Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Curval on September 12, 2007, 12:13:18 PM
-
I feel almost sick to my stomach.
I am about to pay $30,000 for two of my three kids school fees for the year.
The other one we pay monthly...but adds to about 10k.
That is $40,000 in total...for school fees.
I need a drink.
:huh :(
-
that is quite a bit of money curval. why so much?
-
Is this college? If so, that's relatively cheap.
-
IIRC his kids are very young
-
Wow, the trials and tribulations of the well to do.
-
Online School. :D .The public school you're leaving has to pay for everything :lol .
-
Originally posted by storch
that is quite a bit of money curval. why so much?
It's private school.
Unfortunately the public system here is terrible...I really really wish it wasn't.
Tiger...no, not college. It is for my oldest who is 8 and my middle child who is 6.
Please don't get me thinking about college...this is bad enough.
-
Uncle tony paid for the last 2 years at uni for me. This year it's uncle gordon:D
-
Curval
ounds to me like you need to folow the monty python example ....sell em to medical experiments , you might recoup some of your cash :)...
-
and its only gonna get worse.
College reduction bill (http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/votes/?votenum=326&chamber=S&congress=1101)
:(
-
Originally posted by expat
Curval
ounds to me like you need to folow the monty python example ....sell em to medical experiments , you might recoup some of your cash :)...
That's what the Catholics do....every sperm is sacred afterall.
Me? I'm Protestant...and fiercley proud of it.
:)
-
Originally posted by Curval
It's private school.
Unfortunately the public system here is terrible...I really really wish it wasn't.
Tiger...no, not college. It is for my oldest who is 8 and my middle child who is 6.
Please don't get me thinking about college...this is bad enough.
Be thankful, I would. You have children. You have a choice regarding their schooling. You can afford to pay for better schooling. Many are not so fortunate. I know that I could not hope to afford to pay $10K+ per child for private schools. I wish I could have. If you have them in GOOD private schools, it is money well spent.
-
Oh I'm thankful...I just fnd it astonishing that I have to pay THAT MUCH for two kids (8 and 6) to go to school...for a year.
I just showed the cheque to a couple who work here and who have just had their first baby (and are talking about a second now).
The look on the guy's face was priceless.
The school is excellent....it better be.
-
Originally posted by thrila
Uncle tony paid for the last 2 years at uni for me. This year it's uncle gordon:D
Uncle Sam paid for most of mine, but due to a couple of times butting heads with a Colonel, I'm having to pay it back.
-
Originally posted by Curval
Oh I'm thankful...I just fnd it astonishing that I have to pay THAT MUCH for two kids (8 and 6) to go to school...for a year.
I just showed the cheque to a couple who work here and who have just had their first baby (and are talking about a second now).
The look on the guy's face was priceless.
The school is excellent....it better be.
I bet it was. My best to you and your children.
-
Originally posted by jhookt
and its only gonna get worse.
College reduction bill (http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/votes/?votenum=326&chamber=S&congress=1101)
:(
We get burnt each and every time congress thinks it can insert price fixing into free enterprises.
I say we should just get rid of them.
-
Ouch curval! that is a lot... I am feeling a little of the pain since I am putting my grand daughter through catholic school... we have the worst public schools in the world in the US...
If you love your kids here you got to get em out of public school.
lazs
-
Originally posted by lazs2
If you love your kids here you got to get em out of public school.
lazs
Same here. Sad but true.
-
it's hard to beat the catholic school system for dollars spent to value received. they do a good job of educating kids.
-
Personally I think that one's real education begins until middle school.
Kindergarden is mostly social and motor skills
Elementary is mostly social and basic skills (mainly math, music, reading and writing)
Middle School though, is where their education 'gets serious'.
Why pay for private schools before middle school is something I do not understand. If your kids cant read,write,add,subtract and do basic 2-digit multiplication and division before they are 10 then something is clearly wrong with the parents and the school itself (but mainly the parents IMO. Sending a kid to school is not an excuse for not being involved in their education).
