Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MajIssue on September 18, 2007, 02:12:38 PM
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How does an offshore mission that has no "dar bar" and is out of site of land get busted?
Spys thats how.
A player having more than one account or a "side switcher" that communicated with squaddies on his (or her) "real" team should not be tolerated as it causes real anger among players that follow norms of ethical behavior and fair play.
During a "busted" mission yesterday I heard several good sticks say that they would not renew their subscriptions because of obvious spying by the Rooks. I was inclined toward the "turn about is fair play" solution of spying on the country that had done so to us, but didn't do it so that I wouldn't compromise my own integrity.
We all need to police ourselves on this and on cheating in general or it will destroy this great game for all of us and drive away large numbers of pilots that make it a great game.
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How do you know there was spying? Maybe someone spotted you taking off, or maybe someone just happened to be flying through the general area? Or maybe someone popped above 200ft whatever the dar-bar level is?
Dont be so quick to accuse.
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Originally posted by MajIssue
Spys thats how.
:O :O :O :O
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All it takes is 1 guy to bust the 500 ft above ground level to give up the "mission" ... and that is usually the case.
If you were "spied" upon ... griefers abound in AH in all sorts of shape and forms.
During a "busted" mission yesterday I heard several good sticks say that they would not renew their subscriptions because of obvious spying by the Rooks.
I doubt that ... also ... define "good stick".
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Originally posted by MajIssue
How does an offshore mission that has no "dar bar" and is out of site of land get busted?
Spys thats how.
A player having more than one account or a "side switcher" that communicated with squaddies on his (or her) "real" team should not be tolerated as it causes real anger among players that follow norms of ethical behavior and fair play.
During a "busted" mission yesterday I heard several good sticks say that they would not renew their subscriptions because of obvious spying by the Rooks. I was inclined toward the "turn about is fair play" solution of spying on the country that had done so to us, but didn't do it so that I wouldn't compromise my own integrity.
We all need to police ourselves on this and on cheating in general or it will destroy this great game for all of us and drive away large numbers of pilots that make it a great game.
Its called... Type your buddies name in the Vox box and tell them. No need to spy. Cross country communacations should not be allowed, period.
Now the 2 acct guy... well not much you can do about him. He pays twice as much as you :D
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Who cares????? Read my sig.
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It was me.....I confess.
I was sitting here with two computers bored out of my mind and started talking to myself.
it occured to me that I could at least productively talk to myself by logging on to Aces High with two accounts and spying.
That way I could tell myself something important, like where the enemy fleet was.
I was confused for a bit though as I couldn't quite explain to myself how it was the enemy since one of me was on that side.
After pondering this for a few minutes, I flipped a coin and decided that one of me would have to be the enemy.
I then tied myself to a chair and tortured myself until I broke and let myself know where the enemy fleet was.
After that it was only a matter of working to get myself untied so I could break up the impending attack by my side against my side.
I hope this helps.
I won't ever do it again.....
I feel so ashamed:cry
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Originally posted by Guppy35
It was me.....I confess.
I feel so ashamed:cry
As you should :D
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1. The mission upped at a secure base far from any cons.
2. It was out of visual range of the shore when busted.
3. There was a friendly CV on the other side of the grid square (In between the main body and shore) also out of visual range of the mission.
4. ALL mission aircraft were below 200 ' MSL and beyond any shore based radar circles.
5. The aircraft that busted the mission flew directly through the CV radar coverage and corrected course toward the mission while beyond visual range TWICE.
AND
6. I personally encountered a pilot that was in the mission list later flying for the country that busted the mission.
My accusations are not baseless and this isn't the first time I've suspected spying. It is only the first time that spying has been so blatent and poorly executed.
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(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/anyonehome.gif)
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Not too many days ago I busted a mission that flew near one of our Cvs. It was flashing and from the tower I could see a lot of dots in the distance. I determined their most likely target and upped from there and waited. Once the field started flashing I had plenty of help.
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Originally posted by MajIssue
1. The mission upped at a secure base far from any cons.
2. It was out of visual range of the shore when busted.
3. There was a friendly CV on the other side of the grid square (In between the main body and shore) also out of visual range of the mission.
4. ALL mission aircraft were below 200 ' MSL and beyond any shore based radar circles.
5. The aircraft that busted the mission flew directly through the CV radar coverage and corrected course toward the mission while beyond visual range TWICE.
AND
6. I personally encountered a pilot that was in the mission list later flying for the country that busted the mission.
My accusations are not baseless and this isn't the first time I've suspected spying. It is only the first time that spying has been so blatent and poorly executed.
And????????? you want what to happen to this individual? That happens all the time when you post missions. If you put it out there don't expect secrecy. Someone sold your mission out. So what??? It happens. Quit whinning about it and move on already.
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Originally posted by MajIssue
1. The mission upped at a secure base far from any cons.
2. It was out of visual range of the shore when busted.
3. There was a friendly CV on the other side of the grid square (In between the main body and shore) also out of visual range of the mission.
4. ALL mission aircraft were below 200 ' MSL and beyond any shore based radar circles.
5. The aircraft that busted the mission flew directly through the CV radar coverage and corrected course toward the mission while beyond visual range TWICE.
AND
6. I personally encountered a pilot that was in the mission list later flying for the country that busted the mission.
My accusations are not baseless and this isn't the first time I've suspected spying. It is only the first time that spying has been so blatent and poorly executed.
So what if someone that was previously in your mission was flying for another country later on? The guy probably got sick and tired of your constant whining and decided to switch.
99.99999999% of the time, it's those in the mission that blow it by popping up too high for a second and showing on 'dar or they stray a little too close to an enemy CV which them makes it blink on the 'dar. Nope, it sounds more like your complete and total incompetence that caused your mission to be blown and not a spy. But your ego won't allow you to realize the truth so you start blaming someone for spying. Sad, so very sad.
(http://simpsonovi.comics.cz/media/Obrazky/WALL/images/PARANOID.JPG)
ack-ack
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Ya, same thing happend to my squad the other night. NOE raid busted..
Makes taking a base deep behind nme lines even more fun when it works..
