Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Mickey1992 on September 14, 2007, 09:42:14 AM
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http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/14112666/detail.html
How many more have to be mauled or killed? I just seems senseless for this breed to continue to exist.
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So nobody has been killed by other breeds? Or is it that pitbull stories are mediarific and get more coverage?
Think sensationalism, like 50 years ago when a white man raping a black woman would be unreported, but a black man raping a white woman would be blasted across the front page.
Edit: Whoops! Hawt, but whoops
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but a black woman raping a white woman would be blasted across the front page.
I'd say that still would make the front page.
:eek:
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heh, whoops
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It's not the breed but the owners. Yes pit bulls are powerful dogs, and they should not be allowed to roam freely, nor should any other breed for that matter.
I also wonder if it was really a pit bull, not to long ago here the paper had a story about a Pit bull attack, and it turned out to be a mastiff. Of course the media doesn't really care about facts just selling papers, and a mastiff attack doesn't grab headlines like a pit bull attack.
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pit bulls are powerful and aggressive. For the most part.. their owners are the last person who should own a dog.
It makes for a bad combo. I would not ban any breed. I would however save the worst of the breed and when a person got convicted of having a pit and letting it mauls someone.. the owner should be thrown into a room with 3 or four of the dogs for various lengths of time depending on the attack his dog was involved in.
If someone died... he stays till he is dead.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
pit bulls are powerful and aggressive. For the most part.. their owners are the last person who should own a dog.
It makes for a bad combo. I would not ban any breed. I would however save the worst of the breed and when a person got convicted of having a pit and letting it mauls someone.. the owner should be thrown into a room with 3 or four of the dogs for various lengths of time depending on the attack his dog was involved in.
If someone died... he stays till he is dead.
lazs
:aok
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Dogs are like sharks, most dont have the temperment or ability to hurt humans, but some do. Pit bulls have both the aggressive nature and means to hurt and kill people. They are domestically created monsters. I'm sure if we chopped open the head of a few of these killer dogs, we could see parts of their brains that are different from normal, non-killing dogs.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Pack of pit bulls kills two
I just seems senseless for this breed to continue to exist.
American Bulldogs, says article... Not pit bulls...
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Funny how those little, but INCREDIBLY important, details get overlooked once public hysteria and soap-boxing gets involved, isn't it?
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Dogs are like sharks, most dont have the temperment or ability to hurt humans, but some do. Pit bulls have both the aggressive nature and means to hurt and kill people. They are domestically created monsters. I'm sure if we chopped open the head of a few of these killer dogs, we could see parts of their brains that are different from normal, non-killing dogs.
I can tell you have never had any first hand experiance with pit bulls. They are not monsters they are dogs. I have a friend that is terrified of German shepards because as a child she was attacked by one. Does that mean that German shepards are monsters? To her they are.
Try watching "The Dog Whisperer" once in a while. Not only does he have a large, and good looking pit bull, maybe you will learn something about dogs.
I have owned pit bulls, as well as other breeds of dogs and by far the pits were the best dogs I have owned. Any large breed of dog can do harm to a human. And just an fyi if you did look at the brain of a pit it would look just like the brain of any other dog.
Other traits of the breed are loyalty, protectiveness, inteligence and fearlessness.
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but i thought it was a sport. :O
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
American Bulldogs, says article... Not pit bulls...
for emphasis
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How about Rotweilers? And Chows?
They are rather aggresive dogs as well.
It's not the dogs, it's how the owners program them.
I've seen small terriers attack people because the owners made them aggresive. I've also seen Large Boxer Bulls that was as safe as a stuffed animal because the owner's showed it proper love and attention.
Trying to say a certain 'breed' of dog should be put out of existance because of the action of a few of them. Apply that to people... should everyone who lived in New Orleans be labeled the same because of the actions of the looters after Katrina? LA during the riots? NY back in the 70's? Of course not, but that is basically the idea you are trying to convey saying all pit bulls are dangerous because of isolated incidents.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
American Bulldogs, says article... Not pit bulls...
Funny how they changed the article from Pit Bulls to American Bulldogs and make to mention of the correction. :furious
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Originally posted by Saxman
Funny how those little, but INCREDIBLY important, details get overlooked once public hysteria and soap-boxing gets involved, isn't it?
sheeples... one bleats, the rest follow in-line.
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This article mentions pit bulls and bulldogs. Not sure what to believe.
http://www.wlns.com/Global/story.asp?S=7074185&nav=0RbQ
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
This article mentions pit bulls and bulldogs. Not sure what to believe.
http://www.wlns.com/Global/story.asp?S=7074185&nav=0RbQ
There is a pitbull attack every week, you can post next weeks attack
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Dogs are like sharks, most dont have the temperment or ability to hurt humans, but some do. Pit bulls have both the aggressive nature and means to hurt and kill people. They are domestically created monsters. I'm sure if we chopped open the head of a few of these killer dogs, we could see parts of their brains that are different from normal, non-killing dogs.
I'll get my ax.
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Well, another dog attack makes the news.As someone said,it's not the breed of dog,it's the owner!!!! So many ppl have opinions about "pitbulls" saying they are this or that,then I ask"how many "pitbulls" have you owned??
I have been breeding these dogs for 30 years now and I've never had a dog harm a person.Once a stray dog came into my yard,jumped the fence,and I had a little dog on dog aggression.After this happened I put up a 7 foot fence to stop any dog from entering my yard.
While I must admit I'm not up on this story,it appears a pack of dogs were roaming and a person was attacked. So are the dogs to blame or the owners who allow their dogs to roam.
I read Bighorn's post and he states the breed as " american bulldog" but the news wont tell you that,if a dog attacks make it a "pitbull" that will keep the ppl's interest!!!
If the thruth be known,a real fighting dog would never attack a person,human aggression is not tolarated.Any dog showing signs of this is culled.There are ussually several people in the "ring" during a fight,so in order to stop the dogs from biting them it's common to have the right to cull any animal that bites a human.
The human aggression we see today in these "dogs" is a result of bad breeding and the desire of some to make a guard dog from a breed that doesnt make a very good watch dog.
I'm sure some of you will find some fault in this post,thats your right,but don't start telling me "putbull"this and "pitbull"that because then I'll ask how many have you owned.
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people who blame a "breed " for what some owners have allowed there dogs to do are stupid, all stupid people should be culled....
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Originally posted by ink
people who blame a "breed " for what some owners have allowed there dogs to do are stupid, all stupid people should be culled....
Be careful. Some people on these boards consider the inability of a writer to correctly use capitalization and punctuation "stupid".:O
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Originally posted by SIK1
It's not the breed but the owners.
That is pure BS. The fools who have to buy a Pit Bull to make up for something lacking in themselves always say that.
