Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lyric1 on September 10, 2007, 02:19:50 AM
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http://vancell.pages.web.com/id25.html
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very interesting, thank you for posting.
one thing i find more interesting is on one page we have war planes, pictures of bombers dropping eggs onto enemy targets, pictures of war and its terrifying destruction. on the next page is a tribute to jesus and christianity. on the next page is a tribute to the twin towers and the tragedy of 9/11.
this seems to me slightly confusing. Is not dropping bombs on civillians in WW2 and flying an airliner into a civilain target essentialy the same thing? both are a method of waging war. and then to encapsulate the whole thing with dedications to christianity and jesus? it just seems like a contradiction of sorts. at the very least it shows a very wide and open minded attitude of the site creator. please dont get me wrong i enjoyed the site and the pictures, i just found this aspect interesting.
the best picture was of the hills of California covered in a heavanly array of beautifull flowers in bloom. shockingly beautifull.
anyhow, excuse my thoughts, and thanks again for sharing this the captured planes are fascinating.
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Wow I didn't even look at the other pages until now. It is a little strange to say the least.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
this seems to me slightly confusing. Is not dropping bombs on civillians in WW2 and flying an airliner into a civilain target essentialy the same thing? both are a method of waging war. and then to encapsulate the whole thing with dedications to christianity and jesus?
The site is said to be by a US WWII combat veteran who survived the war, and lost comrades during the war. He says specifically why he put those pages in the album.
"The religious content of this page and page 13 are for those who are troubled and seeking possible help from heaven. If these pages have been helpful to only "one" person; then all the work and effort put forth has been well spent.
I'm pretty certain... I speak for everyone who survived the war... regardless of duty... feels he/she made it because of divine intervention and help. We are forever thankful and offer our sincerest gratitude."
Whether or not he does speak for all who survived, his inclusion of such pages is certainly not a "dedication" to Christ for the destruction of WWII.
Furthermore, I didn't see anything in the album that said US B-26 raids were on civilian targets, in high contradiction to the stated policy of years of area night bomber raids by both Nazi Germany and Britain's Bomber Command.
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perhaps i didnt make myself too clear, i certainly wasnt implying that the religious dedication was to bombing. indeed, i was saying the opposite, that the images of war and the images of christ were odd to see coupled together. it interests me to see a personal archive containing these images together. regardless of the intended targets of the ww2 bombers, the only outcome was death and/or destruction of those on the ground, be they military or civillian by vocation.
thank you for the clarification Old Sport, i regret i did not read enough to find out who this person was, i simply regarded the images and had a mind to post my thoughts.
you raise very good points, and indeed have changed my perspective somewhat. please note though, i was not complaining or making an assault on the site creator, far from it, i was very interested in the images and found them cause for some deep thought, which you have bathed in a new light for me now, thank you.
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Some of those pics look photoshopped to me.
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Originally posted by skernsk
Some of those pics look photoshopped to me.
the jug definitely is!:aok
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Originally posted by skernsk
Some of those pics look photoshopped to me.
If not all of them.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
perhaps i didnt make myself too clear, i certainly wasnt implying that the religious dedication was to bombing. indeed, i was saying the opposite, that the images of war and the images of christ were odd to see coupled together.
It makes perfect sense Bat. Axis and Allies both bombed civilians and Christians (and about 99% of other religions) have killed civilians regularly. See, he covered all the good things :aok
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What alot of Germans would do with captured allied equipment (ie bombers) is take off and try to join formation with allied bomb groups. Only then would they attempt to shoot down bombers with their so called bomber. Of course it would look weird seeing a bomber trying to join formation 2 hours into flight time. They wouldnt always paint them in their german colors, sometimes leaving the US insignia on the Aircraft. As for the fighters only reason I can think of for painting them in German colors is so no other Germans would shoot down the planes. Mostly likely used for testing.
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I do not believe it is realistic in any way to compare the bombing we did in World War II to the attack on the World Trade Center.
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i can back up the story of the german captured p51s as i have heard them several times i believe 2-3 were captured and i have the profiles here http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/165/2/0
the story goes that these mustangs made forced landings in france in different occasions in 44 and were captured and sent to germany where they served with respective german units, or were used as "agressors" for training :aok
and i can believe those bomber pics as well as many had made forced landings in axis teritory :)
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Originally posted by TalonX
I do not believe it is realistic in any way to compare the bombing we did in World War II to the attack on the World Trade Center.
lol, i wonder if the japanese would agree
S!
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Can someone please Make that Spitty Skin leave out of course the nasty insignia on the tail and get it in the game please! I am willing to send money for it if it looks good and gets approved:aok
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I doubt it will be accepted at the odd chance someone will take it on swoop, because it didnt actually serve with the luftwaffe in combat it was an agressor a/c and was inspected for technology etc. I do not believe it was ever operational.