It can't be stopped, so why try. A quick look at the roster will tell you (often) who the spys are. ({thought balloon erupts above head}humm... 10 so and so's signed on, one of them is a nit, the other 9 are rooks....wonder what that's all about???
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:noid
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(http://drinkingliberally.org/blogs/louisville/archives/BY_92.jpg)
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Originally posted by MajIssue
1. The mission upped at a secure base far from any cons.
2. It was out of visual range of the shore when busted.
3. There was a friendly CV on the other side of the grid square (In between the main body and shore) also out of visual range of the mission.
4. ALL mission aircraft were below 200 ' MSL and beyond any shore based radar circles.
5. The aircraft that busted the mission flew directly through the CV radar coverage and corrected course toward the mission while beyond visual range TWICE.
AND
6. I personally encountered a pilot that was in the mission list later flying for the country that busted the mission.
My accusations are not baseless and this isn't the first time I've suspected spying. It is only the first time that spying has been so blatent and poorly executed.
In my experience, it happens most often when you run an NOE mission more than once with a lot of strangers - after two or three of them, invariably, one or more strangers leave the mission, then come back on the other side to bust it.
I've also met a few people who have admitted to me privately that they run two accounts - mainly to track enemy CVs - as to vector in and bomb them, but they will also bust NOE missions from time to time when they see 'em.
The trick is to never run NOE missions all night long - never do more than 1 or 2 in a row, and keep it to your squad preferably (public NOE missions are dangerous). Also, keep them short range if at all possible, and never hit the same place twice.
Doing NOE missions constantly, over great distances is a recipe for disaster (and great boredom).
So yeah, there is spying and there always will be - luckily, it's not widespread... I've learned to accept that it will happen from time to time (as it did in the war) so I live with it - and institute the above measures to counter it.
Also - you can have fun counter-busting the busters - go NOE with a bunch of 109s then pop (with WEP) as soon as you see a dar bar heading your way - the three or four dweebs coming out to bust you will soon get much more than they bargained for. I also found that cheatin types only cheat because they suck - skilled players don't need to waste their time with that BS to get kills - so when you do counter-bust them, it's great fun slaughtering them.
If you happen to be in a squad that loves capturing unmanned bases via NOE missions, your best bet is to stay out of the Late War arenas and stick to Early/Mid ones where there's less people (since your goal is to fight and capture inanimate objects, it makes no sense to do these missions in the popular arenas). A lot of good players will make fun of you, of course, but I'm of the opinion that people should play the game in whatever way entertains them (to each his own).
Will also finish by saying - 99% of the time you get busted, it was just bad luck - bona fide spies are a lot rarer than most people think.
Shamroc
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Originally posted by Guppy35
It was me.....I confess.
I was sitting here with two computers bored out of my mind and started talking to myself.
it occured to me that I could at least productively talk to myself by logging on to Aces High with two accounts and spying.
That way I could tell myself something important, like where the enemy fleet was.
I was confused for a bit though as I couldn't quite explain to myself how it was the enemy since one of me was on that side.
After pondering this for a few minutes, I flipped a coin and decided that one of me would have to be the enemy.
I then tied myself to a chair and tortured myself until I broke and let myself know where the enemy fleet was.
After that it was only a matter of working to get myself untied so I could break up the impending attack by my side against my side.
I hope this helps.
I won't ever do it again.....
I feel so ashamed:cry
So we should blame you and not masher?
:D :noid
Bronk
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If you would worry more about finding a fight instead of avoiding one, all would be well.
Regards,
Hammer
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Originally posted by MajIssue
How does an offshore mission that has no "dar bar" and is out of site of land get busted?
Spys thats how.
A player having more than one account or a "side switcher" that communicated with squaddies on his (or her) "real" team should not be tolerated as it causes real anger among players that follow norms of ethical behavior and fair play.
During a "busted" mission yesterday I heard several good sticks say that they would not renew their subscriptions because of obvious spying by the Rooks. I was inclined toward the "turn about is fair play" solution of spying on the country that had done so to us, but didn't do it so that I wouldn't compromise my own integrity.
We all need to police ourselves on this and on cheating in general or it will destroy this great game for all of us and drive away large numbers of pilots that make it a great game.
I'll read this post when you post your ingame name. If you hide behind a shade your just as bad as somebody who spies.
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I always happen upon missions. No spies are needed. Usually Im chasing someone and they fly directly to a NOE mission looking for help. CLASSIC!!!
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Originally posted by hammer
If you would worry more about finding a fight instead of avoiding one, all would be well.
Regards,
Hammer
All due respect, I think they were, but in their own way.
Taking "undefended" bases in EW and MW are easy because there isn't anyone available to defend them. Doing it in LW is, to me, a valid tactic.
For some, it's about playing the game as if they were in WWII (armchair generals). Every base, until down, can defend itself. Doing an NOE run to take a rear base isn't running from a fight, it's bringing a fight to an unexpected place. This pulls resources from the front (if you will) to defend that base and keeps the "war effort" moving. I spent all last night killing and dieing attempting to do just that. It was a great time for both sides (I think).
Each can choose to play the game they want to play. If it's furballing that makes you happy then do it. For those who like to win the war, noe runs to move that process along is part of the game. I am not into 20k bomb runs that take over an hour, but that option exists if that's your play style.
Personally, I would like it to be a little more difficult to spy. In RL, which this game appears to be modeled after, spying was hard to get away with. If it were possible to eliminate cross country private communication, I think it would make it a little harder. Of course, those who want to can get around that (teamspeak, cell phones etc), but it would close the easy hole.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
I'll read this post when you post your ingame name. If you hide behind a shade your just as bad as somebody who spies.
That IS his in game name... Here are his stats MAJissue (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/newscores/pilot.php?selectTour=Tour92&playername=MAJissue&action=1)
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There were no spies in WW2...ever. To have them in AH2 is so unrealistic. That's it...I'm quitting.
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Originally posted by Scca
Each can choose to play the game they want to play. If it's furballing that makes you happy then do it. For those who like to win the war, noe runs to move that process along is part of the game. I am not into 20k bomb runs that take over an hour, but that option exists if that's your play style.