So... send them to public school and save that cash for their college I say ;)
-
your not doing too bad as far as cost. When I was in prep school my parents were paying 36,000 a year just for me.
-
Kindergarten and Elementary aren't educative? That's whack..
-
I understand completely Ripval. It's costing me $50,000 for my daughter's caviar fees at school alone. For some reason I feel compelled to show complete strangers on the street the cheque I wrote out to cover bill....then I point and laugh at them.
-
In most cases that I have seen college ends up being cheaper than private school. Mostly because there are 8 million scholarships available, but also small colleges are usually around 20k for tuition plus room and board. books are another story, I have a book that I need to buy next semster thats going to set me back 1100.
-
Originally posted by Thrawn
I understand completely Ripval. It's costing me $50,000 for my daughter's caviar fees at school alone. For some reason I feel compelled to show complete strangers on the street the cheque I wrote out to cover bill....then I point and laugh at them.
I guess you are just a weenie. US$15k per kid per year is tantamount to highway robbery. I'm glad he posted this.
you seem rather envious of the haves. is that because the people's republic of canada wants all to be have nots?
-
Originally posted by storch
Iyou seem rather envious of the haves. is that because the people's republic of canada wants all to be have nots?
Uh no. It's because he is stinking rich and I'm not. Nothing deeper than that.
-
Originally posted by Thrawn
Uh no. It's because he is stinking rich and I'm not. Nothing deeper than that.
Don't be silly, you too can pick up some fine pink shorts without being monied.
-
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Don't be silly, you too can pick up some fine pink shorts without being monied.
and a top of the line motor scooter.
-
don't forget a chain and lock though
-
all good points!
-
Ah the public school system isn't that bad Lasz. I go to one of the top districts in the country and one of the best public high schools in the state. At least I can read and write okay, that's all anyone needs.
-
Originally posted by Curval
I feel almost sick to my stomach.
I am about to pay $30,000 for two of my three kids school fees for the year.
The other one we pay monthly...but adds to about 10k.
That is $40,000 in total...for school fees.
I need a drink.
:huh :(
tell them you are an illegal there. They have to educate your kids for nothing.
At least that how it works here
-
No way on God's green earth am I sending the kids to public school here. We have a serious education crisis at the moment. Our pass rates are well below 50% and all we do is hire more people, who don't have a clue, into an entire system that has broken down. The ministers in charge of education have kids too...they send 'em to private schools.
It sucks. These fees really hurt, no matter how Ripvalesque that might appear.
I'd much rather spend the money on toys.
-
Do you not have the option to home school?
-
Originally posted by Curval
I feel almost sick to my stomach.
I am about to pay $30,000 for two of my three kids school fees for the year.
The other one we pay monthly...but adds to about 10k.
That is $40,000 in total...for school fees.
I need a drink.
:huh :(
Sorry, when I read this I honestly believe it's a form of chest beating.
"Look, I can afford to pay this ridiculous sum of money so my kids can get a good education". Of course, it is wrapped in the veil of self pity.....but the real message is how much money he has.
Sorry.
-
Just a quick question. What part of the country is it that the schools suck so much?
-
"school is for fools look at me!"
-funny line in mr.deeds
-
Originally posted by Tac
Personally I think that one's real education begins until middle school.
Kindergarden is mostly social and motor skills
Elementary is mostly social and basic skills (mainly math, music, reading and writing)
Middle School though, is where their education 'gets serious'.
Why pay for private schools before middle school is something I do not understand. If your kids cant read,write,add,subtract and do basic 2-digit multiplication and division before they are 10 then something is clearly wrong with the parents and the school itself (but mainly the parents IMO. Sending a kid to school is not an excuse for not being involved in their education).
So... send them to public school and save that cash for their college I say ;)
I completely disagree... What Curv's doing is sending his youngsters off to a hopefully excellent school during the most important years... The ones that form the foundation upon which all else is built.
Once a person reaches college age, it matters very little where they go to school. You have to work to educate yourself at that level. The only reason to send your kids to a high-priced college is the old saying, "You can't marry 'em if you can't meet 'em."