Is it really the owners? Would it be safe to say pit bull owners are tiny donut morons who are trying to prove something by having a "bad-ass dog"? Smarter people would realize the large number of times this happens really isn't a coincidence.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Funny how they changed the article from Pit Bulls to American Bulldogs and make to mention of the correction. :furious
I bet it wasn't changed.
"She always walked, jogged. She just walked around you know its peaceful quiet. We didn't know they had pit bulls over there," said family friend Georgeann Hammond.
Investigators located the dogs, which are American bulldogs, believed to have attacked the victims at an area residence, where they were seized by animal control officers, state police said.
It'd be my guess that you quit reading as soon as you saw the words pit bull and ran to post your find and indignation over the breed on this bbs.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Dogs are like sharks, most dont have the temperment or ability to hurt humans, but some do. Pit bulls have both the aggressive nature and means to hurt and kill people. They are domestically created monsters. I'm sure if we chopped open the head of a few of these killer dogs, we could see parts of their brains that are different from normal, non-killing dogs.
All dogs have the ability to kill. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack.
An example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Chairboy
So nobody has been killed by other breeds? Or is it that pitbull stories are mediarific and get more coverage?
Think sensationalism, like 50 years ago when a white man raping a black woman would be unreported, but a black man raping a white woman would be blasted across the front page.
Edit: Whoops! Hawt, but whoops
You’re only defending them because Pit Bulls are atheists.
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Pitbulls are and always will be loose cannons
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Pit Bulls are like angry three year olds with handguns; lethal yet too stupid to have the ability to kill.
Other breeds are more like three year olds with hammers; they can hurt someone but will most likely be stopped before they kill.
Wild squirrels can bite but are really unlikely to kill or maim anyone. So, we put up with them and let them go about their business even in human populated areas. Bears also can bite but are somewhat likely to kill or main. It’s only smart to keep them out of human populated areas. Why is this concept so hard for a few people?
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That is pure BS. The fools who have to buy a Pit Bull to make up for something lacking in themselves always say that.
You couldn't be more wrong. There is no such thing as a bad dog, only bad (or lazy) owners.
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quote:
That is pure BS. The fools who have to buy a Pit Bull to make up for something lacking in themselves always say that.
Originally posted by Elfie
You couldn't be more wrong. There is no such thing as a bad dog, only bad (or lazy) owners.
Let me guess,
You have Pit Bulls and a small…
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Originally posted by eskimo2
quote:
That is pure BS. The fools who have to buy a Pit Bull to make up for something lacking in themselves always say that.
Let me guess,
You have Pit Bulls and a small…
I do not currently own a pit bull, in fact, I have never personally owned a pit bull. I have however lived with a brother who did own one and had a roommate that owned one. I have seen both good and bad pit bulls, just as I have seen good and bad examples of just about any other breed you care to mention.
As far as your implication about my manhood......is the reason you ask because you are gay and interested in me? I don't swing that way...so fugedaboutit.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/14112666/detail.html
How many more have to be mauled or killed? I just seems senseless for this breed to continue to exist.
These animals make fine pets, but hunt in packs when loose. I say kill them all. Eliminate this needless threat to safety.
If the owners don't want to kill them, I say we put them to sleep at the same time. Get some more morons out of the gene pool.
:)
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These animals make fine pets, but hunt in packs when loose
Dogs by their very nature are pack animals. When we keep any dog as a pet, humans become the dog's *pack*. Let any dog run loose and he'll find a new *pack* to run with, whether it's a new human family or other dogs.
So I suppose we should just kill every dog in America. :rolleyes:
*edit* Interesting that the dogs involved in these 2 killings weren't even pit bulls, they were American Bulldogs, yet the ranting about pit bulls continues unabated. :D
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanbulldog.htm
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Well, the post was tongue in cheek...but...
All dogs will run in packs..
Many of these packs will kill deer, for example...
Like it or not, Pitbulls have a high rate of attacking humans. Most dogs don't.
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pit bulls or American Bulldogs, i can't tell the difference.
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I can't recall the breeds, but there are some that roughly fit the category of pit pulls. Pit bull is not a breed, rather a generic term.
Boxers, for one....., bull dogs, some terriers I think.....
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A law just went into effect a week or two ago in Texas that makes the owner of dog involved in an attack criminally responsible if the owner was negligent in any way. Put a few bozos in prison for 10-20 and some might decide certain breeds aren't worth the risk.
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Like it or not, Pitbulls have a high rate of attacking humans. Most dogs don't.
* Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner or handler most often is responsible for making a dog into something dangerous.
* An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).
* Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be potentially dangerous. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack.
From this link: http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
Yes, it does list pit bulls as one the leaders in fatalities and bites. I attribute this to the large number of folks that buy them for the *coolness factor* or because it's a fad. These same folks are not likely to be responsible owners, properly socializing and training the animal.
Here's a good read on why dogs bite.
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/whybite.html
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Originally posted by TalonX
I can't recall the breeds, but there are some that roughly fit the category of pit pulls. Pit bull is not a breed, rather a generic term.
Boxers, for one....., bull dogs, some terriers I think.....
The American Pit Bull Terrier is closely related to the American Staffordshire Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
The AKC no longer recognizes the APBT as a breed due to them being crossbred with other dogs. The UKC does recognize the APBT.
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Originally posted by TalonX
Like it or not, Pitbulls have a high rate of attacking humans. Most dogs don't.
Cocker spaniels are widely known for their tendency to bite for no reason. They even have term for it, "Cocker Rage". More people are bit by these dogs in the U.S. then by any other dog.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Elfie
You couldn't be more wrong. There is no such thing as a bad dog, only bad (or lazy) owners.
Really? Then why don't we read about Collies attacking people and mauling them? Or Golden Retrievers on a rampage? Maybe I just missed the poodles gone bad shows?
If you are right, it's all about bad dog owners, then it would seem that the really stupid mean and lazy people most always choose pit bulls.
BTW, plenty of lazy people own dogs, but almost every other breed owned by lazy people are not commonly associate with or reported to be out mauling and killing people. So, lets use a little common sense and keep "lazy" out of it, and just stick with the mean and stupid people.
You have proven one of my points. The other seems to escape you, the dogs are by nature a very aggressive dog, and to deny that proven reality is just plain foolish.
I once watched a young boy who brought a pit bull to a kids soccer game. That pit bull tore away from that boy on his own and went after a dog 100 yards away, a dog who wasn't barking, acting aggressive, or for that matter even aware of the pit bull. The pit bull went into full attack without provocation or suggestion from the "owner". It is just their nature to do things like that.
So, yes, it is the owners, they tend to be less intelligent and so desperate to prove themselves bad-asses in need of attention, and the dogs are aggressive by nature, not just defensive.