I personally love the diverse (let's call it) "Ecosystem" that is the Main Arenas.
Makes for many wonderful possibilities and permutations of death, mayhem and destruction.
Anything can happen, and that's what makes it interesting.
I like playing all aspects of the game, and get bored if I do the same thing over and over again. On a real slow night, I'll ever resupply.
Besides - have none of you ever experienced the carnal pleasure of coming across a flight of obnoxious squeakers doing some proverbial milk run in (let's say) stukas ?
Every now and then, it's satisfying to floss your teeth with milkrunners :t
Shamroc
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Originally posted by Scca
All due respect, I think they were, but in their own way.
Taking "undefended" bases in EW and MW are easy because there isn't anyone available to defend them. Doing it in LW is, to me, a valid tactic.
For some, it's about playing the game as if they were in WWII (armchair generals). Every base, until down, can defend itself. Doing an NOE run to take a rear base isn't running from a fight, it's bringing a fight to an unexpected place. This pulls resources from the front (if you will) to defend that base and keeps the "war effort" moving. I spent all last night killing and dieing attempting to do just that. It was a great time for both sides (I think).
Each can choose to play the game they want to play. If it's furballing that makes you happy then do it. For those who like to win the war, noe runs to move that process along is part of the game. I am not into 20k bomb runs that take over an hour, but that option exists if that's your play style.
Personally, I would like it to be a little more difficult to spy. In RL, which this game appears to be modeled after, spying was hard to get away with. If it were possible to eliminate cross country private communication, I think it would make it a little harder. Of course, those who want to can get around that (teamspeak, cell phones etc), but it would close the easy hole.
Based on your logic then, the 'spies' were just playing the game their way. They were pretending they were the Allies and they'd broken Ultra and the Japanese code.
They can't lose that way :)
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Just because someone moves to another team... doesn't make them a spy.
The 80th generally flies on low number teams. We find fights easier that way.
There are good and bad folks on all the teams out there..... we know this first hand. :aok
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15 minutes of AH life ruined forever!
I want names, addresses and phone numbers so I can put a Jay and Silent Bob on them.
:rolleyes: :furious
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Man up! So you got busted, what did you do then? Just die, because it did not go unopposed? It was inevitable that someone would become aware of the raid. Fight it out! That's the fun part. Who cares if folks switch? I flew Bish at first, then began switching between Bish & Nit depending on who had the lower numbers. As far as spies...little or no consequence to the game.
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Originally posted by MajIssue
During a "busted" mission yesterday I heard several good sticks say that they would not renew their subscriptions because of obvious spying by the Rooks.
yeah right.. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by hammer
If you would worry more about finding a fight instead of avoiding one, all would be well.
Regards,
Hammer
So then, have HTC put the radar all the way down to sea level and remove the "fog of war"..:rolleyes: Can't have any mystery in this game at all, no sir. :huh
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Originally posted by thndregg
So then, have HTC put the radar all the way down to sea level and remove the "fog of war"..:rolleyes: Can't have any mystery in this game at all, no sir. :huh
I think you misunderstood Hammer.
Just a hunch though.
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I know...maybe I did. Apologies. I just think there has to be a good mix of obvious all out fights and a little mystery- as in, "what's setting this base off?"
Concerning spying. I don't accuse anyone of it, as there is no outright proof, and it is too difficult to obtain. But, I do not doubt that it happens.
I see it here as a cheat, on the same scale as if you were to look at your opponent's "Battleship" game board to find all his ships. Online, or on a board, same concept.
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Originally posted by shamroc
Also - you can have fun counter-busting the busters -
Shamroc
Yeah but then what if they have a trace buster buster BUSTER?
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My favorite is when a fairly good sized mission is launched, and a guy that WAS on the mission roster shows up half way to the target in a 262 with some friends as an enemy pilot. I think it's kinda lame, but I really don't care that much.
My second favorite is when two missions intercept each other and everyone starts freaking out saying SPIES SPIES SPIES, when it is just a coincidence. It actually turns out fun when everyone drops ords and dukes it out.
Spying is dumb, but happens all the time. I'm not gonna quit over it.:rolleyes:
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:cry :cry :cry
That pretty much sums up this topic..
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Originally posted by shamroc
The trick is to never run NOE missions all night long - never do more than 1 or 2 in a row, and keep it to your squad preferably (public NOE missions are dangerous). Also, keep them short range if at all possible, and never hit the same place twice.
............................. ............................. ...............
If you happen to be in a squad that loves capturing unmanned bases via NOE missions, your best bet is to stay out of the Late War arenas and stick to Early/Mid ones where there's less people (since your goal is to fight and capture inanimate objects, it makes no sense to do these missions in the popular arenas). A lot of good players will make fun of you, of course, but I'm of the opinion that people should play the game in whatever way entertains them (to each his own).
Shamroc
I couldn't tell you how many succesful GHI noe mission I have been apart of. The key is alternating NOE missions between both enemy countries. NOE bomber missions have been my favorite as of late. Rolling 3 or 4 Lancs/B24's with a 110 and a goon works super well.
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I think capturing/sneaking unmanned air bases in LW arenas are a lot of fun. All it takes to bust a sneak mission is usually 1 person. The thrill of hoping that 1 of the 80+ players on the opposing team doesn't realize that their base is being captured is awesome. Of course, more times than not, 1 of those 80+ players ends up busting the mission.
As for spying, it definitely does exist. The original post in this thread said it all. There is nothing we can do about it.
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Originally posted by Curval
There were no spies in WW2...ever. To have them in AH2 is so unrealistic. That's it...I'm quitting.
:aok
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A properly designed and executed mission will 90 times out of 100 succeed reguardless of spies or not going NOE.
Problem is there are VERY few missions properly designed and/or executed.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
A properly designed and executed mission will 90 times out of 100 succeed reguardless of spies or not going NOE.
Problem is there are VERY few missions properly designed and/or executed.
Ain't that the truth :aok
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The only thing that troubles me here is that this kid is doing nothing during his waking hours but sitting at his PC playing Aces High. I don't like to dig into people's personal lives much, but where the hell are his parents, and why aren't they doing a little spying themselves? Sheesh.
