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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: DweebFire on September 11, 2007, 06:33:15 PM

Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: DweebFire on September 11, 2007, 06:33:15 PM
Another one just for fun.

Which aircraft do YOU find most dangerous:
- during a random dogfight
- during a duel
- during no particular time
- during a cap at an adjacent field
- or the ever so popular 'not the plane but the pilot?'

Are they ackstars? Spits? Lalas? Hogs? Name 'em!

I personally find the guy who's flying the same aircraft as me the most difficult to fight, that is, if he's of equal or superior skill.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: whiteman on September 11, 2007, 06:45:23 PM
Hog or Niki or anyone higher than me
Title: Re: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Vulcan on September 11, 2007, 06:49:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DweebFire
- or the ever so popular 'not the plane but the pilot?'
 


Good example, fight hthide in his P-40.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: The Fugitive on September 11, 2007, 06:50:33 PM
I fear no plane as a single foe, I live for the 1 vs1, win or loose.  In groups I'd have to say spits, and LAs. Could be because thats when you see them most times.... as groups
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Hoarach on September 11, 2007, 07:04:57 PM
I personally hate 109s and f4us as they are a handful to fight vs a 38.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: SgtPappy on September 11, 2007, 07:15:35 PM
I'm starting to find Spitfires trouble for my F4U-1A again... especially the rarely good Mk.IX pilots.

Seems like I'm getting real rusty, but being a freeloader, I'm going to have to wait for my paycheck and see if I can budget in the MA heheh.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: evenhaim on September 11, 2007, 08:04:15 PM
i fear nothing 1 on 1, but in a furball id have to say a high hurri2c
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Flint on September 11, 2007, 08:06:40 PM
I fear spits - a great leveler, and in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing ... ouch.
Title: Fear...
Post by: TalonX on September 11, 2007, 08:10:14 PM
You should fear me in a Tempest with alt....  Not exactly fair, but you did imply some lopsided affair.

Title: Re: Fear...
Post by: evenhaim on September 11, 2007, 08:12:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TalonX
You should fear me in a Tempest with alt....  Not exactly fair, but you did imply some lopsided affair.



i dont and never will:cool:
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Rich46yo on September 11, 2007, 08:30:00 PM
From a bomber sticks view? The 262 in the hands of someone who knows what hes doing is murder. Even worse is the 163. Luckily tho you will only meet up with them attacking certain types of targets, usually next to airfields of high elevation.

                          An airplane like the P-38, the 110, and a Jabo like the Mossie are very dangerous if in the hands of a skilled stick. The 38s and Mossies Ive run into have always been flown by guys who understand how to take out bombers. If they get energy on you and come at you at bad angles they are murder. "Most" of the ones who fly 110s, I think, dont understand the aircraft. They just like seeing piles of guns on things.

                      The Mossies can soak up a ton of lead, as can the P-47s. The 109s can be a problem. I try not to let anything with cannon to get within 600 yrds. If they come up my 6 I will start shooting a cannon equipped fighter at 1000. Most of all if in B-26s cause the rear guns have 1,600 rnds, and, the mission in them is probably fairly short to begin with.

                  So I'd proabably rate the 109s with the 38s and 110s. The F4s with the P-51s and 47s and Spits.
Title: Re: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: dedalos on September 11, 2007, 08:30:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DweebFire
Another one just for fun.

Which aircraft do YOU find most dangerous:
- during a random dogfight
- during a duel
- during no particular time
- during a cap at an adjacent field
- or the ever so popular 'not the plane but the pilot?'

Are they ackstars? Spits? Lalas? Hogs? Name 'em!

I personally find the guy who's flying the same aircraft as me the most difficult to fight, that is, if he's of equal or superior skill.


The one I am in, but since I know where it is at all times, the answer is non.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: WMLute on September 11, 2007, 08:52:49 PM
Any Fast Plane / Turn-Burn Plane combo.

The fast plane keeps me from resetting the fight in case I lose position (can't extend), the turn-burn plane keeps me tied up and a sucker for the pick.

If we are talking about a single plane, none of them.  I fear pilots not planes.  A horrible La7 Pilot is much less a threat than an Ace in a P40.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: SgtPappy on September 11, 2007, 09:02:07 PM
Oh don't I love being in that situation. It's all the more fun when it's extreme.

Oh, say, a P-51 and a Zeke. It's just worse when you're in a Spitfire.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: B@tfinkV on September 11, 2007, 09:11:19 PM
Spitfire mkV for all catagories especialy if flown by WarKat.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: DoNKeY on September 11, 2007, 09:15:02 PM
I fear anything that can out climb me.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: kamilyun on September 11, 2007, 09:26:51 PM
If I see a couple of guys winging in P40s, I know there's going to be trouble...
Title: Re: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Hoffman on September 11, 2007, 09:35:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DweebFire
[B
Which aircraft do YOU find most dangerous:
- during a random dogfight
- during a duel
- during no particular time
- during a cap at an adjacent field
- or the ever so popular 'not the plane but the pilot?'
 [/B]


-Random Dogfight:  Mostly German Aircraft, as most of the more random dogfights I get in (1on1) are recovering from/going into a furball, and the German aircraft are mostly on the outer edge looking for prime targets.