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Foolish to think that some breeds aren't more aggressive by nature than others. Chihuahuas are an aggressive breed but you don't hear about them maiming or killing people too often, tacos yes, people no.
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Originally posted by Dago
That is pure BS. The fools who have to buy a Pit Bull to make up for something lacking in themselves always say that.
Is it really the owners? Would it be safe to say pit bull owners are tiny donut morons who are trying to prove something by having a "bad-ass dog"? Smarter people would realize the large number of times this happens really isn't a coincidence.
Yes, it really is the owners. I have personaly owned Stafordshire Terriers, aka pit bulls. I have never had one of my dogs attack another animal, or human being. At the time I lived in the country where there were horses, cattle, cats, other dogs, and of course people.
As a matter of fact you help support my argument in your post. It is the "tiny donut morons who are trying to prove something by having a "bad-ass dog" " that are the problem. But to say that all pit bull owners fall into that category is like saying that all people that can quote Einstein are intelligent.
Edit to fix a grammer error before the grammer and spelling nazis found me.
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Look up the dog bite stats,what are the top 3 breeds to bite????
Hmmm not PB's
I breed and raise dogs for the show ring and think anyone who would fight a dog should be locked up.
Any dog can and will bite,but a properly socialized dog is of little danger reguardless of breed.
Take away the pitbulls and people will just turn to another breed. On my last count there are 106 mastif type dogs,some as much as 200 pounds.These breeds served 2 purposes,herding and guarding,whereas the PB was originally bred to fight each other and had little or no human aggression.
The mastifs used for guarding can be some of the most dangerous dog,but we hear little of them.Why??? Because they are expensive and rare.Say whatever you like about "pitbulls" the only reason we hear about them so much is that they a cheap to get and relatively common.
Every pup starts out the same,it's the owner that makes them a good dog or a threat.
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Originally posted by Dago
Really? Then why don't we read about Collies attacking people and mauling them? Or Golden Retrievers on a rampage? Maybe I just missed the poodles gone bad shows?
According to a 27-year study of dogs in the New York City area made by Dr. Robert Oleson, of the U.S. Public Health Service, these are the 9 dogs most apt to take a nibble out of a human being. They are, in the order of their aggressiveness:
1. German shepherd
2. Chow chow
3. Poodle
4. Italian bulldog
5. Fox terrier
6. Mixed chow chow
7. Airedale
8. Pekingese
9. Mixed German shepherd
Here is an excerpt from a dog buying guide that mentions which breeds to watch out for possible aggressive tendencies and which breeds tend to be more gentle.
Beware of THESE Dogs.
The truth of the matter is, all dogs can be provoked or egged on to bite. There's no such thing as a "bad" breed. Practically all kinds of dogs are trainable. Proper training and socialization can make otherwise violent dogs, such as pit bull terriers and Rottweilers, adorable and gentle ones.
Dog owners should have their beloved pets trained to follow basic commands like come, sit, lie and stay. Obedience training school is one way of effectively preventing many dog-biting incidents, but you should try to find time for day-to-day instruction between dog and master, as well. This helps build the bond between you and your dog; when your dog trusts you enough, he dare not attack other people, particularly YOU.
Here's a look at the various dog breeds that are considered potentially aggressive.
Chow Chows are one-person dogs that tend to bite without any warning. They are also a bit ferocious around strangers, and can be quite a tenacious fighter. So make sure to discipline this dog and set right from wrong, immediately.
The Papillon is fiercely loyal of their owners - to a fault. They can be quite possessive and standoffish to strangers.
Old English Sheepdogs are very protective of their owners so they might be aggressive if anybody tends to be too close to its owners.
A Llasa Apso often gets cranky around kids.
Rottweilers are extremely protective of their masters.
Chihuahuas aren't too fond of kids. They'd rather be with adults than play around with tots.
Toy Poodles bite people and other animals out of self defense. Unfortunately, 'playing' according to you may be perceived as a form of 'attack' to them.
Dachshunds aren't known for their patience.
Jack Russell Terriers are feisty creatures who require early training to prevent long-term biting and digging problems.
Giant Schnauzers are very dominant. They often challenge adults, particularly strangers.
Cocker Spaniels often suffer from a dangerous genetic disease known as "rage syndrome." This syndrome causes spontaneous violent action against not strangers, but actual family members. Many Spaniels have been put down because of this unwanted behavior. Check with the breeder to ensure your Spaniel is free from this dangerous dog disease.
The Pekingese isn't all that tolerant of strangers.
Miniature Pinschers usually have aggression issues because they've got this "big dog-little body" mind set going on.
Here's a rundown of breeds that are typically gentle but can't shake off their "bad dog" image.
Boxers are pretty good with kids. They are good watchdogs.
Bulldogs are very playful and gentle.
Great Danes, while considerable in size, happen to be kind and affectionate.
Mastiffs are especially quiet and docile.
German Shepherds are great with kids too. These are courageous, fiercely loyal dogs who, if trained properly, will be extremely gentle to family and guests.
Rottweilers are also capable of tenderness and affection. They have a bad rep, but if they trust you, you'll never have to worry.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Dago
That is pure BS. The fools who have to buy a Pit Bull to make up for something lacking in themselves always say that.
Is it really the owners? Would it be safe to say pit bull owners are tiny donut morons who are trying to prove something by having a "bad-ass dog"? Smarter people would realize the large number of times this happens really isn't a coincidence.
i'd say the majority of those types acquire a firearm first.
so.... how many you got?
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Originally posted by AKIron
A law just went into effect a week or two ago in Texas that makes the owner of dog involved in an attack criminally responsible if the owner was negligent in any way. Put a few bozos in prison for 10-20 and some might decide certain breeds aren't worth the risk.
Yea.......good luck with that.
Hunt Co. S.O.`s standard response------> "We do not respond to dog bite calls".
A neighbor was attacked by a Pit that belonged to a moron that wouldn`t keep him up and had been causing trouble for weeks.
S.O. was a no show. Refused to respond. Seen it happen here many times.
BOOM...........good dog. :)
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I think it is really lame to just say that it is the owner and not the dog.
Of course it is the dog... an aggressive tiny dog is not too much of a problem... funny thing tho... people who have tiny dogs seem to be more responsible.. the dogs are generally in the house and always watched and the owners watch the dogs..
All large and aggressive dogs are a problem... some breeds are more aggressive than others... a golden retriever for instance is a big dog but is rarely involved in a biting.... good thing.. it is a large and powerful dog.
The problem is that the owners can't.... not just won't but CAN'T control the aggressive pit and rot and even sheperd...
Get it? they can't. they have a dangerous weapon that they have no control over.... the dogs rarely attack when the owner is even there.
contrast that with firearms... no firearm is "aggressive" and no firearm gets loose on it's own and attacks people.