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hi im freezman,
and im a spy:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by evenhaim
hi im freezman,
and im a spy:rolleyes:
A spy wouldn't say he was a spy. unless...that's what you want me to think and you really are a spy and are trying to use reverse phycology on me to make me think you aren't a spy! Therefore keeping your secret identity a secret and can spy even more! Well that won't work on me 'cause I have no brain and never think about anything hard enough to get confused by this. :D
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Ohhhhh noes....spies :huh
HORRIDO!!
:noid
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Originally posted by Latrobe
A spy wouldn't say he was a spy. unless...that's what you want me to think and you really are a spy and are trying to use reverse phycology on me to make me think you aren't a spy! Therefore keeping your secret identity a secret and can spy even more! Well that won't work on me 'cause I have no brain and never think about anything hard enough to get confused by this. :D
:lol
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Originally posted by evenhaim
hi im freezman,
and im a spy:rolleyes:
I just realized you ARE a spy. One time you asked where I was and what plane I was in. I told you, then you shot me down! How did you get that info unless you ARE a spy!!! You must have had some kind of inside source telling you where I was....you evil dirty BA..........wait. Maybe I was spying on myself.
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Originally posted by lagger86
I just realized you ARE a spy. One time you asked where I was and what plane I was in. I told you, then you shot me down! How did you get that info unless you ARE a spy!!! You must have had some kind of inside source telling you where I was....you evil dirty BA..........wait. Maybe I was spying on myself.
:noid
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Originally posted by evenhaim
:noid
:O
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Go into God mode over a base you can see cons from miles away.
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I have spied many times and im pretty proud of it. Whenever rook or bish have hidden the cv somewere i promptly join their side and find it. I then post the location and log off for an hour :)
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Originally posted by Nilsen
I have spied many times and im pretty proud of it. Whenever rook or bish have hidden the cv somewere i promptly join their side and find it. I then post the location and log off for an hour :)
So your the bugger.:rofl
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Yup i am a bugger :D
Hiding cv unless you are REALLY close to winning is on my top 10 stupid list ;)
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To me, it's obvious that an NOE is on the way. First you see the enemy numbers drop at a highly defended base, then you may notice one single con near an undefended friendly base. Then you notice the location of the base to the enemy base, you also look to see where the town is located. Is it quickly accessible or do you have to fly around the base and grab for alt. I've busted many NOEs. In fact I live for it. For instance, last night at 12 there were no defenders and rooks were defending 5 heartily. Then the numbers at 5 dropped. Signal! and an noe took place at 12.
About spies, I could care less, if they want to pay for double accounts let them.
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Originally posted by Getback
About spies, I could care less, if they want to pay for double accounts let them.
Dont need double accounts.
Enter oclub... switch side... report whatever... stay, or return to your original "country" after an hour.
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Sure didn't know that Nilsen. I've been learning quite a bit here lately about this game.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Dont need double accounts.
... stay, or return to your original "country" after an hour.
Convenient. :rolleyes:
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Has to be that conventient to switch sides or else the "need my competitive ride" guys would not switch sides when ENY kicks in.
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Having been here for a good while, gotta say that:
99% of "spy" accusations are completely groundless, with almost all the busted missions happening because the enemy can read a map, or because in a crowded arena somebody ran across the mission by dumb luck.
90% of those screaming about spies don't themselves have enough map interpretation skills to make the kind of logical deductions Getback ilustrated -- so they can't see how anyone else could figure it out either. They also overwhelmingly tend to be...ummm....unseasoned players.
90% of missions "at risk" (publicly announced) are so poorly planned that they're not worth joining in the first place. Anymore, I'll go with a group if I happen to see them upping, and I know they know what they;re doing (A hearty to the AKs, for example).
I'll side switch to find a fight, but (like Guppy) am just looking for fun -- and like Guppy (when his wittyness switch is turned off), I'd consider revealing mission info unsportsmanlike. We play for the game, period -- and if something makes the game less of a game, why do it?
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Originally posted by Bronk
So we should blame you and not masher?
:D :noid
Bronk
Nope..... it;s still Karaya's fault!! :noid
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Intreresting discussion guys... I learned alot. For the record I'm not a noob or a squeaker. Also I would never run from a fight as long as I had ammo or ord. I am troubled by some of the flaws that make it so damn easy to be unsportsmanlike, so I pose the following question:
1. If a WW II Luftwaffe pilot landed his BF109G in England would the RAF let him fly a spit against his former countrymen?
Also Remember the MIG25 pilot that defected to S. Korea with his foxbat? Did he EVER fly a Military aircraf again? (here's a clue... NO)
As for those who said they saw no problem with instant spys/side switchers... Shame on all, that have no honor or loyalty. :p
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Originally posted by MajIssue
As for those who said they saw no problem with instant spys/side switchers... Shame on all, that have no honor or loyalty. :p
True. I have a loyalty to my squad and myselsf. Dont give a damn about my chesspiece or if we win or lose a map :)
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You have to remember, this is a game !!! As there is no real "Rule" against spying, it will never be stopped. As for "honor" when there are those who "must win at all costs" there will be no honor honor amongst them.
Also if you insist on using "real life" information like your comment "Also Remember the MIG25 pilot that defected to S. Korea with his foxbat? Did he EVER fly a Military aircraf again? (here's a clue... NO)" the next time you are shot down and "killed" you'll of course cancel your subscription right? :t
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
You have to remember, this is a game !!! As there is no real "Rule" against spying, it will never be stopped. As for "honor" when there are those who "must win at all costs" there will be no honor honor amongst them.
Also if you insist on using "real life" information like your comment "Also Remember the MIG25 pilot that defected to S. Korea with his foxbat? Did he EVER fly a Military aircraf again? (here's a clue... NO)" the next time you are shot down and "killed" you'll of course cancel your subscription right? :t
...and send reparations to the other two chesspieces! I'm still waiting for shipments...
BTW -- Do you think the Chess symbols are accidents? They're symbols of the fact that this is a contest of skill and wits, and that after a "game" is over you get to start a new one. And yes, gramdmasters play both sides of the table.