-Anyone flying any plane and capable of understanding the concept of 'duel', not 'OMFG There he is DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE, WTF HOW'D HE DODGE MY BULLETS I WAS GOING RIGHT AT HIM CHEAT HAX WTF'

-Same deal as random.

-Zekes, with their ability to take off on 2 Ft. of runway and HO the guy lining up on him, they make capping a field tough.

-Same as during a duel.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: sonic23 on September 11, 2007, 09:40:05 PM
spixteen for all of the above
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: mongo36 on September 11, 2007, 10:10:12 PM
B17's
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: NoBaddy on September 11, 2007, 10:18:35 PM
It ain't the plane....it's the pilot.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: hubsonfire on September 11, 2007, 10:30:42 PM
It's the cartoon dork, not the machine.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Nimrod45 on September 11, 2007, 10:34:29 PM
It must be the LA-7 the way everybody whines.  I fly the LA-7 and don't care if I am a Dweeb because of it.

One on one, Hurricane with cannon, seems like every time I try to make a move on it they just turn around and point those guns at my face, and I dang sure aint goin Head On into a Hurri.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: lagger86 on September 11, 2007, 10:38:21 PM
All of them
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: FBplmmr on September 11, 2007, 10:40:01 PM
i hate seeing A^M or hurricane

especially with alt


because i cannot resist trying to turn with them while flyin my cat




109s occasionally ..more people dont know how to fly them than do.. dont even bring up spits and lallas
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Engine on September 12, 2007, 12:13:20 AM
I worry about the guy I'm approaching who's dogfighting on the deck (and killing) in a Boston.

You've gotta come in co-E with someone like that out of respect.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Mr No Name on September 12, 2007, 02:18:23 AM
MY 190A8
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Morpheus on September 12, 2007, 05:12:38 AM
A tempest with a stick that knows how to fly it. That is what I worried about the most in a furball.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Fariz on September 12, 2007, 05:52:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nimrod45
One on one, Hurricane with cannon, seems like every time I try to make a move on it they just turn around and point those guns at my face, and I dang sure aint goin Head On into a Hurri.


Do you realize it is a 3D game? In scenario "Hurricane against La7" -- Hurrie has little chances if you use ability of your plane to turn speed into alt.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Shifty on September 12, 2007, 07:07:49 AM
For me the lone 109 is the guy I worry about. Rarely do I find a dweeb prowling around alone in a 109. It's usually a guy like Eagler, or Platano, who know the plane like the back of their hand and will make you pay as soon as you make a mistake.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Laciner on September 12, 2007, 11:48:50 AM
"The Mossies can soak up a ton of lead, as can the P-47s."

Has the Mosquito been made tougher since 2.10? I made a point of attacking bombers with as many different aircraft a few tours ago, and I found that on the occasions when I used a Mosquito I had a pilot wound in seconds, something I had not experienced in other aircraft, in similar situations, attacking from similar angles. I have shot down bombers, and been shot down, but the only time I died instantly was in a Mosquito. Usually I have time to enjoy the view as I spin down to earth, but this was dive-dive-blood-tower. Perhaps I just met an ultra-elite gunner. Perhaps it was a one-off.

I'm not frightened of a bomber pilot who manoeuvres and knows what he's doing, but I do feel a certain respect. Too many of them fly straight and level and trust to the guns, which admittedly often works, but the ones who take the trouble to move about - even if it's just by turning away from me, forcing me to go around the outside of the track, or attack from the rear quarter - are wily like foxes.

As for the topic, when flying as a fighter I dislike the F4Us the most. And the F6Fs. If they are higher than me. They seem to attract good pilots who know what they're doing. Also, any formation of the same type of aircraft, because that implies teamwork, which is proprtionally harder to deal with than a mob of individual pilots doing their own things. Most aircraft have a weakness that can be exploited, or they are flown cautiously, or they only fly to one style, but the F4U seems to do lots of things decently well, especially if it has altitude or speed or both.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: WaRLoCkL on September 12, 2007, 11:54:17 AM
I fear yaks when they are  co alt or above.

next to that i fear nothing unless im highly outnumbered, it usually takes atleast 2 planes to bring me down most the time anyways
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Tiger on September 12, 2007, 11:58:46 AM
The most dangerous plane is the one 200d off my 6 with guns blazing

Doesn't matter if it's a LA-7, Spit XVI, P51, or if it's a Spit I, C202, or P40B
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Solar10 on September 12, 2007, 12:19:20 PM
Chanzz's Yak
Dark5tar's 109-K4
Balsy's P47
Any P38 I think is being flown by a noob and isn't.
B26's
Cobia38's A-20


Edit: Having said that I always have the best fights against Chanzz, Balzy and Cobia38 .  I don't live long enough against Dark5tar to have a good fight :)
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: a4944 on September 12, 2007, 12:26:37 PM
The Ki-84.  A very good plane typically flown by good sticks.  A dangerous fight for almost any plane.