Well, that, and if they want to do something so advanced a regular college can doesn't offer it, anyway.
-
Originally posted by Wolfala
Just a quick question. What part of the country is it that the schools suck so much?
he's in bermuda so there isn't much country and all of socialism sucks
-
It is not just the education so far as academic... if you go to a public school 1st grade for instance and then to a catholic one as I have to do to pick up my grand daughter and another child for daycare...
You will see that the kids in public schools are being trained to be wild animals and mostly are at a two year old learning level... they pretty much cater to the worst kid in the class... even if that means the kid in question doesn't even speak english... at the catholic school everyone is intent on listening to the teacher and raising their hands and the blackboard is full of... well... useful stuff.
vouchers are the only way to save the school system in America. The teachers union and politicians have destroyed public schools to the point that they can never compete again.
lazs
-
Originally posted by TalonX
Sorry, when I read this I honestly believe it's a form of chest beating.
"Look, I can afford to pay this ridiculous sum of money so my kids can get a good education". Of course, it is wrapped in the veil of self pity.....but the real message is how much money he has.
Sorry.
Or he is just venting and you choose to crap on his thread for reasons of your own weakness. Why do you have to take it that way since it was obviously not intended that way?
-
Laz,
A very significant part of that situation is that in the private school the parents are motivated to see that their kids actually do something. Since it costs the parents something of actual value (money) they want to get the full value of it. They are also interested in their kids performance as that helps make the parents feel their money is well spent. Having parental interest in the kids education tells the kid that this is of importance to the both of them and they should not just blow it off.
It was said before that people value that which has actually cost them something to achieve. That which is merely given freely is valued for the effort it took to get it, nothing.
Having said that, while I value the concept that EVERY child in the US (I am talking citizens and LEGAL immigrants) deserves to be educated, I think providing the first 12 years for free has failed as a concept of education.
You can put a kid in a school but if the parents are not interested and the kid does not want to learn, they will not be educated.
-
Originally posted by Maverick
Having said that, while I value the concept that EVERY child in the US (I am talking citizens and LEGAL immigrants) deserves to be educated, I think providing the first 12 years for free has failed as a concept of education.
You can put a kid in a school but if the parents are not interested and the kid does not want to learn, they will not be educated.
Not really disagreeing with you, but I would add that I'd rather have kids be failing at free public school than sitting around at home because their parents had no money for private school.
Some public schools do actually do very well. They generally are in wealthier neighborhoods. Somewhat like you alluded to in the snipped portions of your post, the performance of kids at such schools has very little to do with the $300 TV/Clocks found in them.
-
The first thing I thought when I got to the US at high school level, was that the best education I could think of was K-12 in France/another EU country that's as strict and thorough, and then to be let loose in the comparatively infinite resources and potential of American universities and job market.
-
mav... that is why I think vouchers would work...
So many of us actually buy the line that public school is "free"... it is no such thing... it is $11,000 a year for each student here in kalifornia... it is not free by any means.
If parents had vouchers for say $5,000 they could afford private school if they shopped around or... they could add a little to the $5k and make it work...
vouchers would leave the crap public school zoo funded and if a parent didn't care or couldn't get his kid to perform or behave... he would have to put him back in the zoo...
In either case... every parent would be able to attach a real value other than "free" to what school really is.. they would open their eyes and see what it is really costing...
lazs
-
yup a quick glance at my real estate taxes confirms that is definitely not free to me.
-
It is a simple matter here of taking the education budget for a given year and divide that by the number of students. Last year the figure was closing on $19,000 per student.
Ridiculous.
I say schools here should be privatised in entirety. I cannot get anyone to explain to me why a top notch school costs me $15,000 a year and the government pathetic excuse for schools cost us taxpayers (yes we do pay tax here, just not income taxes) $19,000 per student.
I pay for both.
..and yes, I'm RANTING.
-
Originally posted by Curval
It is a simple matter here of taking the education budget for a given year and divide that by the number of students. Last year the figure was closing on $19,000 per student.
Ridiculous.
