Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 1K3 on September 12, 2007, 01:17:50 AM
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yep, NON NUCLEAR.
It is 4x as powerful as the "Mother Of All Bombs"
MOSCOW — The Russian military has successfully tested what it described as the world's most powerful non-nuclear air-delivered bomb, Russia's state television reported Tuesday, the latest show of the nation's military muscle amid chilly relations with the United States. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296441,00.html)
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Be interesting to see them try to deliver it against US forces. Or do they
intend to gather all their "terrorist" enemies in one spot before dropping it
on them? :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Rino
Be interesting to see them try to deliver it against US forces. Or do they
intend to gather all their "terrorist" enemies in one spot before dropping it
on them? :rolleyes:
mms://wms.leadingauthorities.com/windowsmedia/Berntsen_G384K_Stream.wmv (http://mms://wms.leadingauthorities.com/windowsmedia/Berntsen_G384K_Stream.wmv)
Early during the Afganistan war in 2001, we did exactly that using BLU-82s. Pretty horrifying.
Here's a little except: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/interviews/berntsen.html
Gary Berntsen, a 20-year veteran in the CIA interview:
What don't we know about that war?
First off, I think that [it was] very savage up in Mazar-e-Sharif. The BLU-82s that they used -- they dropped two of them up there to break the front lines. That was pretty savage. ...
What's a BLU-82?
BLU-82 is a daisy cutter, a 15,000-pound device. It's the largest bomb in our inventory shy of a nuclear weapon. ... It's got a long fuse on it so that when it hits the ground, it doesn't fill the crater, and the blast goes way out. It was initially constructed to cut landing zones in jungles. We use two of those up there on the front lines. Just shattered their will. It was pretty savage. ...Similarly, what people don't understand is down in Kandahar, that team that went in there ... literally landed on a leaf in a lily pond full of Taliban and Al Qaeda. These guys entered into an area, and there were thousands of people hunting them. ... You're talking about the band on the run. Holy cow, that was very dangerous. ...
How many of them do you figure you killed?
We didn't do a body count. Of course, we threw a BLU-82 in there as well, which just blows things to bits. You have to go in there with Q-Tips to get samples, literally; that's how devastating that thing is. It just vaporizes things that are close to the center. You're not going to find bodies.The U.S. military, CENTCOM [Central Command], was very generous with air power. ... Really, really pounded them.
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Originally posted by Rino
Be interesting to see them try to deliver it against US forces. Or do they
intend to gather all their "terrorist" enemies in one spot before dropping it
on them? :rolleyes:
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Be at:
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Can I go too RPM? Can I go too?
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Wolfala, thanks for the links to the Berntsen interview. Great stuff there.
I highly recommend that anyone with an interest in the war following 9/11 take a look.
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Originally posted by Rino
Be interesting to see them try to deliver it against US forces. Or do they
intend to gather all their "terrorist" enemies in one spot before dropping it
on them? :rolleyes:
Same can be said for the MOAB then :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Same can be said for the MOAB then :rolleyes:
Nilsen, there's actually some record of US success in doing exactly that. For instance, take a look at the links Wolfala posted. Also, given the standard US military doctrine of establishing air superiority first in combat operations (and our record of success in achieving that goal) we would also have no trouble delivering weapons of this nature onto a "conventional" battlefield. I don't know if the same can be said for Russia.
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Still same thing. If this latest bomb was american there would be a "hell yeah" and several :aok :aok , but as long as its russian its allofasudden talk of how it would be deliverd on US forces and how the russians could "gather all their terrorists in one spot"
;)
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i think the US is going toward smaller/smarter bombs for more bombing precision.
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The most interesting aspect is the claim of new explosive material that delivers four times the punch with less tonnage than the U.S. biggie.
Anything non-nuke with that much power will be especially appealing to terrorists too.
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Well thank cod it's not a cluster munition. That would be terrible!
:rolleyes:
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The thing that keeps bugging the **** out of me is how its referred to as a Vacuum bomb, or Fuel Air Bomb. You simply CANNOT have a fuel air bomb beyond the 2000 lb class range. There is no burster in existence that will distribute 9 tonnes of explosive material with an oxidizer (oxygen presumably) in a uniform manner, and then after all is said and done detonate the cloud. It is simply a physical impossibility.