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Originally posted by skernsk
Some of those pics look photoshopped to me.
I agree most of the pictures look touched up, however I do remember that Disney would take gun camera footage & paint in the red meatballs on Japanese aircraft so they could be used for morale boosting causes on news reels at the pictures, as the film quality was so poor it was the only way you could make out it was a enemy plane. Maybe the Germans did similar things or the allies captured these pictures & did the same or they are just that photoshopped? Who knows.
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http://www.p-38online.com/phantom.html
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
very interesting, thank you for posting.
Is not dropping bombs on civillians in WW2 and flying an airliner into a civilain target essentialy the same thing?
no. Not even close. If you are serious, I'd be happy to discuss the differences.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
the jug definitely is!:aok
I don't think it's photoshoped, if you look at picture #4 you can see again the same p-47 with the German markings.
I saw other pics of captured allied planes in German markings, nothing extraordinary, it was used for evaluation purposes, the markings were necessary, no use to explain why.
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http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Rev1/501-600/Rev557_CED72114/rev557.htm http://capturedplanes.tripod.com/p-47.htm
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Originally posted by evenhaim
because it didnt actually serve with the luftwaffe in combat it was an agressor a/c and was inspected for technology etc. I do not believe it was ever operational.
That maybe true for this plane but read the bio on this guy I posted this in the skins page he shot down a captured p47 in the act of shooting down allied planes. http://www.stormbirds.com/hillis/tboltkill.htm
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I found an other interesting link concerning captured a/c, something a never new before: a captured F4U Corsair by the Luftwaffe !!
(http://aycu06.webshots.com/image/25485/2004107776667597550_th.jpg) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2004107776667597550)
http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/FAACapturedAircraftHomepage.html
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
very interesting, thank you for posting.
Is not dropping bombs on civillians in WW2 and flying an airliner into a civilain target essentialy the same thing? both are a method of waging war.
Sorry I have to go with Steve on this one... NOT EVEN CLOSE...
I think if we discuss this any further in this thread it will become completely hijacked... Maybe start a new thread asking this question although doing so today would most likely not be received very well nor be respectful for those 3000 that died on this day.
I will just say this though they both killed civilians yes but the similarity ends there.
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I also agree that the site master has very likely used photos that have been touched up to a degree. But just turning them into web deliverables automatically changes certain characteristics of a hardcopy photo anyway, and the originals would be 60+ years old. There may be a fauxtograph or too, but by and large they look reasonable to me.
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
regardless of the intended targets of the ww2 bombers, the only outcome was death and/or destruction of those on the ground, be they military or civillian by vocation.
Yes, I agree. The fellow at the site even wrote, "war is hell," and with many dozens of missions in B-26s over heavily guarded targets I'm sure he was not at all being cliche.
But if you have an inkling of the causes of WWII you might consider the possibility that as terrible as the destruction was, there was a reason that it was caused. You should read William Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich." One thing is sure, it certainly was not started by a 20 year old B-26 tail gunner. So if he wants to thank God for saving his life through the hell of war, then I don't see the confusion or contradiction.
If it is confusing then you might consider a courteous email to the site master, who would be 80+, describing who you are, and asking him for his thoughts about his experience in WWII and why he is religious. I imagine he would gladly share his thoughts to a courteous inquirer.
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well said sir!
S! old sport
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Did anyone click Page 12 on the bottom?
http://vancell.pages.web.com/id20.html (http://vancell.pages.web.com/id20.html)
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Gosh, Jesus is the best. HTC can you please remove the churches from the towns? I love playing the game, but I despise destroying churches.
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the churches have been taken over by heretics and blasphemers. they contain tortue chambers and devil worshipping, there are no christian civillians left in AH2. feel better?
an yeah fulmar i already said, that picture is my favorite.
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Originally posted by TwentyFo
Gosh, Jesus is the best. HTC can you please remove the churches from the towns? I love playing the game, but I despise destroying churches.
Rae you kidding? That is the only thing I ever bomb. Well, that and SHawks house which is right behind the church
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Oh my what has this thread become. lol
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
the churches have been taken over by heretics and blasphemers. they contain tortue chambers and devil worshipping, there are no christian civillians left in AH2. feel better?
an yeah fulmar i already said, that picture is my favorite.
:rofl:rofl :rofl
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Purchased a book Vix put me on to called Strangers in a strange land by Hans-Heri Stapfer. The book is about all the known allied captured planes in Axis hands & the history of each aircraft & pictures. All the pictures listed at the begining of the thread are legit no photoshop no touch ups.
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GREAT SITE
Thanks for posting!