I say schools here should be privatised in entirety. I cannot get anyone to explain to me why a top notch school costs me $15,000 a year and the government pathetic excuse for schools cost us taxpayers (yes we do pay tax here, just not income taxes) $19,000 per student.
I pay for both.
..and yes, I'm RANTING.
as well you should. it's an outrage.
-
Laz, Storch. Kudos to you both for cherry picking a detail and turning it into something it was not posted as or implied. IIRC there is no tuition charged to a student or their family for their kids to enroll and attend public school, hence the term "free" education given "freely" to the student by the "public" through the government. Please note I never said there was no cost associated for it, same as I didn't say there was no cost for the military, the roads or internet.
:rolleyes:
Congratulations on totally missing the point.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
Ouch curval! that is a lot... I am feeling a little of the pain since I am putting my grand daughter through catholic school... we have the worst public schools in the world in the US...
Ever heard of "Magnet" schools in California? It's like sending your kids to Private school at no cost. Magnets are very competitive btw.
-
Originally posted by Curval
It is a simple matter here of taking the education budget for a given year and divide that by the number of students. Last year the figure was closing on $19,000 per student.
Ridiculous.
I say schools here should be privatised in entirety. I cannot get anyone to explain to me why a top notch school costs me $15,000 a year and the government pathetic excuse for schools cost us taxpayers (yes we do pay tax here, just not income taxes) $19,000 per student.
I pay for both.
..and yes, I'm RANTING.
Doesn’t Bermuda have one of the highest costs of living in the world?
It should cost more to pay people to work in such an expensive place; you can’t expect people to live in their cars.
As far as the discrepancy between public and private school costs.
1. The main cost of running a school is staff salaries. Generally private and Catholic school teachers make less than public school teachers. Heck, I even make less than some local public school bus drivers. Public school teachers usually have better benefits. Public schools often pay significantly higher salaries for higher education of their teachers.
2. Public schools are required to provide special education services. Special education lowers the student to teacher ratio, ups the paper work and red tape and is generally very expensive. SPED equipment such as ramps also boosts costs. My Catholic school has almost no SPED services. My old public school had a huge SPED staff.
3. Laws are written so that public schools often have to pay top dollar for services or supplies. Private and Catholic schools often have more opportunity to shop around.
4. Private and Catholic have much better luck receiving private donations and fundraising. Wealthy alumni often remember their private and Catholic schools but forget about their public schools; generally private and Catholic school alumni are more well-to-do. My school makes a bundle from bingo twice a week. A parent recently donated $30,000 worth of servers to our school; another parent volunteers as our network technician so we don’t have to pay someone for that job. These are just a few examples. Good luck finding these kinds of opportunities for public schools.
5. Bussing may or may not be an additional public school cost.
6. Laws are written so that public schools have to complete much more paper work and deal with more red tape; forced inefficiency.
Are you ready for the main reason why your school and my school are “top notch”?
It’s not the school. It’s not the teachers. It’s not the budget. It’s not even the red tape forced upon public schools.
It’s the demographics; it’s you. It’s easy to teach kids who have a big head start and who behave. It’s difficult to teach children who are way behind and don’t know how to behave.
You and the other parents at your school are more involved in your children’s lives and education (mostly). You and the other parents at your school typically have received a higher education and place a higher value on education. “Bad seeds” in Catholic and private schools are kicked out. Public schools don’t have that option.
Quite simply: your children’s schoolmates typically are better students from “better” families.
Is that worth the price?
If you have money left to eat it probably is.
-
P.S.
I also pay taxes toward my local public schools. It doesn’t bother me a bit.
They also happen to be great schools. The high school had 100% graduation rate with last year’s class (I believe). The vast majority of students go onto college. My public schools rival in performance of many private schools in every respect.
Why do they do so well?
I live in Mayberry.
-
Originally posted by eskimo2
Doesn’t Bermuda have one of the highest costs of living in the world?
It should cost more to pay people to work in such an expensive place; you can’t expect people to live in their cars.
Yes we do.
