Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SoulTakr on September 10, 2007, 09:58:57 AM
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Ok, this might be a couple of stupid questions, but I believe the only stupid question is the one not asked.
Batteries, is it better to put them in the freezer or keep them at room temp? If it is better to put them in freezer, should I wait until they are at room temp before putting them into devices?
Lately since the kids are getting older they started getting more and more hitech toys that require more batteries than the good old AAAX2. Now it's 6 AA's here, 8 AAA's there. So, have been buying in bulk to try and save a little bit of money here and there and would just like to know your views on keeping a battery as fresh as possible.
I'm sure the biggest challenge will be catching them when they are done playing with it to turn it off :)
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Putting batteries in the freezer or refrigerator doesn't necessarily prolong their life
Alkaline batteries stored at "room temperature" self discharge at a rate of less than two percent per year. So normally refrigerating or freezing them will only help maintain their charge by a tiny amount. Hardly worth the effort of chilling them. However, if alkaline batteries are stored at higher temperatures they will start to lose capacity much quicker. At 85 degrees F they only lose about 5% per year, but at 100 degrees they lose 25% per year. So if you live in a very hot climate or are storing your batteries in a very hot location, it may be worthwhile for you to store your alkaline batteries in a refrigerator instead.
NiMH and NiCd batteries self discharge at a MUCH faster rate than alkaline batteries. In fact, at "room temperature" (about 70 degrees F) NiMH and NiCD batteries will self discharge a few percent PER DAY. Storing them at lower temperatures will slow their self discharge rate dramatically. NiMH batteries stored at freezing will retain over 90% of their charge for full month. So it might make sense to store them in a freezer. If you do, it's best to bring them back to room temperature before using them. Even if you don't freeze your NiMH batteries after charging them, you should store them in a cool place to minimize their self discharge
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ty sir :aok
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If the kids are burning through the batteries so that you are not storing them for 6 months much less 2 or 3 years, fuhgedaboutit. They aren't lasting long enough to be a concern.
On the other hand you might want to look into rechargeable batteries for some of their uses.
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If it's yer wifey running thru batteries "hand over fist" then placing them in the freezer may prolong their usage....
There is nothing more frustrating that going thru a whole drawer of discarded batteries to find some that will do the trick.
Women only know two things about batteries... Good ones, Bad ones.
Just remember batteries must be removed from all of the toys first.
Or maybe not.
:aok
Mac
*Note* I hope you were not reading into this post the wrong way!
:huh
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Here are...Imo the best batteries on the market.....I'm into the R/C thing and these have outlasted any other batteries I have tryed!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/100-Energizer-Industrial-EN-91-AA-Akaline-Batteries-NEW_W0QQitemZ220148109191QQihZ012QQcategoryZ43445QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Originally posted by Kaw1000
Here are...Imo the best batteries on the market.....I'm into the R/C thing and these have outlasted any other batteries I have tryed!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/100-Energizer-Industrial-EN-91-AA-Akaline-Batteries-NEW_W0QQitemZ220148109191QQihZ012QQcategoryZ43445QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Will the owner of the stolen Radio Shack truck please notify Kaw1000 via AH BBS , 1 800 COP TIPS or 1 800 KAW 1000 ?
Thank you,
:D
Mac
You are sooooo Busted!!!!
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Originally posted by AWMac
If it's yer wifey running thru batteries "hand over fist" then placing them in the freezer may prolong their usage....
There is nothing more frustrating that going thru a whole drawer of discarded batteries to find some that will do the trick.
Women only know two things about batteries... Good ones, Bad ones.
Just remember batteries must be removed from all of the toys first.
Or maybe not.
:aok
Mac
*Note* I hope you were not reading into this post the wrong way!
:huh
LMAO, thanks fer makin my day!!! :)
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Originally posted by Kaw1000
Here are...Imo the best batteries on the market.....I'm into the R/C thing and these have outlasted any other batteries I have tryed!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/100-Energizer-Industrial-EN-91-AA-Akaline-Batteries-NEW_W0QQitemZ220148109191QQihZ012QQcategoryZ43445QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I jumped on this thread as soon as I could. As my part time job as I finish out my college career, I have worked at Batteries Plus for a number of years. As the first part of this thread has been answered I will tackle your post.