What is more likely is a aluminum slurry mix with some oxidizer mixed in uniformly. In the BLU-82's case, its a GSX Slurry with Aluminum. It all depends on how stable you want the explosive to be to be used as a weapon.
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Still same thing. If this latest bomb was american there would be a "hell yeah" and several , but as long as its russian its allofasudden talk of how it would be deliverd on US forces and how the russians could "gather all their terrorists in one spot"
You have to admit ...he is correct in what he is saying ....
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Originally posted by john9001
i think the US is going toward smaller/smarter bombs for more bombing precision.
I had a friend who argued that this was a bad thing. This creates a distancing from the fear of even associating with bad people.
For example, you have a terrorist roaming the streets of baghdad. American forces spot him, drop a 10 pound smart munition bomb, which promptly takes off his head, and only his head. Not too scary.
But then you have the other method. The terrorist is hiding in a building. We drop a 5k pound bomb, and take out several city blocks. Several city blocks no longer exist for merely being near the guy.
The first situation allows terrorism to exist. The second one goes to the root of the support of terrorism, and will soon exterminate it.
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Gotta agree with Nilsen and expat...
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Laser
The first situation allows terrorism to exist. The second one goes to the root of the support of terrorism, and will soon exterminate it.
Nah ...disagree .. terriorism out here(middle east) is a family affair ...ok get that sorted now ...take it on board ..
You kill one , you are going to have 2 more in his footsteps ...it is considered the highest honour to die fighting us ........The palastinian mothers did not send thier kids out to throw stones at the israli soldiers to make sure the israli's got a bruise...it was to make sure the dead kids got picked up on our tv...more sympathy that way
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But then you have the other method. The terrorist is hiding in a building. We drop a 5k pound bomb, and take out several city blocks. Several city blocks no longer exist for merely being near the guy.
No, the second one is terrorism.
RTR
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And that is why YOU will never win a war.
Terrorism needs to be punished so heavily that the mere distance between you and the terrorist becomes dangerous. The terrorists are being paid thousands of dollars to kill themselves with promises of virgins in the afterlife. Sympathy and bagels will not win them over.
Pure violent retribution will show them the error of their ways. Or at least whipe their stock from the face of the earth.
Terrorism will become so unthinkable, when not only you will be punished for your actions, but your family, your friends, and even your dog, Fluffy.
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You are becoming same as them then Lasersailor.
Instead ask why does even terrorism exist in middle east?
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Originally posted by Maverick
Well thank cod it's not a cluster munition. That would be terrible!
:rolleyes:
you still dont get why cluster munitions are bad?
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What do you mean we "will never win a war"??
Do we need to come down there again?
RTR
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Originally posted by croduh
You are becoming same as them then Lasersailor.
Instead ask why does even terrorism exist in middle east?
Take a look at every war in the history of the world. Each time someone tried to approach it like a pansy wearing ballerina slippers, they lost. The same thing has happened to us since the Korean war. We haven't really won a war since WW2, the last time we waged Total War.
"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."
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Originally posted by croduh
Instead ask why does even terrorism exist in middle east?
Because instead of hitting them hard, without relent and without mercy, we engage in the practice of 'apologetic aggression'. We treat them like friends who just need to see the light of day, instead of an enemy that needs to be pounded into unconditional submission, at whatever cost to them that is required.
As for becoming like them, whatever... War is war. War is terror. Those who engage in it should become realistic to the notion that there is no soft and humane way to carry it out. As of now, we haven't matched their willingness to kill us yet.
Like Laser said, if we'd treated them like we did the Japanese (who were no less fanatical during WWII), our results may have been different.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
And that is why YOU will never win a war.
Terrorism needs to be punished so heavily that the mere distance between you and the terrorist becomes dangerous. The terrorists are being paid thousands of dollars to kill themselves with promises of virgins in the afterlife. Sympathy and bagels will not win them over.
Pure violent retribution will show them the error of their ways. Or at least whipe their stock from the face of the earth.
Terrorism will become so unthinkable, when not only you will be punished for your actions, but your family, your friends, and even your dog, Fluffy.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Oradour-sur-Glane-Hardware-1342.jpg)
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Originally posted by croduh
You are becoming same as them then Lasersailor.
Instead ask why does even terrorism exist in middle east?
You cannot make peace with people who have no desire for peace. The ONLY reason there was peace after World War II is because Germany and Japan were completely destroyed and the people, at least the vast majority of them, wanted peace. And even then there were plenty among them who had no desire for peace, even if the only alternative was death.
