Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Jackal1 on September 17, 2007, 04:56:31 AM
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So.....exactly what is being asked for? Surely not military action of any kind. :)
I`m sure the engineers , well diggers, road builders and medical team will do the trick....right?
If not I would have thought the torch would have ended the matter.
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Protests urge swift Darfur action
By D'ARCY DORAN, Associated Press Writer Sun Sep 16, 11:13 PM ET
LONDON - Protesters held demonstrations in several countries on Sunday to urge world leaders and the U.N. General Assembly to work harder to end the crisis in Darfur.
Hundreds of activists rallied in London, many donning black blindfolds to symbolize the international community's failure to act since vowing to stop atrocities in Darfur two years ago.
Demonstrators in Rome wore white T-shirts with a bloodstained hand on the front and marched to the central Piazza Farnese. The protesters carried a peace torch, which they said was lit in Chad, where hundreds of thousands from Darfur now live in refugee camps.
Organizers planned protests in more than 30 countries, including Australia, Egypt, Germany, Japan, Mongolia, Nigeria, South Africa and the United States. They said the international community had become complacent since the U.N. Security Council approved plans on July 31 for a 26,000-strong peacekeeping force for the vast, war-battered region in western Sudan.
The deployment of the joint African Union-U.N. peacekeeping force faces delays, however, due to a lack of aviation, transport and logistics units, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has said.
More than 200,000 people have died and 2.5 million have been uprooted since ethnic African rebels took up arms against the Arab-dominated Sudanese government in 2003, accusing it of decades of neglect. Sudan's government is accused of retaliating by unleashing a militia of Arab nomads known as the janjaweed a charge it denies.
Activists say Darfur's violence is increasing, and they are demanding the peacekeeping force be deployed swiftly.
"The world has acknowledged the atrocities in Darfur. And its leaders have promised to end them. Now they must fulfill that promise," said Colleen Connors from Globe for Darfur, a coalition of aid groups working in Darfur.
Britain and China pledged new support Sunday for the hybrid peacekeeping force.
Britain would likely provide technical support for peacekeepers, as well as additional support for the African countries contributing to the force, said Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who helped push the British-French resolution on Darfur through the U.N. Security Council.
Beijing, which is trying to counter criticism that it is reluctant to support international intervention in Darfur, said it would send 315 people.
The Chinese group comprised of Chinese engineer platoons, a well-digging platoon, and a field hospital team will build roads, bridges and dig wells before the larger U.N.-AU force arrives, China's Defense Ministry said, according to state media.
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Quick! Just do something! I don't know what, but do something! I don't have any good ideas to propose, but that's what I pay you for! I went to college for a year and a half, so I know we need to do something about this! Damnit! You suck for not doing anything!
Activism without coherent and sane advocacy doesn't get us anywhere.
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nuke em
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Beijing, which is trying to counter criticism that it is reluctant to support international intervention in Darfur, said it would send 315 people.
The Chinese group comprised of Chinese engineer platoons, a well-digging platoon, and a field hospital team will build roads, bridges and dig wells before the larger U.N.-AU force arrives, China's Defense Ministry said, according to state media.
And it stoped nothing.
The world will do nothing.
The only way to stop this is a total takeover of the country.
And when they world leaves they will start killing all over again.
No one can stop it.
No one ever has.
No one ever will.
Try to help? Send someone to help with food, med care?
It will stop nothing.
:cry
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Short of sterilization or a mass homoectomomy they will always be that way.
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is it too late to bring back European colonialism?
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France and Germany aren't doing much right now so they should be able to spear head the UN action to save Darfur. They can flip a coin o see who is in charge or alternate days. It's a time for them to do something instead of just adding hot air to the problem.
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I wonder if the U.N. has asked General Dallaire to come out of retirement for this.
I can bet on his answer. :)
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Originally posted by Pooh21
nuke em
Seconded.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
I wonder if the U.N. has asked General Dallaire to come out of retirement for this.
I can bet on his answer. :)
Actually it's this guy that has the job..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6998279.stm
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Originally posted by crockett
Actually it's this guy that has the job..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6998279.stm
I knew I should have hung the sarcasm tag on that last one. :rofl
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The problem cannot be solved with "Peacekeeping" troops.
