Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on September 16, 2007, 05:15:21 PM
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if you see what happens to bombers that venture near a 163 base you know why this is needed. the plane will be seen in hoards everytime a target gets within range of its base.
thi sis fun for the 163 pilot but for anyone flying anything else its a very lame experience.
its fine having them in game but thei rarity should be reflected in their perk price to keep them from being the only plane you see in a certain area.
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I think the reason the 262 is more expensive is because it has longer range than the 163, is slower so it can aim better and get more shots in, and was more masses produced (i think).
I always have a great time when our HQ raid gets jumped by 163s. Fun tryin to shoot those pesky lil flies down. I wouldn't mind a HQ raid getting hit by 109's and 190's only every once in a while.
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163 is available at one base, Me 262 at every base and can go everywhere. No reason to perk 163 more than a 262. If I go close to an enemy HQ, I know what to expect (and that's the reason why I do rarely go there ;))
Overall, the 163 is one of the rarest plane in this game, having 0.2 to 0.4 % of all kills only each tour. (Last tour rank #59 of all kills by planes)
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The 163 has an amazing range if you fly it right.
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I like the 163 perkies the way they are now. Though it shouldn't matter. I can't hit crap with the guns and always crash the darn things into the bombers. I can't seem to pull out in time. (** Beavis dub in ** "ha ha He said PULL OUT" ** end Beavis dub)
So, what happened, did you HQ milkrun get intercepted? If you got a collision message, it was me :D
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I think the 163 is limited by the base from which it can fly.
I agree, if it were available everywhere, it should be more perks.
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In my opinion the 163 is ok as is. One base to use plus limited flight time and ENY'ed.
Slightly off topic..... it would be interesting to know where they flew from and how many actually went bang when the fuse was lit, so's to speak.
Could someone enlighten us ?
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Originally posted by LYNX
Slightly off topic..... it would be interesting to know where they flew from and how many actually went bang when the fuse was lit, so's to speak.
Could someone enlighten us ?
Sure wish that would happen to you now and then. Bastige:D
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Originally posted by LYNX
In my opinion the 163 is ok as is. One base to use plus limited flight time and ENY'ed.
Slightly off topic..... it would be interesting to know where they flew from and how many actually went bang when the fuse was lit, so's to speak.
Could someone enlighten us ?
They didn't ever go bang, nor were any pilots melted.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.walker6/komet/flight/flight1.htm
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The 163 is already one of the rarest planes in the game.
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Originally posted by LYNX
In my opinion the 163 is ok as is. One base to use plus limited flight time and ENY'ed.
Slightly off topic..... it would be interesting to know where they flew from and how many actually went bang when the fuse was lit, so's to speak.
Could someone enlighten us ?
lot of movies about me163 on google video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=892078412446403777&q=me+163&total=280&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)
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here's a fun one, I like that they got the rocket in there.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=892078412446403777&q=me+163&total=280&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
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Make 163 expensive pls, about 1.5-2 time of 262 price. Because they can kill any buffs attacking hq very fast, and because after they were added to game 2 major changes to gameplay were made.
1) Fuel is hard to kill and can be killed to 75% only, so you can't prevent the 163 use this way.
2) Fields which has 163 were made uncapturable, so you can't stop them spawning or take control of them.
Please balance use of 163 by making them cost lot of perks, or use some other way of restricting their use (like making some easy to be destroyed object at field with "special" fuel, killing which will stop 163 being used).
HQ are useless at the moment as targets, and buff attacking HQ was very great fun for both attackers and defenders before. Balance it back to the game pls.
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I think it's fine as it is but ok... perk it higher and make it available everywhere... I LOVE flying 163s.
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Originally posted by Fariz
HQ are useless at the moment as targets, and buff attacking HQ was very great fun for both attackers and defenders before. Balance it back to the game pls.
Just tonight there was a big rook attack on Knight HQ wich actually was able to reach it's target despite a warning time of (at least) 30mins and numerous defenders including many 163's. They could have actually killed HQ if their bombing skills would not have been much worse than their mission planning skills ;)
There is even one map in the rotation were 163's are not even enabled at all - I guess because of very few and quite close fields on that map.
And for the "good old times": When we still had large maps, we didn't see more HQ raids at all. Most of the time HQ's were waaay behind the front lines, few people actually bothered to fly through 5-8 sectors of enemy territory. HQ's are much easier reachable today.