Industrial batteries are different. Yup, the packaging. They are the same battery as your retail version, just marketed and packaged different for commercial use. The difference between Rayovac, Energizer, and Duracell is so small its not even funny. The last 'mah' ratings we were provided with show approximately a 100-200 mah difference between all national brands. Duracell did have the highest capacity but at what cost? I highly recommend buying Rayovac for the cost per performance ratio compared to Energizer and Duracell is much better.
Now if you need batteries that absolutely need to last as long as they can w/o being changed, go with the Duracell Ultra's or their Industrial version if you will, the Duracell Procell.
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Oh, and for the love of God, don't solder your batteries together. I know some folks like to be 'oh I can rebuild my cordless drill pack for a fraction of the cost!' There's a thin plastic membrane under the positive terminal on rechargeable Nicd and Nimh cells. Solder can melt this cap not allowing your battery to vent properly or vent at all during a charge or discharge cycle. It's either going to make your batteries crap out after a week, or you might have a nice fire on your hands.
Spot weld only!
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I want whatever those Mars Rovers are using. Designed to survive 90 days, going on year 3!
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I had a PFC once, late at night in a M577, bored with nothing to do but visit Darwins Pool.
He hooked 30 9Volt batteries neck to neck... 30 of them. Grabbed a few strands of field wire and from one end to the other tried to touch both wire ends together.
Before I could yell "Dip Chit" I seen the most Beautiful Spark ever.
Dum Bass... kids.
I blame his Parents.
Mac
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I don't remember exactly where I read it, I think on my buddies new sony handycam battery...
it said to never keep the battery cold, in fact it said to keep it warm by keeping it in your pocket while carrying it around to use. it said to never let it get below 40 deg F IIRC.
now this is a $100 lithium battery for digital video cameras, and not ordinary alkaline batteries you buy like energizers.
I know also my MP3 player has it's own built in battery, and when the player gets cold it doesn't work from the battery, so there's another example of not letting them get cold.
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Refrigerating them won't hurt. Freezing might cause some damage.
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Originally posted by TalonX
Refrigerating them won't hurt. Freezing might cause some damage.
Depends on the toy and how fast you can get them reheated.
:D
Mac
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They don't produce optimal current when they are cold but they discharge faster the hotter they get. That's how automotive batteries are anyway. If they freeze it's possible the battery case will burst(or maybe not since it's a metal case). I'd say just keep them at room temperature.
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Ya know Mac, that brings a funny story of mine to mind.
Here I am standing in the rain in Iraq waiting on a couple gun trucks to arrive so I can go back to my Trailer and watch movies :)
They finally arrive about 45 minutes late, but hey, they arrived safe(they were from another FOB) They tell me "Bryan, my S%$# ain't working" (Obviously, otherwise you wouldn't of brought it to me) I asked if they could be a lil more specific as the system i worked on wasn't exactly maintenance friendly :) They said sure, everytime they tried to power up the system they would catch the batteries on fire. Pretty impressive scorch marks on the T.C.'s side. So anyways, i lift the seat off the latches and am privileged to see a rats nest of wires strewn back and forth. Now, keep in mind that a M1114/1151 has 2 12 volt batteries connected in series.