Another thought here -- Think about the atmosphere of mutual respect you hear about when vets of WW2 meet up with vets from the opposite side. It amazes me that some guys in here show less respect for their cartoon opponents than those who saw friends die at the hands of the enemy. Sideswitchers have no honor? More like you have no sense of proportion!
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One of my best remembered missions was when my squad went NOE in Corsairs to take another base - only to go head on into a mixed 110/JU88 NOE mission 1/2 way to ours. (Another sim, of course).
Was fun enough to remember years later.
Oh, but more to on topic.... spying sucks.
But whats worse is that implementing "fixes" to "prevent" spying would have no negative impact whatsoever on those intent on spying (since there is no way to prevent a second account from being used) - all they would do is hamper regular users doing usual things.
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Originally posted by Getback
To me, it's obvious that an NOE is on the way. First you see the enemy numbers drop at a highly defended base, then you may notice one single con near an undefended friendly base. Then you notice the location of the base to the enemy base, you also look to see where the town is located. Is it quickly accessible or do you have to fly around the base and grab for alt. I've busted many NOEs. In fact I live for it. For instance, last night at 12 there were no defenders and rooks were defending 5 heartily. Then the numbers at 5 dropped. Signal! and an noe took place at 12.
You have an NOE busting checklist...:rofl
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LOLOL Twentyfo!
I've called NOE attacks so early that Bish actually outnumbered the attacking force and oh the carnage and massacre!
(Bish really respond fast!)
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There are people who are going to spy, it sucks but its part of the game.
As for ''country jumpers"". I admit, I sometimes go on the bish side and few times gone over to the rooks side. My home country is knights yes, but if I get bored there or would like to fight with some bish or rook squads, I will since I am not in a squad myself.
True when I on one country and I noticed where the CVs are, later when I jump back to another country (for example, bish, then back to knights) then I keep the location to myself and let my countrymen find it for themselves.
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Originally posted by Simaril
[BSideswitchers have no honor? More like you have no sense of proportion! [/B]
REALLY?!
Obviously your real world attitude and moral compass are reflected in your comments.
Yes I deplore spys and side switchers as the opportunists or "perk prostitutes" that they are. Loyalty and honor in this game are virtues that reflect the respect that actual avaitors have shown to their wartime adversaries throughout the short history of combat avaition. As a former member of the US Armed Forces, who has seen actual combat, I would be extremly skeptical about the loyalty of a traitor or spy in a real world situation. Perhaps my experiences color my attitudes toward behavior that to me is just plain wrong.
Proportion?
By discussing this issue in an open forum it brings an annoying problem to light and allows possible solutions to that problem to be suggested by other participants.
Looking at "the big picture", I fly Aces High for fun and entertainment. Also because the FAA (and other agencies) might frown on me mounting M2s on a Cessna 182 and waxing the tails of unsuspecting aircraft at my local airport! Let's face it, this game is the closest most of us will ever get to actual combat avaition... so look for me on your six my friend!!!
:D
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Originally posted by Scca
That IS his in game name... Here are his stats MAJissue (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/newscores/pilot.php?selectTour=Tour92&playername=MAJissue&action=1)
Thanks for the props...
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My best NOE mission:
Flying in a group of 15 110's with a goon trailing.
Someones says, "Oh man con on the deck, 12 o'clock"
Someone else, "Damn there's a bunch now."
Someone else, "HAHAHAHA, we've just run into another mission"
Someone else, "Drop tanks away, Engage"
What followed was one of the best 110 vs N1k HO-fest, furballs ever. :lol
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Originally posted by MajIssue
Loyalty and honor in this game are virtues that reflect the respect that actual avaitors have shown to their wartime adversaries throughout the short history of combat avaition.
Maybe in your mind it does ... but there is a majority that look at all of this as a GAME ... nothing more ... nothing less.
Funny thing is that you continue in your post to then brush it all off with ... "Looking at "the big picture", I fly Aces High for fun and entertainment."
So what is it ... serious or fun ?
Also, I switch sides ALL the time ... I am neither an ... opportunist or "perk prostitute". I do have close to 30,000 perks ... so as you can see, I don't use nor need them.
I switch sides to find good fights or to help the weaker team ... simple as that.
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Originally posted by MajIssue
REALLY?!
Obviously your real world attitude and moral compass are reflected in your comments.
Yes I deplore spys and side switchers as the opportunists or "perk prostitutes" that they are. Loyalty and honor in this game are virtues that reflect the respect that actual avaitors have shown to their wartime adversaries throughout the short history of combat avaition. As a former member of the US Armed Forces, who has seen actual combat, I would be extremly skeptical about the loyalty of a traitor or spy in a real world situation. Perhaps my experiences color my attitudes toward behavior that to me is just plain wrong.
:D
To lump everyone who switches side into the "spys and side switchers as the opportunists or "perk prostitutes" that they are." group is about as narrow minded as you can get, then you turn around and point out you fly this game for fun !!!!
I've flown AH for years, the first few I flew as a Bishop, now mostly Rook, but when I'm looking for "fun", it really doesn't matter which side I'm on. Some nights my squadies are either not on, or in an arena thats full, so I'll fly bish and wing with a few guys I use to be in a squad with there, or just hook up with a few friend that fly knight. Maybe Rooks numbers are way off from the one of the other sides, I'll switch to help there.
Am I a spy, I don't think so, I'm just looking for some fun.
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Originally posted by MajIssue
Thanks for the props...
No problem. Your gameid was one I remembered.
I have your B-25 sticker on my PT boat :) When the kill message came up I thought "What a great name.." I wish I had thought up such a good gameid.
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Originally posted by MajIssue
REALLY?!
Obviously your real world attitude and moral compass are reflected in your comments.
Yes I deplore spys and side switchers as the opportunists or "perk prostitutes" that they are. Loyalty and honor in this game are virtues that reflect the respect that actual avaitors have shown to their wartime adversaries throughout the short history of combat avaition. As a former member of the US Armed Forces, who has seen actual combat, I would be extremly skeptical about the loyalty of a traitor or spy in a real world situation. Perhaps my experiences color my attitudes toward behavior that to me is just plain wrong.