Even the best large dog owner can't guarentee that his dog won't maul or kill a child when he is not there.
If he takes that chance... if that is a risk he is willing to take... then he should be willing to take the risk of the death penalty for himself.
lazs
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Originally posted by Torque
i'd say the majority of those types acquire a firearm first.
so.... how many you got?
Wow, really lacking the perception necessary that you have to go to firearms, that this comes from a Canadian who is subject to very restricted rights on firearms shouldn't come as a surprise.
Here is something to destroy your little jab, most people who own guns don't make a show of it. Pit bull owners normally do so they can display what bad tulips they are.
I own guns, but I don't show them off, don't as a rule discuss them to non-gun owners, and do not suffer any illusion about them making me a tough guy. The opposite is the rule for pit bull owners. With them, its mostly about ego boost.
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as I said... guns don't chew through the fence and attack the neighborhood kids and maul them to death... guns don't come in through the doggy door and attack people in their sleep..
guns have killed many a dog gone feral in a pack... I have shot about a dozen myself.
lazs
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Originally posted by Dago
Wow, really lacking the perception necessary that you have to go to firearms, that this comes from a Canadian who is subject to very restricted rights on firearms shouldn't come as a surprise.
Here is something to destroy your little jab, most people who own guns don't make a show of it. Pit bull owners normally do so they can display what bad tulips they are.
I own guns, but I don't show them off, don't as a rule discuss them to non-gun owners, and do not suffer any illusion about them making me a tough guy. The opposite is the rule for pit bull owners. With them, its mostly about ego boost.
dago, you're blaming the wrong bred just like the liberal media is doing.
they... want to sell more toothpaste and tampoons, so... i guess headlines like ' american staffordshire terrier mauls little girl" won't do.
now... if you had written 'american staffordshire' instead of 'pitbull' i would agree with you.
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Originally posted by Torque
dago, you're blaming the wrong bred just like the liberal media is doing.
they... want to sell more toothpaste and tampoons, so... i guess headlines like ' american staffordshire terrier mauls little girl" won't do.
now... if you had written 'american staffordshire' instead of 'pitbull' i would agree with you.
Pit bull isn't really even a breed as I am sure you know, but the term pit bull is an encompassing breed association to include the American Staffordshire Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Some people will include other breeds with similar features and size in the "pit bull" designation.
I don't that either of these breeds have been shown more or less given to attacks or maulings. The problem with them is they don't bite and stop, or bite in a manner than doesn't risk lethal injury. They tend to attack and maul in a continuing manner until either stopped, or the victim is dead. Not a desirable trait in a dog.
I would like to see the owner of any pit bull who mauls or kills to be prosecuted as if they personally had performed the attack, and manslaughter up to murder be charged when the dog attack results in death. Maybe then, and only then would the person who think owning one of these dogs makes them appear like badasses rethink the need to boost their self-image in some other manner. Maybe they could just do like a lot of others and buy a Harley in an attempt to build a self-image?
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For what its worth, earlier this summer I went to visit a friend at rehab during a massive family day picnick (sp) where pets were allowed. Out of the 50 or so dogs, i'd say 45 were Pitbulls, if that gives any indication to what kind of person buys there dogs....
I think the biggest factor determining whether your pit will be a vicious animal or a friendly pet is in the hands of the owners...That said, i've seen too many friends with what we thought to be "good" pitbulls, raised better than most dogs, turn on humans in an instant and attack...Come to think of it...I've never known a friend who has has a "good" pitbull that unprovoked turns bad, and doesnt attack more than once. Everyone has had to put them down because multiple attacks, even after the best care for the dogs after the first.
So the owner does have a lot of influence over the dog, but with this breed, and not limited to others, but especially this breed, pits can naturally turn very bad, more so than a lot of other dogs....
And don't give me the "its 100% the owners fault crap". Do you also blame the parents or guardians of every criminal and drug addict in the world too?
And so its known....I have never owned a pitbull, nor would I ever own one. Like I said, I have been around them for a while with friends that have owned them, and i'm never comfortable with them. I've owned GSD's my whole life, and I understand it takes a lot of work by the owners to control big, aggressive dogs, but pits are another story to me.
Good for the people who give them a chance and rescue them from being put down...It really is too bad that the breed has had such a bad rep because of the actions of maybe 25-35% of the dogs....That said, even though the odds are highly against your pitbull ever attacking you or someone else, i'm not ever going to take that risk by allowing one in my home or on my property.
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Originally posted by Dago
snip
I once watched a young boy who brought a pit bull to a kids soccer game. That pit bull tore away from that boy on his own and went after a dog 100 yards away, a dog who wasn't barking, acting aggressive, or for that matter even aware of the pit bull. The pit bull went into full attack without provocation or suggestion from the "owner". It is just their nature to do things like that.
I once saw a guy named Gianelli start a fistfight at his kid's Little League game because another parent was cheering against his son's team. Obviously, its just in WOPs' nature to be violent and anti-social, right Dago?
I once saw a guy named Garza drive off without paying after having pumped gas into his car. Obviously, greasers are thieves, right Dago?
I could go on. I hope my point is obvious.
Besides that, you and everyone else who jump into these threads wailing and gnashing teeth about how dangerous pit bulls are by nature are full of hogwash. Its obvious to me that you lack experience with the breed. If you'd ever had experience with a large number of them, you'd also know how full of hogwash the rest of the idiots saying this crap are.
Don't get me wrong. The breed is possessed of physical characteristics that give them the ability to cause great damage if they do become aggressive. They're very strong.
But I owned a collie who broke I don't know how many leashes doing the same thing you described that the pit bull did at the game. He'd immediately charge and engage any other male dog he saw. Duke just thought he was the only dog with a right to contribute to the gene pool :)
You gonna tell me that's proof that collies are by nature killers?
Doofus, you and the rest. You don't know squat about dogs.
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Yes you're right, it's all a lie, everyone is making up all the news reports, the gov't statistics etc. just to pull the biggest lie over on everyone. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
You can deny, imagine, manufacture untruths, whatever you want, the reality is what the reality is. Pit bulls maul and kill, and they often do it without provocation. They cannot be guaranteed to not attack, and when they do attack they don't just nip and run. They maul and kill.
And yes, the majority owners are low life handsomehunkes.
Let's toss one more reality in to get your attention, I don't know what "wops or greasers" do. I am not Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Mexican etc. But, feel free to be a racist, it fits the stereotype of a pit bull owner. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Dago
Yes you're right, it's all a lie, everyone is making up all the news reports, the gov't statistics etc. just to pull the biggest lie over on everyone. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Here's a challenge: reveal exactly what statistics you refer to. Cite references.