Venom
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: BoilerDown on September 12, 2007, 01:09:32 PM
"Which aircraft do YOU find most dangerous?"

Whatever I'm sitting in.  lol
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Simaril on September 12, 2007, 01:34:53 PM
The big,brown, slow moving ones with leaves. Never beaten one, not even once.


The one I hate seeing most is probably the Ki84 with moderate alt.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: jhookt on September 12, 2007, 01:38:26 PM
spits are easy meat 19 outa 20.  but i think the plane I pay the most attention to is the spit9 that keeps his E
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: evenhaim on September 12, 2007, 01:41:37 PM
spit9s are not to dangerous only spit8s catch my attention
Title: Re: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Stang on September 12, 2007, 04:17:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DweebFire
Another one just for fun.

Which aircraft do YOU find most dangerous:
- during a random dogfight
- during a duel
- during no particular time
- during a cap at an adjacent field
- or the ever so popular 'not the plane but the pilot?'

Are they ackstars? Spits? Lalas? Hogs? Name 'em!

I personally find the guy who's flying the same aircraft as me the most difficult to fight, that is, if he's of equal or superior skill.
The one with a dangerous pilot behind the controls.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Rich46yo on September 12, 2007, 04:21:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Laciner
"The Mossies can soak up a ton of lead, as can the P-47s."

Has the Mosquito been made tougher since 2.10? I made a point of attacking bombers with as many different aircraft a few tours ago, and I found that on the occasions when I used a Mosquito I had a pilot wound in seconds, something I had not experienced in other aircraft, in similar situations, attacking from similar angles. I have shot down bombers, and been shot down, but the only time I died instantly was in a Mosquito. Usually I have time to enjoy the view as I spin down to earth, but this was dive-dive-blood-tower. Perhaps I just met an ultra-elite gunner. Perhaps it was a one-off.

I'm not frightened of a bomber pilot who manoeuvres and knows what he's doing, but I do feel a certain respect. Too many of them fly straight and level and trust to the guns, which admittedly often works, but the ones who take the trouble to move about - even if it's just by turning away from me, forcing me to go around the outside of the track, or attack from the rear quarter - are wily like foxes.

As for the topic, when flying as a fighter I dislike the F4Us the most. And the F6Fs. If they are higher than me. They seem to attract good pilots who know what they're doing. Also, any formation of the same type of aircraft, because that implies teamwork, which is proprtionally harder to deal with than a mob of individual pilots doing their own things. Most aircraft have a weakness that can be exploited, or they are flown cautiously, or they only fly to one style, but the F4U seems to do lots of things decently well, especially if it has altitude or speed or both.


                         Much depends on what I do when attacked. Normally someone coming up on my 6 I dont bother moving because they are dead by the time they reach 800 yrds. I most often play with speeds, especially with 17s cause they can slow down so quickly. On the other hand mostly when Im  seeing fighters is when Im OB and judge the danger of flying circles, as other fighters are coming, to be greater then just flying a straight line and getting away from enemy airfields/radar.

                     Back to the topic. I engage Mossies as far away as possible. To far to accurately aim for cockpit shots. Ive only met up with a few, flown by guys who know what they are doing, and they have been big trouble with the way they can both soak up lead and spit it out.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: ink on September 12, 2007, 05:17:30 PM
i know people have said it but ill say it again so the slow ones can get it

   its.....the.....pilot....



  although i do have one question,  why worry about anyone  in AH, its a game,  

have fun enjoy the fight no matter what the  out come.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: DweebFire on September 12, 2007, 06:48:52 PM
Yes, I know it's the pilot, which is why I included it as an option. remember, it's all for good fun.

But let's include a few more options:

- assuming s/he's the best you've seen in that plane, which plane do you fear most? (again, buffs count)

OR

- which user do you fear the most?
Title: Re: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Oldman731 on September 12, 2007, 07:04:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DweebFire
Which aircraft do YOU find most dangerous:

In the early war period, I'd have to say the 109F, as the arena is presently constituted.  In a REAL early war arena, it would be the A6M2.

Midwar, I worry about the La5, the 109F (still) and the various Spits.  The Corsairs can be ugly if flown competently, but are useless if their pilots aren't experienced.