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Having just recently been a Lancaster Pilot on an HQ raid this weekend. I can accurately say that if your bombers are being torn up by a jet-jock, then it is either 1 of 2 things.
1: He's using proper tactics and attacking your blindspots all the time. In which case, it doesn't matter if he has a Pony, Jug, 163, 262, 190A8, Tempest, Lala, Spixteen, whatever. If he's using it right there isn't alot you can do. Except bob and weave.
Or.
2: Your bomber gunnery needs alot of work. I killed 2 Me-262's and smoked a third that later crashed the other day on our return trip from the HQ raid. And I suck at bomber gunnery. Here's the vid clip of the action:
*Edit* Disregard for the moment, the vid isn't working for some odd reason, will fix soon.
Now I'll admit... those 262's made some really poor choices... but still...
163's shouldn't be mega-perked just because they are better natural bomber killers, or because there were so few in actual existence.
It really all comes down to the pilot.
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on a side note, I saw a raid coming in to HQ and I upped a Komet. I climbed above and in front of the group and attacked head-on the first 3 boxes killing 3, I immeled back and came in on high 9-10 and 2-3 and finished them off. I landed 7, but what was beautiful about it was the last set I came in high 4-5 and saw the cannons tearing up the right wing. I go on google later and catch video of a Komet hitting exactly as I did earlier in the day. The hits looked just like the film and so did the ROF. It was funny how accurate it all looked from the game to the actual gun cam footage!
:aok
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163's are fun. I wish there's be more HQ raids when I was logged in. very rarely do I get to use the Komet.
If you have never flown one before... I suggest practicing offline or you will b ewasting perkies trying to land.
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Originally posted by Hoffman
Now I'll admit... those 262's made some really poor choices... but still...
163's shouldn't be mega-perked just because they are better natural bomber killers, or because there were so few in actual existence.
It really all comes down to the pilot.
For the time it takes 262 to get to bombers alt, you can get there 3 163s for the same price. This is what makes it unbalanced. It takes buffs half an hour to get to 20k and to HQ, and 3 minutes for 163 to kill it.
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Limit the # available to be in the air @ 1 time say 5 and disable refueling/rearming on rearm pads for 163s.
shouldnt be able to base hop it to front lines.
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Originally posted by Lusche
And for the "good old times": When we still had large maps, we didn't see more HQ raids at all. Most of the time HQ's were waaay behind the front lines, few people actually bothered to fly through 5-8 sectors of enemy territory. HQ's are much easier reachable today.
In good old times you could see lot of buffs attacks against HQ, 10-15 each day for each side. HQ is not "much easier reachable today".
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Originally posted by Fariz
If you joined game in 2005 you have no idea about good old time. You have a slight idea about mediocre recent time. In good old time we used to see 10-15 buffs HQ attacks every day for each side.
My first short stint in this game was back in 2000 :aok
(And btw, this BBS archives do prove that there was indeed never a "good old time" at all. ;) )
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The 163 is fine the way it is. The plane is as rare as an HQ raid these days.
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What if you bomber guys just brought some escort fighters along? They won't be able to save you from the first pass, but will make the Komets burn precious fuel evading them. Once the 163s are out of fuel and RTB the fighters can make their lives miserable. Making the 163 pilots as frustrated as you are by losing their perks would be the best way to deal with them IMO. Better yet you can send the escorts to the 163 field ahead of time to prevent the rocket fighters from taking off.
If you attack the HQ without a good plan or unescorted you should expect to be gunned down. The cost to the defenders is just too high to allow the bombers to get through (losing dar is wicked annoying).
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Originally posted by Lusche
My first short stint in this game was back in 2000 :aok
(And btw, this BBS archives do prove that there was indeed never a "good old time" at all. ;) )
Depends what you need from the game. HQ was easier to kill, even a single buff could do it, that made people "blind" for some time, and made them unhappy. From the other hand, for other people it made game much more interesting because it was more to do in game than now. Attacking HQ, defending HQ, planning simultanious attacks on factories and HQ, killing strat at fields around HQ to stop it supply, planning deep field attacks to have base close to HQ to blind enemy and win etc.
