Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: faminz on September 09, 2007, 09:53:42 PM
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I am currently reading Hans Ulrich Rudel’s autobiography ‘Stuka pilot’ and it started me musing over how we could increase the usage of the Ju-87 in Aces High.
well why not?
Obviously it is hardly used in the main arena except by newbies, show offs or damn fools but in real life it was a tough well liked old bird that performed the anti armour mission on the Russian front remarkably well.
And I feel we do need a good anti armour plane.
Of course, like all things in life, tweaking a plane’s parameters always has to be a compromise. Give with one hand and take with another so we don’t get an uber-plane.
Well, in the Stuka’s case I think it already has enough cons (under powered, lack of fighter maneuverability, damn all ammo.. ie: a sitting duck.
But what could we do to increase its use?
Well, I hereby suggest two things:
1. Lets have the G version with those under-wing 37mm cannon. Think tank-buster! You have a swarm of armour attacking your base? If this bird was available would you take it up and start hunting T-34’s. Damn right I would for one! Are the tanks more vulnerable from the rear? I seem to remember this is actually modelled somewhere. Then lets emulate Rudel and hedge hop around to their backside for a lead enema! Cool! Surely this wouldnt be a hugh job for Hitechcreations?
2. Lets enable the CCIP dive bomber sight online just for this plane. The stuka was noted for its pin point accuracy with bombs. Rudel notes how he used to go fishing with 100kg bombs in nearby rivers! In a screaming dive they were very accurate. So give that plane the dive bomb sight that is usually only available offline.
Whaddaya think?
Lets start hunting Tanks!
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Originally posted by faminz
And I feel we do need a good anti armour plane.
While I'll would like to see the 87G, it's not that we do not have any good anti-armor planes right now:
Il-2 (cannon outright kills everything but T-34 and Tiger)
Hurricane IID ( no tank in game is save from being nailed by it)
B-25H (not a dedicated GV killer by design but it works...)
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I believe the stuka could use some lovin' pehaps the G model. But to enable the TA sight is not a good idea. I can bomb accuratey in a stuka without it and so can scores of other people, it just takes practice.
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At this point all the stuka is is a milk running tool...I'd love the G.
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All you have to do is use it. I've got 26 kills and no deaths in it so far this camp through all three arenas (EW, MW and LW) including 2 air kills. I mean, sure, it would be nice but I'm not sure I see what the cannons add and all we need is HOing Stukas.
[EDIT] You don't need a special drop sight. This plane is incredibly accurate in it's drops as it is. Probably moreso than any other plane in the game (which is why I've been flying it so much).
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
All you have to do is use it. I've got 26 kills and no deaths in it so far this camp through all three arenas (EW, MW and LW) including 2 air kills. I mean, sure, it would be nice but I'm not sure I see what the cannons add and all we need is HOing Stukas.
It would be a waste to try and HO in a G-1 since all the ammo it carried for the 37mm cannon 6 to 12 rounds per pod.
Now, if we had the D-5 with wing mounted 20mm cannons then I'd worry about people trying to HO in the Stuka.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by faminz
2. Lets enable the CCIP dive bomber sight online just for this plane. The stuka was noted for its pin point accuracy with bombs. Rudel notes how he used to go fishing with 100kg bombs in nearby rivers! In a screaming dive they were very accurate. So give that plane the dive bomb sight that is usually only available offline.
Whaddaya think?
Lets start hunting Tanks!
Ju87s didn't use CCIP, so why should we add it to the game?
ack-ack
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Go to custom sounds and skins and check out the siren I made, I got pretty positive responses on it. Make sure you go to the thread labeled Stuka siren V2.0, Stuka Siren V1 isnt very good.
Oh yeah, just learn how to dive bomb, I find it very accurate even without the green blob helping out. If you want, find the sight called JABO, that can help you out in dive bombing.
and weren't the 37mm semi automatic?
look up on youtube for great footage of Gs in training and combat.
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Stuka is used, I use, as do many pilots, its accurate and a great gv killer, the only reason you see the image of a stuka is great is because they operated in numbers. I once hosted a Ju87 mission against a cv task group. It was fun seeing 28 stukas in formation in the old Ma and we demolished the task group and almost every base in the vicinity with ord to spare.
-Freezman
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I agree on the G. While I dont like its looks, I will ALWAYS want more Iron Aircraft!