Proportion?
By discussing this issue in an open forum it brings an annoying problem to light and allows possible solutions to that problem to be suggested by other participants.
Looking at "the big picture", I fly Aces High for fun and entertainment. Also because the FAA (and other agencies) might frown on me mounting M2s on a Cessna 182 and waxing the tails of unsuspecting aircraft at my local airport! Let's face it, this game is the closest most of us will ever get to actual combat avaition... so look for me on your six my friend!!!
:D
I fund it amusing that a green at the gills newb has the arrogance to question the "moral compass" of anyone at all --
-- and me thinks that if you had any concept of the lives lived by some of the side switchers you've insulted, you'd crawl into a hole from shame.
I took too long to respond to most of your mud slinging, and others have done you in better than I could anyway. So I'll leave most of your drivel alone.
On the off chance that reason can reach you, let me say that your inability to understand what I meant by proportion just proves my point. This is a GAME, like chess. You seem to be saying that if I defeat an opponent playing the white peices, and switch to play the black ones, I am immoral and disloyal. Or maybe a better illustration: If I'm playing pickup football and a couple guys have to leave, is it really immoral or disloyal for me to switch over to the other side in order to keep the game going? After all, if its 6 on one side and 3 on the other, we all know what'd happen -- the ganged side would lose, they'd get tired of playing, and go home. End result -- no game for anyone. And AH is a GAME, played for fun among friends.
The big difference between war and this GAME is what's being fought over. There is absolutely nothing at stake in a game, or a map, of Aces High. Nothing. Zero. Nada. It starts again 30 secs after it ends. Watch endless cycle that for 5 years, and then see if you still think "winning" the contest is more important than the people -- on all sides -- who enjoy the contest for its own sake.
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Sim ... some people can't "see the forest for the trees".
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Sim ... some people can't "see the forest for the trees".
I find myself seriously hoping that I've been had by a troll.
Because otherwise, the idea that arrogant plankton like this guy could self righteously condemn good people -- like, well, say Guppy -- and call them immoral for playing aces the "wrong way" would be simply nauseating.
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Originally posted by Simaril
I fund it amusing that a green at the gills newb has the arrogance to question the "moral compass" of anyone at all --
As far as Perk Prostitutes -- again, you miss the point. I changed from Rook to Knights over a year ago BECAUSE I got tired of flying with the horde. I went to the low side, and I don't think I've gotten reset points more than once in that entire year. I earn far more perks flying outnumbered than the war winners earn through resets. And as you apparently haven't figured it out as yet, those who switch to get on the "winning side" get no perks at all. You have to be on the same country for (?) 6 hours in advance of reset.
Your inability to understand what I meant by proportion just proves my point. This is a GAME, like chess. You seem to be saying that if I defeat an opponent playing the white peices, and switch to play the black ones, I am immoral and disloyal.
Or maybe a better illustration: If I'm playing pickup football and a couple guys have to leave, it's not immoral or disloyal for me to switch over to the other side in order to keep the game going. After all, if its 6 on one side and 3 on the other, we all know what'd happen -- the ganged side would lose, they'd get tired of playing, and go home. End result -- no game for anyone.
Switching sides isn't the issue. Switching sides for the express purpose of spying is gamey, childish and plan poor sportmanship.
If everyone did it, it would change the way the game is played. Why would the game be designed as it is if HTC didn't want you to know where the nme CV was, didn't want you to know where an noe mission is taking place.
If side switching with cross country communication remains as it is, HTC please change the dar so you can see all planes and cv's for all chess peices at all times even outside of radar circles. If that were done, the only reason to switch sides would be to even the teams out as Simaril.
Someone else mentioned there was a "valid" game play reason for cross country communication. I don't know what it would be other than spying.
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Scca --
I got a little torqued because this guy started impugning the moral fiber of those who switch sides, period.
As I've said, transfer of info violates the spirit of the game, and gets a yellow card for unsportsmanlike conduct in my book. Its gamey and lamey. I've not done it, and dont think I ever would.
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Lagg, quit spying on yourself :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Scca
Switching sides for the express purpose of spying is gamey, childish and plan poor sportmanship.
So is hiding the cv.
Dont really care what anyone sais or thinks. If the "enemy" hides a cv somewere safe except when they are close to reset ill spy like a mofo. The whines that follows is an added bonus :) Thats the only time ill spy tho as i really dont care what else the "enemy" is doing (unless they are within visual range in a dogfight ;) )
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Nilsen, CV hiding is stupid and also in bad taste.
I noticed there was a player in either MidWar or Late War, zipcode name or mix or letters who kept saying "when the teams are this out of whack, there are no more rules". He was over at the Bishops broadcasting everything going on to players on the enemy teams.
I dont think alot people were paying attention cause most of us play to get more kills than deaths. Who really cares about chess pieces or taking bases? Maybe that would be a good poll on the forum. Find out how many are really interested in one or the other.
Just my 3 cents
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Originally posted by Nilsen
So is hiding the cv.
Dont really care what anyone sais or thinks. If the "enemy" hides a cv somewere safe except when they are close to reset ill spy like a mofo. The whines that follows is an added bonus :) Thats the only time ill spy tho as i really dont care what else the "enemy" is doing (unless they are within visual range in a dogfight ;) )
(http://www.entertainmentworlds.com/beavisbutthead.bmp)
"He-He....a NORWEGIAN said MOFO!"
"Yeah....He-He."
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
68ROX
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Originally posted by Nilsen
So is hiding the cv.
Dont really care what anyone sais or thinks. If the "enemy" hides a cv somewere safe except when they are close to reset ill spy like a mofo.
(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/7110/electronic20battleship2qz3.jpg)
Good thing you're not sitting across from me.:rolleyes:
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I bet all these guys that say quit whining are Rooks... But I'll only bet a $1 :lol :noid
Most spys are usually folks w/ 2 accts or someone telling a buddy on the other country, which is rediculous if you ask me. I never cange countries. And if your gonna change countries to just report enemy positions to your friends on the other country, your lame. But it's your $15 bucks, so do as you please, right?