You cannot win a war without waging total war.
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I think its important that we realize that we are dealing with real people here. Think about the innocent who have to live through this.
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Hillary could go over and tell them about her plans for National Healthcare for all Dafurians. Of course, she would guarantee them that cost isn't a problem, she will just tax the living crap out of the American taxpayers.
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Air lift in a million brand new assult rifles with a basic combat load for each of them and pass them out like candy. Let them kill each other off. Too many people on this rock anyway.
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Originally posted by TwentyFo
I think its important that we realize that we are dealing with real people here. Think about the innocent who have to live through this.
Think about all of those that will die when the U.N. gets through mucking it up.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Think about all of those that will die when the U.N. gets through mucking it up.
To imply that they will muck it up implies that they will actually do something with peace keeping troops.
Do not be fooled. Just like every other time with peace keepers, they will do nothing.
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Lasersailor, the spawn of idiocy, speaks as if he knows anything. He doesn't.
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viking is right, the blue hats will do something, they stand by and watch or surrender.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
To imply that they will muck it up implies that they will actually do something with peace keeping troops.
Do not be fooled. Just like every other time with peace keepers, they will do nothing.
Oh they do plenty.
Ask Dallaire.
They will make a big show and probably cut off communications and support, then leave everybody else`s *** hung out to dry.
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Yeah, they'll do nothing. Just like they did nothing to save your "elite" soldiers from the debacle in Mogadishu. Must be embarrassing that your best army guys needed rescuing by some lowly UN Peacekeepers. Even made the movies. You people couldn't handle a few casualties and the mighty USA withdrew from Somalia. The UN forces stayed.
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Originally posted by Viking
Yeah, they'll do nothing. Just like they did nothing to save your "elite" soldiers from the debacle in Mogadishu. Must be embarrassing that your best army guys needed rescuing by some lowly UN Peacekeepers. Even made the movies. You people couldn't handle a few casualties and the mighty USA withdrew from Somalia. The UN forces stayed.
Well actually we were already pulling out of Somalia at the time of that incident. We didn't pull out any sooner or faster because of it, we pulled out on the already planned schedule.
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Originally posted by Viking
Yeah, they'll do nothing. Just like they did nothing to save your "elite" soldiers from the debacle in Mogadishu. Must be embarrassing that your best army guys needed rescuing by some lowly UN Peacekeepers. Even made the movies. You people couldn't handle a few casualties and the mighty USA withdrew from Somalia. The UN forces stayed.
Your statement doesn't hold water by simply checking how long it took for the "Peacekeepers" to respond.
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How long did it take? Or didn't you check?
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Here, I'll make it easier for you:
October 3-4, 1993 timeline
2:49 PM Two principle targets, Habr Gidr clan leaders, spotted at a residence in central Mogadishu.
3:32 PM The force launches: nineteen aircraft, twelve vehicles and 160 men.
3:42 PM The Assault begins. the boys hit the target house and four Ranger chalks rope in -- one Ranger, Private Todd Blackburn, misses the rope and falls 70 ft. to the street.
3:47 PM Large crowds of Somalis converging on the target area.
3:58 PM One of the vehicles, a five-ton truck, is hit and disabled by a rocket propelled grenade, several men are wounded.
4:00 PM Forces of armed Somalis converging on the target area from all over Mogadishu.
4:02 PM Assault force reports both clan leaders and about 21 others in custody, as the force prepares to pull out, three vehicles are detached to rush the wounded Private Blackburn back to the base.
4:15 PM Fighting and confusion delays loading the prisoners and pulling out. 4:20 PM Black Hawk Super 61 is hit by a rocket propelled grenade and crashes five blocks northeast of the target.
4:22 PM Crowds of Somalis racing toward the crash site.
4:26 PM Prisoners loaded, the convoy and ground forces all begin moving toward the downed chopper. Black Hawk Super Six Four, piloted by Michael Durant, takes the downed chopper's place in orbit over the fight.
4:28 PM Search and rescue team ropes in to assist the downed crew. Both pilot and copilot are dead.
4:35 PM Convoy makes a wrong turn and begins wandering lost through city streets, sustaining heavy casualties.