Originally posted by Dago
Let's toss one more reality in to get your attention, I don't know what "wops or greasers" do. I am not Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Mexican etc. But, feel free to be a racist, it fits the stereotype of a pit bull owner. :rolleyes:
Here's a clue: Find a dictionary and look up "irony".
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I own a Pitt Bull.
She is gentle, and subservient, and will take the smallest morsel I offer her from my own mouth! I've no fear of this.
We play a universal game and say that it is the pilot who makes the difference, not the plane.
The same is true with dogs. Take the time to learn your dog and give it the same discipline, affection, and respect you'd give to any member of your family; do this and you'll not chain your dog, just as you don't chain family members.
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Originally posted by Elfie
From this link: http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
Yes, it does list pit bulls as one the leaders in fatalities and bites. I attribute this to the large number of folks that buy them for the *coolness factor* or because it's a fad. These same folks are not likely to be responsible owners, properly socializing and training the animal.
Here's a good read on why dogs bite.
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/whybite.html
The percentage of pit bulls in this country is small compared to other breeds. For them to lead the bite category proves my point. They have to be statistically far more likely to bite than other breeds, or you'd expect parity with distribution.
Face it, pit bulls are dangerous to others (not the owners to my knowledge).
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Chairboy yer such a frikken left wing watermelon you curl.
Do you REALLY believe the crap you speak?
I met some screwed up bastages but man you have them running.
Seek help.
With Love,
Mac
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Originally posted by culero
Here's a challenge: reveal exactly what statistics you refer to. Cite references.
Here's a clue: Find a dictionary and look up "irony".
If you had been paying attention to this thread you would have already seen this link with statistics.
Statistic Link (http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html)
Now, I would suggest you look up "racist" in the dictionary, then look up "irony", as your obvious 8th grade education at Tom Landry Middle School failed to teach you the correct meaning of the terms. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Now, if you can find google, do your own search for dog mauling and do your own research. You might find this:
Dog Bite Fatality Statistics (http://ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Publications/mmwr/wk/mm4621.pdf)
You will see the statistics show fatalities from dog attack have the pit bull at twice the Rottweiller, 3 times the German Shepard, and infinitely worse than most all other breeds. And this is despite the fact that there are less pit bulls than the other breeds in our society.
Now, wipe the spittle off your screen, put away the beer, and get a life where you don't need a dog breed to make you feel better about yourself.
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Really? Then why don't we read about Collies attacking people and mauling them? Or Golden Retrievers on a rampage? Maybe I just missed the poodles gone bad shows?
Nearly 5 million dog bites annually in the US, 800,000 of them requiring medical attention. You only hear about pit bulls, rottweilers etc because that is sensationalist news. When a poodle bites only the person that got bit cares.
You obviously didnt go check out any of the links I posted either.
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Pit bull isn't really even a breed as I am sure you know, but the term pit bull is an encompassing breed association to include the American Staffordshire Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Some people will include other breeds with similar features and size in the "pit bull" designation.
WRONG!! Pit bulls are a separate breed.
http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/americanpitbullterrier.html
They are very closely related to the American Staffordshire Terrier and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, but a separate breed. The American Kennel Club doesn't recognize the pit bull but the United Kennel Club does.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanstaffordshire.htm
In the nineteenth century in the English region of Staffordshire, crossing among the Bulldog and various terriers developed the muscular, active, combative Staffordshire Bullterrier. Brought to the United States, the breed was preferred by American breeders who increased its weight and gave it a more powerful head. Now recognized as a separate breed, the American Staffordshire is larger and heavier than his British cousin, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. After dog fighting was banned in the United States in 1900, two strains of these dogs were developed, a show strain and a fighting dog strain. The show strain was labeled the American Staffordshire, while the fighting dog strain was labeled the American Pit Bull Terrier. The two are now being recognized as separate breeds. Today the American Pit Bull Terrier is being bred with the same gentle qualities as the American Staffordshire Terrier. They both make great pets with the right kind of owner. Some of the American Staffordshire Terriers talents are watchdog, guarding, police work, weight pulling and agility.
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You will see the statistics show fatalities from dog attack have the pit bull at twice the Rottweiller, 3 times the German Shepard, and infinitely worse than most all other breeds. And this is despite the fact that there are less pit bulls than the other breeds in our society.
I agree that when they do attack, pit bulls are more dangerous. However, I can not find any statistics on numbers of dogs owned by breed in this country. The pit bull is quite popular as are many other breeds.
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See Rule #2
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I think it is really lame to just say that it is the owner and not the dog.
It all starts with day 1 when you bring the pup home Lazs. Breeds that tend to be aggressive absolutely MUST be socialized with as many other humans and animals as possible as soon as it is possible to do so.
Taking the pup to parks (on a leash of course) that have other folks with their dogs is an outstanding way to accomplish the socialization of the pup to other animals and humans at the same time.
Obedience training is the other absolute must. Sit, stay, down, come and heal commands need to be taught and the dog must learn to obey them regardless of his own wishes, obedience needs to be immediate.
Any dog that breaks a leash, pulls its leash from its masters hand has not been properly trained.
I can teach a dog to crap in one corner of the yard and that corner only. I can teach a dog to not touch it's food until I say it's ok, and it won't matter if I leave the house.
It's people that don't bother to teach their dogs anything that are the problem.
Any dog can be taught as long as one condition is met. The dog must have a desire to please.
Dogs that dont show a desire to please, can still be taught simply by not feeding the dog for a couple days. When you do feed him, make him sit while you place his food. In extreme cases this might require assistance from another person to ensure the dog stays put while the food is placed. Once it is placed, dont immediately allow the animal to go to his food, make him wait a minute or two. Once you let him go to his food, praise him and pet him while he eats. He will soon associate being fed (a pleasurable thing) to kindness and soft words, something all dogs like. He will want to please you (sitting and staying) in order to get his food. From that point, the rest is easy. Use food rewards like cheese or small pieces of hotdogs as rewards during the training process.
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Originally posted by TalonX
The percentage of pit bulls in this country is small compared to other breeds. For them to lead the bite category proves my point. They have to be statistically far more likely to bite than other breeds, or you'd expect parity with distribution.
Face it, pit bulls are dangerous to others (not the owners to my knowledge).
Can you show statistics that show a break down of dog ownership in the US by breed? Seventy three million dogs in the US and I can't find statistics for how many of which type are out there.
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Originally posted by Elfie
It all starts with day 1 when you bring the pup home Lazs. Breeds that tend to be aggressive absolutely MUST be socialized with as many other humans and animals as possible as soon as it is possible to do so.
Taking the pup to parks (on a leash of course) that have other folks with their dogs is an outstanding way to accomplish the socialization of the pup to other animals and humans at the same time.