First things first, find my cables and disconnect them(or should it be disconnect the - ? we'll talk about that a lil bit later) There is no overhead cover and it has been raining straight for 3 days, there is nothing but mud and water all around us. So, high speed guy that I am I start talking through what I am doing with the Gunner( the NCO and driver went inside to get warm :) ) He's patient and asks all the right questions such as, "should you be standing in a puddle of water while doing this?" I replied"no prob, i do this all the time" So, as I start to disconnect the mangled power cable that should be powered by the VAA(sits behind the radio and has power in, power out for speakers, etc) It is spliced and diced between both batteries to get it's 24-32 VDC power. First thing I do is grab the neg and my right leg starts jumping, "whoa", i thought..."that's cool" :)
So, I grabbed it again and my leg started jumping more, and now i started to feel a burning sensation in my foot. Well, i looked down and my sneaker was doing tha Macarena!!!! "WTF!!!!!" I let go and that is when the pain started. Needless to say, I took a step back and realized that everything was reversed!!!!!!!!! Pos on the negative, you name it. " Dude, We need a mechanic over here that's a lil more smarter than me with electricity" I said to the gunner. He looked at me with that 1,000 yard stare and simply replied " how long you gonna be"? Now, I wasn't in the Army anymore but I think I replied like I was back in with the full force of a D.I. again :) I'm normally a laid back guy, but that was a lil too much considering the circumstances. (Later on we laughed it off) Anywho, the mechanic came over, safely disconnected the batteries and I went about doing my thing and we got them fully operational in a couple hours.
Note to self: Use overhead cover, and don't step in a fargin puddle when playing with electricity. :)
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Originally posted by JB73
it said to never keep the battery cold, in fact it said to keep it warm by keeping it in your pocket while carrying it around to use. it said to never let it get below 40 deg F IIRC.
now this is a $100 lithium battery for digital video cameras, and not ordinary alkaline batteries you buy like energizers.
I know also my MP3 player has it's own built in battery, and when the player gets cold it doesn't work from the battery, so there's another example of not letting them get cold.
All batteries perform worse when their temperature is lowered. At around 0F, alkaline batteries operate at around 65% their capacity as compared to ones at 70F. Certain chemistries perform better than others in cold temps, but their performance is still worse. Lithium AA's (Energizer) 'Iron Disulifide' can have a an operating range of -40F to 140F. Performance is worse at the -40F mark as compared to 70F.
Your friend's Sony battery, is Lithium Ion =! Lithium (as above, there are several types of lithium, both rechargeable and non). Operating temperatures of these batteries is fairly small, keep it above 40F and below 100F. Your mp3 player battery is lithium ion, possibly lithium polymer, same rule applies as the Sony camera battery. Your MP3 player also probably doesn't like to work well in cold because the LCD screens do not respond extreme temperatures very well.
Keeping the battery in your pocket, if its cold out will keep it warmer.
And as a side note, car batteries actually produce more power at higher temperatures, above 110F; however, the cycle duration (overall life of the battery) is cut drastically. Higher you go, the fewer cycles. The reverse does not apply, the colder you go(say 32F), you will not gain more cylces.
And when you car battery freezes, well this happens when the battery is dead. When a car battery loses its charge (say dead) its sulfiric acid because more water concentrated. If its below freezing out and you have a dead car battery, your battery will freeze and kill the battery. When a battery is fully charged the acid is in a pure sulfiric state. It takes approximately -70F to freeze a fully charge battery.
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Originally posted by SoulTakr
Lately since the kids are getting older they started getting more and more hitech toys that require more batteries than the good old AAAX2. Now it's 6 AA's here, 8 AAA's there. So, have been buying in bulk to try and save a little bit of money here and there and would just like to know your views on keeping a battery as fresh as possible.
Shelf life of alkaline batteries is roughly 5 years. And at the 5 year point, they're not dead, they are still at 85% of their original capacity. Lithium batteries are even better, anywhere from 10-15 years shelf life. At 10 years, still at 95%.
I can also give you a whole thing on rechargeable batteries, good and bad points with them. I'll teach you anything you want to know, and if I don't know I have a wealth of resources (and really good discounts :) )
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Originally posted by AWMac
Dum Bass... kids.
Mac
you got something against my kind?:mad:
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Originally posted by AWMac
Depends on the toy and how fast you can get them reheated.
:D
Mac
Im starting to wonder who has BOB.
You or your wife LOL
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ebay is loaded with cheap rechargeable batteries and quick chargers.
i use assia AA batts @ 2900 mah ( used for camera flashes, so lots of charge cycles ) they are about a year old and still going strong.
saved a ton.