Terrorism exists because there are those who have no desire for peace, even if the only alternative is death.
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Not to sound like a broken record, but Hawkins, Sagan and co really nailed it. It's high time sapiens smelled the roses and got off this tiny speck of dirt. Unfortunately the majority of people want to complain about what's 'wrong with the world', but not commit the effort to fix it and take it all in stride in the mean time.
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This is beginning to be a matter of different opinions on terrorism so, anyway, to get back on the topic, is there a video of this, i'd like to see the boom;)
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Here you go Croduh... I hope this works.
from msnbc (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20730691/)
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A vacuum bomb? By Electrolux? Peddled door to door, or in vans festooned with balloons at low-rent street corners?
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Originally posted by Wolfala
The thing that keeps bugging the **** out of me is how its referred to as a Vacuum bomb, or Fuel Air Bomb. You simply CANNOT have a fuel air bomb beyond the 2000 lb class range. There is no burster in existence that will distribute 9 tonnes of explosive material with an oxidizer (oxygen presumably) in a uniform manner, and then after all is said and done detonate the cloud. It is simply a physical impossibility.
What is more likely is a aluminum slurry mix with some oxidizer mixed in uniformly. In the BLU-82's case, its a GSX Slurry with Aluminum. It all depends on how stable you want the explosive to be to be used as a weapon.
I'd like to say, Wolfala, that we still don't have good intel on the latest Soviet weapons and Tech advances. They've been first in some suprising areas (Like that hyper-cavitating rocket torpedo that was reportedly being tested on the Kursk.) I would not be suprised if they found a way to make a super-large FAE.
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I suppose it's also possible that they might have, shall we say, exaggerated a tiny bit. After all, I'm sure we can absolutely trust EVERYTHING released by the ministry of information in russia.
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Originally posted by Halo
A vacuum bomb? By Electrolux? Peddled door to door, or in vans festooned with balloons at low-rent street corners?
LOL,
That's funny!
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Originally posted by RTR
No, the second one is terrorism.
RTR
Canadian, eh? Any RCAF pilots in your family tree? How about RAF Bomber Command ones from across the pond?
It's fairly well reported that *just* about the time the British High Command was having second thoughts about and cancelling 1000-plane firebomb raids against German cities, high ranking Germans were having serious concerns about being completely unable to continue the war because of them.
I think it was Albert Speer who remarked (non-verbatim), "Had 5-6 more cities gone the way of Hamburg, we would have been finished."
It sure was nice of us to spare a few hundred thousand people to doom several million.
Yes, I know times are different now and we aren't exactly fighting a country. But I'll tell you one thing... Those terrorists over there put on an awful big show about being tough guys this and that, but start targeting their families and you'll find they're human too. I for one think it's much better to quite deliberately kill a few hundred thousand in a few raids than to kill a few million as collateral or accidental damage bit by bit over the years. YVMV.
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and this IS?
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The problems all stem from the fact that you touch yourself at night.
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Originally posted by Maverick
After all, I'm sure we can absolutely trust EVERYTHING released by the ministry of information in russia.
Boroda? :D
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Yep ol' baghdad boroda is one of the largest sources of russian "stuff" on the bbs.
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Kinda makes you wonder if the "news" he sees is just reruns of 70's "news" broadcasts or if all his info comes from folders and flyers marked "CCCP"
Very entertaining tho
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images of that Russian non-nuke bomb... The Dad of All Bombs:p
1 (http://english.pravda.ru/photo/report/bomb-2513/0/)
2 (http://english.pravda.ru/photo/report/bomb-2513/1/ )
3 (http://english.pravda.ru/img/idb/photo/4-1005.jpg)
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Originally posted by john9001
i think the US is going toward smaller/smarter bombs for more bombing precision.
Yeah. Compare Su-25 and A-10 concepts. A-10 is a dumb plane with expensive smart weapons, Su-25 is a smart plane with any weapons, dumb OR smart.
In Grozny 1995 they managed to place a FAB-250 into a sewage well, blowing up Chechen "government" bunker.
Now they are fitting Su-24 frontline bombers with a bombing control system that can put a dumb FAB in a bull's eye from several kilometers. Lipetsk Combat Application Center already trains the crews.
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the Su-25 is a target drone for F22 pilots.
