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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MiloMorai on September 13, 2007, 02:07:27 PM

Title: Russian blunder
Post by: MiloMorai on September 13, 2007, 02:07:27 PM
The Russians really messed up. :eek: :eek: :eek:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=481416&in_page_id=1811

Foreign spies in Russia have been handed an unexpected gift by officials in the town of Sarov who accidentally posted details of a new top secret submarine on the local administration's website.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Estel on September 13, 2007, 02:23:42 PM
Oh yea. This an old one news. Really that sub wasn't something new. It's an old project. The only new is that this one, was a test-sub for some engine replacement tests.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Chairboy on September 13, 2007, 02:47:57 PM
That little test involves, iirc, equipping a Kilo (possibly the stealthiest sub in the world) w/ the means to loiter underwater because it has a part-time nuclear generator.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Neubob on September 13, 2007, 03:29:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
That little test involves, iirc, equipping a Kilo (possibly the stealthiest sub in the world) w/ the means to loiter underwater because it has a part-time nuclear generator.


Watch out Chairboy, praising non-American hardware is askin' for trouble...
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Yeager on September 13, 2007, 03:58:11 PM
We've actually had Kilo sightings in Lake Washington.  No THAT's stealthy :)
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Chairboy on September 13, 2007, 04:31:46 PM
The Kilo is so stealthy, ironically, because it's a refinement of an old technology instead of a new tech.  Diesel subs are, I think, one of the big concerns of the US Navy because they can sit motionless on battery power for days.  Figure out which route a carrier group is taking because of a spy or something, and that could be problematic.

The more modern nuclear subs are generating some noise all the time because the reactor has to move water around and run turbines and stuff.  A modern nuke is quieter than an old diesel, and the achilles heel of the modern diesel is the limited battery life.

If there's a way to have a part-time nuclear generator...  that could be handy for managing noise profile.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Viking on September 13, 2007, 04:41:47 PM
Don't forget AIP systems.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Viking on September 13, 2007, 04:58:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkUu2NR6t7M

:D
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: john9001 on September 13, 2007, 04:58:14 PM
does this russian sub actually come back up once it goes under?
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Neubob on September 13, 2007, 05:06:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
does this russian sub actually come back up once it goes under?


Must have been working your neurons for days coming up with that one.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: john9001 on September 13, 2007, 05:10:18 PM
this post hasn't been here for days.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Neubob on September 13, 2007, 05:14:56 PM
I'm sure you had it handy just in case a Russian Submarine was mentioned.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Viking on September 13, 2007, 05:17:18 PM
More from our pathetically tiny (but surprisingly effective) navy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpiYjODbdEo
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Gunslinger on September 13, 2007, 05:37:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
I'm sure you had it handy just in case a Russian Submarine was mentioned.


Like their yearly air show ejection seat demonstrations LOL !
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Neubob on September 13, 2007, 08:01:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Like their yearly air show ejection seat demonstrations LOL !


Atta boy gunslinger... Just keep on mocking your rivals(that are in the midst of the biggest military buildup since the coldwar). That's the stuff that champions are made of!
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Gunslinger on September 13, 2007, 08:04:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
Atta boy gunslinger... Just keep on mocking your rivals(that are in the midst of the biggest military buildup since the coldwar). That's the stuff that champions are made of!


Build up for what?  a war?   a war with the US will help them how?  It will do nothing to their economy and their "war machine" to hurt one of the worlds biggest economys and start a fight with THE worlds most advanced military.  I'm not afraid!

Besides this time it's different.  It Just (and correct me if I'm wrong) RUSSIA......NOT the USSR.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Neubob on September 13, 2007, 08:11:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Build up for what?  a war?   a war with the US will help them how?  It will do nothing to their economy and their "war machine" to hurt one of the worlds biggest economys and start a fight with THE worlds most advanced military.  I'm not afraid!

Besides this time it's different.  It Just (and correct me if I'm wrong) RUSSIA......NOT the USSR.


Our economy IS the biggest. By a longshot. Our military IS the most powerful. By a longshot.

We didn't get that way through hubris. We didn't become the best by being overconfident, and that's not how we're going to stay there, either.

