Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunslinger on September 15, 2007, 06:54:42 PM
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has anyone noticed the skyrocketing price of milk. I remember a few years ago when milk was about 2-3$ a gallon. Now it's between 4-5$. This is for that standard vitamin D or 2% crap too. Maybe it's just a local thing, maybe it's a Texas thing. I don't know but as much as my kids go through the crap it's starting to get expensive and it's only projected (kids wise) to get worse.
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As long as gasoline is cheaper than milk, we are A - O K !
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Due to rising oil prices, demand for Ethanol is skyrocketing. Ethanol plants are popping up all over.
A major substrate used for the ethanol producing yeast is corn syrup. Corn syrup prices are rising due to increased demand.
You need corn to make corn syrup. Therefore, the demand for corn is rising, making the price of this staple crop increase quite significantly as well.
Dairy cattle are often fed with corn . . . price of feed rises, the farmers have to make up the cost by raising their prices.
So, gas and milk prices are not necessarily unrelated. ;)
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scumbag speculators are now trading corn futures as an energy commodity... they are wrecking our economy and could care less as long as they cash in.... also explains our 300% rise in gas prices in 7 years. pure trash.
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Numbers dude nailed it. The combination of rising feed and transportation have been passed along to the consumer.
Corn is one of the worst plants to make ethanol from, but tell that to A-D-M.
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Hmmm I remember Milk at 0.19 cents a Gallon in the early '60's.
There was also a Dairy Farmer stike in '62... that hurt alotta folks with youngins. We had to beg for milk for my baby brother at the Fire Station.
Giving away my age now...
I always wanted to be a Fireman...
Mac
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Originally posted by TalonX
As long as gasoline is cheaper than milk, we are A - O K !
Thats great until you are going through a gallon every two days because you have kids.
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down with big dairy, no blood for milk. :furious
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I personally am a milk addict and go through 4 or 5 gallons a week. So yea the prices are hurting a bit, but it's freakin' milk man! Look at the pic...fish like milk too.
(http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/9287/maadv01tx3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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C(Sea)Bass<---- No Child Left Behind.
Mac
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Originally posted by C(Sea)Bass
I personally am a milk addict and go through 4 or 5 gallons a week. [/URL]
A freaking milk-head.
No doubt he has the tell-tale moustash and can be found begging for quarters down at the campus canteen so that he can score another gallon. Probably breaks into dorm rooms leaving behind expensive TVs and computers but draining every last drop of milk from each fridge.
;)
Seriously though...too much of anything is bad...and that is alot of milk. Mind you, you are pretty young so it is probably okay now. When you get older you gotta watch it though.
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Its all skim milk though, that way I don't become a fatty. Plus it tastes better.
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This was discussed earlier here. It seems some folks said corn wasn't the primary source of ethanol and that the suppliers would be using some kind of grass for it. Yeah right.
It's the old basic beans v s bullets economics 101 lesson back again. Limited resources dictate limitations in changes in the economy and some part will suffer if the situation is not balanced. It already hit Mexico not it's our turn. Milk won't be the only thing affected by the increased cost of corn.
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Originally posted by C(Sea)Bass
Its all skim milk though, that way I don't become a fatty. Plus it tastes better.
Dude...it is Saturday night. Why aren't you in a bar somewhere?
You are sitting at your computer discussing the price of milk!
Go get laid! That's an order!
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Originally posted by Curval
Dude...it is Saturday night. Why aren't you in a bar somewhere?
You are sitting at your computer discussing the price of milk!
Go get laid! That's an order!
What Curval said! Leave the interwebs for us married guys that only dream of getting laid after roughly 5 years of marriage!
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here where I live gas is about $3 a gallon.
get ready for this!
MILK IS $6 FOR ONE IMPERIAL GALLON!
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Originally posted by Curval
Dude...it is Saturday night. Why aren't you in a bar somewhere?
You are sitting at your computer discussing the price of milk!