It does cost more to pay people. Alot more. It's a big part of why the cost of living is so high.
I don't expect people to live in their cars, but some unfortuntely do. I have to say that I've seen quite a few in your country though too. That is the ugly side of any capitalist country.
The sad thing is that we have the 2nd highest GDP per capita (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html) and yet we still have a terrible education system. It doesn't make sense. We have a bunch of people on the payroll and nothing to show for it.
-
I hear what you are saying though Eskimo, don't get me wrong. I just advocate a more privatised approach. I guess it is the accountant in me but it would appear that government could privatise the schools and pay the $15,000 per average child for them to attend. That is an annual savings of $4,000 PER STUDENT. The special needs and behaviour problem children should be able to be taken care of with that savings and some additional funding perhaps, but nowhere close to the 19,000 per student we see now.
There will always be a cost, but frankly I want a return on my investment.
I want a whole pile of smart kids.
-
Do you have any idea how expensive special education kids can be? My first year teaching first grade I had a student who had downs. He had a full time aid, assigned to help him only. He also received a big chunk of the first grade special education teacher’s time. He took more of my time than any other student as well. He lived two blocks from school; he had his own bus. Yep, a short bus would pick up only him and drive him two blocks. My third year I had a student with MD, same deal. These kids are paper work through the roof and they can be a huge distraction to the regular education. Each year I had more kids with less significant learning disabilities, receiving services, in my class than we have now in our entire school of 440 kids. Financially, these kids are 500# anchors in canoes and you are not allowed to drop them. Then there’s the severe behavior issue kids: Once again I had more severe behavior issue kids in my public school class than we have now in our entire school of 440 kids. Public schools have to accept these kids; private and Catholic schools do not.
By the beginning of first grade at my Catholic school, most kids can read. At my old public school, in the beginning of first grade most kids could not identify most letters; they didn’t have 20% of the literary skills of first graders at my school now. That has a huge impact on performance. You can’t compare Yugos and Fiats to Porsches and Mercedes.
You are looking at this like an accountant. A good accountant/financial advisor might advise an applesauce company to toss out their bad apples and make sure that they don’t buy any more. Public schools are required to mix in the bad apples. Private and Catholic schools pretty much get good apples only and can toss out bad ones at will. You can’t compare education to any business. Nothing personal, but accountant's advice is a big part of the problem that public schools are in.
If the government privatized the public schools, but also placed the same requirements on them that they do to public schools now, the results would be pretty similar. If they required all private and Catholic schools to accept all students through subsidies and deal with the same BS they throw at public schools, they would pretty much destroy any advantage that private and Catholic schools now enjoy.
-
eskimo... the reasons you give for catholic schools being better and cheaper may or may not be true. They may even be only partially true but...
The fact remains that public schools are running wild on cost and salary and producing terrible results. Only one in 900 teachers is ever fired in kalifornia once they pass probation. Certainly... there are more than that who are worthless or harmful.
All cities have transit in kalifornia we don't need the school too or... they need to contract out for it...
Special ed. It needs to be defined. some should not even be in school... any school. They should never drag down the others either. If they have rudimentary IQ then they should be taught rudimentary things They are never going to be office workers or accountants. Special ed may be a huge waste.
All I can tell you is that my grand daughter will not be a part of the horrible system of public schools with it's state mandated "programs"... I want a say in what my school offers and I want results and I don't want the people who have my kid for most of their waking lives pointing a finger at me when they fail at teaching. I don't want to go to a school and see all the kids running around and screaming like wild animals.
even if I lived in mayberry with good public schools... I might opt for the catholic school because it would still be better in that it would concentrate on what schools should do.... teach...
curval... it is the same here... we pay for public schools at 11 grand a year per student but if we want our kids to not be idiots we have to take em out and pay 5 grand a year for em to get a real education.
the collapse of the teachers union would be the best thing that could happen to education.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Curval
Yes we do.
It does cost more to pay people. Alot more. It's a big part of why the cost of living is so high.