Obedience training is the other absolute must. Sit, stay, down, come and heal commands need to be taught and the dog must learn to obey them regardless of his own wishes, obedience needs to be immediate.
Any dog that breaks a leash, pulls its leash from its masters hand has not been properly trained.
I can teach a dog to crap in one corner of the yard and that corner only. I can teach a dog to not touch it's food until I say it's ok, and it won't matter if I leave the house.
It's people that don't bother to teach their dogs anything that are the problem.
Any dog can be taught as long as one condition is met. The dog must have a desire to please.
Dogs that dont show a desire to please, can still be taught simply by not feeding the dog for a couple days. When you do feed him, make him sit while you place his food. In extreme cases this might require assistance from another person to ensure the dog stays put while the food is placed. Once it is placed, dont immediately allow the animal to go to his food, make him wait a minute or two. Once you let him go to his food, praise him and pet him while he eats. He will soon associate being fed (a pleasurable thing) to kindness and soft words, something all dogs like. He will want to please you (sitting and staying) in order to get his food. From that point, the rest is easy. Use food rewards like cheese or small pieces of hotdogs as rewards during the training process.
And yet this really isn't necessary with a Golden Retriever or most any other breed to prevent them from mauling children, adults or other dogs to death.
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Originally posted by Dago
Pit bull isn't really even a breed as I am sure you know, but the term pit bull is an encompassing breed association to include the American Staffordshire Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Some people will include other breeds with similar features and size in the "pit bull" designation.
actually it is the opposite dago, and that's my point
the ukc was founded in 1898 to give the 'american pit bull terrier' a working dog registry, as the snooty akc wanted nothing to do with fighting aspects of the breed.
in 1909 the america dog breeders association was created to solely document the lineage of apbt game stock as well. john p colby of 'colby kennels' the oldest breeder of the apbt being the mainstay, and yes i had a registered colby/red devil dog when i was a kid back in the 80's. the adba also published the pitbull gazette with stud and fight results etc... due to politics at the ukc most if not all dog men of the times gravitated to the adba.
in the late thirties the akc jumped on the bandwagon during the 'little rascal' era because of the popularity of 'pete' who was a colby dog. colby sold dogs to people like thomas edison and roosevelt, it is a colby dog on the rca logo. but do to the politics of dog fighting the akc would only reconize apbt as 'american staffs' and refused the 'pitbull' part.
i think it is rather obvious now that the apbt is a distinct and unique breed, dogs bred from game stock and registered under the adba since the early 1900's should make it so. that's my point tho... if a dog is not registered under the abda and if it doesn't have game lineage it shouldn't be labeled an 'american pitbull terrier' by the media, but rather it should be labeled by the more generic term 'american staffordshire terrier'.
i agree with you about the rest.
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OK, Dago, fair enough with regard to the statistics. Thanks.
Still, my point remains. I'm like Elfie, I agree that if and when a pit bull attacks, its likely to cause severe damage. They're extremely strong dogs who were bred to bite hard. That makes sense, and I never disputed it.
What I disagree with is that they are more prone to bite by instinct and breeding than many other breeds of dog. I base that on, to be fair, anecdotal evidence, but its anecdotal evidence I believe strongly.
See, its my personal experience I am talking about. Indulge me and consider that.
First, I've been a "dog guy" all my life. I have owned many large dogs of various breeds, socialized with others who do so, and I live in an area where pit bulls specifically are a prevalent breed. Again specifically, they are prevalent here because dogfighting is prevalent here.
I know people personally who breed and fight them, so I have personal experience with the "bad" pit bulls. I agree with you 100% about those dogs. There's IMO no place for them in our community. Every time I have ever seen one loose from its cage or chain on its owner's property, I have immediately shot it dead. (True fact there, I can relate the circumstances of about half a dozen kills both on my property and elsewhere). If I see one loose that I don't know, I assume its bad just because.
However, all that said, I also know many more people who own them as pets. I have personal experience with these dogs, too. That experience has shown me that they're like any other breed when raised as a pet. They show, as a matter of fact, less tendency to aggression vs people than other breeds such as poodles (a #1 "biter" breed IMO), chows, blue heelers, etc.
So, bottom line, do I respect the potential for damage a strange pit bull presents? Hell yes. But I dispute that as a breed they are disposed to aggression vs *people* more than other breeds. Their breeding was specifically to make them aggressive vs other *dogs*, not people.
Side info as to my experience with dog ownership, I've had several German Shepherds, Dobermans, Labs, a Collie, and many mutts. I trained the Shepherds and Dobies to be excellent guard dogs, and my hunting Labs were well known locally for their skills. I'm not a dog neophyte by far. When I tell you I have direct experience with many pit bulls and have observed its primarily training rather than breeding that makes them dangerous when they are dangerous I say so advisedly.
That's why I say those who say different speak from ignorance.
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From the posts offered up so far, I'd say the city-boys just don't get it.
It IS the owner. Every aggressive, problem dog it has ever been my misfortune to come into contact with has been owned by a neanderthal. The fighting breeds are stronger and more powerful than lap dogs, and that is the type of breed such an owner wants, to impress his friends and frighten his neighbors. Such an individual could turn a golden retriever into a dangerous menace.
Responsible, level-headed owners almost never have aggressive, dangerous dogs.
I've lived around and worked with many different working, hunting, and fighting breeds of dogs in my more than 50 years on the earth, and I can say that I've been threatened by several types. Yet those that were most aggressive were those that had been trained to be that way.
My nephiew was, for quite some time, menaced by a chow owned by a neighbor, who allowed it to roam loose. Repeated requests to the owner, some nice and others not so nice, to keep the dog up were of no avail. He had a bad-ass dog and he liked having it wandering the neighborhood intimidating the locals.
One day, while working on his truck, the chow came into the yard and began to growl and make rushes at him. He beat it away on two occasions with a fan belt, but it refused to leave, and returned to the attack a third time.
At that point, my nephiew's dog, a mountain cur named Gus, flew into a rage at the threat to his owner. He hit the end of the chain that kept him tethered to a post, snapped it, and made full-tilt for the chow.
Scratch one chow. Yet, the fault lay not with the dog, but with the crap-brained twit that encouraged his aggression.
A good owner can raise the most ferocious fighting breed and never have a dangerous dog.
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I agree a bad dog owner makes for a bad dog. And I don't dispute other dogs are as likely to bite as a Pit Bull. It is just the Pit Bull is most likely to kill. Most dogs will bite and stop. Pit bulls don't stop, they by nature don't stop till their victim dies. That is one thing that makes the dog the danger it is. The other is it's tendancy to overprotect, and become aggressive without either warning or provocation.
My last dog was a Golden Retriever, and currently we are dog sitting my sons Yellow Lab while my son is serving overseas. Those dogs don't see someone at the door, or walking accross the lawn as intruders, they see them as friends to sniff and get petted by. A pit bull would be more likely to attack.