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Originally posted by john9001
the Su-25 is a target drone for F22 pilots.
Sure, for both of them.
BTW, it took two AIM-9 hits to shoot down a single Su-25, and no one knows how many missiles were fired. Needless to say that a pilot survived.
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Cool. On top of the explosice power anther real advantage of this thing is that can be dropped from a full combat capable bomber and not a C130/C17 as the US heavies currently are.
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Hmmm, won't surprise me if further development of the neutron bomb resumes. Maybe Red Storm Rising will finally make it to the box office. ;)
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Originally posted by Boroda
Yeah. Compare Su-25 and A-10 concepts. A-10 is a dumb plane with expensive smart weapons, Su-25 is a smart plane with any weapons, dumb OR smart.
In Grozny 1995 they managed to place a FAB-250 into a sewage well, blowing up Chechen "government" bunker.
Now they are fitting Su-24 frontline bombers with a bombing control system that can put a dumb FAB in a bull's eye from several kilometers. Lipetsk Combat Application Center already trains the crews.
Bah, can't compare A-10 and the 25...A10 is just a low-tech plane wrapped around a VERY cool gun...also takes damage well
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Originally posted by bj229r
Bah, can't compare A-10 and the 25...A10 is just a low-tech plane wrapped around a VERY cool gun...also takes damage well
They are both from one class, "shturmovik", close ground support. Just two different approaches to one task.
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Originally posted by Boroda
They are both from one class, "shturmovik", close ground support. Just two different approaches to one task.
You are not correct at all. Yes, both planes are for CAS. But while A-10 is a flying multy-weapon platform, Su-25 is a cheap version to deliver free-fall munitions. We can compare only Su-25T and A-10. "T" version, with new TV-guidance system, came close to A-10. But still not available for some options due to lack of normal radar. But if to compare them in combat surviveability, here, Su-25 is on the first place, without any doubts.
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estel
u state that the su is no good cos of a lack of radar...please tell me where the radar is on the a10?as far as i know they both radarless
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Originally posted by expat
estel
u state that the su is no good cos of a lack of radar...please tell me where the radar is on the a10?as far as i know they both radarless
I believe he's referring to the lack of a FLIR capability for all weather attack (day/night/reduced visibility). This is not the same capability as having a Laser Rangefinder & Marked Target Seeker - which it does incorporate.
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"Anything non-nuke with that much power will be especially appealing to terrorists too."
It's a bit bulky....
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Originally posted by Wolfala
I believe he's referring to the lack of a FLIR capability for all weather attack (day/night/reduced visibility). This is not the same capability as having a Laser Rangefinder & Marked Target Seeker - which it does incorporate.
Exactly. Really, Su-25T have some kind of LLTV. But it's capabilities are not so greate as it could be. And it's made as an external block. I don't remember, is FLIR on A-10 incorporated or no.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I had a friend who argued that this was a bad thing. This creates a distancing from the fear of even associating with bad people.
For example, you have a terrorist roaming the streets of baghdad. American forces spot him, drop a 10 pound smart munition bomb, which promptly takes off his head, and only his head. Not too scary.
But then you have the other method. The terrorist is hiding in a building. We drop a 5k pound bomb, and take out several city blocks. Several city blocks no longer exist for merely being near the guy.
The first situation allows terrorism to exist. The second one goes to the root of the support of terrorism, and will soon exterminate it.
Not sure how your friends head works, but it seems to be in the ballpark of the Nazis of old as well as the terrorists of new.
Blasting down entire habitats of people as a selection vs just the naughty guy leaves you automatically with bloodstained hands and a lot of hatred towards you. Blood of women, infants and innocents alike.
There is a point being the nice guy, just not easy.
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Originally posted by Angus
There is a point being the nice guy, just not easy.
In a war?
Are you kidding?
You think the Allies had any mercy at all when they were bombing Berlin, or Tokyo? You think the Russians gave a **** about the Nazi's women and children after the Nazis did what they did?
It's kill or be killed. Either that or don't bother raising your stick in the first place.
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Originally posted by Neubob
In a war?
Are you kidding?
You think the Allies had any mercy at all when they were bombing Berlin, or Tokyo? You think the Russians gave a **** about the Nazi's women and children after the Nazis did what they did?
It's kill or be killed. Either that or don't bother raising your stick in the first place.
Who were the allies fighting? What were their losses while at it?