Their buildup is to build national pride. They're smart and they're dangerous, and anyone who treats their rival (for world influence or anything else) as a joke is damned to dethrownment.

If you don't believe me, read The Art of War. Being underestimated is a huge advantage.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: RAIDER14 on September 13, 2007, 08:25:56 PM
Where is boroda?:confused:
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Panzzer on September 13, 2007, 08:32:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by RAIDER14
Where is boroda?:confused:
Probably asleep - the first post of this thread was posted after 11pm their time.

[offtopic] Estel, where are you from? While visiting the MAKS 2007 I met Boroda and some of his friends, too bad you weren't there (?) [/offtopic]
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Gunslinger on September 13, 2007, 08:57:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
Our economy IS the biggest. By a longshot. Our military IS the most powerful. By a longshot.

We didn't get that way through hubris. We didn't become the best by being overconfident, and that's not how we're going to stay there, either.

Their buildup is to build national pride. They're smart and they're dangerous, and anyone who treats their rival (for world influence or anything else) as a joke is damned to dethrownment.

If you don't believe me, read The Art of War. Being underestimated is a huge advantage.


Yes but there is nothing to accomplish with a war.....there is nothing to sell to their people.  They are no longer in the dark ages as far as information goes.  Any yes we do have a large economy as far as the world is concerned.  Name a military that can project more might than the US!
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: AKIron on September 13, 2007, 09:13:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
If you don't believe me, read The Art of War. Being underestimated is a huge advantage.


And where did The Art of War get Sun Tzu? Last time I checked he was pushing up daisies. ;)
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Neubob on September 13, 2007, 09:23:20 PM
This isn't the darkages? The pitfalls of underestimating your enemy is obsolete? Are you kidding me? The Art of War was written not in the dark ages, but in the 5th century BC, and it is a universal observation of human nature.

No, nobody can project power like we can. What the Russian can do is field and launch hundreds of ICMBs, with thousands of warheads. What can we do to stop them? Next to nothing.

If you think this is not a reason to be on notice, at the very least, I am sorry , but you are a fool.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: AKIron on September 13, 2007, 09:28:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
What the Russian can do is field and launch hundreds of ICMBs, with thousands of warheads. What can we do to stop them? Next to nothing.


Au contraire, it is what we are doing to stop those ICBMs that is likely to blame for Russia's current show of military might.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Masherbrum on September 13, 2007, 09:46:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
does this russian sub actually come back up once it goes under?
:rofl
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Vudak on September 13, 2007, 10:04:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
This isn't the darkages? The pitfalls of underestimating your enemy is obsolete? Are you kidding me? The Art of War was written not in the dark ages, but in the 5th century BC, and it is a universal observation of human nature.



The impression I gathered from Gunslinger's "dark ages" post was that the Russian people now have access to the free press and as such could not be easily deceived into going gung ho into a war with us these days.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: texasmom on September 13, 2007, 10:22:55 PM
Calm down there y'all ~ just a little joshing around don't hurt none ~ don't mean we're all out to pick on the little fellas over there.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Gunslinger on September 13, 2007, 10:29:43 PM
I agree with you about the ICBMs but what is there to gain by MUTUAL ASSURED DESTRUCTION?    NOTHING!


There is nothing to gain but by building up russian national pride and by maybe increasing there barganing position at some meeting somwhere.

Bottom line Putin doesn't want to lose power (it seems)

He needs the support of the people for that.  He needs to flex a little bit of muscle and show off.  Instill a little pride and viola.

Besides a stronger Russian military means a stronger US military wich is good for my business.....and AGAIN we are only talking about RUSSIA....NOT the USSR....somone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Chairboy on September 13, 2007, 10:32:18 PM
You're right.  Russia no longer needs to spend the resources to keep the rest of the CCCP going.  They can concentrate on one thing.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Gunslinger on September 13, 2007, 10:38:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
You're right.  Russia no longer needs to spend the resources to keep the rest of the CCCP going.  They can concentrate on one thing.


But that's also a CUT in rescouces as well.  who knows it may balence out.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: john9001 on September 14, 2007, 08:10:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob

 What the Russian can do is field and launch hundreds of ICMBs, with thousands of warheads. What can we do to stop them? Next to nothing.
 


do they still have any missiles that will fly or have they turned into rust like their navy?
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Tiger on September 14, 2007, 08:31:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
But that's also a CUT in rescouces as well.  who knows it may balence out.