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i love the stuka, i fly it often in missions as evenhaim said earlier, they own in missions and in groups because there not as defenceless and those 1800kg bombs pack's a wallop, can level a whole base or task group with a good 7+. But i would like to see a tank buster or more verisons of the stuka please, STUKA NEEDS SOME LUVIN 2:aok
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Done a few missions in Stuka's........mostly against cv's.......good fun.....only snag is getting bounced by someone in a 262 (last mission I was on)...took virtually the whole lot of us down...lol.......too funny.......did try and turn into him, but with that 1800 on it....turns like a very slow house brick.......
Cant beat a bit of stuka action...(I blame MJTalon...he always gets me into a stuka mish...lol...)
Wurzel
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Ju87s didn't use CCIP, so why should we add it to the game?
I've occasionally thought it would be a good idea to give dedicated dive bombers a more accurate bomb sight. Historically they tended to be the most accurate bombers (on a bomb-for-bomb basis). But the regular bomb sight is so easy in AH that there's every reason NOT to take an SBD or Val or Stuka up for a spin.
So: given that none of these bomb sights are historically accurate, giving the dive bombers a better sight encourages a historically accurate distinction. How's that?
- oldman
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Originally posted by gpwurzel
Done a few missions in Stuka's........mostly against cv's.......good fun.....only snag is getting bounced by someone in a 262 (last mission I was on)...took virtually the whole lot of us down...lol.......too funny.......did try and turn into him, but with that 1800 on it....turns like a very slow house brick.......
Cant beat a bit of stuka action...(I blame MJTalon...he always gets me into a stuka mish...lol...)
Wurzel
lol i remember that mission :rofl 262 downed all of us but it was TOO funny because he came back for the last after about 7 passes, anyway stuka missions are hella fun, just gotta have some escort's and good formation flying with a bit of coordanation and you'll deliver those whopping 1800kg bombs all the time.:aok
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Firstly we simply cannot have a decent German bomber with a decent gun, probably because they already have 30mms in fighters and too much big guns would make the opposition feel like "inferiorly equipped".
Of course that was partly remedied with B25s 75mm but having a 20mm in Ju88 or those 37mms in Ju87 would again lopside the situation... ;)
Secondly...errrr.. well.....
-C+
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Stuka without the sirens
is like Dolly Parton
without the melons.
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The Stuka is great for anti-shipping duties, and taking out that 1 hangar thats holding everything up. 1800Kg of love for any target you want, what's not to like about that?
Personally it is my anti-shipping weapon of choice. I find a CV attacking a airfield close to shore. I climb up to 15K with the Stuka and no body molests me on the way in, because they are all down in the weeds furballing.:D First one takes out most of the CV AAA and radar. I land and re-up to kill the crusier. If I feel particularly spiteful, I kill the DEs surrounding the CV, before again going after the CV itself. If I can get together two other pilots that are great with the Stuka, then no attacking CV group, or VH, would be safe. 2 on the CV and 1 on the CA and that CV group is just a bunch of DEs waiting to respawn
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iron cross, you've got to fly a few stuka sorties and mission's with me man, you'll love it, i'm mainly in LW blue or with my squad the AA:aok i'll keep a look out for ya so we could fly some stuka sorties sometimes :)
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The story of the Stuka vs a formation of afk Lancasters:
I was flying along in a Stuka with an 1800kg bomb halfway to an enemy base, when suddenly I heard some engine noise, I'd passed right by a formation of lancs coming from that base going to mine. I immediately dropped my bomb, turned around, and went after the lancs. Just as I suspected, the lancs guy was afk.
My front machineguns have a 2000 round load (1000 per gun)
Convergence setting? I don't remember.
I started firing after 400yrds, endless pairs of flashes across it back and forth till point blank range.
1500 bullets (which took a long time to fire btw) of almost 100% hits into it and got no smoke at all, only 1 small piece (airleron possilbly), then finally, at about point blank range, it just blew up. (I got kill credit for it)
Then I put my remaining 500 bullets into the 2nd lanc from under 200yrds, which only got me an assist after someone else finished it and the third one.
The lancs never fired any bullets nor turned at all, the guy was afk the whole time.
I did not get to use the Stuka's rear gun.
Do we have a stuka or a suka? :cry
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Beware the great german nerf'ed waffe.