Go get laid! That's an order!
I can't go to bars, im under age. Im here because I can barely move...damn illness cold, flu, avain virus, something.
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Originally posted by C(Sea)Bass
I can't go to bars, im under age. Im here because I can barely move...damn illness cold, flu, avain virus, something.
dont you mean "damn fatness"? :rofl :rolleyes: :p
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Originally posted by Wes14
dont you mean "damn fatness"? :rofl :rolleyes: :p
no your girlfriend left:p
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Originally posted by C(Sea)Bass
no your girlfriend left:p
:rofl nope my avatar is still here!
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Originally posted by Maverick
This was discussed earlier here. It seems some folks said corn wasn't the primary source of ethanol and that the suppliers would be using some kind of grass for it. Yeah right.
It's the old basic beans v s bullets economics 101 lesson back again. Limited resources dictate limitations in changes in the economy and some part will suffer if the situation is not balanced. It already hit Mexico not it's our turn. Milk won't be the only thing affected by the increased cost of corn.
No, I said they SHOULD be using switchgrass instead of corn. It gives over 1000 gallons of ethanol per acre. Corn gives 328 gpa. Cattle do not eat switchgrass for feed. Humans do not eat switchgrass. Archer-Daniels-Midland does not control the switchgrass market. Switchgrass has no lobbyists in Washington.
You do the math.
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Originally posted by rpm
No, I said they SHOULD be using switchgrass instead of corn. It gives over 1000 gallons of ethanol per acre. Corn gives 328 gpa. Cattle do not eat switchgrass for feed. Humans do not eat switchgrass. Archer-Daniels-Midland does not control the switchgrass market. Switchgrass has no lobbyists in Washington.
You do the math.
1+1= waffles
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It's more like...
4(corn) + 1(ADM) = $$$
1(ADM) + 3(politicians)= $$$ campaign donations
2(switchgrass) + 1 (ADM)= $0
2(switchgrass) + 3(politicians)= $0 campaign donations
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Originally posted by rpm
It's more like...
4(corn) + 1(ADM) = $$$
1(ADM) + 3(politicians)= $$$ campaign donations
2(switchgrass) + 1 (ADM)= $0
2(switchgrass) + 3(politicians)= $0 campaign donations
my calculator just says "error"
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That's because politicians are involved.
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I read somewhere that milk prices were regulated. They deregulated and the price is now as it should be.
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its says page 2 but there is nothing here? wtf?
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Originally posted by C(Sea)Bass
its says page 2 but there is nothing here? wtf?
:huh
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Originally posted by Wes14
:huh
i clicked the little 2 and all that showed was the green reply button and bar
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lay off the skim milk...
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Originally posted by rpm
lay off the skim milk...
butt its yummy.
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Originally posted by C(dum)Bass
its says page 2 but there is nothing here? wtf?
hit refresh
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Originally posted by C(Sea)Bass
butt its yummy.
Butt yummy?:eek:
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Originally posted by rpm
Butt yummy?:eek:
how would you know?:noid :t :O :furious :rofl :aok :huh :cry :lol
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Just don't touch the Junction Grass cuz that's how we determine a cars speed near here.
"I swear Officer I wasn't going any more than 60 MPH as to how far that Junction Grass was bowed down."
Works in Court!
:D
Mac
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Originally posted by rpm
No, I said they SHOULD be using switchgrass instead of corn. It gives over 1000 gallons of ethanol per acre. Corn gives 328 gpa. Cattle do not eat switchgrass for feed. Humans do not eat switchgrass. Archer-Daniels-Midland does not control the switchgrass market. Switchgrass has no lobbyists in Washington.
You do the math.
So no one controls the market, yet your source for ethanol isn't being used. Could it be that perhaps your opinion regarding it might not be correct or believed by those in agriculture? Even if they did switch you still have the amount of arable land for production of each item and limited means of producing it. Basic economics states that producers will provide that which is most profitable for them to provide. They already have the equipment, land and seed for corn. Who has the materials and ethanol production equipment for grass? Who will buy the grass for ethanol? Is anyone buying it now?