Actually, 'Russia' spent more resources maintaing the other states of the USSR than they returned in resources.  So with Russia being stand-alone now, they actually have more resources to devote their military since they are not trying to support the economies of their satellite states.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Boroda on September 14, 2007, 10:02:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Panzzer
Probably asleep - the first post of this thread was posted after 11pm their time.

[offtopic] Estel, where are you from? While visiting the MAKS 2007 I met Boroda and some of his friends, too bad you weren't there (?) [/offtopic]


I finally got rid of internet connection at home, so I get some sleep at night again :D

Estel is from Msk too, unfortunately he was on the vacation all August.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Phaser11 on September 14, 2007, 10:21:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
does this russian sub actually come back up once it goes under?


Not if they leave the screen door open! :rofl
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: MORAY37 on September 14, 2007, 10:56:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Yes but there is nothing to accomplish with a war.....there is nothing to sell to their people.  They are no longer in the dark ages as far as information goes.  Any yes we do have a large economy as far as the world is concerned.  Name a military that can project more might than the US!


Pre or Post Iraq?  Our power projection status is seriously in doubt.

I can name a country that holds approximately 60% of our national debt... thereby offhandedly owning our military.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: MORAY37 on September 14, 2007, 10:58:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
do they still have any missiles that will fly or have they turned into rust like their navy?


Considerably funny, since we have missiles as old as theirs or older, sitting in silos right now.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Tiger on September 14, 2007, 11:46:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda


Estel is from Msk too, unfortunately he was on the vacation all August.


Dude, it's September 14th
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Tiger on September 14, 2007, 11:49:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MORAY37


I can name a country that holds approximately 60% of our national debt... thereby offhandedly owning our military.


Whatever man.... this 'debt' you refer to is an illusion.  It's an instrument of the 'new world order'.  What are they gonna do to us?  Stop selling us quarter machine toys and children's toys with lead paint?






-The above post was meant ot be sarcastic in nature, failure to notice sarcasm is a bad side effect of Aces High.  If it continues, you may need to remove yourself from Ace High for a short duration.  If problem persists, you may want to contact a health professional.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: john9001 on September 14, 2007, 11:50:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MORAY37
Considerably funny, since we have missiles as old as theirs or older, sitting in silos right now.


it's called maintenance.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Rino on September 14, 2007, 11:56:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
Atta boy gunslinger... Just keep on mocking your rivals(that are in the midst of the biggest military buildup since the coldwar). That's the stuff that champions are made of!


     I still have to wonder why some of you are peeing your pants about Putin's
latest folly.  You must have really gone through the Pampers when the USSR
was around. :rolleyes:
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Holden McGroin on September 14, 2007, 12:19:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MORAY37
Pre or Post Iraq?  Our power projection status is seriously in doubt.

I can name a country that holds approximately 60% of our national debt... thereby offhandedly owning our military.


When you borrow a million, the bank owns you: When you borrow a billion, you own the bank.  -  Donald Trump
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Boroda on September 14, 2007, 12:48:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tiger
Dude, it's September 14th


So what? Believe me or not, but you didn't surprise me at all.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Boroda on September 14, 2007, 12:52:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rino
I still have to wonder why some of you are peeing your pants about Putin's
latest folly.  You must have really gone through the Pampers when the USSR
was around. :rolleyes:


AFAIK there's no people here born before 1917, so your sentence is generally true, except for quite a few guys who were born after 1991.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Phaser11 on September 14, 2007, 12:57:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
AFAIK there's no people here born before 1917, so your sentence is generally true, except for quite a few guys who were born after 1991.


Yea,
 With that make a baby day over there.....why can't we have one of those day here in the US? One day just to stay home and get busy with the spoucal unit. I'm an old cold war vet, but it sound like a bit of fun over there! Over here, the man is just doing me.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Boroda on September 14, 2007, 12:57:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
it's called maintenance.