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Originally posted by whels
Limit the # available to be in the air @ 1 time say 5 and disable refueling/rearming on rearm pads for 163s.
shouldnt be able to base hop it to front lines.
you can't taxi the Comet on rearming pad on the skid, if the landing gear is detatched, unless you have the patience to fly to next base like a goon under 250mph and keep it, taking off on manual cuz, on autopilot gets detatched
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Originally posted by Fariz
Depends what you need from the game. HQ was easier to kill, even a single buff could do it, that made people "blind" for some time, and made them unhappy. From the other hand, for other people it made game much more interesting because it was more to do in game than now. Attacking HQ, defending HQ, planning simultanious attacks on factories and HQ, killing strat at fields around HQ to stop it supply, planning deep field attacks to have base close to HQ to blind enemy and win etc.
You cant just whistle up fighter escorts. How many people in the MA are going to agree to fly a fighter for an hour and 1/2 on your tail while you climb to 20,000' and chug away to a strat far behind enemy lines?
From what i can see, in the MA, this kind of stuff never happens. Ive never seen such an organized war against strats. Usually Im the only one bombing them, or, very few others. I know cause I check them and watch them throughout game play.
The bottom line is nobody much cares about strats, including AH. I bomb them very little now, unless they are close.
I have no problem running against uber fighters. If you go that deep into enemy territory you should expect them, and, expect a short and exciting life. All I ask is if we do actually get thru to the strat make the bombing of it meaningful to game play. That and get rid of dar bars in empty sectors. As it is you can watch the slow progression of dar bars, and see everything that lights up near the bombers, finish your latest novel, cut the grass, and jump into you rocketship easily figuring out where the bombers are. All these dar bars force sticks to play in 10% of the map cause it makes no sense to fly outside of heavily traveled corridors.
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Originally posted by Fariz
In good old times you could see lot of buffs attacks against HQ, 10-15 each day for each side. HQ is not "much easier reachable today".
this is not the Comets fault, i've seen massive bombing attacks aproching HQ and 2-3 guys upping 163s to defend and others in C47s to prepare the resup even before was destroyed,The problem is the instant resuping, wich makes it a waste of time, imop HQ should stay down 15-30 min ,and only after to have resup option,
Me163s are ok, the way they are now,and the guys getting nailed by Comets shouldn't be in their range, anyway are parked on uncapturable bases, and the front line/maps are big enough to find a fight in other area
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
You cant just whistle up fighter escorts. How many people in the MA are going to agree to fly a fighter for an hour and 1/2 on your tail while you climb to 20,000' and chug away to a strat far behind enemy lines?
What we use to do was launch the bombers from back bases ... once they got alt, we would then launch the fighter escorts from mid-line bases and catch up to the bombers just before they got to target or were detected by radar ... so the fighters didn't have to fly the full length sorties as the bomber pilots ... actual time spent in the air to target by the fighters was around 15 minutes.
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Originally posted by Fariz
In good old times you could see lot of buffs attacks against HQ, 10-15 each day for each side. HQ is not "much easier reachable today".
HQ is 'much easier to reach today' because the maps are smaller.
The reason you see less raids is because of the amount of ord necessary to kill HQ, and the fact that it willbe resupplied before your bombers make their return flight home.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
That and get rid of dar bars in empty sectors. As it is you can watch the slow progression of dar bars, and see everything that lights up near the bombers, finish your latest novel, cut the grass, and jump into you rocketship easily figuring out where the bombers are. All these dar bars force sticks to play in 10% of the map cause it makes no sense to fly outside of heavily traveled corridors.
Have to agree with that. The darbars and flashing targets in the MA make it just like having all seeing radar.....defended by countless rockets. You really want to step up the gameplay a notch? Make it so routine high alt patrolls around the strat targets are a necessity.
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Originally posted by blkmgc
Make it so routine high alt patrolls around the strat targets are a necessity.
Just because they are a necessity, that doesn't mean that people would start to do that. Because it's boring as hell for most of them. And for a good reason. It hardly caters to the concept of having fun in a game if you have to do 1h patrol flights at 25K searching for a possible enemy attack that never happens. Players usually log in to have fun...
If you really like such "realistic" setups, there are many Special Events where such tactics have their place - most notably the upcoming "Der Grosse Schlag" Scenario.
