Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: PanzerIV on September 07, 2007, 10:18:43 PM
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Sixty-three years ago, Nazi Germany ha d overrun almost all of Europe and ha mmered England to the verge of bankruptcy and defeat. The Nazis ha d sunk more t ha n 400 British ships in their convoys between England and America taking food and war materials.
At t ha t time the US was in an isolationist, pacifist mood, and most Americans wanted nothing to do with the European or the Asian war.
Then along came Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, and in outrage Congress unanimously declared war on Japan , and the following day on Germany, who ha d not yet attacked us. It was a dicey thing. We ha d few allies .
France was not an ally, as the Vichy government of France quickly aligned itself with its German occupiers. Germany was certainly not an ally, as Hitler was intent on setting up a Thousand Year Reich in Europe. Japan was not an ally, as it was well on its way to owning and controlling all of Asia.
Together, Japan and Germany ha d long-range plans of invading Canada and Mexico, as launching pads to get into the United States over our northern and southern borders, after they finished gaining control of Asia and Europe.
America's only allies then were England, Ireland, Scotland, Canada, Australia, and Russia. T ha t was about it All of Europe, from Norway to Italy (except Russia in the East) was already under the Nazi heel.
The US was certainly not prepared for war. The US ha d drastically downgraded most of its military forces after WW I because of the depression, so t ha t at the outbreak of WW II, Army units were training with broomsticks because they didn't ha ve guns, and cars with "tank" painted on the doors because they didn't ha ve real tanks. A huge chunk of
our Navy ha d just been sunk or damaged at Pearl Harbor.
Britain ha d already gone bankrupt, saved only by the donation of $600 million in gold bullion in the Bank of England (t ha t was actually the property of Belgium ) given by Belgium to England to carry on the war when Belgium was overrun by Hitler (a little known fact).
Actually, Belgium surrendered on one day, because it was unable to oppose the German invasion, and the Germans bombed Brussels into rubble the next day just to prove they could
Britain ha d already been holding out for two years in the face of staggering losses and the near decimation of its Royal Air Force in the Battle of Britain, and was saved from being overrun by Germany only because Hitler made the mistake of thinking the Brits were a relatively minor threat t ha t could be dealt with later. Hitler, first turned his attention to Russia, in the late summer of 1940 at a time when England was on the verge of collapse.
Ironically, Russia saved America's butt by putting up a desperate fight for two years, until the US got geared up to begin ha mmering away at Germany.
Russia lost something like 24,000,000 people in the sieges of Stalingrad and Moscow alone . . .. 90% of them from cold and starvation, mostly civilians, but also more t ha n a 1,000,000 soldiers.
Had Russia surrendered, Hitler would ha ve been able to focus his entire war effort against the Brits, then America. If t ha t ha d ha ppened, the Nazis could possibly ha ve won the war.
All of this ha s been brought out to illustrate t ha t turning points in history are often dicey things. Now, we find ourselves at another one of those key moments in history.
There is a very dangerous minority in Islam t ha t either ha s, or wants, and may soon ha ve, the ability to deliver small nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons, almost anywhere in the world .
The Ji ha dis, the militant Muslims, are basically Nazis in Kaffiyahs -- they believe t ha t Islam, a radically conservative form of Wah ha bi Islam, should own and control the Middle East first, then Europe, then the world. To them, all who do not bow to their will of thinking should be killed, enslaved, or subjugated. They want to finish the Holocaust, destroy Israel, and purge the world of Jews. This is their mantra. (goal)
There is also a civil war raging in the Middle East -- for the most part not a hot war, but a war of ideas. Islam is ha ving its Inquisition and its Reformation, but it is not yet known which side will win -- the Inquisitors, or the Reformationists.
If the Inquisition wins, then the Wah ha bis, the Ji ha dis, will control the Middle East, the OPEC oil, and the US , European, and Asian economies.
The techno-industrial economies will be at the mercy of OPEC -- not an OPEC dominated by the educated, rational Saudis of today, but an OPEC dominated by the Ji ha dis. Do you want gas in your car? Do you want heating oil next winter? Do you want the dollar to be worth anything? You ha d better hope the Ji ha d, the Muslim Inquisition, loses, and the Islamic Reformation wins.