So, why would anyone want a dog that is such a danger and liability is beyond me, other than to boost their own lacking self-image.
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Originally posted by Dago
And yet this really isn't necessary with a Golden Retriever or most any other breed to prevent them from mauling children, adults or other dogs to death.
It is necessary with all dogs. (Socialization and training) The larger breeds are all capable of killing humans. They are all capable of mauling other dogs. Socialization and training prevents this.
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My last dog was a Golden Retriever, and currently we are dog sitting my sons Yellow Lab while my son is serving overseas. Those dogs don't see someone at the door, or walking accross the lawn as intruders, they see them as friends to sniff and get petted by. A pit bull would be more likely to attack.
Even pit bulls can be like your golden retriever or your sons yellow lab. A lady my wife works with, her son has a pit bull that greets strangers with tail wagging and begging to be petted. That pit bull is a perfect example of one that has been properly trained and socialized, tell it to sit, and her butt immediately hits the ground and stays there until told otherwise.
I've seen many well behaved and non agressive, even friendly, pit bulls. I don't know what the answer is for the lazy owner that doesnt care enough about his pet to socialize/train it properly. I just know we can't blame the entire breed for the inactions of some owners.
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Pits are not my favorite breed (Basset Hounds) but they have become a favorite of a**holes. Pits become agressive if trained to do so. They become bad dogs if they are mistreated.
But,
Pit Bulls serve as therapy/service dogs. The Chako Rescue Association has Pit Bull therapy dogs in Texas, Utah and California. Helen Keller even had a Pit Bull as her canine companion and helper. Cheyenne and Dakota are a team of hard-working Search-and-Rescue Pit Bulls in Sacramento, California. They play an important role in their community by locating missing people in conjunction with the local Sheriff. In their off-duty hours, they do charity work as therapy dogs.
(http://www.dakotapuppydog.com/images/rascals.jpg)
Petey, the faithful dog of the The Little Rascals, was a Pit Bull. He spent countless hours with children day after day and never hurt anyone. He was one of the most intelligent Hollywood dogs of all time.
(http://www.lewrockwell.com/kwiatkowski/rca-dog.jpg)
The RCA dog is a Pit Bull
(http://www.ig-apbt.org/img/srgt_stubby1.jpg)
America's first war dog was a Pit Bull named Stubby. He earned several medals during World War I and was honored at the White House. The Ken-L-Ration dog hero of 1993 was a Pit Bull named Weela. She saved 30 people, 29 dogs, 13 horses and a cat during a flood in Southern California. A Pit Bull named Bogart saved a four-year-old child from drowning in a swimming pool in Florida. Dixie, the Pit Bull, was inducted into the Georgia Animal Hall of Fame after she saved some children from a Cottonmouth snake.
Treat any dog well and they will return in kind.
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Originally posted by Dago
snip
A pit bull would be more likely to attack.
This in a nutshell is what's in dispute. I disagree. In my experience a pit bull raised as a pet is no more likely to initiate an attack on a human than many other breeds. The statistics you quoted IMO are true due to the fact that many pit bull owners are ****-heads that train them to be aggressive, and that the breed is strong physically.
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so a dog bred to fight and kill is not dangerous? That's like saying a dog bred to herd sheep won't herd sheep.
sorry, that dog won't hunt. (pun).
my labs don't have to be trained not to kill.
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Originally posted by john9001
so a dog bread to fight and kill is not dangerous? That's like saying a dog bread to herd sheep won't herd sheep.
sorry, that dog won't hunt. (pun).
my labs don't have to be trained not to kill.
Bred to have the physical characteristics that allow them, with training, to fight and kill. Big difference there. Their nature isn't dangerous. They are just frequently trained to be dangerous.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Yea.......good luck with that.
Hunt Co. S.O.`s standard response------> "We do not respond to dog bite calls".
A neighbor was attacked by a Pit that belonged to a moron that wouldn`t keep him up and had been causing trouble for weeks.
S.O. was a no show. Refused to respond. Seen it happen here many times.
BOOM...........good dog. :)
Jackal, does the Hunt Co. S.O. respond to the discharge of a firearm in a residential area?
I know that in Southern California, if you pot a dog within city limits, You can expect that if it's reported, that they will be there in quick response mode (Thinking it's a person that got shot) and will not be in a good mood.
A friend of mine down the street where I grew up shot a dog on his property. 15 min. later his house was surrounded by Sheriff's cars. I did not know what happened right when they showed up, but he was kinda angry at being disarmed and sat down by the S.O.'s. The dog was one that had been a general pest in the neighborhood, scattering trash all over people's lawns, and crapping all over their lawns, etc.
I also remember him getting in a heated argument with the dog's owner over the whole thing. But it was 20 years' ago, and I don't remember all the details.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Jackal, does the Hunt Co. S.O. respond to the discharge of a firearm in a residential area?
Yes. Usualy by going to the other side of the county. :aok
Seriously , in the incident with my neighbor, they did respond after either two or three days when it got to the point that things had heated up to the point of total frustration with the S.O. and threats from the dog owner. My neighbor`s wife told S.O. on the phone that since they didn`t seem to be interested that she assumed they meant for the situation to be handled by any means possible. She said no problem she would get on it immediately . They came right out. :)
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Stats show that about 4 breeds are responsible for about 75% of all serious dog attacks.
But elfie... you convinced me.. it is the owner and not the dog... I would say that 9 out of ten pit bulls should be shot but... that works out becuause... 9 out of ten of their owners should be shot.
You can't go too wrong by always being armed around pit bulls or the people who would own one.
I would not ban any dog but the penalty for owning a dog big enough to maul someone and then letting em do it should be huge.
You can tell kids to stay away from large aggressive dogs.... you can teach em.. but how do you protect em from the dogs that go after them?
When it happens... how do you write it off as "an accident"?
I shot 3 dogs a few years back who had "packed up" out in the country... they were not pits but one looked sorta like one... they were all large at about 60 lbs... one was not hit too bad (if any hit with a 44 mag can be considered not "too bad") I hope it made it home to the owner.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
But elfie... you convinced me.. it is the owner and not the dog... I would say that 9 out of ten pit bulls should be shot but... that works out becuause... 9 out of ten of their owners should be shot.
Pit Bulls don't kill people, people kill people.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Stats show that about 4 breeds are responsible for about 75% of all serious dog attacks.
But elfie... you convinced me.. it is the owner and not the dog... I would say that 9 out of ten pit bulls should be shot but... that works out becuause... 9 out of ten of their owners should be shot.
You can't go too wrong by always being armed around pit bulls or the people who would own one.