Someone said vox between countries should not be allowed. I think I'd agree with that... But texting would have to go as well I guess. Just IMO, <>
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Well I know for a fact there is a sqaud out there who routinely have one of their squaddies on the other side when they are attacking bases. Dropping Vehicle supplies, telling them location of planes incoming etc etc etc..
Its gamey and stinks... however there is no real fix...
I have no problem with those that switch sides it makes no difference to me one way or the other.
Now to those that do it with the express purpose of busting missions etc etc etc is gamey and in poor taste.
Side switching or cross country comms are not the problems it is the attitude of the players that needs adjusting. :aok
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Originally posted by sgt203
Well I know for a fact there is a sqaud out there who routinely have one of their squaddies on the other side when they are attacking bases. Dropping Vehicle supplies, telling them location of planes incoming etc etc etc..
Its gamey and stinks... however there is no real fix...
I have no problem with those that switch sides it makes no difference to me one way or the other.
Now to those that do it with the express purpose of busting missions etc etc etc is gamey and in poor taste.
Side switching or cross country comms are not the problems it is the attitude of the players that needs adjusting. :aok
Well put Sarge :)
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Originally posted by evenhaim
:huh wow, you serious? If so, go to IL2
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Originally posted by bnasty
:huh wow, you serious? If so, go to IL2
hook,line, and sinker:D
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I know when the BKs run squad ops we'll normally spy on other countries. That way we know what bases are lightly defended and give out bad info to the other side. After all, they did it in real life.:aok
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Originally posted by evenhaim
hook,line, and sinker:D
Sorry if you took that the wrong way, I've never flown w/ you so I'm not sure if you were joking... But if you were not joking; That's what a spy tells themselves to make them feel better...
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Originally posted by SuperDud
I know when the BKs run squad ops we'll normally spy on other countries. That way we know what bases are lightly defended and give out bad info to the other side. After all, they did it in real life.:aok
PATHETIC
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Originally posted by bnasty
Sorry if you took that the wrong way, I've never flown w/ you so I'm not sure if you were joking... But if you were not joking; That's what a spy tells themselves to make them feel better...
hehe
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Originally posted by bnasty
PATHETIC
Lighten up, Francis. :rolleyes:
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I'm a Rook and spend more time playing this game than I should. In that time I have never heard anyone report a mission otw over Range, country or squad unless a base starts blinking or a large dar bar appears but no planes are visable in the dar circle. In addition, like many other aware players I have issued ALERTS because of theose reasons or if I see someone keep popping in and out of dar otw to a base. It's usually a sure sign of an N.O.E. mission.
Maybe the majority of the people who posted here are right and your wrong so just get over it. It probably did not happen and if it did, it was yours or your mission planners fault somehow anyway.
Possible solution: Join a good squad that likes working together and you won't have to use the mission planner and ask for help. Then again, I am with a good squad and join missions quite a bit just because i like to help take bases and still have not run into your problem so it's still somehow back to your fault again.
In closing, there probably are a few spies but there are ways to (for the most part) protect yourself when running a squad mission or using the planner.
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There goes the Rooks again... "your to blame, quit whining" How do we know your not a liar :noid :lol j/k
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It has nothing to do with being a ROOK. Choosing which piece or country did not come with a JOIN US IF YOU LIKE TO work together, furball, take bases chat on 200, whine and argue or avoid getting killed.
Every country is made up of many individuals and not one mindset. Some furball more others take more bases and every country has it's share of whiners.
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I'm also a Rook. We never have problems with spies. Sounds like bish and nits need to do a better job of keeping an eye out. Until then the BKs will continue to use our special ops to take bases!
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yep, this is why i furball. that way, I need not concern myself with such nonsense to begin with.....well that and some other things, but this will do for now.
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Originally posted by SuperDud
I'm also a Rook. .....
Note to BNasty:
Note that "rook" rhymes with "hook," and hooks are often baited. A baited hook may be dragged behind a "slow boat" (no offense, Dud) in order to "troll" for fish unwise enough to bite on the "bait".
If an unwise fish realizes there's a hook, he should immediately spt the bait out. It may be embarassing, but its better than continuing to chomp down on the bait and later find yourself hopelessly flopping on the deck.
Next, notice the signature line under SuperDud's post...and think about how many furballers you see who care about spying and base taking. Reread SuperDud's posts. (Hopes for light bulb icon)
Now, if after all that you still have no idea what I'm talking about -- well, enjoy your time on deck.
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That folks actually consider anything in AH that seriously tells me they need to get out a bit more often.
Who cares!?!?!
We need to start the Aces High "I'm not happy unless I'm complaining" forum :aok
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Originally posted by Guppy35
That folks actually consider anything in AH that seriously tells me they need to get out a bit more often.
Who cares!?!?!
We need to start the Aces High "I'm not happy unless I'm complaining" forum :aok
They have that, but they call it the "Aces High General Discussion". They named it like that just to give them one more thing to complain about !
Thanks HTC, always looking out for the subscribers ! :noid
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this is just a test
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Originally posted by Simaril
I fund it amusing that a green at the gills newb has the arrogance to question the "moral compass" of anyone at all --
The big difference between war and this GAME is what's being fought over. There is absolutely nothing at stake in a game, or a map, of Aces High. Nothing. Zero. Nada. It starts again 30 secs after it ends. Watch endless cycle that for 5 years, and then see if you still think "winning" the contest is more important than the people -- on all sides -- who enjoy the contest for its own sake.
Jeez Man LIGHTEN UP!
Have you ever been in WAR? I have. when you write about things that you have no concept of it makes you sound ignorant or worse.
Based on the length and depth of your response(s) my post must have hit pretty close to the mark in your case.
I pay just like you do my friend... so I have as much right as anybody (even you) to post anthing I want on this forum.
I LIKE winning at anything I do, chess, business, Aces High or a freakin' three legged race at a labor day picnic! I don't like to loose! When it seems that there is something unfair happining I rightly thought that this discussion would help me to understand what goes on with the whole spy thing. Communications 101: when you want to get responses, be provocative.
As for your "Green" comment I have flown AH 4 different times with 4 different game IDs, as well as AW and MS Combat FS online. I am also a licenced private pilot. You might say I am a avaition junkie.