4:40 PM Durant's Black Hawk, Super Six Four, is hit and crashes about a mile southwest of the target. Hostile crowds begin moving toward it.
4:42 PM Two snipers, Sergeants Randy Shughart and Gary Gordon, are inserted by helicopter to help protect the injured Durant and his crew.
4:54 PM The Lost Convoy, with more than half of its force wounded or dead, abandons its search for the first downed Black Hawk and begins fighting its way back to the base.
5:03 PM A smaller, emergency convoy is dispatched in an attempt to rescue the men stranded at Durant's crash site. It encounters immediate obstacles.
5:34 PM Both convoys, battered and bleeding, link up and abandon the effort to break through to Durant. The remainder of the ground force of Rangers and commandos are converging around the first crash site, sustaining many casualties. Ranger Corporal Jamie Smith is among those shot.
5:40 PM Somali crowds overrun Durant's crash site, killing Shughart, Gordon, and every member of the crew except Durant, who is carried off by militia through the city.
5:45 PM Both convoys return to the base. Ninety-nine men remain trapped and surrounded in the city around the first downed Black Hawk, fighting for their lives. Corporal Smith bleeding heavily, medic requests immediate evacuation.
7:08 PM Black Hawk Super Six makes a daring re-supply run, dropping water, ammo and medical supplies to the trapped force. It is badly damaged, cannot land to evacuate Corporal Smith, limps back to base.
8:27 PM Corporal Smith dies.
10:00 PM Giant convoy, two companies of 10th Mt. Division troops along with the remainder of Task Force Ranger, Pakistani tanks and Malaysian armored vehicles, forms at Mogadishu's New Port, and begins planning the rescue. 11:23 PM The giant rescue convoy moves out, blazing into the city.
1:55 AM Rescue convoy reaches the trapped Ranger force. A second half of the convoy reaches the site of Durant's downed Black Hawk. There is no trace of the crew.
3:00 AM Forces still struggling to remove the pinned body of Cliff Wolcott, pilot of Super Six One.
5:30 AM Wolcott's body is finally recovered. Vehicles roll out of the city. Ranger force is left to run out of the city through gunfire-"The Mogadishu Mile."
6:30 AM The force returns to the Pakistani Stadium. Eighteen dead, 73 injured.
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the way i heard it was the US troops had to commandeer the Pakistani tanks at gun point.
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lol, sure. :lol
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Originally posted by Viking
Yeah, they'll do nothing. Just like they did nothing to save your "elite" soldiers from the debacle in Mogadishu. Must be embarrassing that your best army guys needed rescuing by some lowly UN Peacekeepers. Even made the movies. You people couldn't handle a few casualties and the mighty USA withdrew from Somalia. The UN forces stayed.
The way I heard it, the British had to liberate Norway from the Germans after the Germans spent 5 years enjoying the favors of a number of Norwegian women, and when they were tossed out by the Germans, many new children of mixed German and Norwegian heritage were left behind. Maybe that is the rescue you are thinking of Fritz?
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Hah, that's a real weak dodge Dago. Have you thanked the French lately, for your independence? ;)
The fact that you and others here refuse to acknowledge the efforts of the UN soldiers, even ridicule them when they saved your countrymen from certain death, says a lot about your character. Or rather your lack of character.
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Originally posted by Viking
Hah, that's a real weak dodge Dago. Have you thanked the French lately, for your independence? ;)
The fact that you and others here refuse to acknowledge the efforts of the UN soldiers, even ridicule them when they saved your countrymen from certain death, says a lot about your character. Or rather your lack of character.
All you know about the Somalia situation is what you saw watching a movie. Do some real research for a change, I met guys who were there.
And be realistic about UN troops, they typically don't do crap, almost as irrelevant as the UN itself, and Norway for that matter.
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From Blackhawk Down:
WITH ALL THE DELAYS, it was 11:20 p.m. before they were ready to pull out of the gate. The Pakistani leader sprinted to David's humvee. He said they had been ordered not to lead the convoy. So David worked out a compromise. The tanks would escort for the first few miles, through any ambushes or roadblocks, then pull back and let Alpha Company pull out front in the APCs.
The Mogadishu Mile
Originally they were supposed to take cover by running alongside a convoy of Humvees and armored personnel carriers, however when the convoy outpaced them they were forced to run without support and with very little ammunition.