If the Reformation movement wins, t ha t is, the moderate Muslims who believe t ha t Islam can respect and tolerate other religions, live in peace with the rest of the world, and move out of the 10th century into the 21st, then the troubles in the Middle East will eventually fade away. A moderate and prosperous Middle East will emerge.
We ha ve to help the Reformation win, and to do t ha t we ha ve to fight the Inquisition, i.e., the Wah ha bi movement, the Ji ha d, Al Qaeda and the Islamic terrorist movements. We ha ve to do it somewhere. We can't do it everywhere at once. We ha ve created a focal point for the battle at a time and place of our choosing . . . . . . . . in Iraq . Not in New York , not in London , or Paris or Berlin , but in Iraq, where we are doing two important things.
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(1) We deposed Saddam Hussein. Whether Saddam Hussein was directly involved in the 9/11 terrorist attack or not, it is undisputed t ha t Saddam ha s been actively supporting the terrorist movement for decades Saddam is a terrorist! Saddam is, or was, a weapon of mass destruction, responsible for the deaths of probably more t ha n a 1,000,000 Iraqis and 2,000,000 Iranians
(2) We created a battle, a confrontation, a flash point, with Islamic terrorism in Iraq. We ha ve focused the battle. We are killing bad people, and the ones we get there we won't ha ve to get here. We also ha ve a good shot at creating a democratic, peaceful Iraq, which will be a catalyst for democratic c ha nge in the rest of the Middle East, and an outpost for a stabilizing American military presence in the Middle East for as long as it is needed.
WW II, the war with the Japanese and German Nazis, really began with a "whimper" in 1928. It did not begin with Pearl Harbor. It began with the Japanese invasion of China. It was a war for fourteen years before the US joined it. It officially ended in 1945 -- a 17 year war -- and was followed by another decade of US occupation in Germany and Japan to get those countries reconstructed and running on their own again . . a 27 year war.
WW II cost the United States an amount equal to approximately a full year's GDP -- adjusted for inflation, equal to about $12 trillion dollars. WW II cost America more t ha n 400,000 soldiers killed in action, and nearl y 100,000 still missing in action.
The Iraq war ha s, so far, cost the United States about $160,000,000,000, which is roughly w ha t the 9/11 terrorist attack cost New York. It ha s also cost about 3,000 American lives, which is roughly equivilant to lives t ha t the Ji ha d killed (within the United States) in the 9/11 terrorist attack .
The cost of not fighting and winning WW II would ha ve been unimaginably greater -- a world dominated by Japanese Imperialism and German Nazism .
This is not a 60-Minutes TV show, or a 2-hour movie in which everything comes out okay . The real world is not like t ha t. It is messy, uncertain, and sometimes bloody and ugly. It always ha s been, and probably always will be
The bottom line is t ha t we will ha ve to deal with Islamic terrorism until we defeat it, whenever t ha t is. It will not go away if we ignore it .
If the US can create a reasonably democratic and stable Iraq, then we ha ve an ally, like England , in the Middle East, a platform, from which we can work to help modernize and moderate the Middle East. The history of the world is the clash between the forces of relative civility and civilization, and the barbarians clamoring at the gates to conquer the world.
The Iraq War is merely another battle in this ancient and never ending war. Now, for the first time ever, the barbarians are about to get nuclear weapons. Unless somebody prevents them from getting them.
We ha ve four options:
1. We can defeat the Ji ha d now, before it gets nuclear weapons.
2. We can fight the Ji ha d later, after it gets nuclear weapons (which may be as early as next year, if Iran's progress on nuclear weapons is w ha t Iran claims it is).
3. We can surrender to the Ji ha d and accept its dominance in the Middle East now; in Europe in the next few years or decades, and ultimately in America.
OR
4. We can stand down now, and pick up the fight later when the Ji ha d is more widespread and better armed, per ha ps after the Ji ha d ha s dominated France and Germany and possibly most of the rest of Europe. It will, of course, be more dangerous, more expensive, and much bloodier.