As soon as you start to divert agricultural resources from food and silage production the price of food and anything related to it will go up. That has already been demonstrated to be true. It's not just the price of milk or popcorn going up it's everything that has anything to do with corn or corn products. It has a ripple effect that spreads outward and we are seeing it now.
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it's scary to think that just about everything has "high fructose corn syrup" in it.
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Mav, it's not just my opinion. It's fact.
link (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Business/story?id=1566784)
Ethanol as a fuel is nothing new. Dan Sperling, a professor at the University of California at Davis and director of its Institute of Transportation Studies, noted that even early Model T Fords used ethanol, and it's an ingredient in beer and wine.
Most ethanol produced in America is made from corn -- a less-efficient material than switchgrass -- but corn producers are supported by a large lobby and huge government subsidies. There is no similar lobby or investment for grass or wood.
"When you make ethanol from corn, for every gallon of fuel you get, you put in about seven-tenths of a gallon of fossil energy, oil or natural gas," he said. "That's only a small improvement in terms of greenhouse gases."
On the other hand, he said, "ethanol from cellulose [like switchgrass] is a great energy strategy because for every gallon of ethanol, a tiny amount of fossil material [is used.] There's a dramatic reduction in greenhouse gases, so from an energy perspective it's far superior."
"We've known this for a long time," Sperling said. "Why has nothing happened? Part of it is we do need more R and D [research and development], but I think what we really need is a commitment on the industry and business side to invest."
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Take heart RPM... Your and President Bush's dreams are beginning to take root.
source (http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/18227/)
This month, (Feb 2007) Celunol, based in Cambridge, MA, broke ground on an ethanol plant in Louisiana that will be able to produce 1.4 million gallons of the fuel (Cellulosic ethanol) each year starting in 2008. Other companies are moving forward as well with plans to build plants.
must be a personal quandry to agree with GW though
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Since I'm from the 'real' dairy state, I can tell you about the mass number dairy farmers who have sold they cows because of low milk prices the last 15 years. But this is just one of the many factors that hurt the individual farms vs corporate farms.
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RPM,
The fact is that the ethanol is being made from corn. That is causing the price of everything related to corn to rise.
The grass situation might be just dandy, on paper, but the reality is that it's corn being used.
A second reality is that there is no way that ethanol can replace oil for transportation uses.
We need a seperate solution, not a stop gap.
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RPM, you are missing a couple of important facts. The captial expenditure for making a cellulose based fermentation system is more than making a sugar based fermentation system. For those companies trying to take advantage of the current political/social/economic environment, it makes more financial sense to build a more traditional sugar fermentation-based system. As corn syrup / sugar prices continue to rise, this will eventually change, but in the meantime all the related economics suffer.
Second, the cellulose based fermentation systems that are being built are using corn cellulose since it is an existing by-product of established agricultural infrastructure. That is, we already have corn cellulose as a waste product of corn starch / corn sugar production. There is no "switchgrass agricultural infratructure." To take advantage of switchgrass, you need to create the infrastructure first. So, again, for those trying to make a quick buck before this particular bubble bursts, it makes more economic sense to use corn cellulose in these new cellulose plants.
I agree that the switchgrass option looks very attractive from an environmental standpoint. But the current economics don't make it an attractive option, with or without government meddling. I do agree, however, that the more meddling government does, the more likely it is for the process to be slowed down.
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Originally posted by E25280
Second, the cellulose based fermentation systems that are being built are using corn cellulose since it is an existing by-product of established agricultural infrastructure. That is, we already have corn cellulose as a waste product of corn starch / corn sugar production.
There's the answer right there. Let corn be corn (to make corn starch, corn sugar, corn for feed, etc) and use the waste product of corn production in the cellulose based fermentation systems.