Late war, non-perked, I guess the 109K is most frightening, with the Ki84 right next to it.  I have very little experience with La7s flown by good pilots...same for the Spit 16s.  I'm sure they're fine planes, but, if it were me, I'd rather be in the Frank or the 109.

- oldman
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: DREDIOCK on September 12, 2007, 08:25:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mongo36
B17's


Say B17's with 999000 at the controls and I'll agree with you LOL
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: scottydawg on September 12, 2007, 08:43:44 PM
I don't fear them but I really have a strong dislike for cherry picking Tempests.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: redman555 on September 12, 2007, 10:39:13 PM
P-47,best plane in game
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: sgt203 on September 12, 2007, 10:48:18 PM
I agree with some here I fear NO plane.

It is not the plane it is the pilot in that plane.

So having said that I fear 98% of the planes in the sky because most of them have better pilots in them than I am.:aok

Put the altra Uber plane in the hands of someone that knows nothing the plane is nothing. Put the worst plane in the hands of someone that knows how to fly it it becomes a very dangerous machine.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: toonces3 on September 13, 2007, 12:22:41 AM
I've been shot down by Tempests more than any other plane, I think, so I tend to give them a bit more room than other planes.

Non-perked, I probably fear the Spit 16 the most in general because I know it's a remarkable plane.  

High F4U's tend to get my attention as well, but usually I can do something better than a corsair, depending on what plane I'm in.

I don't really lose any sleep over La-7's, and frankly I don't see what all the fuss about them is.

109's tend to attract really good pilots, moreso than many other planes it seems.  I don't fear them, but I will be wary until the guy shows whether or not he's a hot stick.  The good ones kill me pretty often in 'em.

Player-wise, AKDG is my nemesis and has shot me down repeatedly.
Storch beat me consistently in AvA, as well as Dedalos, so I prefer not to meet them in the MA if I want to live.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: ink on September 13, 2007, 02:01:53 AM
okay fine for the sake of the thread  you force me to speak (type)

its the LA7



no wait its the hurri...
or ah maybe the 109k4
oh wait i know its the spitfires ,   but then again there was that one time i saw a 51 out turn my hurri so i guess its the 51 ya thats it....  but what about the   peee 38....

do you get the point?


no?   damm   i tried

someone else give it a go......
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: ink on September 13, 2007, 02:01:53 AM
okay fine for the sake of the thread  you force me to speak (type)

its the LA7



no wait its the hurri...
or ah maybe the 109k4
oh wait i know its the spitfires ,   but then again there was that one time i saw a 51 out turn my hurri so i guess its the 51 ya thats it....  but what about the   peee 38....

do you get the point?
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: FTDEEP on September 13, 2007, 05:16:14 PM
u find a plane u fear or have hard time beating, take one up.. fight with it and find its weakness. years ago i would see an la and just play ded. just take me u sob. couldnt beat'em. took one up found out what it takes to beat it. secret is knowing what your plane can do and the other plane can't.like fiting a jug...i'll nose up and roll over on a jugs 6 most every time. that plane is not great in the climb.got a zero on your 6? full throttle nose down.zeros lock up fast in a dive. you just learn the planes and fear none.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Husky01 on September 13, 2007, 05:33:10 PM
I fear no plane while in my P47. Through there is a slim chance that the enemy is better I do not fear him.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: toonces3 on September 13, 2007, 07:33:18 PM
Husky,
I was about to take issue with your statement about the P-47.

Then I got to thinking when I saw your ingame name as Bearkats.  

I may be mistaken, but I believe you shot me down in your jug while I was in a spit16, something I would normally have called impossible.

So, I stand corrected.  But, in general, when I see a jug NOT flown by you I start to shake and salivate at the thought of an easy kill.  LOL.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Nimrod45 on September 13, 2007, 07:40:39 PM
So Husky is Bearcats, He has got me a few times while I was defending a base in a LA-7.  I never ounce saw him, just got the message that I was shot down by Bearcats.  I assumed that I was being Boomed and Zoomed.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Husky01 on September 13, 2007, 08:18:39 PM
TY!

You were not BnZed Nem, I remember killing you in La7 quite well. Was no BnZ just need to work on that SA :)

Edit: Also Nim don't get confused there is a bearcat ingame as well. I am BearKats
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: DweebFire on September 13, 2007, 08:44:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ink
okay fine for the sake of the thread  you force me to speak (type)

its the LA7



no wait its the hurri...
or ah maybe the 109k4
oh wait i know its the spitfires ,   but then again there was that one time i saw a 51 out turn my hurri so i guess its the 51 ya thats it....  but what about the   peee 38....

do you get the point?