I would not ban any dog but the penalty for owning a dog big enough to maul someone and then letting em do it should be huge.
You can tell kids to stay away from large aggressive dogs.... you can teach em.. but how do you protect em from the dogs that go after them?
When it happens... how do you write it off as "an accident"?
I shot 3 dogs a few years back who had "packed up" out in the country... they were not pits but one looked sorta like one... they were all large at about 60 lbs... one was not hit too bad (if any hit with a 44 mag can be considered not "too bad") I hope it made it home to the owner.
lazs
while I tend to agree with ya Lazs,the part about the owners being shot,also that a bad dog should be the owners responcability and the owner should be made to pay heavily in the event of a bite.
I would ask you to show me any case where a Stafforshire Bull Terrier has bitten unprovoked.
A recent study on dog aggression place kids and dogs together in an effort to see the root cause of dog bites.There was 1 breed of dog that the children were asked to not be so rough with,the Staffy bull,it appeared that the dogs were being hurt yet were so tolerent of the treatment the kids inflicted on them that the researchers asked the kids to not play so rough with them.
So there we have a case of the dog willing to put up with strangers mistreating them.The only fault that these "type" of dogs have is their williness to please their owners,at all cost,this has been manipulated,by their owners,and is the reason we have a problem with these breeds.
As I've said,I have 30 years of breeding staffy bulls and english bullterriers,so I think I know abit about them.
If we get rid of these breeds,another breed will be used and we'll hear about them. The person who wants an aggressive dog will always be able to find one.
Look at Italy,they started baning breeds,now they have 107 breeds banned,the corgi and border collie are on the list.
It only makes sense to make the owners responsible because as I said before all pups start out the same,it's the owner that makes them a problem or not.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Jackal, does the Hunt Co. S.O. respond to the discharge of a firearm in a residential area?
I know that in Southern California, if you pot a dog within city limits, You can expect that if it's reported, that they will be there in quick response mode (Thinking it's a person that got shot) and will not be in a good mood.
A friend of mine down the street where I grew up shot a dog on his property. 15 min. later his house was surrounded by Sheriff's cars. I did not know what happened right when they showed up, but he was kinda angry at being disarmed and sat down by the S.O.'s. The dog was one that had been a general pest in the neighborhood, scattering trash all over people's lawns, and crapping all over their lawns, etc.
I also remember him getting in a heated argument with the dog's owner over the whole thing. But it was 20 years' ago, and I don't remember all the details.
It is still legal even within city limits to shoot a dangerous animal in Cali. Some police may not be aware of this though.
Case in point, a friend of mine had a neighbor with 2 pits, both Aggressive. The owner your typical ******* pit owner. The dogs get out of the yard alot.
One day they jump the fence into my friend’s yard and kill their Rotty and mangle their lab.
The police come and do nothing. As does animal services.
The next time it happens. My friend shoots one and his neighbor the other.
One lives.
The cops come and freak out, take the firearms and threaten arrest.
In the end no charges were filed and my friend got his firearms back. The neighbor now keeps the live one firmly locked up.
I am a dog person and have been around pits that didn't scare me and a few that did. It is really 99% the owner that is the issue.
I also love labs, and I have seen labs that you could not get anywhere near unless the owner was there or it would attack you. More then one like that in fact.
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Yeah, they are just loving dogs, from the news today:
Pit Bull Attacks Deputy, third Pit Bull attack this month (http://www.twincities.com/ci_6929369?source=rss)
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Dogs can and are bred to be predisposed to certain behaviors.
Labs have been bred to retrieve. Dogs from well bred retriever lines have this trait. It can be shaped and sharpened with training, but the urge to retrieve is inborn.
The same thing can be said of many, many breeds with various traits.
If you take a breed and selectively breed it for aggression and fighting, you will, after some generations, have a line that carries these traits innately.
By the same token you can take that same breed and selectively breed for a calm gentle nature and eventually get there.
I think what has happened with the fighting dogs is that further back in their history, they were bred to be normal human companions. Petey of the Little Rascals, Stubby the war hero, along with Weela, Bogart and Dixie are examples of Pit Bulls that were fine human companions.
Unfortunately, the fate of these breeds rests in the hands of human beings. As we all know, human beings are capable of amazingly stupid activites. Ruining a breed is just one of those; it happened before, it's happening now and it will happen in the future.
The Irish Setter is a prime example. There was a time when that breed was generally accepted as a fine, fine sporting breed. However, they got popular with the wrong people and became fashion accessories. Now, they are generally regarded as worthless for any sort of work. They are too stupid, their size and coat have been altered to be pretty useless for their former work...they were ruined.
The good news? Dedicated people can restore breeds. A small group has begun to salvage the Irish Setter. To differentiate from the ruined breed, this group calls their dogs Red Setters. It is what the old Irish was and should be.
So don't give up hope on Pits. They just need to be rescued from those that would destroy them.
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I'm doing my best to train one of my wife's Chihuahuas to be an attack dog. The best I've gotten so far is a nipped heel. No blood. :(
I gave up on the other one, she never barks at anyone and is even afraid to leave the yard.
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I have not given up on any breed... I ask for no bans.
It is simply like the race thread... I look at what is happening not at 16 peoples feelings as to why it is.
When a child is mauled or killed it doesn't matter what your feelings about "why" are.
I say that the owner needs to be mauled. I say that if the child is killed the owner needs to be put in a pit with attack dogs till he is dead.
If what you all say is true and that the poor pit bull is a "victim" of... the owner? the press? whatever... then... with the new stiffer lazs penalties... the owners will shape up pronto and the press won't have the poor,docile and missunderstood pit bull to pick on anymore.
pragmatic wins out over feelings every time.
lazs
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It is the same old story of the lack of personal responsibility and accountability.
Pit bulls, drunk drivers, bank robbers, pederasts, crooked politicians....... the answer is always the same: responsibility and accountability.
I was just pointing out that it isn't the fault of the breed. I imagine that with careful selective breeding one could rather easily develop a line of calm, mild mannered, loving Pit Bulls. That's just not where most human owners want to take the breed though.
Responsiblity and Accountability. It's a human thing not a breed thing.
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People want to ban guns, and most of us disagree with that idea. But, what if there was a handgun that had a distinct tendancy to blow up when used, severely injuring or killing the shooter or someone around him. Would you want that particular handgun banned? I would.
Same goes for dogs. I don't want dogs banned, but the Pit Bull breed has a very well documented tendancy to attack unprovoked. I think that breed does not need to exist in society.
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I think that breed needs to rescued. A dedicated group needs to develop a genetic line that accurately reflects what the pit bull was 100 years ago. It can be done.
Those that breed this dog for aggression should be deterred. The only way you do that is to remove the reward for breeding successful aggressive fighting dogs. Therein lies the problem.