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BTW, the chances of any country helping settle the situation in Darfur militarily are about the same as France solving the Iranian nuclear confrontation using military force.
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It kills me that the same a**clowns who claim Vietnam, Somalia, and Iraq were "disasters" are the same fools demanding that the US govt "do something!!!!!111one".
The people getting raped and murdered in Africa don't want our presence any more than the ones doing the raping and murdering. Our culture is completely alien to many of them and they simply will not adopt our values. Attempting to help societies that are built around violent struggles over resources by simply attempting to interfere with the violence is never going to work. Temporarily alleviating the resource shortages isn't much better because as soon as we leave, they'll be back fighting.
And look at how South Africa has degraded in the last few years. That place has gone to crap, in spite of all the international attention and assistance. It's a completely different culture and "assistance" is going to be seen as "interference" no matter what we do.
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Originally posted by Toad
BTW, the chances of any country helping settle the situation in Darfur militarily are about the same as France solving the Iranian nuclear confrontation using military force.
As much as we jest about france, I think they may have turned it around.
And Eagle, you are not implying that RACE has something to do with it, are you?
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Originally posted by Dago
All you know about the Somalia situation is what you saw watching a movie. Do some real research for a change, I met guys who were there.
Sure you did laserboy.
Originally posted by Dago
And be realistic about UN troops, they typically don't do crap, almost as irrelevant as the UN itself, and Norway for that matter.
That's because you're ignorant of the truth, but I can't really blame you much for that since most people are ignorant of the UN. Especially in your part of the world. The problem for the UN, is that the successes are by definition quiet. Your military has, to some degree, a similar problem in Iraq. Headlines you will never see include "Ceasefire between Ethiopia and Eritrea Holds for 7th Consecutive Year," "Zero Killed in Cyprus," or "East Timor Still Functioning."
Most people are completely ignorant to just how frequently the UN puts itself between trigger happy combatants around the world: Lebanon, Cyprus, the Golan, Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq, Namibia, Angola, El Salvador, Cambodia, Somalia, Mozambique, Rwanda, Georgia, Liberia, Haiti, Tajikistan, the former Yugoslavia, Guatemala, Sierra Leone, Ethiopia and Eritrea, Cτte d'Ivoire, the Congo, India and Pakistan and East Timor, just in the last 20 years.
Now ... which ones of these do most people associate with the United Nations? The ones where the UN troops failed to prevent disaster: Somalia, Rwanda, and Bosnia. The successes are forgotten.
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Originally posted by Toad
From Blackhawk Down:
WITH ALL THE DELAYS, it was 11:20 p.m. before they were ready to pull out of the gate. The Pakistani leader sprinted to David's humvee. He said they had been ordered not to lead the convoy. So David worked out a compromise. The tanks would escort for the first few miles, through any ambushes or roadblocks, then pull back and let Alpha Company pull out front in the APCs.
If you want to blame someone lay the blame on the right people:
Task Force Ranger, commanded by Major General Garrison, operated independently of the UN contingent. Organized as the Joint[1] Special Operations Task Force (JSOTF), Task Force Ranger reported directly to U. S. Central Command (CENTCOM) rather than Major General Montgomery, Commander United States Forces, Somalia. Although Garrison kept Montgomery well informed, this convoluted Chain of Command critically delayed relief efforts on 3 / 4 October 1993. In addition, for political reasons Secretary of Defense Les Aspin rejected requests by Garrison, Montgomery and then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Colin Powell for armored support.
After a lengthy but understandable delay, given the dual chain of command, a rescue force comprised of two rifle companies from 10th Mountain Division, two Malaysian mechanized companies with Armored Personnel Carriers (APC's), an ad hoc platoon from Task Force Ranger and one Pakistani tank platoon, supported by army and special operations aircraft, was finally able to extract the stranded troops. The infamous "Mogadishu Mile" began at 0542 as the Ranger and Delta Force rear guard trailed out of the city.
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/general/articles/mogadishu.aspx
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sholtz,
You actually had a part of the real problem but it was buried. Here is the secondary problem stated.
