up is for me to ask a loaded question, so I shouldn't be surprised at their response if I do so. The bigger issue is if I even know I loaded the question.
I'm all for civility. We all have a responsibility to do our part to make the community a healthy one and not turn it into a sewer.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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I wonder how many people have been taken to Emergency with bruised sternums since this thread was started?
It's a game folks.