So when someone posts an issue that you are so obviously connected to and have such an intimate knowledge about, try to have a little courtesy and dictch the name calling and childish behavior. I makes for a better discussion.
As for the arrogence you accuse me of, my SELF CONFIDENCE is documented and well founded. Also I (unlike yourself apparantly) have a well developed sense of right and wrong.
And finally you disputed me questiong peoples morals etc., If the shoe fits...
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
They have that, but they call it the "Aces High General Discussion". They named it like that just to give them one more thing to complain about !
Thanks HTC, always looking out for the subscribers ! :noid
cc, well said!
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Originally posted by MajIssue
....So when someone posts an issue that you are so obviously connected to and have such an intimate knowledge about, try to have a little courtesy and dictch the name calling and childish behavior. I makes for a better discussion.....
Originally posted by MajIssue
.....Also I (unlike yourself apparantly) have a well developed sense of right and wrong.
And finally you disputed me questiong peoples morals etc., If the shoe fits...
OK, he passes "Lack of Self Awareness 101" :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by MajIssue
....
I LIKE winning at anything I do, chess, business, Aces High or a freakin' three legged race at a labor day picnic! I don't like to loose! When it seems that there is something unfair happining I rightly thought that this discussion would help me to understand what goes on with the whole spy thing. Communications 101: when you want to get responses, be provocative.
...
You couldn't win because you didn't want to fight. You wanted to steal unprotected base, silently, under cover of 500 feet radar limit. It is not a victory, it's theft.
Look on this situation from another point of view. It wasn't spy, it was decent citizen who prevented crime :)
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LOL Vad
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Originally posted by bnasty
PATHETIC
Look evenhaim ... one fish on 2 different hooks ... :O
Don't worry bnasty ... BKs use nothing but the finest stainless steel on our hooks so as to not cause nasty infections after the hook is removed.
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HAHAHAHA
MajIssues has...well, issues.
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Bring escort fighters instead of just 110s?
Noe 110s are food for almost any fighter.
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In all things we make relations from our own point of view. Some in here relate this GAME to REAL LIFE. Others only see a game of no real consiquence.
RL has no bearing on this game other than what we as players choose to empose upon ourselves.
With any game, there are rules for fair play. These rules are designed to move the game along a given line to several possible conclusions. They are rarely if ever designed to "prevent" cheating, while it may provide stiff penalties for doing so.
Honorable play is for games where there is no possible way to know if someone is cheating or not. In this case some call it the honor system. In AH or any mmorpg squads/clans ect are either honorable (which we all hope others consider us honorable) or some other name or title of lesser value.
AH specific, the game provides a venue for play, it also provides some element of security from cheaters (eg hackers, ect). However, the vast sea of un-written rules are often fraught with hidden snares and dangers. Which none, not even those who designed them, can see untill it is far too late.
As it comes to side switching, no one can know for certian why someone switches sides. On the other hand spying is impossible to prevent and nearly impossible to detect if done properly.
Each of us has a "version" of what is fair and honorable play. While many might agree for the most part on either or both, there is no hope that all will ever agree.
My advice is, play as your ethical and moral values dictate and let the others do the same. Complaining publicly or making a public issue of percieved poor game play only drags YOU down to their level and will not ever change it.
My advice is to let HTC handle the real issues of cheating by reporting those issues as you become aware of them.
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Originally posted by MajIssue
Jeez Man LIGHTEN UP!
Have you ever been in WAR? I have. when you write about things that you have no concept of it makes you sound ignorant or worse.
So, I'm confused, what does that, have to do with this:
The big difference between war and this GAME is what's being fought over. There is absolutely nothing at stake in a game, or a map, of Aces High. Nothing. Zero. Nada. It starts again 30 secs after it ends. Watch endless cycle that for 5 years, and then see if you still think "winning" the contest is more important than the people -- on all sides -- who enjoy the contest for its own sake.
Are you contesting what sim said, implying that AH and war are very similar?
P.S nice one Vad.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Look evenhaim ... one fish on 2 different hooks ... :O
Don't worry bnasty ... BKs use nothing but the finest stainless steel on our hooks so as to not cause nasty infections after the hook is removed.
lol slap ;)
superstud where you been all my life?:D
-freezman
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Rooks are spies just like the Patriots coach.
They are spies just like that girl in Indiana Jones And the Last Crusade. You guys remember that hot girl Indiana Jones falls in love with and it turns out she's a Nazi? Think of how betrayed Indiana was...he even tried to save her life, but he couldn't :cry
I feel like the Rook spies are good people. I want to save them from their spyfull ways, but I can't. Every time I reach out my hand, they slip off the invisible walkway.
Man I can't wait for the new Indiana Jones movie.
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my squad switches sides all the time usually to rook or knight rarly to bish
its all about the #ers we go to the least, for the best fights.
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Originally posted by TwentyFo
Rooks are spies just like the Patriots coach.
They are spies just like that girl in Indiana Jones And the Last Crusade. You guys remember that hot girl Indiana Jones falls in love with and it turns out she's a Nazi? Think of how betrayed Indiana was...he even tried to save her life, but he couldn't :cry
I feel like the Rook spies are good people. I want to save them from their spyfull ways, but I can't. Every time I reach out my hand, they slip off the invisible walkway.
Man I can't wait for the new Indiana Jones movie.
LOL!
As for my Pathetic comment Freeze, it was meant as "If you cheat, It's not okay" IMO... That's why we have the BB, to state opinions.
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Originally posted by Simaril
"slow boat" (no offense, Dud)
LMAO, now that part was funny:lol The rest of the post was well composed too. As for where I've been freez..... lurking:noid
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Originally posted by SuperDud
Originally posted by Simaril
"slow boat" (no offense, Dud)
LMAO, now that part was funny:lol The rest of the post was well composed too. As for where I've been freez..... lurking:noid
eww you been haniging with mega havent you ya dork:o
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Originally posted by bnasty
LOL!
As for my Pathetic comment Freeze, it was meant as "If you cheat, It's not okay" IMO... That's why we have the BB, to state opinions.
dont sweat it