Nothing compareable to i.e. the fights the USA is doing today I'm afraid.
WW2 ended in a total war. Pancaking Berlin was one thing. Pancaking Dresden was one thing. Setting Hamburg as well as Tokyo ablaze was one thing.
Bear in mind that it was a return, since the Axis started the methods already in September 1939.
From the high command view on the W-allied side, looking into their information, the Nazis had to be stopped. Precision bombing had been applied, but with insufficint effects. The Nazis themselves had however demonstrated how area bombing could buckle a nation.
Had they mercy? Well, for the Germans as folks, not much. It was a "Me or You" situation.
As for the Russians, they were not a part of the Geneva convention, so from day one in the eastern front, the Germans treated the Russians as a butcher does his cattle. They got it in return, - well, the Geneva convention works both ways.
So, - raising sticks, or not, - or having one, - all makes a difference. In war, we do indeed have a demonstration of victors who behaved better than the conquered ones, which actually started the fight with absolute brutality.
That is history, and to honour the slain we should learn from it.
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These russians crack me up. They can spend money to get a flag to the bottom of the arctic ocean, but they can't rescue men trapped in a sub. Glad to see russia still has it's priorities in order.
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yeah, but the Russians invented everything, or was that the Germans, i keep forgetting.
:confused:
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Originally posted by Sixpence
These russians crack me up. They can spend money to get a flag to the bottom of the arctic ocean, but they can't rescue men trapped in a sub. Glad to see russia still has it's priorities in order.
I have to remind you that no submarine crews were ever rescued from below 70m. And Kursk crew was all killed instantly except the rear compartment, where they lasted for about 3 hours in cold water and 10atm air full of smoke... I think Superman was busy at that time, wasn't he?
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However you Russkies learned that afterwards. You did however decline the fastest help available. (Norway?)
Was it shyness, pride or arrogance, - or just not enough sense of realism?
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Originally posted by Angus
However you Russkies learned that afterwards. You did however decline the fastest help available. (Norway?)
Was it shyness, pride or arrogance, - or just not enough sense of realism?
How Norwegians could help? Do they have Viking Necromancing corps?
Back in 1988 it was silly to refuse from Norvegian assistance when Komsomolets sunk... But in case of Kursk - no one could help. It was quite obvious.
You can dig my posts from 7 years ago here, I tried to stay optimistic, but I didn't understand the scale of destruction, everyone thought that rear compartments were not flooded and didn't take any significant amount of smoke....
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Originally posted by Angus
Who were the allies fighting? What were their losses while at it?
Nothing compareable to i.e. the fights the USA is doing today I'm afraid.
WW2 ended in a total war. Pancaking Berlin was one thing. Pancaking Dresden was one thing. Setting Hamburg as well as Tokyo ablaze was one thing.
Bear in mind that it was a return, since the Axis started the methods already in September 1939.
From the high command view on the W-allied side, looking into their information, the Nazis had to be stopped. Precision bombing had been applied, but with insufficint effects. The Nazis themselves had however demonstrated how area bombing could buckle a nation.
Had they mercy? Well, for the Germans as folks, not much. It was a "Me or You" situation.
As for the Russians, they were not a part of the Geneva convention, so from day one in the eastern front, the Germans treated the Russians as a butcher does his cattle. They got it in return, - well, the Geneva convention works both ways.
So, - raising sticks, or not, - or having one, - all makes a difference. In war, we do indeed have a demonstration of victors who behaved better than the conquered ones, which actually started the fight with absolute brutality.
That is history, and to honour the slain we should learn from it.
I highlighted the part where you yourself have said that I am right.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Back in 1988 it was silly to refuse from Norvegian assistance when Komsomolets sunk... But in case of Kursk - no one could help. It was quite obvious.
So instead of accepting assistance you guys decided to give up on them? Even a slim chance is better than no chance.
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Originally posted by Tango
So instead of accepting assistance you guys decided to give up on them? Even a slim chance is better than no chance.
Life of a few dozens compared to 300 millions.
Noone knows if Norwegians could help Komsomolets's crew. I only said that in case of Kursk it was obvious that noone could survive, while in 1988 Norwegians probably could save a handfull of people more, but no one wanted to play with the enemy, I hope you understand what could happen to Soviet servicemen on NATO ships, and it wasn't up to Norwegians at all... "It's a WAR, brother!..."