lol of course we get the point. But that's why i gave all those options. :aok
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: ScorpCH on September 14, 2007, 01:59:53 PM
I'd say the P38, when i started i use to think it was an easy kill, and in the hands of an unexperienced pilot, it is.  One night i think it was Twinboom i ran into and i realy saw what a 38 could do.  i was amazed, i stopped flying my pony for about 3 weeks and tried learning the p38.  i soon found that the nose mounted guns were not only very accurate, but very leathal.  i asked around a bit on the forums and got some advice, and tried the tactics i was taught.  I was forunate to have some 1v1 time with Murdr (   man, you are my hero ) and through his teaching i have become a very decent pilot in a 38, not great though.  whether its nose in the vertical roping an LA7, or going full flaps and manual trim to turn with a NIKI, i have found the 38 to be a very deadly and under appreciated A/C.  Sure, its the size of a barn door, but fly a 38 and you'd be amazed how many people realy have trouble hitting a broad side of a barn (or the door in this case).  Aircrafts i once feared, such as the NIKI, 109, Spits (all types), LA7, and the occasional P51, i now face without fear and with a great deal of confidence.  heck i eat LA7s for breakfast in my 38 now (silly Lgay dweebs need to learn not to try and out turn a 38 :D :p ).  For those of you that knock on the 38, take some time one day to get aquainted with it, learn its weaknesses and its strengths.  I promise you, you will find it to be one of the deadliest A/C in the game.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: C(Sea)Bass on September 14, 2007, 02:03:23 PM
its whatever I'm in. always is, cause I rule.:D
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: BlauK on September 14, 2007, 04:01:39 PM
P-38, they often include some nasty pilots.
Spixteen, unless it is clearly below.
La-7, unless it is clearly below.

This coming from a 109 pilot...
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Nimrod45 on September 14, 2007, 04:03:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Husky01
TY!

You were not BnZed Nem, I remember killing you in La7 quite well. Was no BnZ just need to work on that SA :)

Edit: Also Nim don't get confused there is a bearcat ingame as well. I am BearKats


Bearcats, I wasn't accusing just asking, BnZ is a valid and respectable tactic anyway.  Job well done, SA was tough that day we were out numbered about three to one.

It wasn't Bearcat and like you said you remember it well.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Spikes on September 14, 2007, 04:18:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by C(Sea)Bass
its whatever I'm in. always is, cause I rule.:D
:lol :lol
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Rich46yo on September 14, 2007, 04:19:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BlauK
P-38, they often include some nasty pilots.
Spixteen, unless it is clearly below.
La-7, unless it is clearly below.

This coming from a 109 pilot...


                      I agree about the P-38. The types that head out in them seem to all know their business. Ive ran into a few that are big trouble. There are little packs of 109 sticks that like to hunt together and are best avoided too. I once met a Mossie I stick I'd like to never meet again. I forgot his name but a Mossie with 5,000' on bombers is a nasty proposition. As is a 110 stick that knows how to aim.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: sveno on September 14, 2007, 05:38:58 PM
the 109, if flown right.

i like it at all altitudes and speeds, very direct control, the G14 with gondolas is lethal in the 6 of any enemy.

its a small plane and hard to hit. nice e-fighter, max V on dive is one of the few drawbacks.

this plane is lethal, to the enemy as to the own pilot :D :lol
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: SuBWaYCH on September 14, 2007, 11:04:43 PM
I think these 10 planes are the most lethal in the game if flown right (number order)

1.109 (Just a lethal aircraft and most pilots are very skilled with the aircraft a.k.a Platano/Skyrock)
2.P-38 (scares the crap outta me, especialy when it has alt)
3.F4U  (i think most lethal on the deck if flown right)
4.Ki-84 (I usualy just run away from these if i can)
5. Tyhpoon/Tempest (only with alt)
6. Hurri2C (one plane you never wanna do a Ho with)
7.190 (no newbs fly this thing so i know im in for a fight when i find one)
8.P51 (great plane when in the right hands a.k.a freezman)
9.C.205 (another plane when in good hands can dominate)
10. P47 (i know a skilled pilot is in this when i find it a.k.a bearkats)




Sidenote: I never wanna run into 999000 in a 17
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: SgtPappy on September 15, 2007, 12:16:13 AM
Try running into FX1 or Sonic in their Spits and see what happens :D  Tough guys indeed. Rare to find good Spitfire pilots.. especially ones like them.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: toonces3 on September 15, 2007, 02:23:25 AM
Despite what everyone has said, in general, I get all tingly when I see a P-38.  That and a jug are two planes I will never hesitate to engage because they have so many weaknesses to exploit.

109's always give me pause.  Alot of good sticks gravitate to the 109 it seems.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Rich46yo on September 15, 2007, 06:09:08 AM
I get a little pucker going when I see that dar bar light up, and Im deep in Knights territory, hitting a strat near a highly elevated airfield. I know if Lusche is on-line and thats he probably jumping into one of his Teutonic rocketships.