I don't expect people to live in their cars, but some unfortuntely do. I have to say that I've seen quite a few in your country though too. That is the ugly side of any capitalist country.
The sad thing is that we have the 2nd highest GDP per capita (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html) and yet we still have a terrible education system. It doesn't make sense. We have a bunch of people on the payroll and nothing to show for it.
I don't understand then how your govt keep their jobs?
Our public system has its moments but is generally an excellent way to be educated. Here private schools are generally used for High School students, but catholic schools (which both charge like wounded bulls) are available for new school entrants but often don't continue into secondary school educations.
I've got no worries about sending my two sons into the public system
Tronsky
-
Originally posted by -tronski-
I don't understand then how your govt keep their jobs?
I don't understand how they keep their jobs either....well, actually that's not true, I do, but that is the subject for another thread which would require me to write pages and pages of rantings.
No time.
-
please start one curval.. I think it would be interesting.
lazs
-
Originally posted by lazs2
please start one curval.. I think it would be interesting.
lazs
It would? I thought you don't care what happens on an insignificant disney-like island?
:)
It might change your impression of me as a liberal Euro though...I think I'd probably sound a whole lot like you in it.
:O
-
Of course you would... most people are more libertarian in heart than in action.
go to a libertarian site and take their test... probly 90% of everyone is... guess what... a libertarian..
the rub comes in when it is time to practice... most people simply can't live and let live... most people simply want something for nothing or... want to tell others how to live or... simply feel that charity should be forced and is a "good idea".
protecting people from themselves is not just something your mom wants to do... there are plenty who get all matronly when it comes to stopping people from taking risks. There are those who don't like to see anyone be free. it points out how mundane and risk free their lives are.
lazs
-
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Or he is just venting and you choose to crap on his thread for reasons of your own weakness. Why do you have to take it that way since it was obviously not intended that way?
We clearly disagree on the intentions. Perhaps you choose to take it at face value owing to your weakness.
-
Originally posted by Curval
It is a simple matter here of taking the education budget for a given year and divide that by the number of students. Last year the figure was closing on $19,000 per student.
Ridiculous.
I say schools here should be privatised in entirety. I cannot get anyone to explain to me why a top notch school costs me $15,000 a year and the government pathetic excuse for schools cost us taxpayers (yes we do pay tax here, just not income taxes) $19,000 per student.
I pay for both.
..and yes, I'm RANTING.
Privatizing the schools would drastically lower the cost... Private corporations will always function more efficiently than government.
The issue is the need to ensure every child can get an education...and it is FREE to the kids, even if their parents don't pay a dime in real estate taxes.
Vouchers may do it. As would honest appraisals of the teachers weed out the losers that infect our public schools.
Difficult issue. Be happy you have the resources to have this problem. Many don't.
-
Originally posted by TalonX
We clearly disagree on the intentions. Perhaps you choose to take it at face value owing to your weakness.
He takes it at face value because we are friends. He was just down recently visiting the island with his family...great people.
-
Originally posted by TalonX
We clearly disagree on the intentions. Perhaps you choose to take it at face value owing to your weakness.
not at all a weak guy either. in fact you should wish to be like him. I don't mean in the physical sense either.
-
Originally posted by storch
not at all a weak guy either. in fact you should wish to be like him. I don't mean in the physical sense either.
Indeed.
-
So home schooling is not an option for you?
-
Originally posted by Maverick
So home schooling is not an option for you?
I've never even contemplated it to be honest.
What is it? Do you hire a teacher or something?
I don't have the time to do it and my wife speaks English as her second language.
-
You can hire tutors but the idea is that you are educating your kids at home. English is one aspect of the education process I suppose. I have no idea of the fluency your wife has.
There are home school web sites that you can look up and check them out. I was skeptical about it before but my Step Son and his wife are home schooling their kids. That exposure as well as to others in her family that did the same (including my Daughter in laws parents) have started to sway my opinion. One nice aspect of it is without distractions from the "rest of the class" the amount of time to cover the material is dramatically reduced.
The downside is the lower level of social interaction the kids have but that can be dealt with by having some group activities.