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Origanally posted by Angus
Who were the allies fighting? What were their losses while at it?
Nothing compareable to i.e. the fights the USA is doing today I'm afraid.
WW2 ended in a total war. Pancaking Berlin was one thing. Pancaking Dresden was one thing. Setting Hamburg as well as Tokyo ablaze was one thing.
Bear in mind that it was a return, since the Axis started the methods already in September 1939.
From the high command view on the W-allied side, looking into their information, the Nazis had to be stopped. Precision bombing had been applied, but with insufficint effects. The Nazis themselves had however demonstrated how area bombing could buckle a nation.
Had they mercy? Well, for the Germans as folks, not much. It was a "Me or You" situation.
As for the Russians, they were not a part of the Geneva convention, so from day one in the eastern front, the Germans treated the Russians as a butcher does his cattle. They got it in return, - well, the Geneva convention works both ways.
So, - raising sticks, or not, - or having one, - all makes a difference. In war, we do indeed have a demonstration of victors who behaved better than the conquered ones, which actually started the fight with absolute brutality.
That is history, and to honour the slain we should learn from it.
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I highlighted the part where you yourself have said that I am right.
LS, The whole problem is, is that it is not a nation that is being fought, but a belief.
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And, - today's precicion bombing is quite something different than what it was in the 1940's.
Area bombing was applied since precision was not too well possible. Ironically, the defence, - Flak, - only made accurate bombing more difficult, - thereby increasing the chanches of a really big strike.
So, Laser, I say you are wrong, and that you mix up orqanges and apples.
There is very far between the possibilities of the 40's and today in the business of lobbing a bomb into a toilet bowl, and there is very much difference in fighting a whole nation rather than certain people with a certain belief hiding in a crowd.
Of course you might then want to support the way the Nazis used to suppress resistance people from killing their troops, - for each soldier you round up 20 people from the nearest bus or whatever and shoot them all...
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Originally posted by Boroda
Life of a few dozens compared to 300 millions.
So how much is a human life worth to you?
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Originally posted by Tango
So how much is a human life worth to you?
Obviously not worth enough to accept help and save
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Originally posted by Tango
So how much is a human life worth to you?
Calculating everything in dollars, aren't you?...
Labor of millions was put into this boat, into educating and training of the crew, making it unacceptable to fall into enemy hands.
I think it's pretty obvious. American authorities under such circumstances will probably behave worse.
BTW, do you understand what accident I am speaking about?
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having grown up in the 80's amidst the cold war, i still find it fascinating that i can pull up this forum and read boroda's thoughts on these matters with such ease.
night and day by my recollection.
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Originally posted by john9001
i think the US is going toward smaller/smarter bombs for more bombing precision.
Correct here John.... USAF is going with SDB's (Small Diameter Bombs). I work with these here at SJAFB in N.C.
The biggest thing now is collateral damage and I guess the government got sick of flattening an entire city block for one building.
SDB's (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/sdb.htm)
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Originally posted by JB88
having grown up in the 80's amidst the cold war, i still find it fascinating that i can pull up this forum and read boroda's thoughts on these matters with such ease.
night and day by my recollection.
Unfortunately nothing really changed since good old 80s, just the communication became easier.
It's hard to expect humanism from military.
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yes, but i do expect it from the humans who set militaries in motion.
:)
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Originally posted by JB88
yes, but i do expect it from the humans who set militaries in motion.
:)
Unfortunately, your expectations are never met by your own authorities.
OTOH we see a beautiful parade of Western military being over-humanistic towards themselves.
What happened in my city in October 1993 was enough for me concerning "fighting for democracy", and I sincerely hope we'll never see Russian soldiers surrendering like that British in Iranian waters, or Orion crew that landed at Hainan after a mid-air collision.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Calculating everything in dollars, aren't you?...
We don't calculate human lives in dollars. If help was offered its usually accepted.
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Originally posted by Tango
We don't calculate human lives in dollars. If help was offered its usually accepted.
Tell my insurance company that and they will laugh themselves silly.
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Originally posted by Wolfala
Tell my insurance company that and they will laugh themselves silly.
No ****. They would prefer you die in an accident. It's actually cheaper on them in the long run.
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Anyone remembers that Jack London's story about Smoke Bellew where they were hanging an Indian who asked "how much?"...
Googled it, it's "The Hanging of Cultus George".