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well let's see. Seeing that it has 2 guns and you were shooting armored buffs, no wonder it took all day, that verison is mainly a Dber anyway. WE NEED MORE STUKA VARIANTS PLEASE :mad:
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I understand that this is mostly a figther plane game so the fewer gv's need luv (protection) also... but if what Lusche was saying is correct... that other planes guns can seriously hurt tanks... then the question becomes why not a Stuka's guns? A Stuka variant with atleast one notch up of amo would be nice, atleast for air fighting... fair/balanced/historical?
I am thankfull that atleast the rear gun is a double 7.92mm instead of a single. And I'm also thankful for the selections of bombloads - one day I'll understand the bomb damage stuff more to use them, till then its the 1800.
Issues though: I, II, and III
I) Which countries plane to fly?
A hurricane IIC654321ABCDEFG instead of a Stuka?
Oh yeah, sure, lets fly an enemies plane! Not happening!
Some of us 'uber' folks might only wish to fly the Stuka, a plane of the Grrrreat Geerrman LuUft'waffe!!! :D
Not a geighestcane nor an ILwuteva2 either!
II) We must have a bombload to take off?
The IL2, which by the way, in game, can take off without a bombload...
The stuka can't up if the Ordinance Building is down, and that alone, imho, totally completely sux really badly.
If the Arado can take off without a bombload, why does any plane have to? (think about it, only fixed rearward firing guns... I once was shot down by one though heh.)
So I hereby begeth thine ghods (of whatever) to make the Stuka able to take off without bombs... i.e. without having to have the Ordinance Building up, especially for those times when the fighter hangar is down. I understand that the hangar is kinda crowded with all of the appreciated bomb load selections; however, one more option is required. 'No bomb load' option please please pretty please, with sugar on top please!!!
One could speculate why the Ordinance Building is one of the first to be destroyed. I think it has to do with the goal of 'sustained long-term vultching' although I am quite sure that the reason is not to stop lil ole me from upping in my Stuka, unless they're skeerd! :huh :D
Selective information about taking off and having to have a bomb load:
1) The Arado and TBM are the only two 'bombers' that can take off without a bomb load. TBM is like a stuka with an extra gun underneath. An Arado without bombs is a sight seeing plane for those without the points for a 262?
2) The TBM (bout 17k lbs) is similar to the Stuka(13k lbs), except that the TBM has an extra underneath gun facing backward. The TBM can, why can't a Stuka take off without bombs?
For bomber/attack planes:
3) Something odd is that the B5N (Japan torpedo bomber, about 8.3k lbs) cannot take off without bombs (or torpedo). So the TBM can but the B5N can't. B5N only as the rear firing gun so it wouldn't be a dogfiter anyways.
4) The IL2 and the Stuka weigh about 13k lbs... the IL2 can up with no bombs but the Stuka can't? Phooey!!! Fowl, Fake, not fair... booogus.
5) The SBD (USA dive bomber) and D3A (Japan divebomber) can but the Stuka (german divebomber) can't... again boooogus fake phooey no fair!
III) WHY IS THE STUKA's FLOOR WINDOW BLOCKED BY THE BOMB? realistic??? Window sposed to be forward more? Bomb size is too big?
I read somewhere that they started their dive-run after alligning the target thru that window. Hmm, I also remember seeing them roll to the side before diving also... hmm. Did the Junkers company mess up or have some graphical errors have occurred? :rolleyes:
What seeems to be the problem? Schlowy :)
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Originally posted by Virage
Stuka without the sirens
is like Dolly Parton
without the melons.
I made a Stuka siren sound, go to Custom sounds and skins and pick it up if you want it.
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Originally posted by gpwurzel
Done a few missions in Stuka's........mostly against cv's.......good fun.....only snag is getting bounced by someone in a 262 (last mission I was on)...took virtually the whole lot of us down...lol.......too funny.......did try and turn into him, but with that 1800 on it....turns like a very slow house brick.......
Cant beat a bit of stuka action...(I blame MJTalon...he always gets me into a stuka mish...lol...)
Wurzel
Hahaha
That was hilarious.
It took him ages to get me.
I didn't want to ditch my ord... I thought he'd get bored trying to BnZ something that was moving at about 80 miles an hour.
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something like this?
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=105651
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And another thing...
IV) Firing and targetting the rear gun.
That auto level junk potty which activates everytime I switch to the gunner station needs to be turn off'able. I would actually like to be able to set it so that it pulls up slightly and rolls slightly in order for the rear gun to be able to get a shot at persuing bogies.
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Originally posted by Xjazz
something like this?