                       But...how else are you going to grow if you dont fly against hard targets defended by experienced sticks?
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Widewing on September 15, 2007, 12:16:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SuBWaYCH
I think these 10 planes are the most lethal in the game if flown right (


Let's break down this list and discuss strengths and weaknesses, talk about some basic tactics to defeat each of these.

Just remember that the number one skill every pilot should strive to master is E management. This can never be overemphasized: The pilot who better manages his E is the pilot likely to win most engagements. In any engagement where you start out with an E disadvantage, your primary goal (beyond avoiding being shot up), is to equalize E states. Within the MA, speed is, indeed, life. If you are not flying an especially fast fighter, speed can be banked in altitude. This doesn't mean you fly around at 20,000 feet. It means that you fly high enough to trade altitude for speed. Typically, somewhere between 5k and 15k, depending on what you are flying. Excessive altitude means that you cannot readily engage the enemy due to excessive speed when diving. You have to find that comfort zone between too high and dangerously low. Each aircraft has a zone that best suits it. Even the high altitude P-47s can be very effective below 5k, but they require excellent E management.

Another important aspect is aggression. Always attack, or at least fly with the purpose to gain the opportunity to attack. Don't get into the defensive mindset. The most certain way to survive is to kill the enemy.

The following applies to the MA environment, not a Co-E, Co-alt duel, which is a very controlled situation. In the MA, any situation can and will occur.

109s: Great climb, acceleration with good flaps. This group, while similar is also very diverse. The 109F is a terrific turn fighter, while at the other extreme, the 109K is a stellar E fighter. They all have similar weaknesses. Poor high-speed control response and they have to get very slow to use flaps effectively. When slow, especially with flaps out, 109s simply will not roll to the right. An attempt to roll right under those circumstances usually leaves the 109 hanging is space, completely helpless. When you fight them, maneuver with this in the back of your mind. 109s also have just about the worst outward vision. Stay in their blind spots when approaching. The better 109 pilots thrive in the vertical. Beating these guys usually means having an E advantage at the beginning and forcing them to waste E avoiding your attack. Pin them (keep them confined, not allowing them to increase E), deplete them (bleed down their E with sharp, fast, closely spaced attacks), and kill them (when slow, their aspect changes little while turning).

P-38: Good, if not great acceleration. Excellent climb, super stable at low speed. Not a great turner, despite what many say. Holds E very well, better than most. Absolutely the best handling fighter at the top of a climb. Your better P-38 pilots live in the vertical. In a Co-E fight, they are going to take the engagement straight up. Thus, if you are not flying something that also excels in the vertical, get some lateral separation and build your E. It's best to engage P-38s with an E advantage, and strive to maintain that advantage, which takes the vertical aspect away from them.

F4U: In the hands of someone who knows how to exploit its strengths, the F4U is one of the most dangerous fighters in the game, especially the F4U-4. Acceleration is not very impressive in any of the F4U-1 models, and neither is climb. They have the most effective flaps of any fighter, meaning that it's a great high-speed fighter and a stellar stall fighter. It's the in between where the F4U is vulnerable. Moreover, many pilots use too much flap for too long, killing their E and leaving them at the mercy of any fighters arriving at the scene. The F4U-1 types can be handled by forcing them to burn down their E state, while maintaining your own. Once the E is drained from any of the F4U-1s, they are very vulnerable to a pilot who then takes the fight vertically. IE: climbing turns and yo-yos.

Ki-84: This fighter has three very glaring weaknesses. It cannot dive beyond 450 mph without great risk of breaking up. It cannot deploy its excellent flaps above 175 mph. Pilots who fly with combat trim on will not be able to pull more than 4g at speeds over 300 mph. Smart Ki-84 drivers pull into the vertical to drag the speed of the fight as low as possible; to get below 175 mph where their flaps can be decisive. Avoid that trap and keep the fight fast, never letting your speed go below 250 mph (approximate corner speed for most fighters). Ki-84s are very good in a slow vertical fight. If you fight one in the vertical, do so with superior E.

The Tempest and Typhoon are dangerous due to their four Hispano cannon. Both are very fast. The Typhoon is only an average climber, but the Tempest climbs very well from low altitude and is extremely fast on the deck. Seeing them before they can get a guns solution is half of the equation. Typhoons are not good turners. If a Tiffie pilot gets too slow, he usually gets dead. on the other hand, the Tempest can turn well enough to be a problem for the less nimble fighters. In any case, to kill these planes you must have equal or greater E. Either that, or you must depend upon the pilot to squander his E, or not see you angling in for a deflection shot. Tempests can blow through a furball, hammering 3 or 4 fighters and escape easily. Thus, good SA goes a long way towards overcoming their advantage of speed (and usually altitude too). If you find yourself above a Tempest or Typhoon, you can often force them into maneuvering, eating away at their primary asset; speed. Once you get them whoa'd down, they are in trouble.