I guess your sources about the state of affairs in Strategic Missile Corps are much more reliable then mine, you probably even saw something about it on TV, did ya? Or even some B-movies with Russian characters like General Gogol or Corporal Yebanovich?
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Boroda on September 14, 2007, 12:58:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Phaser11
Yea,
 With that make a baby day over there.....why can't we have one of those day here in the US? One day just to stay home and get busy with the spoucal unit. I'm an old cold war vet, but it sound like a bit of fun over there! Over here, the man is just doing me.


Baby day?! What's that? June 1st, Hippie day?
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: 1K3 on September 14, 2007, 01:09:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MORAY37
Considerably funny, since we have missiles as old as theirs or older, sitting in silos right now.



and their missles are not in fixed silos.  Most of them are highly mobile.



(http://www.spacetoday.org/images/Rockets/Plowshares/Russia/SS25/Start1rollout.jpg)
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Estel on September 14, 2007, 02:16:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Panzzer
Probably asleep - the first post of this thread was posted after 11pm their time.

[offtopic] Estel, where are you from? While visiting the MAKS 2007 I met Boroda and some of his friends, too bad you weren't there (?) [/offtopic]


I'm from Moscow. And that time I was 500 km away. In the wood. On the lake beach. Three weeks.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: C(Sea)Bass on September 14, 2007, 02:39:51 PM
If you don't think being under estimated is a huge advantage you have been living under a rock. Had the British not under estimated the Americans in the Revolution this land could be very different right now. A few years back the US under estimated a small place called VIETNAM. Even the Russains are guilty, were they not a little overly cocky going into Afganistan?

As far as the ICBM thing goes it seems as if both sides are dramatically less capable in the ICBM department. I could be wrong but it seems that way to me since I personally saw a NIKE missle base in my town become a skate park/football field.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: 68Wooley on September 14, 2007, 02:47:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Vudak
...the Russian people now have access to the free press and as such could not be easily deceived into going gung ho into a war...



Coouughh...WMD's...couougghhh




 :noid
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: FBBone on September 14, 2007, 03:26:46 PM
............................M y bad, I thought it said "Russian BLENDER".  Imagine my disappointment after running to get the vodka..................... :(
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Boroda on September 14, 2007, 05:50:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FBBone
............................My bad, I thought it said "Russian BLENDER".  Imagine my disappointment after running to get the vodka..................... :(


Mixing vodka with anything?! It simply can't be Russian.

The only truely Russian "cocktail" is White Silence: take 200ml of vodka, add 200ml of vodka, shake but not stir ;)
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Russian on September 16, 2007, 11:24:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
I finally got rid of internet connection at home, so I get some sleep at night again :D

Estel is from Msk too, unfortunately he was on the vacation all August.


So now I can't drink with you while chatting on Skype? :cry
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: Gunslinger on September 16, 2007, 11:37:39 PM
I still think this is a whole lot to do about nothing.

And for the post about Pre/post iraq.  We do not have our entire army in Iraq.  Yes it is wearing us down in manning and equipment but all of those can be replaced.  What you can't put a price on is the lessons learned and the TACTICS developed.  I'm not talking just about urban combat.  I'm talking about how our military thinks moves and communicates as a whole.
Title: Russian blunder
Post by: MORAY37 on September 17, 2007, 09:59:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
I still think this is a whole lot to do about nothing.

And for the post about Pre/post iraq.  We do not have our entire army in Iraq.  Yes it is wearing us down in manning and equipment but all of those can be replaced.  What you can't put a price on is the lessons learned and the TACTICS developed.  I'm not talking just about urban combat.  I'm talking about how our military thinks moves and communicates as a whole.


The Germans didn't have their whole army on the eastern front in ww2 either.... but it was the reason they lost the war.  In case you all missed it, we're committed to Iraq, Afghanistan,  South Korea, and Europe still.    Not the same situation as Germany, but it draws serious parallels.  Our force projection is currently seriously in doubt, should it be needed elsewhere.  The good news, is we're already in every corner of the world now, lol.

As for tactics... that makes me laugh.  The only thing we're currently learning is at a squad level, urban combat, and that's because it's really something you cannot truly teach.  As far as Army wide-  You can't really learn much from an enemy thats tactics lend itself to such engagements as these.