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=105651
OMFG :O :O :O I LOVE THOSE PICS OF THE STUKA CANNON VERISON! WOOW:aok hitech, cannon verison stuka next please :cry
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NICE STUKA!!!!! If only we had that in the game.
Another thing about the bomb loadout:
Wasn't it able to carry smaller bombs (like 4 250kg) or something else without having to carry that big 1000 or 1800 kg bomb. Whats the point in using a big bomb like that on just one gv? I would love to see a different loadout for that thing. That way i can use it more for anti-armor.
Banshee7
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Originally posted by rednex21
NICE STUKA!!!!! If only we had that in the game.
Another thing about the bomb loadout:
Wasn't it able to carry smaller bombs (like 4 250kg) or something else without having to carry that big 1000 or 1800 kg bomb. Whats the point in using a big bomb like that on just one gv? I would love to see a different loadout for that thing. That way i can use it more for anti-armor.
Banshee7
Those bombs weren't just used on tanks or other ground vehicles. Rudel used one to sink a Soviet cruiser.
While the Ju87 is a fun plane to fly and especially to fight in, I think a lot are putting too much into the G-1 or G-2 versions. Yes, they had a 37mm Flak 18 cannon that was only able to carry 6 to 12 rounds in each pod. These planes were only successful if they had air cover to protect them and it will be the same here in AH. If you don't have a friendly fighter nearby to keep the pests away, you're going to be dead way before you even get close to your target. I don't care how good you are, if you're caught by a fighter flown by even an average pilot who doesn't have their head up their arse, you're dead.
ack-ack
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why not add the curtis SB2C Helldiver ?2x20mm cannon...2x30.cal...1000lbs bombs internal or a torp...1000lbs total on wings...
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Wasn't there like a...
! /
! /
! /
!/____
painted on the left window, and maybe an opposite one on right side too? To check the horrizon when doing the bomb run.
PanzerIV, its not the same if only I hear it, I want my target and everyone in the area to hear it! :D
Hmm, considering that no bigwigs are posting... I think this plea is in vain! :cry
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IRL the Stukas often provided their own cover as the German fighters were too thinly stretched to provide any assistance. Of course the situation would be different in AH.
-C+
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Originally posted by rednex21
Wasn't it able to carry smaller bombs (like 4 250kg) or something else without having to carry that big 1000 or 1800 kg bomb. Whats the point in using a big bomb like that on just one gv? I would love to see a different loadout for that thing. That way i can use it more for anti-armor.
Banshee7
You're right about being stuck with at least the 1000Kg bomb but you compliment it with 2X250Kg (or is it 100?... I forget) or 4x50Kg, the former being a pretty nice attack loadout for heavy GV's, the latter being good for light GV work.
That's 3-5 kills per sortie without re-arming which is about as good as your going to get in any attack plane.
The only reason not to carry it would be to reduce weight for climb-out.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
You're right about being stuck with at least the 1000Kg bomb but you compliment it with 2X250Kg (or is it 100?... I forget) or 4x50Kg, the former being a pretty nice attack loadout for heavy GV's, the latter being good for light GV work.
That's 3-5 kills per sortie without re-arming which is about as good as your going to get in any attack plane.
The only reason not to carry it would be to reduce weight for climb-out.
yeah bald it's 1x 1000kg and 2x 250kg. and that's 3 gv kills unless you score a double with the 1000kg, but all in all the stuka is a pretty solid gv killer imo, i find that i aim better when strafe bombing gv'ss in a stuka than any other small> med time bomber, like the 25h I've been using lately
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Ya know a 250Kg or a 500Kg would be a nice addition to the ordinance lineup, as well as the option for no ordinance in the center rack. Why do we have to go with only the monster bombs? The 250Kg with 4 100Kg will give us the early Stuka loadout. How about adding these loadouts as well?
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Originally posted by Iron_Cross
The 250Kg with 4 100Kg will give us the early Stuka loadout.
Should rather read: 250KG & 4 50 kg.
There was no regular 100kg bomb in LW.
Later during the war, there were some captured italian 100kg bombs used (in very small numbers).
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Do we even need to mention the G meter?
A coin holder for parking fees might be used more, or a fancy cup-holder, some might prefer an ashtray or a cigar lighter... :(
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I say bring on the HE 129 ! That would be a great addition, various gun packages as well as bombs and be able to equip it with tha 75mm gun as well. :aok
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Wouldn't we all love these tiny guns? ;)