If you oppose this war, I hope you like the idea t ha t your children, or grandchildren, may live in an Islamic America under the Mullahs and the S ha ria, an America t ha t resembles Iran today.
The history of the world is the history of civilization clashes, cultural clashes. All wars are about ideas, ideas about w ha t society and civilization should be like, and the most determined always win.
Those who are willing to be the most ruthless always win . The pacifists always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them .
Remember, perspective is every thing, and America's schools teach too little history for perspective to be clear, especially in the young American mind.
The Cold War lasted from about 1947 at least until the Berlin Wall came down in 1989; forty-two years!
Europe spent the first ha lf of the 19th century fighting Napoleon, and from 1870 to 1945 fighting Germany!
World War II began in 1928, lasted 17 years, plus a ten year occupation, and the US still ha s troops in Germany and Japan. World War II resulted in the death of more t ha n 50,000,000 people, maybe more t ha n 100,000,000 people, depending on which estimates you accept.
The US ha s taken more t ha n 3,000 killed in action in Iraq.. The US took more t ha n 4,000 killed in action on the morning of June 6, 1944 , the first day of the Normandy Invasion to rid Europe of Nazi Imperialism.
In WW II the US averaged 2,000 KIA a week -- for four years. Most of the individual battles of WW II lost more Americans t ha n the entire Iraq war ha s done so far.
The stakes are at least as high . . A world dominated by representative governments with civil rights, human rights, and personal freedoms . . or a world dominated by a radical Islamic Wah ha bi movement, by the Ji ha d, under the Mullahs and the S ha ria (Islamic law).
It's difficult to understand why the average American does not grasp this. They favor human rights, civil rights, liberty and freedom, but evidently not for Iraqis.
"Peace Activists" always seem to demonstrate here in America , where it's safe.
Why don't we see Peace Activist demonstrating in Iran, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Spain, North Korea, in the places t ha t really need peace activism the most? I'll tell you why! They would be killed!
The liberal mentality is supposed to favor human rights, civil rights, democracy, multiculturalism, diversity, etc., but if the Ji ha d wins, wherever the Ji ha d wins, it is the end of civil rights, human rights, democracy, multiculturalism, diversity, etc.
Americans who oppose the liberation of Iraq are coming down on the side of their own worst enemy!
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I'm sry I didn't catch all of that. Can you please repeat it?:D
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Its History
Trosnky
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We also have to spell "have" without a space to be successful.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
We also have to spell "have" without a space to be successful.
Add had, than, that, and anymore spacious words and we'll be really successful:D
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Riiiight. Were th ose your words or just a co py and pa ste?
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Originally posted by nirvana
Riiiight. Were th ose your words or just a co py and pa ste?
http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2006/03/historical_revi.html
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2006/03/historical_revi.html
The constant spaces gave it away as a C&P I just wanted to see his response. No one would take the time to type up that awe inspiring essay just for us.:(
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2006/03/historical_revi.html
:O Panzer is so busted!!!!!!:O
:noid
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It does look like a cut & paste, and if it is, it would be a great idea to credit the original author in some way. Perhaps a link to the original work.
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my post made it at 4:38, rips made it at 4:33, but I didnt see any of them before I posted.
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I got it from a email, anyway I did not write it, but I found it interesting.
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To much text, my attention span isn't that long.
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Originally posted by Coshy
my post made it at 4:38, rips made it at 4:33, but I didnt see any of them before I posted.
Where you reading that whole lesson? Cause if you were, then you wouldn't see that someone posted until you exit out of the thread then come back in.
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I got to the part where the US declared war on Germany. I guess that it
was only fair that we declared war on them after Hitler went ahead and
declared it on us first :D
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Originally posted by Coshy
my post made it at 4:38, rips made it at 4:33, but I didnt see any of them before I posted.
:noid :noid :noid :p
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Originally posted by Dago
To much text, my attention span isn't that long.
We know. :p
For Dago:
Then: Hitler and Aryan Race bad
Now: Osama and Radical Muslims bad
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I found this on google, looks funny.