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Has anyone noticed how incredibly agile 163's are on deck at low speed? REALLY hard to shake the salamanders, esp. if there are friendlies about
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Originally posted by Lusche
Just because they are a necessity, that doesn't mean that people would start to do that. Because it's boring as hell for most of them. And for a good reason. It hardly caters to the concept of having fun in a game if you have to do 1h patrol flights at 25K searching for a possible enemy attack that never happens. Players usually log in to have fun...
If you really like such "realistic" setups, there are many Special Events where such tactics have their place - most notably the upcoming "Der Grosse Schlag" Scenario.
The whole squad is already reg'd for DGS. Besides, we already did the route where we paid for a subscription in another sim just to fly for the events. Guess what, we dont fly there any longer.
Just because they are a necessity, that doesn't mean that people would start to do that.
Guess what, they start loosing thier strats they will. I know its not conducive to furball type gameplay, but how do you figgure that those of us who put the effort into planning and executing large scale hi alt missions should be subject to whats essentially all seeing radar when we do what we do. How about we turn on all seeing radar all together for a week or so and see how all the furball types like it having to fly on that side of the coin. I bet there would be much much more whining.
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Originally posted by Lusche
Just because they are a necessity, that doesn't mean that people would start to do that. Because it's boring as hell for most of them. And for a good reason. It hardly caters to the concept of having fun in a game if you have to do 1h patrol flights at 25K searching for a possible enemy attack that never happens. Players usually log in to have fun...
If you really like such "realistic" setups, there are many Special Events where such tactics have their place - most notably the upcoming "Der Grosse Schlag" Scenario.
Easily solved. Just double the points given for fighter sticks that shoot down bombers in strat sectors. Make the strats meaningful to bomb and you'll have twice the guys bombing them. Once the strats become vital to defend, vital to strike at, and the playing field leveled with the dar bars, you'll see more organized play and better gaming. As long as there is a nearby elevated airbase near a strat there will always be sticks in transit who will jump in to go after bombers.
As it is in the blue room today and tonight Ive seen all the strats at 100% all night, or nearly so. Because? Who cares right? Why bother climbing to 20,000' and bomb a target that doesn't matter? And if you go thru all that trouble you have the dar bars and blinking llights pointing the way for the enemy who can fight in a furball until he sees the strat light go off, land and jump into a jet near the strat, and then follow the bars and lights to the bombers. Whom are chugging away at 270 mph.
You dont even have to defend the start because it doesn't matter anyways and you can just jump the bombers on egress. The whole thing is just ridiculous. Most of all with the 163s and 262s normally nearby the strat clump.
Ive spent the whole night taking down radars at front line bases in my B-26s with 100 lb bombs. I figure that way I'm at least helping my team. Something I dont feel when Im hitting a strat.
Its funny but when I first starting playing I had no idea there were dar bars telling the enemy the progression of my attack. I did a lot of head scratching wondering how they knew I was there.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Easily solved. Just double the points given for fighter sticks that shoot down bombers in strat sectors.
Only a absolute minority of people is playing for points in this game. Especially not when flying fighters.
Many (not all) people do care about the number of kills they get, some strive for the WTG's of their countrymen, many are mostly interested in win-teh-war, some only want to make things boom.
If there were many people thinking about the points they get, you would not see that many ENY 5 planes ;)
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Originally posted by blkmgc
Guess what, they start loosing thier strats they will.
They won't.
This is not work. This is not real life. People play for various reasons and with highly diverse goals, but "fun" and "excitement" are the major ones. While it's fun for some people (me included) to do long anti buff missions at high alt's for the overwhelming majority it is not.
Who does really want's to do utterly boring defensive patrols when you even don't know if there will ever be an attack???
Gameplay is a matter of balance. Realism has to be balanced with playability.
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Of course nobody cares about points my friend. But they are the one reward of the game. When you think about it, in the big picture of life, none of the targets matter.
And I wouldnt expect anyone to spend an hour droning empty space on the off chance bombers are coming after a strat. But if the strats actually matter guys would at least find a way to make an effort to defend them. Most bombing missions towards strats are observed by sticks who aren't even concerned about the strat and whom are going about their normal business. if they put out a message "bombers at 11,10,9 IB to refinery" what percentage of people would even care the way the game is setup now?