"In addition, for political reasons Secretary of Defense Les Aspin rejected requests by Garrison, Montgomery and then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Colin Powell for armored support. "
One of the things that sicks in my mind was stephanopolous quipping to the press about the denied request for armor support was that the military needed to understand that there was a civilian in charge now.
Of course the first problem was the troops being there when we had no identifiable national interest in the region.
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I remember a tard from the Norway area trying to tell me about what a bad bellybutton he was when he deployed with the UN to protect the innocent. Well, this tard, went by the name of gscholz or something like that then told me about a massacre in a village right down the road from where they were. Yeah, real impressive, telling me about how they were there to protect the people, then telling about their miserable failure to do just that.
Very much the ineffective irrelevant force those Norway staffed UN forces, like being protected by OJ Simpson himself. He just convinced me he was useless, the Norwegian forces staffing the UN force were useless just at the UN is useless.
So, why would a fool want to sit in judgement of US forces when he comes from and served with such an uneffective useless force himself?
On an aside, I bet the Ranger force that was in Somalia could take Norway by themselves, while the Somali's stood and faught, that gsholz guy seemed to relate how he cowered behind a vehicle when he got shot at.
Never sit in judgement viking when you haven't been in that situation, you know, one where you actually stood up and faught an overwhelming force and survived.
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there is a reason that most people are ignorant of all the good the UN does...
It is because the UN so rarely blunders into doing good in all the screw ups they do.
lazs
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Originally posted by Dago
I remember a tard from the Norway area trying to tell me about what a bad bellybutton he was when he deployed with the UN to protect the innocent. Well, this tard, went by the name of gscholz or something like that then told me about a massacre in a village right down the road from where they were. Yeah, real impressive, telling me about how they were there to protect the people, then telling about their miserable failure to do just that.
Very much the ineffective irrelevant force those Norway staffed UN forces, like being protected by OJ Simpson himself. He just convinced me he was useless, the Norwegian forces staffing the UN force were useless just at the UN is useless.
So, why would a fool want to sit in judgement of US forces when he comes from and served with such an uneffective useless force himself?
On an aside, I bet the Ranger force that was in Somalia could take Norway by themselves, while the Somali's stood and faught, that gsholz guy seemed to relate how he cowered behind a vehicle when he got shot at.
Never sit in judgement viking when you haven't been in that situation, you know, one where you actually stood up and faught an overwhelming force and survived.
As usual you are full of BS, and your attemts at goading me are pathetic :lol I can't actually find one single thing that you are correct about in your post. Impressive. Gscholz may be banned, but his posts are still around; I dare you to find quotations for your accusations. Of course you won't since you never were much interested in the truth. I especially find your last paragraph ironic seeing how I'm not "sitting in judgment" over the US forces involved; I'm defending the UN forces involved from people like you who sit in judgment on them in this very thread. Have you been in "that situation, you know, one where you actually stood up and fought an overwhelming force and survived"? For that matter, have you been in any combat situation? Didn't think so. Are you going to use your son's merits to bolster your pathetic argument again, like you usually do? :lol
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Originally posted by Viking
As usual you are full of BS, and your attemts at goading me are pathetic :lol I can't actually find one single thing that you are correct about in your post. Impressive. Gscholz may be banned, but his posts are still around; I dare you to find quotations for your accusations. Of course you won't since you never were much interested in the truth. I especially find your last paragraph ironic seeing how I'm not "sitting in judgment" over the US forces involved; I'm defending the UN forces involved from people like you who sit in judgment on them in this very thread. Have you been in "that situation, you know, one where you actually stood up and fought an overwhelming force and survived"? For that matter, have you been in any combat situation? Didn't think so. Are you going to use your son's merits to bolster your pathetic argument again, like you usually do? :lol
Big differance between you and my son, he has really been there and done that, and still is, you are just one pathetic poser jealous of real soldiers.
You have now proven yourself to be a sad liar, and seem to forget your own stories of your failure to do your job protecting the innocent. Cowar in your base while those you are tasked to protect die. Yeah, you're a bad ass, Norway is the one country that makes France look good militarily. Your country folded to Germany faster than damn near any other country, and then had to wait for Britain to bail your tulips out. Deny that why don't you?
Then repeat the story of the village that was massacred on your watch just to impress us with your incredible skill.