Hurricane Mk.IIC: Great guns, great turn. Hurricanes are easy to deal with if you have a respectable E advantage. You cannot be careless as those cannons will eat you alive. So, as I stated earlier, pin them, bleed them and kill them. You defeat them as you would a Zero, but being aware that mistakes can be fatal when facing four Hispanos.

190s: The Dora is extremely fast with a good rate of climb. Superior E retention across all models. Extremely lethal guns. Dives wells and rolls better than anything below 400 mph. Weaknesses are serious. Turns like a school bus. Accelerated stalls are easy to generate. Much like the Typhoon, to kill a 190 you have to catch it. When and if you do catch it, they have a limited bag of tricks. Most commonly, the pilot will attempt to scissor his way into forcing an overshoot. Don't scissor with them. Instead, go vertical. You'll both end up slow, but the 190 will have no prospect of regaining E, while you can trade altitude and retain the tactical advantage. Like the Typhoon, seeing the 190 in time to counter it is 50% of the equation.

P-51s: In some respects, the Mustang is one of the most dangerous fighters in the game. Nothing retains E better. Nothing handles better at high speed. Vision is outstanding. Great speed, average climb and acceleration. To defeat a P-51 you have to force or encourage its pilot to slow down. Once below corner speed, the Mustang loses most of its luster. It is among the worst at low-speed maneuvering. Flaps tend to generate drag out of proportion to the increase in lift. In other words, the slower the Mustang gets, the worse it performs. With only average acceleration, a slow P-51 has little prospect of getting outside of gun range quickly. Fighting the Mustang is about getting E states equalized. Once that occurs, the P-51 either bugs out or it dies.

C.205: I find the C.202 more of a threat. This fighter climbs well, and handles well at high speeds. It's guns are similar to that of the Dora in terms of lethality and ammo load. Where the 205 falls on its face is poor low-speed turn ability and handling. Acceleration isn't great either. Visibility is generally miserable to boot. It's not a particularly fast fighter. Thus, equalizing E is less of problem. I find them less than troublesome.

P-47: There is a considerable difference between the D-11 model and the opposite end of the scale in the P-47N. However, all P-47s are absolute monsters at high altitude. Down on the deck, they are still very dangerous due to their massive firepower and their excellent zoom climbing ability. A Jug with E is very dangerous. However, they accelerate slowly and steady state climb is generally average or less. Like the P-51, the Jug can get a notch of flaps out at 400 mph. This allows them to bleed speed very quickly, providing an instantaneous turn rate that can catch you flat-footed. With full flaps, any P-47 will out-turn a P-51 or any 190. In that respect, the P-47D-11 is capable of turning with many fighters, at least briefly. Because the P-47 is usually out of its element in the MA, most Jug drivers will arrive with some altitude. The smart ones will not waste their E. To beat the Jug, you have to get them low and get them slow. Once again, E management and the ability to get E equalized is very important. If you can get a Jug down on the deck and slow, your chances of winning go up greatly. If the P-47 won't come down and stay, you need to get lateral separation and climb. If you can get Co-alt and Co-E, the odds are more or less equal, unless you are both above 20k..  Up high, above 25k, a decent pilot in a P-47 can dominate just about any other fighter. Luckily, that is a rare event.

One last thing. The most dangerous fighter is that one flown by the most dangerous pilot. Don't place too much emphasis on the aircraft. A poor pilot in an excellent fighter will lose to an excellent pilot in a poor fighter 95% of the time. Far more important than what you fly are the skills you bring to a fight. Keep that in mind...

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: SteveBailey on September 15, 2007, 12:21:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Husky01
there is a slim chance that the enemy is better  



:rofl
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Husky01 on September 15, 2007, 12:35:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SteveBailey
:rofl


Steve, out of the what give or take 5000 players that fly in the MA regularly how many of those are good sticks? Id say around 50 of them that are truely flat out better then me (that fly currently not old retired guys). So the chance that the pilot on the other screen is better then me is slim to none.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: SteveBailey on September 15, 2007, 02:09:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Husky01
Steve, out of the what give or take 5000 players that fly in the MA regularly how many of those are good sticks? Id say around 50 of them that are truely flat out better then me (that fly currently not old retired guys). So the chance that the pilot on the other screen is better then me is slim to none.


Blowhards crack me up... don't stop.


:rofl
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: WMLute on September 15, 2007, 02:18:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SteveBailey
Blowhards crack me up... don't stop.


:rofl


actually...  he's not really that far off.

BearKats is quite good.  A bit timid, likes to B/Z a wee too much for my taste, and needs to work on ridin' the edge of a stall, BUT all in all a most excellent fighter.

Top 50 is prob. fairly "close" IMHO.