The "fun" in playing this game is in shooting down the enemy and taking out targets. And right now its played on 10% of the map and in pretty narrow confines. Very few attack the strats, and very few attack the very few who do, because they simply dont matter. If they did have some importance then that would change and its my opinion the game would be even more fun.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
From what i can see, in the MA, this kind of stuff never happens.
This kind of warfare happened few years ago regularly. This is the reason why I consider current game strat as boring. Actually, it is not a strat anymore, because it is not more strategy warfare. Call it tact, because the way game works now only tactical targets (fields) are being attacked with the goal of winning reset.
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I dont mind the cost of the 163. A bunch of us did a B-24 HQ attack on TT map vs the knits and we downed something like 3-5 262s and 5 or more 163s. I personally landed 3 kills 2 of which were 163s and a P47.
163s can be a tough customer, but I just fly bombers up around 30K and by the time they reach me, the 163 nearly out of gas and more than likely have to ride up the 6 and get blasted at. :noid
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I'd like to see the strat system changed a bit to effect all bases.
For example:
Damaging a troop factory will effect the number of troops a goon or m3 can carry. 100% = 10 / 75% = 7 / 50%-0% = 5
Fuel factory 100% = 100% with dt's. / 75% = 100% no dts. / 50%-0% = 75%
Radar factory 100% = full radar / 75% = Radar vis from 25miles? to 18 miles/ 50%-0% radar vis 12 miles.
Or something along those lines.
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If you want to make 163s more scarce.....
Incorporate some true realism code into the 163.
Historically they had an extremely high instance of exploding on landing. It may not stop the casual "dweeb" from flying it anyway. But realistically most of those guys cant hit consistantly enough with the 30 mike-mikes to really be afraid of anyway. The score ho-s who can will be a little less likely to ruin their scores if the thing is 50% likely to blow up and kill them when they try to land it.
Not that I think this is likely but it was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw the subject.
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The issues with people making claims such as 50% of them exploding on landing are not only that they're generally false, but that so few were operated that a couple crashing skews the entire viewpoint.
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Originally posted by 2fly
Incorporate some true realism code into the 163.
Historically they had an extremely high instance of exploding on landing. It may not stop the casual "dweeb" from flying it anyway.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.walker6/komet/flight/flight1.htm
Not true. You whould have read the this whole thread. The above link was posted on the first page. It's a good read with info on the Me163 from a guy who actually flew it. He actually did crash-land a 163 and lived to tell the tale.
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Why does everyone want to make things EASIER in this game, bombing already takes almost no skill, and with the deathstar guns u are carrying, unlees u come up against anything but a experienced and ace pilot, u will probly kill them if your gunnery is the least bit accurate.
163s are there for a reason, to help a country defend what it has left and try to push thier line back forward.
It is designed that the farther u push towards the enemy HQ the harder things get, same thing in real life. U think if there was a war on USA soil that the closer they pushed toward washington DC or any other large base that the defenses wouldnt get harder?
Just learn how to kill 163s in bombers, then u will be lauphing at them;)
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Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
and with the deathstar guns u are carrying, unlees u come up against anything but a experienced and ace pilot, u will probly kill them if your gunnery is the least bit accurate.
All it takes is for someone to attack like the Germans did; 3,9,12; NOT low 6.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Has anyone noticed how incredibly agile 163's are on deck at low speed? REALLY hard to shake the salamanders, esp. if there are friendlies about
I use them in that role pretty often. They really are quite nimble furballers.
Low throttle to get to the fight, almost 0 throttle while fighting, then a hard climb and glide home can get you 3 sectors out with time to fight and rtb to the 163 base.
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Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
Why does everyone want to make things EASIER in this game, bombing already takes almost no skill, and with the deathstar guns u are carrying, unlees u come up against anything but a experienced and ace pilot, u will probly kill them if your gunnery is the least bit accurate.
163s are there for a reason, to help a country defend what it has left and try to push thier line back forward.
It is designed that the farther u push towards the enemy HQ the harder things get, same thing in real life. U think if there was a war on USA soil that the closer they pushed toward washington DC or any other large base that the defenses wouldnt get harder?
Just learn how to kill 163s in bombers, then u will be lauphing at them;)
Here I was thinking fighter plane take almost no skill, "course Im to polite to say such a thing".