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SoulTakr.
Frikken a Classic!!! Ohh man I laffed. If you've never been there you'd never know how funny that is.
Christ we just got a new XO into our Squadron, 1/2 ACR, FRG before the Wall came down and it's the first SigO I have... Hell I was playin Sigo for 8 frikken Months tho the worst SQDN CO you could ever imagine... LTC Robert "Darth" Young...
Mike "Mighty" Trahan was the new XO, Tony Pesnell was my SigO... all new. I was there for years... did under the hood work on radios to keep everyone talking. Not authorized chit, but if they talked, I walked. You know.
Tank Table 10 on Graf '88.. My right hand Commo puke and I were grabbin shut eye and Pesnell and Trahan arrived. Priviously we pulled a RT524 from a burned out M113, an ash can. Smelt like smoke, melted, ugly... trading material.
Trahan the new XO shows up and claims he needs a squech adjustment on his radios... Like a Tank Officer knows watermelon about radios....
Sooo we take in his radio...and say F this simple chit... we bring out the burnt, melted, smoke smellin radio and inbetween my new SigO and new XO I sat this radio down and said "Sir I think we have a prob with yer frikken radio.." It falls and the face plate falls open... smells like chit...My SigO jaws drops and the XO is looking down...
SILENCE....
The XO bursts into laffter, holds his sides and falls to the ground...crying tears, laffing...screaming "ohhhh Ohhhh Dammmm That was great!!! That F***'d me up!!! Ohhhh Dammmm... Ohhhh...Tony where did you get these guys?"
We never had a prob from the XO after that... He loved us Commo Pukes.
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Graf, there was a place i'll never forget. Tried going up the tower to see if Elvis's name was up there, but the door was locked. Was there off and on last year supporting 2-1ID. Then went to Iraq the last time with them, Hopefully they are Home by now.
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Originally posted by SoulTakr
Graf, there was a place i'll never forget. Tried going up the tower to see if Elvis's name was up there, but the door was locked. Was there off and on last year supporting 2-1ID. Then went to Iraq the last time with them, Hopefully they are Home by now.
Was in a old wooden chithouse Tank Table 6 I think... and on the inside it said....
"Last Graf 1938, A. Hitler"
Worth a chithouse laff.
:aok
Mac
I was stationed in Bindlach, FRG. Time off was hard to get but me and a few othe Senior NCO's would go to Graf and Vilseck to Trout fish. Vilseck had some mean Pike too.
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Funny how this went from Batteries to fishing to a chithouse in Germany...
Around the World in 80 posts AH BBS!!!
:huh
Mac
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Originally posted by Fulmar
I can also give you a whole thing on rechargeable batteries, good and bad points with them. I'll teach you anything you want to know, and if I don't know I have a wealth of resources (and really good discounts :) )
I'd like to hear your take on these. I've got a 1 year old daughter, tons of toys, and just invested in a cheap Radio Shack rechargable system. Bought a mix of AA's, D's and C's.
Hope it was worth it! :)
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Will the owner of the stolen Radio Shack truck please notify Kaw1000 via AH BBS , 1 800 COP TIPS or 1 800 KAW 1000 ?
Thank you,
Mac
You are sooooo Busted!!!!
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I was first there when I was but a young lad. Father was stationed with 9th Engineer Brigade. I think 85-88. Then, years later I get to go back to some of the same places that i used to go as a child, man...that was awesome. I'd have to say hands down the best place I ever went to was the Autotech museum. All I remember is coming from Schweinfurt to Frankfurt and it is outside a lil bit. Talk about WW2 History among other things, I have so many great pictures and I can't freakin find them! lol
On a side note, what is the deal w/ Ausfart? is that like the biggest frickin city in Germany or what? LMAO
As far as changin subject...who cares, got a lot of great info on batteries (TY folks), and now I guess we can just run with it. :)
Maybe I should try and change the Thread to FRAGO
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Originally posted by kamilyun
I'd like to hear your take on these. I've got a 1 year old daughter, tons of toys, and just invested in a cheap Radio Shack rechargable system. Bought a mix of AA's, D's and C's.