The point being that we should not be tripping over ourselves making ethanol from corn alone. Doing so affects the price of too many things that depend on corn itself, not to mention the ethanol yield from corn.
It seems to me that they could come up with a fermentation system that works with any cellulose product. This way the waste from corn production along with switchgrass or whatever could be used. Switchgrass could be grown on tracts of land that would otherwise be considered undesireable for other crops and it is not "needed" by other things (for feed, in food, etc.)
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<---doesnt drink milk.
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Mav, I totally agree we need a different fuel source. Unfortunately that is way down the road. Cellulose methanol is a stop-gap. But, doesn't it make sense to make methanol from the most effective (and least intrusive) crop available?
Methanol will never totally replace gasoline, but every gallon of methanol is one less gallon of gasoline. If we could get up to 20-30% methanol usage it would help stretch what resources we have. Or, we could just continue to suckle at the Exxon/Mobil teat and ignore alternate energy sources completely.
BTW, I have no problems agreeing with Bush. It just does'nt happen very often.
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It's called Inflation.
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Originally posted by rpm
Mav, I totally agree we need a different fuel source. Unfortunately that is way down the road. Cellulose methanol is a stop-gap. But, doesn't it make sense to make methanol from the most effective (and least intrusive) crop available?
Methanol will never totally replace gasoline, but every gallon of methanol is one less gallon of gasoline. If we could get up to 20-30% methanol usage it would help stretch what resources we have. Or, we could just continue to suckle at the Exxon/Mobil teat and ignore alternate energy sources completely.
BTW, I have no problems agreeing with Bush. It just does'nt happen very often.
Every TWO gallons of methanol is ONE less gallon of gasoline. Same applies to ethanol.
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Oh, and the price of milk is as much due to price supports and subsidies as anything.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Thats great until you are going through a gallon every two days because you have kids.
Yup... I have 4 little milk drinkers and my wife and I both like milk. The kids go thru a gallon of whole milk every day and they are only 19 months old so it's just going to get worse. Wife and I go thru almost a gallon of skim/day. It's ironic that milk is almost twice as expesive as gas.
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I'll give you the farmers perspective on this. Well, mine...,,,trust me :D
1. Demand for dairy products has grown due to more buying potential of many growing countries, - notably the far east.
2. Increased demand for land due to changed consumer habits. You will need many times more land to produce each calory as meat rather than milk, and yet many times more for milk rather than a calorie of grain energy.
3. Crops in very vital parts of the world production of Dairy and as well meat have been on the lower side recently. Climate issues.
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This is something I recently took a look at and here are some quotes from a guy at The American Coalition for Ethanol (Lamberty) and by a biodiesel producer (Friedman).
"A cow will eat about 14 pounds of corn a day and give about 6 or 7 gallons of milk, and the cost of the corn that cow eats has gone from about eight to sixteen cents," said Lamberty. "That certainly isn’t an excuse for milk prices to go up $1.25. I think there’s some people in some of the channels upstream from the guys actually using the corn who are taking advantage of this, and if they were in the oil industry they’d be called gougers. Last year was a pretty bad year for corn, and that probably had more impact on what’s happening with prices than ethanol. If you look at what could happen this year, we can see two billion bushels more of corn this year translating into almost 5.6 billion gallons of ethanol. So the increase in corn this year would almost supply all of the ethanol we’re going to make this year."
The impact of commodity speculation -- a hot topic in relative to crude and refined product -- is also called into question.“There is plenty of soy to go around, though I don’t know what the issue is for corn,” Friedman said. "But these costs we’re experiencing now -- seeing 33, 34 cents versus 22 cents on the CBOT -- I cannot figure it out except that people are probably speculating."
Obviously they have an industry perspective on food-to-fuel, but I think the points are valid. Speculators are also likely at the heart of various high petroleum prices and volatility issues. A lot of focus is being put on that now, especially over-the-counter, ICE, etc.
Charon