Why is that that some fighter sticks think bombers take no skill? Is it because we dont chase each others tails around in furballs all night? I bet most guys who say this bomb very little, if at all, and when they do they take Lancs up to 4,000' and bomb a sector away.
Your never going to laugh at a guy like Lusche in a 163. You might get lucky and shoot him down but you'll never laugh at him. They didnt laugh at them in '44 either.
Who was saying they wanted things "easier" anyways? Vis-a-Vis fighters?? All I want is for the strats to actually mean somthing and get rid of the dar bars in the sectors without targets in them.
<------------- skill'less bomber stick:(
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PROBLEM:
One base of 163 use...to defend the HQ.
Bomber jocks whine cuz they take 45 minutes just to get to 20-25K and another 45 to get to HQ.....and it all goes to crap in 3 minutes.
SOLUTION:
Don't spend an hour and a half flying after points you think are easy.
Or, learn how to shoot those guns.
Either, or.
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Originally posted by MORAY37
PROBLEM:
One base of 163 use...to defend the HQ.
Bomber jocks whine cuz they take 45 minutes just to get to 20-25K and another 45 to get to HQ.....and it all goes to crap in 3 minutes.
SOLUTION:
Don't spend an hour and a half flying after points you think are easy.
Or, learn how to shoot those guns.
Either, or.
Maybe I missed something but whos whining? There are some notorious whiners among fighter sticks when we shoot them down with our bombers. They snivel and cry about our 260 mph machines being death stars and act as if the guns shoot themselves.
Waaaa, waaaaa, waaaa.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Maybe I missed something but whos whining? There are some notorious whiners among fighter sticks when we shoot them down with our bombers. They snivel and cry about our 260 mph machines being death stars and act as if the guns shoot themselves.
Waaaa, waaaaa, waaaa.
Lol... difference is, I'm not whining. I don't mine points at HQ either. Everything that is novel in this game, idiots try to take out.
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Originally posted by MORAY37
Lol... difference is, I'm not whining. I don't mine points at HQ either. Everything that is novel in this game, idiots try to take out.
I still dont understand what your saying. Im in a bomber squad, the 484'th, and we never flew against HQ, nor do we whine if we get shot down. In fact we shoot down fighters all the time. Nor have I ever heard another real bomber stick do so. Nor do we care about points.
Fighters have it easy. If they get hit the slightest bit they can run to the nearest base and score their kills. Which they do even if slightly damaged. They can land their kills, jump right into another brand new fighter, and off they go after the bombers again.
A bomber is only a death star if your stupid enough to climb up its 6 at or near the same altitude. Even then we have only so many bullets and are often far behind enemy lines.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
You cant just whistle up fighter escorts. How many people in the MA are going to agree to fly a fighter for an hour and 1/2 on your tail while you climb to 20,000' and chug away to a strat far behind enemy lines?
From what i can see, in the MA, this kind of stuff never happens. Ive never seen such an organized war against strats. Usually Im the only one bombing them, or, very few others. I know cause I check them and watch them throughout game play.
The bottom line is nobody much cares about strats, including AH. I bomb them very little now, unless they are close.
I have no problem running against uber fighters. If you go that deep into enemy territory you should expect them, and, expect a short and exciting life. All I ask is if we do actually get thru to the strat make the bombing of it meaningful to game play. That and get rid of dar bars in empty sectors. As it is you can watch the slow progression of dar bars, and see everything that lights up near the bombers, finish your latest novel, cut the grass, and jump into you rocketship easily figuring out where the bombers are. All these dar bars force sticks to play in 10% of the map cause it makes no sense to fly outside of heavily traveled corridors.
negatory... my squad AA does HQ raid's quite frequently now, it's massive fun shooting down 163s and numerous other aircraft
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Originally posted by MjTalon
negatory... my squad AA does HQ raid's quite frequently now, it's massive fun shooting down 163s and numerous other aircraft
I meant I myself have never flown them with my squad. No doubt its great fun, I have just never done it. And I'll bet none of your sticks whine if they get shot down either.
Theres a difference between the kinda guy who flys bombers in a squad and someone who jumps into an occasional Lanc and bombs an airfield from 2,000'. The problem in this thread is a few have deliberately stereotyped bomber sticks. I have met a few bomber sticks who are tremendously skilled in this game.