(Come to KOTH tonight and find out)
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: DweebFire on September 15, 2007, 03:56:22 PM
Awesome writeup, Widewing. Hopefully I'll be able to energy fight with enough efficiency one day to get my spitfire IX on that list.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Nimrod45 on September 15, 2007, 05:54:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WMLute
actually...  he's not really that far off.

BearKats is quite good.  A bit timid, likes to B/Z a wee too much for my taste, and needs to work on ridin' the edge of a stall, BUT all in all a most excellent fighter.

Top 50 is prob. fairly "close" IMHO.

(Come to KOTH tonight and find out)


My personal opinion is that you have to be a little timid and BnZ to get his kind of scores in a P-47.  You get down low in a furball and hang out for any kind of time you are a dead duck.  You gotta fight to its strengths, and that isn't a turning fight.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Husky01 on September 15, 2007, 06:02:03 PM
Kills per Death + 1     2.62    359
Kills per Sortie    2.13    139
Kills per Hour of Flight    14.51    20
Kills Hit Percentage    9.24    295
Kill Points    5604.43    1262

Time: 06:40

Doesnt take much to get my score lol
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: toonces3 on September 15, 2007, 11:55:40 PM
Great post Widewing (as usual).  One thing in particular you wrote is something I've really noticed the last few nights.

I've been working on the F4U series lately, say the last week or so, and in my opinion, I just have to get altitude prior to the fight to have a decent chance of survival.  As such, I've been climbing high, well over 10-12k before even thinking of engaging.

Thursday and Friday night, in particular, I found myself out of the fight or with a long commute and climbing to 15-20+.  While I was feeling pretty smug with my clear altitude advantage, I found that trying to engage someone 10k below me was an exercise in futility.  In order to have any sort of chance of actually shooting someone maneuvering 10k below I needed to scrub speed on the way down, or drop 5k, reset, and then drop the rest of the way down for the engagement pass.  It turns out that having alot of altitude is nice to stay safe, but for hunting bad guys, being super high isn't necessarily an engagement advantage worth the effort.  I'd bet I could get more meaningful results climbing to 12k and then accelerating to 300 indicated than spending all that time grabbing excessive alt.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: SuBWaYCH on September 16, 2007, 09:56:33 AM
Widewing, where in Terryville do you live? Im in Centereach, about 10-20 minute drive from you?


P.S. Do i get a cookie for getting the top 10 fighters right?? :D
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: DweebFire on September 16, 2007, 12:34:54 PM
I've always wanted to try the Spitfire XIV and see if that's any good, but it seems the F4U's flaps get the plane turning fast enough to destroy the Spitfire XIV. Though, theoretically, an energy fighting expert may be able to do well in it.

Also, I've read many of Widewing's posts talking about how the P-51's flaps are currently of near-uselessness due to the new drag model, though I haven't noticed since I think I came after the update. Anywho, are the P-51's flaps bugged, or are they really supposed to be that bad? I'm thinking it would be much more dangerous if its flaps were modeled like the Corsairs; as both planes have slotted flaps.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: DoNKeY on September 16, 2007, 02:06:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DweebFire
I've always wanted to try the Spitfire XIV and see if that's any good, but it seems the F4U's flaps get the plane turning fast enough to destroy the Spitfire XIV. Though, theoretically, an energy fighting expert may be able to do well in it.

Also, I've read many of Widewing's posts talking about how the P-51's flaps are currently of near-uselessness due to the new drag model, though I haven't noticed since I think I came after the update. Anywho, are the P-51's flaps bugged, or are they really supposed to be that bad? I'm thinking it would be much more dangerous if its flaps were modeled like the Corsairs; as both planes have slotted flaps.


Ohh, better flaps sounds really good!:D :D :D

But seriously, are they not what they are supposed to be?
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Widewing on September 16, 2007, 02:13:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SuBWaYCH
Widewing, where in Terryville do you live? Im in Centereach, about 10-20 minute drive from you?


I grew up in St. James. I currently live about 2 minutes from the Terryville firehouse. I'm sort of in between Boyle Road and Old Town Road. Since we are in the Middle Country School District (literally on the northeastern edge), we use the same public library as you do.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: DweebFire on September 16, 2007, 04:50:47 PM
Scratch that, I think they're plain flaps.
But still, they are bugged.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: Bosco123 on September 16, 2007, 04:58:37 PM
I know it is not much of a turner at all, but if you have carrier based planes or trying to put a cap on the feild, my choice is the 190A-8. High perks and big cannons can kill anything out of the sky as long as you know how to use it.
Title: Most dangerous aircraft
Post by: ink on September 16, 2007, 05:15:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Husky01
Steve, out of the what give or take 5000 players that fly in the MA regularly how many of those are good sticks? Id say around 50 of them that are truely flat out better then me (that fly currently not old retired guys). So the chance that the pilot on the other screen is better then me is slim to none.



so i know who my new prey is:t