(http://depts.washington.edu/engl/ewp/eg/images/jusayan/fig1.gif)
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I read it all & found it very interesting, but I'm a history dweeb. Thx for sharing it.
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
I found this on google, looks funny.
(http://depts.washington.edu/engl/ewp/eg/images/jusayan/fig1.gif)
:rofl
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
Sixty-three years ago, Nazi Germany ha d overrun almost all of Europe and ha mmered England to the verge of bankruptcy and defeat. The Nazis ha d sunk more t ha n 400 British ships in their convoys between England and America taking food and war materials.
At t ha t time the US was in an isolationist, pacifist mood, and most Americans wanted nothing to do with the European or the Asian war.
You weren't doing too bad til you hit the second paragraph.
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Wow! That was one of the worst essays i have ever read. i think i may have died a little inside.
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
Then along came Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, and in outrage Congress unanimously declared war on Japan , and the following day on Germany, who ha d not yet attacked us. It was a dicey thing. We ha d few allies .
The vote was not unanimous. Jeanette Rankin, (R Mont) the first female US Representative, was the single dissenting vote against the Declaration of War against Japan.
She also was one of 50 to vote against the declaration to enter WW1.
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It's not history just opinion masquerading as history.
Just a point or two. The list of allies missed out on New Zealand and South Africa. If you want to mention Scotland you might as well mention Wales but much better to just say the United Kingdom.
Ireland was neutral, the independant part anyway.
As for the rest, I believe the comparisons are spurious. Germany and Japan were a threat, not only that they had the capability to carry out their threats.
If the US can create a reasonably democratic and stable Iraq, then we ha ve an ally, like England , in the Middle East, a platform, from which we can work to help modernize and moderate the Middle East.
America already had and has allies in the middle east, Egypt, Saudi, Kuwait.
Islamic terrorism is a threat but in comparsion to the axis powers or even the Soviet Union it has no real military capability. Even a nuclear terrorist attack would only be a pinsalamander in the overall scheme of things.
The whole text is an attempt to play on people's fears and prejudice. The thrust of it is to to justify the intervention in Iraq and to characterise it as the front line in a new world war.
If you oppose this war, I hope you like the idea that your children, or grandchildren, may live in an Islamic America under the Mullahs and the Sharia, an America that resembles Iran today.
That is so absurd, it's almost laughable. There is also ridiculous notion that Europe will fall under Islamic control. Iran is Shia, the mortal enemy of the Wahabi sect thus the mortal enemy of Al Qaeda.
The author also fails to realise that Islamic terrorism is directed as much at the fellow Muslims as us infidels. The real war on terror is being fought internally. Of the hundreds of thousands who have died because of their actions. The absolute majority were in fact Muslims.
The Shia/Sunni split is the real crux of the situation. One or other would have to eliminate it's opponent before they could sail their invasion barges to the US coast.
I have to say the whole thing is a typical internet scare story.
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link http://my.earthlink.net/article/int?guid=20070908/46e21e40_3421_1334520070908-1060472261
algeria has been fighting el quida for 15 years, where have you been?
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Originally posted by cpxxx
Even a nuclear terrorist attack would only be a pinsalamander in the overall scheme of things.
9/11 cost our economy a cumulative loss in national income through the end of 2003 of 5 percentage points of annual GDP, or half a trillion dollars. thats for a few acres of lower Manhattan and of course the 3,000 lives. A small nuke that would kill 10 or 20 times that many? 50 times that many?
more of a shiv to the midsection than a pinsalamander if you ask me.
Originally posted by cpxxx
That is so absurd, it's almost laughable. There is also ridiculous notion that Europe will fall under Islamic control.
The Swiss are trying to ban mineret construction... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6676271.stm) seems they have that ridiculous notion too.
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
I found this on google, looks funny.
(http://depts.washington.edu/engl/ewp/eg/images/jusayan/fig1.gif)
The one in silver is Hillary the the midget is Obama?
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Originally posted by Meatwad
The one in silver is Hillary the the midget is Obama?
lmao!:lol