Hope it was worth it! :)
Regular Alkaline batteries are rated at 1.5 volts. When they're brand new the voltage is around 1.6. When they're getting dead, 1.4 and below. If you looked at a graph of an alkaline battery being discharged at a constant rate, it almost like a linear curve, but not quite.
Rechargeable NiMH (I'm not going to cover NiCd because you really don't find them anymore in the AA, C, D etc consumer form) are rated ar 1.2-1.25 volts. When they are full charged, they're generally above 1.4 volts. When they're dead, they are about 1.0 volts. Now, NiMh discharge graph looks a little different.
(http://www.batteryspecialties.com/nimh2.gif)
The ,2C, 1C, 3C are just discharge rates, higher the number the more electricity being drawn from it. As you can see, the NiMh spends most of is life operating around 1.2 volts.
What's good about NiMh batteries:
+ You can recharge them anyways from 500-1000 times.
+ The batteries generally do not have to be drained all the way dead before you recharge them.**
+ The work excellent in high drain devices. Often 2-3 times longer than alkaline.
+
Drawbacks of NiMh
+ They lose their charge quickly. If you charge a set of batteries up, after a month of not being used, you'll need to recharge them again. Rayovac Hybrid batteries are a little better, they can hold the charge from 4-6 months, but at a cost of capacity. I believe they are 2100mah. Most new AA size rechargeable are 2500-2700. Some I've seen at 2900, I'm sketchy about those, a lot of companies like to 'fudge' their numbers a bit. At work we have a Cadex machine that can actually test the capacity of batteries and I've seen some off brands that test below what they claim to rate themselves at.
+ Do not operate well in low drain devices. In something say like a TV remote, Alkaline batteries can last for years, NiMh do no operate well in low drain devices. You'll be recharging those batteries every couple months in a TV remote.
+ They operate at a lower voltage. This is generally the biggest kicker. Unless the device is specifically designed to operate with rechargeable, it may seem that you're rechargeable are 'crappy and are dead quickly. Well think of it this way. Let's say the toy takes 4 AA batteries. AA alkaline batteries would produce 6.0+ volts. The device will work well. 4 NiMh when fully charge may be 5.5 volts or so when fully charge. May work okay for 10 minutes, but as the graph above shows they operate at 1.2volts most of the time. So thats really 4.8 volts. The device may act if its dead or dying all the time, thus a lot of people try and recharge their batteries again after 10 minutes and complain a lot. (I hear this a lot from customers)
So quick recap, NiMh work great in devices that chew through batteries like handheld games, cameras, etc. In a simple light up toy? Use an alkaline. Remember, the device really has to be designed to use Rechargeable batteries to operate fairly well. You may have to do try and error to see how it operates as users manuals (other than high tech toys) will not say a blip about it.
If the device is NOT designed for Rechargeables, the best of the best you can try is Energizer Lithium batteries. But they're $10-12 a four pack. And honestly not worth it in standard toys. If you have a digital camera and use it 3 times a year, dont buy rechargeables, buy lithiums please.
Now the difference between brands is so small these days, stick with whats on sale. Duracell is usually the most expensive. You can find great steals on Rayovac. The big 3 companies still produce their batteries in the USA. Other brands like Panasonic or something else, do not.
Good rule of thumb for pricing a good deal on batteries. AA steals are about 20 - 30 cents a battery. Divide the # of batteries in a pack by the price. What I can get with my discount is about 13-14 cents a battery.
And a last note, Heavy Duty batteries are not Heavy Duty. They are an older chemistry and last 1/3 as long as alkaline. So if you're in the checkout and see oh boy 4 pack for 99 cents? If they're Heavy Duties, do not buy them. Unless you plan on replacing the batteries in your TV remote.
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Thanks! :)
This post should be made a sticky...